How to get past four years of misguided limerance?
November 12, 2013 2:25 AM Subscribe
Around a month ago, I (female, straight, Asian, 21) broke off an engagement (with P, 32) because I had reason to believe a former tutor of mine (B, 26) was interested in me. I've since spoken with the latter and he ignored my emailed request to reconnect. What's more, I discovered that he (B, 26) is sleeping with a variety of 18-yo "sugar babies" on my college campus. (This explains why I see him often; he's not there to see me but to see attractive freshmen he pays for sex.) I feel betrayed because I really loved B and thought he was the perfect guy for me; I'm appalled that he's resorted to such a low that he targets freshmen girls. I wonder if he was only pretending to be interested in me when we met, since I was an 18-year old freshman then and am now older. I've been feeling blue about the entire situation and I'd appreciate any advice on navigating the post-limerance stage.
I'm an INFJ, prone to escapist daydreaming and trying to develop a sense of self independent from endless crushing. Because I'm so selective about the crushes I do have and like to think that I know what a good guy looks like, I'm appalled that I not only fell for a sociopath but also had him on a pedestal he didn't deserve for years. I basically shunned opportunities with guys who did express interest in me because I was holding a candle for this B.
I know some MeFites have suggested charismatic men usually are concealing major character flaws and that men need to "sow their wild oats," but it's just really hard for me to react rationally here. I feel betrayed and, frankly, B was never even mine. I feel unattractive, old, and over the hill. Why does it feel like I wasted the best years of my life pining for a cad in my dorm room when I could've been having fun with people my own age?
This situation is influencing my ability to have fun casually dating nice guys. E.g., I went on a date the other day and spent all of dinner plus three hours afterward crying over B...and, ahem, didn't receive another date offer.
TL;DR? Please help me get over B, ideally sooner rather than later. I want to meet someone nice and to enjoy my last year of college.
I'm an INFJ, prone to escapist daydreaming and trying to develop a sense of self independent from endless crushing. Because I'm so selective about the crushes I do have and like to think that I know what a good guy looks like, I'm appalled that I not only fell for a sociopath but also had him on a pedestal he didn't deserve for years. I basically shunned opportunities with guys who did express interest in me because I was holding a candle for this B.
I know some MeFites have suggested charismatic men usually are concealing major character flaws and that men need to "sow their wild oats," but it's just really hard for me to react rationally here. I feel betrayed and, frankly, B was never even mine. I feel unattractive, old, and over the hill. Why does it feel like I wasted the best years of my life pining for a cad in my dorm room when I could've been having fun with people my own age?
This situation is influencing my ability to have fun casually dating nice guys. E.g., I went on a date the other day and spent all of dinner plus three hours afterward crying over B...and, ahem, didn't receive another date offer.
TL;DR? Please help me get over B, ideally sooner rather than later. I want to meet someone nice and to enjoy my last year of college.
First of all, it sounds like you broke off your engagement because you didn't really want to be engaged. Your fiance was more than 10 years older than you anyway, so I think that's for the best, and also you aren't expressing much regret over that breakup, so all's well that ends well there.
Your ex-tutor seemed like he was into you so you chased that will-o-the-wisp and found that he was *paying* students for sex? Yuuuuuuuuuch!!!!!!! I have to tell you that that kind of sleaziness falls out towards the extremes. I don't think anyone in your place could have seen that one coming. Having said that, many bad guys are not this extreme, so in a way it's a gift. If I were you I would carefully study all the interactions you had with him and think about what was off about them. You can learn a lesson at 21 that many people learn much later, or never.
Also if I were you - okay, bear with me - I would read *The Rules* because, although there is a lot to be said against this text, it is very firm about what *specifically* to do to avoid getting emotionally invested in men who are not reciprocating. I also strongly suggest *Why Men Love
Bitches*. These books are full of sexism and gender essentialism, but one reason why they get as much criticism as they do is because they reveal important truths about the pitfalls of women pursuing and catering to men. So take what you need and leave the rest.
"Unattractive, old, and over the hill" - hahahahaha. Child, I'm just going to forget you said that.
There is something especially painful about the way guys like this treat you, so you should expect to feel especially bad about this for a long time. There's not a lot you can do about this except keep doing what you need to do to succeed at your studies and have fun. It doesn't sound like you're really up for dating right now, so perhaps you should leave off dating for a little while and take up a creative project. You may have to force yourself through it but you'll be glad you did. You don't desperately need to meet anyone during your busy last year of college anyway, and you were engaged, which is proof of concept that you can get guys, and men will still exist after your dating hiatus.
posted by tel3path at 3:03 AM on November 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
Your ex-tutor seemed like he was into you so you chased that will-o-the-wisp and found that he was *paying* students for sex? Yuuuuuuuuuch!!!!!!! I have to tell you that that kind of sleaziness falls out towards the extremes. I don't think anyone in your place could have seen that one coming. Having said that, many bad guys are not this extreme, so in a way it's a gift. If I were you I would carefully study all the interactions you had with him and think about what was off about them. You can learn a lesson at 21 that many people learn much later, or never.
