How do you move on after a really bad fight?
November 6, 2014 2:28 PM Subscribe
My hubby and I had an enormous blowup a few months ago and it's still bothering me. I am seeing a counselor to work through some of the residual feelings and depression that have come in the aftermath of the fight, which is helping a lot. I would like some additional insight from other MeFites about how you have dealt with difficult feelings with a partner after a really bad incident.
In late July, my hubby and I had a co-birthday party (our birthday is one the same day, seriously). Nearly all of the guests were my friends because my hubby didn't invite anyone he knew. I invited one of his friends (Mr. R.) because my hubby has known him a long time and had invited us to his house on several occasions, so it only felt right to ask him to be there for our co-birthday party.
My hubby and I were having lots of family members over the next day, plus we were packing up boxes in anticipation of moving to another city later that week. We had no place to put people for sleepovers, so we agreed to get cabs for anyone who had too much to drink.
Mr. R. arrived, but it was clear that he already had too much to drink. My hubby came to me and asked if Mr. R. could stay the night anyway, in spite of what we'd already agreed. It was a birthday party... we were all having so much fun... so I agreed because hey, if the guy wanted to sleep on the floor and was out by the time our family got there the next day, what could it hurt?
Everyone had a great time, but it was clear that Mr. R. was rubbing people the wrong way all throughout the night. He made misogynistic comments. He acted like a perv. In short, he was being a disgusting freak and I was immediately sorry that I'd extended the invite. (A few days later, a long time friend who was there confessed that Mr. R. made her extremely uncomfortable and that he was single-handedly the creepiest person she had ever met... she has never been the type of person to say something like that in over 16 years that I have known her.)
Anyway, my hubby didn't notice any of the nasty commentary coming from Mr. R. and was really having fun and enjoying his company.
Finally, at the end of the night (having eaten and drunk ourselves silly), only my hubby, Mr. R., my friend of 20 years (Ms. A.), and myself left. We sat outside on the patio talking and hanging out into the wee hours of the morning. That's when Mr. R. started in on the most horrific misogynistic rant I'd ever heard. He was scaring my good friend, as well as myself, and rightly so. My hubby was completely oblivious to the fact that Mr. R.'s comments were offensive. He did not say anything. He just let Mr. R. continue his rant against women and their parts. That is until I finally said something about it. He told me to take my F'ing c*** and F the F off.
At that point, I said, "Okay fine, I think I will". So I went inside and started cleaning up. I was so upset I was shaking. My friend Ms. A. came in and offered her support. I told her I didn't feel comfortable having Mr. R. in our house that night, and she was very understanding about it, of course. She said that she would be happy to have me stay the night at her house.
At this point, it was to 1.) call a cab for Mr. R. or 2.) I was going with Ms. A. to stay at her house. Hubby came in and said, "Hi ladies, how's it going?" I explained that Mr. R. was saying some really offensive things and was bothering us something awful. I told him that I was uncomfortable with having Mr. R. stay at our house and that I thought we should just call a cab for him, or that I could go stay with Ms. A.
That's when he completely lost it and freaked out. I have never seen such a display of rage and fury in my entire life, and I hope I never do again. I am starting to shake just writing this, thinking back on it.
He told me I was a horrible b**** that was just like his ex-wife. He said I talked out of both sides of my mouth and that I was a two-faced b**** just like she was. He said that he lived with a horrible person who pulled sh** like that for 12 years and that he just wasn't going to do it anymore. He yelled and threw things around. He took it out on the dog by ripping the dog out by his collar and tossing him outside in the yard. I was absolutely stunned and completely horrified. The tirade went on and on for about 20-25 minutes. Ms. A. witnessed the entire thing. Mr. R. was throwing up in the bathroom. It was one of the most horrible events I have ever been through. I told my hubby he was drunk and needed to calm down, but that only made it worse. I spoke very calmly in an even tone to him, and didn't raise my voice. The more I tried to explain, the more furious he got.
Hubby finally stomped off to bed, muttering nasty remarks about me the whole time. Mr. R. being the moron that he is actually drove himself home drunk. I am only grateful that the idiot didn't hurt or kill anyone.
My friend was too scared to leave me alone with my hubby, and she stayed with me for another couple of hours or so until I convinced her that my hubby was sleeping it off and that he wasn't going to do anything to hurt me. She probably checked in on me once every few hours over the next few days though.
The next morning, my hubby was still hot mad. He thought I was a horrible person like his ex and that I had no right to pull the rug out on his friend like that. I explained that there were some awful misogynistic things said... wait a minute, he was there and should have heard it... but to this day he still claims that he never heard a word of it. I don't know if I believe that or not.
He sort of (?) came around to understanding why I was so upset and said that if he had heard Mr. R. saying such things, he would have stepped in and said something. He now says that he understands why I was so uncomfortable with having Mr. R. stay over, and that he would never want me to feel uncomfortable staying in my own home.
As much as I am grateful for my hubby expressing these things, he has not truly expressed genuine remorse. What's more is that the dynamic has completely changed in our relationship, and he has these huge blowups on a regular basis (one to two times a week). We never, not once, fought before the birthday party fight. Sometimes he takes it out on me (only verbally, I promise, but I know that's not good either), and he threatens suicide a lot. He is now seeing a therapist, as am I. We are talking about couples counseling after we sort through some of our own individual feelings and issues first.
Is a relationship ever the same after something like this? How do you pick yourself up and move on? Do you ever really trust again? Do things get better with therapy and time? Would you stay after someone you love went into a rage like he did? As you can imagine, my heart and head are pretty much a mess. Any insight you can provide will mean more than I can say.
In late July, my hubby and I had a co-birthday party (our birthday is one the same day, seriously). Nearly all of the guests were my friends because my hubby didn't invite anyone he knew. I invited one of his friends (Mr. R.) because my hubby has known him a long time and had invited us to his house on several occasions, so it only felt right to ask him to be there for our co-birthday party.
My hubby and I were having lots of family members over the next day, plus we were packing up boxes in anticipation of moving to another city later that week. We had no place to put people for sleepovers, so we agreed to get cabs for anyone who had too much to drink.
Mr. R. arrived, but it was clear that he already had too much to drink. My hubby came to me and asked if Mr. R. could stay the night anyway, in spite of what we'd already agreed. It was a birthday party... we were all having so much fun... so I agreed because hey, if the guy wanted to sleep on the floor and was out by the time our family got there the next day, what could it hurt?
Everyone had a great time, but it was clear that Mr. R. was rubbing people the wrong way all throughout the night. He made misogynistic comments. He acted like a perv. In short, he was being a disgusting freak and I was immediately sorry that I'd extended the invite. (A few days later, a long time friend who was there confessed that Mr. R. made her extremely uncomfortable and that he was single-handedly the creepiest person she had ever met... she has never been the type of person to say something like that in over 16 years that I have known her.)
Anyway, my hubby didn't notice any of the nasty commentary coming from Mr. R. and was really having fun and enjoying his company.
Finally, at the end of the night (having eaten and drunk ourselves silly), only my hubby, Mr. R., my friend of 20 years (Ms. A.), and myself left. We sat outside on the patio talking and hanging out into the wee hours of the morning. That's when Mr. R. started in on the most horrific misogynistic rant I'd ever heard. He was scaring my good friend, as well as myself, and rightly so. My hubby was completely oblivious to the fact that Mr. R.'s comments were offensive. He did not say anything. He just let Mr. R. continue his rant against women and their parts. That is until I finally said something about it. He told me to take my F'ing c*** and F the F off.
At that point, I said, "Okay fine, I think I will". So I went inside and started cleaning up. I was so upset I was shaking. My friend Ms. A. came in and offered her support. I told her I didn't feel comfortable having Mr. R. in our house that night, and she was very understanding about it, of course. She said that she would be happy to have me stay the night at her house.
At this point, it was to 1.) call a cab for Mr. R. or 2.) I was going with Ms. A. to stay at her house. Hubby came in and said, "Hi ladies, how's it going?" I explained that Mr. R. was saying some really offensive things and was bothering us something awful. I told him that I was uncomfortable with having Mr. R. stay at our house and that I thought we should just call a cab for him, or that I could go stay with Ms. A.
That's when he completely lost it and freaked out. I have never seen such a display of rage and fury in my entire life, and I hope I never do again. I am starting to shake just writing this, thinking back on it.
He told me I was a horrible b**** that was just like his ex-wife. He said I talked out of both sides of my mouth and that I was a two-faced b**** just like she was. He said that he lived with a horrible person who pulled sh** like that for 12 years and that he just wasn't going to do it anymore. He yelled and threw things around. He took it out on the dog by ripping the dog out by his collar and tossing him outside in the yard. I was absolutely stunned and completely horrified. The tirade went on and on for about 20-25 minutes. Ms. A. witnessed the entire thing. Mr. R. was throwing up in the bathroom. It was one of the most horrible events I have ever been through. I told my hubby he was drunk and needed to calm down, but that only made it worse. I spoke very calmly in an even tone to him, and didn't raise my voice. The more I tried to explain, the more furious he got.
Hubby finally stomped off to bed, muttering nasty remarks about me the whole time. Mr. R. being the moron that he is actually drove himself home drunk. I am only grateful that the idiot didn't hurt or kill anyone.
My friend was too scared to leave me alone with my hubby, and she stayed with me for another couple of hours or so until I convinced her that my hubby was sleeping it off and that he wasn't going to do anything to hurt me. She probably checked in on me once every few hours over the next few days though.
The next morning, my hubby was still hot mad. He thought I was a horrible person like his ex and that I had no right to pull the rug out on his friend like that. I explained that there were some awful misogynistic things said... wait a minute, he was there and should have heard it... but to this day he still claims that he never heard a word of it. I don't know if I believe that or not.
He sort of (?) came around to understanding why I was so upset and said that if he had heard Mr. R. saying such things, he would have stepped in and said something. He now says that he understands why I was so uncomfortable with having Mr. R. stay over, and that he would never want me to feel uncomfortable staying in my own home.
As much as I am grateful for my hubby expressing these things, he has not truly expressed genuine remorse. What's more is that the dynamic has completely changed in our relationship, and he has these huge blowups on a regular basis (one to two times a week). We never, not once, fought before the birthday party fight. Sometimes he takes it out on me (only verbally, I promise, but I know that's not good either), and he threatens suicide a lot. He is now seeing a therapist, as am I. We are talking about couples counseling after we sort through some of our own individual feelings and issues first.
Is a relationship ever the same after something like this? How do you pick yourself up and move on? Do you ever really trust again? Do things get better with therapy and time? Would you stay after someone you love went into a rage like he did? As you can imagine, my heart and head are pretty much a mess. Any insight you can provide will mean more than I can say.
Personally, if my husband spoke to me like that, I would be distraught. But to keep doing it? I'm sorry, I have zero tolerance for verbal abuse. Respect is the only reason marriages work, without that you're on a sinking ship. I'm sure others can give you better advice, but I would leave.
posted by lunastellasol at 2:40 PM on November 6, 2014 [21 favorites]
posted by lunastellasol at 2:40 PM on November 6, 2014 [21 favorites]
In the situation you described above, I am 100 percent sure that my SO would have kicked his friend out of our house and cut him off completely. He then would have apologized to me and my friend, without prompting.
The behavior you describe from your husband is frightening. Your friend being scared to leave you alone with your husband? Holy shit, OP. He is verbally abusive and his behavior is escalating since this happened.
We never, not once, fought before the birthday party fight.
I have a really hard time believing this. If this is true, then there might be something medically wrong with your husband.
Bottom line is, I would not be able to move past this. Maybe therapy is helping you both, but if I were you, I'd be planning my exit strategy.
posted by futureisunwritten at 2:41 PM on November 6, 2014 [47 favorites]
The behavior you describe from your husband is frightening. Your friend being scared to leave you alone with your husband? Holy shit, OP. He is verbally abusive and his behavior is escalating since this happened.
We never, not once, fought before the birthday party fight.
I have a really hard time believing this. If this is true, then there might be something medically wrong with your husband.
Bottom line is, I would not be able to move past this. Maybe therapy is helping you both, but if I were you, I'd be planning my exit strategy.
posted by futureisunwritten at 2:41 PM on November 6, 2014 [47 favorites]
I'm torn between asking you whether you really want to stay with someone who gets that drunk, or with someone who calls you names, or with someone who hurts your dog. Take your pick.
R stands for red herring, right? How misogynist is your "hubby" when you look closely?
posted by Namlit at 2:41 PM on November 6, 2014 [30 favorites]
R stands for red herring, right? How misogynist is your "hubby" when you look closely?
posted by Namlit at 2:41 PM on November 6, 2014 [30 favorites]
There's some significant information missing. How long have you been married? How long did you know him before you got married? How long was he married to his ex-wife? How long have they been divorced? You say that you've never had a fight before the birthday party incident, but from what you say here he went from calm to outraged in the blink of an eye, and all of his outrage seems to be focused on comparing you to his ex-wife... has he ever made comparisons of the two of you before? Has he ever threatened suicide before? Was he in therapy prior to the fight, or has he just recently started? Is he on any medication, and if so, how long has he been on it, and has the dosage recently changed?
posted by palomar at 2:41 PM on November 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by palomar at 2:41 PM on November 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
Shit, I don't know. I read the first half of this entirely ready to tell you that Mr. R. may be a total scumbag and that, yes, your husband should listen seriously to your complaints about him, but at the same time, you have to forgive him some blindness to the faults of his friend.
But then, the blowup you describe is not something you can just shrug off, no matter how drunk he was. And the fact that the blowups are continuing is an even bigger problem.
Can a relationship be saved from a situation like this? Probably. But your husband is going through something profoundly difficult emotionally and cognitively and you have to decide if you are willing to give all that it is going to take to help him through it, if he is even willing to accept your help. And the fact that he gave no clue this was coming is especially troubling.
Priority number one is obviously to make a really objective assessment of whether or not you are in danger. It sounds like you don't think you are, but you don't seem super confident in that assessment. Think really hard about what he might be capable of. Not what your loving husband might be capable of, but what the version of him you see in the darkest moments of his freakouts might be capable of. If you think you might be in danger, get out now.
If it were me, even if I was sure I wasn't in danger, I would probably get out.
I wouldn't necessarily give up on the relationship (depending on how long we had been together and how good it was at its best) but I would, at a minimum, give a warning that one more angry blowup would mean taking a break, a month living apart while he sorted his stuff out with his therapist. And I would start getting my arrangements for where I was going to live for a month ready now, so I would be prepared to pull the trigger immediately next time it happened.
It's going to be very hard to support him through this and there's always the possibility he won't get better. Good luck. And be thankful you don't have kids.
posted by 256 at 2:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
But then, the blowup you describe is not something you can just shrug off, no matter how drunk he was. And the fact that the blowups are continuing is an even bigger problem.
Can a relationship be saved from a situation like this? Probably. But your husband is going through something profoundly difficult emotionally and cognitively and you have to decide if you are willing to give all that it is going to take to help him through it, if he is even willing to accept your help. And the fact that he gave no clue this was coming is especially troubling.
Priority number one is obviously to make a really objective assessment of whether or not you are in danger. It sounds like you don't think you are, but you don't seem super confident in that assessment. Think really hard about what he might be capable of. Not what your loving husband might be capable of, but what the version of him you see in the darkest moments of his freakouts might be capable of. If you think you might be in danger, get out now.
If it were me, even if I was sure I wasn't in danger, I would probably get out.
I wouldn't necessarily give up on the relationship (depending on how long we had been together and how good it was at its best) but I would, at a minimum, give a warning that one more angry blowup would mean taking a break, a month living apart while he sorted his stuff out with his therapist. And I would start getting my arrangements for where I was going to live for a month ready now, so I would be prepared to pull the trigger immediately next time it happened.
It's going to be very hard to support him through this and there's always the possibility he won't get better. Good luck. And be thankful you don't have kids.
posted by 256 at 2:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
How long have you been married?
Your husband needs to come to terms with his anger. He doesn't sound as if he is making very much progress in this regard and there is no guarantee that he ever will. It is possible that he will, but you should not assume that it will magically happen through "trust" and working through things.
posted by leopard at 2:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Your husband needs to come to terms with his anger. He doesn't sound as if he is making very much progress in this regard and there is no guarantee that he ever will. It is possible that he will, but you should not assume that it will magically happen through "trust" and working through things.
posted by leopard at 2:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Oh, and why did he not invite anyone to your joint birthday party? He had one friend there, a friend you had to invite, and who apparently is a terrible person... is this the only person he socializes with, his only friend?
What's triggering the blow-ups that are happening now? Are there any specific issues that seem to be cropping up? What about the threats of suicide -- when is that happening, is there anything that seems to be triggering that in particular?
And finally, what does his therapist say about all this? What does yours say?
posted by palomar at 2:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [9 favorites]
What's triggering the blow-ups that are happening now? Are there any specific issues that seem to be cropping up? What about the threats of suicide -- when is that happening, is there anything that seems to be triggering that in particular?
And finally, what does his therapist say about all this? What does yours say?
posted by palomar at 2:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [9 favorites]
Real justice requires justice for both sides. I don't know what he needs with regards to whatever set him off and his baggage about his ex and all that, but it doesn't sound like you were treated right and it doesn't like he has done anything to really make things right.
Feelings come from somewhere. You can only re-establish trust again after something like this if things are really fixed in some important way. I won't say that never happens, but it seems to not be too common.
If it were me, I would insist he stop drinking as a prerequisite for trying to work things out. My dad drank heavily for years and my mom did not care because he was never a mean drunk and there was always enough money. I have heard a lot of rather silly stories of him saying dumb or insecure things while drunk, but he never lost his shit and took it out on her -- and he was a veteran of two wars, probably suffering PTSD, who slept with his eyes open at times until I was at least 18 years old.
