International dating- help me stay safe in worst case scenario

June 4, 2014 10:17 AM

I am currently involved in a sexual/dating/subculture where international meetings are normal. Most recently, men have met me in my city and then we have planned a trip later.... And I have had a fab time with these men- they have been great fun! I am okay with meeting men for dinner in Oslo, London or Stockholm..... I have no problem hopping on a plane and meeting a man, spending a few days with him and nipping back home... but I cannot figure out how to make sure that my flight home is paid for- if something doesn't work out. Is there any way to have your flights and hotel paid for, in a way that the host can not just cancel on you if you refuse to have sex with them?
posted by misspony to Human Relations (26 answers total)

Can you explain how these tickets are being purchased in the first place? Is he paying for the whole thing? If he buys non-refundable tickets in your name then, well, cancelling them is pretty difficult. But if he wants to make things hard on you and has the funds to do it, he can pay whatever fees and reschedule things from underneath you, and I'm not sure there is any way around that. Same with hotel. If you want to be safer, you should probably do all the booking and paying yourself in your name and your credit card (which you don't give to him), and have him send you cash to cover it.
posted by brainmouse at 10:21 AM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]

I suppose you could insist on having a non-refundable ticket, in your name, paid for in cash. That would prevent him from being able to change it on you later. It will also put you on every no-fly list from here to Nova Scotia.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:27 AM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]

Can you check with other members of the subculture (in a forum dedicated to the subject, perhaps) as to how they handle this? I can imagine there might be a generally accepted etiquette as to how this works.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:28 AM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]

You book the ticket, he pays you back in cash?
posted by tinymegalo at 10:28 AM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]

Best answer: This what travel agents are for. You could ask the men to work with your travel agent, just make sure the travel agent understands the situation fully.
posted by rada at 10:29 AM on June 4, 2014

Response by poster: ruthlessbunny- really? even in Europe? Why?
posted by misspony at 10:31 AM on June 4, 2014

Response by poster: brainmouse- the other party needs to pay for my tickets. I'm just not sure how to make sure that they pay and I am not in deep shit if I end up meeting a real weirdo.
posted by misspony at 10:34 AM on June 4, 2014

Best answer: Presuming that the deal is for the men to pay for a return ticket? Simplest way seems to be for you to book and pay for a return flight before you leave home, and he electronically transfers the $$ to you.

No transfer, no fly.
posted by Salamander at 10:34 AM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: I'm not quite sure how to phrase it.

They don't want to be bilked, but I can't also get stuck in Prague.

I have some degree of savings, so if I did meet a real weirdo I could easily just go home.

But I am looking for a way to organize travel so that the host was ultimately responsible and couldn't revoke.
posted by misspony at 10:38 AM on June 4, 2014

Response by poster: They don't like to transfer money before meeting....
posted by misspony at 10:39 AM on June 4, 2014

Best answer: If they're doing the actual purchasing, they have the power to screw you over if they want to. The best way to do it is to have them send you money and you purchase the ticket. Someone is going to have to trust someone in that scenario (either he has to trust that you will purchase a plane ticket if he sends you the money for it, or you have to trust that he will reimburse you once you send him your receipts). If he does the buying, he has control over your booking.
posted by brainmouse at 10:41 AM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Honestly, I'm not sure there is one. This seems like a little bit of an inherently high-risk high-reward subculture, somewhere between normal-dating and prostitution (note: please don't read this as me calling you a prostitute as some type of insult, that's not my intent). But there is obviously some quid pro quo expectations.

Perhaps your best bet would be to Skype with the man, and tell him your concerns after becoming comfortable. Something like "Oh yeah that sounds like a lot of fun! I'm sure we'd have a good time. You know, I would never ask you to give me money flat out, but can we deal with the payment for flights to and from before I arrive? That way we don't have to worry about it when I arrive, and I don't have to be anxious that I might get stuck across the ocean!!!" Have them buy you a non-refundable non-transferable ticket, is that not possible? It seems unlikely that this is not possible.

If he says no, then perhaps you need to just cancel a potentially fun time and write it off as the cost of risk-aversion.
posted by jjmoney at 10:44 AM on June 4, 2014 [9 favorites]

Best answer: A travel agent could probably handle this.

Also this is a legit concern so talking about it in advance might even help you filter out people who don't respect others'boundaries.
posted by spunweb at 10:52 AM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]

ruthlessbunny- really? even in Europe? Why?

Paying cash for airline tickets is HIGHLY suspect around the world. You may not end up on a no-fly list, but BOY will you be asked a lot of questions by customs and immigration.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:54 AM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]

Is there a mutually-trusted third party that could act as a sort of escrow agent? I'm thinking of a system where they must send a deposit in the amount of a one-way ticket from their location to yours (you could estimate and set up some standard groupings ($X from Western Europe, $Y from Scandinavia, etc) to this third party that gets returned to them automatically once you report to the third party that you are home.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:02 AM on June 4, 2014

Best answer: You should be buying the tickets yourself. This is like the classic "always have cab fare" advice your parents gave you when you were first starting to date, as a woman*, but on a larger scale.

If you can't afford to be taking these international trips to visit men, don't go.

Or, at the very least, arrange it so that you're the one booking the tickets, and you're always buying round trips. I'm not sure what types of financial instruments are available where you live, or what types of payments the travel booking sites you use accept, but there are a lot of different ways for someone to pay for your flight without actually booking your flight. Airline gift cards? Frequent flier miles? Some kind of bank transfer or prepaid cash card? Paypal? Access to a credit card with a low limit?

