Considering divorce... or depression
November 24, 2013 7:05 AM Subscribe
Married almost 3 years, together for over 4 years. My husband is a funny, arrogant genius, and when I first met him he was very kind to me. Right after we got married, things changed...
He's become much more aloof, at times straight-up belligerent, and even yells at me for little things I do, like the way I eat my food (crazy nitpicky things, I'm not a messy/gross eater at all, and this is just an example). We went to counseling on and off. He was very good at "getting better", and then we'd taper off the therapy, only to have these behaviors start up again in a few months. I'm on the third round of this now and I feel like I'm already ready to give up.
Last night he flipped out because I used something that I was unaware he didn't want to share with me, even though he had shared it with guests earlier in the week. While it is true that I did not ask for permission to use it... we share things 99.99% of the time, so it was surprising for me to hear his reaction. I apologized, but the whole exchange felt like it echoed our current struggles. I do something that, to me, seems totally normal but to him is just outrageous and horrible.
Overall, he is not a very sensitive person. I don't think I'm overly sensitive, but it definitely seems like he really doesn't care about what I'm thinking or feeling at all, or what my reaction will be, when he says/does things. This is something we've gone over in therapy in great lengths that never seems to quite stick with him. We've had long discussions about this and many arguments culminating in a discussion about him not thinking before saying/doing things.
Part of me is wondering if he even likes me anymore. He's come to hate my family simply for the fact that I come from a lower class background than him. My family is incredibly loving and supportive, but they don't have a lot of money and that is reflected in their way of life. I'm also a first generation college student who is definitely not as well-educated and book smart as he is, and I think that frustrates him and other times he uses it as an ego boost (with me feeling like crap as a result). Sex is also relatively infrequent, despite the fact that I think I'm the more attractive objectively as well as in better shape than I've ever been.
This all circles back and makes me feel awful. I constantly feel on edge, feel guilty, feel like shit about myself. I'm tired all the time and I wonder if it's worth fighting for. I never thought I'd be considering divorce, but I feel like either road is dark for a while and I'm wondering if it's best to just save myself.
Have you gotten through a similar rough patch in your marriage? What has helped? Do you have any wise marital advice that might be appropriate? We're in our 30s, no kids. I'm tired of walking on eggshells and feeling like crap. Help.
He's become much more aloof, at times straight-up belligerent, and even yells at me for little things I do, like the way I eat my food (crazy nitpicky things, I'm not a messy/gross eater at all, and this is just an example). We went to counseling on and off. He was very good at "getting better", and then we'd taper off the therapy, only to have these behaviors start up again in a few months. I'm on the third round of this now and I feel like I'm already ready to give up.
Last night he flipped out because I used something that I was unaware he didn't want to share with me, even though he had shared it with guests earlier in the week. While it is true that I did not ask for permission to use it... we share things 99.99% of the time, so it was surprising for me to hear his reaction. I apologized, but the whole exchange felt like it echoed our current struggles. I do something that, to me, seems totally normal but to him is just outrageous and horrible.
Overall, he is not a very sensitive person. I don't think I'm overly sensitive, but it definitely seems like he really doesn't care about what I'm thinking or feeling at all, or what my reaction will be, when he says/does things. This is something we've gone over in therapy in great lengths that never seems to quite stick with him. We've had long discussions about this and many arguments culminating in a discussion about him not thinking before saying/doing things.
Part of me is wondering if he even likes me anymore. He's come to hate my family simply for the fact that I come from a lower class background than him. My family is incredibly loving and supportive, but they don't have a lot of money and that is reflected in their way of life. I'm also a first generation college student who is definitely not as well-educated and book smart as he is, and I think that frustrates him and other times he uses it as an ego boost (with me feeling like crap as a result). Sex is also relatively infrequent, despite the fact that I think I'm the more attractive objectively as well as in better shape than I've ever been.
This all circles back and makes me feel awful. I constantly feel on edge, feel guilty, feel like shit about myself. I'm tired all the time and I wonder if it's worth fighting for. I never thought I'd be considering divorce, but I feel like either road is dark for a while and I'm wondering if it's best to just save myself.
Have you gotten through a similar rough patch in your marriage? What has helped? Do you have any wise marital advice that might be appropriate? We're in our 30s, no kids. I'm tired of walking on eggshells and feeling like crap. Help.
What are are describing sounds at best like a bad personality match, and at worst, verbal and emotional abuse on the part of your partner. In that case, couples counseling doesn't really help.
Have you tried individual therapy to work this stuff out for clarity? Or maybe considered a temporary separation, two weeks, to take a breather and let things calm down so you can figure out what you want?
I did go through something similar, down to many of the details you describe, and it did not work out favorably and it got worse (escalated to physical abuse and cops being called). It really sucks and no one is justified with that kind of behavior and it usually can't be changed.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:17 AM on November 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
Have you tried individual therapy to work this stuff out for clarity? Or maybe considered a temporary separation, two weeks, to take a breather and let things calm down so you can figure out what you want?
I did go through something similar, down to many of the details you describe, and it did not work out favorably and it got worse (escalated to physical abuse and cops being called). It really sucks and no one is justified with that kind of behavior and it usually can't be changed.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:17 AM on November 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
I suspect you know the answer to what your next actions should be but maybe aren't quite ready to take them.
Having spent time in relationships where, like you, I walked on eggshells, I know the feeling. Here's the thing I've learned: people change ONLY when they want to/see the benefit of doing so. He's not an idiot and knows that he can change (and has, for a while) but going back to his old behavior suits him (for whatever reason).
That's all you need to know to make your decision - this will not change for him because he doesn't see the need to do that. You can't make someone see the need if they choose not to.
All you can do is ask "What do *I* want?" and "can this relationship supply that?". My guess is no or you wouldn't be asking.
There are no magic pills to make things better. There is you being clear about what you need and whether this relationship can give you that as it stands today.
Wishing you well.
posted by Mysticalchick at 7:18 AM on November 24, 2013 [7 favorites]
Having spent time in relationships where, like you, I walked on eggshells, I know the feeling. Here's the thing I've learned: people change ONLY when they want to/see the benefit of doing so. He's not an idiot and knows that he can change (and has, for a while) but going back to his old behavior suits him (for whatever reason).
That's all you need to know to make your decision - this will not change for him because he doesn't see the need to do that. You can't make someone see the need if they choose not to.
All you can do is ask "What do *I* want?" and "can this relationship supply that?". My guess is no or you wouldn't be asking.
There are no magic pills to make things better. There is you being clear about what you need and whether this relationship can give you that as it stands today.
Wishing you well.
posted by Mysticalchick at 7:18 AM on November 24, 2013 [7 favorites]
What you are describing is verbal and emotional abuse. You have a right to live your life without constantly worrying how your normal, reasonable actions could lead to unreasonable reactions from the person who is supposed to love and support you.
posted by theweasel at 7:18 AM on November 24, 2013 [41 favorites]
posted by theweasel at 7:18 AM on November 24, 2013 [41 favorites]
This sounds like my parents, and let me say: for the love of God, work this out or split before you have any kids. This kind of behavior is just about the most efficient way to screw up your kids possible.
posted by selfnoise at 7:20 AM on November 24, 2013 [28 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 7:20 AM on November 24, 2013 [28 favorites]
I wasn't married to someone like this, but I lived with someone like this once (even down to the class differences). In my experience, I hit the same wall after four years--why do I need this in my life?
He was gaslighting me, btw. Something I couldn't even recognize until I got out. Your husband may be smart, but I bet you are too.
If it's permission you need to divorce him, GO. Go forth and prosper. It won't be easy, but you will be able to breathe on the other side, and you will remember all the ways that you are magical. And then, after your head is your head again, you can go find someone who knows how to care for and empathize with you. There are smart people plenty capable of this.
This man you describe, no. Not gonna get better. You need to take care of you.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 7:21 AM on November 24, 2013 [19 favorites]
He was gaslighting me, btw. Something I couldn't even recognize until I got out. Your husband may be smart, but I bet you are too.
If it's permission you need to divorce him, GO. Go forth and prosper. It won't be easy, but you will be able to breathe on the other side, and you will remember all the ways that you are magical. And then, after your head is your head again, you can go find someone who knows how to care for and empathize with you. There are smart people plenty capable of this.
This man you describe, no. Not gonna get better. You need to take care of you.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 7:21 AM on November 24, 2013 [19 favorites]
He's pissed at life. He dislikes himself. It has nothing to do with you. He has his own work to do.
Since he dislikes himself so much he's probably trying to get you to hate him too. Sounds strange but that's what miserable types do.
Walking on eggshells in a marriage is horrible. I don't have any good advice. Nothing will improve until he is willing to do the work to grow up.
posted by Fairchild at 7:21 AM on November 24, 2013 [25 favorites]
Since he dislikes himself so much he's probably trying to get you to hate him too. Sounds strange but that's what miserable types do.
Walking on eggshells in a marriage is horrible. I don't have any good advice. Nothing will improve until he is willing to do the work to grow up.
posted by Fairchild at 7:21 AM on November 24, 2013 [25 favorites]
15 years ago, I was briefly married to a guy who was a total dirtball starting the day after the wedding. I didn't use the microwave the approved fashion... My wise marital advice is 'run.' You don't want your life poisoned by your association with an asshole. And by your description, your husband definitely qualifies as one. There is just no point to your relationship. Relationships are meant to exist to improve and enhance your quality of life, not worsen it.
posted by kmennie at 7:22 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by kmennie at 7:22 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
A relationship should be, 95% of the time, where you go to escape or help with the undue pressures of life. It shouldn't be the main pressure of your life.