On the other hand, I will say that one of the better periods in my marriage involved a lot of loud arguments. The rest of the time, we mostly didn't communicate enough. So loud arguments alone is not necessarily the end of the world, but your description does not sounds promising for the future of your marriage.
I am so very sorry you are going through this.
posted by Michele in California at 2:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Feelings come from somewhere. You can only re-establish trust again after something like this if things are really fixed in some important way. I won't say that never happens, but it seems to not be too common.
If it were me, I would insist he stop drinking as a prerequisite for trying to work things out. My dad drank heavily for years and my mom did not care because he was never a mean drunk and there was always enough money. I have heard a lot of rather silly stories of him saying dumb or insecure things while drunk, but he never lost his shit and took it out on her -- and he was a veteran of two wars, probably suffering PTSD, who slept with his eyes open at times until I was at least 18 years old.
On the other hand, I will say that one of the better periods in my marriage involved a lot of loud arguments. The rest of the time, we mostly didn't communicate enough. So loud arguments alone is not necessarily the end of the world, but your description does not sounds promising for the future of your marriage.
I am so very sorry you are going through this.
posted by Michele in California at 2:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
He told me I was a horrible b**** that was just like his ex-wife. He said I talked out of both sides of my mouth and that I was a two-faced b**** just like she was. He said that he lived with a horrible person who pulled sh** like that for 12 years and that he just wasn't going to do it anymore. He yelled and threw things around. He took it out on the dog by ripping the dog out by his collar and tossing him outside in the yard.... I explained that there were some awful misogynistic things said... wait a minute, he was there and should have heard it... but to this day he still claims that he never heard a word of it. ... As much as I am grateful for my hubby expressing these things, he has not truly expressed genuine remorse.
Has your husband started new medication recently? Because changes in mood and forgetfulness can be symptoms of those things. If he has not, or there is no other obvious biophysical/medical explanation for these things, I am afraid that you need to be seriously thinking about separation or ending the relationship until he can provide you with serious, like SERIOUS assurances, that he understands what he did and that he will never, ever, ever do it again, or you will walk.
Your description sounds like gaslighting. Animal abuse often goes hand-in-hand with partner abuse. The fact that he is friends with such an incredible misogynist, did not intervene with that misogynist called your husband's wife (you!) a cunt, and by doing so is tacitly agreeing that those are okay things to say, and is then comparing you to a crazy ex.... I am.... I am actually a little concerned for your safety here. I am certainly concerned for your mental health and wellbeing.
palomar has it. How well do you know this person? Unless you have very, very, very good evidence that something else is happening here, something that would make this even slightly understandable (it will never be excusable), you need to be taking real tangible steps to protect yourself and to be ready to leave at a moment's notice. Put your supportive friend on notice that you might need to come stay for a while. This is-- just-- no. This is not an okay thing to do, and I'm afraid it's going to get worse.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:45 PM on November 6, 2014 [40 favorites]
Has your husband started new medication recently? Because changes in mood and forgetfulness can be symptoms of those things. If he has not, or there is no other obvious biophysical/medical explanation for these things, I am afraid that you need to be seriously thinking about separation or ending the relationship until he can provide you with serious, like SERIOUS assurances, that he understands what he did and that he will never, ever, ever do it again, or you will walk.
Your description sounds like gaslighting. Animal abuse often goes hand-in-hand with partner abuse. The fact that he is friends with such an incredible misogynist, did not intervene with that misogynist called your husband's wife (you!) a cunt, and by doing so is tacitly agreeing that those are okay things to say, and is then comparing you to a crazy ex.... I am.... I am actually a little concerned for your safety here. I am certainly concerned for your mental health and wellbeing.
palomar has it. How well do you know this person? Unless you have very, very, very good evidence that something else is happening here, something that would make this even slightly understandable (it will never be excusable), you need to be taking real tangible steps to protect yourself and to be ready to leave at a moment's notice. Put your supportive friend on notice that you might need to come stay for a while. This is-- just-- no. This is not an okay thing to do, and I'm afraid it's going to get worse.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:45 PM on November 6, 2014 [40 favorites]
Best answer: So, Mr R told you to "take your F'ing c*** and F the F off" and your husband didn't do or say anything to defend you?
Woah.
posted by JenThePro at 2:46 PM on November 6, 2014 [67 favorites]
Woah.
posted by JenThePro at 2:46 PM on November 6, 2014 [67 favorites]
Best answer: If your husband is blowing up like this once or twice a week, you can't be expected to just "pick yourself up and move on" or to "really trust again". It sounds like he is verbally abusing you on regular basis so it is to be expected that you can't move on from the initial big fight.
The thing with abuse is that it starts at some time in the relationship after it has been established. In my case, my verbally abusive ex started slowly introducing the abuse about a year into our relationship. It was nearly imperceptible at first. The major, horrible verbal and emotional abuse started in earnest immediately after we got married.
Sounds like the dam broke that night with Mr. R and has been a raging river of abuse ever since. But I'll bet there were trickles of abuse escaping before that time. My advice would be to stop focusing on that one night and instead focus on the pattern as a whole and to recognize that your husband is being abusive in the present. Memail me if you need support.
posted by murrey at 2:46 PM on November 6, 2014 [39 favorites]
The thing with abuse is that it starts at some time in the relationship after it has been established. In my case, my verbally abusive ex started slowly introducing the abuse about a year into our relationship. It was nearly imperceptible at first. The major, horrible verbal and emotional abuse started in earnest immediately after we got married.
Sounds like the dam broke that night with Mr. R and has been a raging river of abuse ever since. But I'll bet there were trickles of abuse escaping before that time. My advice would be to stop focusing on that one night and instead focus on the pattern as a whole and to recognize that your husband is being abusive in the present. Memail me if you need support.
posted by murrey at 2:46 PM on November 6, 2014 [39 favorites]
As much as I am grateful for my hubby expressing these things, he has not truly expressed genuine remorse. What's more is that the dynamic has completely changed in our relationship, and he has these huge blowups on a regular basis (one to two times a week). We never, not once, fought before the birthday party fight. Sometimes he takes it out on me (only verbally, I promise, but I know that's not good either), and he threatens suicide a lot.
This is abusive behavior, full stop, and you should not put up with it another day. Move out if you have to.
posted by empath at 2:47 PM on November 6, 2014 [44 favorites]
Also, abusive behavior usually does not start with physical violence. Instead, it culminates in it. Do a bit of reading. If you can't reverse this real soon, the odds start going up that this is a slippery slope leading to worse.
posted by Michele in California at 2:49 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by Michele in California at 2:49 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
Wow. The fight is terrible, and we could go into the varoius things he should of done (or even ways you might have changed your behavior) but one terrible night should not define a relationship.
However, your husband is suicidal and goes into rages on a biweekly basis? This is a HUGE issue. I'm not sure why you should wait longer on couples counseling but good that you're each in your own.
Anyway, I guess my point is, I'm not sure any analysis of this specific fight is really useful at this point. I mean, what if the people of metafilter all agree he was out of control on that night? This is clearly a much, much, much bigger issue now and I think you'd get more meaningful understanding if you look at this as a bigger issue and not the One Bad Fight that Turned Everything Bad.
I wish you the best, this must be heart-wrenching.
posted by latkes at 2:50 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
However, your husband is suicidal and goes into rages on a biweekly basis? This is a HUGE issue. I'm not sure why you should wait longer on couples counseling but good that you're each in your own.
Anyway, I guess my point is, I'm not sure any analysis of this specific fight is really useful at this point. I mean, what if the people of metafilter all agree he was out of control on that night? This is clearly a much, much, much bigger issue now and I think you'd get more meaningful understanding if you look at this as a bigger issue and not the One Bad Fight that Turned Everything Bad.
I wish you the best, this must be heart-wrenching.
posted by latkes at 2:50 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: More info...
We have been married about a year and a half. We were together for about a year before that. He was married to his ex for 12 years. He initiated the divorce when he met me, although they had already separated years prior to that.
Since I met him, he always made a point of telling me that he was so crazy about me because I was nothing like his ex wife. (Until that night, and that's partly why it was so shocking.)
He was in therapy for issues with his ex long before we met. He just started therapy again a couple of weeks ago.
He never threatened suicide ever before, not even remotely close.
He is on no medication at all.
posted by chatelaine at 2:50 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
We have been married about a year and a half. We were together for about a year before that. He was married to his ex for 12 years. He initiated the divorce when he met me, although they had already separated years prior to that.
Since I met him, he always made a point of telling me that he was so crazy about me because I was nothing like his ex wife. (Until that night, and that's partly why it was so shocking.)
He was in therapy for issues with his ex long before we met. He just started therapy again a couple of weeks ago.
He never threatened suicide ever before, not even remotely close.
He is on no medication at all.
posted by chatelaine at 2:50 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
What's more is that the dynamic has completely changed in our relationship, and he has these huge blowups on a regular basis (one to two times a week). We never, not once, fought before the birthday party fight.
This is troubling enough that you're going to want to rule out physical or mental illness. It's easy for people to read the description of this incident and assume that your husband has just been hiding this side of himself thus far, but such a drastic change could suggest something else is wrong.
It could also suggest that he has just been hiding this side of himself, and once it came out one time it was out for good, but we can't know that from just this post.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:51 PM on November 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
This is troubling enough that you're going to want to rule out physical or mental illness. It's easy for people to read the description of this incident and assume that your husband has just been hiding this side of himself thus far, but such a drastic change could suggest something else is wrong.
It could also suggest that he has just been hiding this side of himself, and once it came out one time it was out for good, but we can't know that from just this post.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:51 PM on November 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
I might also ask myself: are the blow-ups he's having now at all misogynist in nature? Do you see hints that he agrees with his friend about women? Is he blaming you for his blowups still, or does he just have a lot of generalized anger he's hurling around everywhere?
I think a man with an anger issue who doesn't know how to cope-- well, that's a man who might, possibly, be genuinely interested in saving his marriage and learning coping skills. There's no guarantee of that, plenty of people hang on to their anger as it's more precious to them than their relationship, but it's not at heart an unsolvable conflict. A misogynist, though-- you can't work with him. He's not interested in saving the marriage. He's interested in putting you in what he sees as your rightful place (which is, of course, subservient to him), and if you do anything outside of it, he will punish you. There is no marriage to save if he's a misogynist, because marriage implies partnership, and partnership implies equals. If he thinks like his friend does, I'd say there's nothing else you can do.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think a man with an anger issue who doesn't know how to cope-- well, that's a man who might, possibly, be genuinely interested in saving his marriage and learning coping skills. There's no guarantee of that, plenty of people hang on to their anger as it's more precious to them than their relationship, but it's not at heart an unsolvable conflict. A misogynist, though-- you can't work with him. He's not interested in saving the marriage. He's interested in putting you in what he sees as your rightful place (which is, of course, subservient to him), and if you do anything outside of it, he will punish you. There is no marriage to save if he's a misogynist, because marriage implies partnership, and partnership implies equals. If he thinks like his friend does, I'd say there's nothing else you can do.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Is it possible for you to stay somewhere else for a while? What about Miss A, the friend who was with you the night of the party? Can you stay with her, even for just a few days?
Given that your husband is still blowing up at you a couple of times a week, and threatening suicide, and given that you say things were not like this before the fight at the party, I would strongly advise you not to stay in the same home as your husband for the time being. He does not sound like a safe person to be around right now.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
posted by palomar at 2:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
Given that your husband is still blowing up at you a couple of times a week, and threatening suicide, and given that you say things were not like this before the fight at the party, I would strongly advise you not to stay in the same home as your husband for the time being. He does not sound like a safe person to be around right now.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
posted by palomar at 2:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
So, Mr R told you to "take your F'ing c*** and F the F off" and your husband didn't do or say anything to defend you?
This. PLUS it's still going on? This is one giant stinking pile of NOPE. Nothing about this is acceptable. Get out of there.
posted by bleep at 2:53 PM on November 6, 2014 [10 favorites]
This. PLUS it's still going on? This is one giant stinking pile of NOPE. Nothing about this is acceptable. Get out of there.
posted by bleep at 2:53 PM on November 6, 2014 [10 favorites]
Listen carefully:
Move. Out.
(and take the dog with you).
posted by LauraJ at 2:56 PM on November 6, 2014 [41 favorites]
Move. Out.
(and take the dog with you).
posted by LauraJ at 2:56 PM on November 6, 2014 [41 favorites]
Response by poster: I don't mean to threadsit, but I do want to restate that we moved to another city far from home. We don't really know anyone here yet that I could stay with. It certainly adds another layer of difficulty and isolation to the whole thing.
posted by chatelaine at 3:00 PM on November 6, 2014
posted by chatelaine at 3:00 PM on November 6, 2014
I don't mean to threadsit, but I do want to restate that we moved to another city far from home. We don't really know anyone here yet that I could stay with. It certainly adds another layer of difficulty and isolation to the whole thing.
... and adds another layer to his ability to control you and isolate you from your friends. However daunting emotionally or financially, you need to leave, and go back to where you have friends and family. Please.
posted by LauraJ at 3:02 PM on November 6, 2014 [69 favorites]
... and adds another layer to his ability to control you and isolate you from your friends. However daunting emotionally or financially, you need to leave, and go back to where you have friends and family. Please.
posted by LauraJ at 3:02 PM on November 6, 2014 [69 favorites]
I couldn't forgive him. Not for not standing up for me in front of his friend, not for saying those awful things and certainly not for continuing to be this abusive on a regular basis.
Why do you think it's okay for him to abuse you just because he's married to you.
For sure you should be in couples therapy, and you need your own therapist. Right now, you need to lay a foundation for how you want to be treated. With respect, dignity and consideration. Your husband exhibits NONE of this.
If your husband ever tries to engage you in this kind of argument again, simply get up, grab on overnight bag you have packed, and leave. You can say to him, "I deserve to be spoken to respectfully and kindly. I won't discuss anything with you until you can speak to me calmly and rationally. I am not your punching bag."
Have a place to go, Ms. A's house, your local Motel 6, a relative's house.
I'm going to predict that this will only get worse. I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can make this work.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 3:03 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
Why do you think it's okay for him to abuse you just because he's married to you.
For sure you should be in couples therapy, and you need your own therapist. Right now, you need to lay a foundation for how you want to be treated. With respect, dignity and consideration. Your husband exhibits NONE of this.
If your husband ever tries to engage you in this kind of argument again, simply get up, grab on overnight bag you have packed, and leave. You can say to him, "I deserve to be spoken to respectfully and kindly. I won't discuss anything with you until you can speak to me calmly and rationally. I am not your punching bag."
Have a place to go, Ms. A's house, your local Motel 6, a relative's house.
I'm going to predict that this will only get worse. I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can make this work.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 3:03 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
Honestly, the fact that his escalation of abuse coincides almost perfectly with moving to an area where you don't know anyone?
That's probably the worst of a slate of very, very bad signs. I think you need to seriously start looking for your way out.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:03 PM on November 6, 2014 [82 favorites]
That's probably the worst of a slate of very, very bad signs. I think you need to seriously start looking for your way out.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:03 PM on November 6, 2014 [82 favorites]
Something I'd like to note, because this post - for some good reasons - had "Ask MeFi DTMFA" written all over it: seeing as we are all Strangers on the Internet, and seeing as ending a marriage is A Big Deal, I am not going to say you should leave your husband. I am also not going to say you shouldn't leave your husband. I honestly have no idea whether or not you should leave your husband, and I don't think I am qualified to give an opinion on the matter given the information I have.
That said, yeah...couples counseling seems called for, at the very least. I find it very disturbing that he all of a sudden, after this fight, started blowing up on you 1-2 times per week and threatening suicide. If it weren't for that you could say that this fight was a one-off incident - most of us have blind spots and have done and said things we're not proud of - but that's clearly not the case now.
Has he been hiding this until now? Does he have an undiagnosed mental illness, which was triggered by this particular fight? Both of those are possibilities. He surely appears to have some pretty serious unresolved issues about his ex-wife. If he cannot, or will not, get past whatever it is that is causing this, obviously that's the end.
posted by breakin' the law at 3:04 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
That said, yeah...couples counseling seems called for, at the very least. I find it very disturbing that he all of a sudden, after this fight, started blowing up on you 1-2 times per week and threatening suicide. If it weren't for that you could say that this fight was a one-off incident - most of us have blind spots and have done and said things we're not proud of - but that's clearly not the case now.
Has he been hiding this until now? Does he have an undiagnosed mental illness, which was triggered by this particular fight? Both of those are possibilities. He surely appears to have some pretty serious unresolved issues about his ex-wife. If he cannot, or will not, get past whatever it is that is causing this, obviously that's the end.
posted by breakin' the law at 3:04 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
No real remorse for allowing such disrespect by his friend, for not defending you against R's direct attack, none for his own terrible and abusive and totally unacceptable behavior, and none for taking out on the poor dog? And, he keeps fighting with you and emotionally manipulating you via threatened suicide? I would be planning my exit. This is abusive and totally unacceptable.
At a minimum, he needs to start a crisis-level intervention with his therapist. I think he needs a couple of therapy sessions a week for now. Suicide threats and abusive behavior toward his spouse are major red flags and require very intensive intervention.
His behavior is the problem. He needs to recognize it and work very, very hard to fix it. This is not a situation where you both share the blame 50/50.
I'm also wondering whether he has a history of abuse with his ex.
Good luck and be safe. This is a very bad situation and leaving would not be an overreaction.
posted by quince at 3:05 PM on November 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
At a minimum, he needs to start a crisis-level intervention with his therapist. I think he needs a couple of therapy sessions a week for now. Suicide threats and abusive behavior toward his spouse are major red flags and require very intensive intervention.
His behavior is the problem. He needs to recognize it and work very, very hard to fix it. This is not a situation where you both share the blame 50/50.
I'm also wondering whether he has a history of abuse with his ex.
