Confronting an alcoholic
October 24, 2014 8:02 PM Subscribe
Would I be overstepping my bounds in confronting someone I'm not well-acquainted with about going to rehab?
Here's the situation. I'm close friends with someone whose best friend is basically drinking himself to death. He has been hospitalized several times. I've met this person a few times, and I occasionally receive group emails from him. He's been to rehab at least once before. My friend doesn't know what to do about it, and so will spend hours on the phone talking with him, but won't confront him about the drinking. I feel really bad and helpless, and like I should at least try, futile as it might be. He is a good person, still relatively young, and smart and talented. I hurt for him, and for my friend who is so worried about him. I don't know if sending him an email would help or make things worse. I just hate the thought that if he dies, knowing I stood by and didn't even try to help.
Here's the situation. I'm close friends with someone whose best friend is basically drinking himself to death. He has been hospitalized several times. I've met this person a few times, and I occasionally receive group emails from him. He's been to rehab at least once before. My friend doesn't know what to do about it, and so will spend hours on the phone talking with him, but won't confront him about the drinking. I feel really bad and helpless, and like I should at least try, futile as it might be. He is a good person, still relatively young, and smart and talented. I hurt for him, and for my friend who is so worried about him. I don't know if sending him an email would help or make things worse. I just hate the thought that if he dies, knowing I stood by and didn't even try to help.
Your best response here would be to maybe help your friend into Al-Anon and maybe to go with them. You don't really have any business confronting a relative stranger about their drinking but it sounds like your friends bad boundaries with the drinker might be something you can help them with.
posted by jessamyn at 8:11 PM on October 24, 2014 [36 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 8:11 PM on October 24, 2014 [36 favorites]
Yes, you are overstepping your boundaries. You don't know the guy really well, and it's not your life. He's not even your friend. You know nothing about him firsthand.
posted by discopolo at 8:14 PM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by discopolo at 8:14 PM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
Hearing from you will almost certainly not help. This is a realization he will have to come to on his own.
Donate some money to a local group that provides support for alcoholism (here's an example - I don't know where you're located) or to NIAAA instead.
posted by sockermom at 8:15 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Donate some money to a local group that provides support for alcoholism (here's an example - I don't know where you're located) or to NIAAA instead.
posted by sockermom at 8:15 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Take your friend to Al-Anon. That would be a lovely thing to do.
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:17 PM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:17 PM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
Fuck it, who cares if you're overstepping bounds. Honestly, that even a casual acquaintance can see he's got a Serious Problem may be just the kick in the pants he needs.
posted by notsnot at 8:21 PM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by notsnot at 8:21 PM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
Help your friend stop spending hours of their life on this problem that they have no control over.
The other person knows he has a problem, what is it you think you're going to tell him that he doesn't know?
posted by Lyn Never at 8:26 PM on October 24, 2014 [7 favorites]
The other person knows he has a problem, what is it you think you're going to tell him that he doesn't know?
posted by Lyn Never at 8:26 PM on October 24, 2014 [7 favorites]
He knows he has a problem.
A friend of a friend is not going to help him shed his layers of justifications and other issues. It's not like pointing out to someone that their fly is unzipped, you know?
A friend of mine is in AA and has been sober for nearly a year. Everyone, including him, knew he had a drinking problem for years. He had to be the one to take the next step.
Stay out of it. Take your friend to an Al-Anon meeting.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 8:32 PM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
A friend of a friend is not going to help him shed his layers of justifications and other issues. It's not like pointing out to someone that their fly is unzipped, you know?
A friend of mine is in AA and has been sober for nearly a year. Everyone, including him, knew he had a drinking problem for years. He had to be the one to take the next step.
Stay out of it. Take your friend to an Al-Anon meeting.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 8:32 PM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the replies. I have suggested Al-Anon to my friend, and have even offered to go with him. He has some neurological difficulties (autism spectrum), which I think are impeding his ability to understand the seriousness of the situation. At any rate, he has so far declined to go to Al-Anon. I'm going to keep suggesting it though.
posted by jenh526 at 8:53 PM on October 24, 2014
posted by jenh526 at 8:53 PM on October 24, 2014
Exactly what Lyn Never said.
