Why Does My English Suck?
September 23, 2014 5:08 PM Subscribe
I have been speaking English for 2/3 of my life, yet I still think my English sucks. Care to enlighten me why?
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong place to post my personal struggle.
A little background (sorry for the wall of text...)
My mother tongue is Cantonese and I moved to Canada when I was 10 years old back in 1993. And this is where things got a bit tricky. I didn't actually move straight to an English-speaking province, but rather to Quebec in which I spent the whole year mastering my French. Just when I got pretty good at it, my parents decided to pull a 360 on me by moving to a small-town with 10,000 people (I was 12 by that time, entering grade 6). Being the only Asian in my entire school district, not only did I struggle with the social adaptation, but the worse was in fact me having to adapt to a new language all over again. I remember getting confused and the tutor provided by my school was not the most patient of all (she didn't really teach me proper grammar either, she just made me pronounce things everyday). Nonetheless, I eventually managed, and by grade 8, I was fully integrated into all of my classes with my peers.
Fast forward to now, I am 31 years old and I can say my understanding of English is exemplary. I can probably throw you euphemisms, puns, and idioms more than you can imagine. People always praise my extensive knowledge of vocabulary and foreigners always mistake me as a natural English speaker. The truth is, yes, I think in English, I speak in English (I rarely speak to my parents. They prefer I text.), and basically everything I do is in English. Yet, I still make all sorts of pesky little grammatical mistakes that I cannot write/speak to anyone without googling majority of my sentences first. Those mistakes are very basic that only beginner learners would typically make. I think I have gotten way better in the last 3 years due to my subliminal effort to remember what prepositions to use in certain phrasal verbs, plus I try to interact more and pay closer attention to how my friends speak. Please don't laugh, but my biggest issue is in fact pluralization! This is an area that is, for some odd reason, not intuitive for me at all.
I'm sorry if I sound a tad bit rant-y, but the grammatical structures of my "Engrish" are so horrendous sometimes that I tell people I just moved here. LOL.
Could somebody enlighten me why I cannot seem to reach that "intuitive level" of usage after so many years of being immersed in this language (In fact, it is MY ONLY language)? And my accent....it bothers me from time to time and other 1st generation Asian people (yes, not Caucasians) are the ones who look down on me. This hurts me a lot. I know no matter how much I communicate with people on a daily basis, I just cannot get rid of my accent because the words coming out of my head are free of accent (does this make sense to anybody?). What do? Does anybody have any experiences with using an online course or seeing a speech pathologist about this? I tried an app over the summer, but I kept getting a perfect score.
TL;DR Unable to articulate very well in my almost native language. Fluency level: stuck at 95%. What gives?
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong place to post my personal struggle.
A little background (sorry for the wall of text...)
My mother tongue is Cantonese and I moved to Canada when I was 10 years old back in 1993. And this is where things got a bit tricky. I didn't actually move straight to an English-speaking province, but rather to Quebec in which I spent the whole year mastering my French. Just when I got pretty good at it, my parents decided to pull a 360 on me by moving to a small-town with 10,000 people (I was 12 by that time, entering grade 6). Being the only Asian in my entire school district, not only did I struggle with the social adaptation, but the worse was in fact me having to adapt to a new language all over again. I remember getting confused and the tutor provided by my school was not the most patient of all (she didn't really teach me proper grammar either, she just made me pronounce things everyday). Nonetheless, I eventually managed, and by grade 8, I was fully integrated into all of my classes with my peers.
Fast forward to now, I am 31 years old and I can say my understanding of English is exemplary. I can probably throw you euphemisms, puns, and idioms more than you can imagine. People always praise my extensive knowledge of vocabulary and foreigners always mistake me as a natural English speaker. The truth is, yes, I think in English, I speak in English (I rarely speak to my parents. They prefer I text.), and basically everything I do is in English. Yet, I still make all sorts of pesky little grammatical mistakes that I cannot write/speak to anyone without googling majority of my sentences first. Those mistakes are very basic that only beginner learners would typically make. I think I have gotten way better in the last 3 years due to my subliminal effort to remember what prepositions to use in certain phrasal verbs, plus I try to interact more and pay closer attention to how my friends speak. Please don't laugh, but my biggest issue is in fact pluralization! This is an area that is, for some odd reason, not intuitive for me at all.
I'm sorry if I sound a tad bit rant-y, but the grammatical structures of my "Engrish" are so horrendous sometimes that I tell people I just moved here. LOL.
Could somebody enlighten me why I cannot seem to reach that "intuitive level" of usage after so many years of being immersed in this language (In fact, it is MY ONLY language)? And my accent....it bothers me from time to time and other 1st generation Asian people (yes, not Caucasians) are the ones who look down on me. This hurts me a lot. I know no matter how much I communicate with people on a daily basis, I just cannot get rid of my accent because the words coming out of my head are free of accent (does this make sense to anybody?). What do? Does anybody have any experiences with using an online course or seeing a speech pathologist about this? I tried an app over the summer, but I kept getting a perfect score.
TL;DR Unable to articulate very well in my almost native language. Fluency level: stuck at 95%. What gives?
Unless you had someone edit this post your english is just fine, better than an embarrassing percentage of natives.
So accent, that's a hard one as there are vastly fewer resources. The only seriously good suggestion is to find a theatrical/film voice coach. Note the number of foreign actors that get american roles and no one notices their accent.
I've noticed that plurals are really tricky for fluent esl folks. I think for that it's working through case by case. But again enough native speakers are just bad at it that you're probably better than you think.
posted by sammyo at 5:31 PM on September 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
So accent, that's a hard one as there are vastly fewer resources. The only seriously good suggestion is to find a theatrical/film voice coach. Note the number of foreign actors that get american roles and no one notices their accent.
I've noticed that plurals are really tricky for fluent esl folks. I think for that it's working through case by case. But again enough native speakers are just bad at it that you're probably better than you think.
posted by sammyo at 5:31 PM on September 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
In writing, your English seems fine to me. I notice a few basic errors ("worse" when it should be "worst", "everyday" when it should be "every day", etc), but they're not glaring mistakes and really not mistakes I wouldn't expect to see from native speakers.
