Ethical Offsetting
October 9, 2013 8:23 AM Subscribe
I would very much like to see the film Enders Game.
I liked the book and I expect it would make an excellent movie.
However I find Orson Scott Card's views abhorrent. I'm aware that he already got paid for the rights and so boycotting the film would do nothing.
Is there a US pro gay rights charity (or any other charity in direct contravention to Mr Card's views) that I can donate to?
This is basically carbon offsetting, but for ethics.
In addition, they are fairly highly rated by CharityNavigator, so your donations would presumably be well used.
posted by jeffjon at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2013
posted by jeffjon at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2013
I would not give HRC a dime, as they are incredibly ineffective.
One suggestion would be The Trevor Project: a suicide prevention group for LGBTQ youth.
posted by munchingzombie at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2013 [14 favorites]
One suggestion would be The Trevor Project: a suicide prevention group for LGBTQ youth.
posted by munchingzombie at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2013 [14 favorites]
I'm aware that he already got paid for the rights and so boycotting the film would do nothing.
I wouldn't feel safe assuming that; it's entirely possible that his deal gives him some share of sales.
There's also the option of just watching the movie without paying for it, either by downloading it or by buying a ticket to some other movie at the same time but walking into the Ender's Game theater. This will hurt other people besides Card, so it's a different ethical tradeoff.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2013 [9 favorites]
I wouldn't feel safe assuming that; it's entirely possible that his deal gives him some share of sales.
There's also the option of just watching the movie without paying for it, either by downloading it or by buying a ticket to some other movie at the same time but walking into the Ender's Game theater. This will hurt other people besides Card, so it's a different ethical tradeoff.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2013 [9 favorites]
He is actually credited as a producer on the movie, so he will also get paid more depending on how much it makes. A boycott may be worth something after all.
That said, the HRC (however, they've had some questionable responses to immigration and trans* rights) is probably your best bet for something easy and national/worldwide.
If you're looking for more local, there is probably an Equality (your state here) - CA's is http://www.eqca.org/site/pp.asp?c=kuLRJ9MRKrH&b=5609559, for example.
posted by FritoKAL at 8:31 AM on October 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
That said, the HRC (however, they've had some questionable responses to immigration and trans* rights) is probably your best bet for something easy and national/worldwide.
If you're looking for more local, there is probably an Equality (your state here) - CA's is http://www.eqca.org/site/pp.asp?c=kuLRJ9MRKrH&b=5609559, for example.
posted by FritoKAL at 8:31 AM on October 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would not give HRC a dime, as they are incredibly ineffective.
As someone who works in the nonprofit advocacy field, this has not been my impression. However, there are a lot of good LGBT groups out there - another one is Freedom to Marry, the group that leads the marriage equality coalition and had a huge hand in last year's sweep of marriage equality votes, as described in this (great) article.
posted by lunasol at 8:34 AM on October 9, 2013
As someone who works in the nonprofit advocacy field, this has not been my impression. However, there are a lot of good LGBT groups out there - another one is Freedom to Marry, the group that leads the marriage equality coalition and had a huge hand in last year's sweep of marriage equality votes, as described in this (great) article.
posted by lunasol at 8:34 AM on October 9, 2013
The National Center for Lesbian Rights is an alternative to the HRC who does work at the national level and don't fall down as hard on certain issues as the HRC.
posted by hoyland at 8:35 AM on October 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 8:35 AM on October 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
ThinkProgress had a post on this very subject that discussed some alternatives: An Ethical Guide To Consuming Content Created By Awful People Like Orson Scott Card.
posted by zamboni at 8:36 AM on October 9, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 8:36 AM on October 9, 2013 [8 favorites]
This AskMe gives you some options. (You appear to be in the UK, so the general advice that your money will do more going to your local organisation instead of the HRC doesn't apply.)
posted by hoyland at 8:39 AM on October 9, 2013
posted by hoyland at 8:39 AM on October 9, 2013
Response by poster: To clarify, yes I am in the UK.
Part of the reason for the question is that I would like to donate to something specifically opposing Card, but I don't really know the state of US proLGBTQ charities.
