My fiancé is friends with a sex worker.
November 13, 2013 8:19 AM   Subscribe

My fiancé is friends with a sex worker. (NSFW)

He used her as a dominatrix for two years before he and I got involved. Although she is almost half his age, he was quite devoted to her, lavishing her with expensive gifts and even having her dominatrix initial tattooed quite visibly on his back (he has no other tattoos). Although they never had penetrative sex she did regularly bring him to orgasm with a strap-on, so there is no question of the sexual nature of her service.

When she got married he stopped using her professionally at her request, because she preferred to be friends, although she didn't quit the work entirely. They saw each other socially a fair amount, and he even introduced her to his 9-year old daughter (he is a single dad) and had her at the little girl’s birthday parties.

He now views her as a close friend.

Once, to make him happy, I agreed to join him for dinner with her and her husband, who knows how she earns her living. I also went along to a burlesque performance she was a part of. My fiancé likes to show support for her various ventures when he can.

To me the whole thing feels awkward although he assures me he has no feelings for her, and that he only loves and wants me.*

My fiancé and I have now moved in together, an hour from where she lives. At this point they text each other occasionally and he sees her once every few months for drinks.

In fact he just announced this evening that he will be coming home late tomorrow because he’s seeing her for a drink after a work dinner. I put up a stink because I wasn’t invited, so to appease me he said I should come along as well. Which he knows I can’t do at short notice like this for logistical reasons.

Am I justified in being uncomfortable about this friendship? I've now told him outright that I don't want him seeing her alone any more. He says I'm being paranoid.

*Lest you ask, the BDSM thing is also a part of our relationship but somewhat more marginal. I got into it through him but it's only been between the two of us. He has said he wished I could become friends with this woman and learn some of the techniques from her. I, however, am not interested in socializing with a sex worker. Particularly not one my fiancé was in love with not so long ago.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (68 answers total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
 
Am I justified in being uncomfortable about this friendship?

IMHO, no. I don't see how this is any different from him being friends with an ex-girlfriend. I mean, you can feel however you want, but I wouldn't let this woman's occupation cloud your judgment here.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 AM on November 13, 2013 [22 favorites]


"I, however, am not interested in socializing with a sex worker."

If she did something else, would you still be getting a red flag? Also, ugh.
posted by anthropomorphic at 8:25 AM on November 13, 2013 [40 favorites]


If that kind of activity is very important to him (it sounds like he wants more of it than you are offering) and you are not comfortable doing that degree of that activity yourself, I think you should examine whether that difference may eventually become a big problem in your future marriage. I think that's the much more important question here.
posted by Dansaman at 8:28 AM on November 13, 2013 [19 favorites]


Am I justified in being uncomfortable about this friendship?

You are (I assume) an adult, you can choose who you are and who you are not friends with. You don't need to justify this to anyone, least of all strangers on the internet.

However, you should consider the fact that this woman is also an adult and capable of making her own choices, as is your fiance. Their friendship precedes your relationship. She is clearly important to him and I doubt, from your post, that this will change. If you continue to "kick up a stink" about her, it's only going to alienate you from them both. You don't have to like her but I caution you to at least be civil, because otherwise you may well find yourself in a very uncomfortable place.

That said, your post seems to be implying that because this woman is a sex worker, she is not to be trusted around your fiance. This is not true. Sex workers are people just like you who happen to be making their living with their body or their physical skills. This woman's occupation is not an indication of her morals or her character. You have no right to judge her because of it.
posted by fight or flight at 8:29 AM on November 13, 2013 [55 favorites]


"I, however, am not interested in socializing with a sex worker." huge red flag -- maybe the question is not whether or not you are justified in feeling uncomfortable. i'm not sure that any of us can answer that for you in a meaningful, helpful way. i doubt it's as simple as yes / no.

the fact of the matter is -- you're uncomfortable. but that is about you. so you need to figure out why / it doesn't go without saying. some of us would be stoked to befriend sex workers / already have / perhaps do sex work ourselves.

do you know why you are uncomfortable? is it because she is a sex worker? do you have stigmatized feelings around sex work? are you scared that your husband has feelings for her? are you feeling insecure because her bdsm skills may be greater than your own? are you scared he may leave you for his ex?

these might be good to think about. fwiw, i would bail post-haste if someone told me not to see a friend anymore to help assuage their own insecurities. that sounds like controlling and isolating behaviour, and i cringe at the thought of it.
posted by crawfo at 8:30 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


IMHO, no. I don't see how this is any different from him being friends with an ex-girlfriend.

See, I see this differently. In that, it's okay for you to not be okay with him hanging out solo with a much younger ex-girlfriend who he was incredibly devoted to, whose initials are tattooed on him, and whose sexual relationship with him you know way, way, way too much about.

Every relationship is different and it's up to the two of you to figure out the boundaries of that relationship. It's okay to not be comfortable with this. You have my permission.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:30 AM on November 13, 2013 [62 favorites]


If anything, the fact that she is a professional should make their friendship less of a big deal than if he was hanging out with an ex-girlfriend.

Is the problem that your fiance had a sexual relationship with this person, or is it that you don't like him socializing with someone who is a sex worker? By which I mean, would you feel the same way about her if your fiance was not a former client? I'm not clear on what your actual problem with the situation is and it sounds like maybe you aren't, either.
posted by something something at 8:31 AM on November 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


There are three levels at work here:

1. I am not interested in socializing with a sex worker.

...is a blanket prejudice that has nothing to do with the specificity of this particular sex worker, or with your fiancé. This one is entirely about you. You should probably examine why you feel this way.

2. Particularly not one my fiancé was in love with not so long ago.

This one is specific to the situation at least. Did he say he was in love with her? And if he did, do you feel differently about this woman than you would if he was friends with any of his other exes?

