My partner has a child, he's feuding with the mother, I can't handle it
October 29, 2013 5:54 PM Subscribe
I'm stuck in the town where I just finished university, because I'm engaged to Jake, who has a child here, Finn. Jake had Finn with Kaitlyn when she was 16 and he was 18. Finn is now 4. I could move anywhere I want and make a living. I'm happy with Jake, but I'm unhappy with life as a whole, depressed, have low self-esteem. Jake has only limited contact rights to his son and a whole lot of trouble with Kaitlyn, who hates me. We live together and I am the sole-earner in this household, in the awful UK economy. I haven't left the house all year, I've just been working yet I'm still in debt and I want to get away. On the other hand I love Jake, we have so much in common and we never even argue, even though the year that we've been together life has been very difficult. We really love and respect each other. I have great hope in him, I'm excited to meet his son and I think we could make a life together. Except it would all take years. And I'm at the end of my tether and want to leave now.
Hi there, I'm at a really weird, messed up point in my life again and am facing big decisions. Since friends and family are always a little biased or judgemental, I decided to come here again, because this wonderful community has really helped me with my problems in the past. So I thank you in advance, as this is once again a long and complex problem.
Basically, I grew up in Germany and I'm living in the UK now, because I got my degree here. I'm 23, I started my degree in 2009 and graduated this summer. I am privileged to have a well-paying freelance translating career that allows me to live anywhere I want in the world, so that area is sorted. My problem is, I'm dating a guy who had a child when he was 18.
Let's call my partner Jake, Jake is 22. Jake had Finn with his teenage girlfriend Kaitlyn in 2009. Kaitlyn left Jake when Finn was 8 months, Jake had spent his entire inheritance from his mother's death on buying a house and everything for his family. Kaitlyn moved from place to place with Finn, different men's houses, friends, boyfriends, her parents. Finn never lived in one place for longer than a year, and most unfortunately, Finn never had regular contact to his father Jake. Kaitlyn would allow some sort of regularity from time to time, allowing Jake to see Finn on weekends or holidays but she would never allow Jake to have Finn over night. Kaitlyn and Jake had a very cold, at best cordial relationship throughout Finn's life. Finn has pretty much never seen his parents together, not even in photos.
Now Finn is four. After Kaitlyn left him Jake was very depressed, took drugs and got into bad, abusive relationships with women that further destroyed his already fragile relationship with Kaitlyn. This went on for one to two years. Then last year in June, Jake and I started dating. At first Kaitlyn still allowed Jake to take Finn to the library or park for a whole day almost each weekend. Out of respect, I kept my distance and never met Finn.
Then in November, out of the blue, Kaitlyn wanted to speak to Jake. She made it clear that Jake would be allowed to see Finn for the last time on Christmas and then she wanted nothing to do with Jake any more, she claimed he was on drugs and unfit to be in his son's life.
Jake and I have been remarkably happy for the year we've been together, given the circumstances. He hasn't been able to see his son. We shared a flat with my sister and her boyfriend who we then had a big disagreement with. They've moved out now and my sister and I don't speak any more. I've been very stressed financially, totally broke in fact, and so I haven't really left the house for the entire year, despite plans of going on holiday and to festivals. I've been depressed, I've had a bunch of health problems (bacterial infections, scabies, endometriosis, ovarian cyst) that have really destroyed my self-confidence. I did graduate with a good mark, immediately afterwards I decided to shave my head. A strange move, and my self-esteem is kind of hurt by it now also.
I respect and love Jake very much. He is a very talented music producer. He's signed and he is on the way to building a career for himself, but he needs to move somewhere bigger than this town to actually get gigs and a good network. His internet presence is great but he needs to make some money, as I'm the only earner here and I'm in a ton of debt.
We're engaged, and we live together. I've been in a few relationships before, some quite serious, and I do love Jake, he's a wonderful, unique person, he treats me very very well, we have everything in common from our music taste to our political views to diet, life philosophy, childhood problems. Half a year ago I was excited about building a life with Jake. I was excited about meeting Finn. I was enthusiastic about helping Jake find his way, and improving both of our lives, making us respectable and getting Finn to move in with us in the end. We decided to get married. Only he never got me an engagement ring, and never asked my father as he requested (in a friendly, buddy-like way). He just assures me he wants to do it. He says he just wants to sort out his life first, a job, seeing his son etc.
The problem is, we're stuck here in this really small town in the middle of nowhere. And this is where we'll have to stay, because Finn and Kaitlyn live here. I've had job offers from all over the world! Accra, Las Vegas, Berlin... and I've turned them down. Out of love... am I crazy? I'm starting to think so. Jake will never make any money here, the UK is going down the drain, life here will just continue to become more and more grim.
All this year Jake tried to contact Kaitlyn. She disappeared completely. He didn't know where she lived with Finn, she didn't answer the phone or email or texts. She blocked Jake on facebook. Jake sent presents, letters, he followed her in the street asking for answers. She wouldn't budge. Then in August she had a baby.
Jake got a lawyer in Spring, filed for court in Summer, and last week they had their hearing. Kaitlyn would not speak to Jake outside the courtroom at all. The court ordered that Jake could immediately see Finn every second weekend for two hours, at Kaitlyn's parent's house. This was to be increased to four hours and then six. Another hearing is planned for February. Now the thing is, the very first line of the court order is: “Upon the applicant agreeing not to involve his girlfriend in any contact provided for this order...”
Kaitlyn hates me. I tried to give her a gift once, some cookies I baked and some tea, in a cute tin. She wouldn't even talk to me to give the gift back she literally just looked inside, put it on a table and left. That was definitely the last kind gesture I was going to try and make for her. I get it, she doesn't want me in the picture. It's fine, I wouldn't have wanted to invade anyway for a while, until Finn is even comfortable with his own father again. But the whole situation just continues to sicken me.
I just honestly think they're both bad parents and I really pity their child. My parents are divorced and it messed myself and my sibling up. If Jake and Kaitlyn's toxic relationship hurts me so much, I can only imagine how much it hurts little Finn. I find myself being angry and Kaitlyn and hating her and wishing she would disappear, but in the end, as awful as she is, maybe she isn't the only problem in this whole equation.
Why do all these terrible problems have to be my problems? Finn will be severely negatively impacted by Kaitlyn and Jake's awful relationship. Kaitlyn's immaturity, social awkwardness and vindictiveness (she told Finn he couldn't see his dad because his dad couldn't be trusted to look after him. Great parenting.) Jake's defeatism and and apathy at times.
I can only imagine the future becoming more and more depressing, when really I had other plans for my life. Whatever that will be, maybe having children of my own (if I even can, which is unlikely, due to aforementioned health problems.) who won't be born into this poisonous, angry feud.
Basically, I'm 23, I want to make my own decisions and go for the things I want in life, not be stuck in someone else's rut because I'm in love with them. But then I worry I'm giving up something I should actually just work on. I don't know whether to give it time or to get away as fast as I can, do something completely different, and never think about Kaitlyn and any of her children again.
Hi there, I'm at a really weird, messed up point in my life again and am facing big decisions. Since friends and family are always a little biased or judgemental, I decided to come here again, because this wonderful community has really helped me with my problems in the past. So I thank you in advance, as this is once again a long and complex problem.
Basically, I grew up in Germany and I'm living in the UK now, because I got my degree here. I'm 23, I started my degree in 2009 and graduated this summer. I am privileged to have a well-paying freelance translating career that allows me to live anywhere I want in the world, so that area is sorted. My problem is, I'm dating a guy who had a child when he was 18.
Let's call my partner Jake, Jake is 22. Jake had Finn with his teenage girlfriend Kaitlyn in 2009. Kaitlyn left Jake when Finn was 8 months, Jake had spent his entire inheritance from his mother's death on buying a house and everything for his family. Kaitlyn moved from place to place with Finn, different men's houses, friends, boyfriends, her parents. Finn never lived in one place for longer than a year, and most unfortunately, Finn never had regular contact to his father Jake. Kaitlyn would allow some sort of regularity from time to time, allowing Jake to see Finn on weekends or holidays but she would never allow Jake to have Finn over night. Kaitlyn and Jake had a very cold, at best cordial relationship throughout Finn's life. Finn has pretty much never seen his parents together, not even in photos.
Now Finn is four. After Kaitlyn left him Jake was very depressed, took drugs and got into bad, abusive relationships with women that further destroyed his already fragile relationship with Kaitlyn. This went on for one to two years. Then last year in June, Jake and I started dating. At first Kaitlyn still allowed Jake to take Finn to the library or park for a whole day almost each weekend. Out of respect, I kept my distance and never met Finn.
Then in November, out of the blue, Kaitlyn wanted to speak to Jake. She made it clear that Jake would be allowed to see Finn for the last time on Christmas and then she wanted nothing to do with Jake any more, she claimed he was on drugs and unfit to be in his son's life.
Jake and I have been remarkably happy for the year we've been together, given the circumstances. He hasn't been able to see his son. We shared a flat with my sister and her boyfriend who we then had a big disagreement with. They've moved out now and my sister and I don't speak any more. I've been very stressed financially, totally broke in fact, and so I haven't really left the house for the entire year, despite plans of going on holiday and to festivals. I've been depressed, I've had a bunch of health problems (bacterial infections, scabies, endometriosis, ovarian cyst) that have really destroyed my self-confidence. I did graduate with a good mark, immediately afterwards I decided to shave my head. A strange move, and my self-esteem is kind of hurt by it now also.
I respect and love Jake very much. He is a very talented music producer. He's signed and he is on the way to building a career for himself, but he needs to move somewhere bigger than this town to actually get gigs and a good network. His internet presence is great but he needs to make some money, as I'm the only earner here and I'm in a ton of debt.
We're engaged, and we live together. I've been in a few relationships before, some quite serious, and I do love Jake, he's a wonderful, unique person, he treats me very very well, we have everything in common from our music taste to our political views to diet, life philosophy, childhood problems. Half a year ago I was excited about building a life with Jake. I was excited about meeting Finn. I was enthusiastic about helping Jake find his way, and improving both of our lives, making us respectable and getting Finn to move in with us in the end. We decided to get married. Only he never got me an engagement ring, and never asked my father as he requested (in a friendly, buddy-like way). He just assures me he wants to do it. He says he just wants to sort out his life first, a job, seeing his son etc.
The problem is, we're stuck here in this really small town in the middle of nowhere. And this is where we'll have to stay, because Finn and Kaitlyn live here. I've had job offers from all over the world! Accra, Las Vegas, Berlin... and I've turned them down. Out of love... am I crazy? I'm starting to think so. Jake will never make any money here, the UK is going down the drain, life here will just continue to become more and more grim.
All this year Jake tried to contact Kaitlyn. She disappeared completely. He didn't know where she lived with Finn, she didn't answer the phone or email or texts. She blocked Jake on facebook. Jake sent presents, letters, he followed her in the street asking for answers. She wouldn't budge. Then in August she had a baby.
Jake got a lawyer in Spring, filed for court in Summer, and last week they had their hearing. Kaitlyn would not speak to Jake outside the courtroom at all. The court ordered that Jake could immediately see Finn every second weekend for two hours, at Kaitlyn's parent's house. This was to be increased to four hours and then six. Another hearing is planned for February. Now the thing is, the very first line of the court order is: “Upon the applicant agreeing not to involve his girlfriend in any contact provided for this order...”