Good luck and be safe. This is a very bad situation and leaving would not be an overreaction.
posted by quince at 3:05 PM on November 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
To clarify: The BEST possible interpretation is that somehow this move has caused him to become dangerously unhinged. Maybe he didn't want it, maybe the stress and grief of it triggered some underlying issues, I dunno.
But that is the Best, and only conceivably fixable, interpretation. Much more likely is that he feels safe in being his true, horrifying self because "what's she gonna do about it? We're married and she's far from home now."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:06 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
But that is the Best, and only conceivably fixable, interpretation. Much more likely is that he feels safe in being his true, horrifying self because "what's she gonna do about it? We're married and she's far from home now."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:06 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
Best answer: chatelaine, I don't think you necessarily need to leave just yet.
It is possible this turn of events is the crisis needed for him and for the two of you as a couple to resolve some deep, nasty things.
I do agree that it's a bad sign when a man talks trash about his ex. I black list such men. I won't get involved with a man like that. It always makes me wonder "So, when will you start calling ME a bitch? Next year? Next month? As soon as I leave the room and you think I am out of earshot?"
I think there are big problems here that need to be taken seriously. And if you do stay and try to work things out, please do not do it out of a sense of lack of options. That's exactly how abuse escalates. Take what people here are saying about that seriously. If you want to try to work it out because you are married and made a vow, you can do that. But please do not stay out of a sense of being trapped. If you are feeling trapped, call a domestic violence hotline and contact a local women's shelter and talk to them about what help might be available.
Again, I am so sorry you are going through this.
posted by Michele in California at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
It is possible this turn of events is the crisis needed for him and for the two of you as a couple to resolve some deep, nasty things.
I do agree that it's a bad sign when a man talks trash about his ex. I black list such men. I won't get involved with a man like that. It always makes me wonder "So, when will you start calling ME a bitch? Next year? Next month? As soon as I leave the room and you think I am out of earshot?"
I think there are big problems here that need to be taken seriously. And if you do stay and try to work things out, please do not do it out of a sense of lack of options. That's exactly how abuse escalates. Take what people here are saying about that seriously. If you want to try to work it out because you are married and made a vow, you can do that. But please do not stay out of a sense of being trapped. If you are feeling trapped, call a domestic violence hotline and contact a local women's shelter and talk to them about what help might be available.
Again, I am so sorry you are going through this.
posted by Michele in California at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Since I met him, he always made a point of telling me that he was so crazy about me because I was nothing like his ex wife.
This is actually a huge red flag. I know it's in retrospect, so unhelpful, but I mention it because it throws doubt on the version of events where your husband was totally fine and everything was perfect until the party.
Someone who tells you that you're perfect because you're not like Person X is telling you that they're putting you on a pedestal, and also that they're going to compare you to Person X any time they don't like what you're doing.
I also wondered if the dam broke loose because of the move. You were about to be isolated from your friends, and more tied to him. It was safer for him to lash out at you.
I am really sorry that you're going through this. You shouldn't have to go through this. But you have a support network, and even if you don't feel like you can leave just yet, you can reach out to them and start thinking about how you could. You have a lot of options. I'm sure your friend would let you crash if you needed a way out.
posted by pie ninja at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [42 favorites]
This is actually a huge red flag. I know it's in retrospect, so unhelpful, but I mention it because it throws doubt on the version of events where your husband was totally fine and everything was perfect until the party.
Someone who tells you that you're perfect because you're not like Person X is telling you that they're putting you on a pedestal, and also that they're going to compare you to Person X any time they don't like what you're doing.
I also wondered if the dam broke loose because of the move. You were about to be isolated from your friends, and more tied to him. It was safer for him to lash out at you.
I am really sorry that you're going through this. You shouldn't have to go through this. But you have a support network, and even if you don't feel like you can leave just yet, you can reach out to them and start thinking about how you could. You have a lot of options. I'm sure your friend would let you crash if you needed a way out.
posted by pie ninja at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [42 favorites]
Couples' counseling is actually not done when there's current ongoing abuse, and that's what this is.
posted by bleep at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [31 favorites]
posted by bleep at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [31 favorites]
While it's possible that someone could keep a volatile temper in hiding for 2.5 years, it would be great if he could get a neurological workup. That is a terrifyingly sudden personality change.
But, before you do that, is it possible to check with any trustworthy people who've known him well for a long time and see if you can suss out if he's ever behaved this way before? (If his ex is at all discreet, can you ask her?)
posted by lesli212 at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
But, before you do that, is it possible to check with any trustworthy people who've known him well for a long time and see if you can suss out if he's ever behaved this way before? (If his ex is at all discreet, can you ask her?)
posted by lesli212 at 3:07 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
He took it out on the dog by ripping the dog out by his collar and tossing him outside in the yard
Divorce this piece of shit (and make sure you take the dog).
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:08 PM on November 6, 2014 [53 favorites]
Divorce this piece of shit (and make sure you take the dog).
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:08 PM on November 6, 2014 [53 favorites]
I am very sorry, but your husband is displaying all the classic signs of being an abuser, and you would do well to get out now before he takes it out on you, your dog, or members of your family. Nothing he's done since the fight is enough to rectify what he did during and the morning after.
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:09 PM on November 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:09 PM on November 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
Threatening suicide is a huge red flag and indicates he is capable of violence. That is not something that normally happens in the course of an argument; he's very clearly signaling that he is willing to threaten violence to control you.
Please, please find somewhere else to stay, even if it's a terrible imposition on someone you barely know. If I lived near you I'd offer my couch in a heartbeat!
posted by dialetheia at 3:09 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
Please, please find somewhere else to stay, even if it's a terrible imposition on someone you barely know. If I lived near you I'd offer my couch in a heartbeat!
posted by dialetheia at 3:09 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
Dude, hubby needs to be evaluated by a competent mental health practitioner, stat. His behaviour is atrocious, yes, but any sudden, violent change in personality should REALLY be evaluated by a doctor ASAP. It's possible he just suddenly transformed into an awful shit; it's also possible there's an underlying physical or psychological cause.
posted by julthumbscrew at 3:11 PM on November 6, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 3:11 PM on November 6, 2014 [19 favorites]
Would you stay after someone you love went into a rage like he did?
If it happened once? Probably not.
If it happened more than once? Like once or twice a week? Definitely not.
Given that it's apparently uncharacteristic of him, I would probably wonder what caused him to suddenly snap and start acting like this, but I would recognize that this is not my issue to solve and that I mostly just needed to get the hell out of there.
I would also leave the moment he threatened suicide.
Other people may have other opinions about this, but I'm of the mind that couples counseling is for helping to resolve communication issues and learning to speak each others' languages and building good habits and all of that. I would not be interested in couples counseling with a spouse who does not understand that what he's doing right now is wrong and he should not be doing it.
There may be a medical reason why this happened, but if I were you, I would find someplace else to stay while he gets it checked out.
I'm so sorry this is happening. You don't deserve this and shouldn't stand for it.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 3:13 PM on November 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
If it happened once? Probably not.
If it happened more than once? Like once or twice a week? Definitely not.
Given that it's apparently uncharacteristic of him, I would probably wonder what caused him to suddenly snap and start acting like this, but I would recognize that this is not my issue to solve and that I mostly just needed to get the hell out of there.
I would also leave the moment he threatened suicide.
Other people may have other opinions about this, but I'm of the mind that couples counseling is for helping to resolve communication issues and learning to speak each others' languages and building good habits and all of that. I would not be interested in couples counseling with a spouse who does not understand that what he's doing right now is wrong and he should not be doing it.
There may be a medical reason why this happened, but if I were you, I would find someplace else to stay while he gets it checked out.
I'm so sorry this is happening. You don't deserve this and shouldn't stand for it.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 3:13 PM on November 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
... if one of my male friends had heard one of their friends use language like that to me, their friend would be missing a few teeth.
Your husband's behaviour is inexcusable and a HUGE red flag. Stay safe, and get out ASAP. Call a women's shelter; they should have some resources for you even if you don't know anyone in your town.
posted by Tamanna at 3:14 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
Your husband's behaviour is inexcusable and a HUGE red flag. Stay safe, and get out ASAP. Call a women's shelter; they should have some resources for you even if you don't know anyone in your town.
posted by Tamanna at 3:14 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
So, Mr R told you to "take your F'ing c*** and F the F off" and your husband didn't do or say anything to defend you?
This is what i was thinking.
Dude might not be an open misogynist all the time, but in not saying anything he's complicit in it.
It's a "the standard you accept is the standard you agree with" sort of thing.
Even the biggest asshole i know, who throws things and smashes things during fights sometimes would never ever hurt his dog. What the fuck. I don't know why that's what crosses the line for me, but this guy sounds like a scary violent asshole after that confrontation. Just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean it's not his real personality and how he handles being really angry that he had just kept locked down until now.
posted by emptythought at 3:15 PM on November 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
This is what i was thinking.
Dude might not be an open misogynist all the time, but in not saying anything he's complicit in it.
It's a "the standard you accept is the standard you agree with" sort of thing.
Even the biggest asshole i know, who throws things and smashes things during fights sometimes would never ever hurt his dog. What the fuck. I don't know why that's what crosses the line for me, but this guy sounds like a scary violent asshole after that confrontation. Just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean it's not his real personality and how he handles being really angry that he had just kept locked down until now.
posted by emptythought at 3:15 PM on November 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
Since I met him, he always made a point of telling me that he was so crazy about me because I was nothing like his ex wife.
As many have said, it's a bad sign when someone "compliments" you by repeatedly putting another woman down.
Do you ever really trust again?
I don't think you should, and I don't know if anyone (your husband?) is encouraging you to think you should; but you shouldn't listen to anyone who tries to act like the onus is on you to "trust." He's the one who was untrustworthy, and still is.
If you can't stay with a friend, can you contact a women's shelter? I think you should put your safety first and get out. I'll be thinking of you.
posted by honey wheat at 3:17 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
As many have said, it's a bad sign when someone "compliments" you by repeatedly putting another woman down.
Do you ever really trust again?
I don't think you should, and I don't know if anyone (your husband?) is encouraging you to think you should; but you shouldn't listen to anyone who tries to act like the onus is on you to "trust." He's the one who was untrustworthy, and still is.
If you can't stay with a friend, can you contact a women's shelter? I think you should put your safety first and get out. I'll be thinking of you.
posted by honey wheat at 3:17 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, look, it's like this: if even my oldest and dearest friend said a thing like that to my wife/girlfriend, I would Bane vs Batman his ass over my knee. Not only did he not defend you (not that women need defending, but this is nevertheless one of the roles of a husband), but he then blamed you for it and then hurt a dog, which is one of the bottom 5 lowest things a human being can do. He's now threatening to kill himself. My feeling is, call his bluff: bundle the dog into the car, and speed off into a sunset where you will be loved and cared for.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:20 PM on November 6, 2014 [37 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:20 PM on November 6, 2014 [37 favorites]
Yeah, I just want to rephrase the summary of my previous statement:
This is unacceptable top to bottom and you should be looking for a way out immediately.
HOWEVER, the pattern you describe also makes it sound like he may have had a sudden nervous breakdown or even a sudden medical problem with cognitive effects. Depending on how invested you are in the relationship, you may be able to help support him through that and even see him get better and become once again someone who would never do any of this. But that is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to keep yourself and do what is right for you.
On the other hand, he might just be an abusive dick who successfully hid his true self from you for two and a half years. How much do you feel like gambling?
posted by 256 at 3:26 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
This is unacceptable top to bottom and you should be looking for a way out immediately.
HOWEVER, the pattern you describe also makes it sound like he may have had a sudden nervous breakdown or even a sudden medical problem with cognitive effects. Depending on how invested you are in the relationship, you may be able to help support him through that and even see him get better and become once again someone who would never do any of this. But that is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to keep yourself and do what is right for you.
On the other hand, he might just be an abusive dick who successfully hid his true self from you for two and a half years. How much do you feel like gambling?
posted by 256 at 3:26 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
(Oh, yeah, absolutely get out and keep yourself safe WHILE he's getting evaluated by a doc. You should never have to feel unsafe around your partner, for any reason. If he's legitimately mentally/physically ill, he'll forgive you once he receives treatment. If he's legitimately a dick, you'll be on your way to escaping him, as you must.)
posted by julthumbscrew at 3:34 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 3:34 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
This is so ... odd.
To me it sounds like there was some kind of trigger that caused this all to happen. It may have been the stress of moving? Are there any other stressors? (money problems, unemployment, etc?)
Maybe I missed this, but - how often does your husband drink? Was the party the first time you'd seen him really tie one on?
Also, some self-examination might be called for: are you giving him the cold shoulder or dumping on him or treating him like an alien?
I wish you both well on this, and I wish I could help, but I don't feel like I understand the situation.
posted by doctor tough love at 3:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
To me it sounds like there was some kind of trigger that caused this all to happen. It may have been the stress of moving? Are there any other stressors? (money problems, unemployment, etc?)
Maybe I missed this, but - how often does your husband drink? Was the party the first time you'd seen him really tie one on?
Also, some self-examination might be called for: are you giving him the cold shoulder or dumping on him or treating him like an alien?
I wish you both well on this, and I wish I could help, but I don't feel like I understand the situation.
posted by doctor tough love at 3:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Really sorry to hear this but it seems like you didn't know about a part of your husband before which has emerged now. The horrible side which was well hidden up until now. This side is ugly and must be most likely a side of him that is not going to go away. Your husband has some serious issues which you are just witness to. It is not you who needs counseling, it is him.
Another question is, how long was he divorced/seperated from his ex before you came along. All of this just points to the fact that you really didn't know him very well before you got married, unfortunately. Please be safe. You might also want to do an online check to see if he has any legal/criminal records of abuse or worse in his name.
posted by jellyjam at 3:47 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Another question is, how long was he divorced/seperated from his ex before you came along. All of this just points to the fact that you really didn't know him very well before you got married, unfortunately. Please be safe. You might also want to do an online check to see if he has any legal/criminal records of abuse or worse in his name.
posted by jellyjam at 3:47 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Just in support of futureisunwritten's point about medical diagnosis, there's this rarely considered diagnosis.
I don't know if that should change the advice to get out, but it may help in conceptualization.
posted by namesarehard at 3:49 PM on November 6, 2014
I don't know if that should change the advice to get out, but it may help in conceptualization.
posted by namesarehard at 3:49 PM on November 6, 2014
Move out and take the dog with you.
Your husband is abusive and dangerous and it's only going to get worse.
I'm sorry.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:49 PM on November 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
Your husband is abusive and dangerous and it's only going to get worse.
I'm sorry.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:49 PM on November 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Why do you want to move on from this fight?
Do you deserve to be called a cunt? Do you deserve being called a bitch? Do you deserve to have profanity screamed at you and to be humiliated in front of your friends?
Let me ask you something - why doesn't your husband "hear" what his asshole friend is saying about women? What doesn't he experience this kind of hate speech as just that? It's because he agrees with Mr. R that women are bitches and cunts. You sleep next to a man - now hundreds of miles from family - who thinks women are bitches and cunts and who let's his friends call you a cunt in your own home without saying a damn word in your defense.
Let me ask you something else - how much do you drink? How much does your husband drink? How often do you get this drunk? I'd wager alcohol plays a role in your relationship.
Your husband picked up your dog and threw him outside while in a drunken rage. Read that out loud substituting "My" for "Your".
Honestly? You should ask your husband to leave because he has shown you what's really in his heart. He hates women. He hates you. He didn't stick up for you, his wife, when somebody called you a cunt in your own house.
If you put up with this shit now, this will escalate to physical violence, mark my words.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 3:51 PM on November 6, 2014 [50 favorites]
Do you deserve to be called a cunt? Do you deserve being called a bitch? Do you deserve to have profanity screamed at you and to be humiliated in front of your friends?
Let me ask you something - why doesn't your husband "hear" what his asshole friend is saying about women? What doesn't he experience this kind of hate speech as just that? It's because he agrees with Mr. R that women are bitches and cunts. You sleep next to a man - now hundreds of miles from family - who thinks women are bitches and cunts and who let's his friends call you a cunt in your own home without saying a damn word in your defense.
Let me ask you something else - how much do you drink? How much does your husband drink? How often do you get this drunk? I'd wager alcohol plays a role in your relationship.
Your husband picked up your dog and threw him outside while in a drunken rage. Read that out loud substituting "My" for "Your".
Honestly? You should ask your husband to leave because he has shown you what's really in his heart. He hates women. He hates you. He didn't stick up for you, his wife, when somebody called you a cunt in your own house.
If you put up with this shit now, this will escalate to physical violence, mark my words.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 3:51 PM on November 6, 2014 [50 favorites]
I see two primary possibilities here:
First, your husband may be suffering from some sort of physical or mental ailment that is causing him to behave bizarrely. He needs to be evaluated professionally to rule this out.
Second, your husband is abusive and you are seeing the first blatant signs of this behavior. Unfortunately, given the updates, the second seems more likely to me. I'll lay out the abuse red flags I see:
1. Boundary pushing. Pushing you to have somebody stay over after you jointly agreed not to do this.
2. Animal abuse.
3. Contempt toward you when you don't behave as he wishes.
4. His words regarding his ex-wife. He appears to behave and act as though she is solely responsible for their relationship issues, which is typically a pretty juvenile way to see relationships. No reason to expect he won't do the same to you.
5. Not understanding why you shouldn't allow yourself to be abused by his friends.
6. The bad behavior starts shortly after isolation from friends and family. Classic abuse red flag. Double super duper warning klaxon red flag if this move was pushed primarily by him.
7. The abusive behavior is quickly becoming the new normal. This is also the main sign that it might be medical, particularly if this is truly 100% out of the blue.
If possible, you might want to give the ex wife a call to see if this behavior is familiar to her. It will tell you a lot about whether this behavior is new and bizarre, or the reemergence of a pattern his ex is likely familiar with.