3. I've now told him outright that I don't want him seeing her alone any more.

Why? Which of them is it you think needs to be supervised? (And no, this is not justified. If you have insecurities, deal with your shit, don't make it everyone else's shit.)
posted by DarlingBri at 8:32 AM on November 13, 2013 [32 favorites]


It's just a job. I dated a dominatrix, and occasionally joined her in sessions with her clients. Sure, it was gratifying, but ultimately the person holding the whip is only interested in a steady income. Socializing with a "sex worker" == socializing with a fellow human. There's no reason to be jealous of their friendship.
posted by Sullenbode at 8:32 AM on November 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I feel like it is not appropriate for your fiancé to suggest you ask her about techniques, but I don't think you should refuse to socialize with her just because she's a sex worker.
posted by mlle valentine at 8:32 AM on November 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


You're going to get pushback here, probably, for your comment about not wanting to socialize with a sex worker. That to me is an objectionable statement rendered all the more objectionable by the fact that you're not only associating with her former client, you married him. Please consider why you're being so judgmental of her (former?) job but letting your husband off the hook enough for him to be your husband.

That said, I can understand why you're uncomfortable, in the same way that I can understand why people are skeeved out by their spouses befriending major exes. Thing is, though, she's not an ex: she's a professional he used to pay. She chose to stop accepting his money and there's no reason to believe she'll start again. It frankly sounds like his ongoing devotion to her her is a problem between the two of you and has almost nothing to do with her as a person at all. If you feel insecure, that's between you and your husband and you need to be able to talk to him about that, with the help of a counselor if necessary. Jealousy is toxic and speaks to bigger problems--take this as an opportunity to get closer and trust more, not something that has to drive you apart.
posted by c'mon sea legs at 8:32 AM on November 13, 2013 [18 favorites]


Sounds like you don't trust him. That's not a good ingredient in any recipe for a relationship.
posted by Etrigan at 8:33 AM on November 13, 2013 [16 favorites]


Am I justified in being uncomfortable about this friendship?

You have the right to be uncomfortable, because you have the right to whatever you feel. But that's not what you asked. You asked if you were justified, and the answer to that is no, not unless either of them have done anything post-breakup to make you think they're being inappropriate. And by "inappropriate," I mean "not respecting healthy boundaries." A shared past doesn't make their interactions inappropriate.

It sounds like their current relationship is a close friendship, with nothing more than that to it, and that what you're concerned about is their past and her profession.

But here's the important question:

To me the whole thing feels awkward although he assures me he has no feelings for her, and that he only loves and wants me.

Do you believe him?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:33 AM on November 13, 2013 [11 favorites]


He has said he wished I could become friends with this woman and learn some of the techniques from her.

Not that I think you need to learn new techniques, but why isn't *he* teaching you those techniques himself if they are so important to him? He's been on the receiving end; he knows what he likes. He can explain them to you, right?

I would sooooo not be OK with a partner urging me to take tutelage from an ex, sex worker or not. Yuuuuuck. It would be one thing if you were keen and suggested it yourself; but for him to put you in that really uncomfortable position is just a big fat boundary-busting move on his part.

Having said all that: I don't think you should deny him his friendship with this woman. They may both be perfectly able to put aside their former relationship and be occasional coffee-drinking buddies or whatever. It sounds like given the geographical distance, and the fact that *she* initiated the change in terms of the relationship (removing the sex from it), you have nothing to fear from her.

I think your fiance though could use a little head-check on how he is trying to integrate you into that friendship in a way that isn't cool with you.
posted by nacho fries at 8:40 AM on November 13, 2013 [32 favorites]


There are lines that you are not willing to cross. You know what they are, you've communicated these limits to him, and he doesn't feel the need to go along with your requests. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to want your soon-to-be-husband to stop seeing his former (girlfriend? mistress? prostitute?) socially. I completely disagree with the notion that your desire to have them stop seeing each other means that there is something wrong with you. Marriage by its nature is in part about drawing new lines around what is and is not acceptable. I would never, ever suggest to my wife that she learn anything about anything sexual from my ex, any ex, even the ones that she knows and likes.

Also, I know that it's considered polite and forward-thinking here to pretend that everything should be OK with everyone. Many of us I am sure have friends or acquaintances who have done some form of sex work or another. That doesn't make them bad people. But we all have limits of what we're comfortable dealing with, and if associating with a working prostitute squicks you out then one, you are far, far from being alone, and two, you don't have to justify that to anyone but yourself.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:42 AM on November 13, 2013 [14 favorites]


I don't think the problem is her. I think she seems to have good boundaries (at least from your question.) I think the problem is your fiance.

Now, are you justified in feeling uncomfortable? I don't know.

Maybe I'm going against the grain here but I would feel majorly uncomfortable. Here's what I get from your question that is maybe the real root of why you're uncomfortable. (It's what struck me as feeling weird.)

1) He told you many details about how she brought him to orgasm, but yet is still friends with her. Therefore anytime he mentions her or you see her, you may think of them in bed together. It seems like he may not have reinforced the fact that YOU are the only sexual object in his life (not just love object.)

2) He wants you to act more like her in bed. Not "Oh yeah I like when a woman does Y" or "It feels good when X" but possibly I get from your question that he said something more along the lines of "Dominatrix did X and I want you to do it so go ask her how."

That would make me crazy. Again, would I be justified crazy? Maybe, but I still would be. I would want my future husband to want me to do things in bed that I make special. Not something some other woman specifically did that I should get "tips" on. If he would have suggested that he likes BDSM and gave you a book or suggested a class, that's totally different than "Go learn if from the girl who got me off."

3) He goes out with her alone/last minute. He supports her endeavors like burlesque. Does he support your endeavors like this? Does he make special plans with you?

It seems from your question that maybe he doesn't show you the same honor as he does for this friend.

Maybe I'm going against the grain and understand where you might be coming from because I was in a relationship where my fiance's friends came first. Maybe it's biased me.

But, I think I understand where you are coming from. Next you need to talk to him about it.

"I don't mind you being friends with Dominatrix. However, I am uncomfortable and feel that you still hold her high in your mind as a top sexual experience. I want to be the top sexual experience for you. Instead of telling me to do things that she did, I want to learn my own signature bedroom moves. I love that you support your friends, but I need emotional support as well. I would rather take a class/read a book on BDSM or learn from you than be compared to an ex-sexual partner."