Also, making this about you helps no one. Help your friend by encouraging less time on the phone and more time in Al-Anon. Really.
posted by whoiam at 8:55 PM on October 24, 2014 [5 favorites]
Also, making this about you helps no one. Help your friend by encouraging less time on the phone and more time in Al-Anon. Really.
posted by whoiam at 8:55 PM on October 24, 2014 [5 favorites]
On preview (I was posting while you replied); if your friend doesn't want to go to Al-Anon, you still can.
posted by whoiam at 8:56 PM on October 24, 2014
posted by whoiam at 8:56 PM on October 24, 2014
Best answer: There are really only two types of people who have any chance of getting through to someone like this: VERY close friends/family members or people with "experience." (I'm including medical training and AA experience here). You do not fall into either of these categories.
There are so many addicts and alcoholics who continue to use despite their parents, significant others, and children begging, pleading, sobbing, and crying. Occasionally it does make a difference (it did for me), but so often it doesn't do a thing. And even when it does work, it's not like it helped because the alcoholic had no idea there was a problem until this other person stepped in. It really only has a prayer of a chance because it hinges on the alcoholic's emotional attachment to that other person. They're afraid of the consequences enough for it to affect their behavior. (And by consequences, this could just be not wanting to hurt the other person up to trying to save their marriage.)
Sometimes trained professionals or other alcoholics can get through to someone like this, but even then it's usually only going to work if there is already some willingness. I'm assuming if you were either a doctor or a recovering alcoholic you would have mentioned that, though.
So, this is basically a long way of saying you should probably stay out of it, but I also recognize your heart is really in the right place on this one. I don't think it matters whether it is or isn't your place (even though it's probably not), but it is just so unlikely to have any positive effect on the situation. I'm sorry, it sucks to watch this from the outside even when you're not super involved with the person. No one likes to watch a life go to waste like that.
posted by litera scripta manet at 9:22 PM on October 24, 2014 [9 favorites]
There are so many addicts and alcoholics who continue to use despite their parents, significant others, and children begging, pleading, sobbing, and crying. Occasionally it does make a difference (it did for me), but so often it doesn't do a thing. And even when it does work, it's not like it helped because the alcoholic had no idea there was a problem until this other person stepped in. It really only has a prayer of a chance because it hinges on the alcoholic's emotional attachment to that other person. They're afraid of the consequences enough for it to affect their behavior. (And by consequences, this could just be not wanting to hurt the other person up to trying to save their marriage.)
Sometimes trained professionals or other alcoholics can get through to someone like this, but even then it's usually only going to work if there is already some willingness. I'm assuming if you were either a doctor or a recovering alcoholic you would have mentioned that, though.
So, this is basically a long way of saying you should probably stay out of it, but I also recognize your heart is really in the right place on this one. I don't think it matters whether it is or isn't your place (even though it's probably not), but it is just so unlikely to have any positive effect on the situation. I'm sorry, it sucks to watch this from the outside even when you're not super involved with the person. No one likes to watch a life go to waste like that.
posted by litera scripta manet at 9:22 PM on October 24, 2014 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Not sure what you would even confront him with…? Anyone who has been hospitalized multiple times for alcohol and who has been to rehab has already been confronted with their addiction problem in many ways.
People in this situation have a response for any confrontation. I'm a doctor so I talk to people about it all the time: "You really need to quit drinking, now. It's killing you." They know. They'll either say exactly that and look self-pitying, or blow you off.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:25 PM on October 24, 2014 [6 favorites]
People in this situation have a response for any confrontation. I'm a doctor so I talk to people about it all the time: "You really need to quit drinking, now. It's killing you." They know. They'll either say exactly that and look self-pitying, or blow you off.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:25 PM on October 24, 2014 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Just my opinion. Include this person in your group emails if you feel comfortable. Alcoholics know they are alcoholics and their shame tends to exacerbate their alcoholism. Unfortunately showing care sometimes exacerbates the shame. From afar you really can only help your friend.
Lots of people have tried to fix or arrest or prevent alcoholism with varied success and there is no one solution. If it was easy it would have been done. What might work in one situation would be counterproductive in another.
I don't think you will find a consensus anywhere.
I'll volunteer here that I'm an alcoholic. There are others here too as well as many many who are effected. There are degrees of course, or so we hope.
