Almost Single Mom Questions
October 8, 2014 2:56 PM Subscribe
What should a single mom applying for income based housing try to plan for?
Lots of big changes have come down the pike for me recently- I am nearly done with another degree and recently filed for divorce. As soon as I am licensed (next year), it's my intention to move south in order to find work in my new field. I have two school age children. Their father has, with my blessing, traveled to the other side of the country looking for work, so my moving for the same reason should not be a problem. (I am well aware that our detente could be broken at any time, but I am hoping for the best in that things continue on amicably.)
The area in which I'm looking for work is not the greatest market, rental wise, but does have several lovely townhouse complexes which are all income based. I am below the maximum income limit for three people and will probably stay there awhile. STBX and I are agreed that we would prefer not to have a child support order in place.
I am concerned that if I apply for HUD based housing, or if it takes me a good while to find a job and I have to, say, apply for food stamps, that it will trigger a child support order. I am also concerned that if (far, far off in the future) I would want to cohabit with a significant other, that I would lose my income based townhouse.
Please note that the townhouses in this area are not public housing, they were developed with a big hunk of HUD money and in return for that initial investment, they agree to rent units on a sliding scale basis.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Tips, resources, or words of advice?
Lots of big changes have come down the pike for me recently- I am nearly done with another degree and recently filed for divorce. As soon as I am licensed (next year), it's my intention to move south in order to find work in my new field. I have two school age children. Their father has, with my blessing, traveled to the other side of the country looking for work, so my moving for the same reason should not be a problem. (I am well aware that our detente could be broken at any time, but I am hoping for the best in that things continue on amicably.)
The area in which I'm looking for work is not the greatest market, rental wise, but does have several lovely townhouse complexes which are all income based. I am below the maximum income limit for three people and will probably stay there awhile. STBX and I are agreed that we would prefer not to have a child support order in place.
I am concerned that if I apply for HUD based housing, or if it takes me a good while to find a job and I have to, say, apply for food stamps, that it will trigger a child support order. I am also concerned that if (far, far off in the future) I would want to cohabit with a significant other, that I would lose my income based townhouse.
Please note that the townhouses in this area are not public housing, they were developed with a big hunk of HUD money and in return for that initial investment, they agree to rent units on a sliding scale basis.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Tips, resources, or words of advice?
Unless your live-in boyfriend has another place to live, isn't on your lease and you are lying to the DES. Which of course happens, but I would not recommend.
posted by celtalitha at 3:07 PM on October 8, 2014
posted by celtalitha at 3:07 PM on October 8, 2014
I am also concerned that if (far, far off in the future) I would want to cohabit with a significant other, that I would lose my income based townhouse.
I think you should assume there will be a 100% chance that any kind of subsidized housing you receive will require yearly re-certification. This may or may not require you to resubmit months of bank statements, etc, but will definitely require you to restate the basics of your household and the associated financials, so any changes in occupancy or income could impact your tenancy.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:27 PM on October 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
I think you should assume there will be a 100% chance that any kind of subsidized housing you receive will require yearly re-certification. This may or may not require you to resubmit months of bank statements, etc, but will definitely require you to restate the basics of your household and the associated financials, so any changes in occupancy or income could impact your tenancy.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:27 PM on October 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
Hmmm. Your question is a bit problematic, because you're kind of asking how to cheat the system. One of the overarching fundamentals of the child welfare system is that both parents have a basic obligation to support their children to the best of their abilities, and when those abilities fall short of certain minimum standards, then the government steps in with various supports. But the burden falls to the parents first to prove that they lack the resources to support their children adequately, and one of those resources for the custodial parent is child support from the non-custodial parent.
It's not clear whether the plan is for STBX to pay no support at all (and I can imagine legitimate reasons that might lead one to conclude that that is the best course of action for now) or whether the plan is for him to pay support "off the books". The later really would just be outright welfare fraud. In the former situation, you may be better served by getting a minimal/token support order in place now based on his current unemployed status (many states will set a minimum CS payment of $25/mo for an unemployed noncustodial parent) and simply failing to seek any modifications if/when he does find work, and/or failing to pursue any arrearages if he does not pay.
