Finally had the "marriage" talk with long term boyfriend
October 14, 2014 11:17 AM Subscribe
Do our expectations of when to get married one day match up?
As some of you know, my previous question I asked about bringing up the topic with my boyfriend on if he ever saw us getting married and when. I finally was able to bring it up this past Saturday after a really nice time together eating out and seeing a movie.
I casually brought it up after we ate and I think it took him by surprise and he joked asking if I was proposing to him. I told him I was serious and it's important for me to know so that I know if we are on the same page. He nodded and said yes...asked if I could see the same. I said, "Well yeah, why would I stick around if I couldn't?"
So I asked him when he could see himself getting married if I were to get an age range. (He's 24 and I'm 25...our birthdays are January and February so it's coming up soon) He told me 27-32 which now that I'm thinking is a bit of a broad range...anything 30+ is too old for me. Past 30 is us dating for 10 years! I told him 27-30 but I don't think I emphasized enough how I would strongly prefer before 30. I'm not sure why he chose that age.
So I guess some where along the lines of 28-29 for me and him 27-28 matches up but not the 30+. Do you think our expectations are vastly different? I think this conversation will have to be revisited some time again soon.
I'm not trying to get married soon because I want to have our own place and a good job. Right now he does seem to be hating his job and want a new job and also head back to school to finish which won't be for another 6-8 years if so.
Also, we're thinking of trying to get our own place in a couple years whether it's apt or condo out of his family's house...once I find a job so I can save some money. It's been hard to get a job since I've been laid off.
As some of you know, my previous question I asked about bringing up the topic with my boyfriend on if he ever saw us getting married and when. I finally was able to bring it up this past Saturday after a really nice time together eating out and seeing a movie.
I casually brought it up after we ate and I think it took him by surprise and he joked asking if I was proposing to him. I told him I was serious and it's important for me to know so that I know if we are on the same page. He nodded and said yes...asked if I could see the same. I said, "Well yeah, why would I stick around if I couldn't?"
So I asked him when he could see himself getting married if I were to get an age range. (He's 24 and I'm 25...our birthdays are January and February so it's coming up soon) He told me 27-32 which now that I'm thinking is a bit of a broad range...anything 30+ is too old for me. Past 30 is us dating for 10 years! I told him 27-30 but I don't think I emphasized enough how I would strongly prefer before 30. I'm not sure why he chose that age.
So I guess some where along the lines of 28-29 for me and him 27-28 matches up but not the 30+. Do you think our expectations are vastly different? I think this conversation will have to be revisited some time again soon.
I'm not trying to get married soon because I want to have our own place and a good job. Right now he does seem to be hating his job and want a new job and also head back to school to finish which won't be for another 6-8 years if so.
Also, we're thinking of trying to get our own place in a couple years whether it's apt or condo out of his family's house...once I find a job so I can save some money. It's been hard to get a job since I've been laid off.
I think looking at an age range is kind of a funny way to look at this. Yes, in theory one might have an "ideal" age range, but you can't plan when you meet a person that you want to marry! I think the important things match up here:
* you both want to get married in an abstract sense
* you both see the potential to marry one another
* neither of you is ready for a proposal/marriage right now
It's good to have these talks and to continue to check in. But given that neither of you is ready for the committment of marriage right now, I wouldn't stress out over it. This becomes a more major issue if a) one of you gets to the point of feeling like you want to either get married or move on, or b) one of you decides to end the relationship for whatever reason/decides they can never see the relationship moving toward marriage. At this point, it sounds like you're pretty compatible.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:29 AM on October 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
* you both want to get married in an abstract sense
* you both see the potential to marry one another
* neither of you is ready for a proposal/marriage right now
It's good to have these talks and to continue to check in. But given that neither of you is ready for the committment of marriage right now, I wouldn't stress out over it. This becomes a more major issue if a) one of you gets to the point of feeling like you want to either get married or move on, or b) one of you decides to end the relationship for whatever reason/decides they can never see the relationship moving toward marriage. At this point, it sounds like you're pretty compatible.
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:29 AM on October 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
Do you want kids? Does he want kids? That affects the timetable quite a bit.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:30 AM on October 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:30 AM on October 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
You are overthinking this so much.
For one thing, the difference between 27 and 30 doesn't really matter, in "how old a person is" terms.
Also, I'm 33, and the things I wanted to have done by 30 look so silly to me now. Don't even pretend that you can fathom what the next 6 years hold.
Thirdly, wait, you guys don't even live together yet, and aren't thinking of doing that for another couple years? You're heavily jumping the gun.
Fourthly, if your boyfriend has 6-8 more years of school, hasn't started the program in question yet, is 25, and cannot in any way imagine getting married before that is done, my guess is that he isn't actually that serious about marrying you. Not that he doesn't want to marry you, but, well, 25 year old dudes (in my experience) tend to take a much longer view of getting set up in life and settling down than similarly aged women do. He wants to get married "someday". Which is neat and all, but, well, people who want to get married "someday" are generally not looking to get married anytime soon.
Fifthly, you are way too marriage-minded for someone who wants to maybe get married within the next 3-5 years. Slow down! Enjoy being in your 20s and going through the stages of your relationship at the pace they're actually happening.
posted by Sara C. at 11:32 AM on October 14, 2014 [34 favorites]
For one thing, the difference between 27 and 30 doesn't really matter, in "how old a person is" terms.
Also, I'm 33, and the things I wanted to have done by 30 look so silly to me now. Don't even pretend that you can fathom what the next 6 years hold.
Thirdly, wait, you guys don't even live together yet, and aren't thinking of doing that for another couple years? You're heavily jumping the gun.
Fourthly, if your boyfriend has 6-8 more years of school, hasn't started the program in question yet, is 25, and cannot in any way imagine getting married before that is done, my guess is that he isn't actually that serious about marrying you. Not that he doesn't want to marry you, but, well, 25 year old dudes (in my experience) tend to take a much longer view of getting set up in life and settling down than similarly aged women do. He wants to get married "someday". Which is neat and all, but, well, people who want to get married "someday" are generally not looking to get married anytime soon.
Fifthly, you are way too marriage-minded for someone who wants to maybe get married within the next 3-5 years. Slow down! Enjoy being in your 20s and going through the stages of your relationship at the pace they're actually happening.
posted by Sara C. at 11:32 AM on October 14, 2014 [34 favorites]
Find out if a long engagement is something that is better for the both of you if you're sure this is the guy you want to marry. It seems some guys aren't even thinking of settling down before 30, but everyone is different. Be sure though, because the more entangled you become, the harder it'll be to part ways if the proposal never comes. Things change and time isn't something you can get back if things don't turn out the way you want. So tell him he's gotta commit or you're on to greener pastures?
posted by lunastellasol at 11:32 AM on October 14, 2014
posted by lunastellasol at 11:32 AM on October 14, 2014
My impression is that "when am I going to get married?" is something you think about a lot, and he thinks about very little. If it's important to you, you need to keep talking with him about it. If you want to be married when you're 28 or 29, you presumably want to be engaged a year or two from now. If that's really important to you (and given how many questions you've asked about it here, it certainly seems to be), you should make that clear to him.
