Shake it off

September 25, 2014 2:22 PM

I would like to have my completed undergraduate studies cracked open based on the fact that I was severely depressed and overly medicated during the two years when I finished my degree.

The school that granted my degree -- let's call it Tomato School -- has told me that since I received all the needed credits and was granted my degree, I am stuck with it and I cannot reject it or do anything to change it now. But because I have the degree from Tomato School, I am unable to return to my original undergraduate university -- let's call it Unicorn School -- and complete my Bachelor's there, which is what I really want to do. I think it should be possible to reject my BA from Tomato School so that I can go get my BA from Unicorn School. Can you think of any relevant precedents? Any advice? Please don't just say, "No, you cannot do this." I'm looking for a workaround...

posted by i'magirl to Education (26 answers total)

Is there a reason you can't get just skip this whole problem and get a second BA from Unicorn School?
posted by DarlingBri at 2:24 PM on September 25, 2014 [12 favorites]

Hmmm. I am not sure if the issue is really rejecting the Tomato BA, or just not having the transcript with those grades.

If it is a transcript issue, consider a consult with Unicorn U admissions office, about having them consider external issues with your transcript. Many universities have such systems to help students who have overcome hardship, and show promise.
posted by chapps at 2:28 PM on September 25, 2014

Well, if Unicorn School doesn't care if you have a BA from Tomato, then it doesn't matter, just go earn your second degree - it's not unheard of. You can't "reject" your degree (though you could leave it off of your resume, I suppose).

That's said, Financial Aid for second degree students is extremely limited, usually just loans (if that).

Not what you're looking for, but I would seriously investigate whether it is worth you going back to school just for a BA. Most second degree students earned a first BA and then add a second, "professional" type bachelor's, like a bachelors of Nursing. I can't really think of a reason why you would want a second BA unless there are some graduate admissions issues that we're not aware of.
posted by Think_Long at 2:28 PM on September 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

I don't understand why you can't do this. I have know people with two bachelor's degrees. So I feel like I am missing something here.
posted by Michele in California at 2:29 PM on September 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

For everyone saying "just go get a second degree," I looked into doing this about 5 years ago in the University of California system (my BA is from another state's University system). At the time, the UC system was not accepting students for second Bachelors degrees in most programs due to high demand; you had to go on to a Masters program or nothing.

So no, it's not always possible to just go get a second degree -- the school you want the second degree from has to allow you to do it.
posted by erst at 2:32 PM on September 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

If Unicorn School will not allow you to complete a second bachelor's, look around for a school that will. Plenty of state universities welcome second bachelor's students.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:36 PM on September 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

I'm confused about what your end goal actually IS.

Is Unicorn School a better school than Tomato? Do you believe that something better would happen for you with a degree from Unicorn rather than Tomato?

How does Unicorn even KNOW about Tomato? Were you trying to transfer credits?

You could always start over at a completely different school, let's say, Lipstick College.

But really, what's the point? A BA, Is a BA, is a BA.

If you want to go back to school, why not for an advanced degree instead?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:37 PM on September 25, 2014 [6 favorites]

That's said, Financial Aid for second degree students is extremely limited, usually just loans (if that).

Well, for what it's worth, you can take out Stafford loans for a second bachelor's but the cap (currently around $57,000) does not increase. So if you don't have enough left in the pot to fund your education, you're stuck with private loans, which are definitely not worth it for a do-over. I believe you are also still eligible for work-study programs as well.

It would probably make more sense to look at a master's degree, or, if the field you're interested in is so different that you don't meet the prerequisites, a post-baccalaureate program, if one exists. Once you're in a graduate program, your Stafford loans have a new, higher cap.
posted by pullayup at 2:39 PM on September 25, 2014

Some schools may accept you as a transfer student, even though you already have a BA. That is how I am enrolled at the school where I am completing my med school prerequisites.
posted by ocherdraco at 2:48 PM on September 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

Another reason why you couldn't return to Unicorn: if your Unicorn credits counted toward your degree requirements at Tomato, you can't 'double dip' and count them toward a second bachelor's degree at Unicorn.

Is this the situation you're running into (you say that you are "unable to return to my original undergraduate university -- let's call it Unicorn School -- and complete my Bachelor's there")? If it is, it's possible that you could still begin a second Unicorn BA from scratch.