This is not legal advice, and I'm not saying this is what you should do, but in my case my ex-husband has accrued somewhere in excess of $50,000 in back support over the past 15 years (which would be even more if I had ever taken him back to court for a modification as his income increased) and essentially when I stopped making an effort to get him to pay, the govt. stopped trying to get him to pay.
And yes, if you are living in housing that is set aside for low-income households, and your household no longer qualifies as low-income because you have incorporated another income-earning adult into your household, then rightfully you would lose that housing benefit.
posted by drlith at 3:31 PM on October 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
It's not clear whether the plan is for STBX to pay no support at all (and I can imagine legitimate reasons that might lead one to conclude that that is the best course of action for now) or whether the plan is for him to pay support "off the books". The later really would just be outright welfare fraud. In the former situation, you may be better served by getting a minimal/token support order in place now based on his current unemployed status (many states will set a minimum CS payment of $25/mo for an unemployed noncustodial parent) and simply failing to seek any modifications if/when he does find work, and/or failing to pursue any arrearages if he does not pay.
This is not legal advice, and I'm not saying this is what you should do, but in my case my ex-husband has accrued somewhere in excess of $50,000 in back support over the past 15 years (which would be even more if I had ever taken him back to court for a modification as his income increased) and essentially when I stopped making an effort to get him to pay, the govt. stopped trying to get him to pay.
And yes, if you are living in housing that is set aside for low-income households, and your household no longer qualifies as low-income because you have incorporated another income-earning adult into your household, then rightfully you would lose that housing benefit.
posted by drlith at 3:31 PM on October 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
Where I am from the apartment complexes you are talking about that were built with HUD money and have residential income restrictions are often called "Section 42" and would NOT require a child support order. Neither would food stamps. Medicaid and TANF would though.
Individual apartment complex policies vary on whether they would make you find alternative housing if your income went up (whether it is because a boyfriend moved in or because you got a better job) or if you would be able to keep the unit because you qualified when you moved in. There are apartment complexes within a mile of each other in my neighborhood that have two different policies about this, so if you have several income restricted policies to choose from, that might be something to look in to in advance.
posted by mjcon at 3:47 PM on October 8, 2014
Individual apartment complex policies vary on whether they would make you find alternative housing if your income went up (whether it is because a boyfriend moved in or because you got a better job) or if you would be able to keep the unit because you qualified when you moved in. There are apartment complexes within a mile of each other in my neighborhood that have two different policies about this, so if you have several income restricted policies to choose from, that might be something to look in to in advance.
posted by mjcon at 3:47 PM on October 8, 2014
I am well aware that our detente could be broken at any time, but...STBX and I are agreed that we would prefer not to have a child support order in place
It doesn't sound like you've really internalized that first part or you wouldn't say the second part. Let's say he does get mad about something three months after you find a job and house in your new town, and goes to court asking for a court order requiring that you move back to where you are now so he can also move back there and be in the same town as the kids. How much would that fuck up your life, compared to talking to a lawyer and getting details hammered out now while you both are still being friendly?
posted by the agents of KAOS at 4:19 PM on October 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
It doesn't sound like you've really internalized that first part or you wouldn't say the second part. Let's say he does get mad about something three months after you find a job and house in your new town, and goes to court asking for a court order requiring that you move back to where you are now so he can also move back there and be in the same town as the kids. How much would that fuck up your life, compared to talking to a lawyer and getting details hammered out now while you both are still being friendly?
posted by the agents of KAOS at 4:19 PM on October 8, 2014 [4 favorites]
Don't plan on cheating the system or your children.
The child support isn't for you, it's for them.
Low income housing is for people with low incomes. While you have a low income, you would be eligible to live there with your children alone. No significant others. If you do get an SO, then he would need to also qualify, or you would all need to move. If you start to earn more money, you'd have to pay more, or you may have to find traditional housing.