So, talk to him about it again. You need to pay attention to what he says, and follow up on the questions you ask, even if (especially if!) you're afraid you don't have common goals. Don't be vague. Do you know *why* it's so important to you to get married before 30? Maybe it's about having kids - either potential fertility issues or not wanting to be an "old parent." Maybe it's about not wanting to be the only unmarried couple among your friends/family. Or maybe you just feel stalled in the relationship and want some reassurance that you're making "progress."
Something about the way you approach this just bothers me though... it could just be the way you ask the questions, but it feels like you really need to step back and think about what you really want and why. Are you sure *this* is the guy you want to marry three years from now? I get such a weird feeling from your questions. I mean I guess all things being equal I would have liked to have been married before I was 30, but I absolutely, definitely had not met anyone I wanted to marry by then. You seem really hung up on things that don't seem important from the outside.
posted by mskyle at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
So, talk to him about it again. You need to pay attention to what he says, and follow up on the questions you ask, even if (especially if!) you're afraid you don't have common goals. Don't be vague. Do you know *why* it's so important to you to get married before 30? Maybe it's about having kids - either potential fertility issues or not wanting to be an "old parent." Maybe it's about not wanting to be the only unmarried couple among your friends/family. Or maybe you just feel stalled in the relationship and want some reassurance that you're making "progress."
Something about the way you approach this just bothers me though... it could just be the way you ask the questions, but it feels like you really need to step back and think about what you really want and why. Are you sure *this* is the guy you want to marry three years from now? I get such a weird feeling from your questions. I mean I guess all things being equal I would have liked to have been married before I was 30, but I absolutely, definitely had not met anyone I wanted to marry by then. You seem really hung up on things that don't seem important from the outside.
posted by mskyle at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
I don't think arbitrary age ranges are really helpful for this. You need to both (a) dissect your feelings on this a bit more and (b) have many more conversations with him about this and other serious topics.
Why is 30 a cutoff age for you? Is is because you want to have children? If so, does he? How many and at what ages or intervals? Does this mesh with your expectations and also biological realities?
Do you want to live together before marriage? If so, for how long?
How much do you want to spend on a wedding (or, rather, how big/small of a wedding do you want)? Will you be paying for it yourselves or will your parents chip in? How long do you need to save for wedding or housing expenses to reach your target goal?
Do you expect an engagement ring and, if so, what is the budget for that? How long would it take him (or both of you) to save for it? How long of an engagement do you envision?
Does he want to (or is it feasible) for him to be in school after you're married and/or cohabitating away from his family? What about once you have kids?
After kids, do you plan to work or stay at home? Does he plan to work or stay at home?
How will finances be handled? Jointly, separately, some combination thereof?
Are there other milestones that need to be met before marriage/kids? Student loans paid off? Retirement funds started? House purchased or significant down payment saved?
What I'm trying to get at is that the "age range" for marriage will be a result of doing the above analysis. Even once you do all of this, you have to ask: is there a cutoff age where if you don't meet your preconditions (e.g., you're still struggling financially and living with his parents), you get married and/or have children anyway?
posted by melissasaurus at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2014 [10 favorites]
Why is 30 a cutoff age for you? Is is because you want to have children? If so, does he? How many and at what ages or intervals? Does this mesh with your expectations and also biological realities?
Do you want to live together before marriage? If so, for how long?
How much do you want to spend on a wedding (or, rather, how big/small of a wedding do you want)? Will you be paying for it yourselves or will your parents chip in? How long do you need to save for wedding or housing expenses to reach your target goal?
Do you expect an engagement ring and, if so, what is the budget for that? How long would it take him (or both of you) to save for it? How long of an engagement do you envision?
Does he want to (or is it feasible) for him to be in school after you're married and/or cohabitating away from his family? What about once you have kids?
After kids, do you plan to work or stay at home? Does he plan to work or stay at home?
How will finances be handled? Jointly, separately, some combination thereof?
Are there other milestones that need to be met before marriage/kids? Student loans paid off? Retirement funds started? House purchased or significant down payment saved?
What I'm trying to get at is that the "age range" for marriage will be a result of doing the above analysis. Even once you do all of this, you have to ask: is there a cutoff age where if you don't meet your preconditions (e.g., you're still struggling financially and living with his parents), you get married and/or have children anyway?
posted by melissasaurus at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2014 [10 favorites]
Frankly, I do not think your BF has any real, serious idea of marrying you.
This may change in the future. He may think of you as a potential wife. However, there is nothing in this question or previous questions that indicate the reality if marriage is in his mind.
As an example, if you asked him how he would deal with having a hip replacement, he could probably answer. But that would not be a serious answer because in his imagination being an old man who needs a hip replacement is just not real.
Stay with him, break up with him, but I do not think you should see your current situation as leading to anything. Enjoy dating, support his studies, lean on him when you need to, but I fear that if you think your current situation is Freshman year and you are on your way to graduation - marriage - with this boyfriend there will be tough times ahead.
There are many good answers in this thread showing you the questions you should ask yourself and the conversations you should have with BF. Those answers are a gift.
No one is going to say "Bingo!" You have found the game move to complete level one and unlocked the next level, level up to marriage. There are a lot of things to think about - which thoughtful people have spelled out for you.
I hope this doesn't sound harsh. It is not meant to be.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:00 PM on October 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
This may change in the future. He may think of you as a potential wife. However, there is nothing in this question or previous questions that indicate the reality if marriage is in his mind.
As an example, if you asked him how he would deal with having a hip replacement, he could probably answer. But that would not be a serious answer because in his imagination being an old man who needs a hip replacement is just not real.
Stay with him, break up with him, but I do not think you should see your current situation as leading to anything. Enjoy dating, support his studies, lean on him when you need to, but I fear that if you think your current situation is Freshman year and you are on your way to graduation - marriage - with this boyfriend there will be tough times ahead.
There are many good answers in this thread showing you the questions you should ask yourself and the conversations you should have with BF. Those answers are a gift.
No one is going to say "Bingo!" You have found the game move to complete level one and unlocked the next level, level up to marriage. There are a lot of things to think about - which thoughtful people have spelled out for you.
I hope this doesn't sound harsh. It is not meant to be.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:00 PM on October 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: I guess I've been thinking about it lately because every where I turn people are getting engaged, married, having kids, etc. and I feel like my biological clock is ticking. I don't want kids or to get married now but before I'm 30 I'd like to see these things happen. By 30 maybe have a first kid... I guess I'm worried about fertility issues, complications, being an old parent if I can't have a kid right away and it ends up when I'm 34 or 35 where there could be potential risks increased.
We talked about that previously and thought at least 1 at most 3 is good..so I guess on average 2. Starting around 30 is good.. give or take a year before or after.
I'm just hoping I'm not strung along 6 years later and I'm still not married. This takes a lot more thought than I thought. I'm not wanting to get engaged right now but by next year or the year after would be ideal...
I just feel like my life is coming at me fast.
And I'm not just choosing anyone just because. I would never marry someone I didn't love, couldn't picture my life with, didn't make me happy, or wouldn't be a good father one day. We hold the same values, like the same things for the most part, etc.
