DIY Dog Training disaster? Can we raise a well behaved dog on our own?
December 4, 2013 8:02 AM Subscribe
Partner and I are first time dog owners getting our puppy this January. Some unfortunate circumstances have come up and now we may need to change our plans for dog training and I need to know if that is ok or not?
Partner and I are both (generally) intelligent, competent people doing STEM graduate work. We've been planning for years to get a pup, our pup is born and paid for, he'll be coming home with us in January. Pup is a welsh pembroke corgi. Partner grew up with a dog, this will be the first dog for me.
We've been reading and learning everything we can (monks of new skete, victoria stilwell, loads of other stuff) and I really feel like we've got the basics down in terms of basic puppy training, socializing, and housebreaking. Between the two of us, we'll be with the pup nearly 24/7 for the first 3 months. And with our flexible schedules and no children now or ever, we will have a lot of time for interaction with our dog, and he will be the most important thing in our lives besides each other. He has in crate and playpen set up in our study, where we spend nearly all our time at home.
Our breeder, from the start, has really strongly pushed the idea that we should pay for a certain trainer. His training costs nearly $1000. We met the trainer and he seems really great, some mixed yelp reviews about him, but the recommendations from other people we've met who've used him have been very good too. So since the beginning, we've been planning to use our tax return on this trainer even though he is very expensive.
Only now we've had some major unexpected medical expenses come up, and we need that tax return money to pay doctor bills. Of course, all interactions with your dog are training them, but now we are going to need to do the formal training to. We'll have at least 20-30 minutes to dedicate to this every weeknight, and several hours each day on the weekends.
I need a reality check: is this a disaster in the making? How possible (or likely) is it that two dedicated people can raise a pup into a well behaved adult dog without a professional trainer? Should we go into (more) credit card debt to get a professional trainer? Did you manage raise a dog well without a professional trainer? What resources should we be looking at?
Partner and I are both (generally) intelligent, competent people doing STEM graduate work. We've been planning for years to get a pup, our pup is born and paid for, he'll be coming home with us in January. Pup is a welsh pembroke corgi. Partner grew up with a dog, this will be the first dog for me.
We've been reading and learning everything we can (monks of new skete, victoria stilwell, loads of other stuff) and I really feel like we've got the basics down in terms of basic puppy training, socializing, and housebreaking. Between the two of us, we'll be with the pup nearly 24/7 for the first 3 months. And with our flexible schedules and no children now or ever, we will have a lot of time for interaction with our dog, and he will be the most important thing in our lives besides each other. He has in crate and playpen set up in our study, where we spend nearly all our time at home.
Our breeder, from the start, has really strongly pushed the idea that we should pay for a certain trainer. His training costs nearly $1000. We met the trainer and he seems really great, some mixed yelp reviews about him, but the recommendations from other people we've met who've used him have been very good too. So since the beginning, we've been planning to use our tax return on this trainer even though he is very expensive.
Only now we've had some major unexpected medical expenses come up, and we need that tax return money to pay doctor bills. Of course, all interactions with your dog are training them, but now we are going to need to do the formal training to. We'll have at least 20-30 minutes to dedicate to this every weeknight, and several hours each day on the weekends.
I need a reality check: is this a disaster in the making? How possible (or likely) is it that two dedicated people can raise a pup into a well behaved adult dog without a professional trainer? Should we go into (more) credit card debt to get a professional trainer? Did you manage raise a dog well without a professional trainer? What resources should we be looking at?
Wow. You are really overthinking this. The vast, vast majority of well behaved adult dogs were just raised by ordinary people and have never received formal training.
posted by jayder at 8:14 AM on December 4, 2013 [53 favorites]
posted by jayder at 8:14 AM on December 4, 2013 [53 favorites]
Unless your dog has some kind of problem (which you won't really find out until you've had him home for a while) you absolutely do not need $1000 of one-on-one training for your dog. This is doubly so given how much you've already investing in learning about dogs, and the time that you'll have to spend with the pup when he comes home.
Look into group classes, any big box pet stores near you should have them, as well as any larger kennel/grooming places. If anything the group classes are better than one-on-one training because you want your dog to learn how to behave around other dogs.
I would especially see if there are any puppy play times available near you.
And don't forget dog parks!
posted by sparklemotion at 8:15 AM on December 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Look into group classes, any big box pet stores near you should have them, as well as any larger kennel/grooming places. If anything the group classes are better than one-on-one training because you want your dog to learn how to behave around other dogs.
I would especially see if there are any puppy play times available near you.
And don't forget dog parks!
posted by sparklemotion at 8:15 AM on December 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Don't worry about it. I know lots of people with great dogs, and none of them paid for trainers.
posted by torisaur at 8:15 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by torisaur at 8:15 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
It is indeed possible to train a dog on your own, in my experience.