Maybe that's a good place to start.
posted by Crystalinne at 8:42 AM on November 13, 2013 [32 favorites]


PhoBWanKenobi: See, I see this differently. In that, it's okay for you to not be okay with him hanging out solo with a much younger ex-girlfriend who he was incredibly devoted to, whose initials are tattooed on him, and whose sexual relationship with him you know way, way, way too much about.

Exactly. Leave her profession out of it and have a discussion with your husband about what you both can agree is appropriate levels of interaction with exes. You need to work out some kind of compromise that you can both feel happy with. You should not feel bad for having a lower tolerance for this than he does, but you are going to have to ask each other some hard questions about what you can both live with and what you as a couple are going to do if you can't come to a mutually satisfactory compromise.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:44 AM on November 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


You are justified in feeling however you like about this relationship.
FWIW I would not be happy with this either.

It sounds like you expressed your discomfort early on and he remained friends with her.
However, you still got engaged and moved in together.

It does not seem fair to me that you are now trying to outright stop him from seeing her when he was upfront about the relationship all along and seems to tell you when he meets up with her.

Do you trust him? If not then you need to rethink your enagement.

If this is a deal breaker, then tell him now and break up.
posted by Snazzy67 at 8:45 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


You maybe need to work through your feelings about his past relationship, separately from whatever relationships are at work at present. Are you going to be OK marrying a guy who had that kind of relationship in his past? I'd like to think I would be, but it's a pretty complex thing for most people.
posted by amtho at 8:47 AM on November 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


I kind of think you shouldn't be with this guy. It doesn't sound like he treats you very respectfully. Everything else aside (and I do think it's crappy that you don't want to befriend a sex worker), I don't think that his way of responding to this situation or communicating his sexual desires or history to you is appropriate. And I don't blane you for not wanting him to be alone with her- he has her initials tattood on him for chrissakes.
posted by windykites at 8:50 AM on November 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


In most situations like this, AskMe would probably ask: "Is he open to you about their relationship?" "Is he okay with you coming along?" "Has he talked about you to her?" "Have you met them?" And it seems like your fiance is all of these things.

I put up a stink because I wasn’t invited, so to appease me he said I should come along as well. Which he knows I can’t do at short notice like this for logistical reasons.

Once, to make him happy, I agreed to join him for dinner with her and her husband

It sounds like he's interested and open for you to meet her, and that you're being the hesitant one because you view her occupation as distasteful, corrupting, and dangerous. When he invites you and you're busy, then you read it as manipulative; when he invites you and you're not busy, it sounds like you've been reluctant to meet anyhow.

It appears to me that you've decided that you're uncomfortable with this situation, no matter what your fiance does. Is there a solution to the situation that would make you feel more comfortable that would not entail him cutting contact?
posted by suedehead at 8:51 AM on November 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Just to clarify something for those not inTo kink, the "have her teach you to beat me" bit would sound outrageous in any other context than the kink world. There is a huge tradition of this kind of learning in the kink community. Some folks even describe their pedigree in "I learned to flog from Mistress Alexa and rope bondage from Daddy Mike". He can't teach you a good deal of things even if he was on the receiving end. He can teach you how to be on the receiving end, but not always how to dish it out. So this could come from a very loving place of "hey. I love you and want us to have a great sexual relationship. Here is how I get off and here is how we can do it together".
posted by munchingzombie at 8:52 AM on November 13, 2013 [15 favorites]


The sex worker thing seems like a red herring, if anything it makes it LESS likely that she would ever be interested in having an affair with him.

If you're uncomfortable with him hanging out with her alone though, then tell him. Your feelings are perfectly valid and he should be able to respect your wishes and discuss how to make you more comfortable. There aren't any universal rules about what is normal or what isn't. You guys can work out what is appropriate for your relationship.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:57 AM on November 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I can't tell if you're upset that he's friends with a sex worker (which in this case is not equivocal to a prostitute -- you perhaps recognize this, but it's worth pointing out) or if you're afraid that he's going to cheat with his ex. If it's the latter, don't forget that she is now married, which means that for anything to happen between the two of them, both your fiancé and his ex-mistress would have to both break the commitment they've made/are making to their spouse.
posted by me3dia at 9:02 AM on November 13, 2013


Oh, fuck no.

This is in no way similar to an ex-girlfriend, and you are entirely justified in being skeeved.

I have friends who are sex workers, and let me tell you, the idea of them being " friends" with their clients is the single suggestion most likely to promote hilarity. That is generally a bright line they draw. Any perceived friendship is only to increase tips or repeat clients. One of the things they are being paid for is the illusion of affection. It's not real- it is just a job.

But your fiance sounds wildly out of control obsessed with her, with really bad boundaries. You are not in a relationship with your sex worker any more than you are with your doctor because they feel your breasts. For him to get the initial of her professional name tattooed on his back is flat out starkers. Remember also that she cut off the professional relationship - "I'd rather be friends" is likely just a face saving move. And he invites her to his kid's birthday parties? Nonononono. Something stinks here, and it's not that this lady used to do sex work.
posted by corb at 9:05 AM on November 13, 2013 [37 favorites]


Just to clarify something for those not inTo kink, the "have her teach you to beat me" bit would sound outrageous in any other context than the kink world.

The OP implies she was not into this kind of kink before this relationship, so her fiancé should be dealing with her as someone who isn't immersed in the culture. It's ridiculous of him to expect her to just "get" something like, "please go work with my former sexual partner to learn how to better pleasure me."

I agree with the posters who are saying the real problem here is the fiancé has terrible boundaries. Anonymous, in so many cases it's actually the person you are in a relationship with who is causing you angst rather than the ex-whatever. It's common to project onto the ex but I think you and your fiancé need to talk this through without the friend's job being the main focus of the discussion.
posted by Squeak Attack at 9:20 AM on November 13, 2013 [16 favorites]


[This is a followup from the asker.]
munchingzombie is absolutely right about the kink context making the technique teaching suggestion much less outrageous.

Reading your responses has crystallized the problem for me: I feel embarrassed that my fiance is friends with this woman, ultimately not because she is a sex worker, although that still bothers me, but more because to my eyes she has much less of an investment in the friendship than he does. I question why he even thinks they are such close friends. A lot of the time the only reason he hears from her is because she's organizing an event and invites him to attend or needs to borrow his camera.