Re plurals, hey, they're weird. Native English speakers make mistakes with this all the time. I'm not only a native speaker but highly verbal and kind of a grammar pedant, and I am still not always sure when it's right to use "fish" vs. "fishes". I see a lot of very educated people saying things like "octupi", which is not correct.
Re accent, I've known a lot of people who are in your position (immigrated as children, speak English as their primary language at a very high level of proficiency, but still worry about their accents), and as a native speaker I really don't find their accents obtrusive at all. Everyone has an accent, even native English speakers. (We just have regional accents, not other-language accents.) If you're making yourself understood, it's really not a problem. I can't speak to status within the immigrant community, but in terms of what human speech is for, you are almost certainly doing great.
posted by Sara C. at 5:38 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Re plurals, hey, they're weird. Native English speakers make mistakes with this all the time. I'm not only a native speaker but highly verbal and kind of a grammar pedant, and I am still not always sure when it's right to use "fish" vs. "fishes". I see a lot of very educated people saying things like "octupi", which is not correct.
Re accent, I've known a lot of people who are in your position (immigrated as children, speak English as their primary language at a very high level of proficiency, but still worry about their accents), and as a native speaker I really don't find their accents obtrusive at all. Everyone has an accent, even native English speakers. (We just have regional accents, not other-language accents.) If you're making yourself understood, it's really not a problem. I can't speak to status within the immigrant community, but in terms of what human speech is for, you are almost certainly doing great.
posted by Sara C. at 5:38 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
English is also my third language! I learned it much younger than you, and I still come across weird mistakes in my writing and second guess my use of idioms. It's on my mind because I'm editing a writing project of mine right now and I'm still catching some obviously non-native speaker errors.
First of all, don't stress too much about errors. Plenty of native speakers have shitty grammar and make constant errors in writing and in speech. You're just hyper aware of your own because English isn't your native language. The main thing I'd recommend to improve your English is to read. Read constantly, read everything, read across a wide range of genres, just read, read, read. You'll be surprised how much you'll pick up through sheer osmosis.
As for the rest, practice makes perfect. Now that I'm not in school and churning out assignments, I find that writing in my journal and commenting here help keep my writing skills from atrophying.
posted by yasaman at 5:46 PM on September 23, 2014
First of all, don't stress too much about errors. Plenty of native speakers have shitty grammar and make constant errors in writing and in speech. You're just hyper aware of your own because English isn't your native language. The main thing I'd recommend to improve your English is to read. Read constantly, read everything, read across a wide range of genres, just read, read, read. You'll be surprised how much you'll pick up through sheer osmosis.
As for the rest, practice makes perfect. Now that I'm not in school and churning out assignments, I find that writing in my journal and commenting here help keep my writing skills from atrophying.
posted by yasaman at 5:46 PM on September 23, 2014
I wouldn't worry about it much; slightly unusual English is charming. A guy I know does basically everything in English but his first language was German, and he speaks just differently enough in terms of sentence structure and idiom. It's sort of neat and individual to hear him. He gets a little embarrassed, but we both enjoy comparing and contrasting how we talk. There is probably someone in your life who loves how you speak.
But you asked for help, so I will say speak to a voice coach or speech pathologist and tell them what you said here. They can identify what your mouth is physically doing and figure out exercises to train you not to do that. You can also record yourself and take notes on what you notice, then specifically address that by yourself or with your coach. I can't say what you should work on because I honestly can't tell what you think you're doing wrong from what you wrote here. I worked with a guy who was Mandarin-to-English and he had issues with pronouns (got he and she confused) and contractions (couldn't hear the difference between "can" and "can't) but his brother from the same environment had no such problems. So it appears to be a very individual thing that someone who can hear you could better diagnose. Good luck! It's important to like your own voice and speech.
posted by blnkfrnk at 5:47 PM on September 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
But you asked for help, so I will say speak to a voice coach or speech pathologist and tell them what you said here. They can identify what your mouth is physically doing and figure out exercises to train you not to do that. You can also record yourself and take notes on what you notice, then specifically address that by yourself or with your coach. I can't say what you should work on because I honestly can't tell what you think you're doing wrong from what you wrote here. I worked with a guy who was Mandarin-to-English and he had issues with pronouns (got he and she confused) and contractions (couldn't hear the difference between "can" and "can't) but his brother from the same environment had no such problems. So it appears to be a very individual thing that someone who can hear you could better diagnose. Good luck! It's important to like your own voice and speech.
posted by blnkfrnk at 5:47 PM on September 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
I can't enlighten you about why you seem stuck at 95%, but I would suggest coaching. Rather than seeing a speech pathologist, I would suggest the type of accent/dialect coach that works with actors. It sounds like there's nothing wrong with your actual ability to speak, it's just making the accent that comes out of your mouth match the one in your head. A coach can help with that. For the grammar issue, if it's really bothering you, you could work with a English literacy / English as a second language tutor. I used to volunteer as a tutor, and many adult learners were actually excellent English speakers who, like you, had a few lingering issues with grammar that they wanted help with.
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:48 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:48 PM on September 23, 2014
Response by poster: Hi, I'm an academic researcher so I'm constantly writing grant applications (as I am doing now) and reading academic journals, so my understanding in English is definitely high up there. However, I haven't really read a "regular" book in a long time, I just read reddit. :P
posted by pixxie at 5:49 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by pixxie at 5:49 PM on September 23, 2014
Response by poster: No, no, I'd say reddit has helped me improve my English significantly in the last 4 years! If it weren't for reddit, I wouldn't even be able to communicate fluently like a local. For some odd reason, I speak with confidence when I speak in an academic setting, whereas in an informal setting, my conversational English becomes very "scripted". For example, I suck at reciting anecdotal stories.
posted by pixxie at 5:56 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by pixxie at 5:56 PM on September 23, 2014
Yeah, I can see quite a few clunky phrases there, so I can see how that would annoy you.
E.g. "but the worse" "most patientof all"
Anyway, pronounciation tips:
1. Singing
Practice singing. It's a slightly different part of the brain that 'pronounces' things when singing, but I've found if I 'sing' a word, I then get the hang of it, and can pronounce it better when talking.
Karaoke, a choir - get people to tell you if your accent sounds better when singing.