It's like - a dog trainer will definitely ensure your dog's manners are 100% correct, the same way as going to seminars run by Miss Manners would. But lots of people teach their kids manners on their own just fine, and people can do the same for their dogs. Without a trainer, your dog would be the equivalent of a person who may get confused about which fork to use for their salad, but they'd still know that you're supposed to say "excuse me" when you burp or something.
You're fine.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:16 AM on December 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
It's like - a dog trainer will definitely ensure your dog's manners are 100% correct, the same way as going to seminars run by Miss Manners would. But lots of people teach their kids manners on their own just fine, and people can do the same for their dogs. Without a trainer, your dog would be the equivalent of a person who may get confused about which fork to use for their salad, but they'd still know that you're supposed to say "excuse me" when you burp or something.
You're fine.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:16 AM on December 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
What are your goals for the dog? Are you looking for an show dog of championship caliber? If not, then your guy is ripping you off. $1000 bucks for training, that's a ton of money for basic training that you could get for less then $200 elsewhere. I'm not talking about Petco either but a good trainer (which by the way may not be the expensive guy, a good trainer not only knows the dog training but also relates to your personality and goals- we went through 2 before finding our lady). Also for puppies, socialization is more important then training but you should do both but honestly, unless this guy makes AKC champions, it sounds like an expensive ripoff.
Dogs can be trained at almost any point in their life IF the training is done right. Interesting story about this, remember the dog from Fraiser? The dog was returned I believe 8 times to a shelter as "untrainable", until one person found the type of training (positive reinforcement, do not use anyone who recommends choke collars anymore) that works for the dog. They made millions off the dog - so training can occur anytime if your willing to put in the work but honestly, your dog isn't going to turn into Cujo just because you delayed training or didn't use the expensive guy.
Enjoy your puppy, find some puppy socialization classes and love your dog while saving cash. On a side note, I really curious as to why this person feels that in the oversatured dog training market ( most states do not require any type of formal training or licensing to become a trainer), then can get $1000 for a puppy class. Also, I would recommend a trainer before attempting it on your own as a good trainer will correct your training mistakes ie half hour training sessions are WAY to long for daily training.
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:16 AM on December 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Dogs can be trained at almost any point in their life IF the training is done right. Interesting story about this, remember the dog from Fraiser? The dog was returned I believe 8 times to a shelter as "untrainable", until one person found the type of training (positive reinforcement, do not use anyone who recommends choke collars anymore) that works for the dog. They made millions off the dog - so training can occur anytime if your willing to put in the work but honestly, your dog isn't going to turn into Cujo just because you delayed training or didn't use the expensive guy.
Enjoy your puppy, find some puppy socialization classes and love your dog while saving cash. On a side note, I really curious as to why this person feels that in the oversatured dog training market ( most states do not require any type of formal training or licensing to become a trainer), then can get $1000 for a puppy class. Also, I would recommend a trainer before attempting it on your own as a good trainer will correct your training mistakes ie half hour training sessions are WAY to long for daily training.
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:16 AM on December 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
You most certainly do not need to shell out $1000 to train a Corgi. If you were getting a notoriously wild and crazy breed like an Akita, I'd say it MAY be worth it, but Corgis are so easy and laid back. You've already read training books. You'll be fine. Stop overthinking it.
Oh, and do not spend every waking hour of the day with your puppy. Make sure it has some alone time to avoid separation anxiety for the inevitable time when you and your partner need to both be away from the dog.
posted by Gonestarfishing at 8:17 AM on December 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
Oh, and do not spend every waking hour of the day with your puppy. Make sure it has some alone time to avoid separation anxiety for the inevitable time when you and your partner need to both be away from the dog.
posted by Gonestarfishing at 8:17 AM on December 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
Good lord, it's a corgi, not a velociraptor. The breeder's just finding ways to add revenue streams, in this case in the form of kickbacks from the trainer.
Lots of people have perfectly good dogs - great dogs, even - and it's generally because they put the time in themselves to work with their dogs.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:19 AM on December 4, 2013 [45 favorites]
Lots of people have perfectly good dogs - great dogs, even - and it's generally because they put the time in themselves to work with their dogs.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:19 AM on December 4, 2013 [45 favorites]
I want to second or third that socialization is, perhaps, more important for puppies than "formal" training (unless you want to show your puppy in conformation? Which you should probably mention). Exposing your pup to a wide-range of safe people, animals, and stimuli is half the battle.
posted by muddgirl at 8:24 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 8:24 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
...and even for conformation, puppy classes from reputable trainers can be found for much less than a thousand dollars.
posted by muddgirl at 8:25 AM on December 4, 2013
posted by muddgirl at 8:25 AM on December 4, 2013
At some point we will also get a dog (not puppy) and I would definitely pay for classes, since I want a dog that will walk and not tug, heel, come when called, follow proper commands etc. And the earlier you train your pup, the better, but you can teach an old dog new tricks.