I think it's time for you to go.
posted by xingcat at 7:23 AM on November 24, 2013 [66 favorites]
I think it's time for you to go.
posted by xingcat at 7:23 AM on November 24, 2013 [66 favorites]
He was very good at "getting better", and then we'd taper off the therapy, only to have these behaviors start up again in a few months.
This is what does it for me. He doesn't take responsibility for his actions; he just does what he needs to skate by at the time. I am not one who believes people never change, but if he was going to change you might see backsliding but there would be a general upward trend.
I'm so sorry. The good thing is that you still have your self-esteem and you see things clearly enough to articulate them here. I am afraid that if you stay with this guy you will get involved in a shame and isolation spiral and get progressively more bought into his bullshit. Because it is bullshit.
posted by BibiRose at 7:24 AM on November 24, 2013 [7 favorites]
This is what does it for me. He doesn't take responsibility for his actions; he just does what he needs to skate by at the time. I am not one who believes people never change, but if he was going to change you might see backsliding but there would be a general upward trend.
I'm so sorry. The good thing is that you still have your self-esteem and you see things clearly enough to articulate them here. I am afraid that if you stay with this guy you will get involved in a shame and isolation spiral and get progressively more bought into his bullshit. Because it is bullshit.
posted by BibiRose at 7:24 AM on November 24, 2013 [7 favorites]
Came in to say the exact same thing as selfnoise. Kids will make it that much harder to get out, and he'll treat them the same way he treats you.
posted by oinopaponton at 7:25 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by oinopaponton at 7:25 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah I was with this guy. BFFs for 3 years, got married, he turned into an abusive asshole (emotionally). That's what you've got here. Emotionally abusive asshole.
Mine blamed me for everything, going so far as to say he only cheated on me because I drove him to cheating (with no explanation of what I did even).
I thought my guy was "the one" and was confused as hell when he changed because I thought I knew him so well. Well, sometimes people change. It's often big life events like marriage that change them.
He's changed. He's not going to un-change. He is who he is, and he was preventing you from seeing that before. Now you've seen it. What are you waiting around for?
(In my situation, I got lucky and he decided he wanted a divorce about 3 months in. I was young and stupid in love, and it would have lasted a lot longer if he hadn't decided he'd fallen out of love with me. That divorce is the best thing that happened in that marriage.)
posted by DoubleLune at 7:31 AM on November 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
Mine blamed me for everything, going so far as to say he only cheated on me because I drove him to cheating (with no explanation of what I did even).
I thought my guy was "the one" and was confused as hell when he changed because I thought I knew him so well. Well, sometimes people change. It's often big life events like marriage that change them.
He's changed. He's not going to un-change. He is who he is, and he was preventing you from seeing that before. Now you've seen it. What are you waiting around for?
(In my situation, I got lucky and he decided he wanted a divorce about 3 months in. I was young and stupid in love, and it would have lasted a lot longer if he hadn't decided he'd fallen out of love with me. That divorce is the best thing that happened in that marriage.)
posted by DoubleLune at 7:31 AM on November 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think that whole "gets better for a little while then backslides" thing is a precursor to refusing therapy in the future. He'll argue that it didn't work last time so what's the point of trying again. I also think that if you threaten divorce, he'll suddenly try a lot harder to "be better" and then backslide all over again.
A relationship shouldn't be like this. It can be a lot better. Just not with this guy. Even if it doesn't get any worse, do you want to spend the rest of your married life with someone who treats you badly?
Being married to someone is not a good reason to stay married to them.
posted by Solomon at 7:32 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
A relationship shouldn't be like this. It can be a lot better. Just not with this guy. Even if it doesn't get any worse, do you want to spend the rest of your married life with someone who treats you badly?
Being married to someone is not a good reason to stay married to them.
posted by Solomon at 7:32 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
You've tried and tried. You have mixed emotions about being in this marriage, but it's safe to say that you'd only want to stay if he stopped this behavior. Let me point out that you've done three rounds of therapy, and he hasn't changed. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So I feel safe in saying, he's where he is and it isn't going to change.
Given that he treats you with contempt, why does he want to be married to you?
BTW, one partner being contemptuous of the other is the #1 predictor of divorce.
You have MY permission to end this marriage. You deserve better. He should try and find someone with whom he is a better fit. I don't care how smart, beautiful or high class she is, I'm pretty sure, he'll still have issues with her.
After three attempts at therapy, he's not modified his behavior, he is abusive to you.
I promise you that the day you file and move out, you will have the BIGGEST smile on your face and you'll be so relieved.
Good luck to you.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:34 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
Given that he treats you with contempt, why does he want to be married to you?
BTW, one partner being contemptuous of the other is the #1 predictor of divorce.
You have MY permission to end this marriage. You deserve better. He should try and find someone with whom he is a better fit. I don't care how smart, beautiful or high class she is, I'm pretty sure, he'll still have issues with her.
After three attempts at therapy, he's not modified his behavior, he is abusive to you.
I promise you that the day you file and move out, you will have the BIGGEST smile on your face and you'll be so relieved.
Good luck to you.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:34 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
i'm betting crap like this :
"yells at me for little things I do, like the way I eat my food (crazy nitpicky things, I'm not a messy/gross eater at all"
is related to this :
"He's come to hate my family simply for the fact that I come from a lower class background than him."
a lot of your post sounds like him trying to "correct" what he perceives as lower class things in your behavior. this is a crock of shit and you don't need to put up with it. marriage doesn't have to be like this. i've been married nearly four years (together for six) and i can count on one hand the number of times we've been frustrated at each other for more than an hour (and nearly all of them have been exhaustion related).
posted by nadawi at 7:34 AM on November 24, 2013 [9 favorites]
"yells at me for little things I do, like the way I eat my food (crazy nitpicky things, I'm not a messy/gross eater at all"
is related to this :
"He's come to hate my family simply for the fact that I come from a lower class background than him."
a lot of your post sounds like him trying to "correct" what he perceives as lower class things in your behavior. this is a crock of shit and you don't need to put up with it. marriage doesn't have to be like this. i've been married nearly four years (together for six) and i can count on one hand the number of times we've been frustrated at each other for more than an hour (and nearly all of them have been exhaustion related).
posted by nadawi at 7:34 AM on November 24, 2013 [9 favorites]
One piece of relationship advice that I think is invaluable is "Don't think 'would I be happy if this behaviour changed?' but rather 'would I be happy if this behaviour never changed?'" If someone told you that the way things are today is how they will be for the next 40 years do you think you'd be happy for that to be your life story?
The other thing to think about is how invested he is in making things better. If you told him that you were considering divorce, would he put his all into saving things? You deserve a relationship where both parties prioritise it and do everything in their power to make the other person happy. If you feel that he will occasionally make an effort but then return to a state whereby you feel like crap, then maybe you need to think about accepting that he isn't meeting your needs and won't ever be who you want him to be with you. I'm really sorry because its heartbreaking to think your future is clear and planned out and then to feel so uncertain and unhappy. Seconding individual therapy to help you work through all these questions and emotions. Be kind to yourself.
posted by billiebee at 7:37 AM on November 24, 2013 [21 favorites]
The other thing to think about is how invested he is in making things better. If you told him that you were considering divorce, would he put his all into saving things? You deserve a relationship where both parties prioritise it and do everything in their power to make the other person happy. If you feel that he will occasionally make an effort but then return to a state whereby you feel like crap, then maybe you need to think about accepting that he isn't meeting your needs and won't ever be who you want him to be with you. I'm really sorry because its heartbreaking to think your future is clear and planned out and then to feel so uncertain and unhappy. Seconding individual therapy to help you work through all these questions and emotions. Be kind to yourself.
posted by billiebee at 7:37 AM on November 24, 2013 [21 favorites]
I'm so sorry. This sounds rough for you both. I'm pretty hardcore pro-marriage and against divorce, so this is likely to be a different perspective than what other posters will offer.
We don't have a ton of context here, so it's hard to give advice. In the spirit of working it out, I might gently suggest that you - since you're an active agent here and he does seem to be trapped in his own emotions from what you describe here - start fighting for the relationship.
First, it doesn't sound like you're going to get the security you want as an individual (which is a natural and healthy desire) from this relationship, so I'd suggest start building a network of female friends you can rely on for coffee, friendship, and security as a person. This comes with the caveat that the rough patches in your marriage stay private and not open for discussion with them. I think if you have some female friends to spend some time with, perhaps develop some other hobbies, you may begin to differentiate more as a person and lean a little less on your husband for security when he's obviously going through some things of his own.
Second, your marriage. Again, we don't have much detail, so here's what I've got. Do you know the story of the young bride who hates her mother-in-law and tries to poison her while acting loving and kind, and then comes to realize she loves her mother-in-law once her mother-in-law begins to respond to the "fake" love and kindness? It's one of my favorite stories. Have you tried just acting as if your husband is the best man ever, the salt of the earth, your sun and stars, treating him with kindness and respect and love even when he does you a slight, telling the world what a wonderful man he is? You'd be surprised how much people tend to live up to the expectations set for them.
