Should I buy her a ring?
October 27, 2005 4:12 PM Subscribe
The girl I love is leaving our work team, and before she goes I want to buy her an engagement ring. I think she may be the one.
The trouble is that (a) I don't know what kind of rings she likes, (b) I don't know what size ring she wears, (c) I don't think she'll say 'yes', and (d) I love her more than she loves me. Quite possibly my love for her is unrequited.
We're both professionals in our 30s, we've had a couple dates, and she knows I care about her. She doesn't know how much though. What are your thoughts and suggestions?
I don't think buying an engagement ring for someone you barely know is a wise financial decision. You'll never be able to resale it for near as much as you bought it for.
But asking her to marry you? Why the hell not. Give it a shot. My father asked my mother to marry him several times before she said yes. And now it's been almost 25 years.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:21 PM on October 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
But asking her to marry you? Why the hell not. Give it a shot. My father asked my mother to marry him several times before she said yes. And now it's been almost 25 years.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:21 PM on October 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
In general, I'd advise against proposing to someone you've only had a few dates with.
posted by footnote at 4:21 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by footnote at 4:21 PM on October 27, 2005
Speaking as a happily engaged female, I would have been completely weirded out had my fiance popped a ring on me after only a couple dates. How is it possible that you or she would be willing to commit to a lifetime together when you barely know each other romantically? I am by no means commitment-phobic, but getting engaged after a couple dates is just really out of the ordinary and would drive me away, personally.
posted by chiababe at 4:25 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by chiababe at 4:25 PM on October 27, 2005
You've had a couple dates? You should absolutely not be buying an engagement ring at this stage. Holy cow.
posted by ook at 4:26 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by ook at 4:26 PM on October 27, 2005
Date her more. A premature ring will scare her off, and if it is requited, you can happily court her for a while with no fear of losing her. On the other hand, if it is unrequited, as TPS notes, you will save a buttload of money.
posted by Rumple at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by Rumple at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2005
Tell her have strong and passionate feelings for her, absolutely.
Buy her an engagement ring? No way.
Personally, I think proposing marriage ought to follow the rule for cross-examination on the witness stand: don't ask the question unless you already know the answer.
posted by ottereroticist at 4:31 PM on October 27, 2005
Buy her an engagement ring? No way.
Personally, I think proposing marriage ought to follow the rule for cross-examination on the witness stand: don't ask the question unless you already know the answer.
posted by ottereroticist at 4:31 PM on October 27, 2005
I've made a few broad, risky romantic gestures. Some have been successful. Some haven't. I don't regret any of them, though. Every single time, it scared the hell out of me and I was proud of myself afterward. Rejection is good for you from time to time; and eventually I ended up with the right girl, so it all worked out. ("Other fish in the sea" and such.)
In this day and age, what you're proposing (pardon the pun) would probably scare a girl -- even those who secretly wish for exactly that. Under the right circumstances, handled with care, that first reaction won't be her final reaction. And if it is, so be it. I say, take the plunge. The worst case, you end up with a broken heart and an empty wallet for a few weeks. It's better than spending your life regretting that you didn't try. And sometimes there's no other way to learn important lessons about yourself than running full-speed into walls.
As for the ring: Unless you've been told otherwise, always go classic. I'd recommend tempering your temptation to break the bank with caution...but hey, it's your wallet. You might be interested in this question I asked on Google. The folks at the store can ballpark her size from an estimate of height and weight. If it's not perfect, it can always be fixed.
Good luck. And I love your tag!
posted by cribcage at 4:32 PM on October 27, 2005
In this day and age, what you're proposing (pardon the pun) would probably scare a girl -- even those who secretly wish for exactly that. Under the right circumstances, handled with care, that first reaction won't be her final reaction. And if it is, so be it. I say, take the plunge. The worst case, you end up with a broken heart and an empty wallet for a few weeks. It's better than spending your life regretting that you didn't try. And sometimes there's no other way to learn important lessons about yourself than running full-speed into walls.
As for the ring: Unless you've been told otherwise, always go classic. I'd recommend tempering your temptation to break the bank with caution...but hey, it's your wallet. You might be interested in this question I asked on Google. The folks at the store can ballpark her size from an estimate of height and weight. If it's not perfect, it can always be fixed.
Good luck. And I love your tag!
posted by cribcage at 4:32 PM on October 27, 2005
Settle down Cochese. If she's going across town for a new job, you could always, I don't know, call her and email her and take her to dinner and a show. I don't get the big urgency with the engagement ring. This is doubleplusungood if it's a going away present that's going to be given to her in front of other coworkers. You will skeeve out her and all of your coworkers. And depending on your presentation of it, you could be setting yourself up for a sexual harassment suit.
posted by pieoverdone at 4:33 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by pieoverdone at 4:33 PM on October 27, 2005
Ok, you want to communicate to her the full extent and depth of your feelings. An engagement ring would do the trick. But it'd also likely scare her off for good. Be realistic. Can you imagine her agreeing to marry you after a couple of date? Such extraordinary risky gestures fail far more often than they succeed--that's why they're extraordinary risky gestures. A better solution: write her a letter. If you can't verbally let her know the extent of your feelings, you may be able to do it on paper where you'll be far less nervous. And feel free to toss in some poetry or song lyrics or quoatations if you can't find your own words. The whole chicks-love-poetry thing is a cliche because it's so often true.
posted by nixerman at 4:39 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by nixerman at 4:39 PM on October 27, 2005
I'm a big fan of "don't shit where you eat." That is, I wouldn't have dated her in the first place. I certainly wouldn't ask her to marry me.
But asking a co-worker who you have dated only a few times and whom you know little enough about that you don't know her ring size or taste in jewelry? I don't think it's out of line to suggest that you may need to seek out therapy, perhaps even from a medical professional.
posted by solid-one-love at 4:49 PM on October 27, 2005
But asking a co-worker who you have dated only a few times and whom you know little enough about that you don't know her ring size or taste in jewelry? I don't think it's out of line to suggest that you may need to seek out therapy, perhaps even from a medical professional.
posted by solid-one-love at 4:49 PM on October 27, 2005
Not to derail, but folks are getting way too hung up on, "we've had a couple of dates." He begins by saying the girl's leaving a work team. Have y'all ever worked on a small team project for an extended period of time? You (can) get to know people pretty well, even if you don't spend time with them outside of work. There's plenty of reason to give him the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming he's some nutjob buying a diamond for some random stranger.
posted by cribcage at 5:03 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by cribcage at 5:03 PM on October 27, 2005
Forget the ring. Invite her to your house and show her anal porn while you grill dinner.