At the burlesque performance I was humiliated for him when I saw his enthusiasm shared by a couple of other single men in the audience of similar age who he guessed were probably clients. It made me sad that he viewed as a friend someone who used to charge him money to spend time with her.

He has said he regrets getting the tattoo and wants to get rid of it and assures me anything he's had in the past doesn't even come close to the depth of our relationship and especially our BDSM experience.

I do trust him but I just wish he would let go of this woman.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:23 AM on November 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


Here is what stood out to me: they ended their professional relationship when she got married, but she still sees other clients. Why would marriage end her professional relationship with him, but not others? That doesn't make any sense.

FWIW, I really don't see why you should be expected to be comfortable with this. You know about this woman's prior sexual relationship with your partner in great detail, and are expected to spend a lot of time around her, and he now has a visit with her tomorrow that you are clearly suspicious about.

Even if it is a convention in the kink community, he has explicitly said to you that he wants you to learn to be more like her. Again, you're not obligated to like this just because it's a convention in a community that you're not part of.

Sorry, but the pieces of this just don't fit together. And you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with. Framing it as nonsexual stuff doesn't change that.

I'm gonna say that again, because I think a lot of people are getting distracted by details here. The fact that she's a sex worker doesn't change the fact that you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with. The fact that this has to do with BDSM with doesn't change the fact that you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with. The fact that you say you don't want to be friends with a sex worker doesn't change the fact that you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with. The fact that she is a woman and he is close friends with her doesn't change the fact that you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with. The fact that some people think you're not progressive enough doesn't change the fact that you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with.

And the fact that it isn't clear exactly what that stuff is - other than including your partner's ex-girlfriend? (whose name is tattooed on his back) into your relationship, watching your partner's ex-girlfriend?'s performances (oh, but all that is so totally nonsexual), and learning BDSM techniques from her (oh, but that's normal so you better get with the program), that is, apart from that - doesn't change the fact that you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with.

Have I made my point yet? And I agree with corb, this reeks of incredibly bad boundaries and I don't blame you for not liking it.

Honestly, the entire relationship sounds humiliating and if I were you, I would take a step back and consider why you are prepared to agree to play second fiddle to the woman he apparently really wants. Sorry to put it so unkindly, but that is honestly what it looks like to me.
posted by tel3path at 9:24 AM on November 13, 2013 [37 favorites]


Having had time to have a bit of a think about this, here is what I came up with.

I don't think the issue is that she's a sex worker. I don't think the issue is even necessarily that they have that shared past and she's functionally an ex (though that is part of it). I think the fundamental issue is twofold:

1. That there is something that is a core part of his sexuality (BDSM), and it's something you're only starting to learn about but his ex is so good at it that she's done it for a living, and

2. That he has a tendency to be a bit of a bonehead and say or do things which don't take your feelings into account.

The fact that she's a sex worker is smoke. Her existence pushes some of your buttons, and that is what your brain is zeroing in on. It's an easy thing to judge her for, an easy way to feel superior to her. That's important, because she's hitting you right in the insecurities, and he's unintentionally making it worse.

He's making it worse by going on about her, by giving you the wet and sticky details of their sex life together, by saying he wishes she could teach you how to get him off (ugh), et cetera. The situation should really be framed as, "I'd really like it if we could explore doing some of the things I know I like in a kink context," and taken from there; instead, he's framing it as, "I'd really like it if you were more like my ex."

So here's what I suggest.

First: The relationship that currently exists between then is a friendship. Everything you describe about it sounds like friendship. I don't hear any inappropriate crossing of boundaries between the two of them. For this reason, you won't make any headway if you freak out when he meets her for drinks, and you need to loosen up about him seeing her alone. They're friends. If you don't trust this man, you should not be engaged to him. If you do trust him, then act like it. This won't be super hard, because the problem here is not one of trust being breached.

Second: He needs to learn the fine art of polite fiction. He needs to shut the fuck up about all the stuff they did together. He has the right to ask for what he wants, but he needs to stop framing it as, "this is a thing I really like that she used to do," and start just saying, "This is a thing I really like." Hell, he can even say he saw it in a porno and that he'd like to try it together. Again, polite fiction. He needs to employ it, and you need to allow him it. Convey to him that he's rhapsodizing about someone from his past and it makes you feel a little inadequate, and that he needs to stop. His friendship with her is in the present. His sex with her is in the past, and it needs to stay there.

Third: He is not allowed to say he wants you to learn from her. If you live in a city of any size, there are often adult toy stores (the nice ones, not the skeevy ones) which teach classes (everyone involved is fully dressed and no actual sexual interaction takes place). Or get instructional videos, or books, if you want to expand your horizons together. But he needs to shut up about involving her in it. Pronto.

Fourth: In fact, he's not allowed to compare you to her at all. Ever. This is 101 shit.

Fifth: What the fuck with that tattoo. Honestly, that would bother me more than anything else here. Especially if he's into pegging - what, you're supposed to plow him and look at his back and see her initials? F that S. Lasers ahoy!

Sixth: He needs to shut up about her, but so do you. Your issue is kind of with their past but mostly with the way he talks about that past - not with her.

Seventh: Don't say things like, "I'm not interested in socializing with a sex worker." Don't use the term or concept of sex worker pejoratively. If it's bad that she's a sex worker, what does it say that he's a john - and you're engaged to him!

Start with the above. Lay ground rules and keep this a process of open communication with him. Expect her to be a sore spot for a little while. Couples counseling wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Good luck.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:28 AM on November 13, 2013 [33 favorites]


Oh. That's a really interesting clarification, and actually a much harder question to answer. Would you feel OK with him just sort of leaving you out of their interactions, so you don't have to come in contact with this behavior you feel is embarrassing? You should still have the discussion with him, but focus on how his actions make you feel. "I feel embarrassed and sad when you drop whatever you are doing to see her, as I don't feel she is as good a friend to you as you are to her." It's going to be a tough discussion, but you should be honest with him.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:29 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Per your update:

Nobody wants to be with not just a mark, but someone else's mark. Those single guys in the crowd cheering that he is watching and evaluating whether they also are clients (but not special, like him) - those guys are also marks.