You say this:
I think that frustrates him and other times he uses it as an ego boost (with me feeling like crap as a result).
and
This all circles back and makes me feel awful. I constantly feel on edge, feel guilty, feel like shit about myself. I'm tired all the time and I wonder if it's worth fighting for. I never thought I'd be considering divorce, but I feel like either road is dark for a while and I'm wondering if it's best to just save myself.
While I completely understand - it sounds like a very, very difficult position you're in - I wonder if you, differentiating a little, could focus on the marriage and a little less on how you feel. If you don't go to the marriage for security, but contain that within yourself, and put the needs of the marriage (now, not his needs, but the needs of the marriage) above your own feelings, it may be salvageable. I would focus a little less on how he makes you feel (you already know that) and a little more on how you can make the marriage better. You both seem to have understandably drifted into a me-and-you dynamic, with unmet needs and frustrations, but there's a third person - the relationship - that is beyond both you and him, and if he won't fight for the relationship, you have to.
Third, I'm no expert but it sounds possible he has some sort of untreated mental issues, possibly? Have you researched this at all?
Fourth, relationship/marriage books. There are a ton of resources out there, some good, some fluff, but don't be afraid to give those a try and see what works for you. You are not the first wife to have an insensitive and emotional husband, and many couples have worked through situations like these. You're not alone.
I wish you both happiness.
posted by Unangenehm at 7:41 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
We don't have a ton of context here, so it's hard to give advice. In the spirit of working it out, I might gently suggest that you - since you're an active agent here and he does seem to be trapped in his own emotions from what you describe here - start fighting for the relationship.
First, it doesn't sound like you're going to get the security you want as an individual (which is a natural and healthy desire) from this relationship, so I'd suggest start building a network of female friends you can rely on for coffee, friendship, and security as a person. This comes with the caveat that the rough patches in your marriage stay private and not open for discussion with them. I think if you have some female friends to spend some time with, perhaps develop some other hobbies, you may begin to differentiate more as a person and lean a little less on your husband for security when he's obviously going through some things of his own.
Second, your marriage. Again, we don't have much detail, so here's what I've got. Do you know the story of the young bride who hates her mother-in-law and tries to poison her while acting loving and kind, and then comes to realize she loves her mother-in-law once her mother-in-law begins to respond to the "fake" love and kindness? It's one of my favorite stories. Have you tried just acting as if your husband is the best man ever, the salt of the earth, your sun and stars, treating him with kindness and respect and love even when he does you a slight, telling the world what a wonderful man he is? You'd be surprised how much people tend to live up to the expectations set for them.
You say this:
I think that frustrates him and other times he uses it as an ego boost (with me feeling like crap as a result).
and
This all circles back and makes me feel awful. I constantly feel on edge, feel guilty, feel like shit about myself. I'm tired all the time and I wonder if it's worth fighting for. I never thought I'd be considering divorce, but I feel like either road is dark for a while and I'm wondering if it's best to just save myself.
While I completely understand - it sounds like a very, very difficult position you're in - I wonder if you, differentiating a little, could focus on the marriage and a little less on how you feel. If you don't go to the marriage for security, but contain that within yourself, and put the needs of the marriage (now, not his needs, but the needs of the marriage) above your own feelings, it may be salvageable. I would focus a little less on how he makes you feel (you already know that) and a little more on how you can make the marriage better. You both seem to have understandably drifted into a me-and-you dynamic, with unmet needs and frustrations, but there's a third person - the relationship - that is beyond both you and him, and if he won't fight for the relationship, you have to.
Third, I'm no expert but it sounds possible he has some sort of untreated mental issues, possibly? Have you researched this at all?
Fourth, relationship/marriage books. There are a ton of resources out there, some good, some fluff, but don't be afraid to give those a try and see what works for you. You are not the first wife to have an insensitive and emotional husband, and many couples have worked through situations like these. You're not alone.
I wish you both happiness.
posted by Unangenehm at 7:41 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I was in a marriage very similar to this -- and while I certainly contributed my part to the end of the relationship, for godsake the man ridiculed and belittled me for how I made scrambled eggs and made left-hand turns while driving. It took me a long time of therapy to accept that the relationship was emotionally abusive -- and that he had abused me, not the other way around like he'd made me think.
You frankly just need to get out. I am particularly concerned to read about his attitude for your family. My ex-husband alienated me from my immediate family through ridicule, gaslighting and isolation. Eventually, when I was at my lowest and loneliest and most scared, I felt like I couldn't turn to even my mother for help because, at all times, my ex insisted that we have a happy front. I'm afraid this might happen to you as well, so you need to find some support networks while you still can.
I think you should go to a therapist, alone. You might be surprised to hear someone else express shock or horror at the way he treats you, but pretend that you have a little sister who wrote this post. What would you tell her to do?
Next, consult a divorce attorney. Even if you're young with no kids and no major investments together, the victim of any sort of abuse should always have guidance when getting away from a relationship like this. (Trust me -- I'm still paying off the washer and dryer his new wife is washing his clothes in, but all things considered it's a pretty good deal.)
One other thing to consider -- he was nice to you when you were dating and then changed because he recognizes that you're a fantastic, beautiful woman, a great catch and probably a really hard worker. Deep inside, he feels inadequate to you and perhaps resents you for it. He tries to cure this resentment by browbeating and insulting you and exploiting your different backgrounds. He had to lure you in though, because the insecure part of him knew you're too good for him, and now he thinks you're stupid for falling for it all -- and he uses all of this twisted internal logic to feel superior to you. Now he's got you where he wants you and he's being an emotional abusive jerk to keep you there.
Please trust people when they say it doesn't have to be like this. It really, really doesn't and you are strong enough to change them. Please take steps to protect your heart before it gets any worse.
posted by mibo at 7:46 AM on November 24, 2013 [23 favorites]
You frankly just need to get out. I am particularly concerned to read about his attitude for your family. My ex-husband alienated me from my immediate family through ridicule, gaslighting and isolation. Eventually, when I was at my lowest and loneliest and most scared, I felt like I couldn't turn to even my mother for help because, at all times, my ex insisted that we have a happy front. I'm afraid this might happen to you as well, so you need to find some support networks while you still can.
I think you should go to a therapist, alone. You might be surprised to hear someone else express shock or horror at the way he treats you, but pretend that you have a little sister who wrote this post. What would you tell her to do?
Next, consult a divorce attorney. Even if you're young with no kids and no major investments together, the victim of any sort of abuse should always have guidance when getting away from a relationship like this. (Trust me -- I'm still paying off the washer and dryer his new wife is washing his clothes in, but all things considered it's a pretty good deal.)
One other thing to consider -- he was nice to you when you were dating and then changed because he recognizes that you're a fantastic, beautiful woman, a great catch and probably a really hard worker. Deep inside, he feels inadequate to you and perhaps resents you for it. He tries to cure this resentment by browbeating and insulting you and exploiting your different backgrounds. He had to lure you in though, because the insecure part of him knew you're too good for him, and now he thinks you're stupid for falling for it all -- and he uses all of this twisted internal logic to feel superior to you. Now he's got you where he wants you and he's being an emotional abusive jerk to keep you there.
Please trust people when they say it doesn't have to be like this. It really, really doesn't and you are strong enough to change them. Please take steps to protect your heart before it gets any worse.
posted by mibo at 7:46 AM on November 24, 2013 [23 favorites]
My husband is a funny, arrogant genius, and when I first met him he was very kind to me Oddly enough, this is how many people describe my ex-husband. Some of the things you describe which make him (unreasonably) angry toward you are similar to the things he used to pick at me over. His family was also rich, east coast and snobby and mine's. . . not.
Anyway. I divorced him because, frankly, I wanted to like myself (and he basically kept telling me I shouldn't) and I wanted to like my life (which I pretty much couldn't with all that picking at me all the time) and I don't accept people thinking the people I love are inferior. I mean, I could be an asshole to him, too--we were both young and figuring out how to be good people and good partners. But I did not feel like, underneath the being young and figuring out how to be a good person, figuring out his own insecurities, and figuring out how to be a good partner, that he actually liked me very much or was interested in my becoming the person I wanted to be, rather than the one he thought His Wife should be. You say you're in your 30's, so I doubt whether some of this is the assholishness of being young and insecure, but maybe?
My Ex seems (by the accounts of mutual friends, but I don't know, I haven't spoken to him in nearly 20 years) to have grown out of the worst of the arrogance and the worst of the controlling behaviors. But every so often, I look around at my life, or at myself in the mirror, and I thank god I did not spend the last 20 years being grist for the mill of his getting over himself and learning how to be kind and loving and less arrogant all the damn time.
Life is the long game---you have to decide which play is going to get you to where you want to be in five years or ten years. My Ex wouldn't commit to marriage counseling, so I left. Had I been in my 30's (instead of 24), I would have left more quickly. Your 30's should be brilliant--in terms of freedom and happiness, even more than your 20's when you're still in many ways a fumbling kid, and better than your 40's when it does honestly become harder to bounce back from things--it doesn't sound like yours are.