BUT! $1k is a LOT of money. You don't need Cesar Milan, you need some general obedience. So I would sit with my partner and discuss what kind of dog you want - a cuddly member of the family dog, or a trained "we love you, but you are a dog" type dog. Discuss in detail how you want the dog to respond in given situations (on leash, off leash, in the home, where he'll sleep, strangers, back yard, in the car....) The most important part is that you and your partner are consistent in how you behave towards the dog, and that you can actually put all your reading into practice (and don't cave because uuuuuhhhhh he's so cuuuuuute!!!). You have to think like a dog, and think in terms of association and positive/negative reinforcement. Put your detailed plan together now, using all the information you've read. If you have a background in STEM the trick will be putting the theory into actual physical practice.
If you are getting the kind of results you want (accounting for puppyness), then great. Otherwise you can look around for a good trainer in your price range.
Btw, if you bought from a purebred then of course he's gonna recommend his (expensive) buddy to train the dog. That's just how referrals work. And they think like those in the purebred industry, dog shows and what have you. If he's just going to be a regular Fido then you'll do fine.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:29 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
BUT! $1k is a LOT of money. You don't need Cesar Milan, you need some general obedience. So I would sit with my partner and discuss what kind of dog you want - a cuddly member of the family dog, or a trained "we love you, but you are a dog" type dog. Discuss in detail how you want the dog to respond in given situations (on leash, off leash, in the home, where he'll sleep, strangers, back yard, in the car....) The most important part is that you and your partner are consistent in how you behave towards the dog, and that you can actually put all your reading into practice (and don't cave because uuuuuhhhhh he's so cuuuuuute!!!). You have to think like a dog, and think in terms of association and positive/negative reinforcement. Put your detailed plan together now, using all the information you've read. If you have a background in STEM the trick will be putting the theory into actual physical practice.
If you are getting the kind of results you want (accounting for puppyness), then great. Otherwise you can look around for a good trainer in your price range.
Btw, if you bought from a purebred then of course he's gonna recommend his (expensive) buddy to train the dog. That's just how referrals work. And they think like those in the purebred industry, dog shows and what have you. If he's just going to be a regular Fido then you'll do fine.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:29 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Good lord, do not go into debt to pay for dog training for a new puppy. You're already reading all the books you should be reading. You'll be fine.
However, the breeder's pushiness with this trainer would give me pause. I am biased against breeders in general (don't shop, adopt!), but the 'good' ones are not in it to make money (and often don't make any money). Perhaps this is not the most reputable person to be dealing with.
"Rescue" doesn't have to mean abused adult mixed-breed; check out the Corgi Rescue Network.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:35 AM on December 4, 2013 [13 favorites]
However, the breeder's pushiness with this trainer would give me pause. I am biased against breeders in general (don't shop, adopt!), but the 'good' ones are not in it to make money (and often don't make any money). Perhaps this is not the most reputable person to be dealing with.
"Rescue" doesn't have to mean abused adult mixed-breed; check out the Corgi Rescue Network.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:35 AM on December 4, 2013 [13 favorites]
I live in a part of the country (the DC metro area) that has a very high cost of living. EVERYTHING costs more here than in other parts of the country. Yet, when I got my dog, I paid only $150 for a group training class. It was an excellent class, taught by a positive-only trainer. That class was really valuable to me, because even though I read all the books also, and had a dog when I was a kid that I trained diligently, I still benefited from the stuff I learned from the trainer. You're posting anonymously, but if you feel comfortable and live in my area, memail me and I'll send you a link to the organization I went to.
One secret of this is that the trainer is really training you, not the dog -- you're the one that trains the dog, all the time while you are with it at home. Also, as others have said, even if you skip going to a training class, look into puppy socialization classes (sometimes called "puppy parties"). Those will be absolutely worth your money. Very little training takes place at those, but your pup will get to interact with a million other puppies, and as you know that early exposure is super important for your dog's development.
posted by OrangeDisk at 8:37 AM on December 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
One secret of this is that the trainer is really training you, not the dog -- you're the one that trains the dog, all the time while you are with it at home. Also, as others have said, even if you skip going to a training class, look into puppy socialization classes (sometimes called "puppy parties"). Those will be absolutely worth your money. Very little training takes place at those, but your pup will get to interact with a million other puppies, and as you know that early exposure is super important for your dog's development.
posted by OrangeDisk at 8:37 AM on December 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
No, you don't need a professional trainer for your dog. Like others have said, read a few books and you'll be fine. The most important thing about training your dog isn't paying thousands for some specific trainer or going to a certain class or reading a certain book. It's consistency. Spending a little bit of time each day to reinforce stuff.
