Accomodations for dog with dementia?
November 30, 2014 6:56 PM Subscribe
I have a wonderful eleven year old Westie. He's physically very healthy. He was just tested for Cushing's and cancer, both were negative. The only symptom he shows during the day is going out the dog door and then forgetting the dog door is there when he wants in. Bedtime is bad, and the accommodation we've been using failed tonight. Can you help me with ways to get him to bed safely?
Sorry if this is disjointed. Im very upset right now.
We have three dogs, two westies and an elderly black lab. The westies are crate trained. Naptime is no problem. They love sleeping in their "rooms". I ask them, "are you ready for bed?" If they are, they go. If they aren't they just stare at me.
We have a multi-generational household and people who work swing shift. So the house is always running, making not crating them problematic. They aren't allowed upstairs, because they have a bad habit of marking it as their territory.
About eighteen months ago, my old Westie started growling at me a bedtime. I thought it was grumpy old man-itis. A few months ago, when I asked him to go to bed, he jumped up and ran to his brother and started "attacking" him. He didn't bite or scratch him, but ran right up to him and was growling and snarling so badly that is looked and sounded like an attack. He's done this several times since to both dogs.
We were able to stop the attacks by not asking about bedtime. Instead, we just got a piece of cheese out and walked to their rooms. He'd follow and go right in with no problem. Tonight, I got the cheese, and he ran to his brother and attacked him. Again, there was no biting and no injuries.
My parents are elderly and physically not up to handling the dogs when this happens. I'm heartbroken at the thought of having to put my dog to sleep when he's healthy, happy and so loving 99% of the time. But I need to protect my parents and other dogs.
Can you please help me with some ideas on how to get him to bed safely?
Sorry if this is disjointed. Im very upset right now.
We have three dogs, two westies and an elderly black lab. The westies are crate trained. Naptime is no problem. They love sleeping in their "rooms". I ask them, "are you ready for bed?" If they are, they go. If they aren't they just stare at me.
We have a multi-generational household and people who work swing shift. So the house is always running, making not crating them problematic. They aren't allowed upstairs, because they have a bad habit of marking it as their territory.
About eighteen months ago, my old Westie started growling at me a bedtime. I thought it was grumpy old man-itis. A few months ago, when I asked him to go to bed, he jumped up and ran to his brother and started "attacking" him. He didn't bite or scratch him, but ran right up to him and was growling and snarling so badly that is looked and sounded like an attack. He's done this several times since to both dogs.
We were able to stop the attacks by not asking about bedtime. Instead, we just got a piece of cheese out and walked to their rooms. He'd follow and go right in with no problem. Tonight, I got the cheese, and he ran to his brother and attacked him. Again, there was no biting and no injuries.
My parents are elderly and physically not up to handling the dogs when this happens. I'm heartbroken at the thought of having to put my dog to sleep when he's healthy, happy and so loving 99% of the time. But I need to protect my parents and other dogs.
Can you please help me with some ideas on how to get him to bed safely?
This is a long shot, but we just had two nights where my girl dog refused to go to sleep on her bed and instead paced and whined and really made a fuss. It turned out someone had peed on her bed (most likely our other dog) and I couldn't smell it until I got up close.
So I guess I would check the bedding in your westie's crate and make sure it's super-clean.
Other than that, I would run through variations on the bedtime routine to find something that didn't trigger the aggression. Do they go to bed at the same time as you? Could he stay up and go to bed later with someone else? Move his crate to another location? Make sure he doesn't have to walk by any of the other dogs when he's going to bed? Make sure everyone is very peaceful and low energy at bed time?
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:33 PM on November 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
So I guess I would check the bedding in your westie's crate and make sure it's super-clean.
Other than that, I would run through variations on the bedtime routine to find something that didn't trigger the aggression. Do they go to bed at the same time as you? Could he stay up and go to bed later with someone else? Move his crate to another location? Make sure he doesn't have to walk by any of the other dogs when he's going to bed? Make sure everyone is very peaceful and low energy at bed time?
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:33 PM on November 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
Seconding checking his crate for urine and other odors. It might be a territory thing. Also, talk to the vet about anti-anxiety meds for him. I have a friend whose dog went from an anxiety-ridden dog who attacked the other household dogs to a calm, chill, snuggly dog after being medicated with doggy Prozac. There are a bunch of behavioral things in between those options, too.
posted by bedhead at 8:27 PM on November 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by bedhead at 8:27 PM on November 30, 2014 [2 favorites]
Has his thyroid been checked? One of my dogs started the same behaviors and the vet did some blood work, discovered low thyroid, put her on meds and she was back to normal.
posted by moosedogtoo at 9:14 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by moosedogtoo at 9:14 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Maybe I'm not reading this right, but is there a reason why you don't just pick up the dog with dementia, tell him "good boy!," and plop him into his crate yourself when it's bedtime? Lots of petting/cuddling on the way to his crate, cushy clean bedding, and no opportunity to get riled up by anything.
posted by juniperesque at 9:34 PM on November 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by juniperesque at 9:34 PM on November 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: We've been going through this with our older Frenchie girl. Her aggression was increasing, where it got to the point of her attacking our younger male Frenchie sometime 4-6 times an HOUR, completely unprovoked. It started out with loud noises such as putting pots and pans away, then progressing to something as little as a person getting up too fast from a chair that would set her off.
