Does this white wine from 1983 have the Right Stuff?

January 2, 2015 8:06 AM

Years ago, a friend gave me a bottle of 1983 Vouvray as a wedding gift. The vintner is René Renier; I can't find much about him or the vintage on the internet. It got moved from house to house, and we don't exactly know how it's been stored its entire life (upright in the basement for the last few years, but before that, who knows).

We're having a fancy post-New Years' dinner with family soon, and thinking that'd be a good time to drink it. But I'd like to know more before we crack it open. What are the chances it's still good? Should I instead eBay it and fund my retirement? Who is the mysterious René Renier? Seafood or chicken?

posted by RobotVoodooPower to Food & Drink (20 answers total)

Best answer: Some Vouvray from some vintages is surprisingly age-worthy despite being a relatively light wine made from chenin blanc grapes. 1983 was a good year in the Loire. However, the age-worthy ones tend to be demi-sec or sweet (botrytis-affected) dessert wines. The label should say if this is the case (the label will read either sec, demi-sec, moelleux, or doux). Having stored it upright for several years and moved it around a lot under different conditions, your odds go down significantly. It's a relatively fragile wine.

Other than the sweet varieties, conventionally Vouvray is drunk fairly young.

The fact that you can find nothing about the producer is a bug, not a feature. The top producers are all pretty well known. Best case scenario still would not have this bottle worth that much money even if this is an esteemed small producer and the wine is a more age-worthy demi-sec or doux.

So my advice would be sure, drink it, see if it's amazing, but don't count on it and have a backup ready if it turns out to be corked or over the hill. For a sec Vouvray, I'd say that out beyond 20 years it's just a crapshoot. The very high acid level in Vouvray generally means they drink really well from 5-10 years old, and the best to about 20. There are examples of much older Vouvrays being very highly valued, but it's not a wine most collectors would cellar for the very long haul and you are talking about 31 years here.
posted by spitbull at 8:21 AM on January 2, 2015 [14 favorites]

You might consider getting some younger Vouvray as your backup plan. It will be an interesting lesson in what aging does to a wine.

Conventionally, Vouvray sec is most classically paired with seafood (although chicken and pork would also be standard), so that's my vote. But if it's a sweet style, have it on its own as an aperitif or dessert wine with nuts or soft or veined cheese.
posted by spitbull at 8:25 AM on January 2, 2015

You say it's been upright for the last few years --- the reason this could be a problem is if the cork has dried out: a cork kept moist by constant contact with the wine would provide a far more airtight seal than a cork that has NOT been in contact with the wine. And while air exposure is not the only thing that'll have affected your wine, it's the most obvious. Is the cork dry or crumbly on top?
posted by easily confused at 8:47 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

My personal take: I'd be a bit skittish about experimenting with that when guests are involved, unless they're interested and knowledgeable in wine and will react correctly if it's off. There's a good chance you have a bottle of nail polish there, particularly with the uncertain history of the bottle.

Can't rule out that it might be just fine, it just seems like a lot to ask guests to put up with, potentially, if it's not.
posted by gimonca at 8:49 AM on January 2, 2015

You taste it first. Worst case is it's vinegar, still perfectly safe to try.

Serve a white that old close to room temperature, and immediately upon opening and (I'd suggest) decanting.
posted by spitbull at 9:03 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

And just as encouragement there's a slight chance a 30 year old *sweet* (botrytisized) Vouvray might be fucking ambrosial.
posted by spitbull at 9:08 AM on January 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

Please have a backup wine in place if you do try to experiment (and I suggest you do experiment). Please report the results back.
posted by mmascolino at 9:11 AM on January 2, 2015

Response by poster: Thanks, all. It's just six of us and the plan is to uncork it at a restaurant where a family member works who is a budding sommelier. I like the idea of picking up a young Vouvray for comparison; it'll be educational either way.

FWIW, it's a demi-sec. I'll report the results later.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:36 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ah ok, if it's demi-sec the odds get better that it will be at least drinkable if the cork is relatively intact on extraction.

Good chance of some sediment, which is why I suggest decanting. But your budding sommelier will want to do it right. Here's the Wine Spec's basic decanting guidance, not the last word but a good general overview of the issues.

I myself would be excited to try this wine, frankly, being especially enamored of both Loire wines in general and botrytis dessert wines in particular. There are 1983 demi-secs on the market right now (I googled) at prices between 100 and 400 a bottle, but assuredly with better pedigrees than yours in terms of handling.