Possibly even a charity in North Carolina (I think that is where he lives) would be most preferable? (maybe it wouldn't)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:44 AM on October 9, 2013
Part of the reason for the question is that I would like to donate to something specifically opposing Card, but I don't really know the state of US proLGBTQ charities.
Possibly even a charity in North Carolina (I think that is where he lives) would be most preferable? (maybe it wouldn't)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:44 AM on October 9, 2013
I would recommend Lambada Legal, but I think that is an odd intuition. Even if he has been paid upfront, the success of this movie will determine what other movies will be made from his works, and how much he will be paid for them.
posted by Garm at 8:48 AM on October 9, 2013
posted by Garm at 8:48 AM on October 9, 2013
If you live in a city there's probably an organization that serves queer, homeless youth. A disproportionate percentage of homeless youth are queer; queer youth are far more likely to get kicked out of their homes, experience violence (including sexual violence), and be forced to live in dangerous situations - because of the effects of the attitudes like OSC's. So, I would say that supporting organizations that provide services to queer youth is a good ethical offset - better than marriage-related campaigns.
posted by entropone at 8:54 AM on October 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by entropone at 8:54 AM on October 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
Seriously, just buy a ticket to a different movie and sneak in. I did it for the Last Airbender movie (gave my dollars to Despicable Me) and never looked back.
posted by nonasuch at 8:56 AM on October 9, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by nonasuch at 8:56 AM on October 9, 2013 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I'd say just buy a ticket to a different movie. Go after it's been out for two or three weeks (don't wait much longer than that because it probably won't be out very long). Go to a weekday matinee if you can - the kids taking tickets will generally not give a shit under any circumstances, but on a weekday morning, they will give even less of a shit. Pick a movie with a start time near Ender's Game by approximately fifteen minutes or so. Buy a ticket at one of those automated kiosks so as to reduce the amount of time you need to spend interacting with a person. Go in. Enjoy.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:08 AM on October 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:08 AM on October 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
The Albert Kennedy Trust are near you and do good work.
posted by emilyw at 9:19 AM on October 9, 2013
posted by emilyw at 9:19 AM on October 9, 2013
boycotting the film would do nothing
If your goal is just _punishing_ Orson Scott Card for his beliefs, then maybe so, but I think it would affect him a lot if people didn't go to the movie of his most famous book.
Writers and others who create don't just work for money, they work for recognition, affection, and a feeling of contributing to the world. If you take that away, it has a deep effect.
If your goal is to help change the dominant culture of our world, then boycotting something like this could have a huge effect. It will change the perceived norm, it will be big news even in small towns, and young people will get a powerful message that the choices they make, even in what movie tickets to buy, can make a difference in how people think and feel -- because they will notice that this phenomenon changes how they feel about some things.
What you can do if you really want to see the movie is wait until it's downloadable, then plan a home viewing party with all your friends. A whole bunch of people can see the movie for $3.99.
You won't have to worry about spoilers because you've already read the book :)
posted by amtho at 9:20 AM on October 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
If your goal is just _punishing_ Orson Scott Card for his beliefs, then maybe so, but I think it would affect him a lot if people didn't go to the movie of his most famous book.
Writers and others who create don't just work for money, they work for recognition, affection, and a feeling of contributing to the world. If you take that away, it has a deep effect.
If your goal is to help change the dominant culture of our world, then boycotting something like this could have a huge effect. It will change the perceived norm, it will be big news even in small towns, and young people will get a powerful message that the choices they make, even in what movie tickets to buy, can make a difference in how people think and feel -- because they will notice that this phenomenon changes how they feel about some things.
What you can do if you really want to see the movie is wait until it's downloadable, then plan a home viewing party with all your friends. A whole bunch of people can see the movie for $3.99.