Kaitlyn hates me. I tried to give her a gift once, some cookies I baked and some tea, in a cute tin. She wouldn't even talk to me to give the gift back she literally just looked inside, put it on a table and left. That was definitely the last kind gesture I was going to try and make for her. I get it, she doesn't want me in the picture. It's fine, I wouldn't have wanted to invade anyway for a while, until Finn is even comfortable with his own father again. But the whole situation just continues to sicken me.
I just honestly think they're both bad parents and I really pity their child. My parents are divorced and it messed myself and my sibling up. If Jake and Kaitlyn's toxic relationship hurts me so much, I can only imagine how much it hurts little Finn. I find myself being angry and Kaitlyn and hating her and wishing she would disappear, but in the end, as awful as she is, maybe she isn't the only problem in this whole equation.
Why do all these terrible problems have to be my problems? Finn will be severely negatively impacted by Kaitlyn and Jake's awful relationship. Kaitlyn's immaturity, social awkwardness and vindictiveness (she told Finn he couldn't see his dad because his dad couldn't be trusted to look after him. Great parenting.) Jake's defeatism and and apathy at times.
I can only imagine the future becoming more and more depressing, when really I had other plans for my life. Whatever that will be, maybe having children of my own (if I even can, which is unlikely, due to aforementioned health problems.) who won't be born into this poisonous, angry feud.
Basically, I'm 23, I want to make my own decisions and go for the things I want in life, not be stuck in someone else's rut because I'm in love with them. But then I worry I'm giving up something I should actually just work on. I don't know whether to give it time or to get away as fast as I can, do something completely different, and never think about Kaitlyn and any of her children again.
I totally give you permission to break up with Jake.
posted by spunweb at 6:02 PM on October 29, 2013 [34 favorites]
posted by spunweb at 6:02 PM on October 29, 2013 [34 favorites]
Kaitlyn and Finn are part of the package with Jake. It's ok to leave Jake for greener pastures because of it. I wouldn't tell Jake that's the reason for breaking up because you don't want it twisted into you hating or being jealous of his child or some nonsense. Also, ask yourself if you are really even engaged or if you just talked about marriage - those are 2 very distinct things.
posted by WeekendJen at 6:05 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 6:05 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
You're far too young to be tied down with all these problems that you had no hand in causing. Break things off and take one of those fabulous job offers in a shiny new city.
posted by xingcat at 6:08 PM on October 29, 2013 [28 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 6:08 PM on October 29, 2013 [28 favorites]
I don't think this situation is something you need to work on or make work if you don't want to, and it sounds like you don't want to. You're 23 and the world is your oyster - go do things that excite you and feed your soul instead of staying in a life that feels grim.
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:09 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:09 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
In your last question you were struggling with heavy alcohol and drug use and borderline personality disorder. You were arrested, you dropped out. This in 2012.
Now you are engaged to a lad who didn't know where his kid lived yet he "followed [the mother] on the streets"... Also, [loads more drama]. You are 'privileged to have a well-paying career' yet are 'broke.'
However [prospect of desirable employment]
...? Just move on.
posted by kmennie at 6:11 PM on October 29, 2013 [30 favorites]
Now you are engaged to a lad who didn't know where his kid lived yet he "followed [the mother] on the streets"... Also, [loads more drama]. You are 'privileged to have a well-paying career' yet are 'broke.'
However [prospect of desirable employment]
...? Just move on.
posted by kmennie at 6:11 PM on October 29, 2013 [30 favorites]
I just honestly think they're both bad parents and I really pity their child.
Do not marry someone you think is a bad parent.
posted by ook at 6:16 PM on October 29, 2013 [84 favorites]
Do not marry someone you think is a bad parent.
posted by ook at 6:16 PM on October 29, 2013 [84 favorites]
"I was enthusiastic about helping Jake find his way, and improving both of our lives, making us respectable"
The only person who can change Jake is Jake.
Get out while you still can, before Jake also impregnates you, and you're stuck with him in that grim, awful town forever.
If you want to respect yourself again, you need to leave. Now.
posted by hush at 6:18 PM on October 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
The only person who can change Jake is Jake.
Get out while you still can, before Jake also impregnates you, and you're stuck with him in that grim, awful town forever.
If you want to respect yourself again, you need to leave. Now.
posted by hush at 6:18 PM on October 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
I am married to a man with 2 children from a previous marriage. We have made it work, through 18 years or hard, hard work, and the kids are fine, and us adults are all civil. So it CAN be done. But you don't have to, if you don't want to. Being a stepparent is a commitment to the kids involved, but it's also a lifetime relationship with the other parent. That's a daunting thing, when you're dealing with someone unpleasant or unstable. It sounds like you're having a hard time making that commitment to Jake, let alone his kid and his ex.
It's ok to go.
posted by Biblio at 6:25 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's ok to go.
posted by Biblio at 6:25 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
sometimes, no matter how much you love and respect each other, things just don't work out. why? for reasons. there are SO MANY REASONS things don't work out.
you have your reasons. part with jake as amicably as possible, move on, and make your way for yourself.
posted by koroshiya at 6:30 PM on October 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
you have your reasons. part with jake as amicably as possible, move on, and make your way for yourself.
posted by koroshiya at 6:30 PM on October 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
What happened to the house Jake spent his entire inheritance from his mother on? Why did you share a flat with your sister and her boyfriend and what caused the big row?
Why do all these terrible problems have to be my problems?
Well, none of them actually are your problems. BTW if he has court-ordered supervised visits with his child there will be very good reasons for that: the family courts have looked at all the evidence and decided he needs to prove himself before he can be trusted alone with the child.
posted by glasseyes at 6:39 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
Why do all these terrible problems have to be my problems?
Well, none of them actually are your problems. BTW if he has court-ordered supervised visits with his child there will be very good reasons for that: the family courts have looked at all the evidence and decided he needs to prove himself before he can be trusted alone with the child.
posted by glasseyes at 6:39 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
Best answer: It seems like you really, REALLY hate where you live, not just specifically but the UK in general. You also need to recognize that Jake absolutely cannot leave there because that is where his son lives. If you are going to build a life with Jake -- and that is what being married is, building a life and not just a relationship with each other -- it will need to be in the UK.
With the understanding that I don't know either of you, it looks like you have a lot to figure out (mental and physical health stuff) before you can really figure out what kind of life you actually want to build. It doesn't seem like you have a strong sense of how to get the life you want and it seems like, while you love Jake and enjoy being with him, he is not actually meeting your life/relationship needs.
With all this in mind, it seems like you will probably regret getting married and probably not regret leaving. Based purely on what you've said here (which is not actually that much so take my advice with a grain of salt), if you look back in twenty years I don't think you'll regret not marrying this man. I know that all of this is very difficult to process, but it seems like there's too much unsureness and difficulty and drama here for getting married to be a good idea.
Very best wishes to you whatever you decide!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:41 PM on October 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
With the understanding that I don't know either of you, it looks like you have a lot to figure out (mental and physical health stuff) before you can really figure out what kind of life you actually want to build. It doesn't seem like you have a strong sense of how to get the life you want and it seems like, while you love Jake and enjoy being with him, he is not actually meeting your life/relationship needs.
With all this in mind, it seems like you will probably regret getting married and probably not regret leaving. Based purely on what you've said here (which is not actually that much so take my advice with a grain of salt), if you look back in twenty years I don't think you'll regret not marrying this man. I know that all of this is very difficult to process, but it seems like there's too much unsureness and difficulty and drama here for getting married to be a good idea.
Very best wishes to you whatever you decide!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:41 PM on October 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
You need to get out of this situation. There's plenty of nice guys out there. You'll meet another one.
posted by bleep at 6:42 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by bleep at 6:42 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm 23.
Get out. You can fall in love again.
posted by 256 at 6:44 PM on October 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Get out. You can fall in love again.
posted by 256 at 6:44 PM on October 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Basically, I'm 23, I want to make my own decisions and go for the things I want in life, not be stuck in someone else's rut because I'm in love with them.
The best advice I would give 23 year old me is to not talk yourself out of your core's deepest truths. The part of you that's committed to your self -- the part of you that's most honest and most self-protective -- is telling you what you need to know.
posted by spunweb at 6:47 PM on October 29, 2013 [19 favorites]
The best advice I would give 23 year old me is to not talk yourself out of your core's deepest truths. The part of you that's committed to your self -- the part of you that's most honest and most self-protective -- is telling you what you need to know.
posted by spunweb at 6:47 PM on October 29, 2013 [19 favorites]
Also, you know, apart from wanting to leave being reason enough to do so, if you really need more of a push, there are a lot of red flags going up. He says he wants to get married, then suddenly there's all of these other things he wants to settle first? He's "building a career", but you've been the sole earner for over a year? The whole thing about the flat and the estrangement with your sister?
After Kaitlyn left him Jake was very depressed, took drugs and got into bad, abusive relationships with women that further destroyed his already fragile relationship with Kaitlyn. This went on for one to two years.
[...]
He's signed and he is on the way to building a career for himself, but he needs to move somewhere bigger than this town to actually get gigs and a good network. His internet presence is great but he needs to make some money, as I'm the only earner here and I'm in a ton of debt.
[...]
Half a year ago I was excited about building a life with Jake. I was excited about meeting Finn. I was enthusiastic about helping Jake find his way, and improving both of our lives, making us respectable and getting Finn to move in with us in the end. We decided to get married. Only he never got me an engagement ring, and never asked my father as he requested (in a friendly, buddy-like way). He just assures me he wants to do it. He says he just wants to sort out his life first, a job, seeing his son etc.
[...]
he followed her in the street asking for answers.
[...]
(she told Finn he couldn't see his dad because his dad couldn't be trusted to look after him. Great parenting.)
I agree that was probably not the kindest or most mature way to present the situation to their young son, but I'm not sure she's wrong.
posted by kagredon at 6:50 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
After Kaitlyn left him Jake was very depressed, took drugs and got into bad, abusive relationships with women that further destroyed his already fragile relationship with Kaitlyn. This went on for one to two years.
[...]
He's signed and he is on the way to building a career for himself, but he needs to move somewhere bigger than this town to actually get gigs and a good network. His internet presence is great but he needs to make some money, as I'm the only earner here and I'm in a ton of debt.
[...]
Half a year ago I was excited about building a life with Jake. I was excited about meeting Finn. I was enthusiastic about helping Jake find his way, and improving both of our lives, making us respectable and getting Finn to move in with us in the end. We decided to get married. Only he never got me an engagement ring, and never asked my father as he requested (in a friendly, buddy-like way). He just assures me he wants to do it. He says he just wants to sort out his life first, a job, seeing his son etc.
[...]
he followed her in the street asking for answers.
[...]
(she told Finn he couldn't see his dad because his dad couldn't be trusted to look after him. Great parenting.)
I agree that was probably not the kindest or most mature way to present the situation to their young son, but I'm not sure she's wrong.
posted by kagredon at 6:50 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I can only imagine the future becoming more and more depressing, when really I had other plans for my life.
In a supportive, stable relationship you do not have to give up your life in order to be a partner to the other person. At the beginning of your post, it sounds like the only thing you are happy with right now is Jake, but then you go on to talk about how much strife being with him causes you. This is only one year in. A relationship does not have to be a test of emotional endurance. And, besides, there is so much more to life than romantic relationships, as you seem to realize yourself.
