I've reached a crossroads
November 13, 2013 7:27 PM Subscribe
Have completed 2/3 of an undergrad course and want to transfer out.
I'm in my mid-twenties.
The course is a professional degree of 6 years in length, and by my calculations will make me extremely uncompetitive for job offers when I leave (for various reasons, please try not to debate this). Not many of the graduating seniors have gotten a job in the profession (although a few have).
I've been unhappy since freshman year, but always thought to myself that I needed to stick it out and push past the difficulties I faced here (things like quality of classes, lack of tutorials, and lack of rigor) because of the time I invested in the programme already. I've had good grades throughout. Finally, I got real with myself and realized I wasn't going to be competitive for the employment market (in my profession, or in getting research jobs) and decided to apply to transfer out to a stats undergrad. The stats programme that may or may not accept me (still in the application process) is a very high-ranking one. I'm thinking if I transfer out now, instead of searching 2 years from now for a job that I'm likely not going to get, is a rational and calculated risk to take. If I successfully transfer all my credits, I can shave half a year off the next degree. My current programme doesn't run on a modular system, so I cannot simply apply for the courses I want to be in. (quirk of the programme, meh)
Let's assume for a moment that I get in. (If I don't, of course I'm not transferring out.)
1. Am I being unrealistic about it? I feel like 4 years is such a long time to have invested, but on the other hand, if I continue I would have invested even more time into what I believe is a high-risk investment.
2. Alternatively, would getting a grad degree in Stats improve my employability? My current programme has very little Stats to begin with, which is why I'm thinking an undergrad in Stats would give me a good grounding in Stats instead of a Masters. I'm not in the US, so not sure how to go to a CC and get pre-reqs.
3. The thing I'm worrying about the most now is: after I complete my undergrad and compete for jobs, how will it look to employers that I transferred out after 4 years? Must I include it in my CV to account for all the time I spent out of high school? The thing is I also have some activities I'm proud to have participated in that occurred over the last 4 years.
I need all the advice I can get right now, harsh or not. Thanks MeFi.
I'm in my mid-twenties.
The course is a professional degree of 6 years in length, and by my calculations will make me extremely uncompetitive for job offers when I leave (for various reasons, please try not to debate this). Not many of the graduating seniors have gotten a job in the profession (although a few have).
I've been unhappy since freshman year, but always thought to myself that I needed to stick it out and push past the difficulties I faced here (things like quality of classes, lack of tutorials, and lack of rigor) because of the time I invested in the programme already. I've had good grades throughout. Finally, I got real with myself and realized I wasn't going to be competitive for the employment market (in my profession, or in getting research jobs) and decided to apply to transfer out to a stats undergrad. The stats programme that may or may not accept me (still in the application process) is a very high-ranking one. I'm thinking if I transfer out now, instead of searching 2 years from now for a job that I'm likely not going to get, is a rational and calculated risk to take. If I successfully transfer all my credits, I can shave half a year off the next degree. My current programme doesn't run on a modular system, so I cannot simply apply for the courses I want to be in. (quirk of the programme, meh)
Let's assume for a moment that I get in. (If I don't, of course I'm not transferring out.)
1. Am I being unrealistic about it? I feel like 4 years is such a long time to have invested, but on the other hand, if I continue I would have invested even more time into what I believe is a high-risk investment.
2. Alternatively, would getting a grad degree in Stats improve my employability? My current programme has very little Stats to begin with, which is why I'm thinking an undergrad in Stats would give me a good grounding in Stats instead of a Masters. I'm not in the US, so not sure how to go to a CC and get pre-reqs.
3. The thing I'm worrying about the most now is: after I complete my undergrad and compete for jobs, how will it look to employers that I transferred out after 4 years? Must I include it in my CV to account for all the time I spent out of high school? The thing is I also have some activities I'm proud to have participated in that occurred over the last 4 years.
I need all the advice I can get right now, harsh or not. Thanks MeFi.