Take a look at this list, excerpted from Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. If it sounds familiar, read the whole book. You can find it free online with a bit of searching. It is very helpful in understanding abusive dynamics and how to approach the aftermath.
posted by zug at 3:51 PM on November 6, 2014 [28 favorites]
First, your husband may be suffering from some sort of physical or mental ailment that is causing him to behave bizarrely. He needs to be evaluated professionally to rule this out.
Second, your husband is abusive and you are seeing the first blatant signs of this behavior. Unfortunately, given the updates, the second seems more likely to me. I'll lay out the abuse red flags I see:
1. Boundary pushing. Pushing you to have somebody stay over after you jointly agreed not to do this.
2. Animal abuse.
3. Contempt toward you when you don't behave as he wishes.
4. His words regarding his ex-wife. He appears to behave and act as though she is solely responsible for their relationship issues, which is typically a pretty juvenile way to see relationships. No reason to expect he won't do the same to you.
5. Not understanding why you shouldn't allow yourself to be abused by his friends.
6. The bad behavior starts shortly after isolation from friends and family. Classic abuse red flag. Double super duper warning klaxon red flag if this move was pushed primarily by him.
7. The abusive behavior is quickly becoming the new normal. This is also the main sign that it might be medical, particularly if this is truly 100% out of the blue.
If possible, you might want to give the ex wife a call to see if this behavior is familiar to her. It will tell you a lot about whether this behavior is new and bizarre, or the reemergence of a pattern his ex is likely familiar with.
Take a look at this list, excerpted from Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. If it sounds familiar, read the whole book. You can find it free online with a bit of searching. It is very helpful in understanding abusive dynamics and how to approach the aftermath.
posted by zug at 3:51 PM on November 6, 2014 [28 favorites]
OK, if any of my friends (and I don't care HOW long I've been friends with them) was making misogynistic comments at a party, making my wife and our guests uncomfortable -- well at that point I would call a cab and tell the friend to leave and threaten to call the police and have him forcibly removed for trespassing if he doesn't. Particularly if that friend started hurling obscenities at my wife.
Your husband let this happen? I don't care if he claims not to have heard it -- if you told him that, he should have believed you about how you and your guests felt, and taken appropriate action. Hint: Animal abuse is NEVER an appropriate action. (Poor dog! S/he was a completely innocent party here.)
The two of you need to go to couples counseling ASAP. You both should also go to individual counseling (and perhaps he should go to anger management -- twice a WEEK he blows up like this?) He's suicidal and should be seeing a counselor/therapist for that reason in addition to other issues.
I wouldn't advise you to DTMFA just yet. If he's unwilling to get help, then yes, but it sounds like he's got some issues he's unaware of. Tell him firmly if he ever treats the dog like that again, you WILL call the police and press charges -- and be prepared to follow through on that threat.
posted by tckma at 3:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Your husband let this happen? I don't care if he claims not to have heard it -- if you told him that, he should have believed you about how you and your guests felt, and taken appropriate action. Hint: Animal abuse is NEVER an appropriate action. (Poor dog! S/he was a completely innocent party here.)
The two of you need to go to couples counseling ASAP. You both should also go to individual counseling (and perhaps he should go to anger management -- twice a WEEK he blows up like this?) He's suicidal and should be seeing a counselor/therapist for that reason in addition to other issues.
I wouldn't advise you to DTMFA just yet. If he's unwilling to get help, then yes, but it sounds like he's got some issues he's unaware of. Tell him firmly if he ever treats the dog like that again, you WILL call the police and press charges -- and be prepared to follow through on that threat.
posted by tckma at 3:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
you saw your husband and R were friends for a long time - did R know the ex wife? is it possible that the guys had a dude chat where R told him he thinks you're exactly like the ex and now your husband is convinced that's true? your husband hates his ex wife - fair enough, that happens a lot, but your husband also started hurling abuse at you as soon as you stepped over some imaginary line which indicates that he might, like his good friend, also just hate women.
this would not be acceptable in my relationship. only you can decide if it's acceptable in yours.
posted by nadawi at 3:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
this would not be acceptable in my relationship. only you can decide if it's acceptable in yours.
posted by nadawi at 3:52 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Would you stay after someone you love went into a rage like he did?
No. I would have left that night and taken the dog with me.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 3:57 PM on November 6, 2014 [28 favorites]
No. I would have left that night and taken the dog with me.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 3:57 PM on November 6, 2014 [28 favorites]
Your husband hates you just like his ex-wife and you're going to therapy...to get over it?
Please, at your next therapy session, discuss with your therapist why you stayed and why you keep staying. Whatever else it is y'all talk (what the hell have you been talking about all this time?) about is not as important as this.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:57 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
Please, at your next therapy session, discuss with your therapist why you stayed and why you keep staying. Whatever else it is y'all talk (what the hell have you been talking about all this time?) about is not as important as this.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:57 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
I am also going to add that he will NOT leave because he's abusive and will not accept responsibility.
So you need to make plans to leave him. Now.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 4:02 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
So you need to make plans to leave him. Now.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 4:02 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
This is so incredibly awful, and I am sorry this happened to you. You do not deserve to be treated this way.
Look, if Mr. R is in any way representative of the kinds of people your husband hangs out with, it's no wonder he's such an abusive creep. I don't know anyone who talks like that, and I wouldn't even be friends with someone who had friends like him. It's time to call it. I'm sorry.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:13 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Look, if Mr. R is in any way representative of the kinds of people your husband hangs out with, it's no wonder he's such an abusive creep. I don't know anyone who talks like that, and I wouldn't even be friends with someone who had friends like him. It's time to call it. I'm sorry.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:13 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You're in danger.
Most abusers won't be abusive on a first date. They might show signs, like telling you that what they admire about you is how unlike their loathsome current partner you are, but those signs often aren't recognizable until it's too late. They wait until your relationship is well established, say a year. And often they wait until you're in a situation where you can't get away before they really let rip.
You know, kind of like your situation.
Please call your local advice service for abused women and ask them how to safely plan your escape. Leaving is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship and you do not want to let on whatsoever that the thought has ever even crossed your mind. So make a stealth escape plan, Then take your dog and run the fuck away.
I know you probably won't do that and will probably need another year or two to really convince yourself that he is abusive and this won't get better, and who knows how much more the odds will be stacked against you by then - but I would suggest that you also get a copy of "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft. Go to a public library to order a copy online, using a payment method he doesn't know about, and get it delivered to your workplace or something - it won't be safe for him to know that you're reading it.
By reading that book, you will find answers to all the curious questions people have raised about the many and various things that could possibly be the explanation for his behaviour.
Or, you could stealth plan your exit, take your dog and run for your life. That's what I wish you would do. But I realize you're probably not going to give up until you've tried everything, and by the time you are finally ready to leave you'll be starting from a place of even less financial, relational and emotional resources than you have now so that will be a question for another time.
So yeah, bottom line is, get away now. Reality is, you probably aren't ready.
So, if you aren't ready to leave now, call your local advice line and also get a copy of the book which you should keep hidden. The advice line will also tell you what, if anything, you can do to protect your dog (though it's already looking like he's not long for this world, I'm sorry to say).
Good luck and I'm sorry this is happening to you.
posted by tel3path at 4:16 PM on November 6, 2014 [48 favorites]
Most abusers won't be abusive on a first date. They might show signs, like telling you that what they admire about you is how unlike their loathsome current partner you are, but those signs often aren't recognizable until it's too late. They wait until your relationship is well established, say a year. And often they wait until you're in a situation where you can't get away before they really let rip.
You know, kind of like your situation.
Please call your local advice service for abused women and ask them how to safely plan your escape. Leaving is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship and you do not want to let on whatsoever that the thought has ever even crossed your mind. So make a stealth escape plan, Then take your dog and run the fuck away.
I know you probably won't do that and will probably need another year or two to really convince yourself that he is abusive and this won't get better, and who knows how much more the odds will be stacked against you by then - but I would suggest that you also get a copy of "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft. Go to a public library to order a copy online, using a payment method he doesn't know about, and get it delivered to your workplace or something - it won't be safe for him to know that you're reading it.
By reading that book, you will find answers to all the curious questions people have raised about the many and various things that could possibly be the explanation for his behaviour.
Or, you could stealth plan your exit, take your dog and run for your life. That's what I wish you would do. But I realize you're probably not going to give up until you've tried everything, and by the time you are finally ready to leave you'll be starting from a place of even less financial, relational and emotional resources than you have now so that will be a question for another time.
So yeah, bottom line is, get away now. Reality is, you probably aren't ready.
So, if you aren't ready to leave now, call your local advice line and also get a copy of the book which you should keep hidden. The advice line will also tell you what, if anything, you can do to protect your dog (though it's already looking like he's not long for this world, I'm sorry to say).
Good luck and I'm sorry this is happening to you.
posted by tel3path at 4:16 PM on November 6, 2014 [48 favorites]
Oh, and may I just second:
Move out and take the dog with you.
Your husband is abusive and dangerous and it's only going to get worse.
I'm sorry.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:49 PM on November 6 [1 favorite −] [!]
posted by tel3path at 4:20 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
Move out and take the dog with you.
Your husband is abusive and dangerous and it's only going to get worse.
I'm sorry.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:49 PM on November 6 [1 favorite −] [!]
posted by tel3path at 4:20 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
This is abuse, and it's inexcusable, and it's escalating. I would leave, and soon.
posted by sarcasticah at 4:22 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by sarcasticah at 4:22 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Hey, I just wanted to check in one last time with two extra thoughts.
First, let's give your husband the benefit of the doubt and say that this is a medical issue. Let's assume that he has (heaven forbid) a brain tumor that has finally grown large enough to start pressing on parts of his brain and it's caused a severe personality change. Or he's having a severe bipolar episode. Or whatever is going on.
If this is the case, you are not abandoning him by taking steps to protect yourself (like staying with a friend or in a motel for a while.) It is perfectly possible to tell him that you are going to use somewhere else as home base for a bit because his behavior is scaring you and seems out of line with his personality and strongly encourage him to get a full medical workup. You can still be supportive without taking needless risks, and in doing so, you are doing what your healthy husband would want, because you are keeping him from hurting you (either physically or emotionally) while he is sick. If your husband is ill, the best thing you can do for both of you right now is to make sure you're in a safe, sane place where you can reach out to him from your own preserved strength to try and help. His reaction to this may tell you some of what you need to know about whether he is genuinely ill or whether he is merely letting you in on the fact he is abusive, and whether you can continue to offer that help without putting yourself in danger or if you need to remove yourself from the situation. The best part of your husband, the man who I'm sure you thought you married, wants you to be safe.
You might also want to consider reaching out to friends and family back home and letting them know what is going on. It's important to have people that you can talk to about this stuff, that will support you, help you process what's happening, and that can assist you in making a hasty exit if needed.
Second thought: do you two share a bank account? If, on the hopefully not applicable but sadly likely chance that this is abuse and not a brain health issue, the next step an abuser will likely take after you say the word "leave" is to try and remove your ability to do so. If you share a bank account, this may include keeping you from the funds you need to have a life away from him. I strongly, strongly, strongly encourage you to open a new bank account that he cannot access and does not know about it, and to put as much emergency 'just in case' funding in as you can. Again, this is not a betrayal of your husband or of your marriage. If he is not abusive, you will never have to use it. If he is abusive and is willing to work hard to learn new patterns of behavior and to rebuild your relationship from the ground up, you may have to use it but he will be horrified that he ever made you feel that unsafe. If he is not abusive and this situation resolves itself, he never has to know. Any way you slice it, there is absolutely no reason not to do this.
Please take care of yourself and stay safe. We are all rooting for you.
posted by WidgetAlley at 4:24 PM on November 6, 2014 [46 favorites]
First, let's give your husband the benefit of the doubt and say that this is a medical issue. Let's assume that he has (heaven forbid) a brain tumor that has finally grown large enough to start pressing on parts of his brain and it's caused a severe personality change. Or he's having a severe bipolar episode. Or whatever is going on.
If this is the case, you are not abandoning him by taking steps to protect yourself (like staying with a friend or in a motel for a while.) It is perfectly possible to tell him that you are going to use somewhere else as home base for a bit because his behavior is scaring you and seems out of line with his personality and strongly encourage him to get a full medical workup. You can still be supportive without taking needless risks, and in doing so, you are doing what your healthy husband would want, because you are keeping him from hurting you (either physically or emotionally) while he is sick. If your husband is ill, the best thing you can do for both of you right now is to make sure you're in a safe, sane place where you can reach out to him from your own preserved strength to try and help. His reaction to this may tell you some of what you need to know about whether he is genuinely ill or whether he is merely letting you in on the fact he is abusive, and whether you can continue to offer that help without putting yourself in danger or if you need to remove yourself from the situation. The best part of your husband, the man who I'm sure you thought you married, wants you to be safe.
You might also want to consider reaching out to friends and family back home and letting them know what is going on. It's important to have people that you can talk to about this stuff, that will support you, help you process what's happening, and that can assist you in making a hasty exit if needed.
Second thought: do you two share a bank account? If, on the hopefully not applicable but sadly likely chance that this is abuse and not a brain health issue, the next step an abuser will likely take after you say the word "leave" is to try and remove your ability to do so. If you share a bank account, this may include keeping you from the funds you need to have a life away from him. I strongly, strongly, strongly encourage you to open a new bank account that he cannot access and does not know about it, and to put as much emergency 'just in case' funding in as you can. Again, this is not a betrayal of your husband or of your marriage. If he is not abusive, you will never have to use it. If he is abusive and is willing to work hard to learn new patterns of behavior and to rebuild your relationship from the ground up, you may have to use it but he will be horrified that he ever made you feel that unsafe. If he is not abusive and this situation resolves itself, he never has to know. Any way you slice it, there is absolutely no reason not to do this.
Please take care of yourself and stay safe. We are all rooting for you.
posted by WidgetAlley at 4:24 PM on November 6, 2014 [46 favorites]
I agree with all the get out of there comments. In addition, although it may not be possible, it would be very interesting to hear the ex wife's version of their relationship and what lead to their separation. I bet my life that you'd see similar outbursts if not actual examples of violence in that relationship. And if she managed to get away from him, of course he'd hate her with a passion. It actually doesn't matter if this is a medical issue or if he's just a scary psychopath, either way this is not a safe situation, whether it's his fault or not. Get out and assess things from a distance with some safety and perspective. Please be safe and update us on how things are if you could.
posted by Jubey at 4:30 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Jubey at 4:30 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't know what kind of therapy he's getting, but I think he needs to see a psychiatrist. He may have some underlying mental issue that his therapist isn't detecting.
The way he's treating you is abusive, but the cause of it may be a medical issue. About a year ago, my partner and I went through a very difficult period during which he expressed a lot of anger towards me. We first went to therapy, which didn't help that much. Later on he went to a psychiatrist, who diagnosed my partner with depression and prescribed medicine. And then slowly, with a lot of work, things got a lot better. So, it could get better, but it won't get better on its own.
posted by Lingasol at 4:32 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
The way he's treating you is abusive, but the cause of it may be a medical issue. About a year ago, my partner and I went through a very difficult period during which he expressed a lot of anger towards me. We first went to therapy, which didn't help that much. Later on he went to a psychiatrist, who diagnosed my partner with depression and prescribed medicine. And then slowly, with a lot of work, things got a lot better. So, it could get better, but it won't get better on its own.
posted by Lingasol at 4:32 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Re talking to the ex wife:
You might also be interested in the book The Wife-in-law. I never read it, but reading the blurb on the back cover has stayed with me for many years. It basically asserted that after two women who were married to the same man get to know each other, they often learn that they get vilified in the same way, they have to put up with the same crap, etc.
posted by Michele in California at 4:36 PM on November 6, 2014
You might also be interested in the book The Wife-in-law. I never read it, but reading the blurb on the back cover has stayed with me for many years. It basically asserted that after two women who were married to the same man get to know each other, they often learn that they get vilified in the same way, they have to put up with the same crap, etc.
posted by Michele in California at 4:36 PM on November 6, 2014
Best answer: With considerable respect to the valuable opinions presented here on the subject, what went on between him and his ex-wife doesn't matter. His behavior towards YOU is reprehensible. You have grounds and ample reason to divorce him over this. What happened in this fight is not a "normal" occurrence in healthy love relationships. If you had better self-esteem, you would be so disgusted at him and his belief system you'd have called the cops and served him divorce papers by now. That this feels so bad is your repressed brain starting to get angry at being held psychologically hostage.
Apologies for multiple posts. I'm angry on your behalf.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 5:09 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Apologies for multiple posts. I'm angry on your behalf.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 5:09 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
This guy sounds like he a) has issues b) is an asshole c) doesn't respect you at all.
Look, your husband already sounded like a jerk when you described the sort of company he chooses to keep and the fact that he didn't seem to bat an eye at his friend being such an awful person. Then you described his rampage where he called you a bitch and the fact that he has continued to have these outbursts.
From where I am sitting, as an internet stranger, this guy does not respect women and he doesn't respect you. If I got drunk and I got mad, I can't fathom ever using the N-word about a black person because those sorts of words and thoughts never enter my mind. Being drunk makes us say things that we normally know better than to say, even if we want to say them. Anger does the same thing. The fact that he thinks those sorts of things, whether he says them or not, is already a problem. The fact that he feels the need to unleash these feelings after they get bottled up is scary.
On top of that, the fact that he feels the need to compare you to his ex-wife, as if all women are in two categories is weird to me and further shows he has a problem with women. And again, that creepy guy is his best friend. There's no way he didn't know what sorts of views his friend had about women. If they are friends, it's likely your husband shares those beliefs.
You must love him if you're with him, but I don't know how you change this or truly move past it. It's not like it's a behavior quirk or something he's managing with the best of intentions. He hasn't shown genuine remorse and it doesn't sound like he's making an effort to be less abusive toward you since it's only getting worse. He has a certain view of women -- including you -- and behavioral changes will be a band-aid over that.
