Oral sex-iprocity?

November 21, 2013 12:23 PM

My boyfriend has forgotten I exist in the bedroom. How can I go about initiating a chat about this and finding a solution before my sexual self-esteem completely disappears? (NSFW)

Hi MeFites. Here is the situation I find myself in. I've been dating the lovliest man for a good long while now. Our sex life is...fine. We had known each other for many years before dating and during that entire time, the sexual tension between us was INSANE. Since we've gotten together though, I feel it's all but disappeared.

We are long distance but talk multiple times daily and see each other ever weekend and through the week occasionally. If we see each other 3 days a week, we'll typically have sex one of those days and mostly it's pretty unfulfilling for me. I've tried to spice things up -- dirty talk (which he engages in but never follows through on in person), cards in the mail, lingerie (which he seemingly has no interest seeing me in), loving gestures outside of the bedroom, etc. I initiate almost all sex now and despite my efforts we seem to be stuck in a sort of let's just get this sex thing over with so we can hang ritual that is frustrating me to no end.

To make matters worse, this guy who was totally into oral sex on the beginning has all but abandoned it now. I think this is my fault perhaps -- I have perfected the art of a blow job with this guy and usually that's how our sex ends as he can't seem to finish inside me anymore. I am enthusiastic, I love going down in him and make that obvious and I think he likes that so much he's forgotten about me and foreplay altogether.

Obviously, I need to have a chat with my guy about this. At this point it's effecting my self esteem ("is it me? Did I do something wrong? Does he not like me enough?" UGH.). Thing is, despite the fact that we're madly in love I have no idea how to broach this subject. I ind myself holding back snarky comments about the fact that I feel he's forgotten I have a vagina and like orgasms too and that's no good nor productive.

So what's the most gentle way to this up and let him know that I'd like and need some reciprocity in the bedroom? I honestly don't feel like he's sexually attracted to me at all an that hurts, considering I find him insanely hot and tell him so often. I want to take my pleasure into my own hands and explore that with my partner, I'm just not sure how to bring that up or what to say.

Any thoughts?

(For the record, every other aspect of our relationship is absolutely wonderful. I love his guy, he's my lobster, and I have no intention of bailing when I think a good chat will go a long way in fixing this.)

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (20 answers total)

Sounds just like my ex... Porn addiction that he wouldn't address. Anytime a youngish, healthy man has these kind of sexual dysfunctions, it is not normal, but seems to be an increasing problem for our generation.

I ended up breaking up with my ex because he would not discuss or address it and thought that just receiving blow jobs or secretly looking at porn while ducking me was just fine for him, and my objections were my problem... This can be poisonous and left me with many issues. So bring it up but be prepared for the situation to not improve, and decide if it is a deal breaker or not for you (it was for me).

There is an episode of Loveline that aired recently that talks about this kind of trend that you might find helpful to listen to as well!

*edited to add that I meant fucking instead of ducking, but both words actually work.
posted by cakebatter at 12:40 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

is he on any meds? a lot of anti depressants for example will affect how and how often a guy can finish (and women too).

bookend the conversation with Positives. start with what you said in parens in the end of your question. then express your concerns and desires and needs. then end with "i'm really attracted to you and i think we can totally improve this situation together."

you might need to say something like, sometimes when i am frustrated by this i find myself holding back snarky comments about you forgetting about me and my pleasure - i don't want to be sarcastic or mean with you, that's not cool, but the fact that i feel that way is a sign that something about this needs to change.

also, google the blog "the dirty normal" and read everything she's written about differential desire - which is the sex therapist term to describe this situation. useful stuff. he may benefit from reading it too.

if it does turn out to be a porn thing then you might find yourself asking him, is it more important to you to watch all that or to have a healthy, happy relationship with me? and if he does choose the porn...well, then that's a new set of things to think about.
posted by zdravo at 12:53 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]

Obviously, it is a lot easier to have a (loving, sensitive, compassionate, but frank) conversation about this if you are willing to let the relationship go if your partner doesn't come out of it committed to fixing shit. If you're planning to stay even if this continues on a downward trajectory, that's a valid choice but be aware it's going to weaken your position and how strong you are willing to be in your conversation.

Given all of that, I would go for a walk or something and say "Look, this is hard to talk about, but I am wondering what's going on in the bedroom department because the sex we're having seems to have really changed in ways that make me feel bad."

See what he says and if he asks for examples, be prepared to be specific because this is a good sign; it's the conversation you want and need to have. If however he blows you off or skirts the issue, I think you really need to consider if this relationship with this partner is what you want.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:12 PM on November 21, 2013 [8 favorites]

So what's the most gentle way to this up and let him know that I'd like and need some reciprocity in the bedroom?