I'd still say that you're better off with a master's degree, though.
posted by pullayup at 2:50 PM on September 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

As a mature student in your late 30's who already has a bachelor's degree, your odds of getting admitted for a second BA at any halfway decent university are slim. I suppose the question is why do you want a second BA so badly? You'd have much more luck applying to master's programs.
posted by Ndwright at 2:50 PM on September 25, 2014

When my brother's friend had completed the requirements for his degree, he received a letter saying congratulations, he had earned the degree, even though he didn't file for graduation and he was planning on taking classes the next semester. So I'm not sure that you can reject a degree. I don't think it's like citizenship where you can renounce your degree. You can leave it off things like a resume but if a school requests transcripts from Tomato School, they're going to see that you completed a degree.

The school that my brother's friend attended was a state school. I believe that they subsidize undergraduate education more than graduate education so graduate school has higher tuition and it makes economic sense for them to shift students to graduate tuition when possible. Plus with the rankings like those offered by U.S. News, it looks bad if universities have super seniors, students who take more than four years to graduate. That's probably not helpful information but it may be why this is difficult.
posted by kat518 at 2:53 PM on September 25, 2014

The only people who can answer this question for you are at Unicorn School. If they say you can, you can, and if they say you can't, you probably can't. Talk to Unicorn School!
posted by mskyle at 2:55 PM on September 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

I think the implication of the question is "my grades were lower than they would have been were I more functional" - this has an effect on the likelihood of admission for a second bachelor's or a master's.
posted by gingerest at 2:55 PM on September 25, 2014

I'm reading this as you transferring your Unicorn credits to Tomato and completing a degree at Tomato using those credits plus ones earned at Tomato. If that's the case, then yes, I think it's vanishingly unlikely you'll be able to take back your Tomato degree, transfer your Unicorn credits back to Unicorn and get a BA from Unicorn, and even if it were possible, you'd be looking at taking an awful long time graduating from Unicorn, which would drastically reduce the number of sparkle-rainbows coming from your Unicorn BA.

I'm going to agree with everyone above: the best thing is to accept you're a Tomato alumnus (Go Splats!) and put any further efforts into shining academically into spending a year or two finding your feet in life, probably at work, then doing a kick-ass job at a Master's degree.
posted by ambrosen at 4:13 PM on September 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Thanks everybody. Yeah, the idea is that Tomato School is mediocre and I got a lot of Bs there, whereas Unicorn is Ivy and I got all As. If I had all but graduated from Tomato, I could resume and graduate from Unicorn. But since I took the degree from Tomato, I can't go back to Unicorn, even though I was only at Tomato one semester more than Unicorn.
posted by i'magirl at 4:36 PM on September 25, 2014

I think a lot of people were imagining a worst case scenario, lots of Cs and Ds and just barely graduated scenario. People with a lot of Bs from "mediocre" schools go to grad school all the time. Don't let your perception of your degree stop you from moving on in life and doing what you want to do.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:40 PM on September 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

No matter where you get your degree, you are required to submit transcripts from every institution where you've enrolled when you apply to grad school. If that's the real issue, pursuing this further isn't going to make a difference, because the grades will have to be submitted whether they're from the institution that awarded your degree or not.
posted by telegraph at 5:01 PM on September 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

I think a solid workaround would be to do a post-baccalaureate or grad school program at Ivy. Better yet, do it in a more professional degree program, which will get you some bang for your buck. I know many, many people who have done this. Your linked in will now say that you graduated from Ivy and then your Tomato Degree will be below it. I know a guy who was a super young VP at a major Canadian corporation and this is how his LinkedIn looks - "Canadian Ivy Business diploma", "Canadian Generic University BApSc". I used to put on there that I took a Wharton accounting course and LinkedIn would put list that I attended Wharton, even though it was a self-study course I took at my desk while working at a summer job and didn't even have marks. For what it is worth, I think the VP I mentioned did a 2-week or 6-week exec program at Ivy. And I have worked with tons of other senior execs and management-track people who have similar profiles.

It would be helpful to know for what you would like to use your second BA. If you are applying to grad school, do what my sibling did and take a few courses now and then include that transcript and a letter about your past in your application, along with solid references. A family friend simply took a course of 3rd and 4th year courses at the university he wishes to attend and then used that to show he was a good grad school candidate.

