3 Years... Feeling Conflicted About The Future
October 15, 2014 2:57 AM Subscribe
I'm going to try VERY hard to keep this brief, but it will end up being stupid-long. Bear with me. Basically, I've been dating a guy for three years who I love very, very much, and has alternatively felt like the perfect match for me and like someone I may not be able to stand for 20 years. I go through periods of being very happy with him, but also periods of being very sad.
Currently, this is a period of sad. I'm not sad about my life in general, actually, but he seems to bring me down a lot. Here are details, with helpful + and - marks.
+ he's one of the kindest people I've ever met
+ he'll be an excellent father, at least from the emotional standpoint, though perhaps not in terms of responsibilites
+ he treats me really well in every conscious way
+ he makes me laugh, A LOT
+ he doesn't care about my weight, or my makeup, or general superficial things
+ we share quite a few similar interests, though certainly not all the ones that are important to me (but who's perfect, right?)
+ he will always help me get somewhere, go with me to doctor's visits, be there for the "gross" parts of relationships
+ he always wants to talk about things when there's an issue, not sweep it under the rug
+ we've shared three years together, and it's the best relationship I've ever had (despite caveats)
- he's been out of school for a year and a half and unable to find a job that he's able to stand for more than 2 or so months
- he'd rather sit and play video games then do anything else (except spend time with me, which is a +)
- he's incredibly bad at budgeting, and sees nothing wrong with living on the edge
- he's inactive/eats badly/doesn't take good care of himself
- he lives in a truly disgusting apartment where both he and his roommate don't tend to do dishes until they run out, and even then they only wash that one fork, while I'm the type of person who cleans everything immediately
- he's not my "type" physically, which used to not matter at all and now sometimes bothers me, albeit occasionally
Basically, he seems to lack a lot of ambition/grown-up skills that I want him to have. I find it very unattractive that he lives in filth and doesn't leave the house unless he has to, but at the same time, he just took new headshots and did a great voiceover audition, so he's finally trying to get his acting career sorted out. (Yes, I know, never date actors, but I went to theatre school in LA so I'm going to date them anyway.) In addition, I'm no catch right now either -- while I certainly tried harder in school and am trying harder to get a job (I've been out of school for 5 months), I'm also unemployed and have sunk into the sending-out-cover-letters-to-jobs-I-don't-want-and-then-watching-netflix stage of post-grad nonsense.
Right now I'm experiencing a problem being sexually attracted to him. Usually, I want to have sex more than he does, but right now he just feels very unattractive to me. At the same time, I love him a lot, and I really WANT to be attracted to him, but I can't force it to work. This has happened before, and it went away, but I don't really want to be in a relationship where I forever rely on the shifting of the winds. I want him to be more like the guy I believe he could eventually be, which I know is unreasonable because you can't change people, but it's hard when I see it being so close and possible.
Anyway. A lot of info, combined with a sort-of "please validate my decision" attitude, but I genuinely do want everyone's advice. I know there's plenty of fish in the sea, but most of the time I really quite like my fish, and he's already resolved a lot of things I had an issue with (ex: he used to not check his phone more than once every two days, and now he checks it about every two or so hours, more if we're already talking, because I told him staying in touch while apart was important to me).
Currently, this is a period of sad. I'm not sad about my life in general, actually, but he seems to bring me down a lot. Here are details, with helpful + and - marks.
+ he's one of the kindest people I've ever met
+ he'll be an excellent father, at least from the emotional standpoint, though perhaps not in terms of responsibilites
+ he treats me really well in every conscious way
+ he makes me laugh, A LOT
+ he doesn't care about my weight, or my makeup, or general superficial things
+ we share quite a few similar interests, though certainly not all the ones that are important to me (but who's perfect, right?)
+ he will always help me get somewhere, go with me to doctor's visits, be there for the "gross" parts of relationships
+ he always wants to talk about things when there's an issue, not sweep it under the rug
+ we've shared three years together, and it's the best relationship I've ever had (despite caveats)
- he's been out of school for a year and a half and unable to find a job that he's able to stand for more than 2 or so months
- he'd rather sit and play video games then do anything else (except spend time with me, which is a +)
- he's incredibly bad at budgeting, and sees nothing wrong with living on the edge
- he's inactive/eats badly/doesn't take good care of himself
- he lives in a truly disgusting apartment where both he and his roommate don't tend to do dishes until they run out, and even then they only wash that one fork, while I'm the type of person who cleans everything immediately
- he's not my "type" physically, which used to not matter at all and now sometimes bothers me, albeit occasionally
Basically, he seems to lack a lot of ambition/grown-up skills that I want him to have. I find it very unattractive that he lives in filth and doesn't leave the house unless he has to, but at the same time, he just took new headshots and did a great voiceover audition, so he's finally trying to get his acting career sorted out. (Yes, I know, never date actors, but I went to theatre school in LA so I'm going to date them anyway.) In addition, I'm no catch right now either -- while I certainly tried harder in school and am trying harder to get a job (I've been out of school for 5 months), I'm also unemployed and have sunk into the sending-out-cover-letters-to-jobs-I-don't-want-and-then-watching-netflix stage of post-grad nonsense.
Right now I'm experiencing a problem being sexually attracted to him. Usually, I want to have sex more than he does, but right now he just feels very unattractive to me. At the same time, I love him a lot, and I really WANT to be attracted to him, but I can't force it to work. This has happened before, and it went away, but I don't really want to be in a relationship where I forever rely on the shifting of the winds. I want him to be more like the guy I believe he could eventually be, which I know is unreasonable because you can't change people, but it's hard when I see it being so close and possible.
Anyway. A lot of info, combined with a sort-of "please validate my decision" attitude, but I genuinely do want everyone's advice. I know there's plenty of fish in the sea, but most of the time I really quite like my fish, and he's already resolved a lot of things I had an issue with (ex: he used to not check his phone more than once every two days, and now he checks it about every two or so hours, more if we're already talking, because I told him staying in touch while apart was important to me).
The negatives you list are the qualities of someone you do not want to spend your life with. They are the qualities of an immature young man, a child. You do not want to spend you life parenting your partner.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:12 AM on October 15, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 3:12 AM on October 15, 2014 [6 favorites]
The things you see as problems, how does he feel about them? Because if he has no issues with his unemployment or living in filth, he's unlikely to bother changing them. I wouldn't look at your boyfriend and base your decision on whether to stay or leave on his future potential, I would base it on what you have right now and if this relationship as it stands with all his qualities is all you're ever going to get, will it make you happy?
posted by Jubey at 3:15 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Jubey at 3:15 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm no catch right now either
What would you do if you were? Do that.
posted by headnsouth at 3:15 AM on October 15, 2014 [15 favorites]
What would you do if you were? Do that.
posted by headnsouth at 3:15 AM on October 15, 2014 [15 favorites]
Fixing a "doesn't check his phone" level problem is doable. Fixing "unmotivated, unhealthy slob who's bad with jobs/money and I'm sometimes not even attracted to" is not. These qualities may improve slightly, but it is going to be SUCH a battle and it is going to fall SO FAR short of your expectations. Add to that the fact that if your life moves in the direction of full time job/marriage/kids/house/etc. over the next 10 or 20 years, your expectations--nay, need--for a partner who has their act together and can pull their own weight in terms of finances, household responsibilities, and "git 'er done" attitude is going to be all that much stronger.
posted by drlith at 3:29 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by drlith at 3:29 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Additional Notes:
1) I think it's very easy to live in the mindset of "it doesn't feel like a fairytale" or "what if there's a better relationship out there," and having watched a slew of romcoms, I'm very susceptible to this. "Oh, I had doubts for a second there! Must be time to bail!" Maybe I've overcorrected back to ignoring my gut, but I'm very wary of the "just leave" mentality.
