Wait a minute, that's not kosher.
November 4, 2013 5:51 AM Subscribe
I love Nathan's cheesesteak sandwiches. Friday I ended up being very disappointed after walking across campus to find they were closed.
Yes, I know it's a Jewish company, "We answer to a higher power", closed for Sabbath and so on. I just forgot it was Friday. Then I realized I shouldn't be able to get a cheessteak there anyway due the the meat and dairy law.
So, two questions:
1. Why can I get a cheesesteak at a Jewish restaurant?
2. How can I make these at home?
Yes, I know it's a Jewish company, "We answer to a higher power", closed for Sabbath and so on. I just forgot it was Friday. Then I realized I shouldn't be able to get a cheessteak there anyway due the the meat and dairy law.
So, two questions:
1. Why can I get a cheesesteak at a Jewish restaurant?
2. How can I make these at home?
According to kashrut, Biblically prohibited mixtures (in this case, dairy and meat) can be used for other benefit, such as being sold to non-kosher persons. I don't think Nathan's is a kosher restaurant (I mean, it definitely isn't 100% if cheesesteaks are on the menu), but they may sell kosher products or have two separate kitchens for kosher and non-kosher items that they cook and sell.
posted by mrfuga0 at 6:02 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by mrfuga0 at 6:02 AM on November 4, 2013
Wait, I'm totally wrong about that. I misread the law. Sorry! Meat and dairy mixtures CANNOT be used for other benefit.
posted by mrfuga0 at 6:05 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by mrfuga0 at 6:05 AM on November 4, 2013
I don't know that Nathan's is as Jewish-identified as, say, Hebrew National (which is the "we answer to a higher authority" company). They also put cheese on burgers, dogs, etc. Actual kosher restaurants don't serve dairy (and/or meat) at all. I think the one on Coney Island is open every day.
At any rate, it was after sundown, I guess? Sabbath is mostly on Saturday. In my experience, a lot of non-Orthodox Jews keep the Sabbath to one degree or another (i.e., no work per se, but may still use electricity) but don't keep kosher.
Cheesesteaks are pretty simple. Just pan-fried thin-sliced ribeye and diced onions. Put it in the pan (not nonstick) in whole slices, and then chop as it cooks. The more authentic thing to do is not to mince it into a hash, but to keep larger chunks, for what it's worth. Top with provelone or American while still in the pan.
posted by supercres at 6:05 AM on November 4, 2013
At any rate, it was after sundown, I guess? Sabbath is mostly on Saturday. In my experience, a lot of non-Orthodox Jews keep the Sabbath to one degree or another (i.e., no work per se, but may still use electricity) but don't keep kosher.
Cheesesteaks are pretty simple. Just pan-fried thin-sliced ribeye and diced onions. Put it in the pan (not nonstick) in whole slices, and then chop as it cooks. The more authentic thing to do is not to mince it into a hash, but to keep larger chunks, for what it's worth. Top with provelone or American while still in the pan.
posted by supercres at 6:05 AM on November 4, 2013
Well, if one wanted to make a kosher cheesesteak, you could use, say, Daiya cheese for the cheesesteak, as there would be no dairy (and they are certified Kosher). But the taste...yeah, I don't know about the taste.
posted by Fortran at 6:09 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by Fortran at 6:09 AM on November 4, 2013
"We answer to a higher authority" is Hebrew National, not Nathan's. Nathan's might serve Hebrew National, but is it possible they were closed for some other reason? Like that it was after their business hours?
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 6:12 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 6:12 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
How to make a cheesesteak, Philadelphian-approved™. Just… ketchup? No. I usually do fried onions and mushrooms, with provolone cheese.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:20 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by DoubleLune at 6:20 AM on November 4, 2013
As opposed to, say, ChikFilA, who closes all of their stores on Sundays, I am not aware of Nathan's being closed for the sabbath as a rule.
There's a Nathan's franchise inside a nearby movie theater and I'm pretty sure I've seen it open during Friday night and Saturday matinee movies.
They are also certainly not a kosher establishment. :)
I'm seconding the fact that maybe it was just that location which was closed at that time for some other reason.
Their website would probably mention such a thing if it were a chain-wide rule.
posted by jozxyqk at 6:21 AM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's a Nathan's franchise inside a nearby movie theater and I'm pretty sure I've seen it open during Friday night and Saturday matinee movies.