Have you talked to him about how you feel about the town you're living in? About how you feel about your future life together? Most of your question addressed Jake's problems and how to cope with them. Bluntly, you don't have to. From what you're saying, it sounds like you're reluctant to even talk to him about your viewpoints on this situation.
This is your life. Live it. Don't settle for being the supporting role in someone else's drama.
posted by sevenofspades at 7:01 PM on October 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
In a supportive, stable relationship you do not have to give up your life in order to be a partner to the other person. At the beginning of your post, it sounds like the only thing you are happy with right now is Jake, but then you go on to talk about how much strife being with him causes you. This is only one year in. A relationship does not have to be a test of emotional endurance. And, besides, there is so much more to life than romantic relationships, as you seem to realize yourself.
Have you talked to him about how you feel about the town you're living in? About how you feel about your future life together? Most of your question addressed Jake's problems and how to cope with them. Bluntly, you don't have to. From what you're saying, it sounds like you're reluctant to even talk to him about your viewpoints on this situation.
This is your life. Live it. Don't settle for being the supporting role in someone else's drama.
posted by sevenofspades at 7:01 PM on October 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
These aren't problems you can solve. Working on them won't help. Only Jake and Kaitlyn can fix things and that doesn't sound too likely.
Leave. Get out of that small town. Maybe leave the UK.
posted by Area Man at 7:02 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Leave. Get out of that small town. Maybe leave the UK.
posted by Area Man at 7:02 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Please get out and move on.
posted by Perplexity at 7:11 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Perplexity at 7:11 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Why do all these terrible problems have to be my problems?
Because you're planning to marry Finn's father and Kaitlyn's co-parent--you can't have just Jake-the-partner, you can only have the whole person--and you're doing it to try to solve the problems. Getting married won't solve the problems, it'll just tie you to them, legally.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:15 PM on October 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Because you're planning to marry Finn's father and Kaitlyn's co-parent--you can't have just Jake-the-partner, you can only have the whole person--and you're doing it to try to solve the problems. Getting married won't solve the problems, it'll just tie you to them, legally.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:15 PM on October 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I am privileged to have a well-paying freelance translating career that allows me to live anywhere I want in the world, so that area is sorted.
Please, please please go live your awesome life. Jake and his problems do not have to be your problems! You have no children, no reason to keep this albatross of a situation looped around your neck. Tell him it's not working out and GO!
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:17 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
Please, please please go live your awesome life. Jake and his problems do not have to be your problems! You have no children, no reason to keep this albatross of a situation looped around your neck. Tell him it's not working out and GO!
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:17 PM on October 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
Best answer: You have the opportunity to start a fulfilling, rewarding and exciting life. Take those fantastic offers and go see the world. You will grow in ways you can't imagine now and you will find love and a compatible partner again. Don't lock yourself in a small town where you don't have opportunities. You are too young to collapse your path.
Jake needs to concentrate 100% on fixing his situation with his child. The mother sounds chaotic and if Jake has good professional prospects and a desire to be parent to his young son, he needs to pursue that with no distractions. His child needs a stable parent who can prioritize him, that's his first responsibility.
It's ok for you both to make these decisions. It doesn't mean that you don't love one another, it means that you're both taking the bigger picture into account and your individual priorities seriously.
posted by quince at 7:35 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Jake needs to concentrate 100% on fixing his situation with his child. The mother sounds chaotic and if Jake has good professional prospects and a desire to be parent to his young son, he needs to pursue that with no distractions. His child needs a stable parent who can prioritize him, that's his first responsibility.
It's ok for you both to make these decisions. It doesn't mean that you don't love one another, it means that you're both taking the bigger picture into account and your individual priorities seriously.
posted by quince at 7:35 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would tell you the same thing if you were 33 or 43 or 53. Life is too short.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:55 PM on October 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:55 PM on October 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
Go. Just go. You have an internet stranger's permission to just go.
posted by RogueTech at 7:55 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by RogueTech at 7:55 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
You are saying that you love Jake. But then you are giving a lot of reasons why you don't LIKE him. That doesn't bode well. You think he's a terrible parent? That is a giant red flag waving at you.
Also, listen, he's not allowed to have more custody of his child because he up until recently was a drug addict. That doesn't seem surprising to me at all, and neither do Kaitlyn's actions in trying to keep her son away from your fiancé. You might want to re-evaluate your perspective if you aren't making this connection. Being a drug addict is a pretty serious problem and definitely hurts a person's parenting credentials big time. There might be things he has done related to this issue that give Kaitlyn (and a judge) many reasons to doubt his trustworthiness as a father for a very long time. Are you sure you are aware of the whole situation here? And I'm sorry to suggest this possibility, but are you sure that he is no longer on drugs? Drug addicts are notorious for lying about their drug use.
Now, please go take one of those glamorous job offers and move on from your current bleak sounding situation.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:09 PM on October 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
Also, listen, he's not allowed to have more custody of his child because he up until recently was a drug addict. That doesn't seem surprising to me at all, and neither do Kaitlyn's actions in trying to keep her son away from your fiancé. You might want to re-evaluate your perspective if you aren't making this connection. Being a drug addict is a pretty serious problem and definitely hurts a person's parenting credentials big time. There might be things he has done related to this issue that give Kaitlyn (and a judge) many reasons to doubt his trustworthiness as a father for a very long time. Are you sure you are aware of the whole situation here? And I'm sorry to suggest this possibility, but are you sure that he is no longer on drugs? Drug addicts are notorious for lying about their drug use.
Now, please go take one of those glamorous job offers and move on from your current bleak sounding situation.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:09 PM on October 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
You will absolutely find other people to love and be loved by if you do leave this very messy, sub-optimal relationship situation.
posted by Kaleidoscope at 8:19 PM on October 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Kaleidoscope at 8:19 PM on October 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
>Kaitlyn left Jake when Finn was 8 months,
>After Kaitlyn left him Jake was very depressed, took drugs and got into bad, abusive relationships with women
>I just honestly think they're both bad parents
You're right about him. It's not time to do drugs and act shit out when you've got an eight-month-old kid, it's time to get yourself together like never before. If I were the mother, I'd be trying to stay away from him, and from you as well. If I were you, I would drop this guy like a wet slice of bread.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:21 PM on October 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
>After Kaitlyn left him Jake was very depressed, took drugs and got into bad, abusive relationships with women
>I just honestly think they're both bad parents
You're right about him. It's not time to do drugs and act shit out when you've got an eight-month-old kid, it's time to get yourself together like never before. If I were the mother, I'd be trying to stay away from him, and from you as well. If I were you, I would drop this guy like a wet slice of bread.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:21 PM on October 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Jake may be a nice dude, but this life situation is bad, probably not likely to improve, and it literally pins you down if you stick with him. I would bet that you will feel sooooooo free and relieved if you dump him and move elsewhere. 23 is too young to have to settle for this drama when you don't have to.
Also, while it's not totally like your situation, watch the movie Before Midnight to get a taste of how much fun this kind of drama (i.e. babymamma HATES your SO) will be after about a decade.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:26 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, while it's not totally like your situation, watch the movie Before Midnight to get a taste of how much fun this kind of drama (i.e. babymamma HATES your SO) will be after about a decade.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:26 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Another internet stranger, here, telling you it's perfectly OK to get the hell out of this situation.
You've written a lot of things here about Jake, Kaitlyn, and Finn. While I know you love Jake and thus feel like all this Jake/Kaitlyn/Finn stuff involves you in some way, it just... doesn't. None of that is about you. How often Kaitlyn lets Jake see Finn is not about you. How many other men Kaitlyn has been with is not about you. Whether Finn has ever seen a photograph of his parents together is not about you.
You come off as being waaaay too young for all this. It's a time in your life where you're ready to live for yourself a little bit, have some fun, and taste a little bit of the point of all that expensive education and hard work at your new career. But instead, you're internalizing the other life of this guy who it sounds like has sown his wild oats plenty.
I know this stuff is messy. It's not easy to turn your feelings for someone off because you can't take where they are in their life right now. But everyone here is right. Life is too short.
At the very least, I would treat yourself to a vacation. Go spend as long as you can somewhere else, just living for yourself and taking a break. It's your decision how long that is. Since you're location independent for work, I'm tempted to tell you to go spend a few months abroad. But if you'd rather just go away for a week or two, I think you should do that if you can at all afford it.
Also, I'm sorry, but how the hell did you come to be the sole wage earner between you and your fiance? I know the economy sucks and unemployment is a thing (and I've been un/underemployed a lot of the last year, myself), but it always rubs me the wrong way when I see a couple where the woman works her ass off, the guy is chronically unemployed and supported by the woman, and he has a shitload of constraints that are limiting what the woman can do with her life. Like, if he was unemployed and willing to follow you anywhere as long as he's home at Christmas to see his kid? OK. But despite doing NOTHING for himself, somehow he holds all the cards, here. What is that about? Again, I know you love this guy, but just sit down try to take your own side for just a second, here.
posted by Sara C. at 8:30 PM on October 29, 2013 [12 favorites]
You've written a lot of things here about Jake, Kaitlyn, and Finn. While I know you love Jake and thus feel like all this Jake/Kaitlyn/Finn stuff involves you in some way, it just... doesn't. None of that is about you. How often Kaitlyn lets Jake see Finn is not about you. How many other men Kaitlyn has been with is not about you. Whether Finn has ever seen a photograph of his parents together is not about you.
You come off as being waaaay too young for all this. It's a time in your life where you're ready to live for yourself a little bit, have some fun, and taste a little bit of the point of all that expensive education and hard work at your new career. But instead, you're internalizing the other life of this guy who it sounds like has sown his wild oats plenty.
I know this stuff is messy. It's not easy to turn your feelings for someone off because you can't take where they are in their life right now. But everyone here is right. Life is too short.
At the very least, I would treat yourself to a vacation. Go spend as long as you can somewhere else, just living for yourself and taking a break. It's your decision how long that is. Since you're location independent for work, I'm tempted to tell you to go spend a few months abroad. But if you'd rather just go away for a week or two, I think you should do that if you can at all afford it.
Also, I'm sorry, but how the hell did you come to be the sole wage earner between you and your fiance? I know the economy sucks and unemployment is a thing (and I've been un/underemployed a lot of the last year, myself), but it always rubs me the wrong way when I see a couple where the woman works her ass off, the guy is chronically unemployed and supported by the woman, and he has a shitload of constraints that are limiting what the woman can do with her life. Like, if he was unemployed and willing to follow you anywhere as long as he's home at Christmas to see his kid? OK. But despite doing NOTHING for himself, somehow he holds all the cards, here. What is that about? Again, I know you love this guy, but just sit down try to take your own side for just a second, here.
posted by Sara C. at 8:30 PM on October 29, 2013 [12 favorites]
It's okay to love someone and still break up with them.
posted by flimflam at 8:41 PM on October 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by flimflam at 8:41 PM on October 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The best advice I would give 23 year old me is to not talk yourself out of your core's deepest truths. The part of you that's committed to your self -- the part of you that's most honest and most self-protective -- is telling you what you need to know.
This. Listen to your gut... it's trying to tell you something important. This relationship is not now or likely in the future going to be a healthy one for you and as much as you want to, you can't change Jake into a healthy person. Only Jake can do that - and he's not likely to be motivated to change when he's being enabled. By you.
