We're fine, mom

November 12, 2013 7:30 AM

(stop worrying about my husband's employment)

Though I get along well with my mother, we aren't complete BFFs, not because of any feuds but because our lives, interests and priorities inhabit separate worlds. We live several states away from one another and only talk once a week.

I have a well-paying professional job and my partner, whom I have been with for nearly a decade, is a serial entrepreneur. Though for many years of our relationship we struggled with the imbalance of financial burden and also external success indicators between us, we have finally reached a place where we are comfortable and happy. I do not expect him to contribute financially and he contributes in nearly every non-financial way (often handling the whole of the household duties). I am more than satisfied with the arrangement and will consider any of his entrepreneurial success a bonus.

My mother is unable to come to terms with this, though the situation has been this way for years. She periodically reaches out to me with genuine concern that I am being "taken advantage of". This rubs me the wrong way for many reasons, particularly the idea that I am unaware of my own situation, the idea that it is any of her business and the idea that I am unhappy (I am not!). Furthermore, I bristle at it because I strongly suspect if it were the other way around (him working in a professional full-time job while I tended the home and worked on a side project) she would find that perfectly acceptable. For the record, I have never asked for or received any money from her, so my decisions are not affecting her financially whatsoever.

The rub is that a few years ago, my husband defaulted on his student loan debt. Since then we have been financially responsible, paying down debt. I have an excellent credit rating and that is the lone blemish on our record. However, some debt collection agency somehow obtained my mother's number and calls her regularly regarding my husband's debt. We have tried our best to put an end to these calls, but every several months one gets through, and sets her off again.

Worse, she handles these messages via email, pleading for secrecy on the matter despite the fact that I have reminded her we share an email interface and he likely sees the messages as soon as I do.

I have 3 asks:

1. Please help me set boundaries with my mother. I want to let her know that I appreciate her support, but continually acting like I am an abused spouse who constantly needs to be offered refuge is exhausting and driving a wedge between an otherwise healthy mother/daughter relationship. Should I explain the details to her? Go the Miss Manners "I'm sorry that will not be possible" wall-building route?

2. How do I keep my husband aware of the conversation without making him angry with my mother? Even if I didn't tell him, he sees the emails. He is sensitive to this kind of criticism and is as hard on himself over it as anyone else is. They just don't see that side of it.

3. (Bonus question) is there any way I can keep these debt collection agencies from calling my mother's house, once and for all?

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (17 answers total)

"Mom, I think you intended to raise me to be a strong, independent woman who would not allow herself to be taken advantage of. And I think you did a terrific job at that. Hubby and I are happy, and isn't that all anyone can hope for?"
posted by Etrigan at 7:32 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

1. Time for a straight up, there's-something-we-need-to-discuss conversation with your mom. Tell her everything you told us here.

2. This is between you and your mother. Your husband should be shielded from her criticism. You should make fake "bounces" of her email and direct her to your personal email. Let her know ahead of time that you are shutting that email down. Send her emails to that address straight to the trash with a filter. If she asks you about them, direct her to your personal email.

3. I think you need to sick a lawyer on them. Find the company doing this and send a desist letter with the help of a lawyer. If the calls continue, sue the bastards.
posted by amanda at 7:37 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

As for #3, the company that may be doing this may not be legitimate. After I was completely and totally out of debt, my parents (who had co-signed some of my student loans that I had once been late paying) kept getting calls from an agency claiming to try to collect a debt.

But even though I had been delinquent in the past, I knew I had no debts and I got VERY self righteous about it and tracked them down. Turns out they were a total fraud and were trying to call relatives of folks who were once in debt and had been delinquent, thinking that someone would just send them a check to get them to stop calling.

I'm not saying that that's what is happening in your situation. I'm also not suggesting that you lie to your mother and say that is what is happening. Because you shouldn't lie to your mother. Except when you should. Your call.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:43 AM on November 12, 2013 [7 favorites]

I don't know you and I'm sort of wondering how you got mixed up with someone who can't get his financial shit together. I can only imagine what your mother is thinking.

First of all, get your own email account just for messages from Mom. Your husband doesn't need to see that stuff.

Secondly take Mom out to lunch for a heart-to-heart. "I know that you're worried about me and that you believe that my relationship with Simon is troubled because of his work situation and his money problems. I want to assure you that our relationship works for us. I promise, if I need to, I will reach out to you for moral support if anything changes. I don't feel taken advantage of in my marriage. It's not traditional, but it works for us. I'm sorry you're intercepting collection calls. I'll do what I can to get them to stop. Trust me, we're addressing those issues and you don't have anything to worry about on that account. To that end, it's not healthy for you to worry so much about me, especially when I'm stabile and happy. Please, for your own sake, let's never speak of this again. Don't send emails, don't bring it up on phone calls. I love you and I respect your opinion, but on this matter, you have to trust me that I have my own interests at heart. If you can't abide by this simple request, I'll have to block your communications"

Now, if I were your Mom, I'd still worry and I'd disbelieve you, because if you had the situation in hand, I wouldn't be getting calls. But I'd shut up about it.

