Money & Anxiety
March 23, 2014 6:35 AM Subscribe
I'm 34 years old and I got lucky in my current job and have been able to generate way more income than I need. I have everything I want, am doing all that I can when it comes to retirement savings/putting money away. Two part question: 1) What else should I be doing to ensure financial stability forever? 2) Is it weird that I don't have a strong desire to go buy stuff/do stuff/spend excessively?
I've got about $500k dollars in my savings account. More than $600k in my combined retirement accounts. I own my home outright. Cars (not extravagant) are paid for. I max my 401k. I contribute to an after-tax traditional IRA that I then convert to a Roth IRA.
I don't have children and am not married but am developing anxiety about whether or not I'm doing all the right things to ensure my financial stability for the future. I have this fear that some day my job will go away and I'll be back to the real world making a much more normal wage. I know the key here is to invest wisely but I'm no expert when it comes to doing that correctly. My primary strategy is to throw money at Fidelity's ETF funds at regular intervals. It's been working so far but that's because the market has been doing well.
Also - I'm conflicted about ways to spend the money I do have. I'm not frugal - I take vacations, eat out a lot, have lots of toys and clothes... but it took me several years to finally commit to paying a housekeeper $150/mo to come by and clean. Also, summer's coming and I'm agonizing about the $20/week it costs to have the grass cut. I feel like I'm being lazy having someone doing something that I could easily do myself. I wish I could think of ways to use the money I do have to make my life more fulfilling and be ok with committing to those plans.
Some background: I grew up really poor. Foodstamps, welfare, the whole nine. Lots of financial emergencies throughout my entire childhood and adolescence. I send lots of money back home and try to keep my mother (most of all) from having to struggle so much. My siblings live hand to mouth as well... I'm there for them when they need me but I struggle with the differences in our financial mindsets. Several times a year, I find myself paying rent, making car payments or buying groceries for someone in my family. I can afford it and don't mind helping out but I wonder if this role I play in my family is partially the source of my anxieties.
Questions:
1) Should I get a financial advisor? How do I find one that I can trust and depend on?
2) What have you done to make you feel good about your financial stability in the future?
3) Is it weird that I don't want to spend the money I have?
4) What ideas do you have for me to put my money to use to live a more fulfilling life?
I've got about $500k dollars in my savings account. More than $600k in my combined retirement accounts. I own my home outright. Cars (not extravagant) are paid for. I max my 401k. I contribute to an after-tax traditional IRA that I then convert to a Roth IRA.
I don't have children and am not married but am developing anxiety about whether or not I'm doing all the right things to ensure my financial stability for the future. I have this fear that some day my job will go away and I'll be back to the real world making a much more normal wage. I know the key here is to invest wisely but I'm no expert when it comes to doing that correctly. My primary strategy is to throw money at Fidelity's ETF funds at regular intervals. It's been working so far but that's because the market has been doing well.
Also - I'm conflicted about ways to spend the money I do have. I'm not frugal - I take vacations, eat out a lot, have lots of toys and clothes... but it took me several years to finally commit to paying a housekeeper $150/mo to come by and clean. Also, summer's coming and I'm agonizing about the $20/week it costs to have the grass cut. I feel like I'm being lazy having someone doing something that I could easily do myself. I wish I could think of ways to use the money I do have to make my life more fulfilling and be ok with committing to those plans.
Some background: I grew up really poor. Foodstamps, welfare, the whole nine. Lots of financial emergencies throughout my entire childhood and adolescence. I send lots of money back home and try to keep my mother (most of all) from having to struggle so much. My siblings live hand to mouth as well... I'm there for them when they need me but I struggle with the differences in our financial mindsets. Several times a year, I find myself paying rent, making car payments or buying groceries for someone in my family. I can afford it and don't mind helping out but I wonder if this role I play in my family is partially the source of my anxieties.
Questions:
1) Should I get a financial advisor? How do I find one that I can trust and depend on?
2) What have you done to make you feel good about your financial stability in the future?
3) Is it weird that I don't want to spend the money I have?
4) What ideas do you have for me to put my money to use to live a more fulfilling life?
At 34, you are easily in the top 2% of all households in the US in terms of net worth. I'm assuming from your savings levels that your income is above $200,000/year, which puts you easily in the top 5% of all households in the US. Most households in this group will have two incomes, in the population of single 34-year-olds you are easily top 1% in both wealth in income.
This is what I would think about were I anxious about money. If the income and savings habits can continue, you are literally set for life.
posted by deadweightloss at 7:02 AM on March 23, 2014
This is what I would think about were I anxious about money. If the income and savings habits can continue, you are literally set for life.
posted by deadweightloss at 7:02 AM on March 23, 2014
I knew someone similar to you, with plenty of money in the present and with a similar past that caused a lot of present anxiety as well as difficulties on several emotional fronts. Definitely put some resources into therapy. It can be slow getting something meaningful out of therapy, especially if you're resistant to the idea, but with some commitment to the process, your life will be better for it.
posted by ihavequestions at 7:06 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by ihavequestions at 7:06 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
1. Look for a fee-only advisor. They get paid directly by you, instead of being paid a commission by a third party. This makes them beholden to you, rather than the fund companies.
3. Spending less than you make can be a fine financial strategy. Spending money won't make you happy or bring you any durable satisfaction. If you still have anxiety about it and you feel unfulfilled, maybe you could see a therapist to address your relationship with money.
