My son hangs out on 4chan. This worries me. Now what .
September 6, 2014 12:20 PM Subscribe
My son spends way too much time on 4chan and it really worries me.
My son is 19, with mild ASD. Sometime in the last 2 years he discovered 4chan. At first he was just reading /co, but now he is almost addicted to /pol and /v. Before he went back to college he was constantly online, getting all worked up about Zoe Quinn and gamergate.
I raised him to be a feminist, a liberal and a kind person. It hurts me that he is involved with such sexist, racist, anti-Semitic people. I don't even have the words to express how sad this makes me.
Because he is 19, he of course knows more than me. I'm just his ignorant mom. So I don't even know how to approach this conversation. What do I say that won't just make him dig his heels in more?
My son is 19, with mild ASD. Sometime in the last 2 years he discovered 4chan. At first he was just reading /co, but now he is almost addicted to /pol and /v. Before he went back to college he was constantly online, getting all worked up about Zoe Quinn and gamergate.
I raised him to be a feminist, a liberal and a kind person. It hurts me that he is involved with such sexist, racist, anti-Semitic people. I don't even have the words to express how sad this makes me.
Because he is 19, he of course knows more than me. I'm just his ignorant mom. So I don't even know how to approach this conversation. What do I say that won't just make him dig his heels in more?
My (kind of weird) political views at 19 were vastly different to the ones I hold today (past 30). I argued enthusiastically and had perfectly rational grounds for holding them; but looking back, those views were also predicated on where my personality and outlook were at the time-- and specifically, on my being too young and inexperienced to appreciate a lot of the nuances of human conduct that I've since come to understand. As I've matured, my politics have naturally grown up with me.
You can get into your son's politics if you want, but if I were you, I'd mostly regard his ideology as an epiphenomenon of his larger pattern of personal development, and focus on making sure thatgoes OK. Is he happy, well-adjusted, meeting lots of different people, getting to spend adequate time with the opposite sex? Does he have good, fulfilling work to do? Is he satisfied with himself and his relationships and his place in the world? He may not turn out to be a political carbon-copy of you, but I've got to think that sanity in the rest of his life will go a long way toward ensuring that his politics stay sane, too.
posted by Bardolph at 12:40 PM on September 6, 2014 [14 favorites]
You can get into your son's politics if you want, but if I were you, I'd mostly regard his ideology as an epiphenomenon of his larger pattern of personal development, and focus on making sure thatgoes OK. Is he happy, well-adjusted, meeting lots of different people, getting to spend adequate time with the opposite sex? Does he have good, fulfilling work to do? Is he satisfied with himself and his relationships and his place in the world? He may not turn out to be a political carbon-copy of you, but I've got to think that sanity in the rest of his life will go a long way toward ensuring that his politics stay sane, too.
posted by Bardolph at 12:40 PM on September 6, 2014 [14 favorites]
He is 19 - he is starting to get used to being an adult. The bad news is you have to treat him like one, so there is not so much a mother can do to influence someone at 19 compared to when he was 16.
But he is going to college. The best thing you can do is encourage him to get involved with college societies and clubs and become a more outgoing person. I Think it might not work, but it will work far more than trying to interrogate him about online habits he probably thinks are private from you.
Equally, he needs to know this kind of rhetoric is out of bounds in your house. Block those sites on your own wifi, he can get around the block but he at least knows you don't approve. Make it clear that what he does in his own place is his business, but you won't allow it in your house. Give him respect but enforce your own boundaries.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 12:42 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
But he is going to college. The best thing you can do is encourage him to get involved with college societies and clubs and become a more outgoing person. I Think it might not work, but it will work far more than trying to interrogate him about online habits he probably thinks are private from you.
Equally, he needs to know this kind of rhetoric is out of bounds in your house. Block those sites on your own wifi, he can get around the block but he at least knows you don't approve. Make it clear that what he does in his own place is his business, but you won't allow it in your house. Give him respect but enforce your own boundaries.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 12:42 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
/v/'s okay. Its denizens mostly just talk about video games, and when they do their commentary tends to be fairly incisive. I'm 37 and I read it occasionally yet don't consider myself a terrible person.