By the way I'm not living with his parents...his mom lives with her husband about an hour away. My only milestone to getting married is have a job and being able to afford a place of our own. That's about it. Now I guess I need to figure out what his reasons are for those ages.
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 12:05 PM on October 14, 2014
We talked about that previously and thought at least 1 at most 3 is good..so I guess on average 2. Starting around 30 is good.. give or take a year before or after.
I'm just hoping I'm not strung along 6 years later and I'm still not married. This takes a lot more thought than I thought. I'm not wanting to get engaged right now but by next year or the year after would be ideal...
I just feel like my life is coming at me fast.
And I'm not just choosing anyone just because. I would never marry someone I didn't love, couldn't picture my life with, didn't make me happy, or wouldn't be a good father one day. We hold the same values, like the same things for the most part, etc.
By the way I'm not living with his parents...his mom lives with her husband about an hour away. My only milestone to getting married is have a job and being able to afford a place of our own. That's about it. Now I guess I need to figure out what his reasons are for those ages.
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 12:05 PM on October 14, 2014
It's important to know that you're on the same page about wanting to get married. But before you actually get married you should make sure you're on the same page about...
Kids...do you both want them.
Work...what do you each value in terms of work/life balance, versus ambition? How strongly do you both want to pursue careers and how willing are you both to make sacrifices for the other (moving, giving up opportunities, etc)?
Finances...how do you view money, savings, expenses?
Religion...does faith play a role in your lives? how?
Home...city people? country people?
Conflict...how do you resolve conflict?
Education...he wants more, what about you?
Getting him to say yes to getting married, but not being sure about these other important issues is not a recipe for a long and happy marriage.
Getting clarity on these issues will probably make a decision about marriage much easier for both of you. And sometimes you won't get clarity without first actually working through some of these issues.
posted by brookeb at 12:15 PM on October 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
Kids...do you both want them.
Work...what do you each value in terms of work/life balance, versus ambition? How strongly do you both want to pursue careers and how willing are you both to make sacrifices for the other (moving, giving up opportunities, etc)?
Finances...how do you view money, savings, expenses?
Religion...does faith play a role in your lives? how?
Home...city people? country people?
Conflict...how do you resolve conflict?
Education...he wants more, what about you?
Getting him to say yes to getting married, but not being sure about these other important issues is not a recipe for a long and happy marriage.
Getting clarity on these issues will probably make a decision about marriage much easier for both of you. And sometimes you won't get clarity without first actually working through some of these issues.
posted by brookeb at 12:15 PM on October 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
If getting engaged next year or the year after is what you want/need, I think you're going to be disappointed. Your boyfriend doesn't sound anywhere near being in the "proposing in a year or two" phase of things. At all. He's saying he wouldn't want to get married until he finishes school which would take six years, and he hasn't even started yet.... seriously, this is an epic roadblock for you getting what you want/need. He's allowed to not want to get engaged/married in the next six years, but you are allowed to want to be engaged/married in the next 3.
When I first read your post I thought "Ehhhn, close enough in expectations for them to keep dating and see where it goes" but after your updated I'm thinking actually there is a larger disconnect than it first seemed.
If being married is important to you (and it is okay if it is) and if being married SOON is important to you, then I think you need to consider that your boyfriend may not be the ideal partner for you.
Also, man, you are in your mid 20's which I think is WAY too young to be worrying about fertility issues unless you have an actual reason to be worried (like severe endometriosis or POCS or something). And giving birth at 34 would be FAR from making you an "old parent". It is fine to want them when you are younger, but you have what I consider to be some opinions on things that may not be entirely accurate.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 12:18 PM on October 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
When I first read your post I thought "Ehhhn, close enough in expectations for them to keep dating and see where it goes" but after your updated I'm thinking actually there is a larger disconnect than it first seemed.
If being married is important to you (and it is okay if it is) and if being married SOON is important to you, then I think you need to consider that your boyfriend may not be the ideal partner for you.
Also, man, you are in your mid 20's which I think is WAY too young to be worrying about fertility issues unless you have an actual reason to be worried (like severe endometriosis or POCS or something). And giving birth at 34 would be FAR from making you an "old parent". It is fine to want them when you are younger, but you have what I consider to be some opinions on things that may not be entirely accurate.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 12:18 PM on October 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
he's 24 and it's going to take him 6-8 years to finish school, if ever? if he doesn't have a firm timeline for that and isn't working on it at this moment, he may not be up to conceiving and executing a timeline for marriage. it takes a certain amount of maturity and stability to do that.
a lot of good advice above, particulary wrt the children issue, which you can use as a prybar on the marriage issue, anytime the two of you are out together and see a cute baby.
yes, you will have to revisit this conversation some time again soon. right now, he's under no pressure, he has a nice gf but no commitment to her. commitment is the next natural step.
where are YOUR parents? do they live nearby, so you can take your bf over to visit and have your dad ask him "when are you going to make an honest, legal woman out of my daughter? what are your intentions?" dads make great villains.
from my youth through right now, i've always wanted to get married in several years.
/59 y.o. bachelor
posted by bruce at 12:21 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
a lot of good advice above, particulary wrt the children issue, which you can use as a prybar on the marriage issue, anytime the two of you are out together and see a cute baby.
yes, you will have to revisit this conversation some time again soon. right now, he's under no pressure, he has a nice gf but no commitment to her. commitment is the next natural step.
where are YOUR parents? do they live nearby, so you can take your bf over to visit and have your dad ask him "when are you going to make an honest, legal woman out of my daughter? what are your intentions?" dads make great villains.
from my youth through right now, i've always wanted to get married in several years.
/59 y.o. bachelor
posted by bruce at 12:21 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm just hoping I'm not strung along 6 years later and I'm still not married.
In that case, I would leave the relationship now and look for someone who was interested in being married in the next few years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2014 [19 favorites]
In that case, I would leave the relationship now and look for someone who was interested in being married in the next few years.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2014 [19 favorites]
I think it'd be helpful to spend less time and energy trying to decode what he wants and more time telling him what you actually want. "I would really like to be engaged by this year or the next, and to be married and trying for kids in three years or so. How do your plans fit in with that? How can we make this work for both of us? Can we make this work?"
You're talking about planning the next three years of your life, which is pretty "right now" planning. He's talking in vague "sometime" language. You may be able to get on the same page, but inly if you start putting your cards on the table if "Married with kids by 30" is a dealbreaker for you.
It's also worth considering whether "Married with kids by 30" is actually a dealbreaker for you.
posted by jaguar at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
You're talking about planning the next three years of your life, which is pretty "right now" planning. He's talking in vague "sometime" language. You may be able to get on the same page, but inly if you start putting your cards on the table if "Married with kids by 30" is a dealbreaker for you.
It's also worth considering whether "Married with kids by 30" is actually a dealbreaker for you.
posted by jaguar at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
Get a career going where you can support yourself.
Stop worrying about him and what he wants.
This way, when he's still living at his parents and unable to support a family of his own, you'll be more than halfway there on your own.
After that, it won't be too hard finding a life partner you won't have to negotiate and cajole into the future you want to share with them, because you can find someone who is doing what you are.
