Normal or cause for worry?
November 19, 2014 8:39 AM Subscribe
4-year-old suddenly having accidents at school, fearful, should I worry?
Kid Rabbit will turn 4 in a couple weeks. He was at home with dad until he was about 3.25. Daycare (small mixed-age home daycare, licensed, the teachers all seem good) started this past March and had a rocky start but things eventually settled down (mostly, he has always been a little clingy at drop-off, but he's generally fine).
He potty trained in July and has had zero accidents -- until this week. Monday I got a text that he had an accident, he couldn't get his pants down fast enough and peed on them, and there were some tears because he was afraid daddy would be mad. We talked to him Monday night and told him that we'd never be mad at him for an accident. Then, after dinner when we tried to bathe him, he FLIPPED OUT about water in the tub. He was so afraid of water coming out of the tap, and of the water coming out of the tub. He would not say anything more about it. We eventually just ended up wiping him down and not washing his hair. I tried to talk to him about it at bedtime but he refused to talk about it; when I told him we would eventually need to give him a full bath to wash his hair, he insisted his hair would never need washing because he wouldn't get it dirty.
Yesterday, he had another accident. I didn't get a text about that one, there were just wet clothes at pickup. I tried to talk to him about it last night, asking him why he wasn't making it to the potty on time, and reminded him that if he needed to go potty, he needed to stop what he was doing and go right away (which he has always done before). He said he was afraid of putting his pee in the toilet (it's a normal toilet with water at daycare, he has a little plastic potty at home) because he didn't want it to come out. He said that it came out of the toilet on Monday. I asked him if the toilet overflowed, and he said yes. I said, so you didn't have an accident, the toilet just overflowed? He said yes.
So I talked to one of his teachers about it this morning and he said that a teacher was with him both times (a teacher that has been there the entire time he has, not a new teacher), and there was no toilet malfunction. Drop off was also TERRIBLE this morning. My son cried, and kept telling me he wanted to go home, he didn't want to stay there. Once he said it was because he didn't like Cheerios, and once he said he didn't want to pull his pants down and didn't want the pee to come out. I eventually had to leave him there while he was still crying.
So now I'm kind of flipping out a little, because my mind is suddenly thinking maybe this isn't just a random accident, maybe somebody did something to him. Should I worry that something bad is going on? Or is this just a normal fear that just arises out of little brains sometimes and will pass? Maybe he did just have an accident and he's very embarrassed about it? Maybe another kid said something to him that scared him?
Parents of MeFi, what (if anything) should I do?
Kid Rabbit will turn 4 in a couple weeks. He was at home with dad until he was about 3.25. Daycare (small mixed-age home daycare, licensed, the teachers all seem good) started this past March and had a rocky start but things eventually settled down (mostly, he has always been a little clingy at drop-off, but he's generally fine).
He potty trained in July and has had zero accidents -- until this week. Monday I got a text that he had an accident, he couldn't get his pants down fast enough and peed on them, and there were some tears because he was afraid daddy would be mad. We talked to him Monday night and told him that we'd never be mad at him for an accident. Then, after dinner when we tried to bathe him, he FLIPPED OUT about water in the tub. He was so afraid of water coming out of the tap, and of the water coming out of the tub. He would not say anything more about it. We eventually just ended up wiping him down and not washing his hair. I tried to talk to him about it at bedtime but he refused to talk about it; when I told him we would eventually need to give him a full bath to wash his hair, he insisted his hair would never need washing because he wouldn't get it dirty.
Yesterday, he had another accident. I didn't get a text about that one, there were just wet clothes at pickup. I tried to talk to him about it last night, asking him why he wasn't making it to the potty on time, and reminded him that if he needed to go potty, he needed to stop what he was doing and go right away (which he has always done before). He said he was afraid of putting his pee in the toilet (it's a normal toilet with water at daycare, he has a little plastic potty at home) because he didn't want it to come out. He said that it came out of the toilet on Monday. I asked him if the toilet overflowed, and he said yes. I said, so you didn't have an accident, the toilet just overflowed? He said yes.
So I talked to one of his teachers about it this morning and he said that a teacher was with him both times (a teacher that has been there the entire time he has, not a new teacher), and there was no toilet malfunction. Drop off was also TERRIBLE this morning. My son cried, and kept telling me he wanted to go home, he didn't want to stay there. Once he said it was because he didn't like Cheerios, and once he said he didn't want to pull his pants down and didn't want the pee to come out. I eventually had to leave him there while he was still crying.