It also sounds like you have really tried. It's okay to fail at a marriage. It's really an unpleasant thing to do, but it's not a fatal failing. It's not a permanent, mark-you-as-a-bad-person for all eternity failing. You can walk away from a marriage with your dignity and your integrity intact. So if all you need is reassurance that several marriage counseling attempts later, it's okay to get divorced, this internet stranger says "Yup. That is a reasonable decision."
posted by crush-onastick at 7:46 AM on November 24, 2013 [13 favorites]
Anyway. I divorced him because, frankly, I wanted to like myself (and he basically kept telling me I shouldn't) and I wanted to like my life (which I pretty much couldn't with all that picking at me all the time) and I don't accept people thinking the people I love are inferior. I mean, I could be an asshole to him, too--we were both young and figuring out how to be good people and good partners. But I did not feel like, underneath the being young and figuring out how to be a good person, figuring out his own insecurities, and figuring out how to be a good partner, that he actually liked me very much or was interested in my becoming the person I wanted to be, rather than the one he thought His Wife should be. You say you're in your 30's, so I doubt whether some of this is the assholishness of being young and insecure, but maybe?
My Ex seems (by the accounts of mutual friends, but I don't know, I haven't spoken to him in nearly 20 years) to have grown out of the worst of the arrogance and the worst of the controlling behaviors. But every so often, I look around at my life, or at myself in the mirror, and I thank god I did not spend the last 20 years being grist for the mill of his getting over himself and learning how to be kind and loving and less arrogant all the damn time.
Life is the long game---you have to decide which play is going to get you to where you want to be in five years or ten years. My Ex wouldn't commit to marriage counseling, so I left. Had I been in my 30's (instead of 24), I would have left more quickly. Your 30's should be brilliant--in terms of freedom and happiness, even more than your 20's when you're still in many ways a fumbling kid, and better than your 40's when it does honestly become harder to bounce back from things--it doesn't sound like yours are.
It also sounds like you have really tried. It's okay to fail at a marriage. It's really an unpleasant thing to do, but it's not a fatal failing. It's not a permanent, mark-you-as-a-bad-person for all eternity failing. You can walk away from a marriage with your dignity and your integrity intact. So if all you need is reassurance that several marriage counseling attempts later, it's okay to get divorced, this internet stranger says "Yup. That is a reasonable decision."
posted by crush-onastick at 7:46 AM on November 24, 2013 [13 favorites]
I am not sure if you have seen this before, but here is the Violence Wheel which describes the different kinds of domestic abuse a person can experience. Also, his improvements after therapy may make a little more sense in the context of the cycle of violence. Don't let him convince you that any of his behavior is warranted or acceptable.
This all circles back and makes me feel awful. I constantly feel on edge, feel guilty, feel like shit about myself. I'm tired all the time and I wonder if it's worth fighting for.
His behavior is not normal married behavior. It is abuse and you don't have to suffer through it. Counseling will not make him change his mind about being abusive to you. And if you don't leave, expect it to get worse. He may start to alienate you from your friends and family so you feel like you have no one to ask for support if/when you do leave. With what you say about him belittling your family, I am not sure if he hasn't already started to do this.
You have tried to improve the situation. You said this is your third round of trying therapy. There is nothing left for you to do to try and improve the situation, besides chewing exactly the way he wants you to, not using things he'll share with other people that are off-limits for yourself etc. etc. And even that probably won't work.
From what you've said here, you seem to recognize your worth and that it does not match up to the way treats you. There are people out there who will treat you as the kind, intelligent, strong person you are. You don't deserve any less.
posted by sevenofspades at 8:07 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
This all circles back and makes me feel awful. I constantly feel on edge, feel guilty, feel like shit about myself. I'm tired all the time and I wonder if it's worth fighting for.
His behavior is not normal married behavior. It is abuse and you don't have to suffer through it. Counseling will not make him change his mind about being abusive to you. And if you don't leave, expect it to get worse. He may start to alienate you from your friends and family so you feel like you have no one to ask for support if/when you do leave. With what you say about him belittling your family, I am not sure if he hasn't already started to do this.
You have tried to improve the situation. You said this is your third round of trying therapy. There is nothing left for you to do to try and improve the situation, besides chewing exactly the way he wants you to, not using things he'll share with other people that are off-limits for yourself etc. etc. And even that probably won't work.
From what you've said here, you seem to recognize your worth and that it does not match up to the way treats you. There are people out there who will treat you as the kind, intelligent, strong person you are. You don't deserve any less.
posted by sevenofspades at 8:07 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
I'm in a similar situation. (One of our recent blowups was because I hadn't put the coffee cups away correctly.)
We've tried therapy together and it works for awhile, then he goes back to yelling and making me feel terrible. I'm in individual therapy now and it's great. My therapist has encouraged me to think through my options. If I had to leave, right now, what would I do? Where would I stay? etc. It seemed insurmountable at first (I make much less than he does and have more debt) but I figured out the logistics. Just knowing that option was there has made me much more confident.
Second, I am becoming very consistent about not allowing him to speak to me contemptuously, call me names, etc. I say "I will not be spoken to this way" and then I have left the room and left the house. In the moment he will say I'm overreacting, etc, but he comes around and makes more promises. I don't quite trust him yet, but now I do trust myself to protect myself from him.
Third, I am making his getting individual therapy a prerequisite to us getting couples therapy (again). He is taking out his frustration with work etc on me and he needs to figure out how to properly deal with his stress. One thing I tell him is that while it's OK to be upset, even with something I've done, it's not OK to take it out on me. Evidently he didn't learn how to express himself as a kid, but that's not my problem; he can learn that as an adult through therapy.
I have chosen to stay and do the best I can for now but I am warily watching him.
Good luck to you. You can do this.
posted by fantoche at 8:16 AM on November 24, 2013 [23 favorites]
We've tried therapy together and it works for awhile, then he goes back to yelling and making me feel terrible. I'm in individual therapy now and it's great. My therapist has encouraged me to think through my options. If I had to leave, right now, what would I do? Where would I stay? etc. It seemed insurmountable at first (I make much less than he does and have more debt) but I figured out the logistics. Just knowing that option was there has made me much more confident.
Second, I am becoming very consistent about not allowing him to speak to me contemptuously, call me names, etc. I say "I will not be spoken to this way" and then I have left the room and left the house. In the moment he will say I'm overreacting, etc, but he comes around and makes more promises. I don't quite trust him yet, but now I do trust myself to protect myself from him.
Third, I am making his getting individual therapy a prerequisite to us getting couples therapy (again). He is taking out his frustration with work etc on me and he needs to figure out how to properly deal with his stress. One thing I tell him is that while it's OK to be upset, even with something I've done, it's not OK to take it out on me. Evidently he didn't learn how to express himself as a kid, but that's not my problem; he can learn that as an adult through therapy.
I have chosen to stay and do the best I can for now but I am warily watching him.
Good luck to you. You can do this.
posted by fantoche at 8:16 AM on November 24, 2013 [23 favorites]
Note: some of this might sound harsh, but I don't mean it that way at all. I've found myself falling into patterns similar to the ones you're describing in the past, and my advice is based on that experience. I just hope that some of it is useful.
The key is to take a big step back and keep yourself grounded in your own common-sense, rather than being pulled into the dynamic he's (probably unintentionally) creating. Stop walking on eggshells. If he yells at you for something you know is ridiculous and unwarranted, don't apologize and don't act in any was as if he's being reasonable. Stand your ground. Believe in yourself and your own intelligence. Tell him, "You're being unreasonable. No, I don't want to argue with you, I'm telling you a fact. I don't know what's going on with you, but you need to figure it out." Tell him, "I'm not an idiot. Don't talk to me that way."
If this is going to change, it'll be because he decides his behavior is unkind and untenable and does some hard work on himself. That's much more likely to happen if you refuse to pretend that any of his behavior is reasonable, that his motives are understandable, or that you deserve the way he's treating you. He's getting his damage all over you and that's an awful way to behave.
It's up to you how much time and energy you want to put into this marriage. If it's worth it to you to stick it out a while longer, then go for it. If not, I personally think that's totally fair and reasonable of you -- if you decide to stay with him to give him one last chance to figure his shit out, that's a kindness on your part, not an obligation.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:17 AM on November 24, 2013 [12 favorites]
The key is to take a big step back and keep yourself grounded in your own common-sense, rather than being pulled into the dynamic he's (probably unintentionally) creating. Stop walking on eggshells. If he yells at you for something you know is ridiculous and unwarranted, don't apologize and don't act in any was as if he's being reasonable. Stand your ground. Believe in yourself and your own intelligence. Tell him, "You're being unreasonable. No, I don't want to argue with you, I'm telling you a fact. I don't know what's going on with you, but you need to figure it out." Tell him, "I'm not an idiot. Don't talk to me that way."
If this is going to change, it'll be because he decides his behavior is unkind and untenable and does some hard work on himself. That's much more likely to happen if you refuse to pretend that any of his behavior is reasonable, that his motives are understandable, or that you deserve the way he's treating you. He's getting his damage all over you and that's an awful way to behave.
It's up to you how much time and energy you want to put into this marriage. If it's worth it to you to stick it out a while longer, then go for it. If not, I personally think that's totally fair and reasonable of you -- if you decide to stay with him to give him one last chance to figure his shit out, that's a kindness on your part, not an obligation.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:17 AM on November 24, 2013 [12 favorites]
In case my above response was tl;dr, I just want to stress that your magic words are "I won't be talked to that way." Every. Single. Time.
posted by fantoche at 8:22 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by fantoche at 8:22 AM on November 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
If you want to stay married, or at least give it a try, I think Narrative Priorities has it.
Stand up for yourself. Tell him he is being a jerk. Draw boundaries and defend them with all you got.