Invest in your own career path and financial stability, not this guy.
posted by jbenben at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
Stop worrying about him and what he wants.
This way, when he's still living at his parents and unable to support a family of his own, you'll be more than halfway there on your own.
After that, it won't be too hard finding a life partner you won't have to negotiate and cajole into the future you want to share with them, because you can find someone who is doing what you are.
Invest in your own career path and financial stability, not this guy.
posted by jbenben at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
Why aren't you having this talk with your boyfriend?
We're just some people on the internet. We don't know him nearly as well as you do. If you can't read his mind, we certainly can't.
Seriously, you should be talking about your concerns with your boyfriend. If this is someone that you're considering marrying, then now is a great time to start practicing open, honest conversation. You don't have to lay it on him all at once, but you shouldn't be playing this guessing game.
Keeping a little mystery in the relationship is good for, like, surprise parties. Not for life goals.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
We're just some people on the internet. We don't know him nearly as well as you do. If you can't read his mind, we certainly can't.
Seriously, you should be talking about your concerns with your boyfriend. If this is someone that you're considering marrying, then now is a great time to start practicing open, honest conversation. You don't have to lay it on him all at once, but you shouldn't be playing this guessing game.
Keeping a little mystery in the relationship is good for, like, surprise parties. Not for life goals.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
If you've been laid off, could it be you need to focus more on finding a new job, and focus less on your boyfriend?
posted by jbenben at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by jbenben at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'd like to address a few fallacious lines of thinking here:
1) The biological clock. Talk to your OB/GYN about this, but mine says you have fifteen years, minimum, before this is a serious issue (so, age 40ish). Fifteen years. Think back to what you were doing fifteen years ago. It's a long time. Don't sweat this yet.
2) "Everyone else is doing it." I'm several years older than you, well into my 30s, and all those friends who got married in their twenties are settling into their actual marriages now. The novelty has worn off; the fabulous party is a memory from the past. They have mortgages, and babies, and special-needs children, and career issues, and money and health issues all the time. Many couples are still happy, but the ones who rushed into it? Who got married because of peer pressure? Who didn't take time to really, really get to know each other and get the nitty-gritty dirty laundry out in the open? They are dreadfully unhappy and also legally bound to one another. I know one couple who hasn't had sex in two. years. Because of a fight. Because they aren't communicating. Don't let that be you.
3) Being "strung along" for x number of years. If you love him, you love him and you're happy to be around him. Yes, marriage is nice for tax purposes and for some other good things, but it's also nice to just be with a person you love. A wedding ceremony I went to recently included a lovely line about how [happy couple, dating 8 years] was always saying to each other that they "couldn't wait for their lives to begin." But! In a moment of clarity, they realized that they'd been living "their" lives all along. Your life is now. It's not in the future sometime, at some mostly-arbitrary date. It's happening today, and are you happy with today?
Basically, do you love your boyfriend because he seems like your best bet for husband material, or do you love your boyfriend because you adore this man and love spending time with him and you want to do that forever-ever-ever? It could be a good idea to journal about this, externalize your feelings, and study what you want, rather than putting the questions to him. Once you figure out what you want, proceed from there.
posted by magdalemon at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2014 [22 favorites]
1) The biological clock. Talk to your OB/GYN about this, but mine says you have fifteen years, minimum, before this is a serious issue (so, age 40ish). Fifteen years. Think back to what you were doing fifteen years ago. It's a long time. Don't sweat this yet.
2) "Everyone else is doing it." I'm several years older than you, well into my 30s, and all those friends who got married in their twenties are settling into their actual marriages now. The novelty has worn off; the fabulous party is a memory from the past. They have mortgages, and babies, and special-needs children, and career issues, and money and health issues all the time. Many couples are still happy, but the ones who rushed into it? Who got married because of peer pressure? Who didn't take time to really, really get to know each other and get the nitty-gritty dirty laundry out in the open? They are dreadfully unhappy and also legally bound to one another. I know one couple who hasn't had sex in two. years. Because of a fight. Because they aren't communicating. Don't let that be you.
3) Being "strung along" for x number of years. If you love him, you love him and you're happy to be around him. Yes, marriage is nice for tax purposes and for some other good things, but it's also nice to just be with a person you love. A wedding ceremony I went to recently included a lovely line about how [happy couple, dating 8 years] was always saying to each other that they "couldn't wait for their lives to begin." But! In a moment of clarity, they realized that they'd been living "their" lives all along. Your life is now. It's not in the future sometime, at some mostly-arbitrary date. It's happening today, and are you happy with today?
Basically, do you love your boyfriend because he seems like your best bet for husband material, or do you love your boyfriend because you adore this man and love spending time with him and you want to do that forever-ever-ever? It could be a good idea to journal about this, externalize your feelings, and study what you want, rather than putting the questions to him. Once you figure out what you want, proceed from there.
posted by magdalemon at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2014 [22 favorites]
Life isn't a race against other people. It may feel that way sometimes, but you will never find fulfilment if you're looking around you and thinking you should be where everyone else is instead of happy where you are.
Clearly marriage is important to you. I think it's pretty clear that it's less important to your boyfriend. Or it's not something he can really think about until he's out of school...and that's too long for you.
Honestly, that's a basic incompatibility. Because anyone planning something beyond 5 years might as well be writing these things in the sand. So much can change in a year let alone half a decade.
posted by inturnaround at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
Clearly marriage is important to you. I think it's pretty clear that it's less important to your boyfriend. Or it's not something he can really think about until he's out of school...and that's too long for you.
Honestly, that's a basic incompatibility. Because anyone planning something beyond 5 years might as well be writing these things in the sand. So much can change in a year let alone half a decade.
posted by inturnaround at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2014 [8 favorites]
He isn't ready, as most men aren't when they are still working on getting a career going. Financial stability is a big indicator of a man's desire to settle down with marriage. I doubt any further discussions on this will clarify your questions, he was pretty clear about what is plan is. It sounds like waiting around isn't a viable option for you so it would be a good idea to take a step back and start focusing on friends, career and other activities that will lead you down the path of your desire under your terms, not his. Taking a step back from this relationships will also give him more head space to think about you rather than feeling he needs to protect himself from your grand plan that he isn't interested in pursuing at this time. Seeing you from a greater distance, moving on with your life, being more independent and enjoying activities without him, he may be more inclined to rethink this than if you keep questioning him about it. Take a deep breath and know that you are a great catch and deserve a partner who wants the same as you in a time frame you are happy with.
posted by waving at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by waving at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
take your bf over to visit and have your dad ask him "when are you going to make an honest, legal woman out of my daughter? what are your intentions?" dads make great villains.
I do NOT recommend this. Siccing her dad on him to try to pressure him in to getting married is not a mature or kind way of addressing this issue. It is unkind to her her boyfriend, and frankly it would be pretty bad for the father as it would no doubt taint the boyfriend's opinion of the father from then on out.
I think talking with her boyfriend herself and handling it herself is the best course of action. Should they end up getting married it could set the tone for how they deal with issues moving forward. This could be an important time where they both learn to communicate openly and honestly with each other. Important skill. Good time to start practicing it.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 12:29 PM on October 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
I do NOT recommend this. Siccing her dad on him to try to pressure him in to getting married is not a mature or kind way of addressing this issue. It is unkind to her her boyfriend, and frankly it would be pretty bad for the father as it would no doubt taint the boyfriend's opinion of the father from then on out.