So now I'm kind of flipping out a little, because my mind is suddenly thinking maybe this isn't just a random accident, maybe somebody did something to him. Should I worry that something bad is going on? Or is this just a normal fear that just arises out of little brains sometimes and will pass? Maybe he did just have an accident and he's very embarrassed about it? Maybe another kid said something to him that scared him?
Parents of MeFi, what (if anything) should I do?
Best answer: Sounds to me like he got traumatized by something there. When I was little I feared going to the toilet because I thought they'd overflow and drown me because I saw a toilet overflow in a public restroom. Seriously, I was a chump.
I suspect that something happened, and it may have been totally innocuous and not sinister, that freaked your little dude out.
Watch this Mr. Rogers video and then have a calm, quiet talk about plumbing with your son.
You've had a setback, and it happens. Perhaps some pull-ups and an extra set of clothes at school until he's less freaked out.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:44 AM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
I suspect that something happened, and it may have been totally innocuous and not sinister, that freaked your little dude out.
Watch this Mr. Rogers video and then have a calm, quiet talk about plumbing with your son.
You've had a setback, and it happens. Perhaps some pull-ups and an extra set of clothes at school until he's less freaked out.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:44 AM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
My daughter is just about to turn 4. She has been potty training since 18 months. She just had an accident yesterday. Also, I think age 3-4 is really tough. She has flipped out about strange things, too. One day the bath was TORTURE! -- complete and utter meltdown. The next time it was fine. I think, for her, I feel that she is desperate to exert control and she doesn't have much she can control so it comes out in weird and unexpected ways.
She is also a horribly unreliable narrator. Everyday, nearly, she tells me sadly, when I ask, that they didn't play outside at school today. Then I notice the muddy knees on her tights or leaves in her boots and she tells me happily, "Oh I was running when we were outside and fell down!" Or, "We were all seeing how many leaves would fit in our boots!" ?!
It's a seriously rare day that the kids don't go outside because the caregivers would go bonkers if the kids didn't go out to run around.
After months of "accidents" regression at school earlier this year (around 3.25 years) we started a new sticker and reward chart for "dry underpants!" because our talking to her about it was stressing her out (seemingly). We did talk a lot about going potty frequently and always when her teacher suggests it. But, really, she seems to be working it out all on her own.
posted by amanda at 8:48 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
She is also a horribly unreliable narrator. Everyday, nearly, she tells me sadly, when I ask, that they didn't play outside at school today. Then I notice the muddy knees on her tights or leaves in her boots and she tells me happily, "Oh I was running when we were outside and fell down!" Or, "We were all seeing how many leaves would fit in our boots!" ?!
It's a seriously rare day that the kids don't go outside because the caregivers would go bonkers if the kids didn't go out to run around.
After months of "accidents" regression at school earlier this year (around 3.25 years) we started a new sticker and reward chart for "dry underpants!" because our talking to her about it was stressing her out (seemingly). We did talk a lot about going potty frequently and always when her teacher suggests it. But, really, she seems to be working it out all on her own.
posted by amanda at 8:48 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
You might want to consider moving on from the plastic little potty. We installed one of these toilet seats and it was a great transition from little potty to big potty. With a little stool for short legs, it worked out really well. We've actually removed the insert but just kept the rest of the toilet seat there because it was better than the first seat we had.
posted by amanda at 8:52 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by amanda at 8:52 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sorry, all sorts of ideas I have apparently! A friend of mine had her clingy boy child push her or his Dad out the door when it was time for the dropoff. It was all, "Oh no! Time for parents to go! You better push me out of this classroom! No parents allowed!" and he would giggle and push them out the door. We did that a couple times with our daughter and she was somewhat mixed about it. However, sometime around 3.5 we started letting her walk in to her classroom by herself. I think there was something overwhelming about having mom or dad in the space and then leaving. We prepped her for it -- "Today we are going to do something new, I am going to give you a hug and kiss after signing you in and then you will go to the classroom. Do you know where to hang up your coat? Do you know how to ask your teacher if you need any help? You are such a big girl, I'm so proud of you!" For her, it really helped.
posted by amanda at 8:57 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by amanda at 8:57 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
If this is a temporary panic about water, is there space in the bathroom at daycare to let him use a little plastic potty? When my son was 3.5 I taught him to empty and wash the little potty on his own and he was totally able to do it.
You seem to have a sudden fear of water causing accidents, and the accidents are probably making the fear of water more stressful, and hello feedback loop!