2) On a lot of the other posts about this sort of issue, some of my favorite comments have incorporated a sort of what-would-it-feel-like-if-he-moved-to-europe-forever-tomorrow sort of a thing. While you can't underestimate the power of grief and rejection clouding true feelings, at least right now the idea of not having him in my life still feels 85-90% awful, and on a better day it's maybe 95%. It just sounds terrible. I honestly wish I could just have two boyfriends, and the other one could be really handsome and financially responsible and organize his clean cutlery, but obviously that's not an option. But living without him sounds pretty damn terrible.
3) I'm not happy with this overwhelming "go" response, but I have to give you all your due - I asked for advice, that doesn't mean I'll like it. Sigh.
posted by noteasyisit at 3:31 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
1) I think it's very easy to live in the mindset of "it doesn't feel like a fairytale" or "what if there's a better relationship out there," and having watched a slew of romcoms, I'm very susceptible to this. "Oh, I had doubts for a second there! Must be time to bail!" Maybe I've overcorrected back to ignoring my gut, but I'm very wary of the "just leave" mentality.
2) On a lot of the other posts about this sort of issue, some of my favorite comments have incorporated a sort of what-would-it-feel-like-if-he-moved-to-europe-forever-tomorrow sort of a thing. While you can't underestimate the power of grief and rejection clouding true feelings, at least right now the idea of not having him in my life still feels 85-90% awful, and on a better day it's maybe 95%. It just sounds terrible. I honestly wish I could just have two boyfriends, and the other one could be really handsome and financially responsible and organize his clean cutlery, but obviously that's not an option. But living without him sounds pretty damn terrible.
3) I'm not happy with this overwhelming "go" response, but I have to give you all your due - I asked for advice, that doesn't mean I'll like it. Sigh.
posted by noteasyisit at 3:31 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
Here's the thing to always remember. Just because someone isn't a bad person, doesn't mean he's the right partner for you. Just because it's the best relationship you've ever had, doesn't mean it will be the best you ever will have.
He's a not-bad guy who doesn't altogether do it for you. That's okay. It's good to know this. You can love someone and not be in love with them. I think that's where you are now. And while the idea of hurting someone you really care about sucks, the idea of living a lie just so you don't hurt his feelings is not fair to either of you. Not in the least.
Shaking up the status quo is hard. I know. He's comfortable. But stay with him without much changing and, well, this is where unhappy marriages come from where the parents stay together for the sake of the kids.
posted by inturnaround at 3:43 AM on October 15, 2014 [15 favorites]
He's a not-bad guy who doesn't altogether do it for you. That's okay. It's good to know this. You can love someone and not be in love with them. I think that's where you are now. And while the idea of hurting someone you really care about sucks, the idea of living a lie just so you don't hurt his feelings is not fair to either of you. Not in the least.
Shaking up the status quo is hard. I know. He's comfortable. But stay with him without much changing and, well, this is where unhappy marriages come from where the parents stay together for the sake of the kids.
posted by inturnaround at 3:43 AM on October 15, 2014 [15 favorites]
It sounds like you are, on the whole, dissatisfied with this relationship, but you are afraid of hurting this man's feelings. The thing is, it is more compassionate and kind in the end to break up with a perfectly nice person who you know just isn't working out rather than wait for them to do something "bad" enough in order to justify breaking up with them. The latter option is the selfish one, because it's all about protecting your moral high ground in the relationship.
The way your question is worded sounds like you are laying out a balance sheet of qualities and asking the jury "is this person okay to break up with?" It's OK. You don't need a huge deal breaker to move on. "I'm just not feeling it anymore" is absolutely valid.
I will also add that money and general "adultness" (realistic career ambitions, basic ability to cook/clean, personal finance skills) are perfectly valid reasons to not want to be in a relationship with someone. Even if they are a nice person whom you love.
posted by deathpanels at 3:59 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
The way your question is worded sounds like you are laying out a balance sheet of qualities and asking the jury "is this person okay to break up with?" It's OK. You don't need a huge deal breaker to move on. "I'm just not feeling it anymore" is absolutely valid.
I will also add that money and general "adultness" (realistic career ambitions, basic ability to cook/clean, personal finance skills) are perfectly valid reasons to not want to be in a relationship with someone. Even if they are a nice person whom you love.
posted by deathpanels at 3:59 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
You are not dating a man.
You are dating a man child.
You're not going to end up being his wife, you're going to end up being his mother and maid and housekeeper.
You deserve BETTER than that.
Your children deserve a better father and male role model than that.
I would think that you would rather be happy and alone rather than coupled and miserable.
Again, you deserve better.
Time for this to come to an end.
posted by John Kennedy Toole Box at 4:34 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
You are dating a man child.
You're not going to end up being his wife, you're going to end up being his mother and maid and housekeeper.
You deserve BETTER than that.
Your children deserve a better father and male role model than that.
I would think that you would rather be happy and alone rather than coupled and miserable.
Again, you deserve better.
Time for this to come to an end.
posted by John Kennedy Toole Box at 4:34 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
Your description of him makes him sound very young, like a lot of college-age guys,* perhaps with an extra dose of depression or anxiety or whatever is lowering his motivation that additional step, so I guess I'd have a different reaction if he is 21 versus if he is 31. Even more so, though, the real test is when you have articulated your needs and concerns (because you have done that, right?), how does he respond? Does he blow you off or does he buckle down and address the issues needed to make you happy?
But either way, people only change when they are ready to change. The thing that is impossible to know from this question is whether or not he has any interest in changing his lifestyle, even if the risk of not doing so is losing you. And that you won't know until you have talked directly and clearly to him and had time to see how he follows up on that conversation.
* When I was 20 I had a roommate and we did the same gross dishes thing. And then in the same week, separately, both of our girlfriends pointed out how disgusting it was and we talked about it and from then on we kept things under control. Living in messy conditions temporarily is societally tolerated for young men (for all kinds of problematic reasons), but it's not cool to continue it into adulthood, or to continue it after significant others or friends find it excessively gross.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:41 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
But either way, people only change when they are ready to change. The thing that is impossible to know from this question is whether or not he has any interest in changing his lifestyle, even if the risk of not doing so is losing you. And that you won't know until you have talked directly and clearly to him and had time to see how he follows up on that conversation.
* When I was 20 I had a roommate and we did the same gross dishes thing. And then in the same week, separately, both of our girlfriends pointed out how disgusting it was and we talked about it and from then on we kept things under control. Living in messy conditions temporarily is societally tolerated for young men (for all kinds of problematic reasons), but it's not cool to continue it into adulthood, or to continue it after significant others or friends find it excessively gross.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:41 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
I honestly wish I could just have two boyfriends, and the other one could be really handsome and financially responsible and organize his clean cutlery, but obviously that's not an option.
It's important to recall that your circumstances right now--you aren't sharing household, financial, or family responsibilities--allow you to distance yourself somewhat from a lot of his less-desirable attributes. If your end game is marriage and family, you need to stop thinking in terms of whether he makes a good boyfriend and start thinking in terms of whether he would make a good husband and father.
posted by drlith at 4:54 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's important to recall that your circumstances right now--you aren't sharing household, financial, or family responsibilities--allow you to distance yourself somewhat from a lot of his less-desirable attributes. If your end game is marriage and family, you need to stop thinking in terms of whether he makes a good boyfriend and start thinking in terms of whether he would make a good husband and father.
posted by drlith at 4:54 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
...some of my favorite comments have incorporated a sort of what-would-it-feel-like-if-he-moved-to-europe-forever-tomorrow sort of a thing
I think you might be better off thinking about how you would feel in either case a year, or 5 years out, rather than the day after your relationship ends. If you choose to break up with him, yep, it's going to hurt for the first days and weeks and maybe even months. But he is not the only man that will ever want to date you, and you should think about how will you feel long term?