PS- having a dog is FUN---that sounds like maybe the one thing you forgot about
posted by aviatrix at 8:47 AM on December 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
PS- having a dog is FUN---that sounds like maybe the one thing you forgot about
posted by aviatrix at 8:47 AM on December 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
We were first time dog-owners with a very submissive, shy 6 month old rescue. All we did was an inexpensive basic obedience course at the animal shelter and the rest we did on our own. It turned out fine.
I will say though I think the most important training in the formal course wasn't for the dog, it was for the people. You and your partner can help one another behave in a way that is good for the dog (or you can't, in which case, consider couples therapy, or something).
posted by Good Brain at 8:51 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I will say though I think the most important training in the formal course wasn't for the dog, it was for the people. You and your partner can help one another behave in a way that is good for the dog (or you can't, in which case, consider couples therapy, or something).
posted by Good Brain at 8:51 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
You do not need a $1,000 trainer for a puppy destined to be a companion dog.
I do recommend group obedience classes if you can afford them. Like others have said, they are a fraction of what the other trainer costs. They also will help you meet other dog owners, aid with your dog's socialization, etc. I'd also recommend the occasional weekend puppy play session, something a group training place may also offer. This is also good for socialization and not quite as anarchic as a dog park for a small pup.
All that being said, if you just train bite inhibition and potty training, you'll still have a lovely pup as long as you include both dog and people socialization. If your dog starts to show any aggressive tendencies, then you will need to amp up on training to keep it under control. But a well socialized dog isn't likely to have a lot of trouble.
posted by rocketpup at 8:53 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I do recommend group obedience classes if you can afford them. Like others have said, they are a fraction of what the other trainer costs. They also will help you meet other dog owners, aid with your dog's socialization, etc. I'd also recommend the occasional weekend puppy play session, something a group training place may also offer. This is also good for socialization and not quite as anarchic as a dog park for a small pup.
All that being said, if you just train bite inhibition and potty training, you'll still have a lovely pup as long as you include both dog and people socialization. If your dog starts to show any aggressive tendencies, then you will need to amp up on training to keep it under control. But a well socialized dog isn't likely to have a lot of trouble.
posted by rocketpup at 8:53 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
How possible (or likely) is it that two dedicated people can raise a pup into a well behaved adult dog without a professional trainer?
I have a 100% success rate with training 2 pups, 1 well-behaved adult rescue dog and 1 moderately tweaky adult shelter dog over the course of my lifetime. I never paid for a professional trainer.
They all knew the important stuff: sit, stay, come, give/drop it, plus how to walk on a leash without causing either of us discomfort....and that's about it. I trained them to be buddies, not show dogs or agility competitors or actors. The most formal thing I ever did was let my dogs play with my family's dogs.
It's all about consistency. And even if you make a mistake (I temporarily turned the tweaky one into a whiny beggar because I fed him table scraps while I ate) you can fix it (I stopped table-feeding him and if he does get the occasional scrap, it's put into his bowl. Now he knows all his food comes from the bowl. And if the stray whine escapes his cute nose, I tell him No and he stops.)
I promise you, you'll be fine. Have fun with your pup!
posted by kimberussell at 9:02 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have a 100% success rate with training 2 pups, 1 well-behaved adult rescue dog and 1 moderately tweaky adult shelter dog over the course of my lifetime. I never paid for a professional trainer.
They all knew the important stuff: sit, stay, come, give/drop it, plus how to walk on a leash without causing either of us discomfort....and that's about it. I trained them to be buddies, not show dogs or agility competitors or actors. The most formal thing I ever did was let my dogs play with my family's dogs.
It's all about consistency. And even if you make a mistake (I temporarily turned the tweaky one into a whiny beggar because I fed him table scraps while I ate) you can fix it (I stopped table-feeding him and if he does get the occasional scrap, it's put into his bowl. Now he knows all his food comes from the bowl. And if the stray whine escapes his cute nose, I tell him No and he stops.)
I promise you, you'll be fine. Have fun with your pup!
posted by kimberussell at 9:02 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Congratulations on preparing to help raise a well behaved dog from puppyhood! Agreeing with the people who say that a $1000 trainer isn't necessary -- and also agree that good puppy socialization is invaluable. A 4-6 week session tends to run $70-$90 in my urban area (Minneapolis).
Here are some easy but valuable resources to help you help your puppy have good household manners, and comprehensive socialization:
A high-quality book (with realistic and logical advice is: Dr. Sophia Yin's Perfect Puppy in 7 Days: How to Start Your Puppy off Right. (The instructions apply for the whole puppy growth process, but it focuses on getting a few things right immediately to prevent having to solve any house-training/chewing/socialization snafus).