I'd suggest that if he claims to feel really bad about that tattoo, that any and all resources that he would spend on supporting her stuff go towards paying for tattoo removal. Like Famous Monster says, you should not have to be looking at that while you have sex.
posted by corb at 9:34 AM on November 13, 2013 [14 favorites]


you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with

tel3path, I get your point, but the OP has not stated that they are not into BDSM, only that they discovered it through their fiance. There is an extreme and incredibly important difference between being introduced to something through someone else and being coerced into doing it.

It made me sad that he viewed as a friend someone who used to charge him money to spend time with her.

OP, it sounds like you're projecting a lot of your own insecurities about your partner onto this woman. Stop doing that. Own your shit. If you're unhappy that your partner has had some sexual experiences outside of his relationship with you, then that is your problem to deal with. How this woman conducts her relationships with her friends and clients is none of your business.

Here's some advice from someone who has also recently entered into a relationship with someone who is more experienced with BDSM (and a sex worker, fwiw): find a kink-friendly relationship counselor and discuss how you can deal with your jealousy around your partner's history with BDSM. Deal with your problems. Stop throwing them at other people.
posted by fight or flight at 9:34 AM on November 13, 2013


And you're clearly getting pressured into sexual stuff that you're not comfortable with.

but the OP has not stated that they are not into BDSM

Where did I say that the BDSM was it? I didn't. You could take BDSM out of this question and still have the same problem.
posted by tel3path at 9:38 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reading your update - yeah, that makes sense, and I understand that feeling. So what you need to do is figure out whether colors your respect for him as a person, and if so, what that means for your relationship as a whole.
posted by something something at 9:42 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Others have aptly covered the judgmental nature of your question so I'll just comment on one part of your story. It was cosmically stupid of him to tell you, his fiancee, that you should hang out with her to learn techniques. That's the perfect way to set up a jealous and insecure dynamic between you and her. That one statement manages to imply that your techniques are inferior to hers, that he misses his sexual contact with her, and that he wants you to change to be more like her. I would feel insecure, too. Jeez. Whatever else is going on here, he is feeding into the problem when he says stuff like this. Do you think he might be doing that on purpose? Is he flattered by your jealousy, possibly creating drama to feel more loved or attractive?
posted by Lieber Frau at 9:59 AM on November 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Here's the thing: he can INTELLECTUALLY figure out that she was working, or that she's using him, or that it was dumb to get the tattoo...

...but being the submissive or bottom in a BDSM-type activity can really bond you to someone in a way that is seriously hard to rationalize yourself out of. It makes you do stupid shit like invite someone you're paying to bone you to your kid's birthday party. It feels like a really serious connection for a lot of reasons that I won't go into and that feeling is hard to shake.

I'd try not to look at it as him being kind of a dope because he's kind of a dope, and try to look at it as "this situation would make a lot of people into dopes".

That said, I'd be pissed that it seems like he thinks he still has a chance. Whether or not he thinks that, I'd be putting the kibosh on things that give that appearance.
posted by the young rope-rider at 10:10 AM on November 13, 2013 [15 favorites]


If you're not into BDSM your sex life will probably become a bone of contention in your relationship. Seriously, if he's asking you to learn stuff from her, frankly it already is.

If your fiance suggested you talk to an ex-girlfriend about the way she gave blow jobs, wouldn't we all be saying DTMFA? I would.

You have problems in this relationship that aren't "My fiance is friends with a sex worker."

Explore that.

I wouldn't touch this guy with a barge pole.

You have my permission to end it with him, because he won't end it with her.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:14 AM on November 13, 2013 [19 favorites]


Also, you are justified in asking him not to spend limited resources on her. That includes his time and his money. He is justified to say no, of course, but your lives are intertwined and it is not out of line for you to expect to have a say in how he continues to "support" her ventures.

On a personal note, while I think that there are a lot of valid ways to approach this, I would share your discomfort and be very unhappy at the continuing "friendship".
posted by the young rope-rider at 10:15 AM on November 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


Well, the more I think about this, the less okay with it I would be. Did she encourage/allow him to get the tattoo of her initial? That is just...it just shows really poor judgement on her part and not a lot of empathy for him, and I would really share your feelings of distaste for her as a person in this situation.
posted by the young rope-rider at 10:20 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


This struck me as similar to saying he was friends with his former therapist. People do become friends with their therapists but taking a professional relationship personal is fraught with all kinds of stuff and yes, I would find myself questioning my relationship with someone who is so emotionally involved with someone they used to pay. Is there something they like about crossing boundaries or being a little inappropriate? I don't think taking the other person's inventory too much is good in a relationship BUT is sounds like there is a power dynamic there that is magic to him somehow. He's marrying you, so maybe he doesn't want that in his everyday life now, but this seems like something to sort out.
posted by BibiRose at 10:35 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


If she's still seeing other clients but not him, maybe she's uncomfortable with the relationship, too. If that turns out to be true, maybe you and she could, together, tell him that it's time for him to completely end that relationship and focus solely on you. You could be ceremonial about it or something. He may be the kind of person that responds to that more than to hopes and hints.
posted by amtho at 10:51 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just to clarify something for those not inTo kink, the "have her teach you to beat me" bit would sound outrageous in any other context than the kink world.

No, dom in the kink world here, and it would be pretty annoying through to skeezed out if my gentleman told me to to go to an ex or an ex pro. And it sounds like he's still a little too enmeshed in her and his desire for her domliness.

Maybe, just maybe, if they also were one of those 'teach a work shop!' types I'd be less inclined to raise eyebrows. This is actually one of those instances where I might also go icky-icky-icky about the sex worker thing, although this is the baggage between the non and pros, A lot of us non-paid dom types get really frustrated with the frankly objectifying standards that bleed over from the heavy expectation of sex work as part of the scene. (Although I will say the problem is not the sex workers, but the sleazy bloody clients and would be clients, who think my sexual orientation is a profession).

It can, be from a non-pro's perspective, frustrating to be treated like you're supposed to have the resources to act like the carefully curated persona of a professional. So I have sympathies- I happily know several prodoms and respect them as people, but I still almost disqualified a gentleman caller when I found out he'd seen a pro in the past because of the instinctive reaction that he was going to have to do some unlearning now or I might get given unwanted comparisons like the OP.