I think talking with her boyfriend herself and handling it herself is the best course of action. Should they end up getting married it could set the tone for how they deal with issues moving forward. This could be an important time where they both learn to communicate openly and honestly with each other. Important skill. Good time to start practicing it.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 12:29 PM on October 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
Based on your update, I think you guys have more of an incompatibility than I had originally thought. If you're seriously considering engagement within 1-2 years, I think you're probably at a different stage than your boyfriend, who's in the stage of "I'm sure I'll get married someday, but it's not on my immediate radar." I think a relationship can survive some period of this type of mismatch, but not forever. So, I think it's good to keep talking about this and to set some sort of time in your head at which you're ready to move on. If you're at this same place in two months, that's probably okay. If you're at this same place in 2 years, that's probably not okay for you. So be clear on that with yourself and with him.
And, if the whole relationship is just about wating for/working toward marriage, I think that gives you an answer right there. Your relationship should be exciting, amazing, fulfilling, enriching, happy-making, supportive, etc. NOW. If it's not, don't think a ring and a big ceremony is going to make it any better.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
And, if the whole relationship is just about wating for/working toward marriage, I think that gives you an answer right there. Your relationship should be exciting, amazing, fulfilling, enriching, happy-making, supportive, etc. NOW. If it's not, don't think a ring and a big ceremony is going to make it any better.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Do our expectations of when to get married one day match up?
No.
posted by headnsouth at 12:37 PM on October 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
No.
posted by headnsouth at 12:37 PM on October 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
I guess I've been thinking about it lately because every where I turn people are getting engaged, married, having kids, etc. and I feel like my biological clock is ticking.
A few things about this.
1. If this is a really serious feeling that you have, and it's very important to you, you are looking at getting married at 26-27, not 28-30. Own that, be honest about that, and have a serious talk with your "oh I dunno maybe when I'm 30 after I go to med school" boyfriend.
2. Look. There's this thing that starts happening when you're around the age you are now. Because you're not in school anymore, you sort of stop being part of an "age cohort" of people. Life events happen to everyone at their own pace, not because everyone else is doing it and this is what age you're supposed to be to pass a certain milestone. As I said, I'm 33. At this point I've seen three distinct waves of weddings and baby-havings among my peers. Sometimes I get sad that I haven't done that yet, but then I remember that I'm actually very happy with my life choices, and my feelings of sadness are more about a fear of missing out and less about what I'd actually like my life to look like. Don't let "but everyone is posting pictures of their engagement rings to facebook" push you into things you don't actually want.
posted by Sara C. at 12:37 PM on October 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
A few things about this.
1. If this is a really serious feeling that you have, and it's very important to you, you are looking at getting married at 26-27, not 28-30. Own that, be honest about that, and have a serious talk with your "oh I dunno maybe when I'm 30 after I go to med school" boyfriend.
2. Look. There's this thing that starts happening when you're around the age you are now. Because you're not in school anymore, you sort of stop being part of an "age cohort" of people. Life events happen to everyone at their own pace, not because everyone else is doing it and this is what age you're supposed to be to pass a certain milestone. As I said, I'm 33. At this point I've seen three distinct waves of weddings and baby-havings among my peers. Sometimes I get sad that I haven't done that yet, but then I remember that I'm actually very happy with my life choices, and my feelings of sadness are more about a fear of missing out and less about what I'd actually like my life to look like. Don't let "but everyone is posting pictures of their engagement rings to facebook" push you into things you don't actually want.
posted by Sara C. at 12:37 PM on October 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Kids...do you both want them: Yes, 2. If we can't have we'd adopt or whatever find a way.
Work...what do you each value in terms of work/life balance, versus ambition? How strongly do you both want to pursue careers and how willing are you both to make sacrifices for the other (moving, giving up opportunities, etc)? If I had to move I would, he would also as long as we're together.
Finances...how do you view money, savings, expenses? We both save money well and dont' spend crazily. Our views are pretty much same on spending.
Religion...does faith play a role in your lives? how? No religion...don't care for it for us both.
Home...city people? country people? We are both suburbs people I guess. Not country lol
Conflict...how do you resolve conflict? We talk things out if something is bothering us without yelling. I tend to think a lot before I proceed to having a talk thus asking for advice on how to approach it.
Education...he wants more, what about you? I don't plan on going back to school, I'm just trying to get a new job. He wants a better job and to finish school.
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 12:41 PM on October 14, 2014
Work...what do you each value in terms of work/life balance, versus ambition? How strongly do you both want to pursue careers and how willing are you both to make sacrifices for the other (moving, giving up opportunities, etc)? If I had to move I would, he would also as long as we're together.
Finances...how do you view money, savings, expenses? We both save money well and dont' spend crazily. Our views are pretty much same on spending.
Religion...does faith play a role in your lives? how? No religion...don't care for it for us both.
Home...city people? country people? We are both suburbs people I guess. Not country lol
Conflict...how do you resolve conflict? We talk things out if something is bothering us without yelling. I tend to think a lot before I proceed to having a talk thus asking for advice on how to approach it.
Education...he wants more, what about you? I don't plan on going back to school, I'm just trying to get a new job. He wants a better job and to finish school.
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 12:41 PM on October 14, 2014
Response by poster: Thank you for the advice everyone, I will take it into consideration and discuss these/follow up with him.
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 12:42 PM on October 14, 2014
posted by Asian_Hunnie at 12:42 PM on October 14, 2014
You're both in your mid-twenties (i.e., adults) and have been dating nearly half a decade (i.e., a relatively long time). From the limited sets of facts I see, if he really wanted to marry you, he would already have taken concrete steps toward doing that. The fact that he's pushing the timeline back even further just sees like a warning sign to me that he's not willing to commit to you long-term.
If I loved someone deeply and they wanted me to marry them in order to remain with them, I would marry them instantly. I would not attempt to negotiate, because what you're asking for--some semblance of security in exchange for your irredeemable investment in him of some really great years of your life--is not at all unreasonable.
posted by resurrexit at 12:45 PM on October 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
If I loved someone deeply and they wanted me to marry them in order to remain with them, I would marry them instantly. I would not attempt to negotiate, because what you're asking for--some semblance of security in exchange for your irredeemable investment in him of some really great years of your life--is not at all unreasonable.
posted by resurrexit at 12:45 PM on October 14, 2014 [11 favorites]
I would revisit the issue with him specifically from the kids angle. Even if you don't have fertility issues or are fine with adopting, the younger you are the easier the pregnancy will be on you and the more energy both of you will have for raising your kids. You'll also have more years in your kids' lives -- think about how devastating it would be to lose your parents right now before you're even fully established in life and how sad it would be for them to never get to meet and spend time with their grandkids.