So I guess what I'd offer is, don't worry? Reading a forum in which offensive shit is often posted does not mean you agree with said offensive shit. That said, if your son is getting his worldview from 4chan, it's a problem and he probably needs to make an effort to shut down the computer and go outside some more.
posted by killdevil at 12:46 PM on September 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
So I guess what I'd offer is, don't worry? Reading a forum in which offensive shit is often posted does not mean you agree with said offensive shit. That said, if your son is getting his worldview from 4chan, it's a problem and he probably needs to make an effort to shut down the computer and go outside some more.
posted by killdevil at 12:46 PM on September 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
I've never been a parent, so take this with the generous helping of salt it deserves, but here's my thought: rather than directly addressing the obviously problematic nature of the views he's being exposed to on 4chan, talk with him about the dangers of forming one's opinions in an echo chamber. If you can start out the discussion using someone else as an example and get him on board with that, then you can bring it around to 4chan and explain you're concerned about the same happening with him.
posted by adamrice at 12:48 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 12:48 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
When I was 20 or so I briefly -- and I mean briefly -- flirted with the idea of registering as a Republican. My mother's response was basically a politely smiling "How interesting, dear!" and needless to say, it wore off.
In fact, it is only as an adult I can look back at the nearly unceasing series of truly stupid decisions I made and understand how brave my parents were to let me make them, and realise how much more entrenched I would have been in Republicanism / Woo / Stupid / Whatever if they had allowed a schism to develop over these things.
It's an age where you are desperately trying to develop your identity, casting about and trying things on, and the there's an extent to which I think adopting things at odds with your upbringing are just part of the process. Having said that...
a) It was a long time ago and there was not the same ability to utterly saturate yourself with A Thing that the Internet now offers. I know how that plays in my 42-year-old-brain, but I'm unsure how the science plays for people who's brains are still maturing.
b) I was raised to have excellent critical thinking skills, nurtured by both my education and my family. Pretty sure my parents had a reasonable level of confidence I would eventually realise exactly how stupid my stupid phases were and right myself. I don't know if you can have that same confidence, or if you think your some might be gullible in a way that makes him specifically vulnerable.
So I'm not sure where that goes in terms of specific advice, but I would advice gentleness in whatever you do.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:14 PM on September 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
In fact, it is only as an adult I can look back at the nearly unceasing series of truly stupid decisions I made and understand how brave my parents were to let me make them, and realise how much more entrenched I would have been in Republicanism / Woo / Stupid / Whatever if they had allowed a schism to develop over these things.
It's an age where you are desperately trying to develop your identity, casting about and trying things on, and the there's an extent to which I think adopting things at odds with your upbringing are just part of the process. Having said that...
a) It was a long time ago and there was not the same ability to utterly saturate yourself with A Thing that the Internet now offers. I know how that plays in my 42-year-old-brain, but I'm unsure how the science plays for people who's brains are still maturing.
b) I was raised to have excellent critical thinking skills, nurtured by both my education and my family. Pretty sure my parents had a reasonable level of confidence I would eventually realise exactly how stupid my stupid phases were and right myself. I don't know if you can have that same confidence, or if you think your some might be gullible in a way that makes him specifically vulnerable.
So I'm not sure where that goes in terms of specific advice, but I would advice gentleness in whatever you do.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:14 PM on September 6, 2014 [11 favorites]
One of the neat things about ASD people is that they don't necessarily get in step with the groupthink of the people around them. Also, sometimes, they are participating in x group in order to have someone to screw with for giggles (an agenda it sounds like you might kind of approve of in this instance). They aren't necessarily relating to others in the way that more "normal" people would.
So I will cast in my lot with those saying "have you asked him what he is getting out of this?"
posted by Michele in California at 1:38 PM on September 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
So I will cast in my lot with those saying "have you asked him what he is getting out of this?"
posted by Michele in California at 1:38 PM on September 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, sometimes, they are participating in x group in order to have someone to screw with for giggles (an agenda it sounds like you might kind of approve of in this instance).