The idea is not to remain dependent upon government stipends, but for both you and your children's father to support your family. That is your obligation and your sacred trust. By all means, if you need help, take it, but don't plan on it for the long term.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:47 PM on October 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
The child support isn't for you, it's for them.
Low income housing is for people with low incomes. While you have a low income, you would be eligible to live there with your children alone. No significant others. If you do get an SO, then he would need to also qualify, or you would all need to move. If you start to earn more money, you'd have to pay more, or you may have to find traditional housing.
The idea is not to remain dependent upon government stipends, but for both you and your children's father to support your family. That is your obligation and your sacred trust. By all means, if you need help, take it, but don't plan on it for the long term.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:47 PM on October 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
Applying for government assistance will require that your future ex-husband pay child support, which he should be doing anyway, no matter what you agreed on. As far as the possibility of losing housing by living with someone, as a single mother in poverty, I can tell you that if you are only dating men that cannot afford to provide you with a nice house when the time comes to make a commitment, then you shouldn't bother dating. Seriously. Set your bar much higher.
posted by myselfasme at 8:15 PM on October 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 8:15 PM on October 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
As someone who used to managed Section 8 housing, please do not lie about your income (including child support.) Sure you might get away with it for a while, but paying back your overpaid subsidy can be super painful (as my tenant who owed nearly $10K in back subsidy (it would have been more but we could only go back 5 years.) Not to mention the hassle the site manager has to go through when she finds out you'vve under reported your income. (just don't do it.)
Also, when applying for Section 8 housing be prepared for a long long wait. (Section 42 has shorter waitlists, but rent isn't based on your income like Section 8.)
posted by vespabelle at 9:24 PM on October 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, when applying for Section 8 housing be prepared for a long long wait. (Section 42 has shorter waitlists, but rent isn't based on your income like Section 8.)
posted by vespabelle at 9:24 PM on October 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm a divorced mom with three kids.
You will NEED a child support order. Over the years I've had to use it for buying a home, rental applications, food stamps, reduced lunch for my kids at school, college loans, reduced bus fees for my kids, etc.
Without that child support order, agencies will not be able to process your application and you get nothing.
Get a child support order. Make copies of it. Keep them in a safe place.
(I don't know what are the reasons for not wanting a support order, but you need this not only for the above-mentioned reasons but to protect your kids. If you're doing this because you're friendly and you trust each other, you're way off. Things change and all of a sudden even the best non-custodial parent will find themselves short one month and not be able to pay. Then another month. Trust me. THIS HAPPENS.)
posted by kinetic at 2:44 AM on October 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
You will NEED a child support order. Over the years I've had to use it for buying a home, rental applications, food stamps, reduced lunch for my kids at school, college loans, reduced bus fees for my kids, etc.
Without that child support order, agencies will not be able to process your application and you get nothing.
Get a child support order. Make copies of it. Keep them in a safe place.
(I don't know what are the reasons for not wanting a support order, but you need this not only for the above-mentioned reasons but to protect your kids. If you're doing this because you're friendly and you trust each other, you're way off. Things change and all of a sudden even the best non-custodial parent will find themselves short one month and not be able to pay. Then another month. Trust me. THIS HAPPENS.)
posted by kinetic at 2:44 AM on October 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
I am also concerned that if (far, far off in the future) I would want to cohabit with a significant other, that I would lose my income based townhouse.
Hopefully you would! Not because you're a bad person, but because that's the way low-income housing should work. if you are no longer low-income, then why should you live in low-income housing instead of a more deserving low-income individual?
You said you'd be moving south next year anyway once you finished your degree, so I'm a little confused about why you would say such a thing as this anyway.
posted by oceanjesse at 4:41 AM on October 9, 2014
Hopefully you would! Not because you're a bad person, but because that's the way low-income housing should work. if you are no longer low-income, then why should you live in low-income housing instead of a more deserving low-income individual?