Seriously though. Are we really supposed to give suggestions on the size of her fingers or the rings she likes? Your mind seems pretty made up. Good luck. If you feel now is the time then do it.
posted by fire&wings at 6:29 PM on October 27, 2005
Seriously though. Are we really supposed to give suggestions on the size of her fingers or the rings she likes? Your mind seems pretty made up. Good luck. If you feel now is the time then do it.
posted by fire&wings at 6:29 PM on October 27, 2005
It seems like a foolish idea, but what the hell man,
it's your life! Damn the money!
Fortune favors the bold ~ Virgil
posted by AllesKlar at 6:31 PM on October 27, 2005
it's your life! Damn the money!
Fortune favors the bold ~ Virgil
posted by AllesKlar at 6:31 PM on October 27, 2005
Actually, Cribcage, I've worked on a couple of small team projects for an extended period of time, gotten very close with a few coworkers (and subsequently dated one of them for three years once we were no longer working together), and I still think most everyone's reaction is pretty spot-on. That is, it doesn't matter how well you might get to know someone in a close working environment if you're not actually in a defined relationship with them. I'd be willing to bet no matter how long Anon has worked with this woman -- no matter how charming/attractive/smart he finds her, no matter the ups & downs of the project they've weathered together -- he doesn't know her well enough TO PROPOSE MARRIAGE. The closeness I've had in getting to know work partners is no substitute for actually being in a one-on-one commited relationship.
Which is why, Anon, I think you need to slow waaay down to examine why you feel the urgency to do something as dramatic as propose. What fear is driving this? And not just the abstract fear of "losing" her -- come on, you can get her phone number and ask her out on another date (or if she's moving, you can stay in touch and develop a long-distance relationship). She's not dying or going off to war or marrying someone else, is she?
As I said, I've certainly had close friendships (with members of the opposite sex) at work, two of which were defined by a deep emotional closeness (and one of which led to a longterm relationship), and even so it sets off alarm bells that you think you want to marry someone under these circumstances -- especially when you don't even know how she feels about you. It sounds like instead of going from point B to point C on the relationship chart, you're trying to go to point Q or something. Sure, things like this work out in romantic comedies and there are endless greeting card cliches about the glory of risk-taking and everyone knows someone's grandparents who got married the week they met during WWII. But if one of the guys I was close to at work sprung an engagement ring on me after "a couple of dates," I can't imagine I would have found it charming, romantic, or intriguing; I would have quite possibly found it unhinged.
In other words, the only long-term planning I think you should be doing right now is considering whether or not there might be a holiday party you'd like to invite her to in December. And even then, only after you've gone on a few more dates. Honestly, worrying about her ring size is not a relevant question for you right now.
posted by scody at 6:39 PM on October 27, 2005
Which is why, Anon, I think you need to slow waaay down to examine why you feel the urgency to do something as dramatic as propose. What fear is driving this? And not just the abstract fear of "losing" her -- come on, you can get her phone number and ask her out on another date (or if she's moving, you can stay in touch and develop a long-distance relationship). She's not dying or going off to war or marrying someone else, is she?
As I said, I've certainly had close friendships (with members of the opposite sex) at work, two of which were defined by a deep emotional closeness (and one of which led to a longterm relationship), and even so it sets off alarm bells that you think you want to marry someone under these circumstances -- especially when you don't even know how she feels about you. It sounds like instead of going from point B to point C on the relationship chart, you're trying to go to point Q or something. Sure, things like this work out in romantic comedies and there are endless greeting card cliches about the glory of risk-taking and everyone knows someone's grandparents who got married the week they met during WWII. But if one of the guys I was close to at work sprung an engagement ring on me after "a couple of dates," I can't imagine I would have found it charming, romantic, or intriguing; I would have quite possibly found it unhinged.
In other words, the only long-term planning I think you should be doing right now is considering whether or not there might be a holiday party you'd like to invite her to in December. And even then, only after you've gone on a few more dates. Honestly, worrying about her ring size is not a relevant question for you right now.
posted by scody at 6:39 PM on October 27, 2005
definitely an "if you don't know the answer, don't ask the question" situation. speaking from experience, turning down a proposal is pretty awful for both parties.
posted by judith at 6:50 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by judith at 6:50 PM on October 27, 2005
No, don't do it. Just don't.
It's not that tough to keep in contact with folks who have left your daily sphere of contact, so see if she'd like to go and get drunk to celebrate her new work opportunities, say "hey, it's been awesome working with you, wanna kick it next week?" and keep shit on a not-creepy track.
Seriously, what the christ.
posted by cmonkey at 6:52 PM on October 27, 2005
It's not that tough to keep in contact with folks who have left your daily sphere of contact, so see if she'd like to go and get drunk to celebrate her new work opportunities, say "hey, it's been awesome working with you, wanna kick it next week?" and keep shit on a not-creepy track.
Seriously, what the christ.
posted by cmonkey at 6:52 PM on October 27, 2005
If you must propose, make sure the ring is returnable. They usually aren't, and paying for it will break your heart and your bank.
Proposing to someone requires that you know them. You may not really know her well enough for marriage. You could buy a truly lovely necklace, or diamond earrings, or some other significant jewelry item that is laden with significance, but not quite so dramatic, and use it to declare your passion for her, i.e., "I'm really crazy about you, and I'd like to pursue a serious relationship. "
Good luck, and I really want to know how this works out.
posted by theora55 at 6:54 PM on October 27, 2005
Proposing to someone requires that you know them. You may not really know her well enough for marriage. You could buy a truly lovely necklace, or diamond earrings, or some other significant jewelry item that is laden with significance, but not quite so dramatic, and use it to declare your passion for her, i.e., "I'm really crazy about you, and I'd like to pursue a serious relationship. "
Good luck, and I really want to know how this works out.
posted by theora55 at 6:54 PM on October 27, 2005
I agree with Judith. Don't ask unless you're sure, or better yet, don't ask until you know what she'd like, which you could find out by spending more time with her. Sounds like you need to do that first and it sounds like you want to.