Free: Read Sophia Yin's blog - she includes very detailed videos that can help you out a lot.
Also free: a fantastic comprehensive and free resource is The Dog Trainer on Quick & Dirty Tips. Her podcasts/audio recordings are really well-spoken, real-world, and thorough.
And the ever valuable "Before" and "After You Get Your Puppy" books. Ian Dunbar makes these books available free because of the huge number of poorly raised puppies who are turned in at shelters each & every day because of their bad socialization and/or manners. Dogstartdaily.com also has great videos and blog posts on raising puppies.
posted by apennington at 9:04 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Here are some easy but valuable resources to help you help your puppy have good household manners, and comprehensive socialization:
A high-quality book (with realistic and logical advice is: Dr. Sophia Yin's Perfect Puppy in 7 Days: How to Start Your Puppy off Right. (The instructions apply for the whole puppy growth process, but it focuses on getting a few things right immediately to prevent having to solve any house-training/chewing/socialization snafus).
Free: Read Sophia Yin's blog - she includes very detailed videos that can help you out a lot.
Also free: a fantastic comprehensive and free resource is The Dog Trainer on Quick & Dirty Tips. Her podcasts/audio recordings are really well-spoken, real-world, and thorough.
And the ever valuable "Before" and "After You Get Your Puppy" books. Ian Dunbar makes these books available free because of the huge number of poorly raised puppies who are turned in at shelters each & every day because of their bad socialization and/or manners. Dogstartdaily.com also has great videos and blog posts on raising puppies.
posted by apennington at 9:04 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
I got my first dog at the age of 40 and trained him myself to multiple championship titles in dog sports. He is beautifully behaved and knows scores of difficult tricks. I knew nothing--ZERO--about dog training before getting him. I never had any obedience classes. There's a lot more available online now than there was when I started. Some trainers and behaviorists that are highly regarded among serious dog trainers: Patricia McConnell, Sophia Yin, Kathy Sdao, Denise Fenzi. Monks of New Skete, not so much--many of their methods are held in very low regard in modern dog training. Cesar Milan, NO.
posted by HotToddy at 9:05 AM on December 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 9:05 AM on December 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
Also, I am so exceedingly skeptical of any training that costs $1000 right out of the box. Can you link us to the recommended trainer?
posted by HotToddy at 9:07 AM on December 4, 2013
posted by HotToddy at 9:07 AM on December 4, 2013
1. You don't even have the dog yet, so there can't possibly be a disaster. You haven't actually messed anything up yet. Relax!
2. Why don't you just train the dog yourselves?
3. In my experience, dog trainers don't need to be reserved months in advance and paid a large lump sum. It's probably fine for you to wait to get the puppy, see how the first few weeks go, and then look into a trainer if you feel you can't handle it.
4. You are of course free to hire any trainer you want. You don't have to go with their guy.
5. My dog is a backyard mutt who, chances are, his original family didn't hire a $1000 trainer to raise him up. He sits, stays, comes, is housebroken and crate trained, and does all the usual dog stuff. He's not aggressive, is well socialized, the whole bit. He basically came trained when I adopted him from the shelter.
posted by Sara C. at 9:14 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
2. Why don't you just train the dog yourselves?
3. In my experience, dog trainers don't need to be reserved months in advance and paid a large lump sum. It's probably fine for you to wait to get the puppy, see how the first few weeks go, and then look into a trainer if you feel you can't handle it.
4. You are of course free to hire any trainer you want. You don't have to go with their guy.
5. My dog is a backyard mutt who, chances are, his original family didn't hire a $1000 trainer to raise him up. He sits, stays, comes, is housebroken and crate trained, and does all the usual dog stuff. He's not aggressive, is well socialized, the whole bit. He basically came trained when I adopted him from the shelter.
posted by Sara C. at 9:14 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
It all sounds like a bit of a scam to me. You have pre ordered a puppy which makes me think you have spent a lot of money for a particular breed/bloodline, which I have no problems with, but to me it sounds like a kick back scam. If they will pay x'000's for the dog how much will they pay for training and how much does they "trainer" kick back to the breeder for getting you to go there.
A puppy doesn't need thousands of dollars worth of training, you sound like kind caring people that have the time to work with the dog you'll be fine. All you need is patience and a pocket full of treats. I would recommend some sort of puppy classes, yes even the ones they do at Petsmart, because socialisation is super important for a happy dog. I have 2 dogs with socialization issues because they weren't around other dogs/people at a young age so are scared of everyone. I ended up taking them to agility classes to give them self confidence, but even then the classes only cost $13 a session and the trainer for a group class and $35 for a private session, and the trainer was amazing. Within 6 weeks my fear biting dog that would freak out at even the sight of another dog was a new dog.