So if you could take the pressure off by making peeing more comfortable for him, it might ease things up in general. Of course daycare has to be on board, but it's worth asking.
Of course you should keep a watchful eye, but my gut says it's most likely that something totally innocuous happened and he interpreted it in a way that freaked him out.
I don't think I'd do pull-ups, though. Just plenty of extra clothes.
On preview: We use this toilet seat topper at home. Kid can put it on himself. It's comfortable and secure, and doesn't tend to feel cold. I agree that you should work on a transition at home. Also, have you taught him to pee standing up? He'll need to learn eventually and it might help him feel less intimidated by the toilet.
posted by telepanda at 8:58 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
You seem to have a sudden fear of water causing accidents, and the accidents are probably making the fear of water more stressful, and hello feedback loop!
So if you could take the pressure off by making peeing more comfortable for him, it might ease things up in general. Of course daycare has to be on board, but it's worth asking.
Of course you should keep a watchful eye, but my gut says it's most likely that something totally innocuous happened and he interpreted it in a way that freaked him out.
I don't think I'd do pull-ups, though. Just plenty of extra clothes.
On preview: We use this toilet seat topper at home. Kid can put it on himself. It's comfortable and secure, and doesn't tend to feel cold. I agree that you should work on a transition at home. Also, have you taught him to pee standing up? He'll need to learn eventually and it might help him feel less intimidated by the toilet.
posted by telepanda at 8:58 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: We have tried transitioning him to the normal toilet at home, and he's very resistant.
I just got a text from the school: "Just went to the bathroom and was fine. We talked about the way the water flows down. I did notice him hold the handle when he flushed which does cause the toilet to overflow."
Aha. We have to hold the handle down on our toilet at home or it doesn't flush completely. Of course the little dude is confused. I am feeling very relieved.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:59 AM on November 19, 2014 [34 favorites]
I just got a text from the school: "Just went to the bathroom and was fine. We talked about the way the water flows down. I did notice him hold the handle when he flushed which does cause the toilet to overflow."
Aha. We have to hold the handle down on our toilet at home or it doesn't flush completely. Of course the little dude is confused. I am feeling very relieved.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:59 AM on November 19, 2014 [34 favorites]
We solved the transition to the big toilet by
(1) Offering the toilet seat topper
(2) Allowing him to choose each time if he was going to use the small potty or the toilet
(3) Requiring him to wash the potty bowl on his own if he chose the small potty
(4) Commenting neutrally about how it's faster if you use the big potty because then you don't have to wash the small one.
We didn't make a big deal about it, we just made it kind of inconvenient for him to use the small potty (but not in a mean way! Just in a natural consequences kind of way) and eventually he moved over.
posted by telepanda at 9:11 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
(1) Offering the toilet seat topper
(2) Allowing him to choose each time if he was going to use the small potty or the toilet
(3) Requiring him to wash the potty bowl on his own if he chose the small potty
(4) Commenting neutrally about how it's faster if you use the big potty because then you don't have to wash the small one.
We didn't make a big deal about it, we just made it kind of inconvenient for him to use the small potty (but not in a mean way! Just in a natural consequences kind of way) and eventually he moved over.
posted by telepanda at 9:11 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I loved your update.
I love how something which seemed so scary 5 minutes ago has been so simply understood.
Good luck!
posted by JenThePro at 9:15 AM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
I love how something which seemed so scary 5 minutes ago has been so simply understood.
Good luck!
posted by JenThePro at 9:15 AM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
Great to see your update!
came in to say we also had lots of pee related problems between age 4 and 5. I gather it is normal, and totally agree with previous posts re transition and also stories other children might have told him. For a while our son refused to go at kindergarten because one child claimed a snake had come out the bowl.
One thing I do want to add was that at one point he actually had a bacterial infection in the section of the urinary tract just inside the penis (can't think fo the English name for it right now). Now this actually made peeing very painful, and I had no idea it could happen. But it was cured very quickly once we realised (the tip of the penis was bright red and some tiny bead of pus came out) and took him to the pediatrician. But it was hard to tell at first because before and after there was so much adoo about flushing and getting to the bathroom at the right time that a physical explanation did not occur to me right away.
posted by 15L06 at 9:31 AM on November 19, 2014
came in to say we also had lots of pee related problems between age 4 and 5. I gather it is normal, and totally agree with previous posts re transition and also stories other children might have told him. For a while our son refused to go at kindergarten because one child claimed a snake had come out the bowl.
