What constitutes "breastaurant decorum?"
January 1, 2015 5:01 PM Subscribe
What kind of behavior do sexually charged food-service businesses expect, and welcome, from their customers?
This might apply to restaurants like Hooters, but I'm really asking about the (even racier) "bikini barista" drive-thru coffee stands common in my area. I've patronized these places before and been greeted by women in outfits ranging from mesh lingerie to painted-on pasties and a thong.
Whenever I go, the girls strike up friendly conversation as they prepare my drink but it's always of the "how is your day going, nice weather we're having" variety. As if this is a Starbucks and everybody's fully clothed. Coffee is obviously secondary to titillation at these places, so it it wrong to acknowledge the sexiness of the situation?
This is an etiquette question, because I can't figure out what the expected behavior for customers is. Can I flirt? Can I talk dirty? Can I touch? (I expect not.) Can I ask to stuff tips in G-strings? How far is too far? Basically I want to enjoy the fantasy I'm paying for as much as possible without offending the girls or coming across as a creep. It's not like there are rules posted, so I'm kind of clueless about where the boundaries are exactly.
This might apply to restaurants like Hooters, but I'm really asking about the (even racier) "bikini barista" drive-thru coffee stands common in my area. I've patronized these places before and been greeted by women in outfits ranging from mesh lingerie to painted-on pasties and a thong.
Whenever I go, the girls strike up friendly conversation as they prepare my drink but it's always of the "how is your day going, nice weather we're having" variety. As if this is a Starbucks and everybody's fully clothed. Coffee is obviously secondary to titillation at these places, so it it wrong to acknowledge the sexiness of the situation?
This is an etiquette question, because I can't figure out what the expected behavior for customers is. Can I flirt? Can I talk dirty? Can I touch? (I expect not.) Can I ask to stuff tips in G-strings? How far is too far? Basically I want to enjoy the fantasy I'm paying for as much as possible without offending the girls or coming across as a creep. It's not like there are rules posted, so I'm kind of clueless about where the boundaries are exactly.
You're supposed to pretend they're not half naked. There is one by my house and any hint of coming on to the girls beyond very casual flirting of the harmless variety will get you banned/ cops called. If you touch them the cops are 100% getting called.
Funnily enough the cops do not respond quite so speedily when I call them :p
posted by fshgrl at 5:17 PM on January 1, 2015 [17 favorites]
Funnily enough the cops do not respond quite so speedily when I call them :p
posted by fshgrl at 5:17 PM on January 1, 2015 [17 favorites]
Presumably, just treating them like human beings and tipping decently will win you a lot of appreciation. I would suggest not flirting unless they get flirty first, and even then I wouldn't read anything into it. Hell, I feel like saying "unless they get flirty first" is probably going too far. Just be polite and respectful. Anything else is...well, they're usually stuck in those shacks all by themselves. One has to assume that they get jackass customers all day long. Why not be one of the pleasant ones?
Also, never, ever take pictures.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:20 PM on January 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Also, never, ever take pictures.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:20 PM on January 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
FWIW customers were not allowed to touch bunnies at the Playboy clubs.
Nthing treating waitstaff with respect.
posted by brujita at 5:35 PM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nthing treating waitstaff with respect.
posted by brujita at 5:35 PM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is an etiquette question, because I can't figure out what the expected behavior for customers is. Can I flirt? Can I talk dirty? Can I touch? (I expect not.) Can I ask to stuff tips in G-strings? How far is too far?