5 years from now, are you going to be so glad you stuck it out, because you would be starting a family and he would keep you relaxed and in good spirits while you move up the career ladder and change all the diapers? Or will you be burdened down, pulling the financials yourself and wondering if you should send your kids to daycare or hire a housekeeper while he stays at home because you can't count on him to pull his own weight?
posted by fermezporte at 4:56 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think you might be better off thinking about how you would feel in either case a year, or 5 years out, rather than the day after your relationship ends. If you choose to break up with him, yep, it's going to hurt for the first days and weeks and maybe even months. But he is not the only man that will ever want to date you, and you should think about how will you feel long term?
5 years from now, are you going to be so glad you stuck it out, because you would be starting a family and he would keep you relaxed and in good spirits while you move up the career ladder and change all the diapers? Or will you be burdened down, pulling the financials yourself and wondering if you should send your kids to daycare or hire a housekeeper while he stays at home because you can't count on him to pull his own weight?
posted by fermezporte at 4:56 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
+ he'll be an excellent father, at least from the emotional standpoint, though perhaps not in terms of responsibilities
I want you to re-read this sentence and think very carefully indeed about what it means. Being even an adequate father is about actions. If you want something for your kids to love unconditionally that doesn't do anything for them, get them a stuffed animal.
posted by atrazine at 5:06 AM on October 15, 2014 [36 favorites]
I want you to re-read this sentence and think very carefully indeed about what it means. Being even an adequate father is about actions. If you want something for your kids to love unconditionally that doesn't do anything for them, get them a stuffed animal.
posted by atrazine at 5:06 AM on October 15, 2014 [36 favorites]
You know what I think? I think you should wait a little longer, until you get the job situation sorted out and until you see if this headshot business pans out. You're under a huge amount of stress because you've just graduated and are unemployed - that can put a hell of a crimp in your sex drive. He's still quite young, and honestly, having a real job changes things for a lot of people - people who live in filth paycheck-to-paycheck often seem to grow some sense once they hit the "I have an adult job, I have regular money coming in but I also have to get up on time" stage.
Set a deadline - three months? Six months? And if things are still as they are now, then it's time to bail. Normally, I would suggest listening to the sinking feeling and also being skeptical of workshy dudes who live in filth, but the employment difficulty does such a number on your head and you often don't realize it at the time.
posted by Frowner at 5:08 AM on October 15, 2014 [15 favorites]
Set a deadline - three months? Six months? And if things are still as they are now, then it's time to bail. Normally, I would suggest listening to the sinking feeling and also being skeptical of workshy dudes who live in filth, but the employment difficulty does such a number on your head and you often don't realize it at the time.
posted by Frowner at 5:08 AM on October 15, 2014 [15 favorites]
But a no-cleaning guy who doesn't care about money and quits jobs he doesn't like will wreck your home and drag you down financially. Not worth it. Even if you never find Mr. Rich "Handsome" McCleanster, you're better off. Guys like that do exist, or at least guys who YOU think are handsome.Aren't you jumping the gun a bit here? If I'm reading this correctly, OP and the SO don't even live together.
I read this couple as being recently out of college, so probably age 21-23. At that age, it's reasonable that you might have poor dish-washing skills, I think, since you've probably been living in dormitories or something like it for most of your adult lives, and likely haven't had to learn many cooking or cleaning skills. I know plenty of guy friends who followed this pattern until they got a "real" job or got married or got a dog or whatever milestone it took to switch that light on in their head that says "Oh, this is my home, I should care for it." They seem to have turned out okay.
But I have a feeling there is more to this question than just cleanliness preferences.
posted by deathpanels at 5:13 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
His behaviours are annoying you now, imagine living with them. Yes people can change, but if planning your future you shouldn't count on that change because it may not happen. You are in a relationship with a man child, there is nothing wrong with being one or being in a relationship with one but what you expect from one is different than what you should expect from someone who isn't.
Staying with someone because you love them & they have offered to work with you on the areas that are affecting your relationship & you work on them together, maybe seeing a counselor and discussing things with a shared goal in mind is one thing. Staying with someone because "you're not much of a catch" either & you might not find a guy that can wash dishes & has a job is another. Basic hygiene/housekeeping skills & employment are not pie in the sky goals to have for a partner.
It's fine for you to stay if you think the pluses outweigh the negatives, it's not our place to decide for you, just be clear to yourself why you are staying. Accept that he won't change and work on learning to live with all his negatives.
posted by wwax at 5:16 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
Staying with someone because you love them & they have offered to work with you on the areas that are affecting your relationship & you work on them together, maybe seeing a counselor and discussing things with a shared goal in mind is one thing. Staying with someone because "you're not much of a catch" either & you might not find a guy that can wash dishes & has a job is another. Basic hygiene/housekeeping skills & employment are not pie in the sky goals to have for a partner.
It's fine for you to stay if you think the pluses outweigh the negatives, it's not our place to decide for you, just be clear to yourself why you are staying. Accept that he won't change and work on learning to live with all his negatives.
posted by wwax at 5:16 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
As someone who has shed many tears over chores in a pretty darn good marriage, I think any one of these three things is surmountable. All of them are tough.
The chores can be partly solved with money, but not if it is a starving dreamer type situation. And I have to really agree that being a parent is about knowing where the boots are, dealing with the torn raincoat, proving lunch and cleaning mashed potato out of the crack in the kitchen wall (why, child, why?)
The sex question...my husband and I have had times we weren't as into sex but I've never found him unsexy.
I think in your situation I would talk to my boyfriend about what I want...a not lavish but clean home, two earning partners, time spent outside. I would talk about whether he wants that too and how he will get there. I would give him to the spring to start growing up and to see if the sexy lull was short. During that time I'd throw my drive into creating that life for myself, alone. But that's it.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:53 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
The chores can be partly solved with money, but not if it is a starving dreamer type situation. And I have to really agree that being a parent is about knowing where the boots are, dealing with the torn raincoat, proving lunch and cleaning mashed potato out of the crack in the kitchen wall (why, child, why?)
The sex question...my husband and I have had times we weren't as into sex but I've never found him unsexy.
I think in your situation I would talk to my boyfriend about what I want...a not lavish but clean home, two earning partners, time spent outside. I would talk about whether he wants that too and how he will get there. I would give him to the spring to start growing up and to see if the sexy lull was short. During that time I'd throw my drive into creating that life for myself, alone. But that's it.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:53 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
This seems like either a not-so-great match or bad timing for you two. And by "bad timing," I mean, there's a chance that someday he'll grow up and get his life together, and you'll be kicking yourself for having dumped him when he was a lazy slob. But then again... there's a chance that he won't.
So I would say two things: first, have you talked to him about all of this? It's a hard conversation because you'll need to work at being open without sounding too judgmental. Like, "I need to be with somebody who thinks it's important to take care of themselves, and to me that means having basic standards of cleanliness, staying active, and making an effort to hold down a job that pays the bills." And you can see how he reacts -- if he says, "Look, this is me," then you need to bail, but maybe he's more receptive.
And second, if nothing changes, and it's a few years from now and you're ready to settle down, are you going to want to be with him or will you feel like you wasted your time with someone who's not the partner you're looking for? How long are you willing to be in this relationship if nothing changes?
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:54 AM on October 15, 2014
So I would say two things: first, have you talked to him about all of this? It's a hard conversation because you'll need to work at being open without sounding too judgmental. Like, "I need to be with somebody who thinks it's important to take care of themselves, and to me that means having basic standards of cleanliness, staying active, and making an effort to hold down a job that pays the bills." And you can see how he reacts -- if he says, "Look, this is me," then you need to bail, but maybe he's more receptive.
And second, if nothing changes, and it's a few years from now and you're ready to settle down, are you going to want to be with him or will you feel like you wasted your time with someone who's not the partner you're looking for? How long are you willing to be in this relationship if nothing changes?
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:54 AM on October 15, 2014
Really, expectations are everything, especially if you're talking about taking the relationship another step forward – moving in together, or talking marriage/kids, or whatever.