So break your ties with Jake as compassionately as possible and move forward into a better life. And in the future, remember - don't settle for the first minimally qualified life partner you find - you deserve better. Best wishes for a happy future!
posted by summerstorm at 9:40 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
This. Listen to your gut... it's trying to tell you something important. This relationship is not now or likely in the future going to be a healthy one for you and as much as you want to, you can't change Jake into a healthy person. Only Jake can do that - and he's not likely to be motivated to change when he's being enabled. By you.
So break your ties with Jake as compassionately as possible and move forward into a better life. And in the future, remember - don't settle for the first minimally qualified life partner you find - you deserve better. Best wishes for a happy future!
posted by summerstorm at 9:40 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: If it helps then think about this - if you and Jake are meant to be, you'll be. But now you each have to look after yourselves - together just doesn't make sense and isn't making either of you stronger. You're not saving Jake and Finn, you're going down with them. Take one of your great job offers and go start building your life, and leave Jake room to grow (or not) and stand on his own two feet. If he does and you reconnect and respect the man and father he became, then who knows? But he isn't that man now - and you're not the woman you want to be and can like and respect either.
posted by Salamandrous at 9:43 PM on October 29, 2013
posted by Salamandrous at 9:43 PM on October 29, 2013
Best answer: I don't know if you need another person telling you that you should "make (your) own decisions and go for the things (you) want in life, not be stuck in someone else's rut because (you're) in love with them," but just in case, I'm going to do just that because it sounds like you know exactly what is in your best interest. As others have said upthread, there are some serious red flags here and there is a lot of potential awesomeness awaiting you, if you just follow your instincts and put yourself first right now.
What struck me while I was reading this is that you are all so young, and while this would be a messy situation at any age, there is no reason to resign yourself to a life you do not want. This doesn't mean that your love for Jake isn't real or diminish the value of your relationship thus far, but this is the time for you to pursue your happiness. Jake also needs this time to get his life together, and it sounds like he realizes this on some level, too. I'm not saying parting ways will be easy for either of you, but, from what your wrote, it seems like that's what you want and need. Keep in mind that goodbye for now doesn't mean goodbye for good. One chapter may be ending, but there's still a whole lot of book left to live. Best of luck!
posted by katemcd at 10:35 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
What struck me while I was reading this is that you are all so young, and while this would be a messy situation at any age, there is no reason to resign yourself to a life you do not want. This doesn't mean that your love for Jake isn't real or diminish the value of your relationship thus far, but this is the time for you to pursue your happiness. Jake also needs this time to get his life together, and it sounds like he realizes this on some level, too. I'm not saying parting ways will be easy for either of you, but, from what your wrote, it seems like that's what you want and need. Keep in mind that goodbye for now doesn't mean goodbye for good. One chapter may be ending, but there's still a whole lot of book left to live. Best of luck!
posted by katemcd at 10:35 PM on October 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like you love your bf but you are really young to sacrifice so much of your life in order to be with him. I'd break up and do know that if it's meant to be you two will find your way back to each other when you're a little older and more mature. I think once you are able to get out and live your life again your depression will lift. Take care.
posted by wildflower at 10:49 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by wildflower at 10:49 PM on October 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, do break up, this relationship doesn't sound healthy for anyone involved.
Please take time and care in your career decisions. I was worried from the second I read "I could move anywhere I want and make a living" and "I am privileged to have a well-paying freelance translating career". It made more sense when I reached the "totally broke" part. Long story short: do not feel bad if your freelance translating career is not that well-paid. It is normal.
I mention it because I suspect you are also being enticed by job offers that may not be as serious or as livable as they're presented. I realize this is a lot of assumption, but from your posting history, I worry you may be splitting your current situation into the clearest black and white possible, in order to make the decision easier. Sometimes we do this in life! It does sound awful with your boyfriend, and then with a potential career anywhere in the world sounding ideal. But there is a middle ground, and you'll be much more likely to avoid future situations like the one you're in now, if you take time to step back, get your grounding, and evaluate offers with a bit more distance and less urgency. If, for instance, any of these job offers are with translation agencies, please be very careful. Translation agencies are well-known for devouring project managers, especially young graduates who want/need the experience. I can't tell you how many young, talented translators I have seen take project manager positions abroad, only to have their lives in pieces two or three years later. Agencies will make it sound like you can have your cake and eat it too, because it is the only way they can find project managers, with very, very rare exceptions. (At your age, pardon my bluntness, but you are not among the exceptions. I am blunt because I have seen the fallout. In a few years, if you're still getting great offers and have solid recommendations from several clients who say you're the bomb over a significant period of time and projects, then you can indeed figure that you may be among the rare exceptions.) Everyone with experience in the field knows it, which is precisely why agencies focus on the youngest, least experienced translators they can find. You would be better off taking time to build up your client base as a freelancer, and using that as a solid foundation from which to find work.
While moving within the EU is not too much more difficult than moving within one's country, do also recognize that anywhere you'll need a work visa will come with loads more complications. If a job ends up falling through, your work visa linked to it, will also fall through. I don't mean to be alarming, living and working abroad can be an awesome experience; it just needs to be done with eyes wide open so that you have workable strategies in place in case anything goes wrong. Take care, take your time, start off with small steps so that larger ones can be practiced strides into an unknown that has a real backup, rather than jumps into an unknown with only promises.
posted by fraula at 1:28 AM on October 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
Please take time and care in your career decisions. I was worried from the second I read "I could move anywhere I want and make a living" and "I am privileged to have a well-paying freelance translating career". It made more sense when I reached the "totally broke" part. Long story short: do not feel bad if your freelance translating career is not that well-paid. It is normal.
I mention it because I suspect you are also being enticed by job offers that may not be as serious or as livable as they're presented. I realize this is a lot of assumption, but from your posting history, I worry you may be splitting your current situation into the clearest black and white possible, in order to make the decision easier. Sometimes we do this in life! It does sound awful with your boyfriend, and then with a potential career anywhere in the world sounding ideal. But there is a middle ground, and you'll be much more likely to avoid future situations like the one you're in now, if you take time to step back, get your grounding, and evaluate offers with a bit more distance and less urgency. If, for instance, any of these job offers are with translation agencies, please be very careful. Translation agencies are well-known for devouring project managers, especially young graduates who want/need the experience. I can't tell you how many young, talented translators I have seen take project manager positions abroad, only to have their lives in pieces two or three years later. Agencies will make it sound like you can have your cake and eat it too, because it is the only way they can find project managers, with very, very rare exceptions. (At your age, pardon my bluntness, but you are not among the exceptions. I am blunt because I have seen the fallout. In a few years, if you're still getting great offers and have solid recommendations from several clients who say you're the bomb over a significant period of time and projects, then you can indeed figure that you may be among the rare exceptions.) Everyone with experience in the field knows it, which is precisely why agencies focus on the youngest, least experienced translators they can find. You would be better off taking time to build up your client base as a freelancer, and using that as a solid foundation from which to find work.
While moving within the EU is not too much more difficult than moving within one's country, do also recognize that anywhere you'll need a work visa will come with loads more complications. If a job ends up falling through, your work visa linked to it, will also fall through. I don't mean to be alarming, living and working abroad can be an awesome experience; it just needs to be done with eyes wide open so that you have workable strategies in place in case anything goes wrong. Take care, take your time, start off with small steps so that larger ones can be practiced strides into an unknown that has a real backup, rather than jumps into an unknown with only promises.
posted by fraula at 1:28 AM on October 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
Please move on with your life: get away from this mess, and away from all of these people. You are extremely unhappy in this situation, and it will get even worse if you married this dude. Jake is going nowhere, and if you stay with him you won't go anywhere either.
You say Jake is a wonderful guy, but he's actually an unemployed drug addict who treats you like a piggybank, who stalks his ex-girlfriend (yes, 'stalks' --- how else to honestly describe that "following her in the streets"?!?) and who your local Child Services court feels cannot be trusted alone with a kid. It doesn't matter HOW much of a living you *think* he could potentially earn, as it is he's a broke drug addict without a job who is STILL somehow spending money presents for his ex and his kid. All of which indicates some pretty poor attitudes towards his responsibilities, responsibilities that include being a self-supporting adult (rather than sponging off other people), to his son (not just being a decent dad, but paying for Finn's support), and to you (which means not simply treating you as someone to pay his bills and clean up his messes).
As for Kaitlyn: you've got an awful lot of harsh things to say about her, but apparently you don't actually know her: all you THINK you know about her is merely whatever Jake has told you, and since she's his *ex* he's not a particularly fair observer, is he? What she actually is, is a 20-year-old mother of a 4-year-old who is trying to protect her son and herself from a drug addict and stalker. So she doesn't want to be your friend --- well, why SHOULD she? She doesn't know you, she doesn't *want* to know you (which is entirely her choice!), and becoming your friend would just be one more way to tie her to the ex (Jake) she wants nothing to do with.
Move on. Dump Jake before he drags you down to his level, leave Kaitlyn and Finn alone, move somewhere where YOU can be happy. You are way too young to tie yourself to this mess that really has nothing to do with you.
posted by easily confused at 3:12 AM on October 30, 2013 [10 favorites]
You say Jake is a wonderful guy, but he's actually an unemployed drug addict who treats you like a piggybank, who stalks his ex-girlfriend (yes, 'stalks' --- how else to honestly describe that "following her in the streets"?!?) and who your local Child Services court feels cannot be trusted alone with a kid. It doesn't matter HOW much of a living you *think* he could potentially earn, as it is he's a broke drug addict without a job who is STILL somehow spending money presents for his ex and his kid. All of which indicates some pretty poor attitudes towards his responsibilities, responsibilities that include being a self-supporting adult (rather than sponging off other people), to his son (not just being a decent dad, but paying for Finn's support), and to you (which means not simply treating you as someone to pay his bills and clean up his messes).
As for Kaitlyn: you've got an awful lot of harsh things to say about her, but apparently you don't actually know her: all you THINK you know about her is merely whatever Jake has told you, and since she's his *ex* he's not a particularly fair observer, is he? What she actually is, is a 20-year-old mother of a 4-year-old who is trying to protect her son and herself from a drug addict and stalker. So she doesn't want to be your friend --- well, why SHOULD she? She doesn't know you, she doesn't *want* to know you (which is entirely her choice!), and becoming your friend would just be one more way to tie her to the ex (Jake) she wants nothing to do with.
Move on. Dump Jake before he drags you down to his level, leave Kaitlyn and Finn alone, move somewhere where YOU can be happy. You are way too young to tie yourself to this mess that really has nothing to do with you.
posted by easily confused at 3:12 AM on October 30, 2013 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you so much for all your thoughtful, reflected answers, this is really really helping me put everything into perspective.
So although I've blabbed enough and you all seem to really understand the situation, I'll just add a few more things here to correct what I had maybe misrepresented. I was seeing very black and white when I wrote that post.
On my past, drugs and Jake:
In the last question, from early in 2012 I did have problems with mental health issues and drugs. Well, then I followed this forum's advice and broke up with Tim, moved back to the UK, went back to university and sorted my life out, My sister moved in with me because she finished high school and was feeling aimless and my parents were worried about her. I started dating Jake the minute I broke up with Tim, we had already been talking before I was back in the UK. So the rest of 2012, Jake and I really made strides in life actually, and we were very happy with everything. Jake was still seeing his son, he was doing different educational courses and he still had savings to live on. I was doing very well at university. We had a lot of friends, were always out and about, went on trips. My confidence was at an all-time-high and I was really happy with myself as a person for the first time in years, and it was definitely through the help of Jake, if not completely due to him.