Also if I were you - okay, bear with me - I would read *The Rules* because, although there is a lot to be said against this text, it is very firm about what *specifically* to do to avoid getting emotionally invested in men who are not reciprocating. I also strongly suggest *Why Men Love
Bitches*. These books are full of sexism and gender essentialism, but one reason why they get as much criticism as they do is because they reveal important truths about the pitfalls of women pursuing and catering to men. So take what you need and leave the rest.
"Unattractive, old, and over the hill" - hahahahaha. Child, I'm just going to forget you said that.
There is something especially painful about the way guys like this treat you, so you should expect to feel especially bad about this for a long time. There's not a lot you can do about this except keep doing what you need to do to succeed at your studies and have fun. It doesn't sound like you're really up for dating right now, so perhaps you should leave off dating for a little while and take up a creative project. You may have to force yourself through it but you'll be glad you did. You don't desperately need to meet anyone during your busy last year of college anyway, and you were engaged, which is proof of concept that you can get guys, and men will still exist after your dating hiatus.
posted by tel3path at 3:03 AM on November 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
Consider speaking with a counselor at your colleges counseling center. They exist to help students navigate stuff like this. Trust me...I interned at my college counseling center in grad school and saw many people who just need help getting over stuff like this. It's not just for mentally ill...it's to navigate life changes. Continue seeing a counselor until you get this sored and get focused back on your identity as your own person (and not through the eyes of another).
While you are doing that, head on over to Amazon and buy one or ten of these books by Cheri Huber. I specifically recommend "Be the Person You Want to Find" (do NOT think you know what it's talking about just from the title!) and "What You Practice is What You Have".
Read the books, do the exercises, take a walk and ponder it all, and then re read the books and redo the exercises.
posted by MultiFaceted at 3:03 AM on November 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
While you are doing that, head on over to Amazon and buy one or ten of these books by Cheri Huber. I specifically recommend "Be the Person You Want to Find" (do NOT think you know what it's talking about just from the title!) and "What You Practice is What You Have".
Read the books, do the exercises, take a walk and ponder it all, and then re read the books and redo the exercises.
posted by MultiFaceted at 3:03 AM on November 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
I remember your previous question, and I think the problem is that you invented a person you thought B was, rather than getting to know him in reality. You haven't really been betrayed by this person; you've been betrayed by a false image you created in your head.
What I would take from this experience is this: Try to get to know someone, for real, face to face, before you decide they are the person you want to be with.
posted by something something at 3:15 AM on November 12, 2013 [46 favorites]
What I would take from this experience is this: Try to get to know someone, for real, face to face, before you decide they are the person you want to be with.
posted by something something at 3:15 AM on November 12, 2013 [46 favorites]
I want to meet someone nice and to enjoy my last year of college.
Can I suggest concentrating on the latter instead of the former? Rushing from one crappy relationship to another is a sure recipe for a bad time. Just enjoy meeting people and hanging out with friends and stop trying so hard to find a husband/boyfriend.
posted by empath at 3:40 AM on November 12, 2013 [23 favorites]
Can I suggest concentrating on the latter instead of the former? Rushing from one crappy relationship to another is a sure recipe for a bad time. Just enjoy meeting people and hanging out with friends and stop trying so hard to find a husband/boyfriend.
posted by empath at 3:40 AM on November 12, 2013 [23 favorites]
Best answer: Giving up on meeting someone during college and just enjoying what I had improved my social life and my mental health immeasurably, so I second empath here.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:55 AM on November 12, 2013
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:55 AM on November 12, 2013
Hey, I remember your previous question too. Well done for making a decision on the situation with P, and for (even though it turned out so disappointingly) contacting B and finding out more about him as a person. That sounded like a tough position to be in.
My advice is going to be similar to others' here: in your shoes, I would take a deliberate break from looking for a relationship. I would focus on studying, on spending time with friends who are just friends, and maybe join a club for some activity or start a creative project (as tel3path said).
As a matter of fact, I did just that in the last year of my BA, after a couple of ill-matched relationships in the years before. I enjoyed that year much, much more than the years before, and one of the friends I got to know is now my life partner. (Not promising that this will happen to you - just wanted to point out that a calculated search for love is by no means the only way to find it.)
Everyone is going to tell you that you're young, and you are, but I also know what it feels like to feel, at your age, that you've missed all your opportunities for romance or fun, and that you may as well be old. I was isolated by my geekiness in high school, and by social anxiety for a lot of university, and I've felt those feelings strongly. The only way I've found to beat them is to ignore them, deliberately, long enough to go find some of those experiences I assumed I'd missed. Once you're having fun, they'll be the furthest thing from your mind.
Accept some invitations, sign up to make costumes for the theatre society, help plan a fundraiser - whatever suits your interests best. You sound like an energetic and focussed person, and I think turning that onto something new could do a lot for you. Sorry if this seems old hat, or easier said than done - it's just the best I've found for myself so far.
Oh, and seconding your university counselling service. This is definitely a situation they'll have encountered before and there's no shame in going to talk to them. Mine were super helpful.
Good luck!
posted by daisyk at 4:00 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
My advice is going to be similar to others' here: in your shoes, I would take a deliberate break from looking for a relationship. I would focus on studying, on spending time with friends who are just friends, and maybe join a club for some activity or start a creative project (as tel3path said).
As a matter of fact, I did just that in the last year of my BA, after a couple of ill-matched relationships in the years before. I enjoyed that year much, much more than the years before, and one of the friends I got to know is now my life partner. (Not promising that this will happen to you - just wanted to point out that a calculated search for love is by no means the only way to find it.)