Being in a different state of "adultness" from your partner is frustrating and difficult, especially once you start sharing financial responsibilities. You wouldn't think this would matter, when you're in the Disney-eyes part of the relationship, but it does. Think long and hard about it before you make a commitment.
posted by deathpanels at 6:03 AM on October 15, 2014
Being in a different state of "adultness" from your partner is frustrating and difficult, especially once you start sharing financial responsibilities. You wouldn't think this would matter, when you're in the Disney-eyes part of the relationship, but it does. Think long and hard about it before you make a commitment.
posted by deathpanels at 6:03 AM on October 15, 2014
If you're ambitious I think that having an non-career-ambitious partner can be a great bonus; especially if you want kids and don't have an army of nannies and grandparents to hand.
But that's pretty different from a partner who will stay at home all day making mess they expect you to clean up when you get in.
Maybe it might help to list out the "roles" you expect there to be in a partnership, and see how they might be divided between you and whether it would be possible to make it reasonably even. For example:
- Making money
- Being good support for partner who is stressed by their job making money
- Being project manager of housework and DIY and bill paying and holiday organising and all that stuff
- Spending a lot of time doing housework and DIY and etc
- Being project manager of children and their ballet lessons and doctor appointments
- Spending a lot of time looking after the kids
- Being flexible and able to deal with sick kids and tradespeople at short notice
- Managing family finances
- Whatever else you can think of that contributes to family life
Perhaps if you think through (maybe together?) which of these things which of you would do, in a partnership, you can get a sense of how workable it would be, and whether it would be worth road testing it, or whether it's a non-starter. Personally I think that cohabiting with someone who lives in shit AND can't afford a cleaner is a non-starter. YMMV.
posted by emilyw at 6:24 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
But that's pretty different from a partner who will stay at home all day making mess they expect you to clean up when you get in.
Maybe it might help to list out the "roles" you expect there to be in a partnership, and see how they might be divided between you and whether it would be possible to make it reasonably even. For example:
- Making money
- Being good support for partner who is stressed by their job making money
- Being project manager of housework and DIY and bill paying and holiday organising and all that stuff
- Spending a lot of time doing housework and DIY and etc
- Being project manager of children and their ballet lessons and doctor appointments
- Spending a lot of time looking after the kids
- Being flexible and able to deal with sick kids and tradespeople at short notice
- Managing family finances
- Whatever else you can think of that contributes to family life
Perhaps if you think through (maybe together?) which of these things which of you would do, in a partnership, you can get a sense of how workable it would be, and whether it would be worth road testing it, or whether it's a non-starter. Personally I think that cohabiting with someone who lives in shit AND can't afford a cleaner is a non-starter. YMMV.
posted by emilyw at 6:24 AM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
In my experience this level of ambivalence won't go away, it'll just gnaw at you and possibly get transformed into self blame if it lasts long enough. Since you said you don't want that to be the characteristic of your relationship, I think you want a different relationship.
posted by ead at 6:49 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by ead at 6:49 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
He's presumably behaving the same way whether you're feeling good or bad about the situation, yes? If he is, what's different about those times? If you can figure out why it doesn't bother you at certain times, see if you can use that same thing the rest of the time, so you always don't mind his behaviour.
he seems to lack a lot of ambition/grown-up skills that I want him to have
Spend some time considering this. Wanting this particular guy to be different to how he is, is setting you on a hiding to nowhere. It's also somewhat disrespectful to try to change another person - they're an adult and get to make their own choices about how they live their life. You might not agree with or like those choices, but luckily you have your own life to make changes in.
However, if it's just that you want your partner to have attributes X, Y and Z, then that's completely OK, and a helluva lot easier and simpler than trying to change someone. Spend your energy and time on finding someone who is the person you want to have as a partner. It will involve some looking, but your chances of getting what you actually want are massively increased. And the person you find will come ready-made. You won't have to go through cycles of being unhappy and miserable and fighting against reality. Everything you want will be right there in front of you. You will not have to parent this person into being who you want them to be.
You haven't been having second thoughts for just a few seconds. You've been having them since the first time you had them in this three year long scenario. Spend your time doing things and inviting things into your life that make you happy. This guy doesn't seem to make you consistently happy.
posted by Solomon at 7:32 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
he seems to lack a lot of ambition/grown-up skills that I want him to have
Spend some time considering this. Wanting this particular guy to be different to how he is, is setting you on a hiding to nowhere. It's also somewhat disrespectful to try to change another person - they're an adult and get to make their own choices about how they live their life. You might not agree with or like those choices, but luckily you have your own life to make changes in.
However, if it's just that you want your partner to have attributes X, Y and Z, then that's completely OK, and a helluva lot easier and simpler than trying to change someone. Spend your energy and time on finding someone who is the person you want to have as a partner. It will involve some looking, but your chances of getting what you actually want are massively increased. And the person you find will come ready-made. You won't have to go through cycles of being unhappy and miserable and fighting against reality. Everything you want will be right there in front of you. You will not have to parent this person into being who you want them to be.
You haven't been having second thoughts for just a few seconds. You've been having them since the first time you had them in this three year long scenario. Spend your time doing things and inviting things into your life that make you happy. This guy doesn't seem to make you consistently happy.
posted by Solomon at 7:32 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
In my opinion, the Cons list is a deal breaker.
Yes he's kind, but there are also plenty of other kind men out there who CAN budget, CAN clean up after themselves, DO have jobs etc.
The situation is not going to get better. In my experience, people who sit in front of computer games all day and live in sh*t holes don't suddenly change.
Also, what kind of work is he doing that he just "can't STAND" the job for longer than 2 months? Seriously? Be real about this... he's just not trying is he?
Also, I think you're enabling his behavior by making excuses for him in your own mind.
Sorry, I know this may come across as a bit tough, but really when you boil it down, I honestly think you'd be better off alone. Or else, get accustomed to looking after this guy for the rest of your life.... it that sounds awful to you, get out now while you're still young!
posted by JenThePro at 7:53 AM on October 15, 2014
Yes he's kind, but there are also plenty of other kind men out there who CAN budget, CAN clean up after themselves, DO have jobs etc.
The situation is not going to get better. In my experience, people who sit in front of computer games all day and live in sh*t holes don't suddenly change.
Also, what kind of work is he doing that he just "can't STAND" the job for longer than 2 months? Seriously? Be real about this... he's just not trying is he?
Also, I think you're enabling his behavior by making excuses for him in your own mind.
Sorry, I know this may come across as a bit tough, but really when you boil it down, I honestly think you'd be better off alone. Or else, get accustomed to looking after this guy for the rest of your life.... it that sounds awful to you, get out now while you're still young!
posted by JenThePro at 7:53 AM on October 15, 2014
There's something important missing from your list of pluses. Something like:
+ We share an incredibly deep intimate connection. I don't have to hide myself from him.
+ He brings out the best in me. I like who I am around him. He makes it safe for me to be truly myself.
+ I feel like I am growing as a person in this relationship, and so is he. There seems to be no end to how far we can go. I see myself becoming who I want to become; so does he.
+ He cares about my needs, but also about his own; in this relationship I do the same for me; we are able to have conversations about this and balance the needs of the relationship against our own needs.
+ I don't feel I am giving up anything important to me by being with him. Rather, this relationship is a gift.
+ I am excited about our future together. I look forward to the coming decades.
That sounds like a lot, and maybe hard to internalize until you've felt it yourself, but it is possible to have these qualities in a relationship. In really good relationships, both parties flower. They make the world safe for one another and then they both jump in. They have each other's backs.
You definitely have a lot a lot of good things going on, but a lot of them -- kindness, communication, connection, being there for you -- are kind of baseline level. All good relationships have these qualities, and in fact if any of these weren't present, it would cease to be a functioning relationship. It's a good sign that these things are present, but it's not worth sacrificing yourself to preserve a relationship that is just hitting the baseline. Things can go SO MUCH deeper than this.