We were both completely drug free the whole time we've been together. I've had drug addiction problems for maybe 6 years, Jake only did for one, in which the mother of his child also did drugs (they were both about 18 at the time). Jake had some minor problems with alcohol but when I asked him to stop drinking he did completely stop and he hasn't been drinking at all now for about 10 months. He started his music career a year ago, now he has offers from several record labels, and he gets job offers from all around the world too actually, good ones, as a music teacher, resident DJ, record deals etc. he just can't take them up while Kaitlyn is being so difficult about letting him see his son.
Like I think, it could all be okay, if Kaitlyn came around, let Jake have quality time with his son, so Jake and I could travel abroad when there are opportunities and still have his son whenever he's home. We have an extra room to accommodate Finn already and I've always been really good with other people's children.
And some more technicalities: I have dual US and EU citizenship so visas aren't a problem for a lot of places, neither would they be for Jake, if we got married. My job would be well paid if I wasn't so distracted and depressed all the time - it requires a lot of self discipline, but I am lucky as I'm taking over my mother's translating business so I am pretty much set no matter where I go or what I do.
As for the court order at the moment - Jake's lawyer thought it was beneficial to make an agreement with Kaitlyn prior to the hearing to make everything go faster and restore contact immediately. 2 supervised hours every 2 weeks was all she would agree to, although Jake's legal team and most of the court agreed there was really no reason why Jake couldn't have him unsupervised, as he had before. That's why there's another hearing in February.
This guy is on his way up, and he's very dedicated to me. I do tell him all of these concerns and he listens and he tells me the same everyone here is telling me "You should do what you want, you could have anything, I would understand if you left me". I just dream of how great it would be to fix everything. And as I type this he's just got a job as a web maintenance person for a cool shop near us, made loads of money on bandcamp, bought me lunch and is asking for me to come out to pick some candy to send his son for Halloween. *sigh*
posted by mangoprawn at 4:04 AM on October 30, 2013
So although I've blabbed enough and you all seem to really understand the situation, I'll just add a few more things here to correct what I had maybe misrepresented. I was seeing very black and white when I wrote that post.
On my past, drugs and Jake:
In the last question, from early in 2012 I did have problems with mental health issues and drugs. Well, then I followed this forum's advice and broke up with Tim, moved back to the UK, went back to university and sorted my life out, My sister moved in with me because she finished high school and was feeling aimless and my parents were worried about her. I started dating Jake the minute I broke up with Tim, we had already been talking before I was back in the UK. So the rest of 2012, Jake and I really made strides in life actually, and we were very happy with everything. Jake was still seeing his son, he was doing different educational courses and he still had savings to live on. I was doing very well at university. We had a lot of friends, were always out and about, went on trips. My confidence was at an all-time-high and I was really happy with myself as a person for the first time in years, and it was definitely through the help of Jake, if not completely due to him.
We were both completely drug free the whole time we've been together. I've had drug addiction problems for maybe 6 years, Jake only did for one, in which the mother of his child also did drugs (they were both about 18 at the time). Jake had some minor problems with alcohol but when I asked him to stop drinking he did completely stop and he hasn't been drinking at all now for about 10 months. He started his music career a year ago, now he has offers from several record labels, and he gets job offers from all around the world too actually, good ones, as a music teacher, resident DJ, record deals etc. he just can't take them up while Kaitlyn is being so difficult about letting him see his son.
Like I think, it could all be okay, if Kaitlyn came around, let Jake have quality time with his son, so Jake and I could travel abroad when there are opportunities and still have his son whenever he's home. We have an extra room to accommodate Finn already and I've always been really good with other people's children.
And some more technicalities: I have dual US and EU citizenship so visas aren't a problem for a lot of places, neither would they be for Jake, if we got married. My job would be well paid if I wasn't so distracted and depressed all the time - it requires a lot of self discipline, but I am lucky as I'm taking over my mother's translating business so I am pretty much set no matter where I go or what I do.
As for the court order at the moment - Jake's lawyer thought it was beneficial to make an agreement with Kaitlyn prior to the hearing to make everything go faster and restore contact immediately. 2 supervised hours every 2 weeks was all she would agree to, although Jake's legal team and most of the court agreed there was really no reason why Jake couldn't have him unsupervised, as he had before. That's why there's another hearing in February.
This guy is on his way up, and he's very dedicated to me. I do tell him all of these concerns and he listens and he tells me the same everyone here is telling me "You should do what you want, you could have anything, I would understand if you left me". I just dream of how great it would be to fix everything. And as I type this he's just got a job as a web maintenance person for a cool shop near us, made loads of money on bandcamp, bought me lunch and is asking for me to come out to pick some candy to send his son for Halloween. *sigh*
posted by mangoprawn at 4:04 AM on October 30, 2013
The reality is that Jake and Kaitlyn are not good parents. And it sounds like they both need a lot of help navigating their parenting world and that things between them are not healthy, which means things for their child are not healthy. Quite frankly, neither of them should be in relationships now until they sort the rest of themselves out. It's too big and too messy, and they're the ones on the inside of it.
You're going to marry this guy --- do you want to marry a guy who is not a good parent? You have evidence already that he's not. Do you want children? And if you do, do you really want them with Jake?
But aside from that, you need to know this:
Jake will never be able to move much more than maybe a town away. Where you are living now? That is where he will live for the rest of his life. He cannot go with you. He cannot live in the places you want to live. Even if he does sort himself out, even if Kaitlyn comes around (what does that even mean?), he will always live there. If everything else were perfect, would you really sacrifice your opportunities to stay in that place?
It's so clear you don't want that. I kinda wonder if you shouldn't hit up a meeting or go back to your therapist or whatever is that you did to become sober --- because some of what is here sounds like another kind of addiction forming -- not a chemical one, but one to this relationship or your idealistic version of this relationship that is just not going to happen.
posted by zizzle at 4:23 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
You're going to marry this guy --- do you want to marry a guy who is not a good parent? You have evidence already that he's not. Do you want children? And if you do, do you really want them with Jake?
But aside from that, you need to know this:
Jake will never be able to move much more than maybe a town away. Where you are living now? That is where he will live for the rest of his life. He cannot go with you. He cannot live in the places you want to live. Even if he does sort himself out, even if Kaitlyn comes around (what does that even mean?), he will always live there. If everything else were perfect, would you really sacrifice your opportunities to stay in that place?
It's so clear you don't want that. I kinda wonder if you shouldn't hit up a meeting or go back to your therapist or whatever is that you did to become sober --- because some of what is here sounds like another kind of addiction forming -- not a chemical one, but one to this relationship or your idealistic version of this relationship that is just not going to happen.
posted by zizzle at 4:23 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'll be blunt. Waiting on Kaitlin to change to make your life better is a fool's errand. She's shown no attempts to want to engage in co-parenting with Jake, and has gone so far as writing in a court order that you are not to be involved. She will always be a thorn in your side and you don't sound prepared to deal with that for, at a minimum, 14 more years. Let this relationship go and follow your dreams. You'll have more regrets being tied to one place for the rest of your life than you will otherwise.
posted by skittlekicks at 5:10 AM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by skittlekicks at 5:10 AM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
Just because you love someone, it doesn't mean that they are right for you, or that their situation is one that you should be involved in.
You are great at justifying your relationship, but at what cost?
Take one of those awesome jobs and move. Don't break up with Jake per se, just change it to a LDR. That way he can deal with his daily bullshit, and learn to stand on his own two feet. Either he sinks or he swims. This is an excellent test of his mettle.
Meanwhile, you get some distance and out of the town you despise. You're away from the drama and you can live for yourself for a while. You went from one terrible boyfriend to a troubled boyfriend and took NO TIME at all to reflect on why you made these choices. If you move, you can do that. You may discover that without the dramaz that you sleep better, are happier and suddenly Jake doesn't seem like much of a catch. (Because...hello!)
Jake needs to support himself. Yes the economy is terrible, but Jake can concentrate on getting a job and a little bedsit and basically getting his shit together. Perhaps he too leaves this grotty little town too. Your supporting him has be stunting his growth.
If you are afraid that without you being around, that Jake would fall back into drugs and shitty relationships, well, there you go. That's the kind of person he is.
You are not the savior, you can't make this situation better with love. It's not healthy right now, and you shouldn't even THINK of marrying this guy as it is. Frankly I don't think you should stay with him at all, but that's a decision YOU have to make.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:18 AM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
You are great at justifying your relationship, but at what cost?
Take one of those awesome jobs and move. Don't break up with Jake per se, just change it to a LDR. That way he can deal with his daily bullshit, and learn to stand on his own two feet. Either he sinks or he swims. This is an excellent test of his mettle.
Meanwhile, you get some distance and out of the town you despise. You're away from the drama and you can live for yourself for a while. You went from one terrible boyfriend to a troubled boyfriend and took NO TIME at all to reflect on why you made these choices. If you move, you can do that. You may discover that without the dramaz that you sleep better, are happier and suddenly Jake doesn't seem like much of a catch. (Because...hello!)
Jake needs to support himself. Yes the economy is terrible, but Jake can concentrate on getting a job and a little bedsit and basically getting his shit together. Perhaps he too leaves this grotty little town too. Your supporting him has be stunting his growth.
If you are afraid that without you being around, that Jake would fall back into drugs and shitty relationships, well, there you go. That's the kind of person he is.
You are not the savior, you can't make this situation better with love. It's not healthy right now, and you shouldn't even THINK of marrying this guy as it is. Frankly I don't think you should stay with him at all, but that's a decision YOU have to make.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:18 AM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Like I think, it could all be okay, if Kaitlyn came around, let Jake have quality time with his son, so Jake and I could travel abroad when there are opportunities and still have his son whenever he's home.
That is pretty much the definition of someone with poor parenting skills; I am unsure if this is your fantasy or his, but how would you feel if you had a child with this man and he left you in that depressing town to do the boring, repetitive grind of daily parenting with little support while he flitted about having a carefree life and picking up your child like a sometimes favourite/sometimes forgotten toy whenever HE felt like it? Based on his actions and current choices, there is no consideration of the child's needs in the past or in the future. That poor, poor child.
posted by saucysault at 6:55 AM on October 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
That is pretty much the definition of someone with poor parenting skills; I am unsure if this is your fantasy or his, but how would you feel if you had a child with this man and he left you in that depressing town to do the boring, repetitive grind of daily parenting with little support while he flitted about having a carefree life and picking up your child like a sometimes favourite/sometimes forgotten toy whenever HE felt like it? Based on his actions and current choices, there is no consideration of the child's needs in the past or in the future. That poor, poor child.
posted by saucysault at 6:55 AM on October 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
You are both very young. You both have your own problems to sort out. You have lots of opportunities that will go a long way to helping you sort out your problems.