They are also certainly not a kosher establishment. :)
I'm seconding the fact that maybe it was just that location which was closed at that time for some other reason.
Their website would probably mention such a thing if it were a chain-wide rule.
posted by jozxyqk at 6:21 AM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
There is no way to make a kosher cheesesteak (from my basic understanding of kosher laws).
Making a cheesesteak is pretty easy. Your shopping list is:
A good local roll (Amoroso or Liscio, Sarcone is ok too)
Chip steak (thinly sliced steak)
Cheese (American / Provolone / Wiz / some fancy cheese sauce you want to investigate how to make)
Onions / Peppers (optional)
Ketchup (optional)
Oil (for the pan)
Salt + pepper (for seasoning)
But if you want to make a cheesesteak at home, it's fairly easy. The roll is one of the most important parts - if you're in the Philly area (anywhere in the 5 counties and likely anywhere in South Jersey) go to a local deli / supermarket that sells either Amoroso or Liscio rolls. I prefer Liscio, they're a bit crustier.
At the same deli, get some chip steak. Make sure it is sliced thin. Get cheese - my dad always used white american (not the yellow kraft stuff) growing up. You can use provolone or other cheese that you might like.
If you want onions and peppers, cut them and cook separately. Slice or dice, whatever you like.
Cook the steak in a bit of oil in a pan on your stovetop. As it is cooked, chop up the meat with your spatula (or a knife if you have a plastic spatula that's useless for chopping things, like I do). Season with salt and pepper if you want.
Slice your roll length-wise. Place meat, veggies (as desired), and cheese on roll. Put ketchup on sandwich if you want. Eat.
posted by kellygrape at 6:24 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Making a cheesesteak is pretty easy. Your shopping list is:
A good local roll (Amoroso or Liscio, Sarcone is ok too)
Chip steak (thinly sliced steak)
Cheese (American / Provolone / Wiz / some fancy cheese sauce you want to investigate how to make)
Onions / Peppers (optional)
Ketchup (optional)
Oil (for the pan)
Salt + pepper (for seasoning)
But if you want to make a cheesesteak at home, it's fairly easy. The roll is one of the most important parts - if you're in the Philly area (anywhere in the 5 counties and likely anywhere in South Jersey) go to a local deli / supermarket that sells either Amoroso or Liscio rolls. I prefer Liscio, they're a bit crustier.
At the same deli, get some chip steak. Make sure it is sliced thin. Get cheese - my dad always used white american (not the yellow kraft stuff) growing up. You can use provolone or other cheese that you might like.
If you want onions and peppers, cut them and cook separately. Slice or dice, whatever you like.
Cook the steak in a bit of oil in a pan on your stovetop. As it is cooked, chop up the meat with your spatula (or a knife if you have a plastic spatula that's useless for chopping things, like I do). Season with salt and pepper if you want.
Slice your roll length-wise. Place meat, veggies (as desired), and cheese on roll. Put ketchup on sandwich if you want. Eat.
posted by kellygrape at 6:24 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, the founder of Nathan's was a Jew, but I've never heard of it being a (religiously) Jewish establishment - and the "higher power" slogan is Hebrew National. Is it possible you're just, uh, mixing up your sausages?
(so to speak)
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:37 AM on November 4, 2013
(so to speak)
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:37 AM on November 4, 2013
Nathan's is not now, nor has it ever been, kosher. Owned by a Jewish family does not equal kosher.
posted by elizardbits at 6:57 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 6:57 AM on November 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
It looks like at least one of their New York locations is open daily. I suspect it's just your one location that's closed Fridays and Saturdays, which may or may not have anything to do with Shabbat.
posted by jaguar at 6:57 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by jaguar at 6:57 AM on November 4, 2013
Response by poster: So, yes I probably have "mixed up the sausages". This Nathan's is located on Valdosta State University's campus in Valdosta, GA. It is closed all day Friday and Saturday. I knew the place couldn't be 100% kosher but that there was something so obviously outside the dietary rules for something that I had always identified as a Jewish place had escaped my notice.
posted by Talia Devane at 7:01 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by Talia Devane at 7:01 AM on November 4, 2013
(Based on a previous question and on your current mention of "campus," I think I know which campus you're talking about, and your campus's "dine on campus" page shows that almost all the chain/franchise places are closed some combo of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Papa John's, for instance, is closed on Friday, and they're not exactly a Jewish restaurant.)
posted by jaguar at 7:01 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 7:01 AM on November 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I grew up on LI, and a local BBS I used to be a member of (wow, I'm dating myself) had in-person meetups almost every Friday night at the Nathan's in Westbury. In fact I recall that particular location being open 7 days a week.