Here's what I think's happening: she's leaving and you're trying an extreme act because you're afraid you'll lose her.
Take the long view, not the short. Build a solid relationship based on trust and communication not a desperate act.
posted by plinth at 6:56 PM on October 27, 2005
Here's what I think's happening: she's leaving and you're trying an extreme act because you're afraid you'll lose her.
Take the long view, not the short. Build a solid relationship based on trust and communication not a desperate act.
posted by plinth at 6:56 PM on October 27, 2005
Don't worry about the proper size of the engagement ring. Any decent jeweler that you buy from is going to resize it for free.
As for the style.. does she wear rings now? Any certain stone sizes? Maybe you should check out an online catalog and familiarize yourself with the shapes of stones and then take sneaky looks at what she already wears frequently. If there is a predominate style, you may have a hint. Oh yeah, big is always good.
posted by Apoch at 7:21 PM on October 27, 2005
As for the style.. does she wear rings now? Any certain stone sizes? Maybe you should check out an online catalog and familiarize yourself with the shapes of stones and then take sneaky looks at what she already wears frequently. If there is a predominate style, you may have a hint. Oh yeah, big is always good.
posted by Apoch at 7:21 PM on October 27, 2005
Buying someone an engagement ring who you have only dated a few times and are not in a relationship with is borderline sociopathic.
posted by xmutex at 7:40 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by xmutex at 7:40 PM on October 27, 2005
Ring size, taste in jewelry? Is that what marriage is all about? I could be deeply in love with a woman, she with me, and not know "her taste in jewelry." I guess haven't imbibed enough De Beers koolaid.
posted by AllesKlar at 7:53 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by AllesKlar at 7:53 PM on October 27, 2005
(o-:).oO(Mention that this is a Real Bad Idea, or answer this guy's question legitly? Fuckit... this is MeFi, afterall.)
I haven't proposed to anybody, so this first part is conjecture mostly. I've always known the ringsizes of those for whom I've bought rings.
I know that most jewelers are going to be able to resize a ring, unless you buy it from K-Mart or something. Go to a decent, homegrown (not that place in the mall) jeweler and you can easily get the thing resized afterward if it doesn't fit. As mentioned above, they can probably even give you a good estimate of her ring size based on other dimensions.
As for what kind of ring to buy a person whose tastes in jewelry you don't fully comprehend? This I have done.
The trick is to watch the jewelry she wears already. You want to buy her something incorporating those particular geological oddities. If you can't identify the stones, just remember the colors. You can match them up again when you go to the jeweler.
The next thing to watch is the metals she wears, and how they're finished. You don't need to know the name of it, you just need to know what it looks like. Is it dull, or is it sparkly? Is it silver or is it gold? Is the surface textured, or is it uniform? Match that up at the jeweler, too.
Also note whether or not she likes gaudy, crowded stone arrangements, or whether she likes well-cut single stones in nice settings.
If she wears no jewelry, you need to go as absolutely simple as humanly possible. A slinder gold ring with a fleck of a diamond in it.
Now, you're popping the question out of nowhere. This means that you want to minimize the shock value of the jewelry itself. Keep it on the conservative side of her tastes, and keep it within your budget and her economic standing.
Unless both of you are filthy rich, you DO NOT want to give her a 38 carat diamond on a 3-oz toroid of platinum. She will think you are trying to buy her.
But, temper all of the above with the following thought: if you find something that absolutely screams That's her!, buy it.
posted by Netzapper at 7:55 PM on October 27, 2005
I haven't proposed to anybody, so this first part is conjecture mostly. I've always known the ringsizes of those for whom I've bought rings.
I know that most jewelers are going to be able to resize a ring, unless you buy it from K-Mart or something. Go to a decent, homegrown (not that place in the mall) jeweler and you can easily get the thing resized afterward if it doesn't fit. As mentioned above, they can probably even give you a good estimate of her ring size based on other dimensions.
As for what kind of ring to buy a person whose tastes in jewelry you don't fully comprehend? This I have done.
The trick is to watch the jewelry she wears already. You want to buy her something incorporating those particular geological oddities. If you can't identify the stones, just remember the colors. You can match them up again when you go to the jeweler.
The next thing to watch is the metals she wears, and how they're finished. You don't need to know the name of it, you just need to know what it looks like. Is it dull, or is it sparkly? Is it silver or is it gold? Is the surface textured, or is it uniform? Match that up at the jeweler, too.
Also note whether or not she likes gaudy, crowded stone arrangements, or whether she likes well-cut single stones in nice settings.
If she wears no jewelry, you need to go as absolutely simple as humanly possible. A slinder gold ring with a fleck of a diamond in it.
Now, you're popping the question out of nowhere. This means that you want to minimize the shock value of the jewelry itself. Keep it on the conservative side of her tastes, and keep it within your budget and her economic standing.
Unless both of you are filthy rich, you DO NOT want to give her a 38 carat diamond on a 3-oz toroid of platinum. She will think you are trying to buy her.
But, temper all of the above with the following thought: if you find something that absolutely screams That's her!, buy it.
posted by Netzapper at 7:55 PM on October 27, 2005
Best advice I can think of is to ask her out on a date before you decide what to do. On this date, you should have the requisite fun to lower both of your inhibitions to whatever stresses you both might be under. Don't get her drunk, but relax, let some steam off in whatever way is appropriate for the two of you.
After you're both relaxed, take a casual stroll through an area with multiple or at least one jewelry store. If you have any trouble getting her into a jewelry store, the odds are that she's in the no category. There exists a possibility that she does not like jewelry, so if this is the response you get, take her shopping elsewhere where a suitable replacement engagement gift could be purchased.