Also, if you have $500,000 in one savings account, then I would recommend splitting it into at least two accounts at different banks. Savings accounts in the US are insured up to $250,000 by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. If you have more than that in one account, then the excess amount is not insured if the bank goes under.
posted by adgl at 7:10 AM on March 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
3. Spending less than you make can be a fine financial strategy. Spending money won't make you happy or bring you any durable satisfaction. If you still have anxiety about it and you feel unfulfilled, maybe you could see a therapist to address your relationship with money.
Also, if you have $500,000 in one savings account, then I would recommend splitting it into at least two accounts at different banks. Savings accounts in the US are insured up to $250,000 by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. If you have more than that in one account, then the excess amount is not insured if the bank goes under.
posted by adgl at 7:10 AM on March 23, 2014 [15 favorites]
Is it weird that I don't have a strong desire to go buy stuff/do stuff/spend excessively?
No. It is not weird. It's a tiny bit humblebraggy :) but that's okay.
You mention several times wanting to make your life "more fulfilling" -- sounds like your first step is to decide what you would find fulfilling. That could mean retiring or cutting way back on work and devoting your time to some other activity you truly enjoy, or it could mean exactly the opposite if you find work rewarding.
(I was in a similar financial position to yours about ten years ago, but without the needy relatives. I decided to retire. Worst year of my life -- I was directionless and miserable. Now I work but only on jobs that interest me. I'm much happier.)
You could get a financial advisor and/or devote a lot of your time to turnig your money into even more money, if you think that would be fulfilling. Or you could decide that whatever you're already doing there is good enough -- clearly it's worked out well for you so far!
You really do have the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want to do with the rest of your life. It's an enviable position to be in but also kind of a scary one (because you're confronted with the fact that deciding what you really want to do is not so easy a decision!)
posted by ook at 7:11 AM on March 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
No. It is not weird. It's a tiny bit humblebraggy :) but that's okay.
You mention several times wanting to make your life "more fulfilling" -- sounds like your first step is to decide what you would find fulfilling. That could mean retiring or cutting way back on work and devoting your time to some other activity you truly enjoy, or it could mean exactly the opposite if you find work rewarding.
(I was in a similar financial position to yours about ten years ago, but without the needy relatives. I decided to retire. Worst year of my life -- I was directionless and miserable. Now I work but only on jobs that interest me. I'm much happier.)
You could get a financial advisor and/or devote a lot of your time to turnig your money into even more money, if you think that would be fulfilling. Or you could decide that whatever you're already doing there is good enough -- clearly it's worked out well for you so far!
You really do have the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want to do with the rest of your life. It's an enviable position to be in but also kind of a scary one (because you're confronted with the fact that deciding what you really want to do is not so easy a decision!)
posted by ook at 7:11 AM on March 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
If it were me, I'd just hire a guy to take care of it for me, so you don't have to stress about it. You can afford it. Just make sure that you get a fee-only advisor and so on.
Also, set up a trust for your family and have someone take care of it for you.
posted by empath at 7:15 AM on March 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
Also, set up a trust for your family and have someone take care of it for you.
posted by empath at 7:15 AM on March 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
It seems like your anxieties about money focus specifically on letting people take over doing things that you probably feel like you're capable of doing yourself. You're able to spend money on THINGS but not on SERVICES. I think that truly successful people need to learn how to outsource services to professionals so they can focus their energies on the aspects of their work and lives where they truly shine. You are going to run yourself ragged if you keep trying to do it all yourself.
In your case, this absolutely means that you need to get a financial adviser on board, like, yesterday. When you say $500k in a savings account do you literally mean a cash savings account? Because that is just ... something that needs to be changed and a financial adviser can help you figure out the best way to *actually* help that money make your future more secure.
As to how to find the right financial adviser, I think word of mouth is the best approach if you have colleagues, friends or neighbors to get recommendations from.
And I agree with chaiminda that one of the services you would benefit from outsourcing would be some time with a therapist to sort through your financial anxieties and family-of-origin issues. There's a LOT there to unpack and you could literally be sitting on top of 100 million instead of a million right now and if you don't come to grips with that stuff you're still going to be anxious and uncertain and waiting for the shoe to drop instead of enjoying your success.
I say this coming from a place where I grew up middle class but spent nearly 20 years after leaving home for college anywhere from living paycheck-to-paycheck to below-poverty-line poor. It's been 10 years now since I've gotten away from that situation and it *still* impacts my thought processes about how I react to money issues. It's one of the topics that comes up from time to time in both individual counseling and couples therapy with my husband, and it's definitely something that makes it hard for me to relax and enjoy the financial success that I've finally achieved.
posted by drlith at 7:16 AM on March 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
In your case, this absolutely means that you need to get a financial adviser on board, like, yesterday. When you say $500k in a savings account do you literally mean a cash savings account? Because that is just ... something that needs to be changed and a financial adviser can help you figure out the best way to *actually* help that money make your future more secure.
As to how to find the right financial adviser, I think word of mouth is the best approach if you have colleagues, friends or neighbors to get recommendations from.
And I agree with chaiminda that one of the services you would benefit from outsourcing would be some time with a therapist to sort through your financial anxieties and family-of-origin issues. There's a LOT there to unpack and you could literally be sitting on top of 100 million instead of a million right now and if you don't come to grips with that stuff you're still going to be anxious and uncertain and waiting for the shoe to drop instead of enjoying your success.