Be a friend to your friend and know that is perfect and let the rest go.
posted by vapidave at 9:26 PM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Lots of people have tried to fix or arrest or prevent alcoholism with varied success and there is no one solution. If it was easy it would have been done. What might work in one situation would be counterproductive in another.
I don't think you will find a consensus anywhere.
I'll volunteer here that I'm an alcoholic. There are others here too as well as many many who are effected. There are degrees of course, or so we hope.
Be a friend to your friend and know that is perfect and let the rest go.
posted by vapidave at 9:26 PM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
He has some neurological difficulties (autism spectrum), which I think are impeding his ability to understand the seriousness of the situation.
That's not a fair assessment. It's not up to you to diagnose the source of everyone's problems because they don't agree with you.
I dated and cared/care deeply/have love and genuine affection for someone with a substance abuse problem. I ended the romantic relationship because I know that no matter how many facts I gave him about how he's hurting himself and told him how it hurts me to see him not take care of his precious-to-me self, it's his life and I'm not his mother and he is a grown man. I respect his autonomy, even if he's choosing to shave years off his life and compromise his health.
And this was someone I actually loved. Part of being an adult is respecting that other people get to make the choices they make.
And I'm neurotypical, for whatever that's worth when assessing the seriousness of his problem. Yes, it's a serious problem. But it's his life.
I think it would be far more helpful for you to seek out volunteer opportunities that help you get involved in the right way.
posted by discopolo at 9:30 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
That's not a fair assessment. It's not up to you to diagnose the source of everyone's problems because they don't agree with you.
I dated and cared/care deeply/have love and genuine affection for someone with a substance abuse problem. I ended the romantic relationship because I know that no matter how many facts I gave him about how he's hurting himself and told him how it hurts me to see him not take care of his precious-to-me self, it's his life and I'm not his mother and he is a grown man. I respect his autonomy, even if he's choosing to shave years off his life and compromise his health.
And this was someone I actually loved. Part of being an adult is respecting that other people get to make the choices they make.
And I'm neurotypical, for whatever that's worth when assessing the seriousness of his problem. Yes, it's a serious problem. But it's his life.
I think it would be far more helpful for you to seek out volunteer opportunities that help you get involved in the right way.
posted by discopolo at 9:30 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
He has some neurological difficulties (autism spectrum), which I think are impeding his ability to understand the seriousness of the situation.
As a non neurotypical person and probable alcoholic, nah.
I'm on the butt out side. He's perfectly capable of understanding it, he just doesn't for the same reasons any other alcoholic doesn't. It's not that he's not capable of getting it, he just refuses to acknowledge or accept it.
If I can't get my own damn mom to accept she has a serious drinking problem, you're not going to get some friend of a friend to.
Talk to your actual direct friend about aa and removing themselves from the situation. The only person who can make an alcoholic get help is they themself.
posted by emptythought at 9:46 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
As a non neurotypical person and probable alcoholic, nah.
I'm on the butt out side. He's perfectly capable of understanding it, he just doesn't for the same reasons any other alcoholic doesn't. It's not that he's not capable of getting it, he just refuses to acknowledge or accept it.
If I can't get my own damn mom to accept she has a serious drinking problem, you're not going to get some friend of a friend to.
Talk to your actual direct friend about aa and removing themselves from the situation. The only person who can make an alcoholic get help is they themself.
posted by emptythought at 9:46 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Discopolo and emptythought - just to clarify, it is my friend, not the person with the alcohol problem, who is autism spectrum. The only reason I mentioned that is because, even though he worries about his friend, I'm not sure he really understands the seriousness of the problem - probably because his friend keeps telling him everything's ok. And so he is unlikely to see the need to attend something like Al-Anon.
posted by jenh526 at 10:03 PM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by jenh526 at 10:03 PM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
You could start with the baseline question at the root of Al-Anon: Is your life being affected by someone's drinking?