If you are looking for work, a B-average should not deter an employer. Talk up your other activities and interests and your focus on work-life balance, experiences and so on, or even how much you've matured. If you are really worried about it, take a couple of courses and show people your recent marks. (My sibling also did this.)

Let us know your end goal and that might help with workarounds.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 5:22 PM on September 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

Your transcript and degree are official records of things that actually happened. They can't be expunged retroactively.

Most grad school applications require you to truthfully represent your prior educational history, in my experience as a college professor.

We all have things in our past we did less than exceptionally for reasons having to do with health and mental state. But we can't just erase those things from the historical record.

If you do well in a second BA program or an MA program, you make your own case to future grad schools or employers: you know how to move past difficult times . I promise you as someone who admits PhD students every year that a remarkable improvement over time can work in your favor more than a steady but average record. It's a sign of high motivation and it can discount early poor performance.

Look ahead, don't get hung up on changing the past.
posted by spitbull at 5:33 PM on September 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

Thing is, even if you were able to reject your degree from Tomato School you'd still have to report that on your transcript.

Perhaps rather than attempting to get a more prestigious undergrad degree you can focus on finding a position that is directly related to what you want to do for grad school. For example, if you want to go into scientific research get a research tech job at a lab. I think you'd find well-planned job, leadership, and networking experiences far more beneficial for a grad school application than endless bachelor's degrees.
posted by Anonymous at 6:50 PM on September 25, 2014

So, it sounds to me like maybe your actual issue is "I have a sheepskin with a less impressive name on it." You can address this concern by listing both colleges in your resume and, in your cover letter, talking about how your time was roughly evenly split between the two colleges in the pursuit of your degree. You can still claim some credit for the time at the more impressive school.

That would be a much cheaper and more efficient means to deal with what your actual concern seems to be. Because I am not hearing "They teach it so much better at Unicorn." I am hearing "I don't get a sheepskin that says Unicorn U on it, with rainbows and glitter and sparkles. I just get this very plain Tomato U sheepskin. Sigh."

Also, pursuing a master's is still an option if you really want to go back to school. It sounds to me like even if you could pull this off, you would basically be rehashing things you already know in order to get the impressive brand on your sheepskin instead of learning shiny new things for an even more impressive graduate degree. That sounds like a total waste of time to me.
posted by Michele in California at 7:00 PM on September 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

Allowing you to "reject" your degree would mean the university may be required to reimburse you for tuition costs. No school would want this.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 8:35 PM on September 25, 2014

Schools do not want to rescind a degree short of very good reasons, like whopping plagiarism. I don't think this is likely to happen for you. It defeats the purpose of school.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 PM on September 25, 2014

Your transcript and degree are official records of things that actually happened. They can't be expunged retroactively.

Self-correction: they can be, but not because you want them to be, but only for reasons of latterly discovered fraudulent or unethical conduct having helped you earn the grades or degree. So a rescinded degree is about the worst thing you could ever have in your academic history short of an expulsion for misconduct at the time.

You didn't buy a degree or grades. You bought an education. The degree is your receipt.
posted by spitbull at 1:33 AM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

You could also talk around this with, "I started at Ivy, but I was just out of high school when I made the decision to go there. As I explored my interests and goals, I realized that the program at Tomato was a much better fit. It's more oriented to teaching/better focus on undergrads/gives undergrads more hands on time/smaller classes/uses tutorial system for personalized learning/had this amazing social club where I did x/offers co-op and internships where I did x / etc. I decided to take the risk - I know so many people get hung up on the Ivy thing and their time there - but I felt confident because I really knew my values/interests/needs/etc. Once there, I was able to do [$things] and that allowed me to [$achievements]. That experience was really valuable for me because I have honed my skills in aligning my goals with my values and interests and I'm such a better judge now of what will fit with me. And I think that carries over into how I find a good fit with an employer/grad school/professional program. May I explain what's got me so interested in [job/school] and how I think I will add/complement [school/employer qualities]?"

People sometimes would diss me because I went to a non-Canadian Ivy. When I come back with the above, they forget that they were knocking my school and instead realize that I'm awesome. I mean, they realize that I have maturity and insight and I'm flexible.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 11:54 AM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]