I say this coming from a place where I grew up middle class but spent nearly 20 years after leaving home for college anywhere from living paycheck-to-paycheck to below-poverty-line poor. It's been 10 years now since I've gotten away from that situation and it *still* impacts my thought processes about how I react to money issues. It's one of the topics that comes up from time to time in both individual counseling and couples therapy with my husband, and it's definitely something that makes it hard for me to relax and enjoy the financial success that I've finally achieved.
posted by drlith at 7:16 AM on March 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Nthing to talk to someone about your anxiety. I think with some therapeutic guidance (and you should absolutely see a financial planner to set your anxieties at ease about properly investing), you can feel more positive about where you are in life.
I do want to touch on the cleaner and lawn service questions, though, because cleaning my house and doing yard work are labors of love. I get just as much if not more satisfaction from raking, bagging leaves, mowing my grass and landscaping as I do from relaxing vacations and yoga and doing a Mud Run. Tidying feels good. A beautiful yard that I created is incredibly satisfying.
I don't feel quite the same way about cooking, so I would pay someone to prepare meals for me since I get no joy from that.
But maybe you actually like landscaping? And house cleaning?
If these are labors of love for you then don't pay someone to do them for you. They're therapeutic.
posted by kinetic at 7:18 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I do want to touch on the cleaner and lawn service questions, though, because cleaning my house and doing yard work are labors of love. I get just as much if not more satisfaction from raking, bagging leaves, mowing my grass and landscaping as I do from relaxing vacations and yoga and doing a Mud Run. Tidying feels good. A beautiful yard that I created is incredibly satisfying.
I don't feel quite the same way about cooking, so I would pay someone to prepare meals for me since I get no joy from that.
But maybe you actually like landscaping? And house cleaning?
If these are labors of love for you then don't pay someone to do them for you. They're therapeutic.
posted by kinetic at 7:18 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you own your home outright, *and* have savings like that, you're doing great. Really, really great. If I were in your feet, I'd ignore the standard investment advice that "you're young and can be very risk-tolerant." With the kind of money you have, *and* with the home thing already covered, I'd tend towards bonds and index funds. You don't need to to put that kind of money to work, you just need to keep it safe over the next 30 years. (Again, already owning your home outright goes into my calculus there).
I don't know if therapy is what you need. I think you just need to develop a little more comfort with what you have.
There's lots of research about how the way money buys happiness is through memorable experiences. So go ahead and pay the housekeeper. Have them come every week, not every month. Have fresh flowers delivered regularly so your home is always really pleasant to be in.
Don't just eat out, but have really enjoyable meals.
Don't just pay someone to cut the grass, but find a landscaping firm that not only keeps things trim, but pretty.
Keep saving like you're doing, but use your disposable income to have your day-to-day existence be pleasurable. Paying people to keep the lawn nice, the house clean, and always having fresh flowers around would, at least for me, make me *very* happy.
Enjoy your great luck!
posted by colin_l at 7:19 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't know if therapy is what you need. I think you just need to develop a little more comfort with what you have.
There's lots of research about how the way money buys happiness is through memorable experiences. So go ahead and pay the housekeeper. Have them come every week, not every month. Have fresh flowers delivered regularly so your home is always really pleasant to be in.
Don't just eat out, but have really enjoyable meals.
Don't just pay someone to cut the grass, but find a landscaping firm that not only keeps things trim, but pretty.
Keep saving like you're doing, but use your disposable income to have your day-to-day existence be pleasurable. Paying people to keep the lawn nice, the house clean, and always having fresh flowers around would, at least for me, make me *very* happy.
Enjoy your great luck!
posted by colin_l at 7:19 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
3. One thing to consider, as you debate the merits of paying someone else to do what you could do yourself, is that by doing so you're helping them make a living.
posted by dywypi at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by dywypi at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2014 [20 favorites]
I have this fear that some day my job will go away and I'll be back to the real world making a much more normal wage.
You could contribute some of your money toward shoring up the social safety net, making the real world where people make normal wages a more secure place to be.
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 7:39 AM on March 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
You could contribute some of your money toward shoring up the social safety net, making the real world where people make normal wages a more secure place to be.
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 7:39 AM on March 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
I wonder if putting some structure around the assistance you're providing your family would help ease anxiety. If I were in your situation, knowing I could trust my own spending habits but not those of my family -- but still wanting to help them -- would cause a lot of anxiety for me. So, for example, invest in long term care insurance for your mother, plus decide on a monthly or annual budget of how much money you are willing to send her for her day-to-day expenses. For your siblings, decide ahead of time how much you're willing to assist and budget for it. A financial advisor might be able to help you put reasonable limits on this in addition to guiding your savings and investment strategy.
posted by misskaz at 7:43 AM on March 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by misskaz at 7:43 AM on March 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
3) Is it weird that I don't want to spend the money I have?
No. Of course not. More people should be like you.
However, if you do want to use money to live a "more fulfilling" life, my advice would be to shift your spending habits to optimize on things like quality and service rather than simply cost. Like if you need to get home or car repairs done, spend a little more money to pay for the contractor/handyman/mechanic who is responsive to your questions/requests and gets the job done quickly rather than the person you have to keep constant tabs on and takes a long time to finish just because he is the least expensive.
Look at clothes that fit properly and are of good quality, rather than ones that are just inexpensive things available at the discount store that fulfill the basic qualities of what you are looking for.
FIX things that are broken rather than being content with the fact that they are "half working" and working your life around that.
posted by deanc at 7:43 AM on March 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
No. Of course not. More people should be like you.
However, if you do want to use money to live a "more fulfilling" life, my advice would be to shift your spending habits to optimize on things like quality and service rather than simply cost. Like if you need to get home or car repairs done, spend a little more money to pay for the contractor/handyman/mechanic who is responsive to your questions/requests and gets the job done quickly rather than the person you have to keep constant tabs on and takes a long time to finish just because he is the least expensive.