You said you'd be moving south next year anyway once you finished your degree, so I'm a little confused about why you would say such a thing as this anyway.
posted by oceanjesse at 4:41 AM on October 9, 2014
The vagueness and ambiguity of your question is problematic on many levels. It will constrain your ability to get the information you will need in order to get the outcomes you want and need. I'm concerned that the lack of know-how + wishful thinking indicated in your post will leave you and your kids frightfully vulnerable.
You already know that single mothers are, by definition, more vulnerable than partnered moms. Mom’s also often make decisions during a divorce that set them up to be even more so. I'm worried you may be heading down that path.
I'm not surprised that a few folks upstream have filled in the blanks with the assumption that you are trying to game the system or that you need to be reminded that you and ex should be financially responsible for your kids. That you are trying to manipulate the system is but one plausible interpretation. There are others. Maybe you just need more information about the system and your options, maybe you are just freaked out about finding an affordable, decent place to live. Who knows? I don't think there's enough information here to draw the conclusion that you're deliberately acting in bad faith.
What should a single mom applying for income based housing try to plan for?
Sexist, classist and offensive comments on your character and motives are things you will confront as a single mother seeking resources for low income families. Knowing exactly what you want and need and what you have to know/ do in order to get it will long way towards buffering yourself from this.
My impression here is to say Whoa...slow down! Worrying about housing qualifications for a townhouse you want to live in with a boyfriend you have yet to meet but might want to live with with child support or employment income you have yet to adequately establish in a state you have yet to move to after a divorce you have yet to finalize is at best 10 clicks out from where you are now. I don't get the sense you've done a lot of the foundation building you'll need to make this a viable plan. You have time to do this.
Get fluent now on the systems you're referencing here - family court, housing programs, public assistance. Thoroughly research the occupational outlook for your profession in this state, average incomes compared to cost of living compared to the quality of life characteristics you want.
Get divorced first. Hammer out the custody, visitation, and support and division of kid rearing expenses first. Think of this work as Present Athene looking out for Future Athene and The Kiddos. Do it well, be thorough, consult professionals.
I have two school age children. Their father has, with my blessing, traveled to the other side of the country looking for work, so my moving for the same reason should not be a problem.
Get divorced first. Make sure the agreement stipulates that you can move. The "should" here makes me think you haven't tested this assumption. Your ex does not need your blessing to move. Just because he can up and leave the state doesn’t mean you and the kids can. As the custodial parent, you will probably need someone's blessing to move.
STBX and I are agreed that we would prefer not to have a child support order in place.
How do you define child support order? What's the concern here? Do you mean a binding agreement about child support payments and the division of other kid-rearing expenses? Do you mean that the state mandates child support and will garnish his wages if he doesn't pay? Do you mean undocumented income? Do you mean you want to avoid state collection of child support as reimbursement for the benefits they provide?
There are good, sensible reasons for wanting minimal state involvement in your support arrangements. There are good, sensible reasons for wanting state interference. How you define “support order” and why it’s a concern will largely determine what's possible and advisable in your case.
I am concerned that if I apply for HUD based housing, or if it takes me a good while to find a job and I have to, say, apply for food stamps, that it will trigger a child support order.
There are many HUD programs, each with their own eligibility standards and documentation requirements. Some are considered "public assistance" or "subsidized." Some aren't.
Income restricted, affordable housing programs are a complicated web of interrelated, overlapping administrators, housings suppliers, funding sources, points of entry, and stake-holders. Federal, state, and county governments, area non-profits, public corporations, for- profit businesses/corporations, property developers and owners are all in the mix. It's a mess.
Don't try to make sense of it. Research the specific program by name. All HUD programs have manuals available online. Any affordable housing/income restricted property will have an administrative body and at least some published information that will point you in the right direction.
Traditional public assistance benefits are a bit more straightforward than housing. If you want to know what state benefits trigger interference in child support agreements, go to the state's Dept. of Human Services or similarly titled department. Their website and branch offices are where you want to look/call.