Everyone is going to tell you that you're young, and you are, but I also know what it feels like to feel, at your age, that you've missed all your opportunities for romance or fun, and that you may as well be old. I was isolated by my geekiness in high school, and by social anxiety for a lot of university, and I've felt those feelings strongly. The only way I've found to beat them is to ignore them, deliberately, long enough to go find some of those experiences I assumed I'd missed. Once you're having fun, they'll be the furthest thing from your mind.
Accept some invitations, sign up to make costumes for the theatre society, help plan a fundraiser - whatever suits your interests best. You sound like an energetic and focussed person, and I think turning that onto something new could do a lot for you. Sorry if this seems old hat, or easier said than done - it's just the best I've found for myself so far.
Oh, and seconding your university counselling service. This is definitely a situation they'll have encountered before and there's no shame in going to talk to them. Mine were super helpful.
Good luck!
posted by daisyk at 4:00 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Don't feel bad about being fooled by B. If the bad guys were all really easy to spot, then none of us would ever get involved with any of them. Unfortunately, they mostly do not walk around wearing black cowboy hats and swirling their mustaches evilly. So try and take this as a learning experience, and try not to beat yourself up over this too much. We all make mistakes. We're all human.
Secondly, you haven't wasted the best years of your life. If you're 21, you've still got a lot of life in front of you. Everyone's life moves at its own pace.
Something I've been thinking about lately, and trying to make my peace with, is that my life looks the way it does because of the choices I have made. Which means I chose this life, even though it does not always look the way I imagined it would. If I had really wanted something else, I would have chosen differently. But I didn't. You chose too, and you chose the way you did for your own private reasons. And that is okay. You can use this experience and choose differently in the future. But be kind to past-you: she was just doing the best she could with what she had at the time.
So, moving forward: I would invest time in strengthening your female friendships, rather than looking for someone new to date right away. You sound like you could use a stronger in-person support network. Because it doesn't really help much, in my experience, to vent about your troubles to strangers. They can't help you much, because they don't have enough context. But good friends can. So work on your friendships.
posted by colfax at 4:28 AM on November 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
Secondly, you haven't wasted the best years of your life. If you're 21, you've still got a lot of life in front of you. Everyone's life moves at its own pace.
Something I've been thinking about lately, and trying to make my peace with, is that my life looks the way it does because of the choices I have made. Which means I chose this life, even though it does not always look the way I imagined it would. If I had really wanted something else, I would have chosen differently. But I didn't. You chose too, and you chose the way you did for your own private reasons. And that is okay. You can use this experience and choose differently in the future. But be kind to past-you: she was just doing the best she could with what she had at the time.
So, moving forward: I would invest time in strengthening your female friendships, rather than looking for someone new to date right away. You sound like you could use a stronger in-person support network. Because it doesn't really help much, in my experience, to vent about your troubles to strangers. They can't help you much, because they don't have enough context. But good friends can. So work on your friendships.
posted by colfax at 4:28 AM on November 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I'll chime in with tel3path that you should read the books she suggested. Think of them as overcorrecting for investing too much emotional energy in B. and in the concept of being part of a couple. Unfortunately, if you're obsessed with getting a husband, a lot of men are going to see you as desperate. They may take advantage of that. Or, they may run. You are not likely to find a healthy partner who is complete in himself if you are not complete in yourself.
You mentioned in your prior post that you were an abstinent virgin. Is this part of being on a spiritual or religious path? If you are spiritual/religious, being single is a great time to focus on that.
It's OK to take a purposeful break from dating. You're not running out of time. I am more than twice your age and my last relationship ended about six months ago. I'm investing in friendships, work, and being kind to myself. I still, at my advanced decrepitude (j/k) get attention from guys, but I need time to heal and so do you. (Not that I'm suggesting you take 20 years, but one year devoted to lotusmish would probably benefit you).
If you're looking to men to validate your worth and attractiveness, you don't have to! You deserve to pamper yourself and be beautiful just for you, and cultivate a radiant confidence as a whole person. I've been where you are before, and the only way to do that is to sit with solitude, no matter how scary it is and no matter how many thoughts of low self-esteem arise. You can just notice these thoughts and let them pass. Allow yourself to cry. Write all your feelings in a journal, or make art if it's hard to find the words.
Also, surround yourself with friends. Do you have any women friends who you would consider sisters? People who love you and don't judge? That's what you need right now more than a boyfriend. I'm concerned for you, that if you jump into another relationship, you will want the kind of validation that no mere mortal can give another, and thus get hurt again. Also, you might be vulnerable to a narcissist or abuser. It sounds like B. was like that, trolling editing sites for the youngest women he could legally sleep with. When you're more confident on your own, you'll grow into better discernment of the bad guys.
posted by xenophile at 4:40 AM on November 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
You mentioned in your prior post that you were an abstinent virgin. Is this part of being on a spiritual or religious path? If you are spiritual/religious, being single is a great time to focus on that.
It's OK to take a purposeful break from dating. You're not running out of time. I am more than twice your age and my last relationship ended about six months ago. I'm investing in friendships, work, and being kind to myself. I still, at my advanced decrepitude (j/k) get attention from guys, but I need time to heal and so do you. (Not that I'm suggesting you take 20 years, but one year devoted to lotusmish would probably benefit you).