If this guy doesn't respect women and respect you, all the therapy in the world won't fix it. You need to leave. You deserve better, both as a woman and as a human being.
(When you do leave, have a support system in place and don't let him know where you will be living. He sounds fucking nuts. Check out resources for domestic violence victims and the guidelines for leaving an abuser.)
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:32 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
Look, your husband already sounded like a jerk when you described the sort of company he chooses to keep and the fact that he didn't seem to bat an eye at his friend being such an awful person. Then you described his rampage where he called you a bitch and the fact that he has continued to have these outbursts.
From where I am sitting, as an internet stranger, this guy does not respect women and he doesn't respect you. If I got drunk and I got mad, I can't fathom ever using the N-word about a black person because those sorts of words and thoughts never enter my mind. Being drunk makes us say things that we normally know better than to say, even if we want to say them. Anger does the same thing. The fact that he thinks those sorts of things, whether he says them or not, is already a problem. The fact that he feels the need to unleash these feelings after they get bottled up is scary.
On top of that, the fact that he feels the need to compare you to his ex-wife, as if all women are in two categories is weird to me and further shows he has a problem with women. And again, that creepy guy is his best friend. There's no way he didn't know what sorts of views his friend had about women. If they are friends, it's likely your husband shares those beliefs.
You must love him if you're with him, but I don't know how you change this or truly move past it. It's not like it's a behavior quirk or something he's managing with the best of intentions. He hasn't shown genuine remorse and it doesn't sound like he's making an effort to be less abusive toward you since it's only getting worse. He has a certain view of women -- including you -- and behavioral changes will be a band-aid over that.
If this guy doesn't respect women and respect you, all the therapy in the world won't fix it. You need to leave. You deserve better, both as a woman and as a human being.
(When you do leave, have a support system in place and don't let him know where you will be living. He sounds fucking nuts. Check out resources for domestic violence victims and the guidelines for leaving an abuser.)
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:32 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
Is a relationship ever the same after something like this? How do you pick yourself up and move on? Do you ever really trust again? Do things get better with therapy and time? Would you stay after someone you love went into a rage like he did?
No.
I'm so sorry. The answer to all of these questions is No. If you are as overwhelmed by this as I'd imagine you are, the thing to do is deal with things one at a time, starting with physical needs first. That means you and Dog. Get out with you and Dog. Call a no-kill animal shelter if you can't take dog right now -- tell them the truth: you need someone to help you and foster your dog. Ask around. Want to say where you are? Maybe somebody can foster a dog for a while.
But just one thing at a time: first, you and dog and safety and shelter. Second, securing personal possessions with meaning. Third, securing finances. Fourth, securing personal possessions without tons of meaning. Fifth, plan for future housing.
Stay safe and please be very discreet and careful. Dump this from your browser history. Do you use Chrome? Access Metafilter in an incognito window. Don't log in from your regular browser. Delete your history and cookies.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I know that it is heartbreaking.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:36 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
No.
I'm so sorry. The answer to all of these questions is No. If you are as overwhelmed by this as I'd imagine you are, the thing to do is deal with things one at a time, starting with physical needs first. That means you and Dog. Get out with you and Dog. Call a no-kill animal shelter if you can't take dog right now -- tell them the truth: you need someone to help you and foster your dog. Ask around. Want to say where you are? Maybe somebody can foster a dog for a while.
But just one thing at a time: first, you and dog and safety and shelter. Second, securing personal possessions with meaning. Third, securing finances. Fourth, securing personal possessions without tons of meaning. Fifth, plan for future housing.
Stay safe and please be very discreet and careful. Dump this from your browser history. Do you use Chrome? Access Metafilter in an incognito window. Don't log in from your regular browser. Delete your history and cookies.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I know that it is heartbreaking.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:36 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
The lack of remorse thing is puzzling. Usually abusers are very good at wooing you back after a flare-up or particularly awful session, to make you second-guess yourself. See, he's really a good person. He really cares about me. Look how sweet he is, it was just a random thing. It won't happen again. So the fact that he's not doing this is different from the normal pattern - or is he doing it and you can see through it for the insincere thing it is?
That's the main thing that makes me think there is some other thing going on with him and it is not just a straightforward abusive relationship (yes, that's practically a contradiction in terms).
Nevertheless, his past and more importantly continuing behaviour towards you is not on. If he has some kind of physical or mental illness that needs treatment, he needs to get that treatment instead of taking it out on you. You need to remove yourself, and your dog, from the situation for your own safety. Couples counselling is not going to prove helpful at this stage; it might later if things stabilise and you still want to stay together. Keep up your own individual counselling, it will be a useful source of information and perspective and venting. If it isn't, please get a new counsellor. And talk to them about all this stuff.
I don't know whether you should DTMFA. It is clear that he is being a MFA. There are a lot of warning signs that this isn't just an external thing that can be magically fixed with the right treatment, so if you want to stay you'll be in it for the long haul. You would be totally justified in leaving him and I personally think you should. But whatever you do in the long term, right now you need to make yourself safe and give yourself the space to process what's going on. You don't have to decide on anything else right now.
Can you go back to the place you used to live and stay with friends there? Or with some family members? Just get out of the situation for a while? Please don't stay there, it sounds like a dangerous situation for you to be in.
posted by Athanassiel at 5:39 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
That's the main thing that makes me think there is some other thing going on with him and it is not just a straightforward abusive relationship (yes, that's practically a contradiction in terms).
Nevertheless, his past and more importantly continuing behaviour towards you is not on. If he has some kind of physical or mental illness that needs treatment, he needs to get that treatment instead of taking it out on you. You need to remove yourself, and your dog, from the situation for your own safety. Couples counselling is not going to prove helpful at this stage; it might later if things stabilise and you still want to stay together. Keep up your own individual counselling, it will be a useful source of information and perspective and venting. If it isn't, please get a new counsellor. And talk to them about all this stuff.
I don't know whether you should DTMFA. It is clear that he is being a MFA. There are a lot of warning signs that this isn't just an external thing that can be magically fixed with the right treatment, so if you want to stay you'll be in it for the long haul. You would be totally justified in leaving him and I personally think you should. But whatever you do in the long term, right now you need to make yourself safe and give yourself the space to process what's going on. You don't have to decide on anything else right now.
Can you go back to the place you used to live and stay with friends there? Or with some family members? Just get out of the situation for a while? Please don't stay there, it sounds like a dangerous situation for you to be in.
posted by Athanassiel at 5:39 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Any chance R brought drugs to the party, your husband and him got high and your husband continues to use?
Either way I'd leave until I had a damn good explanation why his personality changed so much. That's bizarre and frightening.
posted by fshgrl at 5:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
Either way I'd leave until I had a damn good explanation why his personality changed so much. That's bizarre and frightening.
posted by fshgrl at 5:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
Potential explanation for his change in behaviour (and I wanna preface this by saying that it's not in any way an excuse or justification and I think you should absolutely leave the guy).
Anyway. My step dad was abusive. One way my parents agreed on to, um, curb his abuse was that he "had an out". For a long time he rented a separate apartment that he'd retire to when he was drunk & angry instead of beating up my mum.
Is it possible that your husband had developed (without your knowledge) a similar strategy and he lost this "out" when you moved away?
Oh also, my dad's abuse was always so so much worse when we were on holiday. I suspect this was also because he could "get away from" my mum even less and his rage just built. Are you spending more time together than you used to?
Anyway, this is just to help you figure out this allegedly inexplicable change in behaviour. Please leave this man. He's shown you his true colours.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 5:58 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
Anyway. My step dad was abusive. One way my parents agreed on to, um, curb his abuse was that he "had an out". For a long time he rented a separate apartment that he'd retire to when he was drunk & angry instead of beating up my mum.
Is it possible that your husband had developed (without your knowledge) a similar strategy and he lost this "out" when you moved away?
Oh also, my dad's abuse was always so so much worse when we were on holiday. I suspect this was also because he could "get away from" my mum even less and his rage just built. Are you spending more time together than you used to?
Anyway, this is just to help you figure out this allegedly inexplicable change in behaviour. Please leave this man. He's shown you his true colours.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 5:58 PM on November 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
You are in immediate physical danger and you need to get away from the daily violence you're describing as soon as possible. I'm so sorry. I know this is terrifying. But if your husband is having multi- weekly "blow-ups" that involve trashing the house, heavy drinking, being violent towards your pets, threatening self-harm, or at minimum verbally abusing you in the wake of the kind of intense episode of domestic violence following the incident with Mr. R, please do not dismiss this. I have not read a question on the green before that made me feel so strongly that the Asker's life was in danger.
The National Domestic Violence hotline for the USA is 1-800-799-7233. Your friend of 20 years, Ms A, might also be able to offer you and your dog a safe place to stay. Please be safe.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
The National Domestic Violence hotline for the USA is 1-800-799-7233. Your friend of 20 years, Ms A, might also be able to offer you and your dog a safe place to stay. Please be safe.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:42 PM on November 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
Oh, I'm so sorry. You must feel blindsided. I want to give you a hug. And I wish you could be with your friends who love you right now.
This is classic abuse. From comparing you to his ex, to waiting a year or so after marriage to show his true colors, to isolating you from your support network. Textbook.
But this isn't a textbook, this is your life. Please get a plan together to leave him before you get any more enmeshed and dependent and before he gets worse. You won't be able to think straight after a certain point of living under the cloud of his rage and torment, so I am so proud of you for asking this question now.
The last question you should concern yourself with is "why." You may never get an answer. I really don't think speculation about brain tumors is going to help you at the moment. (Does he blow up at his boss and use obscene language at the bank and "lose" other recent memories? If not, you can be reasonably assured he is not suffering from Sudden Mystery Illness.) And if out turns out he's not an abusive nightmare person, just sick? Great! You can come back once his medical professionals give him a clean bill of health.
The book The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans will make you feel so validated and empowered. You will know for sure it's not your fault and not your problem to solve. You will learn what you need to do to escape. You will learn that this is not something that can be couples-counseled away or that you can fix by becoming more understanding.
What sort of person has ONE friend in the world, who happens to be a (literally-raging) misogynist drunken pig? What sort of person takes his anger out physically on a dog? Is that the sort of person with whom you want to be trapped away from your loved ones?
You are not a b**** or a c***. You don't need anyone who says so in your life.
posted by kapers at 7:02 PM on November 6, 2014 [19 favorites]
This is classic abuse. From comparing you to his ex, to waiting a year or so after marriage to show his true colors, to isolating you from your support network. Textbook.
But this isn't a textbook, this is your life. Please get a plan together to leave him before you get any more enmeshed and dependent and before he gets worse. You won't be able to think straight after a certain point of living under the cloud of his rage and torment, so I am so proud of you for asking this question now.
The last question you should concern yourself with is "why." You may never get an answer. I really don't think speculation about brain tumors is going to help you at the moment. (Does he blow up at his boss and use obscene language at the bank and "lose" other recent memories? If not, you can be reasonably assured he is not suffering from Sudden Mystery Illness.) And if out turns out he's not an abusive nightmare person, just sick? Great! You can come back once his medical professionals give him a clean bill of health.
The book The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans will make you feel so validated and empowered. You will know for sure it's not your fault and not your problem to solve. You will learn what you need to do to escape. You will learn that this is not something that can be couples-counseled away or that you can fix by becoming more understanding.
What sort of person has ONE friend in the world, who happens to be a (literally-raging) misogynist drunken pig? What sort of person takes his anger out physically on a dog? Is that the sort of person with whom you want to be trapped away from your loved ones?
You are not a b**** or a c***. You don't need anyone who says so in your life.
posted by kapers at 7:02 PM on November 6, 2014 [19 favorites]
Best answer: Sometimes we have fights with people we love and get stuck because we're hung up on ego, or being right, or having our worst fears seemingly confirmed when really our partners are just people trying to get through life okay.
And then there are fights that stay with you because deep inside you know that they showed you something so true and dark, that your core being cannot relax again around that person because...the truth is, that person is not a safe haven or a place of respect and dignity for you, as partners should be.
I kind of bet this situation is the second.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:39 PM on November 6, 2014 [24 favorites]
And then there are fights that stay with you because deep inside you know that they showed you something so true and dark, that your core being cannot relax again around that person because...the truth is, that person is not a safe haven or a place of respect and dignity for you, as partners should be.
I kind of bet this situation is the second.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:39 PM on November 6, 2014 [24 favorites]
your guy needs help. If you can, help. if it is not safe, do not help.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:43 PM on November 6, 2014
posted by Ironmouth at 7:43 PM on November 6, 2014
Therapy is not going to help him unless the therapist knows what's going on and believes what's going on. I would be fairly confident that he is telling his therapist what a horrible controlling person you are, and the therapist is sympathizing with him and telling him how to assert his rights with you -- basically, feeding right into his persecution complex. I wouldn't assume that therapy is going to help the problems you are describing, because I wouldn't assume he's being honest with the therapist.
Couples therapy will likely give him more ammunition to use against you, and is not recommended when a partner is being actively abused.
I think you should contact the National Domestic Abuse Hotline and ask them for guidance; they will help you talk through your options.
posted by jaguar at 7:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [17 favorites]
Couples therapy will likely give him more ammunition to use against you, and is not recommended when a partner is being actively abused.
I think you should contact the National Domestic Abuse Hotline and ask them for guidance; they will help you talk through your options.
posted by jaguar at 7:44 PM on November 6, 2014 [17 favorites]
If you were my friend, I'd tell you that the situation doesn't sound safe and that you should get out while you can, at the very least to figure out what the next steps should be. The only time I've ever seen such a sudden change was from someone with a brain injury. Good luck and stay safe.
posted by klangklangston at 8:04 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 8:04 PM on November 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
You say that you don't know anybody in your new city. If you have a job, I would talk to a (preferably female) co-worker, anybody with whom you are on good terms, and see if she doesn't offer you a spot on her couch for a few days. If you don't have a job, do you volunteer anywhere? If you walk the dog, do you chat with any neighbors? People at the dog run? Do you go to church? Do you have any group activities?
If not, start now! Build that social support network, the sooner the better!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 8:16 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
If not, start now! Build that social support network, the sooner the better!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 8:16 PM on November 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Yes, as others have said, I think your gut's unwillingness to move on from this is an important sign that you should listen to.
You don't have to (nor *should* you necessarily) move on from this.
The fact that he's started blowing up at you regularly makes me wonder if the initial huge fight and the fact that you stayed has served as a green light for him to continue this sort of behavior under the assumption that you will tolerate it.
And yes, nthing what others have said, couples therapy can be dangerous when it comes to abusive relationships. Unfortunately, some (many?) couples therapists are not able to (or not properly trained to) pick up on abusive dynamics and 'therapy tactics' can be used by the abuser to perpetuate/justify the abuse (it's disgusting, but this does happen)
posted by twill at 8:34 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
You don't have to (nor *should* you necessarily) move on from this.
The fact that he's started blowing up at you regularly makes me wonder if the initial huge fight and the fact that you stayed has served as a green light for him to continue this sort of behavior under the assumption that you will tolerate it.
And yes, nthing what others have said, couples therapy can be dangerous when it comes to abusive relationships. Unfortunately, some (many?) couples therapists are not able to (or not properly trained to) pick up on abusive dynamics and 'therapy tactics' can be used by the abuser to perpetuate/justify the abuse (it's disgusting, but this does happen)
posted by twill at 8:34 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
I don't really have anything to add to the advice listed upthread, but I just wanted to say that though I have not been in your particular situation, I have been in a situation where I'm in a new city and feel isolated and my partner was (for a very different reason) not as available as I would like.
You did not say where you relocated to, but I would bet that there are at least a few MeFites in your area who would be more than happy to connect with you socially. If you are in Atlanta, I'd be happy to show you around and connect you with people. (I'd imagine that I'm not alone in my offer of support)
posted by softlord at 8:35 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
You did not say where you relocated to, but I would bet that there are at least a few MeFites in your area who would be more than happy to connect with you socially. If you are in Atlanta, I'd be happy to show you around and connect you with people. (I'd imagine that I'm not alone in my offer of support)
posted by softlord at 8:35 PM on November 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
If you are in Atlanta, I'd be happy to show you around and connect you with people. (I'd imagine that I'm not alone in my offer of support)
Nope. I'm in Atlanta, I'll join that party!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:38 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Nope. I'm in Atlanta, I'll join that party!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:38 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I had a friend in a similar situation, and her husband was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. He changed quite suddenly and started acting like he hated her at times. She said that, according to the doctors, he was unable to feel love and anger at the same time. Nthing that this is probably serious.
posted by kjs4 at 8:53 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by kjs4 at 8:53 PM on November 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is so weird that I'll second a medical work up. I'm surprised that your counselor hasn't suggested it.
In the meantime, I'd rent a place or couch surf (with the dog, if possible, or find a temporary foster for it) until your husband gets his act together. You aren't doing either of you a favor by staying there while he treats you badly.
Best case scenario, he gets treatment for his condition and feels 1000% horrible for all the things he did.
Worst case scenario, you're seeing his real colors.
In either case, you'll be mitigating the damage by removing yourself from his abuse for the moment, so you can get some serenity and a good night's sleep. (plus he'll have less to regret later if it IS a medical condition.) Put your own oxygen mask on first, etc.
EDIT: Sorry, I misread. Only HE'S going to therapy? Nevermind the counselor part.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:54 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
In the meantime, I'd rent a place or couch surf (with the dog, if possible, or find a temporary foster for it) until your husband gets his act together. You aren't doing either of you a favor by staying there while he treats you badly.
Best case scenario, he gets treatment for his condition and feels 1000% horrible for all the things he did.
Worst case scenario, you're seeing his real colors.
In either case, you'll be mitigating the damage by removing yourself from his abuse for the moment, so you can get some serenity and a good night's sleep. (plus he'll have less to regret later if it IS a medical condition.) Put your own oxygen mask on first, etc.