Best of luck.
posted by space_cookie at 1:25 PM on October 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
You already know that single mothers are, by definition, more vulnerable than partnered moms. Mom’s also often make decisions during a divorce that set them up to be even more so. I'm worried you may be heading down that path.
I'm not surprised that a few folks upstream have filled in the blanks with the assumption that you are trying to game the system or that you need to be reminded that you and ex should be financially responsible for your kids. That you are trying to manipulate the system is but one plausible interpretation. There are others. Maybe you just need more information about the system and your options, maybe you are just freaked out about finding an affordable, decent place to live. Who knows? I don't think there's enough information here to draw the conclusion that you're deliberately acting in bad faith.
What should a single mom applying for income based housing try to plan for?
Sexist, classist and offensive comments on your character and motives are things you will confront as a single mother seeking resources for low income families. Knowing exactly what you want and need and what you have to know/ do in order to get it will long way towards buffering yourself from this.
My impression here is to say Whoa...slow down! Worrying about housing qualifications for a townhouse you want to live in with a boyfriend you have yet to meet but might want to live with with child support or employment income you have yet to adequately establish in a state you have yet to move to after a divorce you have yet to finalize is at best 10 clicks out from where you are now. I don't get the sense you've done a lot of the foundation building you'll need to make this a viable plan. You have time to do this.
Get fluent now on the systems you're referencing here - family court, housing programs, public assistance. Thoroughly research the occupational outlook for your profession in this state, average incomes compared to cost of living compared to the quality of life characteristics you want.
Get divorced first. Hammer out the custody, visitation, and support and division of kid rearing expenses first. Think of this work as Present Athene looking out for Future Athene and The Kiddos. Do it well, be thorough, consult professionals.
I have two school age children. Their father has, with my blessing, traveled to the other side of the country looking for work, so my moving for the same reason should not be a problem.
Get divorced first. Make sure the agreement stipulates that you can move. The "should" here makes me think you haven't tested this assumption. Your ex does not need your blessing to move. Just because he can up and leave the state doesn’t mean you and the kids can. As the custodial parent, you will probably need someone's blessing to move.
STBX and I are agreed that we would prefer not to have a child support order in place.
How do you define child support order? What's the concern here? Do you mean a binding agreement about child support payments and the division of other kid-rearing expenses? Do you mean that the state mandates child support and will garnish his wages if he doesn't pay? Do you mean undocumented income? Do you mean you want to avoid state collection of child support as reimbursement for the benefits they provide?
There are good, sensible reasons for wanting minimal state involvement in your support arrangements. There are good, sensible reasons for wanting state interference. How you define “support order” and why it’s a concern will largely determine what's possible and advisable in your case.
I am concerned that if I apply for HUD based housing, or if it takes me a good while to find a job and I have to, say, apply for food stamps, that it will trigger a child support order.
There are many HUD programs, each with their own eligibility standards and documentation requirements. Some are considered "public assistance" or "subsidized." Some aren't.
Income restricted, affordable housing programs are a complicated web of interrelated, overlapping administrators, housings suppliers, funding sources, points of entry, and stake-holders. Federal, state, and county governments, area non-profits, public corporations, for- profit businesses/corporations, property developers and owners are all in the mix. It's a mess.
Don't try to make sense of it. Research the specific program by name. All HUD programs have manuals available online. Any affordable housing/income restricted property will have an administrative body and at least some published information that will point you in the right direction.
Traditional public assistance benefits are a bit more straightforward than housing. If you want to know what state benefits trigger interference in child support agreements, go to the state's Dept. of Human Services or similarly titled department. Their website and branch offices are where you want to look/call.
Best of luck.
posted by space_cookie at 1:25 PM on October 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
The cohabitation thing usually combines the income of all household members so yes, having a live-in boyfriend whose income pushes you over the limit will likely disqualify you for any sliding-scale benefit.
Source: Single mother on government benefits in Arizona.
posted by celtalitha at 3:06 PM on October 8, 2014 [2 favorites]