Look at clothes that fit properly and are of good quality, rather than ones that are just inexpensive things available at the discount store that fulfill the basic qualities of what you are looking for.
FIX things that are broken rather than being content with the fact that they are "half working" and working your life around that.
posted by deanc at 7:43 AM on March 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Don't fall into the trap of thinking you have enough money to retire NOW, you don't. That money, which is an awesome sum, would need to last you 50 years.
Focus on finding a good financial adviser who can help with wise investments. Investing does not need to be throwing money at the stock market, or paying huge fees for little return, you can tailor your plan to your inclinations (conservative, moderate, aggressive, etc. At your age, I recommend a more conservative approach since there is no NEED to generate lumps of money off your invested funds in a short period of time).
The key is trust. You need to trust your adviser and you need to be comfortable with them: with asking questions, asking for clarifications, explanations, and to be walked through different options.
You're doing amazing. Keep on keeping on.
posted by lydhre at 7:51 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Focus on finding a good financial adviser who can help with wise investments. Investing does not need to be throwing money at the stock market, or paying huge fees for little return, you can tailor your plan to your inclinations (conservative, moderate, aggressive, etc. At your age, I recommend a more conservative approach since there is no NEED to generate lumps of money off your invested funds in a short period of time).
The key is trust. You need to trust your adviser and you need to be comfortable with them: with asking questions, asking for clarifications, explanations, and to be walked through different options.
You're doing amazing. Keep on keeping on.
posted by lydhre at 7:51 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Suggestions above are great, and you're doing very well to maintain your low-spending ethic. It's far too easy to fall into the trap of spending what you have, especially coming from a low-income family. It's excellent that you're helping your family, but that can get challenging if they begin to expect the help.
No need to spend money just because you have it, or to buy things that are better than you care about. If you're happy with a small simple car, no need for a BMW or Tesla just because you can - same thing with everything else.
If you're looking for a community of people with similar outlook and questions, check out Mr. Money Moustache, especially the forums. Lots of people there who live well beneath their means - some of whom are retired or trying to retire early (although see ook's comment above for some caveats about that).
posted by dttocs at 7:58 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
No need to spend money just because you have it, or to buy things that are better than you care about. If you're happy with a small simple car, no need for a BMW or Tesla just because you can - same thing with everything else.
If you're looking for a community of people with similar outlook and questions, check out Mr. Money Moustache, especially the forums. Lots of people there who live well beneath their means - some of whom are retired or trying to retire early (although see ook's comment above for some caveats about that).
posted by dttocs at 7:58 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I grew up poor of the same variety you did, and while I don't have as much money as you, I struggle with a lot of the same anxieties. I completely understand being willing to take vacations and buy nice clothes but still feel conflicted about paying a cleaning lady. You can clean your own house, but you can't swim to Aruba. The conflict between feeling like you deserve something and feeling like you still have to sweat for it can be overwhelming.
There are definitely some good suggestions upthread. If I were in your financial shoes, I'd start off with a fee-only financial planner. He or she will go over your goals and not judge you! Just tell them what you've said here, and you'll walk out with a plan. It's likely that that plan will involve a beneficial trust or two, if you're looking to help out your family. You just put money aside for the year, or whatever term you want, pay someone a small fee (which is totally worth it!) to administer the money to your family members. You just tell family, "I want to help you out because I love you and I can. I can afford to help you out to the tune of $9,750 this year. I'm putting that money aside, now, into a trust. If you need it, contact this person at this bank to get some. If you run out, that's it for the year. If you don't use it all, it'll roll over into next year. If you want some help with budgeting, let me know and I'll hook you up with an advisor, otherwise, there's no strings attached." Then let it go!
The way rich people stay rich is by dividends. This is the classic "make your money work for you" advice. Basically, once you have enough money in investments, you'll be able to live off the interest and return on investment without having to touch the principle. For example, if your overall rate of return on investment is 1.6%, which is what my savings account makes, investing $500K nets you $6,000/yr - which is not enough to live on. A financial planner can help you figure out how much you need per year to live comfortably, and what to invest every year and how to invest it to work towards that goal.
The next place to put your money is into a good therapist. Anytime you find yourself asking, "Is it weird that I feel...?" you are a good candidate to talk to someone qualified rather than the internet. I mean, yeah, go ahead and ask the internet too, that's why we're here, but if you're looking to spend your money in ways that will improve your life, therapy is an easy call.
posted by juniperesque at 8:01 AM on March 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
There are definitely some good suggestions upthread. If I were in your financial shoes, I'd start off with a fee-only financial planner. He or she will go over your goals and not judge you! Just tell them what you've said here, and you'll walk out with a plan. It's likely that that plan will involve a beneficial trust or two, if you're looking to help out your family. You just put money aside for the year, or whatever term you want, pay someone a small fee (which is totally worth it!) to administer the money to your family members. You just tell family, "I want to help you out because I love you and I can. I can afford to help you out to the tune of $9,750 this year. I'm putting that money aside, now, into a trust. If you need it, contact this person at this bank to get some. If you run out, that's it for the year. If you don't use it all, it'll roll over into next year. If you want some help with budgeting, let me know and I'll hook you up with an advisor, otherwise, there's no strings attached." Then let it go!