"There are plenty of fish in the sea" may be a cliché, but a lot of clichés didn't become clichés for no reason. Take one of those amazing job opportunities. Throw yourself into your work, get your debt paid down, make some good friends, and be open to new romances when you're ready for them. But make what you do next about your needs. You have so many wonderful years ahead of you.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:57 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
"There are plenty of fish in the sea" may be a cliché, but a lot of clichés didn't become clichés for no reason. Take one of those amazing job opportunities. Throw yourself into your work, get your debt paid down, make some good friends, and be open to new romances when you're ready for them. But make what you do next about your needs. You have so many wonderful years ahead of you.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:57 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: saucysalt: It's not like that though, she doesn't want him to ever have his son living with him, otherwise we would provide. If he ever wants residential contact rights he will have to fight her every step of the way. I probably shouldn't have said I think he's a bad parent. He's not perfect, but he's very young and he does care so much for his son, his son is his first priority. He does support him, he has a bank account with savings for him and he tries to do everything else he can.
posted by mangoprawn at 7:15 AM on October 30, 2013
posted by mangoprawn at 7:15 AM on October 30, 2013
Best answer: I started dating Jake the minute I broke up with Tim
Have you ever been both (a) sober and (b) not in a relationship since turning 18?
You need to stop hitching your wagon to other people's rides. Do your own thing; figure out how to live life, sober life, by yourself before figuring out what you want in a partner. Dependency on other people can be just as dangerous as dependency on drugs.
I suggest you try a year of no dating - commit yourself to it like you've committed to your sobriety.
I just dream of how great it would be to fix everything.
Change the things you can, accept the things you can't. The only thing you can change in this situation is your involvement in it. Get out. Do your future self a favor. Get the f&$k out, and never look back.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:17 AM on October 30, 2013 [11 favorites]
Have you ever been both (a) sober and (b) not in a relationship since turning 18?
You need to stop hitching your wagon to other people's rides. Do your own thing; figure out how to live life, sober life, by yourself before figuring out what you want in a partner. Dependency on other people can be just as dangerous as dependency on drugs.
I suggest you try a year of no dating - commit yourself to it like you've committed to your sobriety.
I just dream of how great it would be to fix everything.
Change the things you can, accept the things you can't. The only thing you can change in this situation is your involvement in it. Get out. Do your future self a favor. Get the f&$k out, and never look back.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:17 AM on October 30, 2013 [11 favorites]
Best answer: You're not ready to break up with Jake because it feels like you have a good thing going with him, one with a lot of future potential. However, the present setup is untenable for you both. The last thing you want is to marry Jake now, at just 23, with everything as uncertain as it is at the moment. He hasn't bought you a ring for a reason, he needs space to sort out his life. You need space to start your life.
So do the right thing and make that space happen: take the job you're most excited about, wherever that may be. Have a long distance relationship for the next year, visit Jake and have him visit you.
In a year from now you both will have a very different perspective on all this. Jake will hopefully have got his act together and you will have a better sense of your own job prospects, should you return. Postpone your decision about marriage until then.
posted by Dragonness at 7:22 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
So do the right thing and make that space happen: take the job you're most excited about, wherever that may be. Have a long distance relationship for the next year, visit Jake and have him visit you.
In a year from now you both will have a very different perspective on all this. Jake will hopefully have got his act together and you will have a better sense of your own job prospects, should you return. Postpone your decision about marriage until then.
posted by Dragonness at 7:22 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I agree with Dragonness - go away for a year and then revisit this question when you get back. But I would go one step further - DON'T do it as a LDR, just go.
Put an appointment on your calendar one year from the day you leave to re-ask yourself these questions about Jake. But in the meantime, just live. Date other people, go on vacations, make new friends, see what life has to offer. Let Jake take this year to get his life in order, too.
When that year rolls around again, reread this post and re-think about how you feel about Jake, and THEN make the decision whether to move back to the small town and marry Jake.
posted by CathyG at 8:17 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Put an appointment on your calendar one year from the day you leave to re-ask yourself these questions about Jake. But in the meantime, just live. Date other people, go on vacations, make new friends, see what life has to offer. Let Jake take this year to get his life in order, too.
When that year rolls around again, reread this post and re-think about how you feel about Jake, and THEN make the decision whether to move back to the small town and marry Jake.
posted by CathyG at 8:17 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I mean, if his ex got any whiff of this--that you were pushing to have a dad who had been drug addicted and unstable end up with primary custody of her child--she is going to hate you pretty much forever.
Well that's not really the plan, it's more that whatever she wants, whatever needs to be done, we can find a way to do it. She doesn't even talk to him though, we have no idea what is expected of us, there is so much uncertainty. It can't be right for Finn not to have his father in his life just because his father smoked weed and did some amphetamines for a year.
I'm trying to think about how I can improve the situation, not what I can get out of it, but I do agree with the advice that I should take at least a year away, focus on other things and just not bother with this drama, leave it to Jake to sort out.
I don't like that it sounds like Jake is the deadbeat parent when really he was given very little chances compared to Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn gets pregnant every year, it isn't a one off thing, she has problems. She lives with her parents who are extremely rich and she has no education, no drivers license, no job. Her mother takes care of Finn most of the time, which Kaitlyn even admits. Jake's mother died when he was young and he spent a lot of time in mental institutions as a child, yet he's had jobs, he has a degree and a car and all that. I think the real reason Kaitlyn doesn't want Jake to parent Finn is because she knows that then her own disinterested parenting would be obvious.
I'm not a misogynist, I understand having a child is a big deal and you're giving your body away to someone else, maybe against your will. In an ideal world I would even support there being a really, really high impregnation fine, so men would actually carry anywhere near the burden women do. But Jake really is a feminist, he understands all that, all he does is try to accommodate Kaitlyn and all she does is hate us. He just wants to be a good father to Finn, what is he supposed to do?
posted by mangoprawn at 8:44 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well that's not really the plan, it's more that whatever she wants, whatever needs to be done, we can find a way to do it. She doesn't even talk to him though, we have no idea what is expected of us, there is so much uncertainty. It can't be right for Finn not to have his father in his life just because his father smoked weed and did some amphetamines for a year.
I'm trying to think about how I can improve the situation, not what I can get out of it, but I do agree with the advice that I should take at least a year away, focus on other things and just not bother with this drama, leave it to Jake to sort out.
I don't like that it sounds like Jake is the deadbeat parent when really he was given very little chances compared to Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn gets pregnant every year, it isn't a one off thing, she has problems. She lives with her parents who are extremely rich and she has no education, no drivers license, no job. Her mother takes care of Finn most of the time, which Kaitlyn even admits. Jake's mother died when he was young and he spent a lot of time in mental institutions as a child, yet he's had jobs, he has a degree and a car and all that. I think the real reason Kaitlyn doesn't want Jake to parent Finn is because she knows that then her own disinterested parenting would be obvious.
I'm not a misogynist, I understand having a child is a big deal and you're giving your body away to someone else, maybe against your will. In an ideal world I would even support there being a really, really high impregnation fine, so men would actually carry anywhere near the burden women do. But Jake really is a feminist, he understands all that, all he does is try to accommodate Kaitlyn and all she does is hate us. He just wants to be a good father to Finn, what is he supposed to do?
posted by mangoprawn at 8:44 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
What is Jake supposed to do? He should stabilize his life, prove that he can hold a responsible job, respect the current visitation schedule to the letter. In time, he should see if Kaitlyn would be willing to talk to a mediator about increasing visitation. If Kaitlyn doesn't soften up, then he should pursue this in court.
posted by Dragonness at 9:18 AM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Dragonness at 9:18 AM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Like I think, it could all be okay, if Kaitlyn came around, let Jake have quality time with his son, so Jake and I could travel abroad when there are opportunities and still have his son whenever he's home. We have an extra room to accommodate Finn already and I've always been really good with other people's children.
Perhaps some parents can weigh in on this, but it really sounds like you are hoping that you and Jake can be parents to this child when it's convenient for you. Expecting that a child can come stay with you whenever you get home from traveling around doesn't sound like a stable environment for a small child.
Finn's mother not allowing her son to stay overnight at Jake's when he has been known to abuse drugs, when he is living with people she has never met, is an absolutely rational decision. It sounds like there are four people living in your house, and the only one that Kaitlyn knows is Jake, who has a history of drug addiction and hospitalization for mental illness.
Just get out of this situation. Go. Please put your mental health first, because it really sounds like you are suffering greatly in the situation you are in.
posted by inertia at 9:19 AM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
Perhaps some parents can weigh in on this, but it really sounds like you are hoping that you and Jake can be parents to this child when it's convenient for you. Expecting that a child can come stay with you whenever you get home from traveling around doesn't sound like a stable environment for a small child.
Finn's mother not allowing her son to stay overnight at Jake's when he has been known to abuse drugs, when he is living with people she has never met, is an absolutely rational decision. It sounds like there are four people living in your house, and the only one that Kaitlyn knows is Jake, who has a history of drug addiction and hospitalization for mental illness.
Just get out of this situation. Go. Please put your mental health first, because it really sounds like you are suffering greatly in the situation you are in.
posted by inertia at 9:19 AM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Then also, now that I'm thinking of moving away for a while, I don't even know where to start. Every scenario comes with its own challenges and I find it quite hard to live in the moment and I don't like being single. I've spent my whole life travelling around, and now I'm completely aimless, I'd like to find a place where I can just exist and establish myself.
posted by mangoprawn at 9:20 AM on October 30, 2013
posted by mangoprawn at 9:20 AM on October 30, 2013
I mention it because I suspect you are also being enticed by job offers that may not be as serious or as livable as they're presented. I realize this is a lot of assumption, but from your posting history, I worry you may be splitting your current situation into the clearest black and white possible, in order to make the decision easier.
On the other hand, I don't know what things are like in the UK, but in my American experience, usually entry level post-college jobs are not compensated well enough to support two people.
My first job out of school paid enough to get by on, which, at 24, was all I really expected. Hell, from the perspective of someone used to part time retail work, it seemed absolutely luxurious. But it paid enough for me. I absolutely couldn't have supported a partner.
The location independent angle also seems interesting to me -- I wonder if the entire financial situation wouldn't be easier supporting only mangoprawn, and supporting her in Vietnam or Bali or something, rather than needing to stretch to support two people in an expensive place.
posted by Sara C. at 9:21 AM on October 30, 2013
On the other hand, I don't know what things are like in the UK, but in my American experience, usually entry level post-college jobs are not compensated well enough to support two people.
My first job out of school paid enough to get by on, which, at 24, was all I really expected. Hell, from the perspective of someone used to part time retail work, it seemed absolutely luxurious. But it paid enough for me. I absolutely couldn't have supported a partner.
The location independent angle also seems interesting to me -- I wonder if the entire financial situation wouldn't be easier supporting only mangoprawn, and supporting her in Vietnam or Bali or something, rather than needing to stretch to support two people in an expensive place.
posted by Sara C. at 9:21 AM on October 30, 2013
Best answer: Drama is addictive and fascinating but it's also a distraction. In this case you are so focused on Jake and his self-made problems that you are devaluing their impact on your physical, emotional, and professional health.
posted by spunweb at 9:22 AM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by spunweb at 9:22 AM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
Continuing to threadsit with explanations tells us you just can't let go.
That suggests there's some sort of huge payoff for you in continuing to be part of all the drama.
Don't you think maybe that would be worth sorting out with a counselor?
posted by John Borrowman at 9:25 AM on October 30, 2013 [10 favorites]
That suggests there's some sort of huge payoff for you in continuing to be part of all the drama.