If he ratchets up the grief, then you might want to consider a trial separation.
But I have the idea if you change how you react for a long enough period of time, he might back off.
No guarantees here, but worth a shot.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:39 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
Stand up for yourself. Tell him he is being a jerk. Draw boundaries and defend them with all you got.
If he ratchets up the grief, then you might want to consider a trial separation.
But I have the idea if you change how you react for a long enough period of time, he might back off.
No guarantees here, but worth a shot.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:39 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
(I am of the opinion that people CAN change. They just have to want to. Your totally unselfaware dude here may or may not want to.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:40 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:40 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
No matter how much you change your behaviour, you will never be able to do things right. This guy is impossible to please and it will only get worse. Trust me, I know- I used to live with a guy who, as an example, got angry at me because he didn't like the way I chopped tomatoes. Do yourself a favour and get a divorce. You don't want to live like that. It's not actually about what you're doing- it's about him using you as a scapegoat for his own shit. GTFO.
posted by windykites at 8:51 AM on November 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by windykites at 8:51 AM on November 24, 2013 [4 favorites]
I can relate, my marriage was much the same down to the perceived class difference. And he would get better for a while and really wanted kids so we stayed married and had children. Things could be good or good enough; I tried to ignore the heavy sigh when he had to rearrange how I loaded the dish washer or his family's shitty attitude to my family. It retrospect it was death by a thousand tiny cuts. Through all this I believe he really loved me, or loved me as much as he was capable of loving anyone.
But in times of stress, he was a disaster. There is no way I could count on him having my back. When there were bumps in the road I could never tell if I'd get blamed or when I'd get blamed. No amount of therapy changed the basic premise, he just became more aware of doing it and better at hiding his anger and/or contempt. To this day I still have visceral reactions to situations that I worry will blow up. And they don't. When I am with happy couples I am amazed at the lack of anger. STILL, seven years later. And the kids...
Anyway, this bit: Last night he flipped out because I used something that I was unaware he didn't want to share with me, even though he had shared it with guests earlier in the week, That's contemptuous. No one treats the person they love like that.
Look into a divorce and give yourself time to heal.
posted by readery at 8:53 AM on November 24, 2013 [11 favorites]
But in times of stress, he was a disaster. There is no way I could count on him having my back. When there were bumps in the road I could never tell if I'd get blamed or when I'd get blamed. No amount of therapy changed the basic premise, he just became more aware of doing it and better at hiding his anger and/or contempt. To this day I still have visceral reactions to situations that I worry will blow up. And they don't. When I am with happy couples I am amazed at the lack of anger. STILL, seven years later. And the kids...
Anyway, this bit: Last night he flipped out because I used something that I was unaware he didn't want to share with me, even though he had shared it with guests earlier in the week, That's contemptuous. No one treats the person they love like that.
Look into a divorce and give yourself time to heal.
posted by readery at 8:53 AM on November 24, 2013 [11 favorites]
Why are you so thoroughly convinced that this man is somehow categorically and in all other objective measures better than are you?
Could it be his insidious ways of cutting down your sense of self-worth? If a person contributes to a net negative impact on your well-being, and he certainly does, it is best to be kind to yourself and practice egress.
Life is far, far too short and long to spend it with people whom one does not like. I would not like this person as an acquaintance, let alone a life partner via marriage.
As we get older, hopefully our bullshit detector only becomes more and more honed, and this, your post, is your bullshit meter going off the scale.
The best way to raise self-esteem, according to a book by Edmund Bourne, is to consistently learn and practice meeting one's own needs.
Your needs are calling to you, and he's drowning out their transmission.
Any time a person, man lover whomever, cancels out your own transmissions to yourself, it is a toxic, unhealthy dynamic. I don't mean to be alarmist, but any time a person is cut off from him- or herself, it is a danger sign that something is awry.
I don't like him. I don't have to like him, because who cares what I think, but why do you like him? This is not accusatory. And I don't want to know. It's a question to pose to yourself.
But, beyond that: really? In your 30s, after surviving three decades of life, you are willing to compromise on anything that affects your well-being? It's not selfish. It's called basic respect, dignity, integrity as a human being.
A person's level of education is not a measure of their intelligence or their existential evolution. This man's level of the latter is negative, in the negatives.
You are intelligent. Until you realize that, people like him will always be able to manipulate you and throw you off balance.
Learning how to listen to and act on your transmissions to yourself, your stealthy communiques to yourself, will make them less communiques and more clear signals, and that is the beginning of finding true companionship. It's not to say love yourself. It's to say all of those things, invest in yourself.
It's your turn. As Diana Ross sang, let it rain because the rain ain't gonna hurt you. And let him go, although you know it won't be easy.
Be a kind, intelligent, self-respecting you. Be the best version of you. And respect yourself from the future. Figure out what that would look like, find bulwarks, and don't feel like you're a dummy. People you want around you will make you feel good and positive about yourself, not lesser. People you want around you do not diminish you, but add to your life.
Find ways to add to yours. Delete what doesn't.
Remember: options are always available to you. Remember: you get to choose. Remember: your loving family. And, remember yourself. Remind yourself of who you are.
This is said with love.
posted by simulacra at 9:03 AM on November 24, 2013 [12 favorites]
Could it be his insidious ways of cutting down your sense of self-worth? If a person contributes to a net negative impact on your well-being, and he certainly does, it is best to be kind to yourself and practice egress.
Life is far, far too short and long to spend it with people whom one does not like. I would not like this person as an acquaintance, let alone a life partner via marriage.
As we get older, hopefully our bullshit detector only becomes more and more honed, and this, your post, is your bullshit meter going off the scale.
The best way to raise self-esteem, according to a book by Edmund Bourne, is to consistently learn and practice meeting one's own needs.
Your needs are calling to you, and he's drowning out their transmission.
Any time a person, man lover whomever, cancels out your own transmissions to yourself, it is a toxic, unhealthy dynamic. I don't mean to be alarmist, but any time a person is cut off from him- or herself, it is a danger sign that something is awry.
I don't like him. I don't have to like him, because who cares what I think, but why do you like him? This is not accusatory. And I don't want to know. It's a question to pose to yourself.
But, beyond that: really? In your 30s, after surviving three decades of life, you are willing to compromise on anything that affects your well-being? It's not selfish. It's called basic respect, dignity, integrity as a human being.
A person's level of education is not a measure of their intelligence or their existential evolution. This man's level of the latter is negative, in the negatives.
You are intelligent. Until you realize that, people like him will always be able to manipulate you and throw you off balance.
Learning how to listen to and act on your transmissions to yourself, your stealthy communiques to yourself, will make them less communiques and more clear signals, and that is the beginning of finding true companionship. It's not to say love yourself. It's to say all of those things, invest in yourself.
It's your turn. As Diana Ross sang, let it rain because the rain ain't gonna hurt you. And let him go, although you know it won't be easy.
Be a kind, intelligent, self-respecting you. Be the best version of you. And respect yourself from the future. Figure out what that would look like, find bulwarks, and don't feel like you're a dummy. People you want around you will make you feel good and positive about yourself, not lesser. People you want around you do not diminish you, but add to your life.
Find ways to add to yours. Delete what doesn't.
Remember: options are always available to you. Remember: you get to choose. Remember: your loving family. And, remember yourself. Remind yourself of who you are.
This is said with love.
posted by simulacra at 9:03 AM on November 24, 2013 [12 favorites]
Also, this:
If a little voice in your head says, "Gee, maybe this relationship might not be such a good idea," it's because it's not a fucking good idea.posted by simulacra at 9:18 AM on November 24, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:58 PM on September 26 [23 favorites]
Your husband has taken all the control. You don't have to let him. I was married to someone who changed a lot after the wedding. He blamed me for all the problems in the relationship. etc., etc., and he eventually left me. Best gift he ever gave me, though it took years to figure that out.
I'm tired of walking on eggshells and feeling like crap. Help. As I read your post, I was thinking of the book Stop Walking on Eggshells, which I'm reading because it's recommended so often here. Read it. It's about how to behave with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder (is manipulative, unpredictable, volatile, etc.). I'm not diagnosing him, but the way you deal with someone like your husband should be the same.
Here's the other thing. He might get better, or he might get worse. Do you really want to continue this way of life? The last 6 months of my marriage, I changed my behavior, stopped arguing, paid less attention to promises and talk, paid more attention to his behavior. Paid more attention to what I wanted and needed in life, as well as what he wanted. He left. Even as a single parent, even though my ex- didn't pay child support, even though he sabotaged me as a parent, and made life difficult any way he could, my life got so much better.
You deserve respect, love and happiness. Is he capable of being with you on a way that makes those things possible for you? Think about what you really want to achieve in life, and if he can be someone who helps you have your life, as you help him achieve his.
posted by theora55 at 9:32 AM on November 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm tired of walking on eggshells and feeling like crap. Help. As I read your post, I was thinking of the book Stop Walking on Eggshells, which I'm reading because it's recommended so often here. Read it. It's about how to behave with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder (is manipulative, unpredictable, volatile, etc.). I'm not diagnosing him, but the way you deal with someone like your husband should be the same.
Here's the other thing. He might get better, or he might get worse. Do you really want to continue this way of life? The last 6 months of my marriage, I changed my behavior, stopped arguing, paid less attention to promises and talk, paid more attention to his behavior. Paid more attention to what I wanted and needed in life, as well as what he wanted. He left. Even as a single parent, even though my ex- didn't pay child support, even though he sabotaged me as a parent, and made life difficult any way he could, my life got so much better.