Eventually, she, too, didn't want to go in her crate. Maisy would go in for about ten minutes and then insist on coming out again. The vet thought that it might be stiffness in her joints preventing her from getting comfortable in a smaller space (Maisy usually sleeps on a chair during the day and stretches out). This all started right around when the weather started to get colder, so that didn't help matters, either.
We did ended up putting on anti-inflammatories for about two weeks and it helped tremendously. She's also on 10mg of Prozac daily. Seriously. It's made a world of difference - maybe one fight every couple days or so, still largely attributed to sudden and loud noises. The vet attributes this to Maisy's hearing probably being off and cataracts setting in.
Maybe ask your vet for a trial of Prozac or something similar to see if it might help. I get the generic script for her called into Target and it's $4/month. Good luck to your and your doggie family!
posted by dancinglamb at 1:04 AM on December 1, 2014
Eventually, she, too, didn't want to go in her crate. Maisy would go in for about ten minutes and then insist on coming out again. The vet thought that it might be stiffness in her joints preventing her from getting comfortable in a smaller space (Maisy usually sleeps on a chair during the day and stretches out). This all started right around when the weather started to get colder, so that didn't help matters, either.
We did ended up putting on anti-inflammatories for about two weeks and it helped tremendously. She's also on 10mg of Prozac daily. Seriously. It's made a world of difference - maybe one fight every couple days or so, still largely attributed to sudden and loud noises. The vet attributes this to Maisy's hearing probably being off and cataracts setting in.
Maybe ask your vet for a trial of Prozac or something similar to see if it might help. I get the generic script for her called into Target and it's $4/month. Good luck to your and your doggie family!
posted by dancinglamb at 1:04 AM on December 1, 2014
If it really is dementia, then try getting your hands on some Cholodin. It's a food supplement that helps with the symptoms of dementia in cats and dogs.
The feline version made the last year of our beloved cat Tigger so much more comfortable, both for us and for him. It may also help your dog feel better.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:43 AM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
The feline version made the last year of our beloved cat Tigger so much more comfortable, both for us and for him. It may also help your dog feel better.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:43 AM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I, too, have an 11 year old Westie, Ferguson (well, his birthday is on Dec. 18 and he'll be 11). He has always been sort of grumpy, but happy. He makes his intentions and feelings known, but he's a really sweet boy.
You've gotten some good advice:
1. Ensure his crate is very clean. My Westie hates being dirty (with pee or poop--dirt, sand, mud is fine as he's built for that). Change the towel or blanket every week.
2. Have him evaluated for pain. Little Fergie has developed osteoarthritis, which is to be expected with an elderly dog. If he's overweight, gradually reduce his feeds. He might need Rimadyl/Truprofen, which your vet can prescribe. That will help with the arthritis. If he isn't already on a glucosamine supplement, that might be worthwhile, just as a trial. Also, if he's used to jumping up and down from places, or has to climb stairs, re-evaluate that so that he no longer has to do that. It might be painful for him.
Also, just like in people, there are a number of things that get worse (generally) with age, and if your vet isn't paying attention to those things, see someone else who will properly care for your Westie. Pain from arthritis, teeth problems (extremely painful as a person), hormonal imbalance, and blood sugar issues have shifted to be the main concerns during Fergie's annual exams.
3. We have Fergie on Prozac and it's working well. Like I said, he's always been grumpy, but he's gotten more food-aggressive as he's gotten older. The Prozac is working well to mellow him out without losing the other parts of his personality that we love. You have a Westie, you know what I mean--his feisty nature, his independence. I've also noticed Fergie tends to be a little obsessive about things, and I feel that the Prozac calms him down. It has been really positive.
4. Is any other dog invading his space? My Fergie loves his crate, but doesn't like when anyone else gets in there. Could that be part of the problem? Is it in a noisy spot, or someplace that is scary or not comfortable to him? My dog prefers dark enclosures and will sometimes go sleep in the closet, behind clothes hanging in front of him, over his crate.
5. Has anything else changed since he started the "attacks?" We noticed Fergie's grumpiness started after we got a third dog. He's still not 100% into the third dog, but I have no problem leaving them alone together. And the Prozac has helped.