The way rich people stay rich is by dividends. This is the classic "make your money work for you" advice. Basically, once you have enough money in investments, you'll be able to live off the interest and return on investment without having to touch the principle. For example, if your overall rate of return on investment is 1.6%, which is what my savings account makes, investing $500K nets you $6,000/yr - which is not enough to live on. A financial planner can help you figure out how much you need per year to live comfortably, and what to invest every year and how to invest it to work towards that goal.
The next place to put your money is into a good therapist. Anytime you find yourself asking, "Is it weird that I feel...?" you are a good candidate to talk to someone qualified rather than the internet. I mean, yeah, go ahead and ask the internet too, that's why we're here, but if you're looking to spend your money in ways that will improve your life, therapy is an easy call.
posted by juniperesque at 8:01 AM on March 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
You actually have way too much money in your savings account. Retirement is a long, expensive time, and you will need more money than you have now. Keep a good sum as an emergency cushion, but I can't see where you would need more than $100k. Invest the rest of that. Even CDs or money market accounts will give you a better yield than savings. Or invest at least some of it in an index fund or something which will grow for you more over the long haul, but you can get at without penalty should you need it (unlike your 401k).
posted by J. Wilson at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by J. Wilson at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Congratulations; you're doing really well and in many ways, have a very good attitude about things (realizing that your success has an element of luck, helping your family, understanding that this is not guaranteed to last, taking advantage of retirement account benefits).
1. For managing money, everyone is saying that you should get a financial advisor and perhaps you should. However, the fact that you have 600k in retirement accounts and are doing the backdoor Roth trick suggests that you're reasonably financially savvy. Throwing money at Fidelity ETFs is actually a pretty good way to invest -- perhaps check out the bogleheads forum for some thoughts on how to pick a decent mix of ETFs but really, you could be doing a lot worse.
(BTW, I assumed from your ETF comments that 'savings account' was a high-level description and not an actual savings account. If it's an actual savings account than yes, invest in something; possibly low-risk if you're worried about risk; check out bogleheads or just do what you're doing w/ ETFs for that)
2. See 1. So long as you continue investing well and don't develop absurdly wasteful habits, you're in great shape. Even if your current job situation goes away, your savings + a regular job + a sensible lifestyle will leave you very comfortable
3. As far as spending, there's a mix. You should definitely not be miserly and realize that your time is valuable so paying for services to help you have more free time to enjoy life is a great investment. Helping family is also very admirable. Living strongly below your means though has the great advantage that it helps you avoid the rat race -- if you started spending 80% of your income, not only would your savings grow slowly but you would get used to the 400k/year or whatever standard of living and would be trapped in your career. There are people who make lots of money and hate their jobs, but because they got used to the expensive life, they have no choice but to keep running on the hamster wheel.
4. Studies have shown that spending on experiences as opposed to things makes people happy. If there are things you've wanted to do but have put them off due to cost, now is the time to take up some expensive hobbies. Have you always wanted to go on fancy safari? Learn to fly? Get involved in a cultural or charitable organization?
posted by bsdfish at 8:26 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
1. For managing money, everyone is saying that you should get a financial advisor and perhaps you should. However, the fact that you have 600k in retirement accounts and are doing the backdoor Roth trick suggests that you're reasonably financially savvy. Throwing money at Fidelity ETFs is actually a pretty good way to invest -- perhaps check out the bogleheads forum for some thoughts on how to pick a decent mix of ETFs but really, you could be doing a lot worse.
(BTW, I assumed from your ETF comments that 'savings account' was a high-level description and not an actual savings account. If it's an actual savings account than yes, invest in something; possibly low-risk if you're worried about risk; check out bogleheads or just do what you're doing w/ ETFs for that)
2. See 1. So long as you continue investing well and don't develop absurdly wasteful habits, you're in great shape. Even if your current job situation goes away, your savings + a regular job + a sensible lifestyle will leave you very comfortable
3. As far as spending, there's a mix. You should definitely not be miserly and realize that your time is valuable so paying for services to help you have more free time to enjoy life is a great investment. Helping family is also very admirable. Living strongly below your means though has the great advantage that it helps you avoid the rat race -- if you started spending 80% of your income, not only would your savings grow slowly but you would get used to the 400k/year or whatever standard of living and would be trapped in your career. There are people who make lots of money and hate their jobs, but because they got used to the expensive life, they have no choice but to keep running on the hamster wheel.
4. Studies have shown that spending on experiences as opposed to things makes people happy. If there are things you've wanted to do but have put them off due to cost, now is the time to take up some expensive hobbies. Have you always wanted to go on fancy safari? Learn to fly? Get involved in a cultural or charitable organization?
posted by bsdfish at 8:26 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Lots of good advice here. Just wanted to add my vote to quality of life things. You don't have to go all 'big spender' just add a few things here and there that would add to your happiness.
Study after study has proven that changes from the everyday, even taking a different route home from work, greatly contributes to happiness. So go try out new things. New restaurants, hobbies, last minute weekend getaway deals, etc.
And don't forget, you are only getting older, so if there are things out there that seem cool, put it on your list of things to do. You never know how old age will hit you. You might be the kind of retiree that runs two marathons per weekend (like my rockstar friend does) or you might be mobility challenged. You might be able to chow down on street food in South Asia, or you might need such a restricted diet that visiting family in a different city poses a challenge.
My point is, you find yourself in a uniquely privileged position. Don't squander it in anxiety or guilt or by being overly thrifty. Carpe Diem!
posted by Neekee at 8:57 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Study after study has proven that changes from the everyday, even taking a different route home from work, greatly contributes to happiness. So go try out new things. New restaurants, hobbies, last minute weekend getaway deals, etc.