EDIT: Sorry, I misread. Only HE'S going to therapy? Nevermind the counselor part.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:54 PM on November 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
You won't be able to think straight after a certain point of living under the cloud of his rage and torment.
This is already happening. Please consider packing up the dog and going home tonight to your parents' house or your friend's house in the city you used to live. Either by plane or by car, it is crucial that you go no-contact and get out of this context immediately. You don't have to think of it as leaving forever. You can think of it as an experiment. Just get out and be somewhere where you are loved and supported for at least two weeks and from that standpoint make a decision about what you want.
Don't tell anyone anything. Just go.
p.s. I have been in your position. I do think he hates you, for reasons that have nothing to do with you and which it is impossible to remedy. This isn't the case of a good person with some flaws. Your husband is character-disordered and there is no one home in there, I promise.
posted by macinchik at 8:58 PM on November 6, 2014 [9 favorites]
This is already happening. Please consider packing up the dog and going home tonight to your parents' house or your friend's house in the city you used to live. Either by plane or by car, it is crucial that you go no-contact and get out of this context immediately. You don't have to think of it as leaving forever. You can think of it as an experiment. Just get out and be somewhere where you are loved and supported for at least two weeks and from that standpoint make a decision about what you want.
Don't tell anyone anything. Just go.
p.s. I have been in your position. I do think he hates you, for reasons that have nothing to do with you and which it is impossible to remedy. This isn't the case of a good person with some flaws. Your husband is character-disordered and there is no one home in there, I promise.
posted by macinchik at 8:58 PM on November 6, 2014 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Unfortunately, some (many?) couples therapists are not able to (or not properly trained to) pick up on abusive dynamics and 'therapy tactics' can be used by the abuser to perpetuate/justify the abuse (it's disgusting, but this does happen)
Actually, it's that couple's therapy is based on the idea that both parties need to work to make things better, which is totally inappropriate if one partner is being abusive (because the abusive partner is the one who needs to change, not the abused partner). It has nothing to do with the skill of the therapist. And even if the therapist does realize abuse is happening, then they can't really work simultaneously with the abusive and abused partners, as abusers generally won't sit in a room being told, in front of their partner, that they're being abusive, and the abuser will often use the anger generated in such a situation against the partner once they leave the therapist's office.
Couples therapy is actively dangerous for an abused partner, and people should stop suggesting it in such situations.
posted by jaguar at 9:04 PM on November 6, 2014 [25 favorites]
Actually, it's that couple's therapy is based on the idea that both parties need to work to make things better, which is totally inappropriate if one partner is being abusive (because the abusive partner is the one who needs to change, not the abused partner). It has nothing to do with the skill of the therapist. And even if the therapist does realize abuse is happening, then they can't really work simultaneously with the abusive and abused partners, as abusers generally won't sit in a room being told, in front of their partner, that they're being abusive, and the abuser will often use the anger generated in such a situation against the partner once they leave the therapist's office.
Couples therapy is actively dangerous for an abused partner, and people should stop suggesting it in such situations.
posted by jaguar at 9:04 PM on November 6, 2014 [25 favorites]
"And then there are fights that stay with you because deep inside you know that they showed you something so true and dark, that your core being cannot relax again around that person because...the truth is, that person is not a safe haven or a place of respect and dignity for you, as partners should be."
Yes. You can't come back from this. The relationship as you knew it is over. This was a complete and utter betrayal of you and your relationship, and especially your poor innocent dog. I somehow doubt there's a sudden medical excuse for this--it's probably more like now that you're isolated, he no longer has to stay on "good behavior" because you're trapped with him now. He's outed himself as thinking you're a motherfucking bitch cunt. You don't want to stay with a guy like that, especially one who thinks it's okay to ABUSE THE DOG.
Seriously, please work on leaving. Ms. A sounds like she'd be willing to take you in. This is not going to get better from here on in the longer you stay with this guy. He's betrayed you. Please get out before he makes it worse.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:12 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
Yes. You can't come back from this. The relationship as you knew it is over. This was a complete and utter betrayal of you and your relationship, and especially your poor innocent dog. I somehow doubt there's a sudden medical excuse for this--it's probably more like now that you're isolated, he no longer has to stay on "good behavior" because you're trapped with him now. He's outed himself as thinking you're a motherfucking bitch cunt. You don't want to stay with a guy like that, especially one who thinks it's okay to ABUSE THE DOG.
Seriously, please work on leaving. Ms. A sounds like she'd be willing to take you in. This is not going to get better from here on in the longer you stay with this guy. He's betrayed you. Please get out before he makes it worse.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:12 PM on November 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
For me, "moving on" from a fight like this would require three things. I'd want to know why it happened, I'd want my husband to apologize and be sincerely remorseful, and I'd want my husband to know that I was divorcing him if it happened again.
Now, clearly it is still happening, so it's not like you have to "move on" from something that happened in the past. It's more that you wish you could move on from a present behavior. Unfortunately, it sounds like the behavior mostly has to do with him -- whether the problem is some kind of mental breakdown or something else. If I were married to this guy and felt safe enough to ask, I would be very insistent on knowing what the hell he thought was going on and what his plan was to fix it. If I did not feel safe enough to ask these questions, I would be planning an immediate separation.
Sorry this stuff is happening to you. You do not deserve to be treated like that.
posted by feets at 3:10 AM on November 7, 2014
Now, clearly it is still happening, so it's not like you have to "move on" from something that happened in the past. It's more that you wish you could move on from a present behavior. Unfortunately, it sounds like the behavior mostly has to do with him -- whether the problem is some kind of mental breakdown or something else. If I were married to this guy and felt safe enough to ask, I would be very insistent on knowing what the hell he thought was going on and what his plan was to fix it. If I did not feel safe enough to ask these questions, I would be planning an immediate separation.
Sorry this stuff is happening to you. You do not deserve to be treated like that.
posted by feets at 3:10 AM on November 7, 2014
Best answer: If he's willing to kill himself, he's willing to kill you.
I'm not trying to scare you, but everything you've written about your husband is a huge, enormous, gigantic red flag. He's verbally abusing you and you shouldn't brush that off since he seems to be escalating his abuse now that he's isolated you. Right now he's conditioning you to accept being abused. The longer you stay, the harder it will be for you to leave.
You seem to know this isn't right but you love him so you want to make it work. But you can't. You can't fix him, only he can - and he's not doing that. You have to accept that the only thing you can change is whether or not you stay in this situation. For your own safety and your dog's safety, it's important that you listen to your instincts and leave as soon as possible.
It honestly doesn't matter why your husband is behaving this way, whatever the cause, the result is the same: he's verbally abusing you and he may escalate to physical or sexual abuse. There's also a very real chance he may kill you. This is not hyperbole, up to 38% of all women murdered are killed by an intimate partner.
Women are also often killed by their partner during an argument. While you may not be participating in these "blowups", for your husband they serve the same function as an argument and your presence while they're going on is very, very dangerous for you.
Call your family and friends and tell them this is going on. They care about you and I'm sure they'll help you get away from him if you let them know you need help. You don't deserve this and I'm sorry it's happening. I know it's frightening and confusing but try to be remember that you deserve to not be abused and you have the right to protect yourself and your dog. You have the right to leave. Staying with him right now is not safe. You're not imagining things, you're not wrong, you're not oversensitive or a b-word or anything else he's said. You are a human being, you deserve respect, you deserve to be loved.
If you have a vehicle, grab what you can, get your dog and go. If you can safely do so, gather everything you would need if you had to start your life over again (because that's a definite possibility here). Things like important documents (social security card, birth certificate, marriage license, lease/mortgage, car lease, etc.), clothes, prescriptions, computers/tablets/pdas/phones.
Make sure you have money - if you have joint accounts, withdraw as much money as you think you'll need (maybe even all of it). Don't back down from doing this because he may try to lash out at you by withdrawing the money himself so you don't have any funds to get away from him. If you can, make sure to log out of any computers or devices you leave behind, as well as erase your logins/passwords and clear your histories. When you have time later, make sure you block him on Facebook, etc. so he can't harass you.
Don't let feelings of isolation get the better of you. You have options. You don't have to stay. If you're still in Nevada and want help figuring things out by talking to someone in person or on the phone, check out one of these groups:
Nevada Network Against Domestic Violence
Safe Nest
NEVADA: Domestic Violence Resources
You can memail me if you want to talk. Be safe.
posted by i feel possessed at 5:06 AM on November 7, 2014 [23 favorites]
I'm not trying to scare you, but everything you've written about your husband is a huge, enormous, gigantic red flag. He's verbally abusing you and you shouldn't brush that off since he seems to be escalating his abuse now that he's isolated you. Right now he's conditioning you to accept being abused. The longer you stay, the harder it will be for you to leave.
You seem to know this isn't right but you love him so you want to make it work. But you can't. You can't fix him, only he can - and he's not doing that. You have to accept that the only thing you can change is whether or not you stay in this situation. For your own safety and your dog's safety, it's important that you listen to your instincts and leave as soon as possible.
It honestly doesn't matter why your husband is behaving this way, whatever the cause, the result is the same: he's verbally abusing you and he may escalate to physical or sexual abuse. There's also a very real chance he may kill you. This is not hyperbole, up to 38% of all women murdered are killed by an intimate partner.
Women are also often killed by their partner during an argument. While you may not be participating in these "blowups", for your husband they serve the same function as an argument and your presence while they're going on is very, very dangerous for you.
Call your family and friends and tell them this is going on. They care about you and I'm sure they'll help you get away from him if you let them know you need help. You don't deserve this and I'm sorry it's happening. I know it's frightening and confusing but try to be remember that you deserve to not be abused and you have the right to protect yourself and your dog. You have the right to leave. Staying with him right now is not safe. You're not imagining things, you're not wrong, you're not oversensitive or a b-word or anything else he's said. You are a human being, you deserve respect, you deserve to be loved.
If you have a vehicle, grab what you can, get your dog and go. If you can safely do so, gather everything you would need if you had to start your life over again (because that's a definite possibility here). Things like important documents (social security card, birth certificate, marriage license, lease/mortgage, car lease, etc.), clothes, prescriptions, computers/tablets/pdas/phones.
Make sure you have money - if you have joint accounts, withdraw as much money as you think you'll need (maybe even all of it). Don't back down from doing this because he may try to lash out at you by withdrawing the money himself so you don't have any funds to get away from him. If you can, make sure to log out of any computers or devices you leave behind, as well as erase your logins/passwords and clear your histories. When you have time later, make sure you block him on Facebook, etc. so he can't harass you.
Don't let feelings of isolation get the better of you. You have options. You don't have to stay. If you're still in Nevada and want help figuring things out by talking to someone in person or on the phone, check out one of these groups:
Nevada Network Against Domestic Violence
Safe Nest
NEVADA: Domestic Violence Resources
You can memail me if you want to talk. Be safe.
posted by i feel possessed at 5:06 AM on November 7, 2014 [23 favorites]
Was / is your husband an alcoholic? Drunk friend says bad things; your husband doesn't remember and is now having rages. Is he drinking?
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Setting boundaries on how you'll be talked to (immediately leaving during the rages) would be one place to start. So sorry...
posted by salvia at 9:53 AM on November 7, 2014
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Setting boundaries on how you'll be talked to (immediately leaving during the rages) would be one place to start. So sorry...
posted by salvia at 9:53 AM on November 7, 2014
Also, Nthing the suggestions to look at medication side effects.
But still. As the "Why Does He Do That" book above points out, your husband probably doesn't go into a raging tirade uncontrollably against his boss, against police officers... there's often a component of picking and choosing time and place; this reveals an inner belief that it's at least somewhat okay to have a verbal tirade at you, and that set of thoughts and beliefs is part of what's scary.
posted by salvia at 10:05 AM on November 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
But still. As the "Why Does He Do That" book above points out, your husband probably doesn't go into a raging tirade uncontrollably against his boss, against police officers... there's often a component of picking and choosing time and place; this reveals an inner belief that it's at least somewhat okay to have a verbal tirade at you, and that set of thoughts and beliefs is part of what's scary.
posted by salvia at 10:05 AM on November 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Here's an exercise you can do:
Imagine that you are in a healthy, loving, respectful marriage where you don't fear your husband.
Read your original post, pretending it was written by a complete stranger.
Sit down and write a response. What would you say to this woman?
posted by LauraJ at 10:20 AM on November 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Imagine that you are in a healthy, loving, respectful marriage where you don't fear your husband.
Read your original post, pretending it was written by a complete stranger.
Sit down and write a response. What would you say to this woman?
posted by LauraJ at 10:20 AM on November 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
You ask "How do you move on...?" This is an ambiguous question which could mean, how do you continue the relationship, or how do you end it and move on.
You say he blows up regularly now, but between blow ups, doesn't he recognize something is wrong? I'm assuming you do, but if by "move on" you mean continue the relationship, there's really no way to continue as if nothing is wrong and I'm wondering if he's aware of that or not. If he could be so oblivious as to ignore his friend that night, what else does he ignore?
The only way NOT to DTMFA would require him to accept that something needs to be fixed and if he doesn't realize that, and you can't get him to see that, I see no solution in which you stay together.
You say he started therapy recently--I'm wondering if this could be a side effect of that.
posted by Obscure Reference at 11:49 AM on November 7, 2014
You say he blows up regularly now, but between blow ups, doesn't he recognize something is wrong? I'm assuming you do, but if by "move on" you mean continue the relationship, there's really no way to continue as if nothing is wrong and I'm wondering if he's aware of that or not. If he could be so oblivious as to ignore his friend that night, what else does he ignore?
The only way NOT to DTMFA would require him to accept that something needs to be fixed and if he doesn't realize that, and you can't get him to see that, I see no solution in which you stay together.
You say he started therapy recently--I'm wondering if this could be a side effect of that.
posted by Obscure Reference at 11:49 AM on November 7, 2014
Best answer: He told me I was a horrible b**** that was just like his ex-wife. He said I talked out of both sides of my mouth and that I was a two-faced b**** just like she was. He said that he lived with a horrible person who pulled sh** like that for 12 years and that he just wasn't going to do it anymore.
Since I met him, he always made a point of telling me that he was so crazy about me because I was nothing like his ex wife. (Until that night, and that's partly why it was so shocking.)
He was in therapy for issues with his ex long before we met. He just started therapy again a couple of weeks ago.
He's telling you now that you're just like his ex-wife, because he's going to start treating you just like he treated his ex-wife, and if you stand up for yourself then you're"pulling sh**" like "a two-faced b**** just like she was."
This is him TELLING you how it's going to be. The literal words he spoke to you, coupled with his complete lack of concern for the hateful misogynistic invective directed at you by his friend, his lack of remorse for allowing his friend to verbally abuse and threaten you in your own home, and especially the frightening abusive blowups that he himself is directing at you now... this says to me that he has found a proxy for his ex-wife in you, and now you will bear all the hatred and anger he has for her.
There has to be more to this than you've said in your OP. palomar pointed out something very important, I think - why didn't any of his friends come to his birthday party, aside from this one guy that you invited on his behalf, who turned out to be a disgusting, possibly dangerous creep? You say that you moved to this new city together fairly recently, and have no friends close by to stay with... yet your friends all came to your birthday party, so where were his buddies? How much do you really know about your husband's history? Let me guess... in the divorce, all of their mutual friends sided with his ex-wife? Or does he have a track record of being unable to make and maintain friendships? Why might that be?
AppleTurnover also made a good point that being drunk only loosens inhibitions, it doesn't turn you into an entirely different person. If he thinks so poorly of women when he's drunk, he likely feels the same way sober, though he may know better than to speak his views in the company of others. The fact that he is also good friends with a womanizing creep (and is still friends with him?) is a bad sign. Has he spoken to Mr. R. since the party to address his behavior? Has he asked Mr. R. to apologize to you? It seems that for your husband, calling a woman a c*** is an acceptable way to behave, and now he is showing you the same disrespect.
Or maybe he has a fast-growing brain tumor and his life is in great peril.
Whatever the reason, your husband is unstable, is abusing and threatening you, and is hinting at escalating his behavior to violence. You need to get out before you're hurt, or even worse, before you succumb to his abuse and are gaslighted into thinking that he's entitled to treat you this way. Please make use of the suggested resources for Domestic Violence support in the comments above. You need to take care of yourself before you can even begin to help him. Keep us updated, this is one of the scariest AskMe's I've ever read and I'm scared for you.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:03 PM on November 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
Since I met him, he always made a point of telling me that he was so crazy about me because I was nothing like his ex wife. (Until that night, and that's partly why it was so shocking.)
He was in therapy for issues with his ex long before we met. He just started therapy again a couple of weeks ago.
He's telling you now that you're just like his ex-wife, because he's going to start treating you just like he treated his ex-wife, and if you stand up for yourself then you're"pulling sh**" like "a two-faced b**** just like she was."
This is him TELLING you how it's going to be. The literal words he spoke to you, coupled with his complete lack of concern for the hateful misogynistic invective directed at you by his friend, his lack of remorse for allowing his friend to verbally abuse and threaten you in your own home, and especially the frightening abusive blowups that he himself is directing at you now... this says to me that he has found a proxy for his ex-wife in you, and now you will bear all the hatred and anger he has for her.
There has to be more to this than you've said in your OP. palomar pointed out something very important, I think - why didn't any of his friends come to his birthday party, aside from this one guy that you invited on his behalf, who turned out to be a disgusting, possibly dangerous creep? You say that you moved to this new city together fairly recently, and have no friends close by to stay with... yet your friends all came to your birthday party, so where were his buddies? How much do you really know about your husband's history? Let me guess... in the divorce, all of their mutual friends sided with his ex-wife? Or does he have a track record of being unable to make and maintain friendships? Why might that be?