If you can't ask for the ability to book your own travel, I think this is not a healthy activity for you to be participating in.

*On the off chance you are male, ummmmm, take this classic parental advice to young women to heart: always have cab fare!
posted by Sara C. at 11:08 AM on June 4, 2014 [20 favorites]

Response by poster: @sara C.

I have "cab fare" I would just prefer not to use it for "cab fare"....
posted by misspony at 11:12 AM on June 4, 2014

Either accept that you're taking a risk, or buy the damn tickets yourself. This sounds high-risk, sketchy, and weird to me.

And if you can't ask to book your own travel and have the guys reimburse you - why ??? Because communicating like an adult isn't sexy? Just make your concerns known from the get go. If that is a problem in your subculture, then you should find a new subculture.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:24 AM on June 4, 2014 [16 favorites]

Best answer: Well, then problem solved. You won't be stuck in Prague, because you can fly yourself home if that happens.

If the real question is how to make sure that the men are paying for your airfare and you never have to use your own money, the obvious answer is to have them give you airline gift cards or frequent flier miles, which you then use to book the tickets.

If the issue is trust between you and the men (i.e. they're worried that their gift of an airline credit won't be used to book your travel to see them), maybe do it all via skype, or use some conference call software so that they can see your computer screen as you buy the tickets using their credit?
posted by Sara C. at 11:25 AM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]

I mean granted I assume that the mutual lie that y'all tell each other is that he's paying your way as a gentleman, and buying you the ticket to come visit and lunch and go for drinks and see the sights, and have mutual enjoyment of company; but if he doesn't want to pay up front (or give you the money as explained multiple ways above) then that's clearly a mutual farce, and you know it, and no, there's not a way to trick the game into being something else.
posted by celtalitha at 11:57 AM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: @celtalithia and ablazingsaddle- and others

I have quite happily traveled with men I have met for dinner and connected with previously- and had relationships with, and know I have chemistry with etc.

And I have had a blast- weeks in a penthouse on the Spanish med, London, flying across Europe in a mini plane through the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden, Drunk amazing beer in Brussels, seen Lithuania, enjoyed myself at a 5 star resort in Bulgaria, also seen Bucharest and the black sea.... I have had an amazing time and so have they.

So, no, I don't get a guy to buy me a round trip ticket on the assumption I'll sleep with them but without me actually sleeping with them. I've been crazy about these guys and had a fantastic time, and I would say vice versa.

The good ones aren't jerks and there are good ones out there- I am just covering my bases to cover for the wackos that do exist.

Because I have already had an amazing time ALREADY, I am completely open to meeting guys in different countries and travel a lot for business- I just want to know my options and how to stay safe.

Which was my question-

and I would appreciate the question be answered and people refrain from lifestyle judgement.
posted by misspony at 12:08 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]

Best answer: Please understand that this comment comes from actual concern and not because I would ever in a million years give a fuck what some stranger on the internets wants to do with their private life in any way at all as long as it does not directly inconvenience me.

I suggest you find a forum where professional escorts discuss business matters because if you are going to travel internationally to sleep with strangers for fun then you should take pointers and safety advice from people who do this for a living, and not from a bunch of occasionally overjudgey overthinkers on mefi.

If you are unable to find a useful forum like that (which tbh i can't help you with, although i know they exist) then I would suggest asking other female members of this subculture how they manage this issue.
posted by elizardbits at 12:11 PM on June 4, 2014 [53 favorites]

Best answer: Also some very general advice, sorry if this is really obvious stuff:

- make sure you have a copy of the guy's passport page/govt ID and contact information on file with a trusted friend who can act as a dead man's switch and contact authorities if you don't check in at preset times

- i would check the local gov't guidelines for any unusual/conflict-prone locations to see if there are security concerns wrt trafficking/kidnapping

- never be afraid to turn around and walk away immediately if someone feels sketchy, fuck worrying about hurting someone's feelings or getting a reputation as a "hysterical bitch" in this subculture's community, nothing is more important than your own safety, NOTHING
posted by elizardbits at 12:20 PM on June 4, 2014 [9 favorites]

Mod note: Heya, asker, this really does need to not be a chat sort of situation. If you need to clarify something specific about the question, a couple comments in the thread to do that are okay, but please don't get into ongoing exchanges with folks.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:21 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]

I'm not judging your lifestyle, I'm simply saying that the expectation that the other person will extend their good will to pay upfront if he doesn't want to isn't realistic. If a contractor came on here saying "how to I get my client to pay me in full up front, so I can be sure I don't get screwed, he only wants to pay me half and I'm afraid if he doesn't like my work he might not pay the rest" my answer would be exactly the same: afaik, without a third-party guarantor of some sort, you can't.

If you are concerned with safety that's a different and totally valid issue that elizardbits touched on above. But the original question framed "safety" as "unable to get home" and the actual answer is "make sure you can pay your own way home."
posted by celtalitha at 12:24 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]

Best answer: I think you're trying to recreate the wheel here. I agree with elizardbits, there is already a group of people who do this for a living, find out how they are doing it safely and do the same thing. It's not really relevant that they are doing it for money and you're doing it for enjoyment or whatever.
posted by crankylex at 12:28 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]