I am not necessarily saying leave, but I think it is time you decided that a deeper level of intimacy is something you are ready for, and that means identifying and valuing your needs and putting them out there. The life you see for yourself in the future is not very compatible with the live he is living right now. You need to know that if you choose to live together, he will take care of his health, he will be active, he will clean up, he will be engaged with the world, because you want a partner, not a ward. You need feel a sense of growth rather than stagnation. Progression and aliveness. These things matter to you and they should matter. You are worried about him, not just because of your future, but also his. See if he can hear them. Maybe he feels stuck himself and just needs an opening to talk about this. Perhaps the two of you can go deeper than you have. Or, maybe you can't, but it's worth a try.
posted by PercussivePaul at 8:12 AM on October 15, 2014 [28 favorites]
+ We share an incredibly deep intimate connection. I don't have to hide myself from him.
+ He brings out the best in me. I like who I am around him. He makes it safe for me to be truly myself.
+ I feel like I am growing as a person in this relationship, and so is he. There seems to be no end to how far we can go. I see myself becoming who I want to become; so does he.
+ He cares about my needs, but also about his own; in this relationship I do the same for me; we are able to have conversations about this and balance the needs of the relationship against our own needs.
+ I don't feel I am giving up anything important to me by being with him. Rather, this relationship is a gift.
+ I am excited about our future together. I look forward to the coming decades.
That sounds like a lot, and maybe hard to internalize until you've felt it yourself, but it is possible to have these qualities in a relationship. In really good relationships, both parties flower. They make the world safe for one another and then they both jump in. They have each other's backs.
You definitely have a lot a lot of good things going on, but a lot of them -- kindness, communication, connection, being there for you -- are kind of baseline level. All good relationships have these qualities, and in fact if any of these weren't present, it would cease to be a functioning relationship. It's a good sign that these things are present, but it's not worth sacrificing yourself to preserve a relationship that is just hitting the baseline. Things can go SO MUCH deeper than this.
I am not necessarily saying leave, but I think it is time you decided that a deeper level of intimacy is something you are ready for, and that means identifying and valuing your needs and putting them out there. The life you see for yourself in the future is not very compatible with the live he is living right now. You need to know that if you choose to live together, he will take care of his health, he will be active, he will clean up, he will be engaged with the world, because you want a partner, not a ward. You need feel a sense of growth rather than stagnation. Progression and aliveness. These things matter to you and they should matter. You are worried about him, not just because of your future, but also his. See if he can hear them. Maybe he feels stuck himself and just needs an opening to talk about this. Perhaps the two of you can go deeper than you have. Or, maybe you can't, but it's worth a try.
posted by PercussivePaul at 8:12 AM on October 15, 2014 [28 favorites]
I read something on here once that I thought was a really valuable relationship advice. The commenter said something like you have to look at each day and ask yourself if the positives outweigh the negatives at that moment. Are you happy right now? If the answer if yes, you keep going. Don't try to predict the future. No one knows how people will turn out. If the answer starts being no, day after day, then you know it's time to leave.
Small additional note - when people break up romantically, they also lose a close friend. he's probably become a really close friend to you after three years, and that comforting friendship may be what is difficult to lose. in the end, you can't have a romantic relationship that is only based on friendship.
posted by monologish at 8:24 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
Small additional note - when people break up romantically, they also lose a close friend. he's probably become a really close friend to you after three years, and that comforting friendship may be what is difficult to lose. in the end, you can't have a romantic relationship that is only based on friendship.
posted by monologish at 8:24 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
or "what if there's a better relationship out there,"
You feel this way because there is.
posted by French Fry at 9:19 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
You feel this way because there is.
posted by French Fry at 9:19 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
He sounds like a fine friend, but a terrible choice for a partner. He has not finished growing up. He may never finish it. You don't have a lifetime to wait to find out.
Do you want to marry someone who will make you bear the whole burden of bills/money/other responsibilities? No matter how nice he is, that stuff will grind you down. Add a child or two and you are in crazy-making territory. Imagine trying to teach a child responsibility while Dad wallows around doing nothing and never cleaning up. How well will that go? Not very.
There are minor issues one can overlook like "doesn't share my taste in movies" or "has a fondness for a weird food I don't get." Then there are major ones like everything you mentioned.
Life as an adult can be hard, lonely, and expensive. Deaths in the family, medical issues, job losses, midlife crises, work stress, family stress--at least some of these things are likely to hit you. They are hard enough when you have a willing and working partner carrying their bit--even then, marriages sometimes crumble under the stress. When you have a partner who can't or won't, then you are the one who crumbles. Being single, in comparison, is easier. Not that I think those are your only two options. I think it's very possible that giving up this comfortable but non-working relationship will open up the possibility of a better one.
Best of luck to you.
posted by emjaybee at 9:22 AM on October 15, 2014 [5 favorites]
Do you want to marry someone who will make you bear the whole burden of bills/money/other responsibilities? No matter how nice he is, that stuff will grind you down. Add a child or two and you are in crazy-making territory. Imagine trying to teach a child responsibility while Dad wallows around doing nothing and never cleaning up. How well will that go? Not very.
There are minor issues one can overlook like "doesn't share my taste in movies" or "has a fondness for a weird food I don't get." Then there are major ones like everything you mentioned.
Life as an adult can be hard, lonely, and expensive. Deaths in the family, medical issues, job losses, midlife crises, work stress, family stress--at least some of these things are likely to hit you. They are hard enough when you have a willing and working partner carrying their bit--even then, marriages sometimes crumble under the stress. When you have a partner who can't or won't, then you are the one who crumbles. Being single, in comparison, is easier. Not that I think those are your only two options. I think it's very possible that giving up this comfortable but non-working relationship will open up the possibility of a better one.
Best of luck to you.
posted by emjaybee at 9:22 AM on October 15, 2014 [5 favorites]
+ he'll be an excellent father, at least from the emotional standpoint, though perhaps not in terms of responsibilities
Good lord, being a parent is nothing BUT responsibility! I'm 11 weeks into parenthood, and as wonderful and sweetly emotional a time as this has been for me and my (SAINTLY) husband, we are barely holding onto our sanity, and that's when you have two parents who are in nearly 100% agreement and coordination about everything. Managing your emotions is a major responsibility in and of itself.
No, no, no, N to the O, no.
posted by Madamina at 9:28 AM on October 15, 2014 [8 favorites]
Good lord, being a parent is nothing BUT responsibility! I'm 11 weeks into parenthood, and as wonderful and sweetly emotional a time as this has been for me and my (SAINTLY) husband, we are barely holding onto our sanity, and that's when you have two parents who are in nearly 100% agreement and coordination about everything. Managing your emotions is a major responsibility in and of itself.
No, no, no, N to the O, no.
posted by Madamina at 9:28 AM on October 15, 2014 [8 favorites]
Nearly two years ago, I was in a very similar position to yours. I have some anonymous questions here on the green about my boyfriend, actually. Same issues, in our 20s and both parties have difficulties with finding a stable work situation due to (1) terrible job market (2) lack of professional networks (3) depression/anxiety/other mental health disorders.
He was precious to me. I felt like no one could understand me better than him, and he was so supportive and sensitive even though his own precarious financial situation stressed me to no end. We were in the same boat and we understood each other really well, but I think it was rather too well.
When I left the country for a month to travel, I realized the major life changes I had to make, and that he wasn't going to be part of it. I didn't even miss him when I was travelling. I realized that he was a source of comfort--I played video games with him and we enjoyed together the small pleasures of life in the face of terrifying times--but he was not the right partner to stay with in this new stage of my life.
I broke up with him. It also helps that I moved to a new country, so I was occupied with adjusting to things rather than dealing with the break up. It was one of the wisest decisions in my life. Looking back, we were way too similar and we held each other back. When both partners are unemployed and depressed, it's really hard to get out of your rut.