What I am saying here is it cost me $250 or so for training for a serious behavioural issue. $1000 bucks to teach your dog to come, sit and stay is way over the top. You can train your dog yourself with no worries, and if for some reason you do have problems, you find a nice local trainer that you feel confident with and you pay per session to work on the problem. If you are nervous about your dog training skills, find a nice group class somewhere and you and your husband go and think you are training your dog while the trainer is actually teaching you the basics of how to train your dog. They are a fun thing to do with your dog, they will give you the basic skills you need so you feel confident training your dog and they cost way less than $1000.
posted by wwax at 9:27 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
A puppy doesn't need thousands of dollars worth of training, you sound like kind caring people that have the time to work with the dog you'll be fine. All you need is patience and a pocket full of treats. I would recommend some sort of puppy classes, yes even the ones they do at Petsmart, because socialisation is super important for a happy dog. I have 2 dogs with socialization issues because they weren't around other dogs/people at a young age so are scared of everyone. I ended up taking them to agility classes to give them self confidence, but even then the classes only cost $13 a session and the trainer for a group class and $35 for a private session, and the trainer was amazing. Within 6 weeks my fear biting dog that would freak out at even the sight of another dog was a new dog.
What I am saying here is it cost me $250 or so for training for a serious behavioural issue. $1000 bucks to teach your dog to come, sit and stay is way over the top. You can train your dog yourself with no worries, and if for some reason you do have problems, you find a nice local trainer that you feel confident with and you pay per session to work on the problem. If you are nervous about your dog training skills, find a nice group class somewhere and you and your husband go and think you are training your dog while the trainer is actually teaching you the basics of how to train your dog. They are a fun thing to do with your dog, they will give you the basic skills you need so you feel confident training your dog and they cost way less than $1000.
posted by wwax at 9:27 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
My wife and I adopted a dog last January, and we had some difficulty with his behavior for a bit. We went to a six-week, $150 group class that stressed positive reinforcement and he's now a great dog. $1000 seems like WAY too much for simple behavior training/socialization.
As for other resources, I really enjoyed Ian Dunbar's books and videos at dogstardaily.com. I learned after we had started the class that the trainer we were seeing had studied with him when she was starting out.
I'd also like to +1 all the folks who recommended adopting from a shelter or rescue organization rather than buying from a breeder.
Relax, you sound like a conscientious, attentive future puppy owner. I'm sure you'll do fine.
posted by LouMac at 9:42 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
As for other resources, I really enjoyed Ian Dunbar's books and videos at dogstardaily.com. I learned after we had started the class that the trainer we were seeing had studied with him when she was starting out.
I'd also like to +1 all the folks who recommended adopting from a shelter or rescue organization rather than buying from a breeder.
Relax, you sound like a conscientious, attentive future puppy owner. I'm sure you'll do fine.
posted by LouMac at 9:42 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
The biggest thing for dog training is consistency. You can get that by talking with your partner, or being told to be consistent by a dog trainer. Make sure you and your partner agree on how to train your dog, and if that internal consistency isn't enough, find some group classes (assuming you didn't get the rare Demon Corgi who is hell-bent on destroying all that is around him, in which case a one-on-one session is best).
My wife and I adopted a dog from a shelter who has some behavioral issues that we weren't able to address on our own, and we've paid $65 per hour for a few one-on-one trainings with a professional trainer. Mind you, our dog came with her issues - she wasn't a puppy, who are way more energetic, but are generally more malleable and easier to train, as they haven't learned any habits yet.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:44 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
My wife and I adopted a dog from a shelter who has some behavioral issues that we weren't able to address on our own, and we've paid $65 per hour for a few one-on-one trainings with a professional trainer. Mind you, our dog came with her issues - she wasn't a puppy, who are way more energetic, but are generally more malleable and easier to train, as they haven't learned any habits yet.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:44 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
My answer wasn't terribly helpful, it's just that my trainer - whose day job is handling animals, and volunteers with the humane society - was only $60/hour, and while you can hire a trainer to take your dog away and train them, you're just paying to train the dog to live with the trainer, not you. Real trainers train YOU, you train the dog as part of your everyday life.
Since you've got thumbs and literacy and higher-order information recognition, you don't need a lot of training hours.
I do advocate PetSmart/PetCo puppy kindergarten to introduce you and the dog to training, learning in the presence of other dogs, socialization, car rides, and distractions (the store itself). It's one of the few places you can take a dog indoors, which is good experience, and their training classes are all positive-reinforcement only; you can't really hurt anything that way, and they mostly learn to stop chewing their leash and your shoelaces for 30 seconds to pay attention to something else. (You may also make some neighborhood friends with puppies this way.)