Am I being unrealistic about it? I feel like 4 years is such a long time to have invested, but on the other hand, if I continue I would have invested even more time into what I believe is a high-risk investment.
How long is the new degree? Are you factoring in additional years of lost possibility for income as well as tuition?
This question is very difficult to answer without knowing your career goals (other than just getting a job), not to mention your current degree program.
posted by snarfles at 7:56 PM on November 13, 2013
How long is the new degree? Are you factoring in additional years of lost possibility for income as well as tuition?
This question is very difficult to answer without knowing your career goals (other than just getting a job), not to mention your current degree program.
posted by snarfles at 7:56 PM on November 13, 2013
3. The thing I'm worrying about the most now is: after I complete my undergrad and compete for jobs, how will it look to employers that I transferred out after 4 years? Must I include it in my CV to account for all the time I spent out of high school? The thing is I also have some activities I'm proud to have participated in that occurred over the last 4 years.
Your employers won't care. You don't have to include it. Include the things you are proud of. Sleep well my friend.
posted by Brent Parker at 8:08 PM on November 13, 2013
Your employers won't care. You don't have to include it. Include the things you are proud of. Sleep well my friend.
posted by Brent Parker at 8:08 PM on November 13, 2013
Must I include it in my CV to account for all the time I spent out of high school?
Good lord, no. The only thing I've ever put on mine (and ever seen, on other peoples' resumes) is University of Place, BA/BS/likethat, Year Degree was Granted. Never how long it took.
You're not weird for taking longer than four years. Four years to complete a regular bachelors is the average - many, many people take five, six, or more years.
posted by rtha at 8:21 PM on November 13, 2013
Good lord, no. The only thing I've ever put on mine (and ever seen, on other peoples' resumes) is University of Place, BA/BS/likethat, Year Degree was Granted. Never how long it took.
You're not weird for taking longer than four years. Four years to complete a regular bachelors is the average - many, many people take five, six, or more years.
posted by rtha at 8:21 PM on November 13, 2013
What matters is largely skills, experience, and network. You need the network to get your foot in the door, but employers need people who can solve their problems, and to that they look for signs that you have the skills they need and will be capable of applying them competently. College degrees are often used as signifiers of skills and competence, and they work well as a quick filter, but actual work experience, or a project portfolio, or some other kind of real-world evidence that you are going to be effective in the workplace, is what really counts. No-one will really care about your educational history if you have the skills and experience they need. If you don't, then your pedigree becomes more important, because they have to make an educated guess as to how well you're likely to perform with whatever evidence they do have. But you'd be less competitive than someone with a proven record in such cases.
Things you can do for yourself to improve employability:
- Find internships or co-op positions (#1)
- Go to networking events in fields you think you might want to work in
- Seek mentors in these fields, buy them lunch, ask them for career advice, what sort of skills and experience are needed to get hired
- Take on projects to develop employable skills, write about them online -- build a paper trail showing what you can do
- Try to contribute to something real-world in the field you want to work. like an open-source software package if you're a programmer; volunteering with a local non-profit (marketing, event planning, tech writing, whatever) -- show you can contribute as part of a team subject to real-world pressures.
It's possible switching programs might be a good move, but that's only part of the picture. As I read on the web somewhere, "you can't get hired to do something you've never done before".
posted by PercussivePaul at 8:29 PM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Things you can do for yourself to improve employability:
- Find internships or co-op positions (#1)
- Go to networking events in fields you think you might want to work in
- Seek mentors in these fields, buy them lunch, ask them for career advice, what sort of skills and experience are needed to get hired
- Take on projects to develop employable skills, write about them online -- build a paper trail showing what you can do
- Try to contribute to something real-world in the field you want to work. like an open-source software package if you're a programmer; volunteering with a local non-profit (marketing, event planning, tech writing, whatever) -- show you can contribute as part of a team subject to real-world pressures.