This may not be possible, of course. I once knew a couple who exchanged stained glass windows for to mark their engagement. I've known others who purchased a house instead of exchanging rings. Clearly, you can't just charge into the house hunting market without substantial effort, but you can look at listings in the paper over a cup of coffee or while cuddled in bed.
You can also try less obvious approaches, like by reading the classifieds together to get an idea of what kind of apartments or houses she likes. If you can't breach the subject with her, I'd take it as a significant suggestion.
If you buy a ring and she says no, understand that there is a significant, jeweler enforced stigma to used rings. Any ring you buy is only worth the metal it is made of on the used market unless you buy a a brand name ring. And the diamond will only fetch roughly one quarter of it's purchase price and maybe as little as an eight of its insured value. You can sell the stone and the metal separately. eBay has a decent diamond market on it, but if you have any intention of selling a diamond person to person on eBay, you must buy a certified stone, by a reputable certification company. Essentially, you just want a GIA certification with a laser inscription, but there are other companies that do certifications that should not significantly impact your resale value.
Either way, good luck.
posted by sequential at 7:58 PM on October 27, 2005
After you're both relaxed, take a casual stroll through an area with multiple or at least one jewelry store. If you have any trouble getting her into a jewelry store, the odds are that she's in the no category. There exists a possibility that she does not like jewelry, so if this is the response you get, take her shopping elsewhere where a suitable replacement engagement gift could be purchased.
This may not be possible, of course. I once knew a couple who exchanged stained glass windows for to mark their engagement. I've known others who purchased a house instead of exchanging rings. Clearly, you can't just charge into the house hunting market without substantial effort, but you can look at listings in the paper over a cup of coffee or while cuddled in bed.
You can also try less obvious approaches, like by reading the classifieds together to get an idea of what kind of apartments or houses she likes. If you can't breach the subject with her, I'd take it as a significant suggestion.
If you buy a ring and she says no, understand that there is a significant, jeweler enforced stigma to used rings. Any ring you buy is only worth the metal it is made of on the used market unless you buy a a brand name ring. And the diamond will only fetch roughly one quarter of it's purchase price and maybe as little as an eight of its insured value. You can sell the stone and the metal separately. eBay has a decent diamond market on it, but if you have any intention of selling a diamond person to person on eBay, you must buy a certified stone, by a reputable certification company. Essentially, you just want a GIA certification with a laser inscription, but there are other companies that do certifications that should not significantly impact your resale value.
Either way, good luck.
posted by sequential at 7:58 PM on October 27, 2005
She knows that you care about her but you're pretty sure your passions are unrequited and she'll say no? If you ever want her to talk to you again, I wouldn't recommend proposing marriage. It's a bit drastic as sweeping gestures go. From the way you describe the situtation, you're just going to come off as creepy.
posted by desuetude at 8:27 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by desuetude at 8:27 PM on October 27, 2005
As long as you are FULLY PREPARED to hear a polite (and possibly confused) "No," then don't do it. But if you are sure that you can handle being rejected in this instance, then GO FOR IT. Odds are against you -- but if it works, you will know incredible joy.
Full disclosure: proposed to my wife after knowing her for two weeks, got married two weeks later, preparing to celebrate our 15th anniversary next month.
posted by davidmsc at 8:37 PM on October 27, 2005
Full disclosure: proposed to my wife after knowing her for two weeks, got married two weeks later, preparing to celebrate our 15th anniversary next month.
posted by davidmsc at 8:37 PM on October 27, 2005
You're trying to beat the sense of doom that drips out of your question (I don't think she'll say 'yes'.. I love her more than she loves me... Quite possibly my love for her is unrequited...) by coming up with this over the top, really outlandish scheme. You sound pretty sure she's on the fence about even entering into a relationship with you, so your answer is to out of nowhere back her against the wall and tell her to decide whether she wants to spend the rest of her life with you? Maybe you can do it in some kind of public going-away event with your whole work group, make it really super uncomfortable for her. Absolute bottom line: if you carry through this move it will doom your chances with this girl. What is it you really want?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? This is the question you need to be asking yourself. Because in addressing that question you will find your chance of actually finding happiness in love. It is obvious that you have some serious problems with yourself and if this is the kind of thing you come up with to solve them then you need to really work that out. Others have given much solid advice on proceeding in a sane and rational manner in exploring the essential question that should be answered prior to any marriage proposal: is she really interested in a third date? Follow their advice.
posted by nanojath at 8:46 PM on October 27, 2005
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? This is the question you need to be asking yourself. Because in addressing that question you will find your chance of actually finding happiness in love. It is obvious that you have some serious problems with yourself and if this is the kind of thing you come up with to solve them then you need to really work that out. Others have given much solid advice on proceeding in a sane and rational manner in exploring the essential question that should be answered prior to any marriage proposal: is she really interested in a third date? Follow their advice.
posted by nanojath at 8:46 PM on October 27, 2005
But seriously, davidmsc, had you been on, like, two dates with your wife and did you feel her love for your was "quite possibly... unrequited"? Or were you in a sorta head over heels, giddy up all night talking kind of true romance thing?
I think this dude figures to al least go out in a blaze of glory. I dunno: I guess you can't escape personal experience: my wife was on the fence about me a long time, to the extent that I actually dated another woman during the course of our (like, two freakin' year) courtship - I mean two years prior to just getting an actual date. I avoided the outrageous gesture, I gave her the space to be herself and make her own decisions, I took responsibility for my own life and happiness. She came around.
posted by nanojath at 8:53 PM on October 27, 2005
I think this dude figures to al least go out in a blaze of glory. I dunno: I guess you can't escape personal experience: my wife was on the fence about me a long time, to the extent that I actually dated another woman during the course of our (like, two freakin' year) courtship - I mean two years prior to just getting an actual date. I avoided the outrageous gesture, I gave her the space to be herself and make her own decisions, I took responsibility for my own life and happiness. She came around.
posted by nanojath at 8:53 PM on October 27, 2005
Dude, if you want to jump off the deep end for this girl then do just that; just don't propose to her. Tell her you love her, that'll be enough. If she hasn't heard you say that yet, trust me, after a few dates it totally qualifies for jumping off the deep end. Hopefully that'll satisfy your feeling of a need to do something crazy.
posted by pwb503 at 8:57 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by pwb503 at 8:57 PM on October 27, 2005
She's leaving the work team... does that mean she's leaving the job location as well? Normally I'd say go for it, but the consequences of word spreading around the office about your brash proposal might have negative consequences.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:05 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:05 PM on October 27, 2005
I don't think the fact that he doesn't know her ring size is the problem... I think the problem is that it sounds like they've barely talked at all. Anon "thinks" she'll say no, and that "quite possibly" it's unrequited, and "she doesn't know" the extent of his feelings... if your relationship isn't at the stage where you know these things, clearly, and have talked about them, then it's way way way too early to be talking about engagement rings.