If you're looking to men to validate your worth and attractiveness, you don't have to! You deserve to pamper yourself and be beautiful just for you, and cultivate a radiant confidence as a whole person. I've been where you are before, and the only way to do that is to sit with solitude, no matter how scary it is and no matter how many thoughts of low self-esteem arise. You can just notice these thoughts and let them pass. Allow yourself to cry. Write all your feelings in a journal, or make art if it's hard to find the words.
Also, surround yourself with friends. Do you have any women friends who you would consider sisters? People who love you and don't judge? That's what you need right now more than a boyfriend. I'm concerned for you, that if you jump into another relationship, you will want the kind of validation that no mere mortal can give another, and thus get hurt again. Also, you might be vulnerable to a narcissist or abuser. It sounds like B. was like that, trolling editing sites for the youngest women he could legally sleep with. When you're more confident on your own, you'll grow into better discernment of the bad guys.
posted by xenophile at 4:40 AM on November 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
I see similar things happen with some of my asian and latin friends depending on their nationality. Personally I think it stems from having family members hound you for marriage. It seems that once a girl graduates high school the family members of all my asian female friends start hounding them to get married. If they weren't married by age 25 they were old maids. I even had to break up my friendship with two of them because they became so worried and obsessed about not being married, it was all they ever talked about. It is very difficult to be around someone who reeks of desperation. One of these friends had her father constantly telling her she was "over the hill" and that she'll never get married because she was now old and losing her looks. She was 25. I'm guessing your family comes from a similar background?
But those that were engated in their early 20's would go through weird stages where they would seemingly sabotage their engagements either by cheating or just acting very unpredictably. I think it was because even though their families had convinced them they should want to be married deep down they really didn't. Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between what society or family wants for us from what WE really want for ourselves.
Personally, I think you need to take a little break from dating to be with yourself for a while and figure out what it is you really want. You are so young. You have PLENTY of time to find someone, but you never will find Mr Right if you don't take the time to focus on You.
posted by manderin at 4:54 AM on November 12, 2013 [12 favorites]
But those that were engated in their early 20's would go through weird stages where they would seemingly sabotage their engagements either by cheating or just acting very unpredictably. I think it was because even though their families had convinced them they should want to be married deep down they really didn't. Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between what society or family wants for us from what WE really want for ourselves.
Personally, I think you need to take a little break from dating to be with yourself for a while and figure out what it is you really want. You are so young. You have PLENTY of time to find someone, but you never will find Mr Right if you don't take the time to focus on You.
posted by manderin at 4:54 AM on November 12, 2013 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Six months off from dating or flirting of any major level--find out who you are, independent of romance.
posted by Ironmouth at 4:57 AM on November 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 4:57 AM on November 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
I remember your previous question, too. First off: I'm proud of you for breaking off the engagement. It sounded like you were desperately unhappy with that guy, and it takes a ton of courage to end something like that.
Getting over a crush is painful. It may seem like a silly reason, but it's real pain. The longer you hold onto that crush, the more you idealize the guy, the harsher the difference between your fantasy and the reality, the more it hurts. Don't beat yourself up for not getting over it immediately. At the same time, recognize that it is crucial to your mental health for you to get over this guy.
Minimize your chances of running into him, for starters. You might not be able to avoid him completely, but if you know he always hangs out in a certain coffee shop, stop going there for a few months.
Stop dating anyone for a while. I know you think time's running out. But I guarantee you, you will look pretty much the same in four years, find dates just as you do now, and be wiser and better able to pick out the rotten apples. Anyone who would date you at 21 but not date you at 25 wasn't planning on sticking around anyway. You have all the time in the world. If you start dating while you're still getting over an unrequited, over-idealized crush, you have a high chance of just transferring it to a new person, never healing.
Instead, focus on yourself. I emphatically do not mean this in the sense of "make yourself the most attractive person you can," because that'll just hurt you. Put aside your concept of yourself as a potential girlfriend/wife, stop trying to evaluate yourself in a mirror or through the eyes of others. Instead, focus on your perspective from the inside out. Seek activities, friendships, and challenges that engage the part of you that doesn't need approval from others. Try some sort of exercise that makes you feel strong/peaceful/accomplished, and don't worry about what it does for your figure. Dive into a book, hobby, or area of study that you find so fascinating that you forget who and where you are. It may help you to create a mental image of the self you aim to satisfy: the child you, the desert island you, the little inner version of you that sits at the control panel and pilots the body.
Finally: from your posting history, you seem to prioritize looks and money/status in relationships. If you focus on these things, you're going to keep running into some unhealthy ideas, because neither appearance nor money tells you much about what someone is like on the inside. They may attract people, but won't predict how well you get along with them, and people who are focused on simply attracting others rather than building and maintaining relationships are often good at the former but lousy at the latter. You've seen this firsthand with B: he wants to sleep with attractive teenagers, and those attractive teenagers are (at least partly) swayed by the gifts. It can help to develop more platonic friendships with people of either gender: you're not concerned with attraction, so you can focus on what they're like and how you get along.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:01 AM on November 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
Getting over a crush is painful. It may seem like a silly reason, but it's real pain. The longer you hold onto that crush, the more you idealize the guy, the harsher the difference between your fantasy and the reality, the more it hurts. Don't beat yourself up for not getting over it immediately. At the same time, recognize that it is crucial to your mental health for you to get over this guy.