AppleTurnover also made a good point that being drunk only loosens inhibitions, it doesn't turn you into an entirely different person. If he thinks so poorly of women when he's drunk, he likely feels the same way sober, though he may know better than to speak his views in the company of others. The fact that he is also good friends with a womanizing creep (and is still friends with him?) is a bad sign. Has he spoken to Mr. R. since the party to address his behavior? Has he asked Mr. R. to apologize to you? It seems that for your husband, calling a woman a c*** is an acceptable way to behave, and now he is showing you the same disrespect.
Or maybe he has a fast-growing brain tumor and his life is in great peril.
Whatever the reason, your husband is unstable, is abusing and threatening you, and is hinting at escalating his behavior to violence. You need to get out before you're hurt, or even worse, before you succumb to his abuse and are gaslighted into thinking that he's entitled to treat you this way. Please make use of the suggested resources for Domestic Violence support in the comments above. You need to take care of yourself before you can even begin to help him. Keep us updated, this is one of the scariest AskMe's I've ever read and I'm scared for you.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:03 PM on November 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
Hey, just a clarification for everyone: the party happened before they moved. The OP specifically mentions the party took place in their home, which was full of packed boxes for their move later in the week. So all the people mentioned, except OP and husband, are in town A, while OP and husband are now in town B.
posted by WidgetAlley at 12:07 PM on November 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by WidgetAlley at 12:07 PM on November 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
Thanks for the clarification, WidgetAlley... that makes it all the more strange that OP's husband invited no one to his birthday party (or none of his friends could make it?), especially since they were about to move away. I know I would definitely make a point of attending a party hosted by friends who would soon be leaving.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:34 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by keep it under cover at 12:34 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
Would be good to get an update from chatelaine just to hear that something is happening one way or the other and that she's ok.
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:54 PM on November 7, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:54 PM on November 7, 2014 [9 favorites]
this is one of the scariest AskMe's I've ever read and I'm scared for you.
Like five of chatelaine's previous AskMe's are skirting around the edge of this sort of stuff in one way or the other and it's all culminated in this one, so yeah, pretty scary.
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:58 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
Like five of chatelaine's previous AskMe's are skirting around the edge of this sort of stuff in one way or the other and it's all culminated in this one, so yeah, pretty scary.
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:58 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
With respect, chatelaine, reading back through your previous questions is illuminating.
You've been dancing as fast as you can since the beginning of your relationship with your husband, talking the relationship up, making a huge case for what an amazing guy he is, how much everybody likes him, what a great person he is and how many friends he has, and then....you have a birthday party days before you move out of state and exactly ONE of his friends comes, and that friend throws a huge raging drunken fit and calls you a cunt?
What is it in your life that's preventing you from being honest with yourself about what this guy really is?
Why do you have so little faith in yourself? Why are you so determined to make this relationship your love ideal, when it's clear from this and your other questions this man and this relationship are not what they appear?
You can be with someone who makes you feel like your best self, who doesn't scare you, who doesn't make you doubt yourself constantly. Who treasures you and makes you feel cherished, and in whom you can have absolute faith.
You know something about your husband doesn't add up.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 1:53 PM on November 7, 2014 [11 favorites]
You've been dancing as fast as you can since the beginning of your relationship with your husband, talking the relationship up, making a huge case for what an amazing guy he is, how much everybody likes him, what a great person he is and how many friends he has, and then....you have a birthday party days before you move out of state and exactly ONE of his friends comes, and that friend throws a huge raging drunken fit and calls you a cunt?
What is it in your life that's preventing you from being honest with yourself about what this guy really is?
Why do you have so little faith in yourself? Why are you so determined to make this relationship your love ideal, when it's clear from this and your other questions this man and this relationship are not what they appear?
You can be with someone who makes you feel like your best self, who doesn't scare you, who doesn't make you doubt yourself constantly. Who treasures you and makes you feel cherished, and in whom you can have absolute faith.
You know something about your husband doesn't add up.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 1:53 PM on November 7, 2014 [11 favorites]
I, too, have been concerned about you all day and peeked back through your old asks and this guy's whole deal is not adding up. I'd not be surprised to learn that much of what your husband has told you about himself and his life before you is a lie. I also don't want to be alarmist as you have quite enough to contend with, but these are the questions I'd ask myself:
In one question he is the selfless hero in a divorce with a crazy irresponsible ex...is it ever really that simple? Are you sure his ex was the one who was irresponsible with money? Did you see the paperwork on that, or is this all coming from him?
In another question, he has a million friends and he is always on the go, having appointments with his million friends who love him so much they take him out all the time. Yet on his last birthday in town, nobody shows. Are you sure his accounting of his time with these "friends" is accurate? Could that be a cover for some other activity?
Did his weird interaction with the woman friend his ex had forbidden him to see ever get resolved? Was his response kind and forthcoming? Do any little details still not sit right with you to this day?
Whose idea was the move out of state, and why?
Do you make a significantly greater amount of money than he does?
What do you know about the awful pig friend who came to your party-- even before this rant, others sensed something was off and were frightened of him. Does he have a criminal record?
Are you sure he's even in therapy? Does he tell his therapist about the suicide threats, or are those just a charade to control you and put violence on the table?
In general, now that you think of it, do any of the details of his life just not add up for you? Anything unusual stick out? Anything you can't explain?
Are there weapons in your home?
I'm legitimately concerned for you. 100% certain he is badly abusive. Now I'm afraid there might be another sinister element to this that makes leaving all the more urgent.
Don't confront him with any of this or let on you are even questioning anything.
Read all the books and get all the counseling after you are far from him. When you're safe.
posted by kapers at 2:22 PM on November 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
In one question he is the selfless hero in a divorce with a crazy irresponsible ex...is it ever really that simple? Are you sure his ex was the one who was irresponsible with money? Did you see the paperwork on that, or is this all coming from him?
In another question, he has a million friends and he is always on the go, having appointments with his million friends who love him so much they take him out all the time. Yet on his last birthday in town, nobody shows. Are you sure his accounting of his time with these "friends" is accurate? Could that be a cover for some other activity?
Did his weird interaction with the woman friend his ex had forbidden him to see ever get resolved? Was his response kind and forthcoming? Do any little details still not sit right with you to this day?
Whose idea was the move out of state, and why?
Do you make a significantly greater amount of money than he does?
What do you know about the awful pig friend who came to your party-- even before this rant, others sensed something was off and were frightened of him. Does he have a criminal record?
Are you sure he's even in therapy? Does he tell his therapist about the suicide threats, or are those just a charade to control you and put violence on the table?
In general, now that you think of it, do any of the details of his life just not add up for you? Anything unusual stick out? Anything you can't explain?
Are there weapons in your home?
I'm legitimately concerned for you. 100% certain he is badly abusive. Now I'm afraid there might be another sinister element to this that makes leaving all the more urgent.
Don't confront him with any of this or let on you are even questioning anything.
Read all the books and get all the counseling after you are far from him. When you're safe.
posted by kapers at 2:22 PM on November 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
Athanassiel: The lack of remorse thing is puzzling. Usually abusers are very good at wooing you back after a flare-up or particularly awful session, to make you second-guess yourself. See, he's really a good person. He really cares about me. Look how sweet he is, it was just a random thing. It won't happen again. So the fact that he's not doing this is different from the normal pattern - or is he doing it and you can see through it for the insincere thing it is?
Just to elaborate this, one of my best friends... who is currently in jail for assaulting his ex(wow, i never thought i'd ever write that sentence) wasn't like this. He just had anger problems, especially when drunk. He'd just do this kind of stuff and then either realize he was out of line later, or just think not much of it.
He never did the gaslighty see-it-was-just-a-blip thing, he just did it and then acted like it didn't happen pretty much.
I'm firmly on the "it doesn't really matter why he did this, get out" side. And i don't think him not showing remorse or trying to coddle you back in to thinking it was just a blip is any sign that this is some kind of horrendous brain tumor or health thing. He probably just seriously sees nothing wrong with it and doesn't want to think about it.
Or, maybe he was so fucked up that he doesn't even remember doing it and is even more divorced from it in his mind. Either way, this isn't like off the chart behavior for an aggressive asshole.
posted by emptythought at 2:25 PM on November 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
Just to elaborate this, one of my best friends... who is currently in jail for assaulting his ex(wow, i never thought i'd ever write that sentence) wasn't like this. He just had anger problems, especially when drunk. He'd just do this kind of stuff and then either realize he was out of line later, or just think not much of it.
He never did the gaslighty see-it-was-just-a-blip thing, he just did it and then acted like it didn't happen pretty much.
I'm firmly on the "it doesn't really matter why he did this, get out" side. And i don't think him not showing remorse or trying to coddle you back in to thinking it was just a blip is any sign that this is some kind of horrendous brain tumor or health thing. He probably just seriously sees nothing wrong with it and doesn't want to think about it.
Or, maybe he was so fucked up that he doesn't even remember doing it and is even more divorced from it in his mind. Either way, this isn't like off the chart behavior for an aggressive asshole.
posted by emptythought at 2:25 PM on November 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
Chatelaine,
It is very easy to give advice to another person, especially over the internet. It is not always easy for that person to accept or implement the advice.
Please read the responses on this page very carefully. They are not advice; they are warnings.
Best case scenario: you will live with your husband for another forty or whatever years - and for all those years you will live in fear, you will be degraded, disrespected, and threatened, you will be in and out of therapy, and you will be miserable.
Worst case scenario: he will kill you.
The longer you stay, the harder it will be to leave. Please get out.
posted by LauraJ at 3:37 PM on November 7, 2014 [9 favorites]
It is very easy to give advice to another person, especially over the internet. It is not always easy for that person to accept or implement the advice.
Please read the responses on this page very carefully. They are not advice; they are warnings.
Best case scenario: you will live with your husband for another forty or whatever years - and for all those years you will live in fear, you will be degraded, disrespected, and threatened, you will be in and out of therapy, and you will be miserable.
Worst case scenario: he will kill you.
The longer you stay, the harder it will be to leave. Please get out.
posted by LauraJ at 3:37 PM on November 7, 2014 [9 favorites]
I just wanted to say - it's really good that you know something's up, enough to have posted this and sought help. don't ignore your instincts.
if you happen to have moved to my area - I have extra space and an air mattress if you need it.
please update if you can.
posted by ghostbikes at 4:29 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
if you happen to have moved to my area - I have extra space and an air mattress if you need it.
please update if you can.
posted by ghostbikes at 4:29 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
This is a clear cut case of DTMFA if I've ever seen one?
posted by mermily at 4:46 PM on November 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by mermily at 4:46 PM on November 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Hey, since WidgetAlley pointed out that you're no longer in the state in your profile, you might find some local MeFites willing to help. If you're around LA, I'm sure we could set something up. There are solid communities a lot of other places too.
(Also, if you get a chance, just comment to let us know that you're OK. We had one member here killed by her ex a couple years back.)
posted by klangklangston at 5:35 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
(Also, if you get a chance, just comment to let us know that you're OK. We had one member here killed by her ex a couple years back.)
posted by klangklangston at 5:35 PM on November 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
emptythought, fair enough. Just because my abusive ex did that a lot and it's a common pattern doesn't make it universal. Regardless, the situation is dangerous, chatelaine, and getting yourself out of it is really really important. Please let us know you're okay.
posted by Athanassiel at 6:40 PM on November 7, 2014
posted by Athanassiel at 6:40 PM on November 7, 2014
Response by poster: I wanted to check in and let everyone know that I am safe and doing okay. I am a bit overwhelmed by all of the thoughtful responses I've received here and would like to reply and address some things that have been brought up when it's not so late. I will check in soon, I promise.
posted by chatelaine at 2:07 AM on November 8, 2014 [22 favorites]
posted by chatelaine at 2:07 AM on November 8, 2014 [22 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm back.
We were in the Reno/Sparks area; we moved to Las Vegas/Henderson. It's about an 8-hour drive one way. The road between them goes through some *really* desolate areas.
The dog is actually his; he had the dog from long before he met me. I have three rabbits (my pride and joy!). If I left, I would have to find a way to take them, too, because I will not leave them behind. As nice as it would be to remove the dog from there with me when I go, it just might not be possible. And it could trigger something really, really REALLY bad.
We moved down here because of his work. Due to this situation he found a really great job down here. He wasn't going to take the job, but I did push for it because I felt it would be a positive move for both of us- in lots of ways. Unfortunately, I had to leave my dream job as a museum director to come down here. I am looking for something else down here.
Yes, I know for sure he is in therapy. He is going to the same center at the university down here that I am. We even sit down and discuss some of our therapy sessions. He is learning a lot more about himself, and that his upbringing has a great deal to do with all this.
I'm usually the kind of girl that says, "This situation is too much BS/heartbreak/drama... I'm out!", but this is a bit different. It is not so simple to end a marriage- either in concept or in reality. There are a multitude of considerations that come into play (community property state, for one... ugh). Those things make it harder.
Obviously, posting something here on MeFi has been a long time coming. I have told him that I want a break, for about a month or so. I brought it up again last night. He feels sorry for making me feel like I need to get away from him. He apologizes for things all the time, yet doesn't do anything to genuinely improve. The good behaviors and the bad come and go like the flip of a switch. It's completely disorienting.
I am so moved by the thoughtfulness of "complete internet strangers" here. I did not expect the outpouring of sentiments, the offers for couches, the MeMails. I have felt so alone in this up until now, and I thank everyone who has taken the time to express something. You are the most amazing people ever.
posted by chatelaine at 9:38 AM on November 8, 2014 [20 favorites]
We were in the Reno/Sparks area; we moved to Las Vegas/Henderson. It's about an 8-hour drive one way. The road between them goes through some *really* desolate areas.
The dog is actually his; he had the dog from long before he met me. I have three rabbits (my pride and joy!). If I left, I would have to find a way to take them, too, because I will not leave them behind. As nice as it would be to remove the dog from there with me when I go, it just might not be possible. And it could trigger something really, really REALLY bad.
We moved down here because of his work. Due to this situation he found a really great job down here. He wasn't going to take the job, but I did push for it because I felt it would be a positive move for both of us- in lots of ways. Unfortunately, I had to leave my dream job as a museum director to come down here. I am looking for something else down here.
Yes, I know for sure he is in therapy. He is going to the same center at the university down here that I am. We even sit down and discuss some of our therapy sessions. He is learning a lot more about himself, and that his upbringing has a great deal to do with all this.
I'm usually the kind of girl that says, "This situation is too much BS/heartbreak/drama... I'm out!", but this is a bit different. It is not so simple to end a marriage- either in concept or in reality. There are a multitude of considerations that come into play (community property state, for one... ugh). Those things make it harder.
Obviously, posting something here on MeFi has been a long time coming. I have told him that I want a break, for about a month or so. I brought it up again last night. He feels sorry for making me feel like I need to get away from him. He apologizes for things all the time, yet doesn't do anything to genuinely improve. The good behaviors and the bad come and go like the flip of a switch. It's completely disorienting.
I am so moved by the thoughtfulness of "complete internet strangers" here. I did not expect the outpouring of sentiments, the offers for couches, the MeMails. I have felt so alone in this up until now, and I thank everyone who has taken the time to express something. You are the most amazing people ever.
posted by chatelaine at 9:38 AM on November 8, 2014 [20 favorites]
Best answer: I'm so glad you're feeling supported! Please know that you have lots of people in your life who are likely able and willing to help you, both online and off.
I do want to address this, as someone whose former abuser was in therapy and ended up using it as an excuse for why he abused me, rather than using it as a catalyst for changing his behavior:
Yes, I know for sure he is in therapy. He is going to the same center at the university down here that I am. We even sit down and discuss some of our therapy sessions. He is learning a lot more about himself, and that his upbringing has a great deal to do with all this.
As others have mentioned, the book Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft is an amazing resource. Bancroft is a therapist who's worked extensively with abusive partners.
This is from that book, and I found it very valuable:
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. I really recommend reading the Bancroft book to get a good framework in your mind about the sorts of behaviors that indicate actual change versus the behaviors that are simply manipulations that continue the abuse. It's hard to track any progress without knowing what to look for.
We're rooting for you (obviously!).
posted by jaguar at 10:05 AM on November 8, 2014 [30 favorites]
I do want to address this, as someone whose former abuser was in therapy and ended up using it as an excuse for why he abused me, rather than using it as a catalyst for changing his behavior:
Yes, I know for sure he is in therapy. He is going to the same center at the university down here that I am. We even sit down and discuss some of our therapy sessions. He is learning a lot more about himself, and that his upbringing has a great deal to do with all this.
As others have mentioned, the book Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft is an amazing resource. Bancroft is a therapist who's worked extensively with abusive partners.
This is from that book, and I found it very valuable:
The more psychotherapy a client of mine has participated in, the more impossible I usually find it is to work with him. The highly “therapized” abuser tends to be slick, condescending, and manipulative. He uses the psychological concepts he has learned to dissect his partner’s flaws and dismiss her perceptions of abuse. He takes the responsibility for nothing that he does, he moves in a world where there are only unfortunate dynamics, miscommunications, symbolic acts. He expects to be rewarded for his emotional openness, handled gingerly because of his “vulnerability”, colluded with in skirting the damage he has done, and congratulated for his insight. Many years ago, a violent abuser in my program shared the following with us: “From working in therapy on my issues about anger toward my mother, I realized that when I punched my wife, it wasn’t really her I was hitting. It was my mother!” He sat back, ready for us to express our approval of his self-awareness. My colleague peered through his glasses at the man, unimpressed by his revelation. “No,” he said, “you were hitting your wife.”He also writes the following about couples therapy, which I think is applicable to both couples and individual therapy for the abusive partner:
I have yet to meet an abuser who has made any meaningful and lasting changes in his behavior toward female partners through therapy, regardless of how much “insight” — most of it false — that he may have gained. The fact is that if an abuser finds a particularly skilled therapist and if the therapy is especially successful, when he is finished he will be A HAPPY, WELL-ADJUSTED ABUSER — good news for him, perhaps, but not such good news for his partner. Psychotherapy can be very valuable for the issues it is devised to address, but partner abuse is not one of them; an abusive man needs to be in a specialized program.