Honestly, it sounds like you're worrying to much about hurting his feelings, even as you suffer. Just bring the subject. "Hey, I'd like to talk to you about something that's been bothering me. It's our sex life which is insanely in some ways like when I'm (insert sexy dirty talk about blow jobs) but feeling a little lonely when it comes to receiving them. What can we do about that?"

There's no guarantee that this won't be bumpy, embarrassing or painful conversation for one or both of you. That's ok. That point is get it out in the open and start talking about it, so you both can be happy in the relationship.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:14 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]

I think you did a great job articulating this in your post. Talk to him tonight.
posted by sfts2 at 1:24 PM on November 21, 2013

I think you're making this much harder than it is. All you need to do is tell him exactly what you wrote here:

I honestly don't feel like he's sexually attracted to me at all an that hurts, considering I find him insanely hot and tell him so often. I want to take my pleasure into my own hands and explore that with my partner

That's pretty articulate and straightforward and loving and all of those things you want when making a request to your partner.

Libidos are strange things. Everyone's is different and everyone's changes and part of making long-term relationships work is checking in on this front from time to time. Just because he's not a crazed horn dog all the time does not in any way mean he isn't healthy, is addicted to porn or doesn't find you sexually attractive. If he sees you for three days a week and you have sex on one of those days, I think a lot of folks would probably consider that to be in the middle of the bell curve. But obviously if it's not what you need, have the talk, and find a way to work it out.
posted by Lutoslawski at 1:27 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

My philosophy is that it doesn't matter THAT much how you present something. Once someone gets the gist of what you're saying, they are going to have whatever their reaction is to the substance.

So as long as you are loving (not snarky or mean) and direct (not so vague they can't figure out what you're saying), then the response is not colored so much by how you tell it as by what is actually going on.

So... I'd just be super clear with him:
"I've been frustrated recently with our sex life. It used to be amazing. Everything else in our relationship is good so I've been hesitant about bringing it up, but I'm concerned because we don't have sex as often as I'd like and you don't give me oral sex as much as I'd like."

And he will respond with either:
- Oh no! I am so sorry! I didn't realize. Let's fix it. (And then he will or won't.)
- What? We have plenty of sex. (And then you have to clarify what's happening from your view.)
- I am sick/tired/depressed/whatever and don't want more sex. (And then you go into more detail.)
- I don't care if you get off. (And then you dump him.)
- Aliens have landed. (And you explore more with him what is going on.)

Women tend to worry way too much about saying things exactly the right way so no one will be mad at us. Just tell him what's going on and see what he says.
posted by 3491again at 1:41 PM on November 21, 2013 [24 favorites]

Couple of practical tips for the conversation.

Don't do it during sex, or immediately before or after. Do it over dinner or something.

To the extent possible, stay positive, optimistic, calm. Remember to use "I" sentences rather than "you" sentences. "I would like it if we..." rather than "You don't seem to want to..."

Libidos are indeed different and sometimes that's okay and sometimes it doesn't work, but what you're describing sounds to me like something other than a libido issue. Also it doesn't sound to me like porn addiction. I've had relationships with guys who could only come from oral and that just made PiV sex that much better because I knew he wasn't going to stop at just the wrong moment LOL. I've also had relationships with guys who couldn't come at all from oral and that was great because it meant I could provide unlimited oral without that being the end of everything (which it shouldn't be, but you know). But that's a completely different thing from someone who has stopped paying attention to what gets his partner off. I think you're right. I think it's laziness. And I think you're right that the only way to address this is directly. Lingerie never made my point for me when I was trying to make that point.
posted by janey47 at 1:45 PM on November 21, 2013

It's not your fault.
posted by Jairus at 2:01 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]

Usually these situations occur because a person has some emotional issues that they are working through or are unaware of.

Being sensitive to him is the first step. Within that sensitivity, ask for exactly what you want. Usually, ejaculatory incompetence requires talk therapy.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:02 PM on November 21, 2013

Stop accepting the situation. No more un-reciprocated blowjobs, no more bad sex. If it's not good sex for both of you, don't participate. Tell him you miss the livelier sex you used to have, and how much you miss the closeness and intimacy of more engaged sex. Things that can affect male libido - antidepressants and other meds, illness, depression, lack of engagement in the relationship.
posted by theora55 at 2:18 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]

I'd honestly say, and don't do this in a vacuum, but stop initiating sex and see if he does at all.

Now, to repeat what i said above, i'm not saying this as some passive aggressive thing. I agree with others that you should basically just tell him exactly what you wrote in this post. But do that and stop initiating and wait and see if he does.