That's probably open to wild misinterpretation. Let me suggest: He is there for the videogame discussions (or whatever the main topic is). Screwing with people who are, for example, anti-Semitic is probably just a Bonus! Also, when my oldest son screws with people about things like that, he is no longer doing it "just for giggles" like he did when he was a kid. He still gets giggles out of it, but he also has some social justice type goals of not wanting to simply stand idly by and let other people think awful things and espouse them in public and so on. And he realizes he is sometimes sort of uniquely well positioned to poke holes in their ideas.
So, yeah, not the approach I would take. But he and I sometimes have interesting discussions about the way he chooses to participate in online forums. And I can't really find it in me to tell him he is simply wrong or shouldn't participate in forums where there is a topic of mutual interest (to him and other people there) but some folks there are Wrong On The Internet and he has some things to say about it.
posted by Michele in California at 1:50 PM on September 6, 2014
That's probably open to wild misinterpretation. Let me suggest: He is there for the videogame discussions (or whatever the main topic is). Screwing with people who are, for example, anti-Semitic is probably just a Bonus! Also, when my oldest son screws with people about things like that, he is no longer doing it "just for giggles" like he did when he was a kid. He still gets giggles out of it, but he also has some social justice type goals of not wanting to simply stand idly by and let other people think awful things and espouse them in public and so on. And he realizes he is sometimes sort of uniquely well positioned to poke holes in their ideas.
So, yeah, not the approach I would take. But he and I sometimes have interesting discussions about the way he chooses to participate in online forums. And I can't really find it in me to tell him he is simply wrong or shouldn't participate in forums where there is a topic of mutual interest (to him and other people there) but some folks there are Wrong On The Internet and he has some things to say about it.
posted by Michele in California at 1:50 PM on September 6, 2014
Response by poster: I definitely haven't been taking the "that's nice, dear" approach. I like to argue about politics, and until now we've been able to have interesting conversations. All of a sudden, though, this is all he cares about. He doesn't do any clubs and has a limited social group. He has a vehement hatred of "SJWs" and people like Anita Sarkisian. I know this attitude has impacted the way he deals with real, live people at school. It really, really upsets me.
In the past I've asked him why he likes it, and his answer was all over the place. I think he sees it as the anti-community where you can be yourself. Obviously, I value communities like this one, so I don't quite get it.
posted by Biblio at 2:19 PM on September 6, 2014
In the past I've asked him why he likes it, and his answer was all over the place. I think he sees it as the anti-community where you can be yourself. Obviously, I value communities like this one, so I don't quite get it.
posted by Biblio at 2:19 PM on September 6, 2014
I remember when I was that age, and hoo boy I was a lew rockwell-reading murray rothbard-loving 'anarchocapitalist' libertarian of that most insufferable sort which the typical Mefite dislikes so well; 8 years hence I am a very left-leaning socialist, mostly because my subsequent experiences added complexities and nuances to the human condition that my immature 19-year old self never could have conceived of (a goodly amount of credit to Mefi for that!)
My parents were, and still are, aggressively apolitical, so they had absolutely nothing to do with the trajectory of my values and beliefs; I can't say for sure, but I suspect if they had tried to push me directly, I would have doubled down quite a bit harder. It is, as others have said, a period of identity experimentation and formation, and that timeline AFAIK isn't terribly different for those on the spectrum. There's a definite rush, and comfort, in finding that sort of philosophical certainty at an age when things seem so uncertain, not to mention the self-righteousness that attends such passion can itself be a pretty addictive sensation. Trying to take that away from me would have caused me to feel victimized and aggrieved, so I probably would have held on even more tightly.
In my limited experience, the 'sideways' approach suggested here is the most you can do: artfully guide him, to whatever extent you can, to activities and environs which might expose him to different perspectives, to people and communities who could both be patient with him and demonstrate in some way that different perspectives not only exist, but are equally (though honestly, more) valid. The only time to really take a direct approach would be when he actually has harmed/is likely to harm a specific person or peoples.
All that said, I think there is one important thing to keep in mind, for the sake of perspective: there is only so much power you have over the kind of person he is and will grow into. I'm sure you already know this. During similarly challenging times with people I care about, I always calm myself by remembering this stanza-and-a-half from that Khalil Gibran poem, 'On Children':
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
I'd also be deeply upset if my future children were going down the same road, but a large dose of patience and a sense of humility in how you relate to him is very important, and is the only way to make the sideways approach effective.