If your friend can answer yes, then you can honestly say, "Let's go to Al-Anon. Both of us are being affected by someone else's drinking."
posted by BlahLaLa at 10:25 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
If your friend can answer yes, then you can honestly say, "Let's go to Al-Anon. Both of us are being affected by someone else's drinking."
posted by BlahLaLa at 10:25 PM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Nothing to add to the great advice you're getting from everyone else but I do feel like somebody should be "that guy" and point out that Al-Anon doesn't have a monopoly on alcohol recovery. It doesn't sound like this necessarily applies to your friend's situation but some people who want help, or who acknowledge on some level that they need it, don't seek it because they're put off by AA's rhetoric about "powerlessness," and there are alternatives you can tell your friend about if you think that might help. See here and here.
posted by urufu at 1:40 AM on October 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by urufu at 1:40 AM on October 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
In the old days, what we used to do in matters like these was to pray for the afflicted.
Just throwing it out there.
posted by macinchik at 2:23 AM on October 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
Just throwing it out there.
posted by macinchik at 2:23 AM on October 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
You go to Al-Anon and learn what it's about. If it rings true for you, and it helps, then that's great. Continue to invite your friend to attend with you, but don't push.
The thing about addiction is that it ensnares all sorts of people. Friends, family members, etc. Your friend is ensnared, and he can't appreciate it. In Al-Anon, you'll learn that there are people who ENJOY being in relationships with addicts because they can feel superior, helpful, needed, etc. Just as alcoholics need alcohol to feel normal, some people need to be in chaotic relationships to be normal.
Injecting yourself into the middle of this drama may be a signal that you, too, might get some benefit from Al-Anon.
The good news is, it either works or it doesn't. Give it a shot, see if it does. If it doesn't...move on.
But, learn to draw boundaries for yourself. If the alcoholic is out and becoming problematic, simply say, "I'm not having fun anymore, I'm leaving." If your friend is moaning to you about his alcoholic friend's problems, say, "Frankly, that guy's problems are not something that I can deal with. Unless you want to learn about how to deal with an addict by going to Al-Anon with me, I think we should change the subject."
As much as we want to help our friends, sometimes we have to help ourselves first.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:01 AM on October 25, 2014 [5 favorites]
The thing about addiction is that it ensnares all sorts of people. Friends, family members, etc. Your friend is ensnared, and he can't appreciate it. In Al-Anon, you'll learn that there are people who ENJOY being in relationships with addicts because they can feel superior, helpful, needed, etc. Just as alcoholics need alcohol to feel normal, some people need to be in chaotic relationships to be normal.
Injecting yourself into the middle of this drama may be a signal that you, too, might get some benefit from Al-Anon.
The good news is, it either works or it doesn't. Give it a shot, see if it does. If it doesn't...move on.
But, learn to draw boundaries for yourself. If the alcoholic is out and becoming problematic, simply say, "I'm not having fun anymore, I'm leaving." If your friend is moaning to you about his alcoholic friend's problems, say, "Frankly, that guy's problems are not something that I can deal with. Unless you want to learn about how to deal with an addict by going to Al-Anon with me, I think we should change the subject."
As much as we want to help our friends, sometimes we have to help ourselves first.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:01 AM on October 25, 2014 [5 favorites]
Actually I think it would be fine for you to send an email, as long as you do it knowing it's very unlikely to be effective. But to do it for the reason you say, because you will feel bad if you don't, seems reasonable to me.
My bias is to not interfere in other people's lives: I am a big believer in people getting to make their own decisions/mistakes/etc. That said, by sending an email you are not doing anything coercive or agency-reducing: you're just giving him some information, which is that his drinking is serious enough to be noticed by near-strangers. If your friend is on the spectrum he may be sending the guy "neutral" signals rather than concerned ones, so you may end up just correcting for that.
A couple of times in my life strangers or near-strangers have been unusually direct with me about how they see me, and I have found it really useful and have been grateful. That was small stuff and this is different with a lower likelihood of success, but there is very little cost to you in sending the mail, so why not do it? The likely outcome is that you will need to let go emotionally as the guy slowly kills himself, and sending this mail may actually help you do that.
posted by Susan PG at 6:52 AM on October 25, 2014
My bias is to not interfere in other people's lives: I am a big believer in people getting to make their own decisions/mistakes/etc. That said, by sending an email you are not doing anything coercive or agency-reducing: you're just giving him some information, which is that his drinking is serious enough to be noticed by near-strangers. If your friend is on the spectrum he may be sending the guy "neutral" signals rather than concerned ones, so you may end up just correcting for that.