Seriously. This isn't romantic. It's creepy.
posted by ook at 9:08 PM on October 27, 2005
Seriously. This isn't romantic. It's creepy.
posted by ook at 9:08 PM on October 27, 2005
i wish i could be entirely polite, but i think bluntness in this case is not bad -- indeed, i believe it would strike true.
you are not in a relationship with this person. that is not to say that you can't be; merely that you aren't. women don't marry men with whom they are not in a relationship.
i feel this is confirmed in your initial concern -- she is leaving your work group. in the ideal situation, such an event wouldn't matter. as the pressing matter is that she is leaving your work group, i must confess that i think what you'll miss is not your opportunity to be with her, but rather the idea -- or, perhaps, the hope -- of being with her.
the feelings you have right now are related more with depression and self-destruction than with love. without invoking the harshest sense of the word, i would like to say that your feelings are selfish. they represent an escape from your present reality, a chance for a far richer life, and -- at present -- were your wishes granted, i believe that the conclusion would be a letdown.
spontaneity, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. i simply don't believe that spontaneity represents the heart of the present issue.
i do not mean to dwell merely on what is negative; and were we to end things on this note, what i say would truly be pointless. so i shall offer a way to resolve things that is, if not ultimately satisfactory, then perhaps ultimately positive.
get her phone number, if you haven't already. ask her out to dinner. if she is truly not interested, then nothing will come of this, and take heart in that this was meant to be -- for life truly is too short to spend on a woman or a man who will not reciprocate. if she is interested, then things will progress at their own pace.
in the end, should you get that far, the ring will be a small thing. in truth, by that time, you would be as one; your feelings for each other, equal and given equally, will be the large thing.
good luck, and may you find not what you want, but what will be.
posted by moz at 9:14 PM on October 27, 2005
you are not in a relationship with this person. that is not to say that you can't be; merely that you aren't. women don't marry men with whom they are not in a relationship.
i feel this is confirmed in your initial concern -- she is leaving your work group. in the ideal situation, such an event wouldn't matter. as the pressing matter is that she is leaving your work group, i must confess that i think what you'll miss is not your opportunity to be with her, but rather the idea -- or, perhaps, the hope -- of being with her.
the feelings you have right now are related more with depression and self-destruction than with love. without invoking the harshest sense of the word, i would like to say that your feelings are selfish. they represent an escape from your present reality, a chance for a far richer life, and -- at present -- were your wishes granted, i believe that the conclusion would be a letdown.
spontaneity, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. i simply don't believe that spontaneity represents the heart of the present issue.
i do not mean to dwell merely on what is negative; and were we to end things on this note, what i say would truly be pointless. so i shall offer a way to resolve things that is, if not ultimately satisfactory, then perhaps ultimately positive.
get her phone number, if you haven't already. ask her out to dinner. if she is truly not interested, then nothing will come of this, and take heart in that this was meant to be -- for life truly is too short to spend on a woman or a man who will not reciprocate. if she is interested, then things will progress at their own pace.
in the end, should you get that far, the ring will be a small thing. in truth, by that time, you would be as one; your feelings for each other, equal and given equally, will be the large thing.
good luck, and may you find not what you want, but what will be.
posted by moz at 9:14 PM on October 27, 2005
moz nails it: you are not in a relationship with this person. that is not to say that you can't be; merely that you aren't. women don't marry men with whom they are not in a relationship.
posted by scody at 10:12 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by scody at 10:12 PM on October 27, 2005
I'm female, and if I guy I worked with (but wasn't dating) proposed to me, I'd freak right out. Tell her about your feelings, see about dating, but please don't propose or you'll risk losing contact with her forever.
Also, check out this essay by Ann Landers, which might give you a clearer view of your feelings.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck. If you need to talk further, my email address is in my profile.
posted by Serena at 10:16 PM on October 27, 2005
Also, check out this essay by Ann Landers, which might give you a clearer view of your feelings.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck. If you need to talk further, my email address is in my profile.
posted by Serena at 10:16 PM on October 27, 2005
My thoughts are that even though pop culture is filled with all of these spur of the moment proposals and whilrwind marriages, in a general sense it's a bad idea to propose if you suspect that your feelings are unrequited. A proposal is not flirting, and it's not the way to show you're serious, it's the way to tell someone you think they are the one and that you want to spend the rest of your life with them and you have reason to believe they feel the same. Add me to the list of women who would not be happy with this approach. Unless you are from a culture where marriage is really the beginning of a relationship and not a pinnacle of commitment for an existing relationship, do not do this, exactly like moz said.
Since you asked for thoughts, my other thought is that this sounds like a set-up. If you seriously don't think she'd say yes, then the practical thing to do is not buy a ring. If you're thinking of buying a ring anyhow, my only thought is that you want to make A Grand Gesture that is in some nutty way more important than the feelings of the woman you are proposing to, or possibly you just want to feel really really bad when your suspicions are confirmed. I would suggest making some sort of "I'm sorry you're leaving I would really like to get to know you better, even if it's not on work time..." gesture which shoudl solve the immediate problem of this woman leaving but not give a message of desparation and/or lack of consideration.
posted by jessamyn at 10:49 PM on October 27, 2005
Since you asked for thoughts, my other thought is that this sounds like a set-up. If you seriously don't think she'd say yes, then the practical thing to do is not buy a ring. If you're thinking of buying a ring anyhow, my only thought is that you want to make A Grand Gesture that is in some nutty way more important than the feelings of the woman you are proposing to, or possibly you just want to feel really really bad when your suspicions are confirmed. I would suggest making some sort of "I'm sorry you're leaving I would really like to get to know you better, even if it's not on work time..." gesture which shoudl solve the immediate problem of this woman leaving but not give a message of desparation and/or lack of consideration.
posted by jessamyn at 10:49 PM on October 27, 2005
buy her an ipod and put a few dozen love songs on it. Safer, cheaper than a ring. and hey, its an ipod.
posted by th3ph17 at 11:02 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by th3ph17 at 11:02 PM on October 27, 2005
Don't try to marry a girl you've only been out with a couple of times, weirdo.
posted by angry modem at 11:26 PM on October 27, 2005
posted by angry modem at 11:26 PM on October 27, 2005
buy her an ipod and put a few dozen love songs on it.