Couples counseling sends the abuser and the abused woman the wrong message. The abuser learns that his partner is “pushing his buttons” and “touching him off” and that she needs to adjust her behavior to avoid getting him so upset. This is precisely what he has been claiming all along. Change in abusers comes only from the reverse process, from completely stepping out of the notion that his partner plays any role in causing his abuse of her. An abuser also has to stop focusing on his feelings and his partner’s behavior, and look instead at her feelings and his behavior. Couples counseling allows him to stay stuck in the former. In fact, to some therapists, feelings are all that matters, and reality is more or less irrelevant. In this context, a therapist may turn to you and say, “But HE feels abused by YOU too.” Unfortunately, the more an abusive man is convinced that his grievances are more or less equal to yours, the less the chance that he will ever overcome his attitudes.I urge to at least keep that in the back of your mind as you move forward. Insight into one's childhood dynamics is great, if it leads to positive change in the present. If it becomes one more excuse as to why you need to cater to his needs and why it's understandable that he acts abusively when you don't, then it's just one more tool he's using to control you.
The message to you from couples counselng is: “You can make your abusive partner behave better toward you by changing how YOU behave toward HIM.” Such a message is, frankly, fraudulent. ABUSE is NOT caused by bad relationship dynamics. You can’t manage your partner’s abusiveness by changing your behavior, but he wants you to think that you can. He says or leads you to believe, that “if you stop doing the things that upset me, and take better care of my needs, I will become a nonabusive partner.” It never materializes. And even if it worked, even if you could stop his abusiveness by catering to his every whim, is that a healthy way to live? If the way you behave in the relationship is a response to the threat of abuse, are you a voluntary participant? If you have issues you would like to work on with a couples counselor, wait until your partner has been COMPLETELY ABUSE-FREE for two years. Then you might be able to work on some of the problems that truly are mutual ones.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. I really recommend reading the Bancroft book to get a good framework in your mind about the sorts of behaviors that indicate actual change versus the behaviors that are simply manipulations that continue the abuse. It's hard to track any progress without knowing what to look for.
We're rooting for you (obviously!).
posted by jaguar at 10:05 AM on November 8, 2014 [30 favorites]
I absolutely agree with jaguar but I have seen a number of abusers change. (Not through therapy, though. The ones I know are in Al-anon, which is a 12 step group. I'm sure there are others- those just happen to be the ones I know personally.)
posted by small_ruminant at 10:18 AM on November 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by small_ruminant at 10:18 AM on November 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
However, there is a pattern here of him being the blameless victim, over and over. Even him losing is job is weird unless they were trying to downsize in general. It is a PITA to hire new employees and unless they wanted him gone they would have figured out a way to keep him.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:23 AM on November 8, 2014
posted by small_ruminant at 10:23 AM on November 8, 2014
So, in order to drive from Las Vegas to Reno you would have to drive 8 hours through desert. I wouldn't want to do that alone, nor would I want to do it in a car that he had access to before I set off.
There are other ways to travel between those two cities, the simplest being by air, and you can take your rabbits on a domestic flight in the US. BE CAREFUL THOUGH because the ones I've googled require advance notice and health certification and the last thing you want to do is leave a paper trail. You can also go by train or bus, but it would be a very roundabout way (but has the advantage that it would fake him out as to where you'd gone). I agree that you shouldn't drive yourself - I wouldn't.
Are your family in Reno? If so, I suggest going straight to them for asylum, and then calling your old museum and asking them to take you back. If they can't take you, they may be able to help you network into another job in another city. Additionally, if you explain to all your friends you need any old crap job right away just for the stream of income, I'm sure they'll understand and help you figure something out.
posted by tel3path at 10:28 AM on November 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
There are other ways to travel between those two cities, the simplest being by air, and you can take your rabbits on a domestic flight in the US. BE CAREFUL THOUGH because the ones I've googled require advance notice and health certification and the last thing you want to do is leave a paper trail. You can also go by train or bus, but it would be a very roundabout way (but has the advantage that it would fake him out as to where you'd gone). I agree that you shouldn't drive yourself - I wouldn't.
Are your family in Reno? If so, I suggest going straight to them for asylum, and then calling your old museum and asking them to take you back. If they can't take you, they may be able to help you network into another job in another city. Additionally, if you explain to all your friends you need any old crap job right away just for the stream of income, I'm sure they'll understand and help you figure something out.
posted by tel3path at 10:28 AM on November 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: He apologizes for things all the time, yet doesn't do anything to genuinely improve.
People who apologize but do nothing to improve their treatment of you are worried about their feelings, not yours. Your feelings came from somewhere -- from being treated shittily. The only way your feelings will get better is if his treatment of you improves. People who keep saying "I'm sorry...I'm sorry....I'm sorry" while not fixing the problem that made you feel negatively towards them are really saying "Please be considerate of my negative feelings. Understand me. Understand that I feel bad and me feeling bad emotionally is more important to me than you being afraid for your welfare because of my behavior ....etc"
Apologies are mostly not worth diddily. There are two things that are worth something here: 1) Amends of some kind and 2) changes that make it likely this will never happen again and you can feel safe in the future with this person.
Abusers routinely apologize. What they won't do is change.
Having said that, he is in therapy. Change takes time. I personally stayed a long time in a difficult marriage in part because I was convinced that if I walked away and got someone new, it would be a case of "new face, same old crapola." It was important to me personally to understand what piece of the puzzle was his crap, what piece of the puzzle was MY crap and what piece of the puzzle was some alchemical creation of how his stuff and my stuff interacted, perhaps in cases where neither of us was doing something bad, yet you combine his thing and mine and suddenly it is disastrous. And I did not leave until I felt fairly clear on those details and I feel I did the right thing.
So I will suggest that this sentence of yours is something you need to revisit a lot with him/your counselor/your journal/all of the above:
He wasn't going to take the job, but I did push for it because I felt it would be a positive move for both of us- in lots of ways.
He felt forced into it. He is trying to do what you want. You need to give him some credit for that and you need to understand that when people feel forced into something, even it is a net positive, it is a jagged little pill to swallow.
He should work on that in therapy. You should work on that in therapy. The two of you should sort out how each of you feel, whether or not this really is a net positive (or, at least, the lesser evil of the choices you had available to you at the time), what are the hidden costs that are coming to light now that you have moved -- things you absolutely could not have predicted because you can never predict everything. You assess as much information as you can, you make the best decision you can, yet "no plan of battle survives the first engagement." It simply doesn't.
I will suggest that this move and how he felt forced into may be the underlying stressor that led to a possibly not great relationship suddenly turning into a shit show. (I have not read your previous asks. I am not interested in judging you. But comments here, including some of yours, suggest things were not really rosy before this but this is a marked degradation of the situation.)
I am a big believer in the "until death do us part" thing and I think marriage is worth fighting for. So I think trying to stay and trying to work it out is a valid choice, no matter how many internet strangers think you should DTMFA. It is your life. You have to live with the consequences. And you should make the decision that makes sense to you and not worry about the hurt egos of internet strangers who may get ticked off that you did not validate their egos -- including me. Feel free to DTMFA and not worry what I think either. I'm just a stranger on the internet and I don't have to live with the man.
Best of luck in whatever you choose to do here.
posted by Michele in California at 10:34 AM on November 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
People who apologize but do nothing to improve their treatment of you are worried about their feelings, not yours. Your feelings came from somewhere -- from being treated shittily. The only way your feelings will get better is if his treatment of you improves. People who keep saying "I'm sorry...I'm sorry....I'm sorry" while not fixing the problem that made you feel negatively towards them are really saying "Please be considerate of my negative feelings. Understand me. Understand that I feel bad and me feeling bad emotionally is more important to me than you being afraid for your welfare because of my behavior ....etc"
Apologies are mostly not worth diddily. There are two things that are worth something here: 1) Amends of some kind and 2) changes that make it likely this will never happen again and you can feel safe in the future with this person.
Abusers routinely apologize. What they won't do is change.
Having said that, he is in therapy. Change takes time. I personally stayed a long time in a difficult marriage in part because I was convinced that if I walked away and got someone new, it would be a case of "new face, same old crapola." It was important to me personally to understand what piece of the puzzle was his crap, what piece of the puzzle was MY crap and what piece of the puzzle was some alchemical creation of how his stuff and my stuff interacted, perhaps in cases where neither of us was doing something bad, yet you combine his thing and mine and suddenly it is disastrous. And I did not leave until I felt fairly clear on those details and I feel I did the right thing.
So I will suggest that this sentence of yours is something you need to revisit a lot with him/your counselor/your journal/all of the above:
He wasn't going to take the job, but I did push for it because I felt it would be a positive move for both of us- in lots of ways.
He felt forced into it. He is trying to do what you want. You need to give him some credit for that and you need to understand that when people feel forced into something, even it is a net positive, it is a jagged little pill to swallow.
He should work on that in therapy. You should work on that in therapy. The two of you should sort out how each of you feel, whether or not this really is a net positive (or, at least, the lesser evil of the choices you had available to you at the time), what are the hidden costs that are coming to light now that you have moved -- things you absolutely could not have predicted because you can never predict everything. You assess as much information as you can, you make the best decision you can, yet "no plan of battle survives the first engagement." It simply doesn't.
I will suggest that this move and how he felt forced into may be the underlying stressor that led to a possibly not great relationship suddenly turning into a shit show. (I have not read your previous asks. I am not interested in judging you. But comments here, including some of yours, suggest things were not really rosy before this but this is a marked degradation of the situation.)
I am a big believer in the "until death do us part" thing and I think marriage is worth fighting for. So I think trying to stay and trying to work it out is a valid choice, no matter how many internet strangers think you should DTMFA. It is your life. You have to live with the consequences. And you should make the decision that makes sense to you and not worry about the hurt egos of internet strangers who may get ticked off that you did not validate their egos -- including me. Feel free to DTMFA and not worry what I think either. I'm just a stranger on the internet and I don't have to live with the man.
Best of luck in whatever you choose to do here.
posted by Michele in California at 10:34 AM on November 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
However, there is a pattern here of him being the blameless victim, over and over. Even him losing is job is weird unless they were trying to downsize in general.
Yeah... another thing to keep in the back of your mind. Your husband seems to be involved in a lot of seemingly inexplicably hostile relationships in many different areas of his life. Ex-wife mysteriously cutting him off, friends mysteriously not invited to his birthday party, bosses mysteriously backstabbing him to get him fired. Taken together with his current treatment of you, these are major major major red flags that he has serious lying, anger, and/or substance-abuse problems.
Please keep yourself safe, and if I were you, even if you never want to leave, I'd talk to a lawyer about how to maybe set up some safeguards to make sure your half of your community property stays safe. (It may be as simple as separate bank accounts.) Something is really not adding up here, and I hope you continue proceeding with caution.
posted by jaguar at 10:37 AM on November 8, 2014 [10 favorites]
Yeah... another thing to keep in the back of your mind. Your husband seems to be involved in a lot of seemingly inexplicably hostile relationships in many different areas of his life. Ex-wife mysteriously cutting him off, friends mysteriously not invited to his birthday party, bosses mysteriously backstabbing him to get him fired. Taken together with his current treatment of you, these are major major major red flags that he has serious lying, anger, and/or substance-abuse problems.
Please keep yourself safe, and if I were you, even if you never want to leave, I'd talk to a lawyer about how to maybe set up some safeguards to make sure your half of your community property stays safe. (It may be as simple as separate bank accounts.) Something is really not adding up here, and I hope you continue proceeding with caution.
posted by jaguar at 10:37 AM on November 8, 2014 [10 favorites]
Best answer: I'm usually the kind of girl that says, "This situation is too much BS/heartbreak/drama... I'm out!", but this is a bit different. It is not so simple to end a marriage- either in concept or in reality. There are a multitude of considerations that come into play (community property state, for one... ugh). Those things make it harder.
Believe me, I know all about the difficulty of divorce. Let's slow down and take this one step at a time. You have said you want to take a break. Then take it. It's not a divorce (not yet anyway). Drive/fly/bus up to your old town. Crash at a friend's. Can't take the bunnies? Find someone at your old vet to board them.
When you get there, talk to a lawyer, and consider your options. Just see how you feel being away from him.
You have options. Beware the sunk-cost fallacy. This is your life. Is this how you want to live it? Even if you had to walk away with just the shirt on your back, wouldn't it be worth it to have that sense of peace and calm in your life again?
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 11:35 AM on November 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
Believe me, I know all about the difficulty of divorce. Let's slow down and take this one step at a time. You have said you want to take a break. Then take it. It's not a divorce (not yet anyway). Drive/fly/bus up to your old town. Crash at a friend's. Can't take the bunnies? Find someone at your old vet to board them.
When you get there, talk to a lawyer, and consider your options. Just see how you feel being away from him.
You have options. Beware the sunk-cost fallacy. This is your life. Is this how you want to live it? Even if you had to walk away with just the shirt on your back, wouldn't it be worth it to have that sense of peace and calm in your life again?
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 11:35 AM on November 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
Let's slow down and take this one step at a time. You have said you want to take a break. Then take it. It's not a divorce
This.
Personally, I'd drive with the rabbits. Let a friend know you're coming and what route you're taking because I assume there's no cell phone coverage there. However, it's not an abandoned road- if something happens to your car you'll be okay. (if you're worried about sabotage, get a mechanic to check the brakes on your way out of town.) Maybe you taking off for a couple weeks will be a wake up call for him. (Also, I'd do it before winter because I'm a winter driving wimp. You're probably not.)
posted by small_ruminant at 12:34 PM on November 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
This.
Personally, I'd drive with the rabbits. Let a friend know you're coming and what route you're taking because I assume there's no cell phone coverage there. However, it's not an abandoned road- if something happens to your car you'll be okay. (if you're worried about sabotage, get a mechanic to check the brakes on your way out of town.) Maybe you taking off for a couple weeks will be a wake up call for him. (Also, I'd do it before winter because I'm a winter driving wimp. You're probably not.)
posted by small_ruminant at 12:34 PM on November 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I also want to add here that, after some retrospective thought, there were certainly signs of something wrong along the way. However, it was difficult to see them for what they were (no blowups back then; he never yelled; no suicidal threats, etc.). BUT the things that were said made me feel like shit. So... yeah.
I meant to mention a little background on the ex-wife. I knew her personally before they divorced. She had a tendency towards extreme "blowups" of her own. She would fly into rages, screaming, throwing things at my husband, hitting him, her own suicide threats... it was really bad. However, I don't buy for one minute that it was a one-way street. Having lived with my hubby for 2.5 yrs now I have learned that he has his own ways of "poking the bear".
My family is in Reno. I'm going up next week. It was supposed to be short trip, but I will think about extending it. He has some family that will be coming down here to visit while I am gone.
There have been lots of good thoughts expressed here, many of which I've had rolling around in my head for the past couple of months. The reinforcement and support I have received over here at MeFi is giving me courage to follow through.
posted by chatelaine at 1:56 PM on November 8, 2014 [31 favorites]
I meant to mention a little background on the ex-wife. I knew her personally before they divorced. She had a tendency towards extreme "blowups" of her own. She would fly into rages, screaming, throwing things at my husband, hitting him, her own suicide threats... it was really bad. However, I don't buy for one minute that it was a one-way street. Having lived with my hubby for 2.5 yrs now I have learned that he has his own ways of "poking the bear".
My family is in Reno. I'm going up next week. It was supposed to be short trip, but I will think about extending it. He has some family that will be coming down here to visit while I am gone.
There have been lots of good thoughts expressed here, many of which I've had rolling around in my head for the past couple of months. The reinforcement and support I have received over here at MeFi is giving me courage to follow through.
posted by chatelaine at 1:56 PM on November 8, 2014 [31 favorites]
Hooray for parents who don't suck! Good luck and have a nice drive. (I love road trips though I have never driven with rabbits.)
posted by small_ruminant at 2:11 PM on November 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by small_ruminant at 2:11 PM on November 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Does he have a history of abusing his dog? Was that literally the first time it ever happened ever? Or had it happened before and has it happened since?
Some people never figure out how to go through life without blaming something else for all their problems. Other people go through their entire life making excuses for real problems that are staring them straight in the eye.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:16 PM on November 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Some people never figure out how to go through life without blaming something else for all their problems. Other people go through their entire life making excuses for real problems that are staring them straight in the eye.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:16 PM on November 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
We're rooting for you to figure things out and find whatever strength you need as you get through this. You deserve to be happy and feel safe. Enjoy your visit home and best wishes!
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:26 PM on November 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:26 PM on November 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
Hey, thanks for checking in to let us know you're okay. Getting some physical and emotional distance so you can think things over seems like a great first step towards getting back to a healthy, sane place-- whatever form that ends up taking for you. You are clearly very brave and very smart and I think I can safely speak for everyone when we say we are very proud of you for taking care of yourself.
posted by WidgetAlley at 6:57 PM on November 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by WidgetAlley at 6:57 PM on November 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
I am a little late to this thread but I would like to add one more voice to the examine his drinking behavior sentiment. This sounds like classic alcoholic rage. You didn't elaborate as to whether he was drinking during the subsequent rages, but that type of rage can come out even during sober moments. It is so hard to tell from the limited facts here but I hope you are discussing this possibility with your counselor. If his drinking is making you uncomfortable you may find some comfort and information at some Al Anon meetings. If this is alcohol or drug related and he can address the problem the good news is that he may then very well get the rage under control and you could see a changed man. Whatever the source, you cannot continue living with him unless he can change this behavior permanently. It will lead to a life of misery and unhappiness for you and perhaps violence.
posted by caddis at 7:29 AM on November 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by caddis at 7:29 AM on November 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by i_am_a_fiesta at 2:40 PM on November 6, 2014 [46 favorites]