Don't you think maybe that would be worth sorting out with a counselor?
posted by John Borrowman at 9:25 AM on October 30, 2013 [10 favorites]
I do have sympathy for Jake; he sounds like he's in a tough situation. But it sounds like a situation he really needs to sort out for himself just as much as yours does.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:32 AM on October 30, 2013
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:32 AM on October 30, 2013
This guy is on his way up, and he's very dedicated to me.
You've said a lot of things like this, both in your original question and in your replies.
The thing is, being "on the way up" and having potential and improving gradually and all the coulds and next years in the world aren't good enough anymore once you're out of school.
You need to live NOW. Not looking at what your boyfriend could do or what his potential is. Not looking forward at how great it's going to be if X, Y, and Z happens. (Especially if those variables are out of your control, and seriously, ALL of these variables are out of your control right now.)
The question isn't whether Jake is a good person or whether he loves you or whether he has what it takes to support himself and get right with his ex and his kid.
The question is where he is right now. Which is in a place that you don't want to be.
You have to decide right now whether you're willing to live with who he is right now. Because all the tomorrows in the world aren't going to solve your depression or your financial problems.
You're with someone who is asking you to do an awful lot of waiting. Are you willing to wait? And more importantly, are you willing to wait with the knowledge that it's entirely possible that none of Jake's dreams will work out? Because potential/future/could is a double edged sword.
I'm 32. I spent most of my 20's sowing my wild oats and faffing around and not really amounting to anything. I had lots of potential. There was always a plan that involved some nebulous future occurrence where I was magically going to be a successful grownup. There's nothing wrong with that type of existence, but it's a damn good thing nobody hung their future on my potential. Ultimately I turned out just fine, and I don't think anything catastrophic is going to happen to Jake. But a whole lot of people broke up with me in my directionless "someday" twenties, and for good reason.
posted by Sara C. at 9:41 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
You've said a lot of things like this, both in your original question and in your replies.
The thing is, being "on the way up" and having potential and improving gradually and all the coulds and next years in the world aren't good enough anymore once you're out of school.
You need to live NOW. Not looking at what your boyfriend could do or what his potential is. Not looking forward at how great it's going to be if X, Y, and Z happens. (Especially if those variables are out of your control, and seriously, ALL of these variables are out of your control right now.)
The question isn't whether Jake is a good person or whether he loves you or whether he has what it takes to support himself and get right with his ex and his kid.
The question is where he is right now. Which is in a place that you don't want to be.
You have to decide right now whether you're willing to live with who he is right now. Because all the tomorrows in the world aren't going to solve your depression or your financial problems.
You're with someone who is asking you to do an awful lot of waiting. Are you willing to wait? And more importantly, are you willing to wait with the knowledge that it's entirely possible that none of Jake's dreams will work out? Because potential/future/could is a double edged sword.
I'm 32. I spent most of my 20's sowing my wild oats and faffing around and not really amounting to anything. I had lots of potential. There was always a plan that involved some nebulous future occurrence where I was magically going to be a successful grownup. There's nothing wrong with that type of existence, but it's a damn good thing nobody hung their future on my potential. Ultimately I turned out just fine, and I don't think anything catastrophic is going to happen to Jake. But a whole lot of people broke up with me in my directionless "someday" twenties, and for good reason.
posted by Sara C. at 9:41 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Choose the path that allows you to be the star of your own life. I think you know which one that is.
posted by spindrifter at 9:50 AM on October 30, 2013
posted by spindrifter at 9:50 AM on October 30, 2013
Best answer: he needs to move somewhere bigger than this town to actually get gigs and a good network.
Half a year ago I was excited about building a life with Jake. I was excited about meeting Finn. I was enthusiastic about helping Jake find his way, and improving both of our lives, making us respectable and getting Finn to move in with us in the end.
I've had job offers from all over the world! Accra, Las Vegas, Berlin... and I've turned them down. Out of love... am I crazy? I'm starting to think so. Jake will never make any money here, the UK is going down the drain, life here will just continue to become more and more grim.
He started his music career a year ago, now he has offers from several record labels, and he gets job offers from all around the world too actually, good ones, as a music teacher, resident DJ, record deals etc. he just can't take them up while Kaitlyn is being so difficult about letting him see his son.
Like I think, it could all be okay, if Kaitlyn came around, let Jake have quality time with his son, so Jake and I could travel abroad when there are opportunities and still have his son whenever he's home. We have an extra room to accommodate Finn already and I've always been really good with other people's children.
And some more technicalities: I have dual US and EU citizenship so visas aren't a problem for a lot of places, neither would they be for Jake, if we got married. My job would be well paid if I wasn't so distracted and depressed all the time
You have invested a lot of energy in an idealized version of this relationship, one that is very unlikely to happen and would take years to achieve. I notice that you haven't really mentioned whether Jake would want to move, or eventually push for residential custody, etc. Do you actually know if that's something he wants?
I think, that if you stay, you have to accept that things are, at best, going to get incrementally better, and may never get to the point that you would envision in mangoprawn's perfect world. Don't focus on "if Kaitlyn would stop fighting about Finn's custody, and we got matching jobs abroad, then we wouldn't worry about money any more and we could have exciting and fun lives and Kaitlyn and Jake would grow the fuck up and become great parents and Finn could stay with us whenever we were local" because those are (a) some pretty big ifs and (b) some pretty big thens (in that even if everything in (a) came true, you would have no guarantee that (b)). The only way you could be happy in this situation is to break it into smaller bits of improvement, and be ready to deal with the fact that you may never get to your ideal situation. Like, "if Jake could get even a small amount of court-reinforced visitation time, then he'd have an opportunity demonstrate to the courts and to Kaitlyn that he can be a responsible parent, and move towards more time" (as has already happened!), or "if Jake could get some temporary local work (the holidays are coming up, and even small towns have bars and schools and churches that need people to run sound), then I'd be able to pay off my debt a little faster and be a little less stressed out", or "if we could move to $NEARBYCITY, then we'd still be only an hour away for visitation, and have better job prospects", etc. But! It's also okay to say "none of those incremental changes are going to be satisfying to me" and to leave.
I worry, though, that this is also coloring your perspective (particularly in the bolded sections) of how bad the current situation is (I mean it is bad, for reasons that people have thoroughly outlined, but those reasons do not include "because if you stay in the UK your whole lives will get sucked under by the poor economy"), and how great leaving will be. I think it's good that you're really considering the "get away and work for a year" idea, but don't despair if that doesn't instantly fix things--there's also challenges there, and you will still feel, at times, sad and confused and like you made the wrong decision.
posted by kagredon at 9:58 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Half a year ago I was excited about building a life with Jake. I was excited about meeting Finn. I was enthusiastic about helping Jake find his way, and improving both of our lives, making us respectable and getting Finn to move in with us in the end.
I've had job offers from all over the world! Accra, Las Vegas, Berlin... and I've turned them down. Out of love... am I crazy? I'm starting to think so. Jake will never make any money here, the UK is going down the drain, life here will just continue to become more and more grim.
He started his music career a year ago, now he has offers from several record labels, and he gets job offers from all around the world too actually, good ones, as a music teacher, resident DJ, record deals etc. he just can't take them up while Kaitlyn is being so difficult about letting him see his son.
Like I think, it could all be okay, if Kaitlyn came around, let Jake have quality time with his son, so Jake and I could travel abroad when there are opportunities and still have his son whenever he's home. We have an extra room to accommodate Finn already and I've always been really good with other people's children.
And some more technicalities: I have dual US and EU citizenship so visas aren't a problem for a lot of places, neither would they be for Jake, if we got married. My job would be well paid if I wasn't so distracted and depressed all the time
You have invested a lot of energy in an idealized version of this relationship, one that is very unlikely to happen and would take years to achieve. I notice that you haven't really mentioned whether Jake would want to move, or eventually push for residential custody, etc. Do you actually know if that's something he wants?
I think, that if you stay, you have to accept that things are, at best, going to get incrementally better, and may never get to the point that you would envision in mangoprawn's perfect world. Don't focus on "if Kaitlyn would stop fighting about Finn's custody, and we got matching jobs abroad, then we wouldn't worry about money any more and we could have exciting and fun lives and Kaitlyn and Jake would grow the fuck up and become great parents and Finn could stay with us whenever we were local" because those are (a) some pretty big ifs and (b) some pretty big thens (in that even if everything in (a) came true, you would have no guarantee that (b)). The only way you could be happy in this situation is to break it into smaller bits of improvement, and be ready to deal with the fact that you may never get to your ideal situation. Like, "if Jake could get even a small amount of court-reinforced visitation time, then he'd have an opportunity demonstrate to the courts and to Kaitlyn that he can be a responsible parent, and move towards more time" (as has already happened!), or "if Jake could get some temporary local work (the holidays are coming up, and even small towns have bars and schools and churches that need people to run sound), then I'd be able to pay off my debt a little faster and be a little less stressed out", or "if we could move to $NEARBYCITY, then we'd still be only an hour away for visitation, and have better job prospects", etc. But! It's also okay to say "none of those incremental changes are going to be satisfying to me" and to leave.
I worry, though, that this is also coloring your perspective (particularly in the bolded sections) of how bad the current situation is (I mean it is bad, for reasons that people have thoroughly outlined, but those reasons do not include "because if you stay in the UK your whole lives will get sucked under by the poor economy"), and how great leaving will be. I think it's good that you're really considering the "get away and work for a year" idea, but don't despair if that doesn't instantly fix things--there's also challenges there, and you will still feel, at times, sad and confused and like you made the wrong decision.
posted by kagredon at 9:58 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh my G*d. There is so much nonsensical drama here.
Run like hell and here's why: 3 years ago, I was a 46-year old version of you, to the extent that I had a boyfriend who I loved dearly. This boyfriend had custody of his ragingly dysfunctional 10-year-old daughter and ongoing communication issues with the mom of his kid (who was an alcoholic, who was insane, who was irresponsible....whatever...she was the focus of his life).
Allow me to get straight to the point: my life would have become an absolute shitshow if I had stayed with him, and with the advice of people here, I ended it and have moved on and I'm engaged to someone else who I love even more and with whom I have a wonderful, dramaless life.
You don't see it right now and that's okay. But I can tell you, having lived through this, that this situation with your BF and the kid and the ex will never get better for you. Your life will become all about this kid and the troubles and how messed up the mom is and OMG my pulse is racing thinking how much this sucks for you. There's so much crazy going on and you're so sucked into it and I don't think you see it.
Just end it with this guy. Stop getting involved with and justifying their drug use and drinking and stalking and insanity.
There are so many wonderful and healthy people in the world. Give them a chance.
posted by kinetic at 10:14 AM on October 30, 2013 [10 favorites]
Run like hell and here's why: 3 years ago, I was a 46-year old version of you, to the extent that I had a boyfriend who I loved dearly. This boyfriend had custody of his ragingly dysfunctional 10-year-old daughter and ongoing communication issues with the mom of his kid (who was an alcoholic, who was insane, who was irresponsible....whatever...she was the focus of his life).
Allow me to get straight to the point: my life would have become an absolute shitshow if I had stayed with him, and with the advice of people here, I ended it and have moved on and I'm engaged to someone else who I love even more and with whom I have a wonderful, dramaless life.
You don't see it right now and that's okay. But I can tell you, having lived through this, that this situation with your BF and the kid and the ex will never get better for you. Your life will become all about this kid and the troubles and how messed up the mom is and OMG my pulse is racing thinking how much this sucks for you. There's so much crazy going on and you're so sucked into it and I don't think you see it.