Cheaper than a ring, I'll grant you... but still potentially creepy. These suggestions for alternate dramatic gestures (Ride up on a white horse and hand her a dozen roses! Serenade her with her favorite song from her childhood! Show up on her doorstep with a homemade pie!) miss the point -- not only are they unnecessary, they are highly unlikely to be helpful (i.e., be seen as inappropriate rather than attractive.). Again, Anon is not actually in a meaningful relationship with this woman; he does not know her well enough to be in love with her.
imo, the only potentially successful (and healthy) tactic for Anon at this stage is to simply ask her out on another date. Period. No elaborate Hollywood movie set-ups, no inappropriate gifts, no pronouncements of love. If it turns out she is the type of woman who will go for spontaneous, whimsical, romantic gestures, that will be found out soon enough in the course of having a real relationship with her.
posted by scody at 11:50 PM on October 27, 2005
Cheaper than a ring, I'll grant you... but still potentially creepy. These suggestions for alternate dramatic gestures (Ride up on a white horse and hand her a dozen roses! Serenade her with her favorite song from her childhood! Show up on her doorstep with a homemade pie!) miss the point -- not only are they unnecessary, they are highly unlikely to be helpful (i.e., be seen as inappropriate rather than attractive.). Again, Anon is not actually in a meaningful relationship with this woman; he does not know her well enough to be in love with her.
imo, the only potentially successful (and healthy) tactic for Anon at this stage is to simply ask her out on another date. Period. No elaborate Hollywood movie set-ups, no inappropriate gifts, no pronouncements of love. If it turns out she is the type of woman who will go for spontaneous, whimsical, romantic gestures, that will be found out soon enough in the course of having a real relationship with her.
posted by scody at 11:50 PM on October 27, 2005
For the ring, check out Blue Nile, which does offer a 30 day return policy. You would have to pay for a local jeweler to resize it if necessary, I guess. I would go with a platinum (unless she has a prference for gold jewelry) solitaire setting, round cut diamond, which is a nice, classic ring most people would like.
Sure, it is not a traditional way to go about this, but if you really want to do this who are we to tell you not to?
posted by babar at 11:55 PM on October 27, 2005
Dude, I say go for it. Right now, you're a sub rosa lunatic— someone who's willing to marry a woman who's gone on a couple of dates with you? Definitely misreading social customs to the point of near autism. By proposing, you'll let her know that you're crazy and she'll never risk ending up with you.
Or you could kick back for a while, read some Byron, and get over this. Ask her on a another couple of dates. Maybe even drop a joke about marrying her. I'm torn somewhat because I could just be ascribing to an uncharitable reading of an awkward crush, or you might legitimately be insane. If the former, try to date her more and, you know, develop a relationship. If the latter, propose now and let her know you're mental.
posted by klangklangston at 2:13 AM on October 28, 2005
Or you could kick back for a while, read some Byron, and get over this. Ask her on a another couple of dates. Maybe even drop a joke about marrying her. I'm torn somewhat because I could just be ascribing to an uncharitable reading of an awkward crush, or you might legitimately be insane. If the former, try to date her more and, you know, develop a relationship. If the latter, propose now and let her know you're mental.
posted by klangklangston at 2:13 AM on October 28, 2005
My parents knew each other for 6 weeks and had about 4 dates. They have been married for 42 years! On the other hand I knew my husband for about 10 years and we lived together before we married.
Better to regret the things you have done than those you haven't?
posted by nimsey lou at 3:33 AM on October 28, 2005
Better to regret the things you have done than those you haven't?
posted by nimsey lou at 3:33 AM on October 28, 2005
I think you're just afraid to ask her out again.
Forget the ring for a while. Go on a date. Be a mensch. And remember, you're required to keep us posted.
posted by maryh at 4:01 AM on October 28, 2005
Forget the ring for a while. Go on a date. Be a mensch. And remember, you're required to keep us posted.
posted by maryh at 4:01 AM on October 28, 2005
No, nimsey lou - not in this case. This time, the potential downsides (losing her forever, weirding her out, becoming an office pariah) are far outweighed by the infinitesimally small chance that she'll say 'yes'.
I think klangklangston's nailed it: either you're sane, in which case ask her for another date, or you're a nutter, in which case propose and get it over and done with.
posted by blag at 4:41 AM on October 28, 2005
I think klangklangston's nailed it: either you're sane, in which case ask her for another date, or you're a nutter, in which case propose and get it over and done with.
posted by blag at 4:41 AM on October 28, 2005
I just wanted to add: anon posts:
The trouble is that (a) I don't know what kind of rings she likes, (b) I don't know what size ring she wears, (c) I don't think she'll say 'yes', and (d) I love her more than she loves me.
Anon, you have the items in the entirely reverse order. The primary trouble is that you love her more than she loves you; in second place is that you don't think she would say yes. You didn't say that "you're not sure she'll say yes," but that you "don't think" she will. The first problems you should address are these two, not rings.
I'm seconding the advice of most here, go out on some more dates. She may very well fall in love with you, as deeply as you feel for her.
If "leaving the work team" means that she's moving away and that's why you feel that you're in a more desperate situation, just ask her out on a date before she leaves. If there's no opportunity for that, at least get a freakin' coffee with her during the work day. And just mention, "Hey, I've really been having some feelings for you and I feel horrible that we didn't get to explore something more before you left." See what she says. She'll be far more receptive to this, than to being proposed to after only a few dates.