It's possible switching programs might be a good move, but that's only part of the picture. As I read on the web somewhere, "you can't get hired to do something you've never done before".
posted by PercussivePaul at 8:29 PM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Transferring from WHAT to stats? How can anybody quantify a change from baseline if we don't know what the baseline is?
posted by oceanjesse at 8:42 PM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 8:42 PM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
1. Well, it's really hard to judge if you're being unrealistic without knowing details. I lean toward feeling the best route is completing whichever undergrad course takes the least amount of extra time/money, filling electives with other coursework that's helpful to your career goals, and trying to spend extracurricular time productively as well (volunteering, interning, etc). But 2 vs 3.5 years isn't that big a difference and you do know the details, so probably go with what you've planned.
2. Employability, full stop? Or employability as an actuary/trucker/[fill in the blank]? It's unlikely you need a grad degree in Stats now unless you know who your future employer is and that they require it for entry-level workers. If it helps later on in your career path, you can always take it later (and often if it's helpful for your career your employer will subsidize the cost).
3. I doubt it will have that big an influence; at most, you'll be asked about it in an interview and you'll want to spin it positively then. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it off my CV, but I grant it's considered a somewhat grey area.
posted by vegartanipla at 8:43 PM on November 13, 2013
2. Employability, full stop? Or employability as an actuary/trucker/[fill in the blank]? It's unlikely you need a grad degree in Stats now unless you know who your future employer is and that they require it for entry-level workers. If it helps later on in your career path, you can always take it later (and often if it's helpful for your career your employer will subsidize the cost).
3. I doubt it will have that big an influence; at most, you'll be asked about it in an interview and you'll want to spin it positively then. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it off my CV, but I grant it's considered a somewhat grey area.
posted by vegartanipla at 8:43 PM on November 13, 2013
Mod note: From the OP:
How long is the new degree? Are you factoring in additional years of lost possibility for income as well as tuition?posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:50 PM on November 13, 2013
This question is very difficult to answer without knowing your career goals (other than just getting a job), not to mention your current degree program.
The new degree will be 4 years in length, and if successful I will enter only next September. I am, which is why I am worried, but I have family financial support if necessary and am planning to work part-time. My current programme is paid-for so I am debt-free at the moment. I am also worried about ageist pressures in the employment market once I graduate from my next undergrad degree (I will be nearly 30).
My career goal is ideally to get a job working with the government (those require a "degree in statistics", I haven't figured out yet if it's a "Bachelors in Stats" or "Bachelors/Masters/PhD/anything in Stats"), in the private sector or in research as a statistician.
If all else goes to hell, I'd apply to be a teacher. When I finish my current programme, I can teach at elementary school (low pay) and middle school (higher pay), because I meet the minimum qualifications. However, competition for each position makes aiming for entry in 2 years (when I complete my current programme) with a minimum qualification very very unwise, I feel. I want to teach at high school, if I ever get into teaching, because the pay is higher. Also, if I can teach at high school, I most definitely can teach at the middle school level (competition- and qualifications-wise). And what I know of teaching is that it's easier to transition from industry to teaching than from teaching to industry, which I know will start considering if I don't make enough to save for marriage, kids and future retirement. I don't mind teaching at the middle or high school level (I've tutored at both levels before and liked it, and my students were successful), but I do mind teaching elementary school.
I am currently reading medicine, but took only 1 module of Stats (an optional subject I had to specially apply for). My current degree I believe makes me uncompetitive for biomedical research because there is a currently a glut of graduated life science majors, most of whom go into teaching.
Thank you so much, guys, for the advice so far. Please keep it coming.
Have you considered bioinformatics?
Learn some python, and you're ready to get started. There are folks on here that do that kind of work. If you wanted to ask them questions, I'm sure they'd get you some great advice.
Branch out!
posted by oceanjesse at 10:19 PM on November 13, 2013
Learn some python, and you're ready to get started. There are folks on here that do that kind of work. If you wanted to ask them questions, I'm sure they'd get you some great advice.