After that, you can work at home with a trainer for an hour every so often.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:58 AM on December 4, 2013
Since you've got thumbs and literacy and higher-order information recognition, you don't need a lot of training hours.
I do advocate PetSmart/PetCo puppy kindergarten to introduce you and the dog to training, learning in the presence of other dogs, socialization, car rides, and distractions (the store itself). It's one of the few places you can take a dog indoors, which is good experience, and their training classes are all positive-reinforcement only; you can't really hurt anything that way, and they mostly learn to stop chewing their leash and your shoelaces for 30 seconds to pay attention to something else. (You may also make some neighborhood friends with puppies this way.)
After that, you can work at home with a trainer for an hour every so often.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:58 AM on December 4, 2013
Trainers don't train your dog, they train you to train your dog.
Training take, more than anything else, consistency. Unless the trainer is going to live in your house with you, they aren't going to provide that, you are. It really sounds like you're on top of how to go about training the dog so I don't think you really need a fancy trainer.
Spending that much on a trainer only seems like a good idea if you are planning on entering your pup in obedience competitions. If that were the case, you'd probably be the trainer charging all that money, not the one paying out.
The most important early training that you do is really about socialization. Making sure the pup learns that the world is full of totally safe people, dogs, and thing while they are still young and fearless puppies is the most important thing you can do. The early training is more about making training easier later on. You can combine the two with some group training classes. It's hard for your dog to learn that he or she still needs to listen to commands and pay attention to you while other dogs are around if they have never been in that situation before. That is something you can get out of a group class that you can't get one on one.
Tons of people have been WAY less prepared to raise a puppy and their dogs are still really well trained. From everything else in your description you are already way more prepared than you need to be, the trainer is major overkill.
I will reinforce one thing about puppies though (that I though was overkill and learned the hard way isn't), especially when they start teething, if you can't directly see the dog and he or she isn't in the crate/puppy-proofed area, you can safely assume that they are getting into trouble/chewing up your. You'll be surprised at how much damage they can cause in less than 30 seconds. You really do need to watch them 100% of the time that they aren't in their crate or other puppy-proofed area. Even then, you should check on them often.
posted by VTX at 9:59 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Training take, more than anything else, consistency. Unless the trainer is going to live in your house with you, they aren't going to provide that, you are. It really sounds like you're on top of how to go about training the dog so I don't think you really need a fancy trainer.
Spending that much on a trainer only seems like a good idea if you are planning on entering your pup in obedience competitions. If that were the case, you'd probably be the trainer charging all that money, not the one paying out.
The most important early training that you do is really about socialization. Making sure the pup learns that the world is full of totally safe people, dogs, and thing while they are still young and fearless puppies is the most important thing you can do. The early training is more about making training easier later on. You can combine the two with some group training classes. It's hard for your dog to learn that he or she still needs to listen to commands and pay attention to you while other dogs are around if they have never been in that situation before. That is something you can get out of a group class that you can't get one on one.
Tons of people have been WAY less prepared to raise a puppy and their dogs are still really well trained. From everything else in your description you are already way more prepared than you need to be, the trainer is major overkill.
I will reinforce one thing about puppies though (that I though was overkill and learned the hard way isn't), especially when they start teething, if you can't directly see the dog and he or she isn't in the crate/puppy-proofed area, you can safely assume that they are getting into trouble/chewing up your
posted by VTX at 9:59 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Agree with everyone that $1000 is a total scam and you don't need it. Go spend a tenth of that on a puppy kindergarten class ($95 for 6 sessions at the place where I take my problem dog for problem-dog training and have vastly improved her problems for well under $1000 over the last 2 years.)
posted by juliapangolin at 10:09 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by juliapangolin at 10:09 AM on December 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
This breeder is either getting paid for the referral, or is related somehow to the trainer; pay no heed.
Save the money for replacing all the shoes, socks, underwear, furniture, fixtures, the cleaning supplies, the vet bills...
posted by Sunburnt at 10:11 AM on December 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Save the money for replacing all the shoes, socks, underwear, furniture, fixtures, the cleaning supplies, the vet bills...
posted by Sunburnt at 10:11 AM on December 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yeaaaah, I wouldn't go with a $1000 trainer for a puppy.
If two years down the line the dog is a terror to behold, then sure. I can understand a $1000 for a dog that would otherwise be put down. (Even then, that price seems steep.)
You've read how dogs work. You've probably studied way more than most dog owners end up reading. You're saying to yourself you're going to do 100% the work required....realistically, you'll probably do 25% of the training you think you will and your dog will still be a fine canine citizen.