You can do none of those things. Treat them exactly the same as clothed serving staff.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:06 PM on January 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
You can do none of those things. Treat them exactly the same as clothed serving staff.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:06 PM on January 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
Treat them with respect like you'd treat a fully clothed person. Anything less is disrespectful. As scaryblackdeath says, why not be the pleasant customer of the day that they actually enjoy serving?
posted by arcticseal at 6:07 PM on January 1, 2015
posted by arcticseal at 6:07 PM on January 1, 2015
We had a couple of these get busted for prostitution near me so I imagine that touching is a total no go.
posted by bq at 6:27 PM on January 1, 2015
posted by bq at 6:27 PM on January 1, 2015
At Hooters, the whole thing is a joke. The women there are very nice, smart and absolutely do not expect or put up with disrespectful behavior. We all know the outfit is stupid, and of the ladies I know who are or have been Hooters servers generally enjoy the camaraderie of the other servers, and the 90% of the customers who are happily married folks who just like the wings and the friendly service. The 10% of jerks who ogle them, no matter how much they tip, are NOT appreciated.
A woman is wearing a bikini to give you a coffee for the tips. She wishes dudes would tip her if she were dressed in jeans and a t-shirt, but there are guys out there who will tip more for being naked. Being pragmatic, she's doing it for the money.
Honestly, she doesn't want to hear you dirty talk, or date you or flirt with you or be where she is doing what she's doing. She has rent to pay and for her, that's the extent of the transaction. She thinks guys who get overly familiar are creepy because she feels vulnerable. So stare at her like an object and put a $10 in the tip cup and be on your way.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:41 PM on January 1, 2015 [50 favorites]
A woman is wearing a bikini to give you a coffee for the tips. She wishes dudes would tip her if she were dressed in jeans and a t-shirt, but there are guys out there who will tip more for being naked. Being pragmatic, she's doing it for the money.
Honestly, she doesn't want to hear you dirty talk, or date you or flirt with you or be where she is doing what she's doing. She has rent to pay and for her, that's the extent of the transaction. She thinks guys who get overly familiar are creepy because she feels vulnerable. So stare at her like an object and put a $10 in the tip cup and be on your way.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:41 PM on January 1, 2015 [50 favorites]
Basically I want to enjoy the fantasy I'm paying for
You are not paying for a fantasy. You are paying for coffee. Behave as such.
posted by pintapicasso at 6:48 PM on January 1, 2015 [82 favorites]
You are not paying for a fantasy. You are paying for coffee. Behave as such.
posted by pintapicasso at 6:48 PM on January 1, 2015 [82 favorites]
I wrote about working at Hooters when I was 19 a few years ago.
yeah, sure, it was Hooters. we knew it was Hooters when we applied. but on a work day or night we were just trying to do our job, serving food like any other server, with the same stressful, messy, tiring workload, except with an extra side of ogling. as a result, even casual flirting was sigh-inducing. yes, you're very clever, now I've got 9 plates of wings to run. more of the same old shit women have to deal with anyway, except our corporate-dictated short shorts supposedly gave them permission to be even bigger asses. (pun not intended.)
and of course, it wasn't always casual flirting -- every new guy that came in was basically shrodinger's pervert. waiting tables is tiring anyway, but the effort of constantly anticipating when a line might get crossed was exhausting. just the idea of those men wondering what more they could have gotten away with -- touching, even? -- makes me want to reach a dozen years into the past and yank 19-year-old me out of there. ugh. at least I got some dirty-talkers thrown out. like the guy who yelled after me across the restaurant, after I'd asked whether he wanted blue cheese or ranch: "titties and vagina! titties and vagina!"
yeah, maybe that's not how far you'd take it. but how can I, the stressed-out young server, know that?
jobs are jobs and women are humans. please never forget that.
posted by changeling at 7:08 PM on January 1, 2015 [53 favorites]
yeah, sure, it was Hooters. we knew it was Hooters when we applied. but on a work day or night we were just trying to do our job, serving food like any other server, with the same stressful, messy, tiring workload, except with an extra side of ogling. as a result, even casual flirting was sigh-inducing. yes, you're very clever, now I've got 9 plates of wings to run. more of the same old shit women have to deal with anyway, except our corporate-dictated short shorts supposedly gave them permission to be even bigger asses. (pun not intended.)