Minimize your chances of running into him, for starters. You might not be able to avoid him completely, but if you know he always hangs out in a certain coffee shop, stop going there for a few months.
Stop dating anyone for a while. I know you think time's running out. But I guarantee you, you will look pretty much the same in four years, find dates just as you do now, and be wiser and better able to pick out the rotten apples. Anyone who would date you at 21 but not date you at 25 wasn't planning on sticking around anyway. You have all the time in the world. If you start dating while you're still getting over an unrequited, over-idealized crush, you have a high chance of just transferring it to a new person, never healing.
Instead, focus on yourself. I emphatically do not mean this in the sense of "make yourself the most attractive person you can," because that'll just hurt you. Put aside your concept of yourself as a potential girlfriend/wife, stop trying to evaluate yourself in a mirror or through the eyes of others. Instead, focus on your perspective from the inside out. Seek activities, friendships, and challenges that engage the part of you that doesn't need approval from others. Try some sort of exercise that makes you feel strong/peaceful/accomplished, and don't worry about what it does for your figure. Dive into a book, hobby, or area of study that you find so fascinating that you forget who and where you are. It may help you to create a mental image of the self you aim to satisfy: the child you, the desert island you, the little inner version of you that sits at the control panel and pilots the body.
Finally: from your posting history, you seem to prioritize looks and money/status in relationships. If you focus on these things, you're going to keep running into some unhealthy ideas, because neither appearance nor money tells you much about what someone is like on the inside. They may attract people, but won't predict how well you get along with them, and people who are focused on simply attracting others rather than building and maintaining relationships are often good at the former but lousy at the latter. You've seen this firsthand with B: he wants to sleep with attractive teenagers, and those attractive teenagers are (at least partly) swayed by the gifts. It can help to develop more platonic friendships with people of either gender: you're not concerned with attraction, so you can focus on what they're like and how you get along.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:01 AM on November 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
Aside from taking some time off, you're also going to need some time monitoring your self-talk about B. You keep saying, even now, that you loved him. But you didn't love him. You barely knew him. You were in love with an idea, and it's still totally valid to be feeling hurt, but you need to start correcting yourself when you think, "But I loved him so much!" You can't stop that thought from happening. You can counter it with: "Or, well, I thought I did, and it hurts so much to have that taken away." Or, "No, I guess I didn't really love him, but it felt so much like it and I miss that feeling." Don't let the thoughts pass without examining them, because the distinction matters; don't deny that it hurts, but don't keep giving more reality to this idea that you were in love with the actual B.
The reason it matters is that because the B you had feelings for was mostly in your head, that person is never, ever going to die or go away until you stop thinking about him that way. Being in love with a real person changes when the person is gone; being in love with a fiction is much harder and requires more active work to get over. Now that you've done it once, hopefully you can be on the lookout for it happening again, paying better attention to your feelings and what they're based on, but honestly, it happens to lots of people, especially young women, and you will totally be fine once you give it some time.
posted by Sequence at 5:12 AM on November 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
The reason it matters is that because the B you had feelings for was mostly in your head, that person is never, ever going to die or go away until you stop thinking about him that way. Being in love with a real person changes when the person is gone; being in love with a fiction is much harder and requires more active work to get over. Now that you've done it once, hopefully you can be on the lookout for it happening again, paying better attention to your feelings and what they're based on, but honestly, it happens to lots of people, especially young women, and you will totally be fine once you give it some time.
posted by Sequence at 5:12 AM on November 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: One of the things that really comes through in your questions is that you spend a lot of time inside your own head, coming up with scenarios and solutions and perceptions of how the world works that aren't actually true. If you really want to make your last year of college worthwhile and one of your prime years, spend it hanging out with your peers, talking about academics, career, relationships, philosophy, politics, social lives, etc. Give these times the chance to hear what is going on in the lives of others and how things are working for them. Give your friends a chance to tell you things like, "Listen to yourself! That sounds crazy!"
This is your big chance to engage in a lot of personal growth.
posted by deanc at 5:22 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is your big chance to engage in a lot of personal growth.
posted by deanc at 5:22 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
In matters like this I always recommend that folks be more Spock and less Kirk.
Look at the facts, look at the evidence, approach it with a 'tricorder' and see what these men are actually DOING, as opposed to what you think they are doing or what you want them to do, or what you're fantasizing them doing.
More Spock, less Kirk.
posted by John Kennedy Toole Box at 5:43 AM on November 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Look at the facts, look at the evidence, approach it with a 'tricorder' and see what these men are actually DOING, as opposed to what you think they are doing or what you want them to do, or what you're fantasizing them doing.
More Spock, less Kirk.
posted by John Kennedy Toole Box at 5:43 AM on November 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I too will recommend The Rules. Most people think it's "how to play games so men will like you." And there's a little of that in there. But mostly, it's about "how to value yourself and your time and how to spot someone who is a time waster."
Another book, with a cringe-worthy title, is How to Marry the Man of your Choice. This one explores how to determine if a man is worthy of marriage. It's not about catering to him, or any of that crap, it's a great tool for learning how to really talk to a man (people actually) and to evaluate what it is that you want for yourself.