2. Mimicking
Also, stop trying to pronounce properly, and start trying to *mimicking* other peoples accents. Actually try and sound *exactly* like someone you know who has an english accent, even if they phrase things funnily. I've noticed people.... well, I think they're worried about sounding like they're making fun of another accent by actually copying it EXACTLY, but if you don't try and on some level actually *mimic* it, you'll never sound like you're pronouncing a language properly, instead, you'll be misprouncing things the way your own language would.
Try something like imitating
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dABo_DCIdpM
3. Record yourself
Record yourself imitating, say, the above video (have you got a laptop with input? A phone? Easy!), and then listen to how it sounds. It'll sound different recorded to how it sounds to yourself.
Best of luck!
posted by Elysum at 6:02 PM on September 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
E.g. "but the worse" "most patient
Anyway, pronounciation tips:
1. Singing
Practice singing. It's a slightly different part of the brain that 'pronounces' things when singing, but I've found if I 'sing' a word, I then get the hang of it, and can pronounce it better when talking.
Karaoke, a choir - get people to tell you if your accent sounds better when singing.
2. Mimicking
Also, stop trying to pronounce properly, and start trying to *mimicking* other peoples accents. Actually try and sound *exactly* like someone you know who has an english accent, even if they phrase things funnily. I've noticed people.... well, I think they're worried about sounding like they're making fun of another accent by actually copying it EXACTLY, but if you don't try and on some level actually *mimic* it, you'll never sound like you're pronouncing a language properly, instead, you'll be misprouncing things the way your own language would.
Try something like imitating
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dABo_DCIdpM
3. Record yourself
Record yourself imitating, say, the above video (have you got a laptop with input? A phone? Easy!), and then listen to how it sounds. It'll sound different recorded to how it sounds to yourself.
Best of luck!
posted by Elysum at 6:02 PM on September 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
They never really taught us grammar in English class in Toronto. Not explicitly anyway. We just picked it up as we went along.
I think reading like a snob could help (ie no genre fiction) as could making a point to prioritize speaking over writing. The mimicking idea also sounds like a great way to help with your accent.
That being said, I think it may be too late for you to do anything about it without serious effort. As an example, my mom had all of her education in English and moved to Canada as a graduate student. 60 years later she still has an accent, makes grammatical errors and does things like pronounce "comfortable" the way it is spelled. It didn't stop her from being a school teacher, because there is a difference between good enough and perfect, and like you, her English is good enough.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:17 PM on September 23, 2014
I think reading like a snob could help (ie no genre fiction) as could making a point to prioritize speaking over writing. The mimicking idea also sounds like a great way to help with your accent.
That being said, I think it may be too late for you to do anything about it without serious effort. As an example, my mom had all of her education in English and moved to Canada as a graduate student. 60 years later she still has an accent, makes grammatical errors and does things like pronounce "comfortable" the way it is spelled. It didn't stop her from being a school teacher, because there is a difference between good enough and perfect, and like you, her English is good enough.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:17 PM on September 23, 2014
I'm an ESL teacher by profession. I don't often work with students like you, but I do meet them often. Reading novels with dialogue could help (no reason whatsoever to avoid genre novels if your grasp of English is enough to understand what's nonstandard English and what is standard English). Read stuff that you enjoy, and it should help you get a more intuitive grasp of plurals just through pattern exposure. You say plurals are nonintuitive to you, which makes absolute sense: they're not a requisite part of language, and Chinese functions perfectly fine without them. If you spend your early years in a language that doesn't have plurals (or gender or counters or whatever), it can be hard to make them a natural part of your speaking and thinking. But constant exposure in writing, where it's easy to see them, could be helpful. (English films and TV with English subtitles could also be useful.)
A speech therapist might be able to help you identify specific pronunciation issues and work on them (for Cantonese speakers, these typically include th/f, v/w, clipping final sounds, etc.). If you know particular sound pairs that you have trouble with, such as saying what sounds like "offer" instead of "author," you can google for "minimal pairs". Minimal pairs are word pairs that differ by a single SOUND (not letter, sound). Offer and author are minimal pairs in my variety of English. So are wet and vet. You can search for minimal pairs th f, minimal pairs v w, etc., to find online practice.
I should note that I don't necessarily advocate accent reduction or worrying too much about things like plurals, when you're obviously perfectly capable of expressing yourself thoroughly and thoughtfully. That said, certain simple errors are stigmatized even though they don't really impair understanding, and I totally understand why someone would want to work on those. Stigmatized errors include pluralization mistakes, article problems, incorrect prepositions, pronoun errors, and so on.
Anyway, good luck and hang in there!
posted by wintersweet at 6:33 PM on September 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
A speech therapist might be able to help you identify specific pronunciation issues and work on them (for Cantonese speakers, these typically include th/f, v/w, clipping final sounds, etc.). If you know particular sound pairs that you have trouble with, such as saying what sounds like "offer" instead of "author," you can google for "minimal pairs". Minimal pairs are word pairs that differ by a single SOUND (not letter, sound). Offer and author are minimal pairs in my variety of English. So are wet and vet. You can search for minimal pairs th f, minimal pairs v w, etc., to find online practice.
I should note that I don't necessarily advocate accent reduction or worrying too much about things like plurals, when you're obviously perfectly capable of expressing yourself thoroughly and thoughtfully. That said, certain simple errors are stigmatized even though they don't really impair understanding, and I totally understand why someone would want to work on those. Stigmatized errors include pluralization mistakes, article problems, incorrect prepositions, pronoun errors, and so on.
Anyway, good luck and hang in there!
posted by wintersweet at 6:33 PM on September 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: That's essentially my question, how to I progress from "good enough" to "perfect"? Sometimes I feel my gears are grinding in my head when I speak. It feels very scripted. It drives me crazy. =/ An analogy I can think of is when someone who is well aware of their depression, thinks about it constantly, and struggles with it on a daily basis, but still feels helpless despite making efforts to not be depressed. Does this make sense? (sorry for being slightly morbid)
posted by pixxie at 6:33 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by pixxie at 6:33 PM on September 23, 2014
Response by poster: I do not have issues pronouncing the "th" sound. I can say "offer" and "author" perfectly. I, however, struggle with the distinction between "surface" and "service". The word "inferior" is also problematic for me (for the -or sound near the end, I keep "swallowing" it like I cannot spit it out somehow).
posted by pixxie at 6:37 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by pixxie at 6:37 PM on September 23, 2014
Yeah, it's rough. English is my second and only language, and while I can do radio (i.e. did student radio for a stint and could tolerate hearing myself), an accent becomes more apparent if I'm not focusing. I've also written about my challenges with prosody and conversational rhythm here.