Nathan's is not particularly Jewish or Kosher from what I remember, other than the company having been founded by Jewish immigrants. When I was a kid, I remember they used to sell fried shrimp, too. Shellfish is definitely not kosher.
It might just be that particular location that closes on Fridays.
posted by tckma at 7:33 AM on November 4, 2013
Nathan's is not particularly Jewish or Kosher from what I remember, other than the company having been founded by Jewish immigrants. When I was a kid, I remember they used to sell fried shrimp, too. Shellfish is definitely not kosher.
It might just be that particular location that closes on Fridays.
posted by tckma at 7:33 AM on November 4, 2013
If you want to make kosher cheesesteak, use fish for the steak part.
posted by oceanjesse at 7:34 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by oceanjesse at 7:34 AM on November 4, 2013
Also, the dairy/meat thing is taken so seriously in Israel that it's not unheard of for dining halls in some kibbutzim to have a room divided in two, with one side for dairy with a light colored tablecloth, another for meat with a darker tablecloth. And you can't get a cheeseburger worth a damn anywhere.
posted by oceanjesse at 7:39 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by oceanjesse at 7:39 AM on November 4, 2013
Nth-ing that this chain franchise's closure has nothing to do with Jewishness or the Sabbath.
posted by aught at 8:24 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by aught at 8:24 AM on November 4, 2013
Oceanjesse's comment reminds me of this: I went to Israel with my Hebrew school class in 1988. On our first night there we went to a pizzeria in Jerusalem. One of the guys in our group studied the menu for a while, then went up to the counter and asked, totally seriously, "Why don't you have sausage pizza?" You should have seen the look on the face of the person behind the counter! The rest of us, of course, just burst out laughing. Oh, the joys of jet lag!
posted by SisterHavana at 9:28 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by SisterHavana at 9:28 AM on November 4, 2013
I would recommend freezing or partially freezing your beef before you cut it. This makes it much easier to slice as thinly as you would want for a cheesesteak.
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:32 AM on November 4, 2013
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:32 AM on November 4, 2013
As someone who lived in Israel, grew up Reform but kept kosher for quite a while, there are many, many, MANY, ways to practice Judaism. Israel isn't completely kosher - you can get a cheeseburger, shrimp, and pork. Also, many restaurants are open on Shabbat.
Second, some people keep kosher while not keeping Shabbat and some people keep Shabbat without keeping kosher. It's not an all or nothing religion unless you're ultra-Orthodox, which is a whole other ball of cheese.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:50 PM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Second, some people keep kosher while not keeping Shabbat and some people keep Shabbat without keeping kosher. It's not an all or nothing religion unless you're ultra-Orthodox, which is a whole other ball of cheese.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:50 PM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: PHILLY CHEESESTEAKS
Serves 4. Published March 1, 2012. From Cook's Illustrated.
WHY THIS RECIPE WORKS:
Bringing cheesesteaks home required coming up with a simple and economical way to mimic the thinly shaved slivers of rib eye usually obtained with a meat slicer. We found that when partially frozen, skirt steak’s thin profile and open-grained texture made for easy slicing, and its flavor was nearest to rib eye but without the sticker shock. To best approximate the wide griddle typically used in Philadelphia, we cooked the meat in two batches, letting any excess moisture drain off before giving it a final sear. Finally, to bind it all together, we let slices of American cheese melt into the meat, along with a bit of grated Parmesan to boost its flavor.
If skirt steak is unavailable, substitute sirloin steak tips (also called flap meat). Top these sandwiches with chopped pickled hot peppers, sautéed onions or bell peppers, sweet relish, or hot sauce.
INGREDIENTS
•2 pounds skirt steak , trimmed and sliced with grain into 3-inch-wide strips
•4 (8-inch) Italian sub rolls , split lengthwise
•2 tablespoons vegetable oil
•1/2 teaspoon salt
•1/8 teaspoon pepper
•1/4 cup grated Parmesan cheese
•8 slices white American cheese (8 ounces)
INSTRUCTIONS
1. Place steak pieces on large plate or baking sheet and freeze until very firm, about 1 hour.
2. Meanwhile, adjust oven rack to middle position and heat oven to 400 degrees. Spread split rolls on baking sheet and toast until lightly browned, 5 to 10 minutes.