I ended up becoming more like him, and being focused on trying to change him, and dealing with my anxiety over our core incompatibilities instead of putting that energy into improving my own life. I don't know where the similarities in our situations starts and ends, but leaving him was something I needed. I've had two partners since then, and while no relationship is perfect, every subsequent relationship I had after comfortable but financially unstable guy was much, much better.
My life isn't perfect right now. My work situation could still be a lot better, and I've become unemployed again. But I feel like I have much more energy and resources to fix this bout of unemployment compared to the time with financially unstable boyfriend. He's not around to sap my mental energies anymore.
The person I'm seeing right now works freelance from home. He also plays video games and could be more clean but he's financially stable, and concerns about money or whether he can take care of himself is far from my mind. I can focus on enjoying my time with him instead of worrying about his future, and that's how it should be.
I worry about my work situation, but he doesn't worry about his. We just had a fancy dinner tonight on a whim and I tasted foie gras for the first time. He footed the bill for the foie gras. We're talking about inexpensive trips out of the city. I'm still as unemployed as when I was two years ago, but I'm at a happier place and seeing someone who I'm more comfortable with.
Okay, the foie gras on him was a nice treat, but even if there's no foie gras or fancy dinner, dating someone who's financially stable is the best treat ever. You don't have to be a super high-achieving employed career woman to date a financially stable guy. You can date a financially stable guy whenever, so long as you can take care of yourself and financially stable guy is willing to roll with the cheap dates.
Financially unstable ex and financially stable current date are actually hugely similar to each other. Current date is just more stable (financially and in other ways), funnier, and doesn't suffer from a mental health disorder. It's not perfect, but there's less anxiety and drama. I wouldn't have met him if I had still clung on on financially unstable ex.
This has been a long ramble, but basically:
1. Two unemployed people dating each other is not that great
2. You don't need to "level up together" with your financially unstable boyfriend
3. I'm unemployed again but I'm happier than when I was with financially unstable boyfriend
4. I'm currently dating a financially stable guy with many of my ex's positive traits, and you probably can too
5. Only worrying about your future (instead of also your partner's) makes life so much easier
I'm not telling you to break up with your boyfriend ASAP, but deeply reflect on this and set a deadline. Like, three months from now, you'll accept him as he is or you'll move on. You need to put your anxieties and doubts to rest, and that's only possible with either a complete paradigm shift or a different situation altogether.
Feel free to memail me if you want to talk.
posted by Hawk V at 9:41 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
He was precious to me. I felt like no one could understand me better than him, and he was so supportive and sensitive even though his own precarious financial situation stressed me to no end. We were in the same boat and we understood each other really well, but I think it was rather too well.
When I left the country for a month to travel, I realized the major life changes I had to make, and that he wasn't going to be part of it. I didn't even miss him when I was travelling. I realized that he was a source of comfort--I played video games with him and we enjoyed together the small pleasures of life in the face of terrifying times--but he was not the right partner to stay with in this new stage of my life.
I broke up with him. It also helps that I moved to a new country, so I was occupied with adjusting to things rather than dealing with the break up. It was one of the wisest decisions in my life. Looking back, we were way too similar and we held each other back. When both partners are unemployed and depressed, it's really hard to get out of your rut.
I ended up becoming more like him, and being focused on trying to change him, and dealing with my anxiety over our core incompatibilities instead of putting that energy into improving my own life. I don't know where the similarities in our situations starts and ends, but leaving him was something I needed. I've had two partners since then, and while no relationship is perfect, every subsequent relationship I had after comfortable but financially unstable guy was much, much better.
My life isn't perfect right now. My work situation could still be a lot better, and I've become unemployed again. But I feel like I have much more energy and resources to fix this bout of unemployment compared to the time with financially unstable boyfriend. He's not around to sap my mental energies anymore.
The person I'm seeing right now works freelance from home. He also plays video games and could be more clean but he's financially stable, and concerns about money or whether he can take care of himself is far from my mind. I can focus on enjoying my time with him instead of worrying about his future, and that's how it should be.
I worry about my work situation, but he doesn't worry about his. We just had a fancy dinner tonight on a whim and I tasted foie gras for the first time. He footed the bill for the foie gras. We're talking about inexpensive trips out of the city. I'm still as unemployed as when I was two years ago, but I'm at a happier place and seeing someone who I'm more comfortable with.
Okay, the foie gras on him was a nice treat, but even if there's no foie gras or fancy dinner, dating someone who's financially stable is the best treat ever. You don't have to be a super high-achieving employed career woman to date a financially stable guy. You can date a financially stable guy whenever, so long as you can take care of yourself and financially stable guy is willing to roll with the cheap dates.
Financially unstable ex and financially stable current date are actually hugely similar to each other. Current date is just more stable (financially and in other ways), funnier, and doesn't suffer from a mental health disorder. It's not perfect, but there's less anxiety and drama. I wouldn't have met him if I had still clung on on financially unstable ex.
This has been a long ramble, but basically:
1. Two unemployed people dating each other is not that great
2. You don't need to "level up together" with your financially unstable boyfriend
3. I'm unemployed again but I'm happier than when I was with financially unstable boyfriend
4. I'm currently dating a financially stable guy with many of my ex's positive traits, and you probably can too
5. Only worrying about your future (instead of also your partner's) makes life so much easier
I'm not telling you to break up with your boyfriend ASAP, but deeply reflect on this and set a deadline. Like, three months from now, you'll accept him as he is or you'll move on. You need to put your anxieties and doubts to rest, and that's only possible with either a complete paradigm shift or a different situation altogether.
Feel free to memail me if you want to talk.
posted by Hawk V at 9:41 AM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
I disagree with everyone saying to leave.
You say you're no catch. I think you may not be giving yourself enough credit, but it is true that having low self-esteem is a hard place to start a new relationship from. I think leaving RIGHT THIS INSTANT will plunge you into joblessness AND boyfriendlessness, and probably depression.
What you need to do is work on yourself. You don't have to break up with him to do that. But you do need to be motivated, strong, and self-focused.
It may be that once you're making the money, you don't need him to be the breadwinner as much and are okay with his role. It may be that once you're making the money, your dream man comes along. It may be that once you're making the money he realizes what he can lose and gets his act together.
Focus on improving your life as if you were single (though you are not) for the next month. Then reevaluate.
posted by quincunx at 10:26 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
You say you're no catch. I think you may not be giving yourself enough credit, but it is true that having low self-esteem is a hard place to start a new relationship from. I think leaving RIGHT THIS INSTANT will plunge you into joblessness AND boyfriendlessness, and probably depression.
What you need to do is work on yourself. You don't have to break up with him to do that. But you do need to be motivated, strong, and self-focused.
It may be that once you're making the money, you don't need him to be the breadwinner as much and are okay with his role. It may be that once you're making the money, your dream man comes along. It may be that once you're making the money he realizes what he can lose and gets his act together.
Focus on improving your life as if you were single (though you are not) for the next month. Then reevaluate.
posted by quincunx at 10:26 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
Also just want to add: if you don't want to break up with him, don't break up with him. Don't feel like you must because other people are telling you to. If you really, really don't want to, don't. It will work itself out in time and you will either want to break up on your own gut instinct eventually, or you'll work out the problems in the relationship.
People here are very good at giving people permission to leave bad relationships. It doesn't sound to me like that's really what you want though. It sounds to me like you want the things you are supposed to want- success, job, someone to show off to parents- but also want him as a person. I think more soul-searching is in order. Mid 20s are a difficult and often fluctuating time.
posted by quincunx at 10:43 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
People here are very good at giving people permission to leave bad relationships. It doesn't sound to me like that's really what you want though. It sounds to me like you want the things you are supposed to want- success, job, someone to show off to parents- but also want him as a person. I think more soul-searching is in order. Mid 20s are a difficult and often fluctuating time.
posted by quincunx at 10:43 AM on October 15, 2014 [3 favorites]
You have a list of positive things and a list of negative things. Figure out what you value more: the things in the positive list, or in the negative list.