Just end it with this guy. Stop getting involved with and justifying their drug use and drinking and stalking and insanity.
There are so many wonderful and healthy people in the world. Give them a chance.
posted by kinetic at 10:14 AM on October 30, 2013 [10 favorites]
Best answer: Re: your move. I know this isn't your first move, but this is still a good link.
The first thing I personally would do is go over your old emails and reach out to some of the jobs you've declined. Pick a place and go.
It'll take you a while to get settled, but the biggest thing for you to do will be to resist making Jake your long distance focus. You sound like he's been the main focus of your life; if you want this to be a successful experiment, you're going to need to fake it til you make it, really focus on yourself, and try to challenge yourself to do something outside the house/not on the phone w Jake until you guys have some appropriate emotional boundaries.
I'm saying that because you guys sound wicked intertwined, and that's got to be incredibly draining.
posted by spunweb at 11:29 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
The first thing I personally would do is go over your old emails and reach out to some of the jobs you've declined. Pick a place and go.
It'll take you a while to get settled, but the biggest thing for you to do will be to resist making Jake your long distance focus. You sound like he's been the main focus of your life; if you want this to be a successful experiment, you're going to need to fake it til you make it, really focus on yourself, and try to challenge yourself to do something outside the house/not on the phone w Jake until you guys have some appropriate emotional boundaries.
I'm saying that because you guys sound wicked intertwined, and that's got to be incredibly draining.
posted by spunweb at 11:29 AM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Okay so thank you again, I'm taking all the advice into account now and trying to make a workable plan for what I'm going to do about this situation.
I think I'll start by going back to my home town in Germany, I've spoken to my Dad and he's happy to let me stay there for a month or two. Then I'll spend another month or two travelling around Europe (if it's affordable) to see old friends and maybe visit some new places. Then in Spring I'll come back to here and reassess the situation. If by then some new opportunity to get away has cropped up or I am enjoying doing my own thing, I'll see about leaving things here behind. If the situation is better, I'll give this path another chance.
My gut tells me I really want to move outside of Europe eventually, but I just wouldn't know where to start, and flights are too expensive to just shop around. Maybe I can try to have some of both worlds for a few months. Jake and I started as a LDR and we're really good at doing that, we're both very independent and not jealous or anything.
I'll talk to him about it tonight, I think he'll be a little sad but he'll completely understand and support me. We have a friend who may want to move in while I'm gone too, so that might work.
posted by mangoprawn at 11:34 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think I'll start by going back to my home town in Germany, I've spoken to my Dad and he's happy to let me stay there for a month or two. Then I'll spend another month or two travelling around Europe (if it's affordable) to see old friends and maybe visit some new places. Then in Spring I'll come back to here and reassess the situation. If by then some new opportunity to get away has cropped up or I am enjoying doing my own thing, I'll see about leaving things here behind. If the situation is better, I'll give this path another chance.
My gut tells me I really want to move outside of Europe eventually, but I just wouldn't know where to start, and flights are too expensive to just shop around. Maybe I can try to have some of both worlds for a few months. Jake and I started as a LDR and we're really good at doing that, we're both very independent and not jealous or anything.
I'll talk to him about it tonight, I think he'll be a little sad but he'll completely understand and support me. We have a friend who may want to move in while I'm gone too, so that might work.
posted by mangoprawn at 11:34 AM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'll talk to him about it tonight, I think he'll be a little sad but he'll completely understand and support me.
...and even if he doesn't, remember that this isn't about his feelings, okay? You have every right to remove yourself from this situation, even if (especially if?) he doesn't support you.
posted by kinetic at 12:14 PM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
...and even if he doesn't, remember that this isn't about his feelings, okay? You have every right to remove yourself from this situation, even if (especially if?) he doesn't support you.
posted by kinetic at 12:14 PM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
> is asking for me to come out to pick some candy to send his son for Halloween
Halloween is tomorrow. The candy is going to be late, unless he's having it delivered by courier? Does that happen? And if he is having it delivered, is that a good use of your money?
You're taking this as a sign that he's a great dad, I'm seeing it as a sign he's a flake.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on October 30, 2013 [7 favorites]
Halloween is tomorrow. The candy is going to be late, unless he's having it delivered by courier? Does that happen? And if he is having it delivered, is that a good use of your money?
You're taking this as a sign that he's a great dad, I'm seeing it as a sign he's a flake.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on October 30, 2013 [7 favorites]
Break up with him before you go to Germany. If you do decide to get back together when you're done with your travels you can, but there's no reason to stay attached now. I'm certain that once you get out of that dreary situation you'll wonder what the hell took you so long.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:09 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:09 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
You say you've spent your whole life wandering around and feeling aimless, so your solution is to what? Wander around for a few more months then come back to Jake in the spring? Yeah. Let's be honest: will that actually solve anything, or just put it all on hold?
Move out of there. Moving back with your dad sounds good; find a job there --- NOT 'keep on traveling around aimlessly'! --- and settle down. Get a place by yourself. Swear off all dating whatsoever for a while, and learn how to depend on yourself and no-one else. Heck, I'd also recommend cutting off all contact with Jake entirely for at least a year, but you won't do that, will you? Okay, let's split the differnece: no contact with Jake for six months from the day you move out. No LDR, no calls or texts or emails: no contact.
Meanwhile, Kaitlyn and Finn: if Kaitlyn is in fact angry about you, to be honest, from all you've written here, I could totally understand why. You want her to just merrily hand her kid over to you whenever it's convienent *for you*, and you don't see why that might be a problem. Finn is her son, not yours, and you really really need to face up to that: you do not have now nor will you ever have any moral, legal or parental control over the kid. He is not your son, he is Kaitlyn's son, and she is (your opinions notwithstanding) doing her best to be his parent. Making comments like her being a bad mother or a drug addict or whatever are not helping: all you are doing is ensuring that she will never like you or want her son around you. And that's her choice, because Finn is her son, not yours.
posted by easily confused at 2:30 PM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
Move out of there. Moving back with your dad sounds good; find a job there --- NOT 'keep on traveling around aimlessly'! --- and settle down. Get a place by yourself. Swear off all dating whatsoever for a while, and learn how to depend on yourself and no-one else. Heck, I'd also recommend cutting off all contact with Jake entirely for at least a year, but you won't do that, will you? Okay, let's split the differnece: no contact with Jake for six months from the day you move out. No LDR, no calls or texts or emails: no contact.
Meanwhile, Kaitlyn and Finn: if Kaitlyn is in fact angry about you, to be honest, from all you've written here, I could totally understand why. You want her to just merrily hand her kid over to you whenever it's convienent *for you*, and you don't see why that might be a problem. Finn is her son, not yours, and you really really need to face up to that: you do not have now nor will you ever have any moral, legal or parental control over the kid. He is not your son, he is Kaitlyn's son, and she is (your opinions notwithstanding) doing her best to be his parent. Making comments like her being a bad mother or a drug addict or whatever are not helping: all you are doing is ensuring that she will never like you or want her son around you. And that's her choice, because Finn is her son, not yours.
posted by easily confused at 2:30 PM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
Mod note: OP this thread is not for an ongoing discussion about these issues. Please don't threadsit.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:16 PM on October 30, 2013
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:16 PM on October 30, 2013
Best answer: These are the links I meant to post:
http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html
http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/signs-of-a-codependent-relationship
I'm not saying your relationship is codependent but I am saying that the level of investment you have in someone else's child and the amount of anger you have towards Kaitlayn is disproportionate to your role in their lives and their roles in yours.
I'm also linking you to the drama triangle and its evolutions.
http://karpmandramatriangle.com/pdf/thenewdramatriangles.pdf
The basic idea is that there are three roles:
Rescuer ------------Persecutor
-----------Victim
And that in a codependent relationship you and your partner swap between these three roles -- you're the rescuer right now, because you just want to help Jake, but the bewilderment is also a kind of reward and an opportunity switchover to the victim role, w. Jake as the persecutor. I'm not saying he's being mean to you or anything like that, but just that right now the overarching narrative surrounding your relationship (where there're external forces persecuting Jake, only you can help him and understand him, and he won't/can't let you help to your full capabilities because of other external circumstances) is both unhealthy and inaccurate.
posted by spunweb at 5:47 PM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html
http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/signs-of-a-codependent-relationship
I'm not saying your relationship is codependent but I am saying that the level of investment you have in someone else's child and the amount of anger you have towards Kaitlayn is disproportionate to your role in their lives and their roles in yours.
I'm also linking you to the drama triangle and its evolutions.
http://karpmandramatriangle.com/pdf/thenewdramatriangles.pdf
The basic idea is that there are three roles:
Rescuer ------------Persecutor
-----------Victim
And that in a codependent relationship you and your partner swap between these three roles -- you're the rescuer right now, because you just want to help Jake, but the bewilderment is also a kind of reward and an opportunity switchover to the victim role, w. Jake as the persecutor. I'm not saying he's being mean to you or anything like that, but just that right now the overarching narrative surrounding your relationship (where there're external forces persecuting Jake, only you can help him and understand him, and he won't/can't let you help to your full capabilities because of other external circumstances) is both unhealthy and inaccurate.
posted by spunweb at 5:47 PM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
Kaitlin being a worse parent than Jake does not make Jake a good parent.
posted by WeekendJen at 10:23 AM on October 31, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 10:23 AM on October 31, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm taking all the advice into account now and trying to make a workable plan for what I'm going to do about this situation.
I'm going to second those who are suggesting that 'wandering aimlessly for a few months and hoping things somehow magically improve by spring' does not constitute a workable plan.
Earlier you said "I've spent my whole life travelling around, and now I'm completely aimless, I'd like to find a place where I can just exist and establish myself.". So do that. Take responsibility for your own happiness, stop putting it off on other people. Especially people as palpably screwed up as Jake.
posted by ook at 10:34 AM on October 31, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm going to second those who are suggesting that 'wandering aimlessly for a few months and hoping things somehow magically improve by spring' does not constitute a workable plan.
Earlier you said "I've spent my whole life travelling around, and now I'm completely aimless, I'd like to find a place where I can just exist and establish myself.". So do that. Take responsibility for your own happiness, stop putting it off on other people. Especially people as palpably screwed up as Jake.
posted by ook at 10:34 AM on October 31, 2013 [3 favorites]
I don't like being single
That's not a good reason to stay in a relationship.
posted by yohko at 2:38 PM on October 31, 2013 [5 favorites]
That's not a good reason to stay in a relationship.
posted by yohko at 2:38 PM on October 31, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: If you decide to end things with jake then do end it rather than taking a year break. The situation is so complicated that a year probably won't change much and you'll just be putting your life on hold during that time. I think if you two find your way back to each other some day it will be after completely letting him go and moving on. What I was referring to before isn't breaking up with any intention of trying again later but knowing that if it is meant to be it really will just happen. I do believe in that sort of destiny or fate. A clean break will allow you to move and settle down somewhere and reestablish your life doing what you really want to do. I do think moving somewhere and putting down some roots would be a lot more helpful for you than wandering. I hope you Give yourself a chance to be true to what you really want rather than continuing to put your life on hold for jake.
posted by wildflower at 12:38 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by wildflower at 12:38 AM on November 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
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You're definitely done.
Leave and don't look back.
posted by kagredon at 5:57 PM on October 29, 2013 [40 favorites]