And don't forget, you are only getting older, so if there are things out there that seem cool, put it on your list of things to do. You never know how old age will hit you. You might be the kind of retiree that runs two marathons per weekend (like my rockstar friend does) or you might be mobility challenged. You might be able to chow down on street food in South Asia, or you might need such a restricted diet that visiting family in a different city poses a challenge.
My point is, you find yourself in a uniquely privileged position. Don't squander it in anxiety or guilt or by being overly thrifty. Carpe Diem!
posted by Neekee at 8:57 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
1) Should I get a financial advisor? How do I find one that I can trust and depend on?
Yes. You're probably looking for a Registered Investment Advisor. These advisors are bound to a fiduciary standard which means they must act in your best interests and eliminate (or at a bare minimum clearly disclose) conflicts of interest.
There are other advisors (brokers and dealers) who are held to a lower "suitability" standard which simply means that the investment is "reasonable" for a person with your resources and goals. And almost anything can be considered reasonable for a wealthy young single person.
A good financial advisor is one who you communicate with well, who chooses low-fee options, who clearly explains both the strategy and the selected tactics, and who doesn't pressure you.
2) What have you done to make you feel good about your financial stability in the future?
I continuously improve my professional skills, to feel confident that I won't wake up as a dinosaur.
3) Is it weird that I don't want to spend the money I have?
No.
4) What ideas do you have for me to put my money to use to live a more fulfilling life?
Hard to suggest without knowing you, but experiences create more lasting happiness than similarly priced objects, and helping others tends to have an outsized emotional reward.
posted by grudgebgon at 8:58 AM on March 23, 2014
Yes. You're probably looking for a Registered Investment Advisor. These advisors are bound to a fiduciary standard which means they must act in your best interests and eliminate (or at a bare minimum clearly disclose) conflicts of interest.
There are other advisors (brokers and dealers) who are held to a lower "suitability" standard which simply means that the investment is "reasonable" for a person with your resources and goals. And almost anything can be considered reasonable for a wealthy young single person.
A good financial advisor is one who you communicate with well, who chooses low-fee options, who clearly explains both the strategy and the selected tactics, and who doesn't pressure you.
2) What have you done to make you feel good about your financial stability in the future?
I continuously improve my professional skills, to feel confident that I won't wake up as a dinosaur.
3) Is it weird that I don't want to spend the money I have?
No.
4) What ideas do you have for me to put my money to use to live a more fulfilling life?
Hard to suggest without knowing you, but experiences create more lasting happiness than similarly priced objects, and helping others tends to have an outsized emotional reward.
posted by grudgebgon at 8:58 AM on March 23, 2014
One concrete idea to at least get this discussion started:
You said that you invest with Fidelity. They offer a range of things (managed accounts, personal advice, and so forth) that may help you here, where you get to interact with a human who knows what they're talking about. Call the first number on this page -- or better yet, walk into a local office -- and explain your situation. They'll set you up with someone to talk to. As I recall, there's no cost or obligation associated with these meetings.
Full disclosure: I use some of these services with Fidelity. I know nearly nothing about investing, but they've always treated me well and I trust their decision-making. I'm not affiliated with them other than as a customer.
If you have investments with other, similar companies, I imagine that they all provide some services similar to this.
posted by Dilligas at 9:18 AM on March 23, 2014
You said that you invest with Fidelity. They offer a range of things (managed accounts, personal advice, and so forth) that may help you here, where you get to interact with a human who knows what they're talking about. Call the first number on this page -- or better yet, walk into a local office -- and explain your situation. They'll set you up with someone to talk to. As I recall, there's no cost or obligation associated with these meetings.
Full disclosure: I use some of these services with Fidelity. I know nearly nothing about investing, but they've always treated me well and I trust their decision-making. I'm not affiliated with them other than as a customer.
If you have investments with other, similar companies, I imagine that they all provide some services similar to this.
posted by Dilligas at 9:18 AM on March 23, 2014
Try to remember that by paying $20/week to cut grass, you are significantly contributing to someone's income while barely moving a smidgen of your own.
However, I seriously doubt your anxiety will disappear, more likely you'll start agonizing over something else. So therapy and/or investing in different experiences is a good.
Last year, during a particularly stressful time in my life, I learned to make soap. It required a great deal of research (active lye is no joke!) but that helped me not think of family stress. Not cheap if compared to say, buying Dove soap at the store. If anything, my husband and parents are over the moon and very generous about it bc they could tell the difference it made in my life.
Since you are used to doing things yourself, how about wood working? You could go at your own pace without the pressure of say, re-tiling your kitchen floor bc you need your kitchen.
Archery class? Join a running group? Yoga?
posted by Neekee at 10:11 AM on March 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
However, I seriously doubt your anxiety will disappear, more likely you'll start agonizing over something else. So therapy and/or investing in different experiences is a good.
Last year, during a particularly stressful time in my life, I learned to make soap. It required a great deal of research (active lye is no joke!) but that helped me not think of family stress. Not cheap if compared to say, buying Dove soap at the store. If anything, my husband and parents are over the moon and very generous about it bc they could tell the difference it made in my life.
Since you are used to doing things yourself, how about wood working? You could go at your own pace without the pressure of say, re-tiling your kitchen floor bc you need your kitchen.
Archery class? Join a running group? Yoga?
posted by Neekee at 10:11 AM on March 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
1) Should I get a financial advisor? How do I find one that I can trust and depend on? I think you would benefit from a fee-only advisor, to help you improve your return while still maintaining security.