Don't skimp on socialization! You can have a kind, derpy dog that loves everyone even if they don't know how to come. Sure he jumps up and eats everything off the floor, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. (Re: "The Parent's Dog" syndrome. Almost every one I know has a parent with this kind of dog. My parent's Belgian is the derpiest derp who ever derped, but he just wants to 'hug' you and make you fall over so he can lick you.) It is a lot harder to train a fearful, aggressive dog because he hasn't been exposed to enough things and feels that his only recourse is to bite.
posted by aggyface at 10:16 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
If two years down the line the dog is a terror to behold, then sure. I can understand a $1000 for a dog that would otherwise be put down. (Even then, that price seems steep.)
You've read how dogs work. You've probably studied way more than most dog owners end up reading. You're saying to yourself you're going to do 100% the work required....realistically, you'll probably do 25% of the training you think you will and your dog will still be a fine canine citizen.
Don't skimp on socialization! You can have a kind, derpy dog that loves everyone even if they don't know how to come. Sure he jumps up and eats everything off the floor, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. (Re: "The Parent's Dog" syndrome. Almost every one I know has a parent with this kind of dog. My parent's Belgian is the derpiest derp who ever derped, but he just wants to 'hug' you and make you fall over so he can lick you.) It is a lot harder to train a fearful, aggressive dog because he hasn't been exposed to enough things and feels that his only recourse is to bite.
posted by aggyface at 10:16 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would take the teachings in the Monks of New Skete book with a grain of salt. While there are some good tips to be skimmed from the book, the constant advice of physically reprimanding and/or 'shaking' a dog to teach them 'No' has been debunked (as an effective method) by every other book I've read (many of them books written by service dog trainers).
But I digress, I think your pup will turn out just fine without a fancy-pants (expensive) trainer. Search around for some classes--the socialization they offer is great and they're generally only $100 for each level (ie: Puppy, Beginner, Intermediate, ect). Even taking just a puppy course would be helpful as it will teach you how to teach your pup--and you and your partner seem capable of running with it once you learn the ropes.
Good luck with the new pup. :)
posted by stubbehtail at 10:41 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
But I digress, I think your pup will turn out just fine without a fancy-pants (expensive) trainer. Search around for some classes--the socialization they offer is great and they're generally only $100 for each level (ie: Puppy, Beginner, Intermediate, ect). Even taking just a puppy course would be helpful as it will teach you how to teach your pup--and you and your partner seem capable of running with it once you learn the ropes.
Good luck with the new pup. :)
posted by stubbehtail at 10:41 AM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
You'll do great on your own and with perhaps a 4-6 week dog training class. I have a 2 year old Maltese that we got as a puppy. I read all the books (my favs were the New Skete ones for various reasons) and I felt I had a pretty good grasp on the potty training, etc. However, I did want her socialized and I wanted an outsider's input in her training. So, we signed up for a Petsmart class and it was great! I learned A LOT. I really learned how to communicate with my dog. She's my best little buddy. Very well behaved (except for humping the cat whenever she can). The class cost $75.00 with the option to go on to more advanced classes. But we just stopped after the basics were learned (sit, stay, drop it, etc.).
If, after you've done a few weeks of dog training classes (from Petsmart or other place) and you aren't satisfied you could then go for the uber-expensive trainer. But, I don't think that's necessary - for a companion dog, you'll get a ton of useful and great training tips from the Petsmart (or whatever) classes.
And I agree with others that say that really you're the one being trained. I really learned how to communicate with my dog in a way that was easy and fun for both of us.
Have fun!!
posted by Sassyfras at 11:41 AM on December 4, 2013
If, after you've done a few weeks of dog training classes (from Petsmart or other place) and you aren't satisfied you could then go for the uber-expensive trainer. But, I don't think that's necessary - for a companion dog, you'll get a ton of useful and great training tips from the Petsmart (or whatever) classes.
And I agree with others that say that really you're the one being trained. I really learned how to communicate with my dog in a way that was easy and fun for both of us.
Have fun!!
posted by Sassyfras at 11:41 AM on December 4, 2013
I paid $100 for 6 classes at Petco with my obnoxious little rescue terrier. You don't need to spend $1000. If the breeder is pushy, just take down the guy's name, smile and nod, and move on. The breeder probably gets a commission.
posted by radioamy at 12:07 PM on December 4, 2013
posted by radioamy at 12:07 PM on December 4, 2013
I don't think you need this trainer. We took ours to a $120 puppy class, managed to teach sit/stay/come/shake before we started the class, but it was still good for socialization. Then lots of time at the dog park, walks/training, on the lead around people at outside cafes. The effort of training was much less than I expected - it's not something we plan anymore, but something that happens while interacting with the dog.
posted by quercus23 at 3:24 PM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by quercus23 at 3:24 PM on December 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 8:13 AM on December 4, 2013 [5 favorites]