3. Using sharp knife, shave steak pieces as thinly as possible against grain. Mound meat on cutting board and chop coarsely with knife 10 to 20 times.
4. Heat 1 tablespoon oil in 12-inch nonstick skillet over high heat until smoking. Add half of meat in even layer and cook without stirring until well browned on 1 side, 4 to 5 minutes. Stir and continue to cook until meat is no longer pink, 1 to 2 minutes. Transfer meat to colander set in large bowl. Wipe out skillet with paper towel. Repeat with remaining 1 tablespoon oil and sliced meat.
5. Return now-empty skillet to medium heat. Drain excess moisture from meat. Return meat to skillet (discard any liquid in bowl) and add salt and pepper. Heat, stirring constantly, until meat is warmed through, 1 to 2 minutes. Reduce heat to low, sprinkle with Parmesan, and shingle slices of American cheese over meat. Allow cheeses to melt, about 2 minutes. Using heatproof spatula or wooden spoon, fold melted cheese into meat thoroughly. Divide mixture evenly among toasted rolls. Serve immediately.
posted by JABof72 at 2:20 AM on November 5, 2013
Serves 4. Published March 1, 2012. From Cook's Illustrated.
WHY THIS RECIPE WORKS:
Bringing cheesesteaks home required coming up with a simple and economical way to mimic the thinly shaved slivers of rib eye usually obtained with a meat slicer. We found that when partially frozen, skirt steak’s thin profile and open-grained texture made for easy slicing, and its flavor was nearest to rib eye but without the sticker shock. To best approximate the wide griddle typically used in Philadelphia, we cooked the meat in two batches, letting any excess moisture drain off before giving it a final sear. Finally, to bind it all together, we let slices of American cheese melt into the meat, along with a bit of grated Parmesan to boost its flavor.
If skirt steak is unavailable, substitute sirloin steak tips (also called flap meat). Top these sandwiches with chopped pickled hot peppers, sautéed onions or bell peppers, sweet relish, or hot sauce.
INGREDIENTS
•2 pounds skirt steak , trimmed and sliced with grain into 3-inch-wide strips
•4 (8-inch) Italian sub rolls , split lengthwise
•2 tablespoons vegetable oil
•1/2 teaspoon salt
•1/8 teaspoon pepper
•1/4 cup grated Parmesan cheese
•8 slices white American cheese (8 ounces)
INSTRUCTIONS
1. Place steak pieces on large plate or baking sheet and freeze until very firm, about 1 hour.
2. Meanwhile, adjust oven rack to middle position and heat oven to 400 degrees. Spread split rolls on baking sheet and toast until lightly browned, 5 to 10 minutes.
3. Using sharp knife, shave steak pieces as thinly as possible against grain. Mound meat on cutting board and chop coarsely with knife 10 to 20 times.
4. Heat 1 tablespoon oil in 12-inch nonstick skillet over high heat until smoking. Add half of meat in even layer and cook without stirring until well browned on 1 side, 4 to 5 minutes. Stir and continue to cook until meat is no longer pink, 1 to 2 minutes. Transfer meat to colander set in large bowl. Wipe out skillet with paper towel. Repeat with remaining 1 tablespoon oil and sliced meat.
5. Return now-empty skillet to medium heat. Drain excess moisture from meat. Return meat to skillet (discard any liquid in bowl) and add salt and pepper. Heat, stirring constantly, until meat is warmed through, 1 to 2 minutes. Reduce heat to low, sprinkle with Parmesan, and shingle slices of American cheese over meat. Allow cheeses to melt, about 2 minutes. Using heatproof spatula or wooden spoon, fold melted cheese into meat thoroughly. Divide mixture evenly among toasted rolls. Serve immediately.
posted by JABof72 at 2:20 AM on November 5, 2013
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1. You cannot get a cheese steak at a (kosher) Jewish restaurant. In fact, at kosher restaurants in NYC they have to have separate kitchens if they are doing both dairy and meat (which usually results in side-by-side restaurants IF they do well enough to offer both). Basically, you have to choose one or the other to be sure that no dairy ever touches the stove on which the meat is cooked and vice versa.
I'll let others answer the second question, as I just returned from a trip to Philadelphia in which I did not eat any cheese steak.
posted by brina at 6:02 AM on November 4, 2013 [1 favorite]