It is food for thought however. Do you really believe that if your genders were reversed that it would be okay for one spouse to support the other, when the other is a drain on financial resources?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:51 AM on November 12, 2013 [5 favorites]

#3 - yeah, likely a scam/illegal attempt at debt collection.

Depending where you are at with the debt (paid/unpaid) google for instructions or hire a lawyer to write a letter.
posted by jbenben at 8:00 AM on November 12, 2013

2. How do I keep my husband aware of the conversation 

Why make him aware at all? It doesn't benefit you or him.
posted by Kruger5 at 8:01 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

1. Please help me set boundaries with my mother.

Figure out what you'll do if she brings it up again. Tell her that that's what you're going to do if she brings it up again. If she brings it up again, do it.
posted by jon1270 at 8:03 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think it's really important to stop your mother getting these collection phone calls. We used to keep getting calls for debt that was not even for us, but for someone with the same last name as my partner. It was similar to the situation Mike McNamara describes. These people were being paid to make calls and didn't care who they were calling. I also got calls at one point regarding a downstairs neighbor's debt. Such calls are often quite scary sounding, and it may be that your mother is truly shaken when she gets them. When the calls about the guy with the same last name started coming, it made me doubt the state of my partner's finances even though, to my knowledge, he has always paid his bills on time. I can well understand how it might make your mother worry. You should find out who is doing it and really aggressively complain; that is how we got it to stop.
posted by BibiRose at 8:05 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

I've been in pretty much every wage-earning situation possible in my long partnership with my husband: we make about the same / I make more / he makes more / I make nearly nothing / he makes nearly nothing. The one thing we've managed to avoid so far (knock wood!!) is neither of us making any money. We adjust slightly; when one of us has less income and more free time, that one does more of the household, shopping and cooking stuff. And we've been blessed to be really, honestly happy and comfortable together in every version. This is rare enough to be like winning the [big, insane, mega] lottery, as far as I'm concerned.

My parents don't bug me, but that's what I'd tell them: "I got ridiculously, insanely lucky twice in my life: with my parents, and with my husband." I'd say, "I'm happy. I'm loved and cherished. I'm loving and cherishing. I'm one of the luckiest people in the entire world; would you rather that my combined household income be somewhat higher instead? I love you, and I believe you want me to be happy, but I need you to trust me when I tell you that my life with my husband is what makes me happy. I love you, now stop it."
posted by taz at 8:05 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

While you try to address #3 directly with the company calling, whether they are legit or not, it might also help to give your mother a scripted response for them. Those people can be brutal on the phone and it can be very alarming.

"Do not call here again. If you have further inquiries, you may direct them to [either you or else preferably your legal counsel]. I will be reporting these calls as harassment if I receive them again. Remove my number from this file immediately."
posted by juliplease at 8:07 AM on November 12, 2013 [8 favorites]

For Mom: build that wall. No explanations of your situation, no trying to reason with her (you've already tried that for the last decade!), no details whatsoever: just a repeated-unto-infinity "We're fine, Mom" or "That won't be possible", depending on the situation. Don't bother responding to her prying emails: just send them straight to the trash. If she tries this via the phone, tell her once that you will not have this conversation with her; if she brings it up again anyway (which she will), gently but immediately disengage: "I'm sorry Mom, but I told you I will not discuss this with you; goodbye" and then hang up. It'll be hard at first, but you've got to be strong and never, ever give in, because once you do you've lost.

Also, make it clear to her that other than what she got him for Christmas, you do not and will not keep secrets from your husband.

As for the collection agency: lawyer up. Even just a good strong letter to them from a lawyer, detailing how it's illegal to share his personal information with someone like your mother who has never had anything whatsoever to do with your husband's student loan. Asking your mother to ignore the calls isn't going to work: she probably enjoys getting involved like that, and there's nothing you can do to comtrol what she does with her phone in her home.... you can only control what your loan company does.
posted by easily confused at 8:09 AM on November 12, 2013

You have to consistently refuse to give her positive feedback when she criticizes your husband. If she gets into it, you have to say, "Mom, I'm not discussing our financial matters with you. So, how are Suzy and John down the street doing?" If she brings it up again, say, "I'm not discussing that. If you want to keep discussing that, I'm going to have to hang up the phone." Refuse to engage.