As for your age, at 21 you are still a child. Don't rush into a life-long relationship until you have:
1. Traveled to a distant country on your own
2. Stayed up all night talking with the most interesting person in the world.
3. Laughed non-stop with a group of friends for no good reason.
4. Lived alone, and liked it.
5. Helped a friend through a difficult time.
6. Made a list of things you want to accomplish in this life. If marriage and children are important, put them on the list. Also put on languages you want to learn, things you want to do, mountains you want to climb and ice cream flavors you want to taste. I highly recommend combining 1 with the ice cream flavor, and go to Japan to have Yam Ice Cream.
7. Really understand where you went wrong in previous relationships. Parse those things, take them apart, examine them under a microscope and then be sure not to repeat those mistakes.
8. Meet lots of people, realize that no one person is perfect and that it's okay to like parts of people. I have friends that I have lunch with and shop with, and it pretty much ends there. I have other friends who feel free to call me at 4am to sob on my shoulder.
9. Think seriously about money and your career. What kind of lifestyle do you want to live? If you're happy in a converted garage furnished with thrift store furniture, good on ya mate. If you really want to live in a deluxe apartment in the sky, then that's good too. Don't compromise to make someone else happy though. You get to choose how you want to live your life.
10. Be so sure about who YOU are as a person, so secure about your place in this world, that when you do meet the man you want to marry, that it's the most natural thing in the world.
I met Husbunny when I was 38 and we married when I was 39. I don't regreat a minute of the time I spent up until that time. I know 100% who I am and what I want. I really knew Husbunny before we married too. We are still happy 12 years later.
Good things come to those who wait.
Take some time, your last year of college is the perfect time to set the stage for the next part of your life. Interact with people but don't try to look for your Senior Year Boyfriend. Think about travel for next summer. Focus on interships and your first, post-grad job.
Boys can wait, you need to get your head on straight and your shit together.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:49 AM on November 12, 2013 [32 favorites]
Another book, with a cringe-worthy title, is How to Marry the Man of your Choice. This one explores how to determine if a man is worthy of marriage. It's not about catering to him, or any of that crap, it's a great tool for learning how to really talk to a man (people actually) and to evaluate what it is that you want for yourself.
As for your age, at 21 you are still a child. Don't rush into a life-long relationship until you have:
1. Traveled to a distant country on your own
2. Stayed up all night talking with the most interesting person in the world.
3. Laughed non-stop with a group of friends for no good reason.
4. Lived alone, and liked it.
5. Helped a friend through a difficult time.
6. Made a list of things you want to accomplish in this life. If marriage and children are important, put them on the list. Also put on languages you want to learn, things you want to do, mountains you want to climb and ice cream flavors you want to taste. I highly recommend combining 1 with the ice cream flavor, and go to Japan to have Yam Ice Cream.
7. Really understand where you went wrong in previous relationships. Parse those things, take them apart, examine them under a microscope and then be sure not to repeat those mistakes.
8. Meet lots of people, realize that no one person is perfect and that it's okay to like parts of people. I have friends that I have lunch with and shop with, and it pretty much ends there. I have other friends who feel free to call me at 4am to sob on my shoulder.
9. Think seriously about money and your career. What kind of lifestyle do you want to live? If you're happy in a converted garage furnished with thrift store furniture, good on ya mate. If you really want to live in a deluxe apartment in the sky, then that's good too. Don't compromise to make someone else happy though. You get to choose how you want to live your life.
10. Be so sure about who YOU are as a person, so secure about your place in this world, that when you do meet the man you want to marry, that it's the most natural thing in the world.
I met Husbunny when I was 38 and we married when I was 39. I don't regreat a minute of the time I spent up until that time. I know 100% who I am and what I want. I really knew Husbunny before we married too. We are still happy 12 years later.
Good things come to those who wait.
Take some time, your last year of college is the perfect time to set the stage for the next part of your life. Interact with people but don't try to look for your Senior Year Boyfriend. Think about travel for next summer. Focus on interships and your first, post-grad job.
Boys can wait, you need to get your head on straight and your shit together.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:49 AM on November 12, 2013 [32 favorites]
Boys can wait, you need to get your head on straight and your shit together.
Ruthless Bunny took a lot of words before giving you the straight dope. If you're anything like most people, at 21 you will have decades of bad romantic choices ahead of you before you'll stumble onto the right one. Remember: They're all the wrong ones, until you meet the right one. Don't be in any rush.
posted by three blind mice at 7:02 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ruthless Bunny took a lot of words before giving you the straight dope. If you're anything like most people, at 21 you will have decades of bad romantic choices ahead of you before you'll stumble onto the right one. Remember: They're all the wrong ones, until you meet the right one. Don't be in any rush.
posted by three blind mice at 7:02 AM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Lot of good advice above. If I was you I would print your question out and read it again in 20 years. It will blow your mind.
posted by jcworth at 7:21 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by jcworth at 7:21 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Take Ironmouth's advice.
posted by flabdablet at 8:20 AM on November 12, 2013
posted by flabdablet at 8:20 AM on November 12, 2013
Why does it feel like I wasted the best years of my life pining for a cad in my dorm room when I could've been having fun with people my own age?