There is absolutely nothing health, or fair about always being the initiator. He needs to paddle the boat away from the shore sometimes here.
posted by emptythought at 2:48 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

I will suggest only one thing: However you handle this, do not read too much into his initial reaction. Bring it up but be prepared to give him a little time to wrap his head around it. If he takes too long, he is probably just making excuses. But my marriage improved after I learned the art of bringing something up and then giving it time and giving him a little space to adjust instead of expecting instant success the nanosecond after I spilled my guts. My husband needed time to adjust and, early in the marriage, I just did not understand that. (We got married at 19. We did a lot of dumb stuff at first.)
posted by Michele in California at 3:09 PM on November 21, 2013 [9 favorites]

I feel he's forgotten I have a vagina and like orgasms too and that's no good nor productive

I found this line alarming. I know you said you're totally in love with him, and he's great in every other possible way, but this is a huge blind spot. It just seems profoundly inconsiderate. Are you saying that he seems to think you enjoy blow jobs so much you don't ever want/need an orgasm? That is seems not to occur to him that you might ever want to receive pleasure as well as give it?

This may be a failure of imagination on my part, but it's hard to believe he could be so selfish, lazy, and/or obtuse in the bedroom, but totally lovely and considerate out of the bedroom. However, if he is in fact a considerate partner otherwise, then this should be very easy to address. Tell him that you really enjoy giving him pleasure, but often you feel neglected, and you would like a turn having an orgasm each time you two get busy. This is a very, very reasonable request.

Maybe there's some other issue at work (he isn't sure what you would enjoy, or what you want him to do for you?), and if so, this will give you two a chance to work through that.
posted by pompelmo at 5:02 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

If every other aspect of a romantic relationship you have is wonderful except for the sexual aspect, what do you have? A very good friendship. Maybe your sexual tension was built upon the what-if, the possibility of being together, but the reality is not quite what you imagined.

If the sex seems less important than the time you spend together hanging out (like what friends do)--maybe that's because it is. Maybe how you feel, what your instincts are telling you is actually the truth: that he's not sexually attracted to you. But you are to him, and you are willing to give him blowjobs, so of course he wouldn't refuse. That could be one way to explain the sexual disinterest.

You should have a conversation, of course, and be honest and kind and optimistic. But maybe you should pay a bit more attention to your own feelings and the signs you've gotten. Everything is perfect except for this one thing that's awful means things aren't perfect at all. He might love you and trust you and value you as a close friend and partner--but maybe he's found out that you're not as sexually compatible. And that's hurts, but you're already hurt, and if you keep going pretending and trying, it may only get worse.
posted by lightgray at 5:37 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

He has forgotten you have a vagina. Have you reminded him? As many have said, this is not your fault and you need to have a conversation about it. But you have to be your own advocate for your sexual pleasure. Some people will be very intuitive and pick up on what gets you off. Other people can't think beyond their own erection. The difference between a good, considerate lover and an asshole is that one will listen to you and work on it.
posted by munchingzombie at 7:11 PM on November 21, 2013

zdravo: is he on any meds? a lot of anti depressants for example will affect how and how often a guy can finish (and women too).

While I certainly know anti-depressants can cause anorgasmia, that's not at all what she's describing. He gets hard and gets off; he's just lost interest in their sexual relationship, and especially the giving part of it.

And that's a sort of passive-aggressive hostile action on his part. He's not doing this without any self-awareness; at some level this has to be him expressing anger/insecurity/fear/whatever.

None of this, of course, makes it your fault, OP. It's his fault. Taking and not giving is jerky.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:36 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

Next time the two of you are talking about anything vaguely sexual, bring this up.

You're a kind person to want to be gentle about this, but this isn't what the situation calls for. He hasn't literally forgotten you have a vagina; he might just think this is working for you. Inform him otherwise; open up a dialogue about the current state of things.
posted by RainyJay at 11:28 PM on November 21, 2013

I find myself holding back snarky comments about the fact that I feel he's forgotten I have a vagina and like orgasms too and that's no good nor productive.

I don't know... This is some high-school level lack of pussy eating, it might require some high-school level snark.

This is deeply deeply shitty behavior. If this were something other than sex you wouldn't even be considering putting up with a level of inequity this glaring.

You get together 3 times a week; one of those times he gets a blowjob and does NOTHING for you. That's not a sex life, that's a service.
posted by French Fry at 4:50 AM on November 22, 2013 [3 favorites]

Having been in this situation before (in reverse), I advise you to be preprared for the possibility that he will say something like "Really? I thought everything was fine. I'll try a little harder" and then...nothing will happen. Maybe for a week or two, but then back to normal.

If that happens, then the real fun begins, because you will end up frustrated and resentful, while he'll just carry on like everything's normal.
posted by eas98 at 7:06 AM on November 22, 2013