So, if he wants to have kids with you, you and he need a concrete plan of how you'll both feel ready for that sooner rather than later. Ask him to list the specific milestones (education, career, hobbies, travel, personal, etc.) he'd like to achieve before marriage and later kids instead of giving you an age range -- those milestones were probably what he was actually thinking of anyway and he just gave you the ages at which he estimates he'll have achieved them. List your own prerequisite milestones too. Then figure out which of those really do have to take place before marriage vs. which ones might actually be easier to achieve as a team. Also figure out which ones you can do after you're married but before you have kids. That should give you some concrete goals to work toward instead of languishing in pre-engagement limbo indefinitely.
Bonus tip: If you can live without an expensive engagement ring and/or extravagant wedding, make sure he knows this!!! Doing without those things could potentially shorten his own timetable-to-marriage by literally years.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
So, if he wants to have kids with you, you and he need a concrete plan of how you'll both feel ready for that sooner rather than later. Ask him to list the specific milestones (education, career, hobbies, travel, personal, etc.) he'd like to achieve before marriage and later kids instead of giving you an age range -- those milestones were probably what he was actually thinking of anyway and he just gave you the ages at which he estimates he'll have achieved them. List your own prerequisite milestones too. Then figure out which of those really do have to take place before marriage vs. which ones might actually be easier to achieve as a team. Also figure out which ones you can do after you're married but before you have kids. That should give you some concrete goals to work toward instead of languishing in pre-engagement limbo indefinitely.
Bonus tip: If you can live without an expensive engagement ring and/or extravagant wedding, make sure he knows this!!! Doing without those things could potentially shorten his own timetable-to-marriage by literally years.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
You're young, but if you know, you know. Marry now in a very cheap and simple ceremony and start living as a couple. If you know you want to be married, but aren't sure if it's to this guy, then wait.
But to me, there's no reason to wait to be married if you both want to travel down life's road together. Why? If you both know that this is the one person for you, if you have similar views on the main points in life, children, religion, money, etc, then what is the benefit in waiting?
Someone who is saying, I need this, that and the other, THEN I'll be ready to marry, isn't someone in love and wanting to partner, it's someone who likes the abstract idea of marriage with a yet unknown partner.
Think about it really, really hard. What would change about your relationship if you were to marry? You can be married and wait for children. You can be married and attend post-graduate school, you can be married and travel, you can be married and looking for a better job.
If he really wants to marry you, he will. If he wants to keep you around until either some magic switch in his head goes off and he suddenly is ready, or the mood strikes him...it may never happen.
My parents were married and had kids at your age. My Dad was attending grad school and we lived in married student housing. There were lean times, and it wasn't always easy, but they were partners and supported each other throughout their journey.
Don't bet the ranch on a guy who isn't ready for you, or for marriage, if that's what you want.
Instead of asking him what he wants, I'd tell him what I want.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
But to me, there's no reason to wait to be married if you both want to travel down life's road together. Why? If you both know that this is the one person for you, if you have similar views on the main points in life, children, religion, money, etc, then what is the benefit in waiting?
Someone who is saying, I need this, that and the other, THEN I'll be ready to marry, isn't someone in love and wanting to partner, it's someone who likes the abstract idea of marriage with a yet unknown partner.
Think about it really, really hard. What would change about your relationship if you were to marry? You can be married and wait for children. You can be married and attend post-graduate school, you can be married and travel, you can be married and looking for a better job.
If he really wants to marry you, he will. If he wants to keep you around until either some magic switch in his head goes off and he suddenly is ready, or the mood strikes him...it may never happen.
My parents were married and had kids at your age. My Dad was attending grad school and we lived in married student housing. There were lean times, and it wasn't always easy, but they were partners and supported each other throughout their journey.
Don't bet the ranch on a guy who isn't ready for you, or for marriage, if that's what you want.
Instead of asking him what he wants, I'd tell him what I want.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
Fertility concern- Look at your family history. For instance, I'm from farm people. I can have babies past the point that they start coming out as aunts and uncles. If your family history is the same then don't worry about it. If you come from difficult breeders then yes, you should be concerned, you should share your concern with him, and the two of you should come to a decision together.
Do not live with him or buy a condo together before you are married. Really, what is the point of getting married at all if you already live together? Why would he be motivated? Living apart gives him a chance to miss you more and it gives you a chance to know who you are without him.
He is going back to school, you are unemployed, it isn't the best time to get married. Once life is a bit more settled, either he will love you enough to be with you forever or he will let you go to find the one who will. In the meantime, relax and enjoy your time with the man that you love.
posted by myselfasme at 1:11 PM on October 14, 2014
Do not live with him or buy a condo together before you are married. Really, what is the point of getting married at all if you already live together? Why would he be motivated? Living apart gives him a chance to miss you more and it gives you a chance to know who you are without him.
He is going back to school, you are unemployed, it isn't the best time to get married. Once life is a bit more settled, either he will love you enough to be with you forever or he will let you go to find the one who will. In the meantime, relax and enjoy your time with the man that you love.
posted by myselfasme at 1:11 PM on October 14, 2014
I think it would help to look at it from his point of view. It does sound like he loves you but it also sounds like he may be feeling under pressure from you. Some things he says (as reported by you) sound kind of nonsensical and like the sort of things people say when they feel they've got to say something or anything to pacify the other person. I wouldn't consider him a terrible human being if he was going along with your demands for a timeline because he truly doesn't want to lose you but this is just not part of his planning right now. I think that if you keep pursuing it along these lines, you may or may getting what you want, but in the process you may do damage to the relationship.
If you are really, really determined to get married and have children within x number of years, I think you should really consider finding someone who really is closer to being ready.
posted by BibiRose at 2:49 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you are really, really determined to get married and have children within x number of years, I think you should really consider finding someone who really is closer to being ready.
posted by BibiRose at 2:49 PM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Please, please, please do not spend all of your 20s worrying about marriage. Please. It will happen when the time is right for you. You are so young. You will never have this time back. Learn yourself. Enjoy your boyfriend. I know I'm just some strange chick from the internet but when you hit your 40s and you have husband/mortgage/kid/job, activities with said kids. Oh, and the furnace sounds kind of loud and man, we really need to tear down that shed out back ... you will pine for these days. Please listen to the strange internet lady.
posted by nubianinthedesert at 2:58 PM on October 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by nubianinthedesert at 2:58 PM on October 14, 2014 [9 favorites]
Focus on your career and getting to a place where you are comfortable. Make sure you have a circle of friends and do things you enjoy. If you want any additional professional education, do it now. Save up an emergency fund, a home downpayment fund and a baby fund.
Your boyfriend doesn't sound like he's really thinking about marriage. Some people may jump in here and tell you not to worry.
But here's the thing. What if you get to 30 and he doesn't want kids? Maybe you need a year or two to process the end of your relationship. So then you're 31 or 32. You need to meet a guy and suss him out and maybe that takes 2 years. So now you're maybe 33-34. And you try to conceive. Let's say you are fortunate and you get pregnant right away. Now you're 34-35. Do you want 2 kids, spaced 3 years apart, a la Dr. Sears? So now you're 38 and trying for the second one. And that's if everything worked well for you and you met the right guy and your fertility has not tanked and you haven't miscarried 5 times and gone through the shock like my friend.