Based on how you write -- and I know that people don't speak the way they write -- I would second any portmanteau in a storm's suggestion to read like a snob, and refine the idea of imitating people to imitating powerful women. Meryl Streep, Helen Mirren: that sort. Imitating them will pull you as far as possible from your current style, which is characterized by diminutives ("a tad" "slightly"), apologies, and ....boyisms? ("suck").
Beyond that, just fantasize that the great panorama of Chinese accents will be prestige accents (currently European) in fifty years, and you'll be the most charming resident at the senior center.
posted by batter_my_heart at 6:39 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Based on how you write -- and I know that people don't speak the way they write -- I would second any portmanteau in a storm's suggestion to read like a snob, and refine the idea of imitating people to imitating powerful women. Meryl Streep, Helen Mirren: that sort. Imitating them will pull you as far as possible from your current style, which is characterized by diminutives ("a tad" "slightly"), apologies, and ....boyisms? ("suck").
Beyond that, just fantasize that the great panorama of Chinese accents will be prestige accents (currently European) in fifty years, and you'll be the most charming resident at the senior center.
posted by batter_my_heart at 6:39 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Yes, when I'm not focusing, my accent/grammatical errors spill out! The focusing part gives me a headache ... as in non-intuitive. This is what drives me crazy because I constantly ask myself why do I need to think so hard just to speak or write? =/
posted by pixxie at 6:42 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by pixxie at 6:42 PM on September 23, 2014
I think yasaman has a good point. Lots of native speakers make pesky little grammatical mistakes. But few of them obsess over it because after all, hey, they’re native speakers.
You, on the other hand, are aware of the occasional mistakes you make and it frustrates you. Maybe the only difference between you and native speakers is that level of awareness.
posted by mono blanco at 6:42 PM on September 23, 2014
You, on the other hand, are aware of the occasional mistakes you make and it frustrates you. Maybe the only difference between you and native speakers is that level of awareness.
posted by mono blanco at 6:42 PM on September 23, 2014
I think it's worth trying to fix. Especially if you write for a living. It's incredibly annoying not to be able to communicate clearly and easily with the people around you. (I spent a year in Germany learning German, and whilst my spoken German is understandable, my written just goes round in circles. I have tried to improve, and know how hard it is.) And, yes, people will make negative assumptions about you based on your language skills. There's few actual mistakes in your post, but it does seem laboured. The sentences are a bit messy, and they don't flow particularly well. If anything, you're overusing idioms.
Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff is learnt by osmosis, which we seem to lose the knack for as we get older. When you're learning a second language it can be really, really easy to repeat and reinforce mistakes so long as people understand you, especially as people don't like to correct adults. It'll take some effort to relearn correct, or just more common, ways of expressing yourself.
I agree that you probably need some help. Get yourself a tutor who specialises in ESL, and let them correct you. Put your common mistakes on flash cards, and use Anki to get them into your long term memory. It sounds incredibly dull, but spaced repitition is brilliant for really learning things, and Anki makes it really straightforward.
There are a lot of 'rules' and 'tricks' that native speakers were taught in early primary school, that you probably missed. It'd be worth looking them up. For example, for plurals, there are a few rules that most words subscribe to, and then the irregular plurals would have been practised. Maybe look for some kids' grammar books. Anything you struggle with, you can ask your tutor, and then make into a flashcard.
For prepositions, you'll probably have to rote learn them with Anki. (If you do figure out a better way, please tell me!)
Once you've gotten rid of the bulk of your little mistakes, I think it would be worth doing a writing course or two. This would help with sentence structure and flow. Good luck.
posted by kjs4 at 6:48 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff is learnt by osmosis, which we seem to lose the knack for as we get older. When you're learning a second language it can be really, really easy to repeat and reinforce mistakes so long as people understand you, especially as people don't like to correct adults. It'll take some effort to relearn correct, or just more common, ways of expressing yourself.
I agree that you probably need some help. Get yourself a tutor who specialises in ESL, and let them correct you. Put your common mistakes on flash cards, and use Anki to get them into your long term memory. It sounds incredibly dull, but spaced repitition is brilliant for really learning things, and Anki makes it really straightforward.
There are a lot of 'rules' and 'tricks' that native speakers were taught in early primary school, that you probably missed. It'd be worth looking them up. For example, for plurals, there are a few rules that most words subscribe to, and then the irregular plurals would have been practised. Maybe look for some kids' grammar books. Anything you struggle with, you can ask your tutor, and then make into a flashcard.
For prepositions, you'll probably have to rote learn them with Anki. (If you do figure out a better way, please tell me!)
Once you've gotten rid of the bulk of your little mistakes, I think it would be worth doing a writing course or two. This would help with sentence structure and flow. Good luck.
posted by kjs4 at 6:48 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I second Elysum's second point.
You can learn a lot about how your voice works by repeating things until you get them just right.
I have a personal preference for old Warner Brothers cartoons, as that's what I spent hours and hours mimicking as a child. If Mel Blanc could do it, why can't you?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 6:49 PM on September 23, 2014
You can learn a lot about how your voice works by repeating things until you get them just right.
I have a personal preference for old Warner Brothers cartoons, as that's what I spent hours and hours mimicking as a child. If Mel Blanc could do it, why can't you?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 6:49 PM on September 23, 2014
Mod note: pixxie you don't have to answer every comment soon after it goes up, we call that threadsitting, which is discouraged. Maybe check back periodically after a few more hours?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:50 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:50 PM on September 23, 2014
Riffing off mono blanco's comment: If it helps you obsess less about your speech, perfectly unaccented English is not going to let you completely overcome the sociological deck that North American has stacked.