and of course, it wasn't always casual flirting -- every new guy that came in was basically shrodinger's pervert. waiting tables is tiring anyway, but the effort of constantly anticipating when a line might get crossed was exhausting. just the idea of those men wondering what more they could have gotten away with -- touching, even? -- makes me want to reach a dozen years into the past and yank 19-year-old me out of there. ugh. at least I got some dirty-talkers thrown out. like the guy who yelled after me across the restaurant, after I'd asked whether he wanted blue cheese or ranch: "titties and vagina! titties and vagina!"
yeah, maybe that's not how far you'd take it. but how can I, the stressed-out young server, know that?
jobs are jobs and women are humans. please never forget that.
posted by changeling at 7:08 PM on January 1, 2015 [53 favorites]
You're supposed to pretend they're not half naked. There is one by my house and any hint of coming on to the girls beyond very casual flirting of the harmless variety will get you banned/ cops called. If you touch them the cops are 100% getting called.
This, with the caveat that those boundaries are not set in stone with at least some of the employees. I work tangentially with some guys who love those places, and my impression is that it's a bit like a strip club in that a few of the baristas focus on making a connection with some customers, who then get extra attention (in exchange, one presumes, for much better tips). I've seen them share photos of the baristas in their laps, for example, but I can guarantee that if I pulled up right now and asked that same barista if she wanted to sit in my lap I'd be talking to Officer Friendly before I left the parking lot.
Just like with getting extra attention at the strip club, there's a back and forth process you have to go through first. The guys I know who are into that sort of thing know how to make it pretty clear what they are looking for without crossing the line of getting banned or getting arrested, but in doing so they cross the line of what I consider acceptable behavior all the time. You basically have to be gross a lot of the time, which I'd consider a cost too high, but they'd say the payoff is worth it.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:32 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
This, with the caveat that those boundaries are not set in stone with at least some of the employees. I work tangentially with some guys who love those places, and my impression is that it's a bit like a strip club in that a few of the baristas focus on making a connection with some customers, who then get extra attention (in exchange, one presumes, for much better tips). I've seen them share photos of the baristas in their laps, for example, but I can guarantee that if I pulled up right now and asked that same barista if she wanted to sit in my lap I'd be talking to Officer Friendly before I left the parking lot.
Just like with getting extra attention at the strip club, there's a back and forth process you have to go through first. The guys I know who are into that sort of thing know how to make it pretty clear what they are looking for without crossing the line of getting banned or getting arrested, but in doing so they cross the line of what I consider acceptable behavior all the time. You basically have to be gross a lot of the time, which I'd consider a cost too high, but they'd say the payoff is worth it.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:32 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
the fantasy I'm paying for
The fantasy you're paying for is that these women are so excited to be young and attractive and looked at by you while serving you coffee that they didn't bother to put on much in the way of clothing when they got up that morning. Why even get dressed when a job is this awesome?
This fantasy is included in the price of your coffee plus tip.
Everything else you're considering (besides very light flirting, maybe - which, to be bluntly honest, doesn't sound like something you really know how to do, yet) is crossing the line into inappropriate behavior. So, yes, you treat them like it's a Starbucks and everyone's fully clothed.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:04 PM on January 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
The fantasy you're paying for is that these women are so excited to be young and attractive and looked at by you while serving you coffee that they didn't bother to put on much in the way of clothing when they got up that morning. Why even get dressed when a job is this awesome?
This fantasy is included in the price of your coffee plus tip.
Everything else you're considering (besides very light flirting, maybe - which, to be bluntly honest, doesn't sound like something you really know how to do, yet) is crossing the line into inappropriate behavior. So, yes, you treat them like it's a Starbucks and everyone's fully clothed.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:04 PM on January 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
To paraphrase Archer, "Do you want to be labeled a creep? Because THIS is how you get labeled a creep."