So my advice is to keep communicating and talking about expectations. But, if this doesn't look to be the guy in 1-2 years, make a decision then. But you've already invested, what, five years? Why doesn't this guy know if you're the One yet? Maybe this guy isn't the One.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 3:39 PM on October 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Your boyfriend doesn't sound like he's really thinking about marriage. Some people may jump in here and tell you not to worry.
But here's the thing. What if you get to 30 and he doesn't want kids? Maybe you need a year or two to process the end of your relationship. So then you're 31 or 32. You need to meet a guy and suss him out and maybe that takes 2 years. So now you're maybe 33-34. And you try to conceive. Let's say you are fortunate and you get pregnant right away. Now you're 34-35. Do you want 2 kids, spaced 3 years apart, a la Dr. Sears? So now you're 38 and trying for the second one. And that's if everything worked well for you and you met the right guy and your fertility has not tanked and you haven't miscarried 5 times and gone through the shock like my friend.
So my advice is to keep communicating and talking about expectations. But, if this doesn't look to be the guy in 1-2 years, make a decision then. But you've already invested, what, five years? Why doesn't this guy know if you're the One yet? Maybe this guy isn't the One.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 3:39 PM on October 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Wow, Chausette, you literally wrote down my relationship and childbearing history - to the year. I got to 30 and my long term partner was still on the fence about marriage so I broke up. And everything played out exactly how you wrote it, right down to getting pregnant with my 2nd at 38. And I consider myself lucky because I did meet my husband in time to get the two kids, and my fertility was ok. But a lot of women aren't so lucky, so OP, if it is important to you, give it some time, but not all your time. If this is important to you, have the conversations and be prepared to walk if you're not on the same timeline or don't want the same things.
I invested eight years with a man that strung me along that I would do anything to have back. I'm not suggesting your guy is doing the same, but one thing I learnt is that someone who wants to marry you will do something about it - my husband and I were engaged after a year, not still talking about it after eight. Talk is cheap.
posted by Jubey at 4:38 PM on October 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
I invested eight years with a man that strung me along that I would do anything to have back. I'm not suggesting your guy is doing the same, but one thing I learnt is that someone who wants to marry you will do something about it - my husband and I were engaged after a year, not still talking about it after eight. Talk is cheap.
posted by Jubey at 4:38 PM on October 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
This may seem off track, but your update to answer previous questions was super vague. I just . . . heard a lot of, "He and j want the same things" . . . but what are those things? Like, what shape do you want your life to be, really?
I only say this because I did something similar with an ex. I just felt like, well, we love each other, and we both feel the same about money issues and we're both religious and we'd both move for the other - to later find out that not only was I assuming a WHOLE bunch, but I didn't really know what I myself wanted. For instance, I thought I wanted kids because, well, I'm not sure. I just kinda assumed that's what I wanted. Now I'm more on the fence. I also assumed that I wanted to settle down and have the America suburban dream with the white picket fence, and boy was I ever wrong about that!
Get straight what you want your life to be, and be brutally honest with yourself. You only have the one life, after all.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:54 PM on October 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
I only say this because I did something similar with an ex. I just felt like, well, we love each other, and we both feel the same about money issues and we're both religious and we'd both move for the other - to later find out that not only was I assuming a WHOLE bunch, but I didn't really know what I myself wanted. For instance, I thought I wanted kids because, well, I'm not sure. I just kinda assumed that's what I wanted. Now I'm more on the fence. I also assumed that I wanted to settle down and have the America suburban dream with the white picket fence, and boy was I ever wrong about that!
Get straight what you want your life to be, and be brutally honest with yourself. You only have the one life, after all.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:54 PM on October 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
Make a concrete plan to move out together in 6 months. You've been living somewhat informally with his family and based on your past questions, there have been issues with him not meeting your expectations. Moving in together will be a significant step forward in being in a relationship that also has adult responsibilities built-in. You'll also see how compatible you both are when you're alone together. Live together for at least a year and see where you are. Are you communicating well? Are you on equal footing? Do your plans and timelines match up? Are you both making strides with your careers? Are you finding that you're very compatible when it comes to the day-in-day-out management of problems? Do your values match when you do more than just scratch the surface? If you're finding that the relationship is getting stronger and is very emotionally healthy, then get engaged.
With your desired timeline (which I personally think is a bit problematic for reasons that others articulated well above), if you move out together in 6 months, live together for a year, get engaged and marry a year after the engagement, you're already bumping up against your current deadline. You state that you think you're ready to move in together in a couple of years. That math simply doesn't work unless you plan to combo moving in and marrying at the same time.
It's easy for your boyfriend to tell you that he imagines getting married several or more years down the line and placate you a bit. But, if you present him with the timeline needed to get there and ask him to get on board and start planning for the first step of moving in together somewhat soon, you'll probably get your answer about how he really feels about it.
posted by quince at 7:25 PM on October 14, 2014
With your desired timeline (which I personally think is a bit problematic for reasons that others articulated well above), if you move out together in 6 months, live together for a year, get engaged and marry a year after the engagement, you're already bumping up against your current deadline. You state that you think you're ready to move in together in a couple of years. That math simply doesn't work unless you plan to combo moving in and marrying at the same time.
It's easy for your boyfriend to tell you that he imagines getting married several or more years down the line and placate you a bit. But, if you present him with the timeline needed to get there and ask him to get on board and start planning for the first step of moving in together somewhat soon, you'll probably get your answer about how he really feels about it.
posted by quince at 7:25 PM on October 14, 2014
Based on your previous questions about this same man, I don't think you should marry him.
Based on his response to your question, I don't think he wants to get married.
He gave you a 3-8 year window of when he'd be ready. It's long enough that you can't actually consider wedding planning but not so long off that you'd break up with him. I'm sure he cares about you very much and wants you around, but 3-8 years seems like he's hedging his bets to keep you around.
I'm with Ruthless Bunny on this one. If you want to spend your life with someone, you don't create some arbitrary timetable for when all circumstances magically fall into place and you're suddenly marriage-ready. Marriage isn't some end-game that happens after you've ticked off so many boxes and you're ready to move up to the next level. If someone has the mindset that they'll be ready for marriage after X, Y, and Z happen, then that person doesn't really want to get married.
You love each other, you set a date and get married. Life is always going to surprise you and if the commitment's there, then you just do it.
When someone wants to get married, they say that. They don't give you a window of 3-8 years. I would suggest you talk to him again with the idea that you want to be married a lot sooner than that and see how he responds, except...
You're very young. This is the second relationship you've had in your life, and you're making a big mistake by hitching your wagon to this guy in the hopes that in almost ten years he'll be ready to marry.
posted by kinetic at 2:52 AM on October 15, 2014 [5 favorites]
Based on his response to your question, I don't think he wants to get married.
He gave you a 3-8 year window of when he'd be ready. It's long enough that you can't actually consider wedding planning but not so long off that you'd break up with him. I'm sure he cares about you very much and wants you around, but 3-8 years seems like he's hedging his bets to keep you around.
I'm with Ruthless Bunny on this one. If you want to spend your life with someone, you don't create some arbitrary timetable for when all circumstances magically fall into place and you're suddenly marriage-ready. Marriage isn't some end-game that happens after you've ticked off so many boxes and you're ready to move up to the next level. If someone has the mindset that they'll be ready for marriage after X, Y, and Z happen, then that person doesn't really want to get married.