One thing I do want to add was that at one point he actually had a bacterial infection in the section of the urinary tract just inside the penis (can't think fo the English name for it right now). Now this actually made peeing very painful, and I had no idea it could happen. But it was cured very quickly once we realised (the tip of the penis was bright red and some tiny bead of pus came out) and took him to the pediatrician. But it was hard to tell at first because before and after there was so much adoo about flushing and getting to the bathroom at the right time that a physical explanation did not occur to me right away.
posted by 15L06 at 9:31 AM on November 19, 2014
Response by poster: Thanks for your concern. We'll talk to him tonight about how some toilets work differently than others. Maybe the water just came up to the top but didn't flow over, or not enough for the teachers to notice. Or maybe it did overflow earlier on but they didn't think anything of it and Kid Rabbit remembered and drew his own conclusions.
If he's still freaked out after we talk more about toilets and things don't settle down in the next few days, I will continue to worry, but I don't think there's necessarily inconsistency. The older kids do sometimes go to the bathroom by themselves. And it's conceivable that Kid Rabbit was afraid that daddy would be mad, because daddy is the parent who does sometimes get mad about things.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:10 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
If he's still freaked out after we talk more about toilets and things don't settle down in the next few days, I will continue to worry, but I don't think there's necessarily inconsistency. The older kids do sometimes go to the bathroom by themselves. And it's conceivable that Kid Rabbit was afraid that daddy would be mad, because daddy is the parent who does sometimes get mad about things.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:10 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I was just coming to suggest a "toilet tour", where you go around to places he's familiar and let him flush them while you're standing there to talk about the different ways toilets work.
posted by raisingsand at 10:42 AM on November 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by raisingsand at 10:42 AM on November 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
Now I want to go on a toilet tour.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:29 AM on November 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:29 AM on November 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
Best answer: Our three year-old recently started having accidents again, and I finally thought to ask him if there was something scary about toilets. Yes, he told me, toilets could be "sharp". I thought maybe he'd had a bad dream or something, and I told him, no, toilets aren't sharp, but then I asked him to show me on our own toilet.
Turns out he was afraid of getting his fingers pinched between the seat and the rim -- and for him "sharp" means "dangerous". He must have pinched his fingers one time several weeks earlier, and he didn't tell anybody, just decided to stop pooping when not at home.
The next morning, I took him to each of his teachers and made a big show of asking them to ensure that his fingers were safe when he sat on the toilet. I also temporarily reinstated our M&M rewards that we'd used when potty training. Bingo -- not a single accident since.
So, yeah, it can be hard to get the story sometimes, but there probably is a story there. Good on you for figuring yours out!
posted by wyzewoman at 11:52 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Turns out he was afraid of getting his fingers pinched between the seat and the rim -- and for him "sharp" means "dangerous". He must have pinched his fingers one time several weeks earlier, and he didn't tell anybody, just decided to stop pooping when not at home.
The next morning, I took him to each of his teachers and made a big show of asking them to ensure that his fingers were safe when he sat on the toilet. I also temporarily reinstated our M&M rewards that we'd used when potty training. Bingo -- not a single accident since.
So, yeah, it can be hard to get the story sometimes, but there probably is a story there. Good on you for figuring yours out!
posted by wyzewoman at 11:52 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I love this question because it happens to be World Toilet Day (really- it's a thing!). Toilet Tours for everyone!
posted by PorcineWithMe at 5:12 PM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by PorcineWithMe at 5:12 PM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
I also thought urinary tract infection making it harder to get his pants down in time or slightly taller toilet causing him to get his clothes wet even when he is trying to go in the toilet. Beware the little stools though unless you find one that is sturdy and wide enough not to flip out from under him.
posted by tamitang at 5:18 PM on November 19, 2014
posted by tamitang at 5:18 PM on November 19, 2014
Sigh. Note to self: never, never, never claim on metafilter that a problem has been solved... I say my kid no longer has accidents, so of course he gets the runs in his pants while we're eating dinner out tonight. Oh fun.
Although maybe it was simply the absurd quantity of raisins he ate earlier in the day. I had a feeling that wasn't a good idea...
posted by wyzewoman at 7:01 PM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
Although maybe it was simply the absurd quantity of raisins he ate earlier in the day. I had a feeling that wasn't a good idea...
posted by wyzewoman at 7:01 PM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
But kids often take one step back developmentally before they take two steps forward. Give it another week before you start to worry.
posted by Etrigan at 8:44 AM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]