Branch out!
posted by oceanjesse at 10:19 PM on November 13, 2013
Economists would tell you that the money spent so far on four years of med school is a sunk cost. Past money spent and irrelevant to your future decision. At this point you have two choices:
1) spend two more years getting a degree that will not allow you to earn a paycheck; or
2) spend 3.5 more years getting an undergrad degree in stats that most likely will allow you to get work and would possibly allow you to pursue the grad degree in stats part time while working full-time (if you are so inclined).
This seems like an easy decision. Because a paycheck and a mostly fulfilling career are important to you, switch programs.
Regarding #3, I think it's absolutely fine to tell an employer that you thought you were interested in Medicine, but X happened, and it caused you to realize your true desire in Stats. As far as time out of high school, play to your edge over graduating "kids" at 22 years old, also with a Stats degree. You are a little older, more mature and bring the experience angle. See Percussive Paul's good suggestions on gaining that experience.
Good luck.
posted by Sonrisa at 11:42 PM on November 13, 2013
1) spend two more years getting a degree that will not allow you to earn a paycheck; or
2) spend 3.5 more years getting an undergrad degree in stats that most likely will allow you to get work and would possibly allow you to pursue the grad degree in stats part time while working full-time (if you are so inclined).
This seems like an easy decision. Because a paycheck and a mostly fulfilling career are important to you, switch programs.
Regarding #3, I think it's absolutely fine to tell an employer that you thought you were interested in Medicine, but X happened, and it caused you to realize your true desire in Stats. As far as time out of high school, play to your edge over graduating "kids" at 22 years old, also with a Stats degree. You are a little older, more mature and bring the experience angle. See Percussive Paul's good suggestions on gaining that experience.
Good luck.
posted by Sonrisa at 11:42 PM on November 13, 2013
You have 1.5-2 years left on a fully paid-for program and you're considering dropping that for 4 years in a program you have to pay for? I strongly suggest stayong the course. It's a short period of time left and you send up with a degree/credential and no debt. If at that time you still want the other degree then go for it, you haven't lost much time on it.
posted by headnsouth at 3:55 AM on November 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 3:55 AM on November 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you want a job doing any kind of proper statistics or data analytics, you're going to need at least a Masters. They generally don't let people with just a BS touch any real data - just the administrative support functions (data cleanup, e.g.). Why not finish your current program (free!) then get a Masters degree in stats or something similar. You can do some post-bacc classes if needed.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:36 AM on November 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by melissasaurus at 4:36 AM on November 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm going to recommend C, None of the Above.
See if you can take some courses in Actuarial Science. If you already have a BA, then you're fine, you just need an introduction to how actuarial science works. Then you take tests.
What is brilliant about the process is, once you've passed a test, you can be employed. Once employed, you work, make money and here's the kicker, you get about 25% of your time to continue studying for the next exam.
Husbunny is an actuary. He has a BA and ABD-Ph.D. in Mathematics. He was asked to do the Ph.D. in Actuarial Science, but he didn't like it so he just went to work. He's been working as an actuary for nearly 6 years now. He loves it! He's studying for another exam as we speak.
If you have the chops to do stats, screw that and do something for which they are always hiring! You could probably self-study for Test 1 (it's pretty straight-forward) and get employed before summer!
Seriously, think about it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:31 AM on November 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
See if you can take some courses in Actuarial Science. If you already have a BA, then you're fine, you just need an introduction to how actuarial science works. Then you take tests.
What is brilliant about the process is, once you've passed a test, you can be employed. Once employed, you work, make money and here's the kicker, you get about 25% of your time to continue studying for the next exam.
Husbunny is an actuary. He has a BA and ABD-Ph.D. in Mathematics. He was asked to do the Ph.D. in Actuarial Science, but he didn't like it so he just went to work. He's been working as an actuary for nearly 6 years now. He loves it! He's studying for another exam as we speak.
If you have the chops to do stats, screw that and do something for which they are always hiring! You could probably self-study for Test 1 (it's pretty straight-forward) and get employed before summer!
Seriously, think about it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:31 AM on November 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
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posted by cecic at 7:54 PM on November 13, 2013