2) What have you done to make you feel good about your financial stability in the future? I paid off my house, which feels great, and I have very little debt. A great way to be secure is to have good friends & family - they'll help you through tough times in life, to keep job skills current, and to have lots of skills in general.
3) Is it weird that I don't want to spend the money I have? Weird, no. Sounds like you have a pleasant life, and increased spending wouldn't necessarily enhance it. I encourage you to generally buy high quality when you spend, since you have that option - subscribe to Consumer Reports for good info. You might want to think about spending options like a 2nd home that might also be a good investment. Lots of the ways people spend money are bad for the environment, support horrid employment practices, create more consumer junk that will end up in a landfill. Spend in ways you enjoy. Try to recognize that you have a lot of financial security, and financial options.
4) What ideas do you have for me to put my money to use to live a more fulfilling life? Your financial goal sounds like "enough money to survive any crisis" and you're doing just fine on that score. Other goals sound like "provide for Mom" and "help family out" and you're doing that, too. Maybe you need some new goals. You could get active in a non-profit that does work you value. You could collect art. You could go on trips to even more interesting places, or where you'd learn cool stuff. A 2nd home could be used for family get-togethers, and used by family members who can't afford a vacation at the lake, or wherever. You could start a 3rd pool of savings to start your own company some day. You could help change the world, at least a corner of it.
You're in the US, right? We're a consumer-driven culture, but you don't have to be. I choose to invest in socially responsible funds where possible, with good returns. I'd rather not make money by owning shares in, say, Big Tobacco, or MegaPollutoCorp. I sleep a tiny bit better at night.
posted by theora55 at 10:18 AM on March 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
2) What have you done to make you feel good about your financial stability in the future? I paid off my house, which feels great, and I have very little debt. A great way to be secure is to have good friends & family - they'll help you through tough times in life, to keep job skills current, and to have lots of skills in general.
3) Is it weird that I don't want to spend the money I have? Weird, no. Sounds like you have a pleasant life, and increased spending wouldn't necessarily enhance it. I encourage you to generally buy high quality when you spend, since you have that option - subscribe to Consumer Reports for good info. You might want to think about spending options like a 2nd home that might also be a good investment. Lots of the ways people spend money are bad for the environment, support horrid employment practices, create more consumer junk that will end up in a landfill. Spend in ways you enjoy. Try to recognize that you have a lot of financial security, and financial options.
4) What ideas do you have for me to put my money to use to live a more fulfilling life? Your financial goal sounds like "enough money to survive any crisis" and you're doing just fine on that score. Other goals sound like "provide for Mom" and "help family out" and you're doing that, too. Maybe you need some new goals. You could get active in a non-profit that does work you value. You could collect art. You could go on trips to even more interesting places, or where you'd learn cool stuff. A 2nd home could be used for family get-togethers, and used by family members who can't afford a vacation at the lake, or wherever. You could start a 3rd pool of savings to start your own company some day. You could help change the world, at least a corner of it.
You're in the US, right? We're a consumer-driven culture, but you don't have to be. I choose to invest in socially responsible funds where possible, with good returns. I'd rather not make money by owning shares in, say, Big Tobacco, or MegaPollutoCorp. I sleep a tiny bit better at night.
posted by theora55 at 10:18 AM on March 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
What ideas do you have for me to put my money to use to live a more fulfilling life?
I recommend spending some time volunteering with a local organization you care about, and then donating a little money to them. Really, really fulfilling way to spend money.
posted by three_red_balloons at 10:20 AM on March 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
I recommend spending some time volunteering with a local organization you care about, and then donating a little money to them. Really, really fulfilling way to spend money.
posted by three_red_balloons at 10:20 AM on March 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
If you have a combined $500,000 in a Vanguard account, you will be in their "Flagship" class, which gives you, among other things, access to their certified financial planners.
posted by jclovebrew at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2014
posted by jclovebrew at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2014
How I'm able to reduce anxiety over running out of money in the future: Having a house I could afford with a significant drop in income. If you're permanently settled somewhere where this is possible, buy a house with reasonable property taxes in cash and upgrade it so its utility and maintenance costs are low (insulation, etc.). This way, even if something terrible happens, you'll have that space to live in.
I also keep six months worth of food storage on hand, if that's the sort of thing that would make you feel more secure.
I second the suggestion of checking out Mr. Money Moustache. It may show you that you could in theory retire NOW, which may make you less stressed about a potential future without your current job.
Also, the suggestion of setting up trusts for family members is a great idea, to limit unexpected obligation to them. It also makes your contribution to them more clear, so they recognize how much you're giving them instead of perhaps not remembering you paid the rent that time and to fix that other time and and and.
It sounds like you may have a bit of "imposter syndrome" going on... Google that and see if it rings true.
posted by metasarah at 11:16 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I also keep six months worth of food storage on hand, if that's the sort of thing that would make you feel more secure.
I second the suggestion of checking out Mr. Money Moustache. It may show you that you could in theory retire NOW, which may make you less stressed about a potential future without your current job.
Also, the suggestion of setting up trusts for family members is a great idea, to limit unexpected obligation to them. It also makes your contribution to them more clear, so they recognize how much you're giving them instead of perhaps not remembering you paid the rent that time and to fix that other time and and and.