A couple of times in my life strangers or near-strangers have been unusually direct with me about how they see me, and I have found it really useful and have been grateful. That was small stuff and this is different with a lower likelihood of success, but there is very little cost to you in sending the mail, so why not do it? The likely outcome is that you will need to let go emotionally as the guy slowly kills himself, and sending this mail may actually help you do that.
posted by Susan PG at 6:52 AM on October 25, 2014
Response by poster: If your friend is on the spectrum he may be sending the guy "neutral" signals rather than concerned ones, so you may end up just correcting for that.
Thanks, Susan, for clarifying one of my concerns. My friend is the closest person to the drinker, and I worry that this man may be crying for help/concern and my friend is missing the signals. Or that, like you said, he is not capable of relaying his concern effectively. I had wanted us both to go to Al-Anon so we could both gain a better understanding, and if/when this man dies of his disease, my friend (and I) will have already been prepared.
But thanks, everyone, for your replies. I especially appreciate the responses from those who have been on the front lines, as this is something that I have no experience with. I am taking the suggestions to go to Al-Anon myself to heart.
posted by jenh526 at 8:01 AM on October 25, 2014
Thanks, Susan, for clarifying one of my concerns. My friend is the closest person to the drinker, and I worry that this man may be crying for help/concern and my friend is missing the signals. Or that, like you said, he is not capable of relaying his concern effectively. I had wanted us both to go to Al-Anon so we could both gain a better understanding, and if/when this man dies of his disease, my friend (and I) will have already been prepared.
But thanks, everyone, for your replies. I especially appreciate the responses from those who have been on the front lines, as this is something that I have no experience with. I am taking the suggestions to go to Al-Anon myself to heart.
posted by jenh526 at 8:01 AM on October 25, 2014
Somewhat like SusanG, I say contact the guy and say that his problems are a problem for your friend.
This is not exactly confronting his drinking. More like saying I don't care whether you practice drumming or not, but you can't be drumming right under my granny's window.
Probably won't help, but at least you've made an effort to protect your friend.
And then you tell your friend. And maybe Al-Anon will seem like an option. And then you step back because what else can you do?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:04 AM on October 25, 2014
This is not exactly confronting his drinking. More like saying I don't care whether you practice drumming or not, but you can't be drumming right under my granny's window.
Probably won't help, but at least you've made an effort to protect your friend.
And then you tell your friend. And maybe Al-Anon will seem like an option. And then you step back because what else can you do?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:04 AM on October 25, 2014
Except even if he's crying for help, what's your friend going to do about it? He's not a rehab. Friend's friend knows where help is. Friend can offer to be a chauffeur if he wants but there's not a lot else a person can do, that won't just make things worse.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2014
posted by small_ruminant at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2014
Discopolo and emptythought - just to clarify, it is my friend, not the person with the alcohol problem, who is autism spectrum. The only reason I mentioned that is because, even though he worries about his friend, I'm not sure he really understands the seriousness of the problem - probably because his friend keeps telling him everything's ok. And so he is unlikely to see the need to attend something like Al-Anon.
I know you're talking about your friend. I think your friend knows it's a serious situation and you're underestimating him due to your own biases about his abilities and his choosing not to agree with you and meddle in his friend's life.
posted by discopolo at 2:16 PM on October 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
I know you're talking about your friend. I think your friend knows it's a serious situation and you're underestimating him due to your own biases about his abilities and his choosing not to agree with you and meddle in his friend's life.
posted by discopolo at 2:16 PM on October 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I wanted to give everyone an update on this, although I'm not sure anyone will read it. I mostly kept my nose out of it, except that I had a heart-to-heart with my friend, and once again urged him to consider Al-Anon. Good news is that he found a group he likes, and has been going regularly. He has told his friend he is attending meetings. And tonight we got some very good news - his friend has decided to start attending meetings himself, inspired by the actions of people close to him. So, there is hope.
posted by jenh526 at 6:15 PM on March 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by jenh526 at 6:15 PM on March 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
That is so cool when that happens!
Thanks for updating.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:25 PM on March 7, 2015
Thanks for updating.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:25 PM on March 7, 2015
« Older New Dell Windows 7 / 8.1 Pro has no product key... | Do I just resign myself to being a Prozac junkie? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Sal and Richard at 8:07 PM on October 24, 2014 [6 favorites]