You deserve respect, love and happiness. Is he capable of being with you on a way that makes those things possible for you? Think about what you really want to achieve in life, and if he can be someone who helps you have your life, as you help him achieve his.
posted by theora55 at 9:32 AM on November 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
sevenofspades: His behavior is not normal married behavior.
Yes. I actually just came from church in which the sermon was about marriage, and the pastor made the point that the marriage relationship is where you should feel completely safe. "Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.", and all that. Your partner should be someone who has your back at all times and makes you feel safe.
You say that you are tired of walking on eggshells. You don't feel safe in your own marriage. I think that since previous couples therapy hasn't worked, that it is time for a trial separation at minimum.
I am so sorry for what you are going through.
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:36 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes. I actually just came from church in which the sermon was about marriage, and the pastor made the point that the marriage relationship is where you should feel completely safe. "Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.", and all that. Your partner should be someone who has your back at all times and makes you feel safe.
You say that you are tired of walking on eggshells. You don't feel safe in your own marriage. I think that since previous couples therapy hasn't worked, that it is time for a trial separation at minimum.
I am so sorry for what you are going through.
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:36 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
You seem like you have a lot going for you and a clear-headed sense of self esteem despite the stress and exhaustion of this situation. You're smart, you're taking care of your body, and you're brave enough to face the problems in your marriage. I can't tell you if you should get a divorce, but I think you have put in the work on the relationship, he has proved he's not willing/able to make longterm changes (3 strikes you're out, bro) and you deserve to be happy and not held back.
If I were in your shoes I would:
Go to therapy on my own and look at my options and which of those are truly acceptable. You can figure out if you truly do want to give this relationship any more chances or if you already have enough evidence to see he is not invested at the same level you are. Consider what benefit there would be, if any, to pursuing a trial separation and how you will react to his reaction when you bring up separation or divorce: maybe he will try to bargain with you and promise to work harder, maybe he will lash out and make you feel even worse about yourself. Your therapist can help you prepare for these scenarios and give you tools.
DEFINITELY consult an attorney to protect yourself from undue financial burden in the event of divorce. Maybe you don't expect him to turn vindictive in a divorce, but you also didn't expect him to turn aloof after your marriage. Does he have debt you could get shackled with, are there mortgages or loans or car payments you share? Even if you don't think so, consult an expert. Don't assume he will be cooperative or make the process easy. Hopefully he will, but he might not.
posted by dahliachewswell at 9:38 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
If I were in your shoes I would:
Go to therapy on my own and look at my options and which of those are truly acceptable. You can figure out if you truly do want to give this relationship any more chances or if you already have enough evidence to see he is not invested at the same level you are. Consider what benefit there would be, if any, to pursuing a trial separation and how you will react to his reaction when you bring up separation or divorce: maybe he will try to bargain with you and promise to work harder, maybe he will lash out and make you feel even worse about yourself. Your therapist can help you prepare for these scenarios and give you tools.
DEFINITELY consult an attorney to protect yourself from undue financial burden in the event of divorce. Maybe you don't expect him to turn vindictive in a divorce, but you also didn't expect him to turn aloof after your marriage. Does he have debt you could get shackled with, are there mortgages or loans or car payments you share? Even if you don't think so, consult an expert. Don't assume he will be cooperative or make the process easy. Hopefully he will, but he might not.
posted by dahliachewswell at 9:38 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
People can change. You know this because he changed after you two were married. This is who he wants to be. This is who he changed to become.
He knows what he has to do to be a good, loving, and respectful partner to you. You've been to counseling over and over to help direct his behavior in a way that won't be abusive or undermining. Bit, repeatedly, he's shown you that he prefers not to make these changes permanent. He prefers to treat you poorly. He prefers to hold you in low regard. He prefers to chip away at your sense of security and self confidence. He is showing you who he is and how he sees you. Believe him.
Please don't have a child with this man. He will damage those children terribly by treating them as he treats you.
You can leave and find someone who respects, loves, and treasures you. You need not walk on eggshells and wonder why your husband is cruel for the rest of your days.
posted by quince at 9:42 AM on November 24, 2013 [12 favorites]
He knows what he has to do to be a good, loving, and respectful partner to you. You've been to counseling over and over to help direct his behavior in a way that won't be abusive or undermining. Bit, repeatedly, he's shown you that he prefers not to make these changes permanent. He prefers to treat you poorly. He prefers to hold you in low regard. He prefers to chip away at your sense of security and self confidence. He is showing you who he is and how he sees you. Believe him.
Please don't have a child with this man. He will damage those children terribly by treating them as he treats you.
You can leave and find someone who respects, loves, and treasures you. You need not walk on eggshells and wonder why your husband is cruel for the rest of your days.
posted by quince at 9:42 AM on November 24, 2013 [12 favorites]
For what it is worth, my impression is you are a superior person to your husband and he does not deserve you. Not the other way around.
I am pro marriage and trying hard to make a marriage work, but I think a divorce is perfectly reasonable in your case. You have tried hard. And, there are no kids to be hurt.
If you still love him, or you just don't want to give up yet, you're going to have to be much more assertive. You have to check him, firmly, every time he dumps on you. I'm not sure it would work, but it might. It would at least change things.
Again, it would be perfectly reasonable to walk away instead. You should not need to be on guard ready to punch back against your own spouse all the time. Upping your assertiveness would be you going an extra mile, compensating for fucked up behavior on your husband's part, doing him a favor that he doesn't really deserve.
posted by mattu at 9:43 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am pro marriage and trying hard to make a marriage work, but I think a divorce is perfectly reasonable in your case. You have tried hard. And, there are no kids to be hurt.
If you still love him, or you just don't want to give up yet, you're going to have to be much more assertive. You have to check him, firmly, every time he dumps on you. I'm not sure it would work, but it might. It would at least change things.
Again, it would be perfectly reasonable to walk away instead. You should not need to be on guard ready to punch back against your own spouse all the time. Upping your assertiveness would be you going an extra mile, compensating for fucked up behavior on your husband's part, doing him a favor that he doesn't really deserve.
posted by mattu at 9:43 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this. Relationships don't have to be this way. Your marriage didn't hit a rough patch, it is abusive. I hope you leave this man and really look out for yourself and take care of yourself. You deserve to be with someone who cares about you and doesn't treat you with contempt and disdain. Go to a lawyer first and make sure your look out for your financial and legal rights.
posted by zdravo at 10:11 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by zdravo at 10:11 AM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think individual therapy would be a great place to explore your options.
And while I agree that you need to learn to stay grounded when he's being unreasonable, you get to decide what that looks like and you get to decide what's safe to say or not say. If telling him he's being unreasonable feels safe to you, great. If keeping silent feels safer, that's ok, too. You know him, we don't, and it's important that you keep yourself safe, emotionally and physically, even if it means coming across as "weak" or whatever to him. I'm not sure what his "flipping out" looks like, but especially if there is any component of physical threat to it (including breaking or throwing objects), then ignore anyone here who thinks they know exactly how you can solve the situation. Do whatever you think is safest, please. You know him, we don't.
Again, individual therapy for you would be a great place to learn how to get your feet solidly back under you so that you can make decisions from a place of strength. If there was a particular couple's counselor with whom you made a connection, you could contact them for referrals.
posted by jaguar at 10:13 AM on November 24, 2013
And while I agree that you need to learn to stay grounded when he's being unreasonable, you get to decide what that looks like and you get to decide what's safe to say or not say. If telling him he's being unreasonable feels safe to you, great. If keeping silent feels safer, that's ok, too. You know him, we don't, and it's important that you keep yourself safe, emotionally and physically, even if it means coming across as "weak" or whatever to him. I'm not sure what his "flipping out" looks like, but especially if there is any component of physical threat to it (including breaking or throwing objects), then ignore anyone here who thinks they know exactly how you can solve the situation. Do whatever you think is safest, please. You know him, we don't.
Again, individual therapy for you would be a great place to learn how to get your feet solidly back under you so that you can make decisions from a place of strength. If there was a particular couple's counselor with whom you made a connection, you could contact them for referrals.
posted by jaguar at 10:13 AM on November 24, 2013
Last night he flipped out because I used something that I was unaware he didn't want to share with me, even though he had shared it with guests earlier in the week. While it is true that I did not ask for permission to use it... we share things 99.99% of the time,
Just this bit is enough for me to advocate going your separate ways. You're MARRIED. You are not his roommate. You should not require permission to use his things from time to time and even then, there is absolutely no excuse for "You touched my foo!" to lead to "flipping out" when the person who touched the foo is your SPOUSE.
In and of itself, this isn't DTMFA behavior, but if this what you're describing as emblematic of the relationship... Marriage should be a partnership, not a dictatorship.
If you really want to make this work, it sounds like you could use the help of a couples' therapist at the very least... But since you're writing from the point of view of "I think I want out of this," I think you should absolutely get out of it.
posted by sonika at 10:29 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just this bit is enough for me to advocate going your separate ways. You're MARRIED. You are not his roommate. You should not require permission to use his things from time to time and even then, there is absolutely no excuse for "You touched my foo!" to lead to "flipping out" when the person who touched the foo is your SPOUSE.