It sounds like your guy has a lot of good qualities. The things in your positive list are pretty much core character traits. The things in your negative list ... well, I see most of those as changeable, *if* he's on board with making some changes. Have you talked to him about those things? Does he know you want him to have a healthier lifestyle, broader interests, etc? If he moved into your place, would some of these things change? Like, would he clean up more in your space? Would he eat healthier if you guys prepared meals together?
As for the job ... well, he's not going to be unemployed forever, right? Is money really important to you? Do you expect to use his income for your needs? It's dangerous to be financially dependent on someone else; women especially seem to fall into this trap. You have to be able to stand on your own two feet -- don't ever depend on someone else for long-term financial support.
Do you feel that you'd be better off staying with him, or better off being alone? Never assume that you'll find someone else with all the same positive traits and fewer/none of the negative traits.
posted by phoenix_rising at 11:51 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
It sounds like your guy has a lot of good qualities. The things in your positive list are pretty much core character traits. The things in your negative list ... well, I see most of those as changeable, *if* he's on board with making some changes. Have you talked to him about those things? Does he know you want him to have a healthier lifestyle, broader interests, etc? If he moved into your place, would some of these things change? Like, would he clean up more in your space? Would he eat healthier if you guys prepared meals together?
As for the job ... well, he's not going to be unemployed forever, right? Is money really important to you? Do you expect to use his income for your needs? It's dangerous to be financially dependent on someone else; women especially seem to fall into this trap. You have to be able to stand on your own two feet -- don't ever depend on someone else for long-term financial support.
Do you feel that you'd be better off staying with him, or better off being alone? Never assume that you'll find someone else with all the same positive traits and fewer/none of the negative traits.
posted by phoenix_rising at 11:51 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm mulling over these excellent answers. Thanks for listening, everyone.
(If you were curious --
1) he's 24, I'm 23
2) we lived together for a month when my landlord was arrested and his property seized (yeah, I know), and we didn't drive each other totally nuts then... but he did still have a job at that point, even though he didn't love it
3) I'm not interested in a man to take care of me financially, I just want to not worry about him paying his bills, which he's gotten better at but sometimes puts off WAY past the point of comfort
4) I feel he's made me more laid-back, more comfortable with myself, less depressed, but I've also picked up a lot of his irresponsibility. I budget less frequently, I make daily schedules less frequently; it's simply easier to go to his house and eat a pizza than do anything else, which is pretty dangerous.)
I don't think I can call it just yet, though my gut is telling me that maybe I should. I think a nice compromise between gut and heart is maybe trying what a few of you suggested - set a deadline, chat with him about things (we definitely have talked about all of this before, but give some of it another go), work on my own life as if I was single, and then see where we are in a short while.
Feelings. Sigh.
posted by noteasyisit at 12:24 PM on October 15, 2014
(If you were curious --
1) he's 24, I'm 23
2) we lived together for a month when my landlord was arrested and his property seized (yeah, I know), and we didn't drive each other totally nuts then... but he did still have a job at that point, even though he didn't love it
3) I'm not interested in a man to take care of me financially, I just want to not worry about him paying his bills, which he's gotten better at but sometimes puts off WAY past the point of comfort
4) I feel he's made me more laid-back, more comfortable with myself, less depressed, but I've also picked up a lot of his irresponsibility. I budget less frequently, I make daily schedules less frequently; it's simply easier to go to his house and eat a pizza than do anything else, which is pretty dangerous.)
I don't think I can call it just yet, though my gut is telling me that maybe I should. I think a nice compromise between gut and heart is maybe trying what a few of you suggested - set a deadline, chat with him about things (we definitely have talked about all of this before, but give some of it another go), work on my own life as if I was single, and then see where we are in a short while.
Feelings. Sigh.
posted by noteasyisit at 12:24 PM on October 15, 2014
I'm not interested in a man to take care of me financially, I just want to not worry about him paying his bills
You mention kids. Let me tell you how the above is totally fine when you're 23 but totally not OK when you are ready to rear children, be that at 28 or 35 or whatever. If you are parenting together, the bills become your joint bills. You need to be able to share responsibilities with an adult who can not only carry their own shit, but half the additional load of a tiny human. It sounds like this guy can't really deal with half his own load.
Let me also tell you about the realities of cohabiting adulthood between men and women. Whatever the intentions of a given household, on average women do 82% of housework and devote twice as much time to childcare. You are unlikely to ever find even the best intentioned, most motivated partner ever to help split these burdens equally. But for the love of God, do not knowingly burden yourself with someone who is so vastly far behind on what needs to be brought to the party of adulthood.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:43 PM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
You mention kids. Let me tell you how the above is totally fine when you're 23 but totally not OK when you are ready to rear children, be that at 28 or 35 or whatever. If you are parenting together, the bills become your joint bills. You need to be able to share responsibilities with an adult who can not only carry their own shit, but half the additional load of a tiny human. It sounds like this guy can't really deal with half his own load.
Let me also tell you about the realities of cohabiting adulthood between men and women. Whatever the intentions of a given household, on average women do 82% of housework and devote twice as much time to childcare. You are unlikely to ever find even the best intentioned, most motivated partner ever to help split these burdens equally. But for the love of God, do not knowingly burden yourself with someone who is so vastly far behind on what needs to be brought to the party of adulthood.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:43 PM on October 15, 2014 [4 favorites]
I get a sense from your comments that you feel like breaking up with someone is a referendum on them being "bad" in some way or an insult to them. But it's not -- it just means you realized this isn't the right primary relationship for you. You can break up with someone you still like and respect. You don't need to wait for a "real, serious dealbreaker" to make breaking up justified if you're not feeling compatible & fulfilled (and, it sounds like you're not).
posted by anotherthink at 2:57 PM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by anotherthink at 2:57 PM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
Don't set a deadline. Just go. He is who he is. Maya Angelou said,"When someone shows you who they are, believe them."
I have a crystal ball and I looked into it on your behalf and this is what I saw:
You got married and had a child together. He still can't find a job he can stand for more than two months, poor fellow, so you had to go back to work just 6 weeks after your daughter was born and he stays home with her. Maybe you can't stand your job either but you HAVE to keep it because someone has to pay the rent and buy food, and it isn't going to be him. Every day you come home from work and you're exhausted. You walk into the house and it's more of a mess than when you left 8 hours ago. The baby is crying, she needs to be changed, the sink is full of dirty dishes, and your husband is sitting on the couch playing video games.
If you think you're not attracted to him now, just wait. Please stop hoping for him to be the guy you think he can be. He is who he is.
Your gut is there for a reason. Listen to it. And listen to me: You ARE a catch. You are beautiful, glorious, intelligent and ambitious. You deserve much happiness. You deserve a partner in every sense of the word. You are young and awesome and should be out having a blast right now. Seek out people who make your world bigger - who have interesting ideas, and are doing meaningful things. This guy ain't doing shit. He's bringing you down. Move forward.
GO YOU!
posted by Kangaroo at 3:36 PM on October 15, 2014 [6 favorites]
I have a crystal ball and I looked into it on your behalf and this is what I saw:
You got married and had a child together. He still can't find a job he can stand for more than two months, poor fellow, so you had to go back to work just 6 weeks after your daughter was born and he stays home with her. Maybe you can't stand your job either but you HAVE to keep it because someone has to pay the rent and buy food, and it isn't going to be him. Every day you come home from work and you're exhausted. You walk into the house and it's more of a mess than when you left 8 hours ago. The baby is crying, she needs to be changed, the sink is full of dirty dishes, and your husband is sitting on the couch playing video games.