Also, anon, you're not creepy. In desperate situations, everyone's done things that they think make sense, that others interpret as creepy or extreme. But I do agree with most here that the object of your affections will very likely find your sudden proposal unsettling.
And finally, as a female, if I ever do get married, rings, stones, settings mean nothing to me. It's all about the love, not the jewelry.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 5:16 AM on October 28, 2005
The trouble is that (a) I don't know what kind of rings she likes, (b) I don't know what size ring she wears, (c) I don't think she'll say 'yes', and (d) I love her more than she loves me.
Anon, you have the items in the entirely reverse order. The primary trouble is that you love her more than she loves you; in second place is that you don't think she would say yes. You didn't say that "you're not sure she'll say yes," but that you "don't think" she will. The first problems you should address are these two, not rings.
I'm seconding the advice of most here, go out on some more dates. She may very well fall in love with you, as deeply as you feel for her.
If "leaving the work team" means that she's moving away and that's why you feel that you're in a more desperate situation, just ask her out on a date before she leaves. If there's no opportunity for that, at least get a freakin' coffee with her during the work day. And just mention, "Hey, I've really been having some feelings for you and I feel horrible that we didn't get to explore something more before you left." See what she says. She'll be far more receptive to this, than to being proposed to after only a few dates.
Also, anon, you're not creepy. In desperate situations, everyone's done things that they think make sense, that others interpret as creepy or extreme. But I do agree with most here that the object of your affections will very likely find your sudden proposal unsettling.
And finally, as a female, if I ever do get married, rings, stones, settings mean nothing to me. It's all about the love, not the jewelry.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 5:16 AM on October 28, 2005
Listen to scody. She's got good sense and isn't taking the easy opportunity to insult you. But seriously, this is a bad idea. Don't listen to the "follow your heart!" crowd; they're not the ones who are going to have to live with the consequences.
posted by languagehat at 6:24 AM on October 28, 2005
posted by languagehat at 6:24 AM on October 28, 2005
In desperate situations, everyone's done things that they think make sense, that others interpret as creepy or extreme.
That's very true, so don't feel bad about these answers, we've all been there... maybe not this far out on a crazy limb, but shades of it. Maybe you're generally prone to misreading social cues, which would explain how you've come to be so utterly and wildly off the mark here. Or maybe you've just got it so bad that you've totally lost your reason.
Either way, this is a spectacularly bad example of acting on the crazy love drug and she will think you're weird, be freaked out and very likely never want to speak to you or see you again. If someone did this to me I would first of all think they were joking and if they turned out to be for real, would think they were hiding a deep and frightening seam of genuine insanity.
Keep the big proposal as a fantasy for you to enjoy in your mind's eye and ask her on another date. Revisit the proposal in a year or two's time if you are with her then.
posted by penguin pie at 6:36 AM on October 28, 2005
That's very true, so don't feel bad about these answers, we've all been there... maybe not this far out on a crazy limb, but shades of it. Maybe you're generally prone to misreading social cues, which would explain how you've come to be so utterly and wildly off the mark here. Or maybe you've just got it so bad that you've totally lost your reason.
Either way, this is a spectacularly bad example of acting on the crazy love drug and she will think you're weird, be freaked out and very likely never want to speak to you or see you again. If someone did this to me I would first of all think they were joking and if they turned out to be for real, would think they were hiding a deep and frightening seam of genuine insanity.
Keep the big proposal as a fantasy for you to enjoy in your mind's eye and ask her on another date. Revisit the proposal in a year or two's time if you are with her then.
posted by penguin pie at 6:36 AM on October 28, 2005
My parents knew each other for 6 weeks and had about 4 dates. They have been married for 42 years!
Because getting married in 2005 is exactly like getting married in 1963.
posted by mendel at 6:46 AM on October 28, 2005
Because getting married in 2005 is exactly like getting married in 1963.
posted by mendel at 6:46 AM on October 28, 2005
The folks at the store can ballpark her size from an estimate of height and weight.
That's an absolutely horrible idea. I'm willing to accept the idea that I'm a total freak but even thinking about my female friends... there's no way in hell you could predict the size of their hands from any other statistics.
posted by dagnyscott at 7:06 AM on October 28, 2005
That's an absolutely horrible idea. I'm willing to accept the idea that I'm a total freak but even thinking about my female friends... there's no way in hell you could predict the size of their hands from any other statistics.
posted by dagnyscott at 7:06 AM on October 28, 2005
If I could flag scody's answer as "Best Answer", I would.
Wow. Yeah, dude, settle down, hoss. I'm going to venture a little armchair psychiatry and guess that you have a fairly immature concept of romantic relationships. Let me guess- you work at a very demanding, long-hours job, and haven't dated much outside of college? Intense work environments often breed messy, complicated relationships.
Look, these things will come. Even in the one-in-a-million chance that she says "yes", I don't think YOU are ready to be married.
My advice- no ring. No declarations of love. Stay away from her for a few weeks, or even months. See if you still feel the same way when you're not around her so often.
posted by mkultra at 8:32 AM on October 28, 2005
Wow. Yeah, dude, settle down, hoss. I'm going to venture a little armchair psychiatry and guess that you have a fairly immature concept of romantic relationships. Let me guess- you work at a very demanding, long-hours job, and haven't dated much outside of college? Intense work environments often breed messy, complicated relationships.
Look, these things will come. Even in the one-in-a-million chance that she says "yes", I don't think YOU are ready to be married.
My advice- no ring. No declarations of love. Stay away from her for a few weeks, or even months. See if you still feel the same way when you're not around her so often.
posted by mkultra at 8:32 AM on October 28, 2005
Tell her you are in love with her, you intend to marry her someday, and that while you aren't that bright or tasteful, you do have both enthusiasm and staying power...
Ask her out on a date, and tell her that you would like her to bring her parents... reassure her that you won't be proposing, you aren't that crazy, but you are pretty damn serious and you want to see what you are getting into...