So keep in mind that there's a lot of pressure on women like me to take cash and act like a pro, which means that scenarios that are half professional/half not pop up.

You're allowed to have boundaries. This whole thing looks like a boundaries minefield that has gone beyond client/sex worker and actually one of the things I noted was that when she married he was a client that got dropped and she was happy to be involved in his offspring's life, not behaviour that would be okay if she were just a therapist massage or otherwise. It's *possible* her side of it is purely mercenary, but she's not 'just a sex worker' in his perception, she's an ex.

Neither the poor OP, nor the fiance appear to be handling this well. This needs to be sorted out.
posted by Phalene at 10:54 AM on November 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


[This is another followup from the asker.]
the young rope-rider I think gets to the bottom of my fears: how do I know he has in fact extricated himself from his submission to her, even if intellectually he knows he belongs to me now? And yes, she did encourage the tattoo, it was a badge of honor he was allowed to get after performing certain challenges, shall we say. And only a few months later she ended the professional relationship, and got married.

He has said many times that what he had with her was play, albeit intense, and what he has with me is real, even if we're not entirely where we want to be yet in terms of the M/s dynamic. He has also said he wants a tattoo marking his submission to me, but I am opposed to tattoos so I had him get a Prince Albert instead. We are happy to grow together in every way and he has said he would be happy even if I don't end up becoming the full-time Mistress we both fantasize about.

We haven't discussed this woman at all for many months, but there is always tension on my end when her name pops up. I've tried to be open about my feelings and I joke that my jealousy should be flattering to him as I'm not usually the jealous type. I've tried to accept her in his life - I don't have a problem with female friends, or other exes of his, but she seems to have a hold on him like none of the others (or at least I see something there).

I know when I've been infatuated with someone I wanted to hang out and be friends with them even after the relationship ended, but once I was over them I would lose interest and not feel the need to give them any more of my time.

So I'm wondering if he's still got feelings for her, or a sense of submission, or some other unacceptable attachment he can't shake.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:58 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]



So I'm wondering if he's still got feelings for her, or a sense of submission, or some other unacceptable attachment he can't shake.


Yes.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:02 AM on November 13, 2013 [19 favorites]


You know the answer to your last sentence, OP. It's within your rights to say, "I am uncomfortable with this relationship, and I am asking you to end it."
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 11:17 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


OP, this has clearly been eating at you for some time and will continue to do so unless you start communicating to your partner the extent of your issues surrounding your relationship. Are you willing to try couples counselling? You can find (and this is vital) kink aware therapists through directories like Kink Aware Professionals Directory in the US or Pink Therapy if you're in the UK.
posted by fight or flight at 11:18 AM on November 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


the young rope-rider I think gets to the bottom of my fears: how do I know he has in fact extricated himself from his submission to her,
Because he says so. If you don't believe the things he says, why are you engaged?
posted by spaltavian at 11:42 AM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Am I justified in being uncomfortable about this friendship? I've now told him outright that I don't want him seeing her alone any more. He says I'm being paranoid.

You are absolutely justified, though not because of anything about her.

But because his relationship with her as a dominatrix has never ended, it has only been transformed from a relationship in which certain acts are performed into one in which those same acts are withheld, yet with no necessary or even probable loss of intensity.
posted by jamjam at 11:49 AM on November 13, 2013 [18 favorites]


I would be uncomfortable with my significant other having this sort of relationship with any ex, especially one where the connection was obviously so intense (he has her initials tattooed on him?! And hasn't gotten it taken care of?!). I don't think exes need to cut off all contact by any means -- the occasional coffee to catch up, sending each other Christmas cards, hanging out and being friendly in group settings, etc. = totally fine. One-on-one meetings involving alcohol and going to see her strip/dance in a sexual manner? ASKING YOU TO GET SEX TIPS FROM HER, regardless of the context? No way, regardless of her profession! Perhaps some people would be fine with this, and that's cool for them, but I think 99% of people would be very uncomfortable with it. You are not weird or wrong to feel like something is wrong here.

Honestly, this would be a dealbreaker for me, but you'll have to decide for yourself where your comfort level is. If nothing else, he clearly seems to be putting this relationship/"friendship" ahead of you, and that's a huge problem.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:00 PM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


As a former professional Domme, I must tell you....

The tattoo must go.

I doubt it's nefarious, but there is a SUPER deep bond there. It's probably better if he fades on her entirely.

Either way, he should not be wearing her brand. Sorry.
posted by jbenben at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2013 [17 favorites]


Also, everything jamjam says.
posted by jbenben at 12:14 PM on November 13, 2013


I think you really need to cut this off at the pass. You can tell him how you liked learning about his past and the people he knew, but now that the two of you share a household then you are the one in charge. You are not a service top to emulate this other women. You don't need tips (and if you do, you find them in your own way). You are your own person with your own ideas. So now it is time to eliminate these extraneous people and focus on the current relationship. They would not welcome your input into their relationships, so why let them influence what you have with your partner? Make new friends locally without the long shadow of this past pay-for-play arrangement. Good luck!
posted by 99percentfake at 12:41 PM on November 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


I don't think he's necessarily devoted to her in any way beyond a fantasy, but I agree that the tattoo has to go. This is a boundary issue for him. And everything 99percentfake said.
posted by heyjude at 1:26 PM on November 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


1.) I have friends who are sex workers, and let me tell you, the idea of them being " friends" with their clients is the single suggestion most likely to promote hilarity. That is generally a bright line they draw. Any perceived friendship is only to increase tips or repeat clients. One of the things they are being paid for is the illusion of affection. It's not real- it is just a job.

Sex worker here, this is complete bullshit. I would love to meet these incredibly rare and special snowflake sex workers who can manage to not become emotionally entangled with their longtime clients.

2.) I, however, am not interested in socializing with a sex worker.