To maximize your chances of improvement-by-osmosis: Make sure there's room in your life to chat with people whose speech patterns you want to pick up -- think literary book club, not technical usergroup meetup.
posted by batter_my_heart at 7:00 PM on September 23, 2014
To maximize your chances of improvement-by-osmosis: Make sure there's room in your life to chat with people whose speech patterns you want to pick up -- think literary book club, not technical usergroup meetup.
posted by batter_my_heart at 7:00 PM on September 23, 2014
Something I (native English speaker) do with Mr. Elastic (learned English as a teen/adult) that's been very effective is to make a little *bzzt* sound whenever he makes a mistake. This is much more effective than me telling him the correct thing or explaining the grammar (because he knows the correct grammar, it just doesn't always flow in spoken language). When I make the you-made-a-mistake-sound he has to figure out what the mistake was and then correct it. Pretty soon he starts catching it before I make the sound and it retrains his flow.
For the record, he's asked me to do this. I actually like a lot of the "mistakes" he makes, they usually make a lot of sense and often times are more eloquent than the proper way to say something. If you have people in your life who'd be willing to do this, I think it could help!
posted by hannahelastic at 7:02 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
For the record, he's asked me to do this. I actually like a lot of the "mistakes" he makes, they usually make a lot of sense and often times are more eloquent than the proper way to say something. If you have people in your life who'd be willing to do this, I think it could help!
posted by hannahelastic at 7:02 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
After reading your long post, your grammar looks perfect.
posted by Mountain28 at 7:04 PM on September 23, 2014
posted by Mountain28 at 7:04 PM on September 23, 2014
I was taught, and I believe it's still held, that there's a period of language plasticity in children where their brains are set up to receive and learn one (or more) languages, intuitively absorbing the full grammatical structure of it even without formal teaching, up to around the start of puberty. After that, learning has to be done more through habituation and effort, and languages learnt after this period tend to have some rough edges that are hard to sand down even with years of work.
So it's not a deficiency in your skills or ability - it's just the nature of learning a new language later in life. On the good side it should mean that that last 5% is within reach eventually - just something that will eventually come in time as you keep working at it and correcting mistakes. I'm sure you'll get it - good luck!
posted by Drexen at 7:05 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
So it's not a deficiency in your skills or ability - it's just the nature of learning a new language later in life. On the good side it should mean that that last 5% is within reach eventually - just something that will eventually come in time as you keep working at it and correcting mistakes. I'm sure you'll get it - good luck!
posted by Drexen at 7:05 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Your English doesn't suck - it's just not perfect. My French is in about that position: near-native fluency but some annoying anglicisms and bad habits that I picked up in my early days learning the language. My German used to be near-native, but I haven't used it much in 18 years, so it has gotten a lot worse. And when I speak either language, I notice a significant amount of effort is going into the form (being correct, as much as possible), which sometimes means that the content is more banal than I would wish.
As an academic who is attuned to precise expression, of course you are frustrated with your slight imperfections. So am I. Time will make it better, as Drexen notes.
As for accent, I second the advice to sing. I also talk to myself a lot in French and German, and listen to TV and radio broadcasts and try to mimic the sounds. I was a musician in school, which I think gave me a leg up on perceiving and imitating sounds. Nonsense songs are good, since there isn't much content to worry about.
BTW, if you haven't run across Gerard Nolst Trenité's poem "The Chaos," take a look. It has most if not all of the irregular English pronunciations in it, and is of interest even to native speakers.
posted by brianogilvie at 7:30 PM on September 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
As an academic who is attuned to precise expression, of course you are frustrated with your slight imperfections. So am I. Time will make it better, as Drexen notes.
As for accent, I second the advice to sing. I also talk to myself a lot in French and German, and listen to TV and radio broadcasts and try to mimic the sounds. I was a musician in school, which I think gave me a leg up on perceiving and imitating sounds. Nonsense songs are good, since there isn't much content to worry about.
BTW, if you haven't run across Gerard Nolst Trenité's poem "The Chaos," take a look. It has most if not all of the irregular English pronunciations in it, and is of interest even to native speakers.
posted by brianogilvie at 7:30 PM on September 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
I went to Japan when I was 23 years old, and picked up Japanese there. I learned enough to be able to work in a professional setting, although my ability to write at a professional level is not there. But if I had stayed in Japan I think it would be by now.
It sounds like you need to get serious about improving your English. You need a methodical, strategic approach with clear goals, and ways of measuring progress.
That's how I got where I got with Japanese. If I can do it in a foreign language, you should be able to do it in English as your second language.
But it takes a methodical, measurable approach.
It's also important to remember that not all native speakers of English or any other language can operate at a "superior" level. English ability is a continuum, but the good news is that if you really, really, really actually work at it, you will improve.
posted by Nevin at 8:05 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you need to get serious about improving your English. You need a methodical, strategic approach with clear goals, and ways of measuring progress.
That's how I got where I got with Japanese. If I can do it in a foreign language, you should be able to do it in English as your second language.
But it takes a methodical, measurable approach.
It's also important to remember that not all native speakers of English or any other language can operate at a "superior" level. English ability is a continuum, but the good news is that if you really, really, really actually work at it, you will improve.
posted by Nevin at 8:05 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I do a lot of editing work and native English speakers, including professional writers and communicators, make little mistakes all the time. And then I have to fix them. And I know a lot of intelligent, well educated, well read native English speakers who just can't express themselves well in writing no matter how hard they try. I think I developed solid proofreading and editing skills in English without even trying, through reading a LOT of books, including quite a bit of classic literature, when I was younger. It was easier when there was no Internet to shorten my attention span. I'd also credit Catholic grade school where we sat in English class day after day doing drills on grammar rules and literally diagramming sentences on the chalkboard.