I don't think you should get in the habit of hiding emails from your husband. Let them be, and he can open them if he wishes. If he knows that you are consistently going to the bat for him, I think that should satisfy any possible concerns he might have about your mother's opinion of him - just do everything possible to make it clear she cannot, and will not threaten your relationship or disparage your husband.
posted by Unangenehm at 8:40 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

What I think is legitimate: for your mother to say, "You need to take the initiative, over and over if necessary, to stop debt collectors from calling me about your debt." Receiving calls from debt collectors about someone else's debt is a large burden to carry, modified somewhat here if it really does only happen one single time every few months. If it happens every few months and goes on for a long time, however, with many calls, your mother has every right to be angry, and I think you have an obligation to continue, patiently, to help her put an end to that.

What I don't think is legitimate: for your mother to take debt collection calls as an excuse to pry into your life. I think you did a great job of explaining here why it upsets you when she insists on opening these conversations, and I think you'd be wise to tell it to her as much like this as you can, if you haven't already: it makes you feel undermined, it's misplaced in that you're not unhappy, and you feel like it's gendered in the sense that you doubt she'd be as bothered by a relationship in which a husband were supporting you.

But I've got to say to you, honestly, that your mother may never, ever be comfortable with your husband having defaulted on his debt if (and I can't really tell from your question) he's not currently working with those lenders to pay it back. I can't tell whether you're saying you're paying it down as well as you can, or you're paying it back on a plan, or what. But people have all kinds of really emotional stuff tied up with debt, carrying debt, and paying back debt, and if your husband is taking the attitude that the student loan debt will have to be written off and he'll simply go forth and sin no more, she may lose a measure of respect for him, and you may find that difficult to break.

But you do have the right to ask her to treat you and your marriage with more respect than this.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 8:48 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

Asking your mother to ignore the calls isn't going to work: she probably enjoys getting involved like that,

Not necessarily. It's really troubling, maybe even panicking for an unsophisticated older person with limited resources, to get a call like that, because they insinuate you might be personally responsible for the debt if the person in question can't be found or can't pay.

The deadbeat ex-husband of one of my sisters seems to have had some financial troubles a few years ago (my only knowledge of this was my sister grumbling once at a family gathering about multiple missed child support payments) and a shady agency started calling my number asking for the ex-husband. The second time they called and I told them I knew nothing about him, his situation and had no connection to him, I also told them I would contact my lawyer if they called me again. I never got another call.

What I think is legitimate: for your mother to say, "You need to take the initiative, over and over if necessary, to stop debt collectors from calling me about your debt."

Agreed.
posted by aught at 8:51 AM on November 12, 2013 [3 favorites]

Do what you can to stop the debt-collection calls from happening.

Otherwise: lie. Lie through your teeth.

Both my husband and I have stereotypical overbearing mothers. We have both gotten grief about the others' career path, even when things, objectively, are totally and 100% fine. Our mothers seem to be motivated by a combination of factors: there's legitimate worry, sure, but also a tacit disapproval of various aspects of our lives, from the fact that we rent an apartment in an older house to the way that my husband wears his hair. And there are certainly gendered aspects of this: we both work from home, but my husband receives 100% of the pressure from both of our mothers to get out and get a "real" job.

While I recognize that our mothers--and yours--reach out largely from a place of good will and concern, I also recognize that there is a fundamental difference in values between the generations occurring here. You will likely never be able to convince your mother that your lifestyle is a happy one, and the more you discuss it with her, the more she'll feel like it's a topic appropriate for discussion. So when she asks, present a brief, rose-tinted portrait of your life, one which only acknowledges and accentuates the positive (instead of the natural ups and downs that come with your husband's various projects). And then change the subject: "We're fine, Mom. Charlie just got a new client. I've installed new drapes! When would you like to come visit to see them?"

In my experience, any kvetching, acknowledgment of failure or difficulty, seeking of support or approval just lead to more worry, stress, and, frankly, nagging. Don't give her any fodder, even if it means stretching the truth a little bit. It feels weird as hell at first, but you will be so, so much happier.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:35 AM on November 12, 2013 [4 favorites]

I'd probably go blunt and call her out on it, getting a little heated if necessary. "This is gendered bullshit. You wouldn't have a problem with it if the man worked and the woman stayed home and had a side project. In fact, we have many family friends/family members in that situation and you don't say a word. So shut the fuck up about it - it's none of your business. We make plenty of money; we're paying down our debt; we've never asked you for a loan. It's 2013, mom, get with the times. Women can be the primary income generators for the family."

And then maybe ignore her calls and email for like 2-4 weeks so she gets the point that you are serious; and when you get back in touch make it clear that you will not tolerate another mention of that again.
posted by amaire at 10:04 AM on November 12, 2013 [3 favorites]

Why is she fielding collection calls for her son-in-law's debt? With all sympathy, that really nullifies anything you say. It doesn't matter if you are happy. Your choices are impacting her in a negative way. Fix the debt collection problem, then try to convince her how everything is fine. Good luck!
posted by 99percentfake at 11:14 AM on November 12, 2013 [6 favorites]