Save it for dessert, seriously, with soft cheeses and almonds or marzipan or chocolate. If it's good, that will bring out its best. It will certainly be more wine than you'd want for fish or chicken, in that it is likely to be quite sweet if it is not completely oxidized.

See if you can pair it with a younger demi-sec as your backup, though, and not a dry version.

As you can see I am enjoying imagining the occasion. Some of the most memorable wines I've had in my life have been in the "I wonder if this is still drinkable?" or "I've never seen one of those that old!" category (I spent a few years in the wine business in the 80s and among other things worked for a dealer who appraised and bought cellars, which frequently involved opening samples, and which was an awesome experience except when it was disgusting). I do hope you report back.
posted by spitbull at 10:37 AM on January 2, 2015 [7 favorites]

And I need to correct myself in that it is unlikely a demi-sec involves botrytisized grapes. Just higher residual sugar.
posted by spitbull at 10:50 AM on January 2, 2015

> I'd be a bit skittish about experimenting with that when guests are involved

I agree that it's unlikely to be much good, even if it's still "drinkable" (a term that covers many sins). I would open it for the guests only with the explicit explanation that it's decades old and probably no good but why not try it and see, and for god's sake have another bottle (or three—one bottle for six people??) as backup.
posted by languagehat at 11:17 AM on January 2, 2015

Here's a 1983 Domaine Huey Clos du Bourg Vouvray demi-sec selling at a Paris wine merchant for $103.

All depends on how it's held up.
posted by spitbull at 12:03 PM on January 2, 2015

I've had dry chenin blancs that old that were still fine, and I've had younger ones that were completely shot. But a lot depends on storage conditions, and from what you say I'd say you'd be very lucky if this bottle wasn't cooked at some point along the way.

A demi-sec is sweet enough to notice, but not sweet enough to serve with dessert. If you're into foie gras, it might be a good match. Or with a cheese course as was suggested above.
posted by mr vino at 1:11 PM on January 2, 2015

Occasionally Vouvrays will have some botrytis, but its not part of the AOC the way it is for other sweet wines.

I have a bunch of similarly aged Vouvray in my storage. If its bad its because it was poorly stored or maybe just a bad producer, or an unlucky bottle. But not because 30 years is super old for a demi-sec Vouvray.

And absolutely you can age dry Chenin. Look at some of the classic Savennieres
posted by JPD at 3:24 PM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

also to be a pedant - I'm guessing you've spelt Huet, Huey because you think that's how it is pronounced. I believed the "T" is actually voiced.
posted by JPD at 3:29 PM on January 2, 2015

Yes, Huet, my typo.

As I understand it moelleux is indeed botrytisized under the AOC specs. You have a source?

A very old demi-sec ought to be fairly sweet, in my experience, but I like the foie gras pairing idea too.
posted by spitbull at 5:47 PM on January 2, 2015

Nope - not necessarily although it is characteristic of the best years.

most years the sweet wines are made from passillerage.
The INAO site isn't very useful

but Here is a nice profile of Huet where its clear some years the Moelleaux are made without it.
posted by JPD at 6:59 PM on January 2, 2015

Response by poster: Ok, my report:

We decanted it right after entrees. Cork was pretty degraded and black (burnt?) on top but extracted cleanly with some care. Some sediment, removed during decanting. Medium tan color in the glass. Tasted almost like vinegar :( Could have made a decent shrub.

We had also brought an inexpensive B&G Passeport Vouvray. This was much better received, even by the diehard Chardonnay drinker. Now we have homework, to find a good demi-sec and see what we may have missed.

You win some, you lose some. Thanks again!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:48 PM on January 2, 2015 [6 favorites]

Sorry. If there was one off-dry wine that I would have given a chance, even in those circumstances, it would have been a Vouvray. But just a chance. There's a saying, "There are no great old wines, only great old bottles."
Huët is the premier producer, I think, but they just underwent a major ownership change so the jury is still out on the '12s and 13s. However, there are many excellent producers. Pichot, Pinon, or there's an adjacent appellation, also 100% chenin blanc, called Savennières, though the wines are less immediately friendly. B&G is a big negociant company, producing adequate versions of its appellations, but pretty much any individual producer is going to be better than that.
posted by wnissen at 9:13 AM on January 4, 2015

The ownership change was several years ago. The big change was that Pinguet the wine maker retired early - mostly over the amount of dry wines being made. Dry sells much better and that's what the hwangs wanted.

Foureau and Chidaine are other strong producers.
posted by JPD at 9:17 AM on January 4, 2015