I can only imagine how hard it is to deal with the fear of what he might become in the future, so I really wish you the best in staying strong.
posted by obliterati at 2:20 PM on September 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
My parents were, and still are, aggressively apolitical, so they had absolutely nothing to do with the trajectory of my values and beliefs; I can't say for sure, but I suspect if they had tried to push me directly, I would have doubled down quite a bit harder. It is, as others have said, a period of identity experimentation and formation, and that timeline AFAIK isn't terribly different for those on the spectrum. There's a definite rush, and comfort, in finding that sort of philosophical certainty at an age when things seem so uncertain, not to mention the self-righteousness that attends such passion can itself be a pretty addictive sensation. Trying to take that away from me would have caused me to feel victimized and aggrieved, so I probably would have held on even more tightly.
In my limited experience, the 'sideways' approach suggested here is the most you can do: artfully guide him, to whatever extent you can, to activities and environs which might expose him to different perspectives, to people and communities who could both be patient with him and demonstrate in some way that different perspectives not only exist, but are equally (though honestly, more) valid. The only time to really take a direct approach would be when he actually has harmed/is likely to harm a specific person or peoples.
All that said, I think there is one important thing to keep in mind, for the sake of perspective: there is only so much power you have over the kind of person he is and will grow into. I'm sure you already know this. During similarly challenging times with people I care about, I always calm myself by remembering this stanza-and-a-half from that Khalil Gibran poem, 'On Children':
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
I'd also be deeply upset if my future children were going down the same road, but a large dose of patience and a sense of humility in how you relate to him is very important, and is the only way to make the sideways approach effective.
I can only imagine how hard it is to deal with the fear of what he might become in the future, so I really wish you the best in staying strong.
posted by obliterati at 2:20 PM on September 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
In the past I've asked him why he likes it, and his answer was all over the place.
This sounds to me like you are probably putting him on the spot in a way that makes him defensive because you don't approve and he knows it. And that is not to say "you are a bad parent" that is to say "this tends to be an unproductive approach, resulting in poor communication, even though it may happen with the best of intentions."
I think he sees it as the anti-community where you can be yourself.
He is ASD. He likely gets a lot of flack himself for failing to fit in. So I am wondering what can be done about that, in a constructive way. Because just taking away his outlet because it is having some consequences you don't approve of is not likely to work well, on a number of levels.
posted by Michele in California at 2:40 PM on September 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
This sounds to me like you are probably putting him on the spot in a way that makes him defensive because you don't approve and he knows it. And that is not to say "you are a bad parent" that is to say "this tends to be an unproductive approach, resulting in poor communication, even though it may happen with the best of intentions."
I think he sees it as the anti-community where you can be yourself.
He is ASD. He likely gets a lot of flack himself for failing to fit in. So I am wondering what can be done about that, in a constructive way. Because just taking away his outlet because it is having some consequences you don't approve of is not likely to work well, on a number of levels.
posted by Michele in California at 2:40 PM on September 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
I know he's your son, but he's also an adult. You can like it or not, but he's entitled to his ideas, opinions and as long as he isn't hurting anyone or doing anything illegal. its up to him.
I'd tread carefully.
posted by Middlemarch at 3:29 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'd tread carefully.
posted by Middlemarch at 3:29 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
If he were my kid I would get him a giant bomb subscription and hope their fun videos encourage him to engage with that community.
posted by TimeDoctor at 3:41 PM on September 6, 2014
posted by TimeDoctor at 3:41 PM on September 6, 2014
Nineteen year olds gonna nineteen year old.
I liked, said, and expressed interest in a great many things at nineteen that I would be embarrassed to admit to at thirty-three. And that's not limited to awful clothing and terrible music.
I would want to know if he's taking part in things like the very concrete rape and murder threats people like Zoe Quinn are getting, because that's both reprehensible and illegal.
But it's one thing to express fascination with something shitty, and something else to be actively doing it. If it's really just idle lurking, this is most likely just his way of establishing boundaries as an adult. He knows he's doing something you don't agree with in a relatively harmless way, and that there's nothing you can really do to control his thoughts/tastes/interests.