Okay, on first read, this sounds like an ugly prejudice of yours that you should get over. But when I read the context? That the "socializing" your fiance wants to happen is going to involve her teaching you BDSM techniques? That's not socializing with a sex worker as friends and exes, that's being a client. It is completely and 100% within your rights to refuse to be the client of a pro-domme on the behest of your fiance. It sounds like you're uncomfortable with their friendship because he's not treating her like a friend, he's treating her like a service professional whose services he's still interested in.

Also, yes, the tattoo needs to go.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 1:37 PM on November 13, 2013 [10 favorites]


I also want to quote 99percentflake for emphasis: You are not a service top to emulate this other woman.

Your fiance has given you way too much graphic information about his sex life with this woman, and his hopes that you can emulate her in bed, and it sounds like he's doing it out of a sense of entitlement and detachment and lack of boundaries that is an unfortunately frequent feature of the (pro and non-pro) kink scene. This is unacceptable behavior when talking about a prior girlfriend and when talking about a prior domme. If you want to learn about pegging, check out tutorials or go to a workshop. You are not OK involving his old domme in your current partnership and that's a line that you have every right to draw.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 1:42 PM on November 13, 2013 [14 favorites]


I think he's got some hot fantasy about you and her and him. And he probably likes your jealousy, as well. I wouldn't go for a show-down, and I wouldn't react when he brings her up. But, since he liked to be dominated, let him know your requirements--get rid of the tat, no meeting for drinks, and she's not on the guest list. Feel free to put your black patent spike-heeled foot down.
posted by Ideefixe at 2:03 PM on November 13, 2013 [10 favorites]


1) I wouldn't want to be with a man who expects me to watch him slobber and lust after an ex, publicly, at a burlesque show.

2) I wouldn’t want to be with a man who has a tattoo of an ex's name, and is still continuing to see that person.

3) If my instinct told me that something was up between my partner and his ex, I would trust it, because my gut has been right far more times than it's been wrong. Even if I can't logically identify the exact reason why the situation is triggering me.

4) You're allowed to break up with someone for any reason, and you don't have to justify it to anyone. You have agency, and you can make the relationship choices that make you happy.
posted by Shouraku at 2:49 PM on November 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


tel3path said: Honestly, the entire relationship sounds humiliating

i know squat about these sorts of relationships so maybe i'm wrong here but isn't this part of the point? so, you are being asked by your fiance to share in his humiliation by going to the burlesque show or whatever else he wants to include you in with her. are you cool with being/feeling humiliated? i sure wouldn't be...
posted by wildflower at 3:04 PM on November 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


You have had a lot of very good advice up above and heck it's probably a more sensible idea to sit him down and have a long and serious talk to him and tell him what you said here, but something stood out to me and the part of my brain I like to call my Inner Domme (non professional and for recreational use with consenting adults only) would not have stood for any of this shit.

You mention that you both fantasise about having a full time Mistress/sub relationship I am wondering if this might not be time to play the Mistress card so to speak. In relationships I've had that have had BDSM components I have not liked sharing my "toys/boyfriends/subs" with other people and just reading your made the litte Domme in my head go "Excuse me why is he being all subby to her when he has a perfectly good Mistress at home, if he's wanting to look all puppy dog eyes at someone it should be you."

I don't know how you and your husband like to play, but you talk about you both liking the idea of you being his Mistress full time, now might be a good time to start acting like one. Instead of causing a stink, you simply say no, in your best Mistress voice you say no, you can then punish him for thinking of going or reward him for being good and not going whatever works for the way you guys like to play. And then set some ground rules about how and when he can go and see her. You have to be present, he has to be wearing say a cock cage under his clothes that only you have the key too, whatever.

I would be looking at getting a tattoo that related to you over the top of the one he has from her if he was my guy to symbolically replace her, but at the very least removing it is a priority.

Again, I know this may not be the best way to handle things, but to be honest it's probably what I would do in a similar circumstance.

Also really do sit down and talk about it, because maybe he's not getting something he needs from his relationship with you and the chance to run around and serve his ex is some little way might be giving it to him.
posted by wwax at 3:52 PM on November 13, 2013 [17 favorites]


And yes, she did encourage the tattoo, it was a badge of honor he was allowed to get after performing certain challenges, shall we say. And only a few months later she ended the professional relationship, and got married.

Yeah, you in no way should feel bad or wrong or "off" about not liking her, this situation, or this relationship. This was horrible judgement on both their parts; he at least has the excuse of being the bottom.

Stand your ground and insist that he keep your comfort in mind.
posted by the young rope-rider at 4:59 PM on November 13, 2013 [8 favorites]


another thing i'm uncomfortable with is how this started out as a paid, sexual relationship for your fiance and now has crossed over into a friendship. if BDSM is supposed to only be sexual in nature, and i have no idea if it is or not, then that would really be muddying the waters of your romantic life. of course life is not so easily compartmentalized as some try to make it at times.
posted by wildflower at 5:45 PM on November 13, 2013


From an anonymous commenter:
I'm a former sex worker, with experience doing domme work as well. As a former sex worker, I would never include a former john in my circle, socially or otherwise. Sex work thrives on secrecy and non-articulated needs and wants. Most johns strike me as unhappy in some way. This is my opinion. As someone who did sex work, I don't trust your fiancé. Frankly, I don't trust people who pay for sex period, and would never date someone who did. You are well within your rights to terminate this relationship. Easier now than when in wedlock. And better for your heart and well-being. Choose yourself. The guy is clearly not intimate with you in the ways that you need, and I'm not talking about sex. He is elsewhere, and has been for a while.

Again, I do not trust men who pay for sex. This one is not good. I don't trust this situation, and I don't trust him.
posted by taz at 10:42 PM on November 13, 2013 [8 favorites]


I do trust him but I just wish he would let go of this woman.

I don't think you do, not where she's concerned.
posted by moody cow at 4:57 AM on November 14, 2013 [2 favorites]


He has also said he wants a tattoo marking his submission to me, but I am opposed to tattoos

You need to do something about this.

Figure out what sort of tattoo removal techniques are out there that he consents to having done, what's medically advisable for him and in the budget.

Tell him, in a very ceremonial way that makes it clear you require this as part of his submission, that he is yours now and will be having the tattoo removed.