I speak/read/write a second language (French) but I got stuck at that 90-95% fluency rate at my very best, because I didn't sit down and read enough serious writing, and I didn't work very hard on my grammar homework back in early college. And even though I needed to listen to the radio, watch film/tv, hold conversations and eventually do a full immersion in the language to really be able to speak fluently, something's always been missing because I didn't do my grammar homework very well. I know it's kind of tedious but that might be what you need to do. Grammar rules have lots of exceptions but it is so helpful to learn the rules.
posted by citron at 8:26 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I speak/read/write a second language (French) but I got stuck at that 90-95% fluency rate at my very best, because I didn't sit down and read enough serious writing, and I didn't work very hard on my grammar homework back in early college. And even though I needed to listen to the radio, watch film/tv, hold conversations and eventually do a full immersion in the language to really be able to speak fluently, something's always been missing because I didn't do my grammar homework very well. I know it's kind of tedious but that might be what you need to do. Grammar rules have lots of exceptions but it is so helpful to learn the rules.
posted by citron at 8:26 PM on September 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The number of people here commenting that your grammar is perfect should be reassuring to you. If they are native English speakers (I'm assuming most are), then they can't tell that your English is flawed. When you look at how many people - including native English speakers - have trouble with your/you're, they're/their/there, its/it's, stationery/stationary, discreet/discrete (the list goes on), you're doing fine.
However, you don't want to improve your English to impress native English-speakers, you want to improve it to your own satisfaction. And you have made quite a few grammatical mistakes. Some of these are perfectly appropriate for the situation - I just made a grammatical mistake by starting a sentence with "and", but because my tone is conversational, it doesn't really matter. Part of having mastery of a language is actually knowing when it's okay to let grammar slip.
As an ex-editor and sometime Grammar Queen, I can tell you that being grammatical can make you stick out more than being ungrammatical. If you were to say "it is hoped that the weather will be fine this weekend" you would be grammatical. People would probably also think you are a time traveller from the 18th or 19th century. "Hopefully" is so common now that no one thinks twice about saying it. Other things, like "none of them is" (correct) vs "none of them are" (not correct, but ubiquitous).
And then there are idioms and regional variations. For example, growing up in the US, if the time was 11.45 I said it was "quarter of 12". Now that I have moved to Australia, that sounds horrible and weird to me. Here it's "quarter to 12". Other constructions, like "next weekend" I am just terribly confused about and I am never sure whether the person I am speaking to means the next weekend that will happen, or the weekend next week. You'd think I'd know which is the general Australian way after 20 years, but I still need to ask for clarification.
Anyhow. Things you can do: read more. Read widely across different registers as well as genres. Academic speak is all very well, and reddit will definitely help you master bad grammar and poor expression if that's your wish, but read people who can actually write. Read newspapers, magazines, novels. Read classic literature and trashy fiction. Read books for teenagers. Read books for children (this can be easier if you have a niece/nephew). After a while, it sinks in, and helps you work out how to select the appropriate register and level of grammar to use.
Other things you can try: approaching it systematically, especially since you said your English teacher didn't really focus on the grammatical rules for things. (This isn't surprising; I learnt more about the structure of English grammar from studying French grammar, despite having had some grammar-obsessed English teachers.) Obviously I can't tell if this is pitched at the right level, but things like this site have both explanations of how grammar works and lots of exercises and examples. You might also find it helpful to learn how to diagram sentences to help think about how they are constructed. Sometimes taking something down to its basic components can help it become effortlessly complex.
Go easy on yourself. English is insanely complicated, and you have already done really well. You can get there but it will take a lot of practice and immersion in the language. If that sounds like too much work, don't worry, you're fine.
Oh and I can't resist: If your parents pulled a 360 on you, that means they went round in a complete circle, ending exactly where they began. It should be a 180 (exactly opposite to where you started). And plenty of English speakers (including myself!) have gotten this wrong.
Sorry for the length of reply but I seemed to have a lot to say on the subject because I find language and English pretty fascinating, and you gave me a lot to think about!
posted by Athanassiel at 8:46 PM on September 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
However, you don't want to improve your English to impress native English-speakers, you want to improve it to your own satisfaction. And you have made quite a few grammatical mistakes. Some of these are perfectly appropriate for the situation - I just made a grammatical mistake by starting a sentence with "and", but because my tone is conversational, it doesn't really matter. Part of having mastery of a language is actually knowing when it's okay to let grammar slip.
As an ex-editor and sometime Grammar Queen, I can tell you that being grammatical can make you stick out more than being ungrammatical. If you were to say "it is hoped that the weather will be fine this weekend" you would be grammatical. People would probably also think you are a time traveller from the 18th or 19th century. "Hopefully" is so common now that no one thinks twice about saying it. Other things, like "none of them is" (correct) vs "none of them are" (not correct, but ubiquitous).
And then there are idioms and regional variations. For example, growing up in the US, if the time was 11.45 I said it was "quarter of 12". Now that I have moved to Australia, that sounds horrible and weird to me. Here it's "quarter to 12". Other constructions, like "next weekend" I am just terribly confused about and I am never sure whether the person I am speaking to means the next weekend that will happen, or the weekend next week. You'd think I'd know which is the general Australian way after 20 years, but I still need to ask for clarification.
Anyhow. Things you can do: read more. Read widely across different registers as well as genres. Academic speak is all very well, and reddit will definitely help you master bad grammar and poor expression if that's your wish, but read people who can actually write. Read newspapers, magazines, novels. Read classic literature and trashy fiction. Read books for teenagers. Read books for children (this can be easier if you have a niece/nephew). After a while, it sinks in, and helps you work out how to select the appropriate register and level of grammar to use.
Other things you can try: approaching it systematically, especially since you said your English teacher didn't really focus on the grammatical rules for things. (This isn't surprising; I learnt more about the structure of English grammar from studying French grammar, despite having had some grammar-obsessed English teachers.) Obviously I can't tell if this is pitched at the right level, but things like this site have both explanations of how grammar works and lots of exercises and examples. You might also find it helpful to learn how to diagram sentences to help think about how they are constructed. Sometimes taking something down to its basic components can help it become effortlessly complex.
Go easy on yourself. English is insanely complicated, and you have already done really well. You can get there but it will take a lot of practice and immersion in the language. If that sounds like too much work, don't worry, you're fine.
Oh and I can't resist: If your parents pulled a 360 on you, that means they went round in a complete circle, ending exactly where they began. It should be a 180 (exactly opposite to where you started). And plenty of English speakers (including myself!) have gotten this wrong.
Sorry for the length of reply but I seemed to have a lot to say on the subject because I find language and English pretty fascinating, and you gave me a lot to think about!
posted by Athanassiel at 8:46 PM on September 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Re how to progress from "good enough" to "perfect", this is something every single English speaker would like to know.