In and of itself, this isn't DTMFA behavior, but if this what you're describing as emblematic of the relationship... Marriage should be a partnership, not a dictatorship.
If you really want to make this work, it sounds like you could use the help of a couples' therapist at the very least... But since you're writing from the point of view of "I think I want out of this," I think you should absolutely get out of it.
posted by sonika at 10:29 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Most should-I-stay-or-should-I-go questions generally contain a few sentences about what the asker thinks is good about the relationship (for example: "We really do have a good time together, he's good to our pets, he's a good provider...") In reading your question, I don't see any of that, unless I'm missing something, and that really was telling.
Please leave. You deserve better.
posted by SisterHavana at 11:21 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Please leave. You deserve better.
posted by SisterHavana at 11:21 AM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
He's pissed at life. He dislikes himself. It has nothing to do with you. He has his own work to do.
Since he dislikes himself so much he's probably trying to get you to hate him too. Sounds strange but that's what miserable types do.
Quoted for truth. I've been in a similar relationship, and what I figured after a lot of trial and error was that it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do, because his behavior isn't about you.
Step 1:
Encourage *him* to go to individual therapy, because he needs it. Something is going off the rails with him and he's doing the emotional equivalent of committing suicide by cop here, with you as the cop. Don't let yourself get manipulated into that -- your role in life is to be more than just being a bit player in his psychodrama. And don't let yourself be collateral damage -- you are worth just as much as he is.
Problems that result in stuff like this -- withdrawing from your partner so deeply that you're basically terrorizing her in her own home, withholding/hoarding things from her, etc -- they're deep-seated, and he's not going to be able to change his behavior or thinking without professional help. If he won't or can't go to therapy and get help with *himself* then I don't think there's much hope of this getting better instead of worse.
Step 2:
Have an escape plan in place. He's trying to cow you, and that's probably going to escalate and escalate because he's never going to be able to control you/the situation to the extent he wants (because how much he wants to control you/it is infinite). In my experience, the next things on this trajectory will be insinuations about weapons/violence, and throwing stuff. There will probably come a point where you're just too scared and you need to escape. So make a plan now for where you can go, how you'll pay for things, get to work, what will happen with your pets, etc. Talk to a lawyer. At least give yourself the option of pulling the rip cord.
If/when he realizes you're serious about leaving, he'll might flip and become emotionally out of control in a different way -- it'll be another kind of manipulation, he'll have realized he can't control you with anger, so he'll try to control you with tears, kindness, something else. Don't buy it, that's just a mask for the problem, it doesn't mean the problem is any different from before.
You're in a horrible situation, I understand loving someone and being terrified of him, not wanting to abandon him but wishing for escape. At a point, your mantra has to be "safety first." Remember that nobody is going to pick you up if you fall trying to carry his burdens, you need to make sure you can carry your own and he needs to take responsibility for carrying his.
That said, his behavior is about him being screwed up, not anything wrong with you. The class, education, etc differences are a red herring here, I think -- in my case, I had more education and it didn't make a difference, he just tried to screw with my head about me being a judgmental ass instead of being low-class trash, same shit different day. So anyway, in my case I broke up with him, which has been really hard, and I'm still figuring out what was gas-lighting and what was real. You might not be thinking clearly right now either -- it's hard to see the more insidious ways his behavior has influenced how you think, especially because he's someone you love and trust.
Tl;dr:
This is a problem with him, this is not a problem with your relationship -- if he can't fix himself (which will require the aid of a professional, at the least), then I don't think it's a relationship you can or should stay in, for mental health and physical safety reasons.
posted by rue72 at 12:03 PM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
Since he dislikes himself so much he's probably trying to get you to hate him too. Sounds strange but that's what miserable types do.
Quoted for truth. I've been in a similar relationship, and what I figured after a lot of trial and error was that it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do, because his behavior isn't about you.
Step 1:
Encourage *him* to go to individual therapy, because he needs it. Something is going off the rails with him and he's doing the emotional equivalent of committing suicide by cop here, with you as the cop. Don't let yourself get manipulated into that -- your role in life is to be more than just being a bit player in his psychodrama. And don't let yourself be collateral damage -- you are worth just as much as he is.
Problems that result in stuff like this -- withdrawing from your partner so deeply that you're basically terrorizing her in her own home, withholding/hoarding things from her, etc -- they're deep-seated, and he's not going to be able to change his behavior or thinking without professional help. If he won't or can't go to therapy and get help with *himself* then I don't think there's much hope of this getting better instead of worse.
Step 2:
Have an escape plan in place. He's trying to cow you, and that's probably going to escalate and escalate because he's never going to be able to control you/the situation to the extent he wants (because how much he wants to control you/it is infinite). In my experience, the next things on this trajectory will be insinuations about weapons/violence, and throwing stuff. There will probably come a point where you're just too scared and you need to escape. So make a plan now for where you can go, how you'll pay for things, get to work, what will happen with your pets, etc. Talk to a lawyer. At least give yourself the option of pulling the rip cord.
If/when he realizes you're serious about leaving, he'll might flip and become emotionally out of control in a different way -- it'll be another kind of manipulation, he'll have realized he can't control you with anger, so he'll try to control you with tears, kindness, something else. Don't buy it, that's just a mask for the problem, it doesn't mean the problem is any different from before.
You're in a horrible situation, I understand loving someone and being terrified of him, not wanting to abandon him but wishing for escape. At a point, your mantra has to be "safety first." Remember that nobody is going to pick you up if you fall trying to carry his burdens, you need to make sure you can carry your own and he needs to take responsibility for carrying his.
That said, his behavior is about him being screwed up, not anything wrong with you. The class, education, etc differences are a red herring here, I think -- in my case, I had more education and it didn't make a difference, he just tried to screw with my head about me being a judgmental ass instead of being low-class trash, same shit different day. So anyway, in my case I broke up with him, which has been really hard, and I'm still figuring out what was gas-lighting and what was real. You might not be thinking clearly right now either -- it's hard to see the more insidious ways his behavior has influenced how you think, especially because he's someone you love and trust.
Tl;dr:
This is a problem with him, this is not a problem with your relationship -- if he can't fix himself (which will require the aid of a professional, at the least), then I don't think it's a relationship you can or should stay in, for mental health and physical safety reasons.
posted by rue72 at 12:03 PM on November 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
You expected to get something, you didn't get it, you got this instead, something which is hurting you. I think it's perfectly fine to say, this is not what I want, I need to move on. If he really wanted to change, he would, but he doesn't.
posted by heyjude at 12:04 PM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by heyjude at 12:04 PM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hi, I have so totally been you. I am friends with my arrogant genius ex now, but it took me years to see him for what he is -- and more importantly, to see *me* for who *I* am.
The thing about arrogant geniuses is that it feels so super good when they treat you well, right? Because someone who is sooooo smart and soooo picky thinks *you* are awesome and chose *you* to marry! The unfortunate thing is that the arrogance is a thin layer of ice over a deep hole of insecurity, and this guy is putting you down in every way conceivable to convince himself and you that he is in fact the genius he wants everyone to believe he is.
I am very, very sorry but I do not think you should stay in this relationship. If you are anything like me, you will come to realize in time (and hopefully with therapy) that the difference between your current dynamic and a healthy one is breathtakingly huge, and you will feel reborn when you find someone who actually values you as a person, not just as a prop for his own ego.
posted by karbonokapi at 12:46 PM on November 24, 2013 [8 favorites]
The thing about arrogant geniuses is that it feels so super good when they treat you well, right? Because someone who is sooooo smart and soooo picky thinks *you* are awesome and chose *you* to marry! The unfortunate thing is that the arrogance is a thin layer of ice over a deep hole of insecurity, and this guy is putting you down in every way conceivable to convince himself and you that he is in fact the genius he wants everyone to believe he is.
I am very, very sorry but I do not think you should stay in this relationship. If you are anything like me, you will come to realize in time (and hopefully with therapy) that the difference between your current dynamic and a healthy one is breathtakingly huge, and you will feel reborn when you find someone who actually values you as a person, not just as a prop for his own ego.
posted by karbonokapi at 12:46 PM on November 24, 2013 [8 favorites]
...your magic words are "I won't be talked to that way." Every. Single. Time.
But...but if that worked, it wouldn't require repeating. I'm sorry. I don't think that's good advice. I can see that as a one-off but not as a recurring thing in a healthy relationship.
posted by kmennie at 4:44 PM on November 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
But...but if that worked, it wouldn't require repeating. I'm sorry. I don't think that's good advice. I can see that as a one-off but not as a recurring thing in a healthy relationship.
posted by kmennie at 4:44 PM on November 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
It doesn't sound like you really like him very much. You didn't name anything at all you like about him. Not to say that's unjustified. But if you're with someone you don't like, then something isn't right.
When I was having a hard time deciding whether to leave a relationship, I gave myself a three month deadline. I paid close attention for those three months: how often did we enjoy each other's company? How often did I feel happy for most of the day? At the end of the three months I knew I had given it a serious try but objectively, the relationship was not working and I had to make the difficult choice to leave.