Also, I feel like it's really easy to fall down an internet rabbit hole and then fall away from it quite quickly.
Maybe sit down and reinforce the difference between disagreeing with Anita Sarkeesian and threatening to murder her?
posted by Sara C. at 4:03 PM on September 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I liked, said, and expressed interest in a great many things at nineteen that I would be embarrassed to admit to at thirty-three. And that's not limited to awful clothing and terrible music.
I would want to know if he's taking part in things like the very concrete rape and murder threats people like Zoe Quinn are getting, because that's both reprehensible and illegal.
But it's one thing to express fascination with something shitty, and something else to be actively doing it. If it's really just idle lurking, this is most likely just his way of establishing boundaries as an adult. He knows he's doing something you don't agree with in a relatively harmless way, and that there's nothing you can really do to control his thoughts/tastes/interests.
Also, I feel like it's really easy to fall down an internet rabbit hole and then fall away from it quite quickly.
Maybe sit down and reinforce the difference between disagreeing with Anita Sarkeesian and threatening to murder her?
posted by Sara C. at 4:03 PM on September 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you know he accesses 4chan you can look at his posts to see what he is actually talking about.4chan is all over the place so if he's established himself in a community it may not be too bad. It isn't private like a dairy though he might get angry at you. But it camngive you an idea what interests him and might help you direct him towards real life social groups or even different Internet communities that may be tame by comparison.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:07 PM on September 6, 2014
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:07 PM on September 6, 2014
If you know he accesses 4chan you can look at his posts to see what he is actually talking about
Actually you can't. Users are anonymous, without fixed usernames, and posts are ephemeral, deleted from the site within minutes to hours.
posted by killdevil at 4:33 PM on September 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
Actually you can't. Users are anonymous, without fixed usernames, and posts are ephemeral, deleted from the site within minutes to hours.
posted by killdevil at 4:33 PM on September 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
Be interested, ask questions that help him think critically about what's going on, make your own perspectives known, but definitely don't force anything. Hopefully it's something he'll grow out of, like my college-age conservatism was.
posted by Aleyn at 7:48 PM on September 6, 2014
posted by Aleyn at 7:48 PM on September 6, 2014
Best answer: For what it's worth, my mother was an avid yoga- and tm-practitioner who made a point of passing that worldview down to me throughout my childhood. Some of it I still value (meditation, casual intellectual interest in Buddhism) and some of it I've discarded (literal belief in past lives), but as an adult I've always felt grateful to her for teaching me those things--not because they're some sort of gospel truth, but because she taught me that it was ok to experiment with non-majority points of view--and, more importantly, because she shared a part of herself with me. So just because your kid doesn't adopt every aspect of your worldview doesn't mean you haven't done something good for him by sharing it. :)
Now, my parents also did plenty that did hamper my development, but those things were psychological and behavioral, not ideological: they had many irrational fears that they were uncritical of; they were defensive and took criticism poorly; they were indecisive and reluctant to move outside their comfort zone; and my dad, in particular, was terrible at managing stress. They were phenomenally loving people and I had an amazing childhood, but they definitely had qualities that didn't always foster great emotional development.
I mention that last part because, if you do try to talk to your son about this, you'll want to be careful to do it a way that doesn't emphasize the fact that you're personally hurt or disappointed by what's going on. As others have implied, you're not in the best position, as his mother, to engage his thinking on these subjects, and he's at an age where he's liable to explore simplistic radical philosophies anyway. If you come across as anxious, personally violated, or uninformed about what's happening he will disengage and your concern for his welfare will lose a lot of credibility with him.
But I also mentioned my upbringing because, aside from the ASD, your post doesn't say much about your son's overall personality. Is he basically a confident person? Does he talk a lot about feeling threatened by or inferior to other people? Is he always angry? These kinds of things, more than the fact of his presence on the site, are what would worry me if I had a child who was having a lot of contact with groups that engage in hate speech. They don't necessarily mean he believes in what those groups promote--as others say, he could be trolling them, or he could just be there to talk about video games--but if he feels especially bad about himself he may find some kind of comfort in the way they project all their negativity onto "others." Contempt for social justice workers could be about feeling he's too socially undesirable to gain acceptance from "positive" people (I've been there); contempt for feminism/feminist game criticism could be about feeling insecure about his sexuality (been there too).