It sounds like you may have a bit of "imposter syndrome" going on... Google that and see if it rings true.
posted by metasarah at 11:16 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you don't want to spend it on yourself, you could do real good by getting involved in philanthropy. Even $1,000 a year is a big deal to a struggling non-profit, and you could probably give much more without much of a dent in your lifestyle. Again, a financial advisor could help you decide how much to give and to whom and in what form in order to take advantage of the tax benefits of charitable giving.
posted by jesourie at 11:43 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by jesourie at 11:43 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I was suggest setting a rough budget for yourself
1. Everyday expenses: Groceries, gas, internet etc.
2. Savings
3. Splurges: these fall in two categories
a. On-going splurges: things like a housekeeper or HBO that you can do without but you are enjoying. This is the category to be most careful about since after a while they start to feel essential and over the span of years. At the same time, having it as a category will help you feel in control of both how much you take on and the reassurance that you can drop it if you want or need to.
b Special one-time purchases or experiences: really great boots, a trip to Australia, stuff that makes you happy
5. Money to help others - both traditional charity and family gifts
You have plenty of money to do all of these things but you need to see the big picture to make sure that so that you can feel in control of the choices that you are making.
I would also suggest setting a separate savings account that you can put money into every month for helping others - that way when your family needs help you can have a better sense of whether you can afford it (because you already saved for it) and so you can give with less resentment since you know that you planned for it. If none needs it, then you either continue save up or gift it to more traditional charities or people outside of the family.
posted by metahawk at 11:56 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
1. Everyday expenses: Groceries, gas, internet etc.
2. Savings
3. Splurges: these fall in two categories
a. On-going splurges: things like a housekeeper or HBO that you can do without but you are enjoying. This is the category to be most careful about since after a while they start to feel essential and over the span of years. At the same time, having it as a category will help you feel in control of both how much you take on and the reassurance that you can drop it if you want or need to.
b Special one-time purchases or experiences: really great boots, a trip to Australia, stuff that makes you happy
5. Money to help others - both traditional charity and family gifts
You have plenty of money to do all of these things but you need to see the big picture to make sure that so that you can feel in control of the choices that you are making.
I would also suggest setting a separate savings account that you can put money into every month for helping others - that way when your family needs help you can have a better sense of whether you can afford it (because you already saved for it) and so you can give with less resentment since you know that you planned for it. If none needs it, then you either continue save up or gift it to more traditional charities or people outside of the family.
posted by metahawk at 11:56 AM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
1) What else should I be doing to ensure financial stability forever? 2) Is it weird that I don't have a strong desire to go buy stuff/do stuff/spend excessively?
The second question kind of answers the first. As you say, you may not be making $200K / year forever. But if you keep on living like somebody who makes $85K / year and owns their house outright (which is to say, living an extremely comfortable lifestyle) and you end up making $85 K / year, then you're living within your means with a huge pile saved up.
But if you ratchet up your spending to match your earnings, then you're in trouble when the earnings go south.
So just keep doing what you're doing. Except pay somebody to cut the grass and have less money in the savings account, like everybody else said.
posted by escabeche at 12:07 PM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The second question kind of answers the first. As you say, you may not be making $200K / year forever. But if you keep on living like somebody who makes $85K / year and owns their house outright (which is to say, living an extremely comfortable lifestyle) and you end up making $85 K / year, then you're living within your means with a huge pile saved up.
But if you ratchet up your spending to match your earnings, then you're in trouble when the earnings go south.
So just keep doing what you're doing. Except pay somebody to cut the grass and have less money in the savings account, like everybody else said.
posted by escabeche at 12:07 PM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
You'll like the blog Mr Money Mustache, he's in a very similar situation and has a very similar attitude as you do. There are also member forums and lots of recommendations about using/investing that money responsibly.
And no, it's not weird to not want to spend it/shop... that actually sounds really healthy. Contentedness is underrated in western culture. If we made more, we'd just save it - we have everything we want too.
posted by jrobin276 at 1:50 PM on March 23, 2014
And no, it's not weird to not want to spend it/shop... that actually sounds really healthy. Contentedness is underrated in western culture. If we made more, we'd just save it - we have everything we want too.
posted by jrobin276 at 1:50 PM on March 23, 2014
Congratulations on making choices that have led to the financial secure position you're now in. Financial security isn't all that matters in the world, but it's helpful.
I'd just like to say that as far as hiring others to do your yard work and housework, keep in mind that you're giving these people the opportunity to earn a living - that is their field of work and they're happy to have the job. Seriously - it's certainly not a negative, no matter how you look at it. Just hire reliable people at the market rate (plus a little, if they do a good job) and be glad you can.
Best to you.
posted by aryma at 5:26 PM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'd just like to say that as far as hiring others to do your yard work and housework, keep in mind that you're giving these people the opportunity to earn a living - that is their field of work and they're happy to have the job. Seriously - it's certainly not a negative, no matter how you look at it. Just hire reliable people at the market rate (plus a little, if they do a good job) and be glad you can.
Best to you.
posted by aryma at 5:26 PM on March 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I am envious of you, you're doing great!
If I had a ton of money and a bunch of questions as to the best things to do with it to preserve my wealth, I'd see a CPA/Financial Advisor. Someone who can help me make the best tax and savings decisions.
You want a fee based person, not someone who is selling something.
A good CPA is a couple hundred an hour, but their knowledge is invaluable.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:46 AM on March 24, 2014
If I had a ton of money and a bunch of questions as to the best things to do with it to preserve my wealth, I'd see a CPA/Financial Advisor. Someone who can help me make the best tax and savings decisions.
You want a fee based person, not someone who is selling something.
A good CPA is a couple hundred an hour, but their knowledge is invaluable.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:46 AM on March 24, 2014
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posted by chaiminda at 6:46 AM on March 23, 2014 [11 favorites]