You mention a few examples, like pronouncing service and surface the same, having trouble with "inferior", etc. I'm pretty sure every English speaker who thinks a lot about language has noticed some of this stuff in their own speech. For example when I had a job in college as the main point of contact with a lot of international students, I realized that the way I pronounce "can't" is almost indistinguishable from the way I pronounce "can". That final t is just barely there, and most likely other English speakers are only able to tell what I mean from context, or because of inflection. After a few misunderstandings at work, I started being more mindful of it and made sure to enunciate clearly or rephrase what I wanted to say to avoid easy can't/can misunderstandings.
At this point in your English speaking life, this might be the best way to proceed. Know what your trouble spots are and work on them individually. Focus on situations where you find you have trouble making yourself understood, or where there's a risk of stumbling in a way that makes you uncomfortable. Yes, as soon as you correct one trouble spot, you'll notice another. You have the rest of your life to get better at this. It's not a race, and there's no big test to study for. Just keep on keeping on.
posted by Sara C. at 11:30 PM on September 23, 2014
You mention a few examples, like pronouncing service and surface the same, having trouble with "inferior", etc. I'm pretty sure every English speaker who thinks a lot about language has noticed some of this stuff in their own speech. For example when I had a job in college as the main point of contact with a lot of international students, I realized that the way I pronounce "can't" is almost indistinguishable from the way I pronounce "can". That final t is just barely there, and most likely other English speakers are only able to tell what I mean from context, or because of inflection. After a few misunderstandings at work, I started being more mindful of it and made sure to enunciate clearly or rephrase what I wanted to say to avoid easy can't/can misunderstandings.
At this point in your English speaking life, this might be the best way to proceed. Know what your trouble spots are and work on them individually. Focus on situations where you find you have trouble making yourself understood, or where there's a risk of stumbling in a way that makes you uncomfortable. Yes, as soon as you correct one trouble spot, you'll notice another. You have the rest of your life to get better at this. It's not a race, and there's no big test to study for. Just keep on keeping on.
posted by Sara C. at 11:30 PM on September 23, 2014
I'm a native English speaker who is fluent in Spanish and is learning Mandarin. I have 2 suggestions:
1. Teach! My Spanish never got so good as when I started teaching it to other people. I like to joke that becoming a Spanish professor cleared up my problems with the subjunctive mood just from the sheer volume of times I was telling my students what to do in-language. Perhaps tutoring other Cantonese ESL students?
2. Concentrate on one thing at a time. Although I knew the rules for gender in Spanish, when I got talking they would fly out of my head and I'd make all kinds of mistakes. So I focused on that for a while until I got really good at gender agreement - really paying attention to my nouns and adjectives. Spanish pronounces the letter D slightly differently from English, which, again, intellectually I knew, but struggled to put into practice. So I spent a year really focusing on the letter D when I spoke. I do it instinctively now. But I didn't try to correct all my errors at once, which was key.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:31 AM on September 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
1. Teach! My Spanish never got so good as when I started teaching it to other people. I like to joke that becoming a Spanish professor cleared up my problems with the subjunctive mood just from the sheer volume of times I was telling my students what to do in-language. Perhaps tutoring other Cantonese ESL students?
2. Concentrate on one thing at a time. Although I knew the rules for gender in Spanish, when I got talking they would fly out of my head and I'd make all kinds of mistakes. So I focused on that for a while until I got really good at gender agreement - really paying attention to my nouns and adjectives. Spanish pronounces the letter D slightly differently from English, which, again, intellectually I knew, but struggled to put into practice. So I spent a year really focusing on the letter D when I spoke. I do it instinctively now. But I didn't try to correct all my errors at once, which was key.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:31 AM on September 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
That's essentially my question, how to I progress from "good enough" to "perfect"?
As a native speaker myself (with a neutral Midwestern accent), I have to deliberately slow down, and think before I speak, in order to sound perfect.
I privately think of it as my "phone voice" or "meeting voice," and only use it when I need to appear especially intimidating, authoritative, or confident.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:14 AM on September 24, 2014
As a native speaker myself (with a neutral Midwestern accent), I have to deliberately slow down, and think before I speak, in order to sound perfect.
I privately think of it as my "phone voice" or "meeting voice," and only use it when I need to appear especially intimidating, authoritative, or confident.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:14 AM on September 24, 2014
Find a linguist (ie linguistics grad) who specializes in Cantonese-English vocal differences as they will train you to hear the differences in those words you mention.
Pick up a basic grammar book and read it. It will teach you those differences between worse/worst.
Take a TOEFL test and get a placement. That external grade might help you see things more objectively.
Give your friends permission to correct you "in the moment."
Let it go. One of my girlfriends is from Hong Kong, she has those odd idioms and turns of phrase and no one cares, in fact it's quite charming, especially since otherwise her English is quite good.
Don't be so hard on yourself. What IS fluency anyways? Everyone can express themselves better. Do you feel comfortable speaking? Do you dream in English? Maybe you're just a second culture kid and you'll always kinda feel inbetween things and you're just pinning it on English in this case, when it is not language but culture.
Accept it. You changed languages twice (!) at the nebulous period where easy language acquisition starts to dissolve in the average person (8-12). This may be a feature, not a bug.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:22 AM on September 24, 2014
Pick up a basic grammar book and read it. It will teach you those differences between worse/worst.
Take a TOEFL test and get a placement. That external grade might help you see things more objectively.
Give your friends permission to correct you "in the moment."
Let it go. One of my girlfriends is from Hong Kong, she has those odd idioms and turns of phrase and no one cares, in fact it's quite charming, especially since otherwise her English is quite good.
Don't be so hard on yourself. What IS fluency anyways? Everyone can express themselves better. Do you feel comfortable speaking? Do you dream in English? Maybe you're just a second culture kid and you'll always kinda feel inbetween things and you're just pinning it on English in this case, when it is not language but culture.
Accept it. You changed languages twice (!) at the nebulous period where easy language acquisition starts to dissolve in the average person (8-12). This may be a feature, not a bug.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:22 AM on September 24, 2014
Hey chief, I'm a guy who writes for a living and edits other people's writing for a living and you're holding yourself to a higher standard than most of the professional English writers out there.