Maybe it would be more effective if you engaged this from the perspective of his social self-image, instead of trying to discuss his 4chan activities directly. If, say, he has a habit of saying negative things about himself, maybe gently ask him why he feels that way the next time he makes one of those comments, and see if you can work your way up to finding out what he gets out of 4chan. You're his mother--you probably know a lot of ways to get him talking. Best of luck to you.
posted by urufu at 7:51 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Now, my parents also did plenty that did hamper my development, but those things were psychological and behavioral, not ideological: they had many irrational fears that they were uncritical of; they were defensive and took criticism poorly; they were indecisive and reluctant to move outside their comfort zone; and my dad, in particular, was terrible at managing stress. They were phenomenally loving people and I had an amazing childhood, but they definitely had qualities that didn't always foster great emotional development.
I mention that last part because, if you do try to talk to your son about this, you'll want to be careful to do it a way that doesn't emphasize the fact that you're personally hurt or disappointed by what's going on. As others have implied, you're not in the best position, as his mother, to engage his thinking on these subjects, and he's at an age where he's liable to explore simplistic radical philosophies anyway. If you come across as anxious, personally violated, or uninformed about what's happening he will disengage and your concern for his welfare will lose a lot of credibility with him.
But I also mentioned my upbringing because, aside from the ASD, your post doesn't say much about your son's overall personality. Is he basically a confident person? Does he talk a lot about feeling threatened by or inferior to other people? Is he always angry? These kinds of things, more than the fact of his presence on the site, are what would worry me if I had a child who was having a lot of contact with groups that engage in hate speech. They don't necessarily mean he believes in what those groups promote--as others say, he could be trolling them, or he could just be there to talk about video games--but if he feels especially bad about himself he may find some kind of comfort in the way they project all their negativity onto "others." Contempt for social justice workers could be about feeling he's too socially undesirable to gain acceptance from "positive" people (I've been there); contempt for feminism/feminist game criticism could be about feeling insecure about his sexuality (been there too).
Maybe it would be more effective if you engaged this from the perspective of his social self-image, instead of trying to discuss his 4chan activities directly. If, say, he has a habit of saying negative things about himself, maybe gently ask him why he feels that way the next time he makes one of those comments, and see if you can work your way up to finding out what he gets out of 4chan. You're his mother--you probably know a lot of ways to get him talking. Best of luck to you.
posted by urufu at 7:51 PM on September 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
From what I've seen, /v/ is really not so bad. It's in the spotlight recently because of "gamergate", but that's just a vocal minority of the site operating largely outside of it. Looking at it now, the most recent topics are "What Miis are you using in Super Smash Bros. 4," "Draw a video game character," and "What do you think of the new Sims game?" Pretty harmless.
/pol/, on the other hand, is a cauldron of vile racist/sexist/reactionary/anti-Semitic shit. Some recent topics there: "Jew Hypocracy" [sic], "Why are Aborigines more primitive than n*ggers," "Bitches 101." A lot of it is trolling, a lot of it is not, and it's poisonous to read heavily either way. So if you're going to target one aspect, focus on that.
Anyway, one possible solution is to introduce him to more mainstream versions of these boards. A bit of a tall order when you're his mom, but you sound pretty plugged-in to the web -- perhaps you'll know a good way to share with him. Two recommendations:
NeoGAF: The MetaFilter of video game forums. A highly-regarded gaming board frequented by big-name game developers, full of substantive discussion and disciplined moderation. It's highly active and fast-paced, with threads routinely reaching dozens of pages, so there's always something new to read. It also features dedicated threads ("OT's") for most major titles, so his favorite games will have their own discussion space. If you want to try this route, note that their policies require a non-free email (like an ISP or college-provided address), and there's a moderate waiting period for registration.
NationStates: a free interactive role-playing game centered on (fictional) geopolitics. You can create a nation, set its flag and motto and currency, and make decisions on complex domestic issues that help define your political system (this might be helpful in terms of illustrating the knock-on effects of far-right-wing policies). You can also join alliances with other players, role-play war, trade, and regional politics, and discuss current events in the General forum -- recent threads include discussions about alcohol prohibition, the conflict in Ukraine, and the idea of self-ownership. I frequented the site a lot when I was his age, and I really enjoyed it for what it was. I did a post about it a few years ago if you want to read more.