If you think you're not attracted to him now, just wait. Please stop hoping for him to be the guy you think he can be. He is who he is.
Your gut is there for a reason. Listen to it. And listen to me: You ARE a catch. You are beautiful, glorious, intelligent and ambitious. You deserve much happiness. You deserve a partner in every sense of the word. You are young and awesome and should be out having a blast right now. Seek out people who make your world bigger - who have interesting ideas, and are doing meaningful things. This guy ain't doing shit. He's bringing you down. Move forward.
GO YOU!
posted by Kangaroo at 3:36 PM on October 15, 2014 [6 favorites]
Please read Madamina's comment twice an hour until it sinks in.
Do not have children with an irresponsible partner. You get to make an adult choice, right or wrong. Your potential children don't get that choice.
Children deserve two functioning adults, each pulling their own weight and equipped to also bear the weight of the children. Have children with an irresponsible partner and you will bear the weight of the world. Trust me on this.
posted by headnsouth at 3:58 PM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
Do not have children with an irresponsible partner. You get to make an adult choice, right or wrong. Your potential children don't get that choice.
Children deserve two functioning adults, each pulling their own weight and equipped to also bear the weight of the children. Have children with an irresponsible partner and you will bear the weight of the world. Trust me on this.
posted by headnsouth at 3:58 PM on October 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
Children deserve two functioning adults
Or alternatively, children deserve one fully functioning adult prepared to carry the load of adulthood and the load of parenthood, without having to also carry the load of another adult dependent.
The first year of a child's life is one of the top ten life stressors. There is a reason relationships fail at that juncture.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:15 PM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
Or alternatively, children deserve one fully functioning adult prepared to carry the load of adulthood and the load of parenthood, without having to also carry the load of another adult dependent.
The first year of a child's life is one of the top ten life stressors. There is a reason relationships fail at that juncture.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:15 PM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
There are plenty of kind people that you can love in your life, but it doesn't really sound like either of you is in the space to be in a relationship right now. If you got together in college, you had that casual, hang-out kind of deal, and he's trying to stay in that world. No responsibilities, hanging out, being lazy as fuck and doing a whole lot of nothing.
As women we're taught that on one hand, the man should be a breadwinner; but modern women have this weird idea that it's okay to float their boyfriends/husbands if they're nice guys because hey, why be sexist about it? Well, when men supported women, women were actually doing work at home. Rearing children, running the home, volunteering in the community. They were partners, each shouldering their share of the work.
When my grandfather was drafted during WWII, my grandmother held it together with two young boys, and a job selling dresses on the side. She worked her ASS off!
If we could envision your young man as an enterprising sort, out hustling to get a job, keeping things neat and tidy at home, and not being a slovenly layabout, well, it would be a different kettle of fish. Similarly, you're indulging in something where you're faffing around with applying to jobs sort of kind of.
Here's what I recommend. Get a job as a server or barrista. Get out of the house and earn some money. Activity breeds activity and so it is with jobs. Money coming in is NEVER a bad thing. Hell, take the bar-rush shift at Dennys, at least it'll be interesting. Model the behavior you want to see.
Set a schedule where you apply for jobs for 4 hours a day (I did this when I was out of work.) Go for walks, work out or get some physical activity every day. Don't turn the TV on until after 6:00 PM.
Devote a couple of hours a day to housework, especially if you live with your parents. Embody the gratitude you have for them for allowing you to return home. Volunteer a few hours a week. Hold babies in the NICU at your local hospital, file at a non-profit, answer phones for the fall pledge drive.
Start living as an adult, even if you're still at home. At some point you're going to have a disconnect. If he gets his shit together, great...you can see where it goes. If he doesn't and you do, the gulf between you will widen and suddenly you'll know it's time to end things.
But don't let him pull you down. Fight the urge to succumb to the urge to laze about.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:31 PM on October 15, 2014 [5 favorites]
As women we're taught that on one hand, the man should be a breadwinner; but modern women have this weird idea that it's okay to float their boyfriends/husbands if they're nice guys because hey, why be sexist about it? Well, when men supported women, women were actually doing work at home. Rearing children, running the home, volunteering in the community. They were partners, each shouldering their share of the work.
When my grandfather was drafted during WWII, my grandmother held it together with two young boys, and a job selling dresses on the side. She worked her ASS off!
If we could envision your young man as an enterprising sort, out hustling to get a job, keeping things neat and tidy at home, and not being a slovenly layabout, well, it would be a different kettle of fish. Similarly, you're indulging in something where you're faffing around with applying to jobs sort of kind of.
Here's what I recommend. Get a job as a server or barrista. Get out of the house and earn some money. Activity breeds activity and so it is with jobs. Money coming in is NEVER a bad thing. Hell, take the bar-rush shift at Dennys, at least it'll be interesting. Model the behavior you want to see.
Set a schedule where you apply for jobs for 4 hours a day (I did this when I was out of work.) Go for walks, work out or get some physical activity every day. Don't turn the TV on until after 6:00 PM.
Devote a couple of hours a day to housework, especially if you live with your parents. Embody the gratitude you have for them for allowing you to return home. Volunteer a few hours a week. Hold babies in the NICU at your local hospital, file at a non-profit, answer phones for the fall pledge drive.
Start living as an adult, even if you're still at home. At some point you're going to have a disconnect. If he gets his shit together, great...you can see where it goes. If he doesn't and you do, the gulf between you will widen and suddenly you'll know it's time to end things.
But don't let him pull you down. Fight the urge to succumb to the urge to laze about.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:31 PM on October 15, 2014 [5 favorites]
The things that are postives are wonderful, I wish I could find someone like that. But, the negatives are also things I would be unable to live with, I understand your fear and concern because he does do a lot of things that you love and "right," so you almost second guess yourself.
Being lazy, and unmotivated is a huge issue for me (and for you it seems), and I was with an ex husband who had those traits but I stuck with him. They never changed, and he always lived on the edge, wasn't healthy and was lazy. Maybe have a talk and ask him where he sees himself in a few years, maybe hes just going through a phase in his life, but if this has been him for the last 3 years I would sort of bank on him remaining the same. It also depends on age...men mature with age, but not at the same pace as we women do. But, what is important to him will probably not change, so if he doesn't care about a mess or living in filth, he probably wont change that. If that is something you coulnd't live with and he isn't willing to work on, then it wont work. Really list the pros and cons, and on that pro list if it is things that just make your life easier (errands, helping you, etc.) and hasn't motivated you to be your best self or to always push yourself forward, then I would say it's probably best to cut ties now. Maybe with some time apart you will see things differently.
posted by DMVgirl at 11:00 AM on October 22, 2014
Being lazy, and unmotivated is a huge issue for me (and for you it seems), and I was with an ex husband who had those traits but I stuck with him. They never changed, and he always lived on the edge, wasn't healthy and was lazy. Maybe have a talk and ask him where he sees himself in a few years, maybe hes just going through a phase in his life, but if this has been him for the last 3 years I would sort of bank on him remaining the same. It also depends on age...men mature with age, but not at the same pace as we women do. But, what is important to him will probably not change, so if he doesn't care about a mess or living in filth, he probably wont change that. If that is something you coulnd't live with and he isn't willing to work on, then it wont work. Really list the pros and cons, and on that pro list if it is things that just make your life easier (errands, helping you, etc.) and hasn't motivated you to be your best self or to always push yourself forward, then I would say it's probably best to cut ties now. Maybe with some time apart you will see things differently.
posted by DMVgirl at 11:00 AM on October 22, 2014
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Here's a thought experiment: pretend that you're reading this AskMe except that he wrote it about you.
How would you feel knowing that he thought you were lazy, disgusting, lacking any ambition, unwilling to work and physically unattractive?
You'd be thinking, "Well, move on, buddy."
Move on, buddy.
posted by kinetic at 3:10 AM on October 15, 2014 [25 favorites]