Seriously, take heed to the advice offered above. The service being offered here is a cup of coffee, and that's exactly what you're entitled to.
posted by Alterscape at 8:30 PM on January 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
Seriously, take heed to the advice offered above. The service being offered here is a cup of coffee, and that's exactly what you're entitled to.
posted by Alterscape at 8:30 PM on January 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
According to the Wikipedia entry, women started up a number of these places (very few seem to be chains) and touching is not allowed, but looking seems to go along with the coffee.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:38 PM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 9:38 PM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seriously, if you want to stuff tips in G-strings, go to a strip club. Even there, touching beyond the stuffing tips in a G-string is forbidden (or the touching they do to you during a lap dance).
At these places, look all you like, but treat your server like a server, a human being, and don't touch her. Don't say vile things or anything more than polite flirtiness and enjoy your coffee or wings or whatever. Reciprocate. Follow their lead.
Bottom line: they are not your girlfriend. You are not their boyfriend. Even if they flirt with you, even if they seem happy to see you, they don't want to fuck you. That's not going to happen.
posted by inturnaround at 10:25 PM on January 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
At these places, look all you like, but treat your server like a server, a human being, and don't touch her. Don't say vile things or anything more than polite flirtiness and enjoy your coffee or wings or whatever. Reciprocate. Follow their lead.
Bottom line: they are not your girlfriend. You are not their boyfriend. Even if they flirt with you, even if they seem happy to see you, they don't want to fuck you. That's not going to happen.
posted by inturnaround at 10:25 PM on January 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
I was going to say, bite the bullet and go to a strip club and everyone will be much happier.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:13 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:13 AM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
If flirting were "allowed"/expected/appropriate, the ladies working there would instigate it. Strippers, by contrast, will suddenly appear at your side, touching you, and offering in low, dulcet tones to give you a chair/couch/private dance - you are being invited to flirt, because that builds the customer rapport that leads to sales (tips and a cut of the dance fee). The ladies that work in strip clubs understand this, and so they initiate it, to facilitate the sale.
These women expect you to behave "normally", and are communicating this by acting as though they are ordinary, conservatively-clothed waitresses.
posted by IAmBroom at 6:55 AM on January 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
These women expect you to behave "normally", and are communicating this by acting as though they are ordinary, conservatively-clothed waitresses.
posted by IAmBroom at 6:55 AM on January 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Here's another thing to think about while addressing the complexities of this question:
My wife is a barista. She is constantly at risk of burns from boiling water and hot steam. That's why she wears an apron and closed-toe shoes. One of her colleagues recently burned her foot quite badly because she had neglected to change into water-shedding shoes.
These places you're going to might not be safe for their workers.
posted by Dreadnought at 7:22 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
My wife is a barista. She is constantly at risk of burns from boiling water and hot steam. That's why she wears an apron and closed-toe shoes. One of her colleagues recently burned her foot quite badly because she had neglected to change into water-shedding shoes.
These places you're going to might not be safe for their workers.
posted by Dreadnought at 7:22 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Can I flirt? Can I talk dirty? Can I touch? (I expect not.) Can I ask to stuff tips in G-strings? How far is too far?
'How far is too far?' is not a question that generally enters into customer-service interactions. The fact that you're asking these questions kinda makes me think you might be better off just going to regular coffee places.
Basically I want to enjoy the fantasy I'm paying for as much as possible without offending the girls or coming across as a creep.
Real talk: some of the women that work at those places think that every customer is a creep.
posted by box at 8:25 AM on January 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
'How far is too far?' is not a question that generally enters into customer-service interactions. The fact that you're asking these questions kinda makes me think you might be better off just going to regular coffee places.
Basically I want to enjoy the fantasy I'm paying for as much as possible without offending the girls or coming across as a creep.
Real talk: some of the women that work at those places think that every customer is a creep.
posted by box at 8:25 AM on January 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
I had never seen the themed "bikini barista" places until I moved to the Pacific NW. I've been dragged to half a dozen or so by some guy friends of mine (despite not liking coffee) and I also used to walk by one every day on my way to work. My impression is that they are JUST like Starbucks (or any other coffee place), except you're paying extra for the guarantee of a nearly naked, conventionally attractive server. You are not buying a "fantasy" -- you're buying a coffee and paying to ogle hot women during the course of that transaction. There should be no other expectation than that.