And hey, you could always gift him a MeFi account. Maybe wait a few days though and ask a mod to anonymize this question so he's less likely to find it...
posted by Rhaomi at 8:54 PM on September 6, 2014 [10 favorites]
/pol/, on the other hand, is a cauldron of vile racist/sexist/reactionary/anti-Semitic shit. Some recent topics there: "Jew Hypocracy" [sic], "Why are Aborigines more primitive than n*ggers," "Bitches 101." A lot of it is trolling, a lot of it is not, and it's poisonous to read heavily either way. So if you're going to target one aspect, focus on that.
Anyway, one possible solution is to introduce him to more mainstream versions of these boards. A bit of a tall order when you're his mom, but you sound pretty plugged-in to the web -- perhaps you'll know a good way to share with him. Two recommendations:
NeoGAF: The MetaFilter of video game forums. A highly-regarded gaming board frequented by big-name game developers, full of substantive discussion and disciplined moderation. It's highly active and fast-paced, with threads routinely reaching dozens of pages, so there's always something new to read. It also features dedicated threads ("OT's") for most major titles, so his favorite games will have their own discussion space. If you want to try this route, note that their policies require a non-free email (like an ISP or college-provided address), and there's a moderate waiting period for registration.
NationStates: a free interactive role-playing game centered on (fictional) geopolitics. You can create a nation, set its flag and motto and currency, and make decisions on complex domestic issues that help define your political system (this might be helpful in terms of illustrating the knock-on effects of far-right-wing policies). You can also join alliances with other players, role-play war, trade, and regional politics, and discuss current events in the General forum -- recent threads include discussions about alcohol prohibition, the conflict in Ukraine, and the idea of self-ownership. I frequented the site a lot when I was his age, and I really enjoyed it for what it was. I did a post about it a few years ago if you want to read more.
And hey, you could always gift him a MeFi account. Maybe wait a few days though and ask a mod to anonymize this question so he's less likely to find it...
posted by Rhaomi at 8:54 PM on September 6, 2014 [10 favorites]
Best answer: I definitely haven't been taking the "that's nice, dear" approach. I like to argue about politics, and until now we've been able to have interesting conversations.
I should probably have clarified that I come from a deeply political, activist family. My mother didn't "that's nice, dear" me because she was apathetic about my politics. She used it as a mechanism to disengage without becoming oppositional in phases in which it was impossible to hold conversations with me because I knew everything and old people understood nothing.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
I should probably have clarified that I come from a deeply political, activist family. My mother didn't "that's nice, dear" me because she was apathetic about my politics. She used it as a mechanism to disengage without becoming oppositional in phases in which it was impossible to hold conversations with me because I knew everything and old people understood nothing.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:15 AM on September 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
4chan is probably the single best place on the internet to out your childish, malformed adolescent thoughts and ideologies. Seriously. It's anonymous and ephemeral.
It's conceivable that he is participating in a lot of really racist, mysogynist discussions and that he is learning a lot of negative thinking from reading 4chan. This is probably a better place to do it than facebook or even reddit. 4chan is not the only place online where you can be exposed to really foul ideas and people but its one of the few where the consequences of adolescent postings are coming back to bite you in the ass in a few years are minimized.
posted by shownomercy at 8:02 AM on September 7, 2014
It's conceivable that he is participating in a lot of really racist, mysogynist discussions and that he is learning a lot of negative thinking from reading 4chan. This is probably a better place to do it than facebook or even reddit. 4chan is not the only place online where you can be exposed to really foul ideas and people but its one of the few where the consequences of adolescent postings are coming back to bite you in the ass in a few years are minimized.
posted by shownomercy at 8:02 AM on September 7, 2014
At least he's not on /b
posted by ambulocetus at 5:43 AM on September 13, 2014
posted by ambulocetus at 5:43 AM on September 13, 2014
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posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 12:26 PM on September 6, 2014 [3 favorites]