Because you did. Whoops! Forgive yourself and then don't do it again. You are allowed to make (almost) any mistake once.
threeblindmice already stated the rest of my advice: you will seriously make a bunch of mistakes, in love and everything else, and it will almost always be okay. These experiences will be part of what makes you the adult you're becoming. It will make you a better partner, a better friend, and probably even a better doctor. I've been thinking and wondering about you since your last question, and I'm so glad that you are moving forward. I know you're hurting, but frankly, that's how it's supposed to feel. If it's not to weird to say so: I'm proud of you, lotusmish. You're growing. Keep doing it. You're doing a good job and asking the right questions.
posted by juliplease at 9:37 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Because you did. Whoops! Forgive yourself and then don't do it again. You are allowed to make (almost) any mistake once.
threeblindmice already stated the rest of my advice: you will seriously make a bunch of mistakes, in love and everything else, and it will almost always be okay. These experiences will be part of what makes you the adult you're becoming. It will make you a better partner, a better friend, and probably even a better doctor. I've been thinking and wondering about you since your last question, and I'm so glad that you are moving forward. I know you're hurting, but frankly, that's how it's supposed to feel. If it's not to weird to say so: I'm proud of you, lotusmish. You're growing. Keep doing it. You're doing a good job and asking the right questions.
posted by juliplease at 9:37 AM on November 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
(Also, those were not the best years of your life. They were just some of the years. Really. There will be so much more.)
posted by juliplease at 9:39 AM on November 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by juliplease at 9:39 AM on November 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think it would do you some good to stay single and meet some girlfriends from both your culture and more americanized groups. That way you can both commiserate with those from your culture about the insane marriage pressure but also be exposed to the more American standard of educated women marrying older than your culture. I remember when the first of my friends got married at 23 and the general consensus was "that's cool, but why are you doing that now?"
posted by WeekendJen at 9:40 AM on November 12, 2013
posted by WeekendJen at 9:40 AM on November 12, 2013
Just to clarify, I've always followed advice in self-help books such as The Rules and Why Men Marry Bitches. Others in the previous thread recommended I say something to see if there was anything to explore with B; I took a huge risk and put myself out there and, ahem, was turned down. B actually did approach me first, but he appeared to want to play games. After I showed interest and went out of my way to help him, he let me down and started giving me the cold shoulder. I then found out through a mutual friend that he (1) date raped a large number of freshmen girls when he was a college student, (2) is currently sleeping with 18-year old prostitutes, and (3) is extremely superficial.
I've always been a values-oriented, pragmatic person; I know that personality is far more important than looks. B may be attractive, but he's an awful person. How could he pay a girl for sex? I just can't forgive that. I can understand womanizers spreading their seed with multiple girls in a polyamorous situation, but I can't understand commodifying something that is meant for the bonds of true love and marriage. I've really just lost all respect for him, now that I know his (amoral) values don't mesh with my own values.
In any event, thanks. I agree that strengthening my local female friendships will be crucial to my happiness. P has been a great ally in this process, and I'm lucky to still have him as a friend after pursuing such a stupid "grass is greener" daydream.
posted by lotusmish at 12:30 PM on November 12, 2013
I've always been a values-oriented, pragmatic person; I know that personality is far more important than looks. B may be attractive, but he's an awful person. How could he pay a girl for sex? I just can't forgive that. I can understand womanizers spreading their seed with multiple girls in a polyamorous situation, but I can't understand commodifying something that is meant for the bonds of true love and marriage. I've really just lost all respect for him, now that I know his (amoral) values don't mesh with my own values.
In any event, thanks. I agree that strengthening my local female friendships will be crucial to my happiness. P has been a great ally in this process, and I'm lucky to still have him as a friend after pursuing such a stupid "grass is greener" daydream.
posted by lotusmish at 12:30 PM on November 12, 2013
You don't need to jump into dating yet when you are still crushing for B. That's all it was too. You never really knew him in person much at all. It's great you broke things off with the other guy as your heart wasn't in it. I do think it would be good to talk to a counselor about the marriage pressures you are feeling. I know this is mostly cultural for you but maybe try to adopt more of an American attitude about dating since I think you're living here now. Women here typically try to develop a sense of who they are as their own person before getting married. It really is much healthier and quite empowering. When the time is right you will meet the right guy. You don't have to try quite this hard to make it happen. Besides you can't force something like love. It happens when it will not when we will it. You're going to be okay. Just be single this year and get out and have fun with your friends.
posted by wildflower at 12:37 PM on November 12, 2013
posted by wildflower at 12:37 PM on November 12, 2013
Best answer: 21 is very young, and based on all your questions, you seem like a particularly young and inexperienced 21. Spend some time getting to know yourself, and date casually if you date at all. It seems like with both of these guys, a lot of the relationship was based mostly in your head, in an idealized version. There is no magic age to get married, or have a serious relationship. Most people want companionship and connection, but stop trying to force it, you have plenty of time!
Meet people, get to really know them, and let relationships grow naturally. Take things slow. That's the way to develop a real connection that will last and has a chance of making you happy. Not building up a fantasy relationship with someone you never really even spent time with, or by having somone find you a "perfect" match based on some sort of formula. (Love is not a formula, and the advice in books like the rules might work for some hypothetical generic couple, but in reality, people are individuals, and you need to interact with them romantically [and socially] based on who they are, not some set of stereotypical guidelines.)