It was very hard. I was incredibly lonely for several years afterward. And I had a kid I had to explain it to. But now I'm in a happy relationship with someone who supports my dreams and makes me laugh every day. Sure, some days I get irritated or angry or scared about her. But even at those times I admire her. I enjoy her company and am attracted to her every day. I am so glad I got out of that relationship with someone I honestly didn't like.
posted by latkes at 5:54 PM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I was having a hard time deciding whether to leave a relationship, I gave myself a three month deadline. I paid close attention for those three months: how often did we enjoy each other's company? How often did I feel happy for most of the day? At the end of the three months I knew I had given it a serious try but objectively, the relationship was not working and I had to make the difficult choice to leave.
It was very hard. I was incredibly lonely for several years afterward. And I had a kid I had to explain it to. But now I'm in a happy relationship with someone who supports my dreams and makes me laugh every day. Sure, some days I get irritated or angry or scared about her. But even at those times I admire her. I enjoy her company and am attracted to her every day. I am so glad I got out of that relationship with someone I honestly didn't like.
posted by latkes at 5:54 PM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
I, too, have an ex-husband just like this. Nitpicky, contemptuous, arrogant "genius" who basically took out all of his self-loathing on me, changed a couple years after we'd been together, all that. I tried and tried and tried to make things work. They didn't. I even told him that if things wouldn't get better, we'd get divorced... and yet it didn't truly end until Thanksgiving one year when I got out of the shower to find him sitting on the couch, having decided for himself that things were just not going to work.
It is emphatically not your fault that this marriage -- something that held your dreams and wishes for the future, something that should be protecting you instead of giving you pain -- is not working the way you'd planned. A marriage is a partnership. One person simply can't carry the load.
You've seen here that there are a ton of smart, compassionate people who have been in the same situation. It sucks, but you're not alone. Boy, are you not alone!
But I am here to tell you that there's so much more out there for you than being nagged and put down and shamed and nothinged every day. And the best part of it is that when you know how bad and painful things have been in the past, the gratefulness you feel when you find someone wonderful -- which you can and will do -- makes every good thing ten times better. I can't even think of one specific night in the four years my now-husband and I have lived together when we haven't gone to bed nearly giddy with joy that we can snuggle up to the one we love. We're stupid happy.
You deserve a better life, and you can have it.
posted by Madamina at 6:17 PM on November 24, 2013 [7 favorites]
It is emphatically not your fault that this marriage -- something that held your dreams and wishes for the future, something that should be protecting you instead of giving you pain -- is not working the way you'd planned. A marriage is a partnership. One person simply can't carry the load.
You've seen here that there are a ton of smart, compassionate people who have been in the same situation. It sucks, but you're not alone. Boy, are you not alone!
But I am here to tell you that there's so much more out there for you than being nagged and put down and shamed and nothinged every day. And the best part of it is that when you know how bad and painful things have been in the past, the gratefulness you feel when you find someone wonderful -- which you can and will do -- makes every good thing ten times better. I can't even think of one specific night in the four years my now-husband and I have lived together when we haven't gone to bed nearly giddy with joy that we can snuggle up to the one we love. We're stupid happy.
You deserve a better life, and you can have it.
posted by Madamina at 6:17 PM on November 24, 2013 [7 favorites]
Just wanted to second the wisdom of rue72's comment.
My arrogant, insensitive, weird-about-sharing-possessions (ex)husband left me last winter. I tried hard to get him to come back. One month later, he told me there was no chance of us working it out, though we had been in counseling, and told me he wouldn't go to counseling any longer. Two weeks after that, I basically said "FINE," and started making serious arrangements to move on with my life. I found a new place to live, signed a lease, and started packing.
And THEN, finally, he suddenly came to me because he thought we could and should work things out, go back to counseling, not give up on our relationship, etc. But by that point it was clear to me that I didn't want to be under his control or living my life trying to avoid his anger any longer. I moved forward with my plans, but tried to keep an open mind about the possibility of reconciliation.
As things played out, it became clear that what he wanted was not really me, but for me to stay within his control. He tried so many angles to get me back. And while this whole post may seem cynical (why not give my seemingly well-meaning husband another chance?), I knew in my gut that it was no longer a relationship based on love or respect. We'll be officially divorced in the next few months. I don't regret it. You deserve love and respect!
posted by singlesock at 7:26 PM on November 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
My arrogant, insensitive, weird-about-sharing-possessions (ex)husband left me last winter. I tried hard to get him to come back. One month later, he told me there was no chance of us working it out, though we had been in counseling, and told me he wouldn't go to counseling any longer. Two weeks after that, I basically said "FINE," and started making serious arrangements to move on with my life. I found a new place to live, signed a lease, and started packing.
And THEN, finally, he suddenly came to me because he thought we could and should work things out, go back to counseling, not give up on our relationship, etc. But by that point it was clear to me that I didn't want to be under his control or living my life trying to avoid his anger any longer. I moved forward with my plans, but tried to keep an open mind about the possibility of reconciliation.
As things played out, it became clear that what he wanted was not really me, but for me to stay within his control. He tried so many angles to get me back. And while this whole post may seem cynical (why not give my seemingly well-meaning husband another chance?), I knew in my gut that it was no longer a relationship based on love or respect. We'll be officially divorced in the next few months. I don't regret it. You deserve love and respect!
posted by singlesock at 7:26 PM on November 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
My husband is a funny, arrogant genius,
This has clearly been covered to hell and back but just to make sure this particular point gets said - these are not unique or interesting character traits and are in fact the characteristics of everyone who writes for, let's say, Gawker.
Funny and arrogant geniuses are all over the fucking place.
It sounds like you've had a really rough time and I'm sorry.
I hope you get out of this and sail away into an awesome new life and never look back and never feel bad about any of it--four years, five years -- it's not so bad for a Great Life Lesson. It's an investment. It's okay.
I have been there and I know this. Shoot me a MeMail if you feel like it.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:41 PM on November 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
This has clearly been covered to hell and back but just to make sure this particular point gets said - these are not unique or interesting character traits and are in fact the characteristics of everyone who writes for, let's say, Gawker.
Funny and arrogant geniuses are all over the fucking place.
It sounds like you've had a really rough time and I'm sorry.
I hope you get out of this and sail away into an awesome new life and never look back and never feel bad about any of it--four years, five years -- it's not so bad for a Great Life Lesson. It's an investment. It's okay.
I have been there and I know this. Shoot me a MeMail if you feel like it.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:41 PM on November 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
Run, dear, run as fast as you can and don't stay for years and years like I did. Do it before you have kids and then go to counseling and learn how to avoid a guy like this in the future. All you describe about yourself is not a reason to be ashamed or think you are lesser. Make it a point to find someone who thinks you are just perfect like you are. Good luck.
posted by OhSusannah at 9:24 PM on November 24, 2013
posted by OhSusannah at 9:24 PM on November 24, 2013
I haven't read all the answers above, but from reading your description, your situation is verbally and emotionally abusive.
Abuse is a cycle. So while it's true that sometimes things might seem fine, that's actually part of the abuse... having those "everything's fine" periods in between the anger and hostility. Think about it: If an abusive person is 100% horrible 100% of the time, no one would ever stick around for them to abuse anymore.
When I was in a similar relationship, this book and this book were critical in helping me understand more about what was going on.
Don't give up. You're not crazy. When he says things that don't make any sense, or things that seem crazy to you, just remember that he's not saying it because he actually believes it. He's saying it because he knows he can manipulate you in some way. Either by making you feel bad about yourself, or making you feel like you need to try harder, etc.
A better counselor would probably help you. I encourage you to seek out another one—one that will stick with you for a while in order for you to become stronger at recognizing the patterns of abuse and responding to them in a way that will help keep them from happening in the future.
Best of luck to you. Life doesn't have to be like this. There's a whole big wide world out there.
posted by eleyna at 11:07 PM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Abuse is a cycle. So while it's true that sometimes things might seem fine, that's actually part of the abuse... having those "everything's fine" periods in between the anger and hostility. Think about it: If an abusive person is 100% horrible 100% of the time, no one would ever stick around for them to abuse anymore.
When I was in a similar relationship, this book and this book were critical in helping me understand more about what was going on.
Don't give up. You're not crazy. When he says things that don't make any sense, or things that seem crazy to you, just remember that he's not saying it because he actually believes it. He's saying it because he knows he can manipulate you in some way. Either by making you feel bad about yourself, or making you feel like you need to try harder, etc.
A better counselor would probably help you. I encourage you to seek out another one—one that will stick with you for a while in order for you to become stronger at recognizing the patterns of abuse and responding to them in a way that will help keep them from happening in the future.
Best of luck to you. Life doesn't have to be like this. There's a whole big wide world out there.
posted by eleyna at 11:07 PM on November 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
I never thought I'd be considering divorce
Now you have considered it. So the taboo is broken. You are considering divorce, you know that about yourself. I think it's time he knew it.
Divorce needs to be one of the possible solutions next time you have one of these "state of the union" discussions or next time you are at therapy.
Your choices are let him know how thin the ice is now or wait until you know the relationship is over (maybe now) and get divorced then.
posted by French Fry at 7:28 AM on November 25, 2013
Now you have considered it. So the taboo is broken. You are considering divorce, you know that about yourself. I think it's time he knew it.
Divorce needs to be one of the possible solutions next time you have one of these "state of the union" discussions or next time you are at therapy.
Your choices are let him know how thin the ice is now or wait until you know the relationship is over (maybe now) and get divorced then.
posted by French Fry at 7:28 AM on November 25, 2013
Get out of there.
posted by ead at 9:02 PM on November 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ead at 9:02 PM on November 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on November 24, 2013 [34 favorites]