Spanish language disputes (with no hyphen!)
December 18, 2014 6:51 PM   Subscribe

In English, you don't need to be a specialist to argue about Oxford commas, split infinitives, "verbed nouns", etc. ¿What are some examples of similar disputes with respect to the Spanish language?—grammar, vocabulary, or style.

I am somewhat aware of major dialect differences and those are not intended to be the focus of the question. (What I mean by that is: I don't think Americans are advocating that the British start saying "elevator" more often. However, if cross-ocean language politics are inescapable in answering the question, then that's a learning moment too!) Links to Spanish-language stuff are welcome but explanations in English ideal. Thanks.
posted by sylvanshine to Writing & Language (5 answers total) 9 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: I'm more awake this morning, so I'll take this:

In 2010, the Real Academia Española changed several of the spelling rules for the Spanish language. The RAE is kinda like the Oxford Dictionary of Spanish - they are based in Spain. Among the rule changes are some cross-country standardizations (like the name of the letters W and V), along with some changes that have been . . . less popular (changing the name of the Y to "ye" instead of "i greiga", dropping the accent mark on demonstrative pronouns and on the word "solo" and therefore making you rely on context). This has caused quite the debate!

As a Spanish teacher, I personally know that there are regional arguments as to word meanings - and not anything like "elevator" and "lift" either. The textbook I use in class is adamant that "allí" means "there" and "allá" means "way over there" . . . I've never heard this distinction in real life. There is a tiny, marginal note in the instructor edition only explaining that many native speakers use these words interchangeably. Gee, thanks for telling my students!

I can think of a lot more examples as to language change, formerly "incorrect" constructions being accepted, etc. etc. but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for?
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:28 AM on December 19, 2014 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I can think of a lot more examples as to language change, formerly "incorrect" constructions being accepted, etc. etc. but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for?

I am looking for things like that, if you have the time. Thanks for the above.

(My teaching tool also makes a distinction between "allí" and "allá" ("over there") and then says also in small print, "well sometimes"!)
posted by sylvanshine at 11:23 AM on December 19, 2014


Best answer: There's been a lot of discussion lately about sexism in language: the "miembras" debacle, for example, or the perennial assurances that the masculine is neutral and those who use "los ciudadanos y ciudadanas" or "nosotr@s" or even worse yet, "nosotrxs" are feminazis who should just shut up.

Since the RAE has been a bastion of sexism since forever and women's representation in it is pathetic, this is a case of society advancing a funeral at a time.
posted by sukeban at 4:29 AM on December 20, 2014 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Sure thing!

- The use of the indirect object pronouns le and les as direct object pronouns, when the DO is a person.
- The use of 2 imperfect subjunctive or 2 pluperfect tenses in an if clause (this link is Latin, which is where the tendency comes from. The "correct" in Spanish is one past subjunctive, one conditional tense).
- Lack of personal A when the direct object is indefinite (native speakers are all over the map with this).
-The "incorrect" use of una with feminine nouns that begin with A.
- I have heard tell that some native speakers are losing their "subjunctive" sense, but I've never met a person who doesn't still have that firmly implanted.
- Is the word "la presidente" or "la presidenta"?

As noted above, the RAE can say whatever they want about what is "correct", but people don't speak that way, and there is a growing clamor for a more descriptive and less proscriptive grammar from them.
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:21 AM on December 20, 2014


The use of the indirect object pronouns le and les as direct object pronouns, when the DO is a person.

See leísmo. It's popularly associated with people from Madrid.

I have heard tell that some native speakers are losing their "subjunctive" sense, but I've never met a person who doesn't still have that firmly implanted.

It's at least a Basque (and adjoining regions) thing. From the wiki,
Sustitución del imperfecto de subjuntivo por el condicional simple, también llamada condicional vasco ("Si tendría tiempo, iría", en lugar de "Si tuviese/tuviera tiempo, iría). Se da en casi toda Navarra, Álava, Vizcaya, La Rioja, Burgos, Palencia y en algunas partes de Cantabria. En estos casos, el hablante no diferencia entre "hubiera/hubiese" y "habría", pudiendo decir "Si habrías comprado pan, no tendríamos hambre".
Note that these are regarded by some as just regional varieties of Castilian and by others (like the RAE, ehem) as vulgar, uneducated speech.

Is the word "la presidente" or "la presidenta"?

In the case of Esperanza Aguirre, she's "la lideresa".

Nicknames aside, at least words like jueza (vs la juez) seem to be gaining currency too. A few generations ago, abogada, doctora or ingeniera were equally controversial, and the alcaldesa was the town major's wife.
posted by sukeban at 2:18 AM on December 21, 2014


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