Good luck--I hope you can figure it out.
posted by FergieBelle at 7:04 AM on December 1, 2014
You've gotten some good advice:
1. Ensure his crate is very clean. My Westie hates being dirty (with pee or poop--dirt, sand, mud is fine as he's built for that). Change the towel or blanket every week.
2. Have him evaluated for pain. Little Fergie has developed osteoarthritis, which is to be expected with an elderly dog. If he's overweight, gradually reduce his feeds. He might need Rimadyl/Truprofen, which your vet can prescribe. That will help with the arthritis. If he isn't already on a glucosamine supplement, that might be worthwhile, just as a trial. Also, if he's used to jumping up and down from places, or has to climb stairs, re-evaluate that so that he no longer has to do that. It might be painful for him.
Also, just like in people, there are a number of things that get worse (generally) with age, and if your vet isn't paying attention to those things, see someone else who will properly care for your Westie. Pain from arthritis, teeth problems (extremely painful as a person), hormonal imbalance, and blood sugar issues have shifted to be the main concerns during Fergie's annual exams.
3. We have Fergie on Prozac and it's working well. Like I said, he's always been grumpy, but he's gotten more food-aggressive as he's gotten older. The Prozac is working well to mellow him out without losing the other parts of his personality that we love. You have a Westie, you know what I mean--his feisty nature, his independence. I've also noticed Fergie tends to be a little obsessive about things, and I feel that the Prozac calms him down. It has been really positive.
4. Is any other dog invading his space? My Fergie loves his crate, but doesn't like when anyone else gets in there. Could that be part of the problem? Is it in a noisy spot, or someplace that is scary or not comfortable to him? My dog prefers dark enclosures and will sometimes go sleep in the closet, behind clothes hanging in front of him, over his crate.
5. Has anything else changed since he started the "attacks?" We noticed Fergie's grumpiness started after we got a third dog. He's still not 100% into the third dog, but I have no problem leaving them alone together. And the Prozac has helped.
Good luck--I hope you can figure it out.
posted by FergieBelle at 7:04 AM on December 1, 2014
Talk to your vet about giving your dog anxiety medication in the evening. A chill out pill could allow you to keep your dog a little longer but, you will need to start making decisions about how and when to let go.
posted by myselfasme at 2:08 PM on December 1, 2014
posted by myselfasme at 2:08 PM on December 1, 2014
Response by poster: Thank you all so much.
I've put some more info below and then a list of your suggestions that we're going to try.
Separating the dogs at bedtime to put him up would be upsetting for them both. They want to be together all the time.
He has had a couple accidents in his crate. So we check his bedding everytime he wakes up. And when he first had the accidents, he'd walk quietly to his bed and then back away and stare at me, very different from his aggression.
We did a full blood workup and everything came back normal. His teeth are also good. And he's a healthy weight.
I used to carry him to bed, but he started baring his teeth and growling and snarling when I picked him up. And my parents put him to bed about half the time and can't pick him up.
------
He does have trouble getting onto chairs now. So we're going to try anti-inflammatories.
I'm going to ask his vet about prozac, cholorin and glucosamine. He has a really good, caring vet. She wanted to see if the cheese at bedtime method worked before putting him on medicine.
I'm going to move their crates closer to where they usually hang out to make a smaller transition.
I carried him to bed with no problem tonight. I'm thinking that switching between the three ways I get him to bed might help. Cheese one night, "are you ready for bed," another and then carrying him sometimes.
Again , thank you.
posted by 1066 at 7:24 PM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
I've put some more info below and then a list of your suggestions that we're going to try.
Separating the dogs at bedtime to put him up would be upsetting for them both. They want to be together all the time.
He has had a couple accidents in his crate. So we check his bedding everytime he wakes up. And when he first had the accidents, he'd walk quietly to his bed and then back away and stare at me, very different from his aggression.
We did a full blood workup and everything came back normal. His teeth are also good. And he's a healthy weight.
I used to carry him to bed, but he started baring his teeth and growling and snarling when I picked him up. And my parents put him to bed about half the time and can't pick him up.
------
He does have trouble getting onto chairs now. So we're going to try anti-inflammatories.
I'm going to ask his vet about prozac, cholorin and glucosamine. He has a really good, caring vet. She wanted to see if the cheese at bedtime method worked before putting him on medicine.
I'm going to move their crates closer to where they usually hang out to make a smaller transition.
I carried him to bed with no problem tonight. I'm thinking that switching between the three ways I get him to bed might help. Cheese one night, "are you ready for bed," another and then carrying him sometimes.
Again , thank you.
posted by 1066 at 7:24 PM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If he still acts aggressive even when the other dogs have been put away, I would ask the vet about the possibilities for medication you could give him an hour or two before bed to help keep him calm. A lot of elderly humans need that because of a dementia phenomenon called 'sundowning'.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 7:22 PM on November 30, 2014