That said, to me the girls always looked bored (from hearing the same tired come-ons all day), exhausted (from feeling they have to maintain the fantasy customers are unfairly projecting on them), and weary from putting up with creeps who think that skimpy clothing (and being a paying customer) is permission to treat them like they're prostitutes or strippers.
I think treating these women with the same respect you would treat any (clothed) barista or customer service professional is the way to go.
posted by stubbehtail at 10:59 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
That said, to me the girls always looked bored (from hearing the same tired come-ons all day), exhausted (from feeling they have to maintain the fantasy customers are unfairly projecting on them), and weary from putting up with creeps who think that skimpy clothing (and being a paying customer) is permission to treat them like they're prostitutes or strippers.
I think treating these women with the same respect you would treat any (clothed) barista or customer service professional is the way to go.
posted by stubbehtail at 10:59 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
As a hopefully non-creepy dude who was dragged to a Hooters by a somewhat creepy friend, I found the experience rather strange. Because I was painfully aware that these were, on average, nice young women who were dressed the way they were dressed, and acting the way they were acting (i.e. somewhat flirty, but nothing over the line) because of a business model, which turned their attire and their projected attitude into something of an 800 lb. gorilla that I was expected to ignore. I mean, if my wife wore something kind of sexy and acted flirty with me while we were on a date, that'd be one kind of signal; the waitress whom I don't know is merely putting on a performance that is somewhat dampened for me by the full realization that nothing about me makes her into it.
So at best, if I pulled everything off successfully and could keep my eyes out of their chest, I could hope to have a normal human interaction like I would at a Starbucks or a normal sort of restaurant where they wear clothes. And perhaps the waitress was appreciative of my efforts, but that's also sort of a zero-sum game because hopefully the waiters and waitresses appreciate me at other places I go where I don't behave like a jerk and I tip decently and they wear clothes.
So if you're asking a question about decorum, that sounds to me like you're afflicted with the same basic sort of empathy that made me decide never to go to a place like that again.
posted by randomkeystrike at 1:07 PM on January 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
So at best, if I pulled everything off successfully and could keep my eyes out of their chest, I could hope to have a normal human interaction like I would at a Starbucks or a normal sort of restaurant where they wear clothes. And perhaps the waitress was appreciative of my efforts, but that's also sort of a zero-sum game because hopefully the waiters and waitresses appreciate me at other places I go where I don't behave like a jerk and I tip decently and they wear clothes.
So if you're asking a question about decorum, that sounds to me like you're afflicted with the same basic sort of empathy that made me decide never to go to a place like that again.
posted by randomkeystrike at 1:07 PM on January 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
oh, gross. Please don't be one of those men who tries to extort more than your share of a transaction just because the provider is in a sexy context. Their job is to serve you coffee and let you ogle them; the deal is that you give them good tips, well above the price of the coffee, because you're getting a bigger value than you'd get at Starbucks. The transaction is that you pay to be allowed to ogle and to have a pretty, scantily glad girl be pleasant to you. If you want other services, go to a business where they are on offer, such as a lingerie show, etc.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:56 PM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:56 PM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
They dress like that so you will patronize their business and give them tips, instead of going to Starbucks down the street. If you want to touch women and objectify them, go to a strip club for goodness sake. You're not "paying for a fantasy" -- I've never heard of a coffee place like this, but I have heard of restaurants like this and you are paying for coffee/food. The price of a coffee isn't enough to let you put your fingers in their g-string. Come on.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:05 PM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:05 PM on January 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
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Everything beyond it sounds like it crosses a line into harassment to me, and think about how each day there might be a few hundred customers and if you had to endure "dirty talk" or touching, that'd be pretty tough.
posted by mathowie at 5:05 PM on January 1, 2015 [18 favorites]