Work on yourself, and becoming someone who will be the kind of partner you'd like to have yourself, and develop your own friends, interests, and independence, and you will be in a much better position to find the love and connection you want.
posted by catatethebird at 2:41 PM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Meet people, get to really know them, and let relationships grow naturally. Take things slow. That's the way to develop a real connection that will last and has a chance of making you happy. Not building up a fantasy relationship with someone you never really even spent time with, or by having somone find you a "perfect" match based on some sort of formula. (Love is not a formula, and the advice in books like the rules might work for some hypothetical generic couple, but in reality, people are individuals, and you need to interact with them romantically [and socially] based on who they are, not some set of stereotypical guidelines.)
Work on yourself, and becoming someone who will be the kind of partner you'd like to have yourself, and develop your own friends, interests, and independence, and you will be in a much better position to find the love and connection you want.
posted by catatethebird at 2:41 PM on November 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
As an aside, if you are an abstinent virgin at 21, I wonder how much of your rush for marriage and True Love stems from sexual frustration and curiosity? Maybe it's time to reexamine your ideas about sex and relationships.
posted by catatethebird at 2:56 PM on November 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by catatethebird at 2:56 PM on November 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: How could he pay a girl for sex? I just can't forgive that.
The date rape is more of a red flag for me. B is a rapist. You don't want to be friends with a rapist, never mind crush on them. You did a good thing in letting that go.
posted by mippy at 3:54 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
The date rape is more of a red flag for me. B is a rapist. You don't want to be friends with a rapist, never mind crush on them. You did a good thing in letting that go.
posted by mippy at 3:54 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Just to clarify, I've always followed advice in self-help books such as The Rules and Why Men Marry Bitches.
This is probably the cause of 90% of your relationship problems. You're kind of over-focusing on getting into a relationship, and it's probably stopping you from being a fully developed individual. Figure out what makes you happy, by yourself, and do that for a while. If you're happy, and living a full life by yourself, you'll attract a good man without even trying.
posted by empath at 4:01 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
This is probably the cause of 90% of your relationship problems. You're kind of over-focusing on getting into a relationship, and it's probably stopping you from being a fully developed individual. Figure out what makes you happy, by yourself, and do that for a while. If you're happy, and living a full life by yourself, you'll attract a good man without even trying.
posted by empath at 4:01 AM on November 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
Look, I think you used B to get out of your engagement with P.
The thing about a crush is that it's basically always more about you than about the object. You needed something so absorbing and so enticing that it would let you permit yourself to extricate yourself from what sounds like, at best, a very premature engagement, and at worse, just a really bad idea and exploitative of you in its own way.
I encourage you to see yourself as an actor and own your own agency in this series of events, and see how you are creating yourself and your future. B might have been an asshole, but that doesn't mean you didn't use him to play a useful role in your own life's drama.
Everything about your posts screams that you are not ready for a serious intimate relationship of equals, and the part of you that knew that did a great job protecting you from yourself. Good for you!
posted by Salamandrous at 2:37 PM on November 13, 2013
The thing about a crush is that it's basically always more about you than about the object. You needed something so absorbing and so enticing that it would let you permit yourself to extricate yourself from what sounds like, at best, a very premature engagement, and at worse, just a really bad idea and exploitative of you in its own way.
I encourage you to see yourself as an actor and own your own agency in this series of events, and see how you are creating yourself and your future. B might have been an asshole, but that doesn't mean you didn't use him to play a useful role in your own life's drama.
Everything about your posts screams that you are not ready for a serious intimate relationship of equals, and the part of you that knew that did a great job protecting you from yourself. Good for you!
posted by Salamandrous at 2:37 PM on November 13, 2013
Best answer: I wonder if he was only pretending to be interested in me when we met, since I was an 18-year old freshman then and am now older.
Oh, I'm sure he wasn't pretending at all. He was interested in you in the same way he's interested in freshmen now.
Edited to add: Be assured that once you are out of college, you'll be considered young again. Sort of like how high school seniors are "old", but only in comparison to the rest of the group.
posted by yohko at 1:34 PM on November 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh, I'm sure he wasn't pretending at all. He was interested in you in the same way he's interested in freshmen now.
Edited to add: Be assured that once you are out of college, you'll be considered young again. Sort of like how high school seniors are "old", but only in comparison to the rest of the group.
posted by yohko at 1:34 PM on November 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Why were you even with P in the first place? Presumably, as you were barely 18 when you first cast eyes on B, you weren't already engaged?
If I were you, I'd examine my own issues: an attraction toward older partners, a feeling of being "old, and over the hill" at 21. Getting engaged to an older man at the start of your 20s (or even before!) seems drastic, as it feels obvious from reading your post that you did so for reasons other than unbridled love—not even limerence, as you say. What motivated you to do that?
You talk of these three years as if they signify some sort of transition from child to adult, and 18-year old freshmen being "(sugar) babies". 18 is young. 21 is young, too; young adult at most.
If, as you say, P is soliciting 18-year olds for sex at 26, he's got his own issues to deal with.
You can enjoy your last year of college without finding a partner. It's difficult to be in a healthy relationship when you don't even have yourself figured out.
All the best.
posted by flippant at 2:53 AM on November 12, 2013 [18 favorites]