That said, read more fiction! Read more writing about writing fiction! Academese is a shambling nightmare of prose nine times out of ten. Academic authors are awful and mercilessly bludgeon most of the good, fun, colorful things out of language while hewing to random jargon and obfuscatory tics (my fiancee is an academic; I read a fair amount of academic literature). It's almost as bad as business writing, which never met a metaphor it couldn't mix.
There's lots of good advice in this thread, but the best is to stop beating yourself up about this.
posted by klangklangston at 12:21 PM on September 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
That said, read more fiction! Read more writing about writing fiction! Academese is a shambling nightmare of prose nine times out of ten. Academic authors are awful and mercilessly bludgeon most of the good, fun, colorful things out of language while hewing to random jargon and obfuscatory tics (my fiancee is an academic; I read a fair amount of academic literature). It's almost as bad as business writing, which never met a metaphor it couldn't mix.
There's lots of good advice in this thread, but the best is to stop beating yourself up about this.
posted by klangklangston at 12:21 PM on September 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I think it's because you didn't start until you were 12, and it was language number 3 for you at the time (even though it's the only one you use now). There are certain things in certain languages that I think you'll only get right 100% of the time if you're a native speaker AND a grammar nerd. You were already in secondary school by the time you started learning it.
And do you really need to get rid of your accent? It's your accent. Although I can't hear you, I'd be willing to bet my life that you're completely comprehensible, even if some of the words you say don't sound 100% like a "standard" Canadian English.
posted by Enchanting Grasshopper at 12:31 PM on September 24, 2014
And do you really need to get rid of your accent? It's your accent. Although I can't hear you, I'd be willing to bet my life that you're completely comprehensible, even if some of the words you say don't sound 100% like a "standard" Canadian English.
posted by Enchanting Grasshopper at 12:31 PM on September 24, 2014
Fwiw, I thought you might find something of use in an opposite perspective here. What's generally perceived as an uncanny skill of mine to pick up languages, including accent (and even regional inflection), to a Zeligesque degree of full-blown native mimicry, is often enough something of a burden that I struggle with: there is (or at least, so it seems to me) great peace of mind in just embracing one's specific linguistic identity/idiom whatever that may be.
A high quality of communication, which I'm taking is what you're really hoping/aiming for, isn't something that is necessarily best reached via pristine grammar and/or lexicon - it's just as effective if you're entirely self-assured in your own special mode/flavour of speech, warts-and-all. An accent is often referred to as charming, but it goes beyond that: if it's stripped of the artifical stigma of imperfection (as mentioned by others above: what IS perfection/fluency anyway?), accent and quirk are the very stuff of identity.
A way to frame the issue - useful for working it either way, actually - is to think of your language performance quite literally as a role that you play. This connects to the idea of an actor's language coach as a possible resource for you, should you choose to hone your speaking, but before that, as a conceptual lens through which to re-examine, and quite possibly learn to love your personal voice for its very own distinctions, its refusal to conform.
posted by progosk at 2:59 PM on September 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
A high quality of communication, which I'm taking is what you're really hoping/aiming for, isn't something that is necessarily best reached via pristine grammar and/or lexicon - it's just as effective if you're entirely self-assured in your own special mode/flavour of speech, warts-and-all. An accent is often referred to as charming, but it goes beyond that: if it's stripped of the artifical stigma of imperfection (as mentioned by others above: what IS perfection/fluency anyway?), accent and quirk are the very stuff of identity.
A way to frame the issue - useful for working it either way, actually - is to think of your language performance quite literally as a role that you play. This connects to the idea of an actor's language coach as a possible resource for you, should you choose to hone your speaking, but before that, as a conceptual lens through which to re-examine, and quite possibly learn to love your personal voice for its very own distinctions, its refusal to conform.
posted by progosk at 2:59 PM on September 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Surprisingly, reading can work against you when you try to improve your pronunciation and fluency. What's happening is when you try to read, your brain sees the letters and converts it to something similar from your native tongue, which perpetuates the problem. Instead you need to unlearn the pronunciation, and relearn to see words with their IPA spelling.
There are several resources to help you with that, I've collected them many years ago, so there might be better resources now.
* Fonetiks
* IPA Charts
* Speech Accent Archive, see especially the IPA transcription
* Phoentics Focus
* Pimsleur's is excellent beginner's audio course which I've used to gain fluency in a couple of languages, not sure if it'll work at your level.
posted by Sharcho at 2:49 AM on September 25, 2014
There are several resources to help you with that, I've collected them many years ago, so there might be better resources now.
* Fonetiks
* IPA Charts
* Speech Accent Archive, see especially the IPA transcription
* Phoentics Focus
* Pimsleur's is excellent beginner's audio course which I've used to gain fluency in a couple of languages, not sure if it'll work at your level.
posted by Sharcho at 2:49 AM on September 25, 2014
I am in English teacher in Hong Kong and so many of the seemingly-small errors and issues that you mention being a native Cantonese speaker - things like surface and service - are things I notice not just with my students but with the teachers I work with as well.
I totally agree with wintersweet's advice to read things with dialogue, and to look at working on minimal pairs; for Cantonese speakers this can be a real issue even later in their English language development.
A nightmare scenario for you sounds like hearing yourself give a speech with perfect English that you practiced and perfected and then answering a question from the audience and forgetting the third-person S at the end of a verb. The thought that this could happen at any time must be absolutely mortifying, and I think a little bit of refinement on your end, perhaps with help from a linguistics student familiar with Cantonese, could definitely help ameliorate the anxiety that you feel.
Good luck!
posted by mdonley at 9:32 PM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
I totally agree with wintersweet's advice to read things with dialogue, and to look at working on minimal pairs; for Cantonese speakers this can be a real issue even later in their English language development.
A nightmare scenario for you sounds like hearing yourself give a speech with perfect English that you practiced and perfected and then answering a question from the audience and forgetting the third-person S at the end of a verb. The thought that this could happen at any time must be absolutely mortifying, and I think a little bit of refinement on your end, perhaps with help from a linguistics student familiar with Cantonese, could definitely help ameliorate the anxiety that you feel.
Good luck!
posted by mdonley at 9:32 PM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
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