Even if he can't medically/financially have it removed, and having it covered over with other work wouldn't be acceptable to you, you could use henna on it every month or figure out some sort of symbolic removal process. He could also get a "tattoo" without ink and have similar physical sensations to being tattooed.

Work out the best way to do this so as to imbue his thoughts on the remains of the tattoo as a mark of submission to you, instead of a mark he carries on his body of his attachment to her.
posted by yohko at 1:19 PM on November 14, 2013 [3 favorites]


I wonder whether part of what's bothering you is that he just hasn't been an adult in his relationship to her. Without any judgment on what gets people off, he seems to have been unable to draw and understand boundaries between his personal and his professional sex life, was unable to maintain perspective at the time (it doesn't take a genius to predict that a future partner might be disturbed by a tattoo of any former fling let alone something like this), and is still unable to tell the difference between a professional contact, a lover, and a friend.

It does sound like a crush to me and it also sounds like the crush of someone without the maturity to handle it in a grown up way. All of that just doesn't bode well - judgment and maturity are vital for being in a real partnership with somebody.

It sounds like he needs to grow up, and sub or not, this part of growing up is really his job and his responsibility.

It also sounds like you could use some time and space to clarify your own emotions and expectations. Just the difference between my understanding of your situation when in your original post and how it unfolds over your updates - it's so vast.

I would strongly recommend at least putting the engagement on hold, and both of you each pursuing therapy individually, and possibly together.
posted by Salamandrous at 5:41 PM on November 14, 2013 [2 favorites]


Why on earth would you want more 'training' in being his Dom, when he's being such a crappy submissive?

Seriously, if he actually wanted to be owned by you, he wouldn't be treating you as second best, and still hung up on her, which he kind of is (for all that kink is poly friendly, domination tends to be very hierarchical - you generally only play with other Doms if your Dom says it's ok).

You have no obligation to play by his 'kink rules', but if he really wanted you to Dom, you could tell him he has to ask your permission before seeing any ex-doms. He'd get her tattoo removed and yours added, and so many other signs.


But yeah, I can understand that most of this is being bothered by the one sided 'relationship' he doesn't have with her. :P
Even if he doesn't really need that 'dom' thing, he's had an extremely intense relationship with her, in a kind of addictive way, and it will be hard for him to shake it. Tell him he needs to make a better effort to appear hung up on you, and not her, at least, if he really wants you to engage more.
posted by Elysum at 7:32 PM on November 14, 2013 [6 favorites]


Hi, I'm a professional mistress in the UK. I've also been involved in BDSM since I was 19 years old. I'm 34 now. My response to you comes from my perspective as a professional, as well as my years of experience practicing lifestyle D/s.

Professional stuff first: There are certainly sex workers who use the client relationship and a client's submissive feelings as a way to get more money out of them. There are also sex workers who don't let their client and friend circles overlap.

However, there is a broad spectrum of behaviour among sex workers. I am friends with clients - one of my most stalwart regular clients came to a munch I organise in my personal capacity this week, and was made welcome by all; another former client - a wonderful, crafty, creative man - is now a business partner in a few ventures. Many, many people make lasting friendships and relationships at work - why should sex workers be any different?

As a professional, one of my 'selling points' is that I am bringing my lifestyle experience to my work, and can give a client as authentic experience as possible within the limits of a professional relationship. Because of the intense emotions that such a relationship can engender, it is important that I'm as ethical as possible.

If a client wants to practice serious D/s with me, they stop being a client. This isn't to say, though, that they don't wind up serving me in other ways - providing transport, specialised skills such as leathercraft or plumbing, or shooting photos or video.

The big red flag in your partner's behaviour seems to be that he still seems to be happy serving his former Mistress. This leads into the D/s bit of my answer. That tattoo would indicate to me that there was a deep and meaningful relationship between the two. Even if this relationship was asymmetrical, and your partner's friend invested less than he did, it is quite likely that he invested a lot. If I were his present Mistress - which by your language in the responses posted by cortex, OP, you seem to be - I would be rather miffed at the emotional infidelity he is displaying by maintaining his friendship with her. As Elysum says he's being a rather crappy submissive.

Now, your partner says that what he has with you is real. You seem to want to be his Mistress. (If you don't want to, probably best to tell him so and have a conversation about that.) Your partner is being rather crap at this whole D/s business by telling you you're being paranoid when you give him a perfectly clear instruction not to be alone with her anymore. Seriously, the mind boggles - you've got every right to pull him up on it, have a conversation and spell out what your concerns are and what you want to happen with regards to her from now forward.

It would probably also be useful to say, in this conversation, that your concern is with their emotional intimacy, not with her profession. Another good idea might be to ask your partner what his needs are. What did, and does, this friend provide that he needs, and are there ways of getting those needs met that don't involve creeping emotional infidelity with a former Mistress?

Like all subs and slaves he has to learn the difference between his wants and his needs. If he needs to be properly dominated/enslaved/owned/etc then in the long run, winnowing out the wants, clarifying the needs, and building a relationship with you where he puts you first is what he needs to be doing. This is an aspect of the hard work of D/s relationships but it's worth it in the long run.

There are wonderful print, web, social media, and real-world resources on everything from how to conduct specific BDSM play safely to how to effectively conduct full time D/s relationships in the real world out there - PM or email me any time if you would like info on anything in particular.
posted by Mistress at 8:35 AM on November 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


as a lifestyle submissive, my sir only had to hint that he'd prefer an ex-dom never darken my door again and it was done. putting your foot down about a former dom is perfectly acceptable in the D/s world. i agree with the last few posters who suggest that he's being a badly behaved sub (maybe intentionally - to get you to lay down the law) and there's no reason for you to be wishy-washy. make your demands known. you aren't being controlling or paranoid or jealous, you're being his mistress.

you might also want to do some reading about "topping from the bottom." it's something i've seen a lot of subs do (and i've done myself) when with keepers who don't have a strong enough hand.

all the other sex worker stuff is window dressing. although, if you are feeling like you'd want some instruction from a giver rather than a receiver, you can hire another dominatrix for that purpose (and, were it me, i'd do it in secret so my sub couldn't fetishize my education unless that was part of the game).
posted by nadawi at 7:55 AM on November 27, 2013 [3 favorites]


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