Telling people what's really going on in your head is way better than doing crazy stuff based on what's going on in your head... meeting the parents is critical... dating isn't a serious activity... having dinner with family is...
posted by ewkpates at 8:53 AM on October 28, 2005
Ask her out on a date, and tell her that you would like her to bring her parents... reassure her that you won't be proposing, you aren't that crazy, but you are pretty damn serious and you want to see what you are getting into...
Telling people what's really going on in your head is way better than doing crazy stuff based on what's going on in your head... meeting the parents is critical... dating isn't a serious activity... having dinner with family is...
posted by ewkpates at 8:53 AM on October 28, 2005
Ask her out on a date, and tell her that you would like her to bring her parents...
WHAT?
All due respect, but I think that's almost weirder than being proposed to.
posted by penguin pie at 9:20 AM on October 28, 2005
WHAT?
All due respect, but I think that's almost weirder than being proposed to.
posted by penguin pie at 9:20 AM on October 28, 2005
penguin pie - I agree; Does it matter that the poster states they are professionals in their 30's?
posted by AllesKlar at 9:22 AM on October 28, 2005
posted by AllesKlar at 9:22 AM on October 28, 2005
It's more that asking to bring the parents along on a date (apart from making for one of the more bizarre ways I can imagine to spend an evening), says "I want to talk to your parents about marrying you" or "I'm thinking about marrying you but I can't quite make up my mind, I'd like to see if you're from good stock," completely ignoring the fact that the woman in question might want nothing to do with the whole affair.
But maybe we're straying here... anon, just go for a long walk somewhere beautiful and think hard.
posted by penguin pie at 9:46 AM on October 28, 2005
But maybe we're straying here... anon, just go for a long walk somewhere beautiful and think hard.
posted by penguin pie at 9:46 AM on October 28, 2005
Tell her you are in love with her, you intend to marry her someday....
Ask her out on a date, and tell her that you would like her to bring her parents... reassure her that you won't be proposing, you aren't that crazy, but you are pretty damn serious and you want to see what you are getting into...
I think I see where you're coming from with this. But, if a gent I'd been on two dates with wanted the third to be with my parents, I'd think that was totally bizarre. I'd likely be quite against dating him further.
Also, if someone told me after two dates that he's "intending" to marry me someday, I'd be pretty pissed off at him for presuming that he can somehow convince me to marry him.
A third date is what's needed, not talk of marriage, not talk of meeting the parents, not (in my opinion) even talk of love.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 9:56 AM on October 28, 2005
Ask her out on a date, and tell her that you would like her to bring her parents... reassure her that you won't be proposing, you aren't that crazy, but you are pretty damn serious and you want to see what you are getting into...
I think I see where you're coming from with this. But, if a gent I'd been on two dates with wanted the third to be with my parents, I'd think that was totally bizarre. I'd likely be quite against dating him further.
Also, if someone told me after two dates that he's "intending" to marry me someday, I'd be pretty pissed off at him for presuming that he can somehow convince me to marry him.
A third date is what's needed, not talk of marriage, not talk of meeting the parents, not (in my opinion) even talk of love.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 9:56 AM on October 28, 2005
I think it's pretty weird to think a guy on the verge of proposing to a girl should ask her out on a date... like he's going to be able to conceal the intensity of his feelings and pretend he's just trying to score or something... she'll be on to him in 10 minutes...
Either he's ring shopping or he isn't... if he is then telling him to discuss appetizers misses his perspective by a mile... marriage is about family... and it's about honesty... if that's not going to be the deciding factor now... it never will be...
p.s. convincing women to marry us/sleep with us/bear our children... it's what we DO... I mean really, they don't often volunteer...
posted by ewkpates at 10:32 AM on October 28, 2005
Either he's ring shopping or he isn't... if he is then telling him to discuss appetizers misses his perspective by a mile... marriage is about family... and it's about honesty... if that's not going to be the deciding factor now... it never will be...
p.s. convincing women to marry us/sleep with us/bear our children... it's what we DO... I mean really, they don't often volunteer...
posted by ewkpates at 10:32 AM on October 28, 2005
p.s. convincing women to marry us/sleep with us/bear our children... it's what we DO... I mean really, they don't often volunteer...
because men assume that any woman who volunteers for any of those things is insane. not to derail, but seriously... think about what you're saying.
posted by dagnyscott at 10:48 AM on October 28, 2005
because men assume that any woman who volunteers for any of those things is insane. not to derail, but seriously... think about what you're saying.
posted by dagnyscott at 10:48 AM on October 28, 2005
before she goes I want to buy her an engagement ring.Dude, you're not buying her a gift, you're asking her to marry you -- to make a permanent, life-altering decision that is (in theory) binding forever. There is a HUUUUGE difference between the two, and it's not clear that you realize that because if you did you would have said "I want to ask her to marry me" and not "I'd like to buy her a ring."
You can convey to her that you have deep feelings in many other ways, you do not need to bring the marriage factor into the equation because it's pretty clear that it is way too soon for that. Try simply telling her how you feel, in the right setting (i.e. NOT DURING WORK.)
posted by Rhomboid at 10:51 AM on October 28, 2005
p.s. convincing women to marry us/sleep with us/bear our children... it's what we DO... I mean really, they don't often volunteer...
Dude, you've been hanging out with the wrong women.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2005
Dude, you've been hanging out with the wrong women.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:02 AM on October 28, 2005
thanks for the great laugh, fire$wings ;-)
posted by Pressed Rat at 8:41 AM on October 29, 2005
posted by Pressed Rat at 8:41 AM on October 29, 2005
That's an absolutely horrible idea. I'm willing to accept the idea that I'm a total freak but even thinking about my female friends... there's no way in hell you could predict the size of their hands from any other statistics.
As an aside, you'd be surprised how predicable ring size is. I've sold jewelry for 10 years, on and off, and I can usually judge +/- 1 size before someone gets their hands on the counter.
posted by desuetude at 5:53 PM on October 30, 2005
As an aside, you'd be surprised how predicable ring size is. I've sold jewelry for 10 years, on and off, and I can usually judge +/- 1 size before someone gets their hands on the counter.
posted by desuetude at 5:53 PM on October 30, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by willnot at 4:21 PM on October 27, 2005