You love each other, you set a date and get married. Life is always going to surprise you and if the commitment's there, then you just do it.
When someone wants to get married, they say that. They don't give you a window of 3-8 years. I would suggest you talk to him again with the idea that you want to be married a lot sooner than that and see how he responds, except...
You're very young. This is the second relationship you've had in your life, and you're making a big mistake by hitching your wagon to this guy in the hopes that in almost ten years he'll be ready to marry.
posted by kinetic at 2:52 AM on October 15, 2014 [5 favorites]
There are people who structure their early adult life around a race to make certain "goals" happen, namely marriage, house and kids, and people who don't. You are one of these people, currently, and your boyfriend is not. Half the advice here is trying to get you to change to be a person not chasing those goals -- they may well not satisfy you, and life seldom goes according to plan -- half is trying to convince you to leave him because he doesn't share them. Either package of advice might work but I think those are pretty much your options.
posted by ead at 7:09 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by ead at 7:09 AM on October 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
3-8 years seems like he's hedging his bets to keep you around.
It doesn't seem particularly odd to me - if he's 25 now, 3-8 years puts him at 28-33, which seems like the most normal time frame to get married, at least if you're fairly well-educated and living in the city. I'm 28 and most of my friends are not married yet, even the ones in serious relationships where they've been living together for years. A few have started having kids - these are all in their early-to-mid 30s. I don't know anyone who married at 25 or under, other than a few people who both grew up in and remained in small towns.
Anyway OP, it seems like 30 is the magic number for you mainly because of fertility concerns - FYI, your fertility does not suddenly tank at 30, or anywhere close to that. It starts to decline for most people as soon as they hit their 20s (!), and then very very slowly declines steadily until maybe 40-45, when it drops more sharply. You might be infertile or fertile now; you might be infertile or fertile at 40; but without knowing specifics about your fertility, there is really not a major difference between 29 and 30, or even between 28 and 32. For you personally there might be, and that's where you'd want to talk to a doctor about possible ways to estimate that stuff if you're really worried. But without that information, it makes no sense to draw a rigid line in the sand and base important life decisions on that line, at least if it's based on fertility concerns.
All that said, if you do want to have kids in your 20s, there's nothing wrong with that preference....and it's pretty clear that your partner doesn't share it, so you'll want to start finding a new partner right away if accomplishing that is a really important thing for you.
posted by randomnity at 1:29 PM on October 17, 2014
It doesn't seem particularly odd to me - if he's 25 now, 3-8 years puts him at 28-33, which seems like the most normal time frame to get married, at least if you're fairly well-educated and living in the city. I'm 28 and most of my friends are not married yet, even the ones in serious relationships where they've been living together for years. A few have started having kids - these are all in their early-to-mid 30s. I don't know anyone who married at 25 or under, other than a few people who both grew up in and remained in small towns.
Anyway OP, it seems like 30 is the magic number for you mainly because of fertility concerns - FYI, your fertility does not suddenly tank at 30, or anywhere close to that. It starts to decline for most people as soon as they hit their 20s (!), and then very very slowly declines steadily until maybe 40-45, when it drops more sharply. You might be infertile or fertile now; you might be infertile or fertile at 40; but without knowing specifics about your fertility, there is really not a major difference between 29 and 30, or even between 28 and 32. For you personally there might be, and that's where you'd want to talk to a doctor about possible ways to estimate that stuff if you're really worried. But without that information, it makes no sense to draw a rigid line in the sand and base important life decisions on that line, at least if it's based on fertility concerns.
All that said, if you do want to have kids in your 20s, there's nothing wrong with that preference....and it's pretty clear that your partner doesn't share it, so you'll want to start finding a new partner right away if accomplishing that is a really important thing for you.
posted by randomnity at 1:29 PM on October 17, 2014
Figured I should add a source, rather than asking you to believe me. Excerpt: Based on the simplified model, which produced estimates consistent with Figure 1, women aged 27–29 years were predicted to have lower pregnancy rates on average than women aged 19–26 years given equivalent timing of intercourse (PP = 0.99). Women in the 27–29 and 30–34 year age categories had statistically indistinguishable rates, and there was evidence of a decline between the 30–34 and 35–39 year age groups (PP = 0.95).
Note that even when comparing the youngest group (19-26) to the oldest (35-39), there isn't a massive difference - 103 pregnancies/481 cycles (21% chance/cycle) declining to 36 pregnancies/328 cycles (11% chance/cycle)....and apparently 82% of the 35-39 year olds still conceived within a year of trying, which is not a particularly big difference from even your early 20s, since fertility problems can happen at any age.
posted by randomnity at 1:55 PM on October 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Note that even when comparing the youngest group (19-26) to the oldest (35-39), there isn't a massive difference - 103 pregnancies/481 cycles (21% chance/cycle) declining to 36 pregnancies/328 cycles (11% chance/cycle)....and apparently 82% of the 35-39 year olds still conceived within a year of trying, which is not a particularly big difference from even your early 20s, since fertility problems can happen at any age.
posted by randomnity at 1:55 PM on October 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's not just about conception. It's about births. See the articles cited in this Wikipedia piece. 75% of 30yos have a baby within a year of trying, whereas 44% of 40yos do. How long do you want to try? How many miscarriages will be involve? How long will your body and mind take for you to be ready again? How much money do you want to spend on fertility treatments?
I have friends who waited till they were closer to 40. It meant they had to do amnio, since they were over 35. Some of them spent $40k-80k on fertility treatments and ended up as a family of 5 in a 1BR apartment. Some ended up taking leave from work because the effects of miscarriage took their toll. Others wanted to space the kids out a little more, but age and time were such a pressure that they ended up having kids closer together. And, OMG, pulling an all nighter in your 40s takes so much longer to recover from than in your early 30s or 20s. I don't think I could handle an infant now.
It's not like women are useless by 40. But, as my doctor told me, it's better for women to know this stuff than to think there's no timeline at all.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 12:53 PM on October 20, 2014
I have friends who waited till they were closer to 40. It meant they had to do amnio, since they were over 35. Some of them spent $40k-80k on fertility treatments and ended up as a family of 5 in a 1BR apartment. Some ended up taking leave from work because the effects of miscarriage took their toll. Others wanted to space the kids out a little more, but age and time were such a pressure that they ended up having kids closer together. And, OMG, pulling an all nighter in your 40s takes so much longer to recover from than in your early 30s or 20s. I don't think I could handle an infant now.
It's not like women are useless by 40. But, as my doctor told me, it's better for women to know this stuff than to think there's no timeline at all.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 12:53 PM on October 20, 2014
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I think that you need to be upfront and honest about your own preferences and expectations.
He may be exactly on the same page, he may not be and you both need to know these things.
Don't be coy or vague or afraid to get down to brass tacks.
Bring engagement into the conversation.
Would you be willing to wait longer if he proposed and put a ring on it?
posted by John Kennedy Toole Box at 11:26 AM on October 14, 2014 [5 favorites]