You won't have to worry about spoilers because you've already read the book :)
posted by amtho at 9:20 AM on October 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think your assumption that the movie will be worthy of the book may be wildly optimistic. The one trailer I've seen did nothing to make me want to see the movie. So not seeing the movie is a very viable option.
posted by COD at 9:25 AM on October 9, 2013
posted by COD at 9:25 AM on October 9, 2013
Everything else aside, I personally like giving to Lambda Legal.
posted by naoko at 9:35 AM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by naoko at 9:35 AM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
That ThinkProgress article is very good, especially for this:
"I’m entirely sympathetic to people who don’t want to see Ender’s Game, whether in theaters, as a rental, or streaming. But if that’s what you want, stay home for real. Don’t pirate it. Don’t let someone else rent it for you. And talk about why. Be really clear that Card’s involvement with a project is enough to make you deny yourself something that you want, that you otherwise would have been excited about, and that his involvement outweighs any other factors that might have pulled you to see the movie."
posted by DWRoelands at 9:36 AM on October 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
"I’m entirely sympathetic to people who don’t want to see Ender’s Game, whether in theaters, as a rental, or streaming. But if that’s what you want, stay home for real. Don’t pirate it. Don’t let someone else rent it for you. And talk about why. Be really clear that Card’s involvement with a project is enough to make you deny yourself something that you want, that you otherwise would have been excited about, and that his involvement outweighs any other factors that might have pulled you to see the movie."
posted by DWRoelands at 9:36 AM on October 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
I have decided I cannot in good conscience pay to veiw the film. Not only is it likely that Mr Card receives some kind of percentage of the gross revenues for the movie, but a successful Ender's Game significantly increases the odds that he will be paid millions more to convert his other books into films.
posted by Lame_username at 9:38 AM on October 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Lame_username at 9:38 AM on October 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
Just wait until the DVD/Bluray comes out and buy it used from someone. Card won't get any money (from you), and I don't think you'd really be party to the movie's potential success. Sure you'll be taking a little from the studios, but buying used items like this isn't a huge ethical problem for me. You can donate any difference from buying movie tickets to whatever charity, and having to wait can be part of your penance.
posted by sevenless at 10:02 AM on October 9, 2013
posted by sevenless at 10:02 AM on October 9, 2013
I would donate to explicitly help homeless LGBT youth. In Salt Lake City, Utah, some 30-40% of homeless youth are LGBT, largely because of attitudes like Card's. Here's an article about some of the efforts to help them. A lot of these youth are homeless because they have been kicked out by their religious and/or homophobic parents.
You could donate to a local charity, as I imagine that there are a disproportionate number of LGBT youth among the homeless in the UK as well; even in a liberal city like Toronto, about 20% of homeless youth identify as LGBT, compared to about 3-5% of the population at large.
There is also the Ali Forney Centre in New York City.
posted by jb at 10:05 AM on October 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
You could donate to a local charity, as I imagine that there are a disproportionate number of LGBT youth among the homeless in the UK as well; even in a liberal city like Toronto, about 20% of homeless youth identify as LGBT, compared to about 3-5% of the population at large.
There is also the Ali Forney Centre in New York City.
posted by jb at 10:05 AM on October 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
Here's a bit about the Homeless Youth Resource Center in Salt Lake City. I don't know if they are as well organized for donations as the Ali Forney Center is.
posted by jb at 10:09 AM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jb at 10:09 AM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I second the idea of contributing to your state-based "Equality [Yourstate]" organization, and I never miss a chance to recommend the American Foundation for Equal Rights, the group that got Prop. 8 overturned and continues to work through the court system to attain marriage equality.
posted by Smells of Detroit at 11:38 AM on October 9, 2013
posted by Smells of Detroit at 11:38 AM on October 9, 2013
Try this thought experiment: You could get someone to pay for your ticket, and that way you would be off the moral hook. (Doesn't compute in any variation.) If you (want to) watch the movie, it doesn't make any difference whether you pay for it or not. Just think about how conflicted you'll be if it turns out that you enjoy it.
People who find Card repugnant perhaps ought to avoid his work. His notions about gay people are legitimate fodder for discussion groups and pro-gay activities: public awareness strategies, and such. On the other hand, boycotts ought to be focused on the idea, not the person. It doesn't make any sense to boycott a film for reasons that aren't inherent in the film. If the film has a subtext of intolerance, then it should be dealt with accordingly, by discussion. It seems to me that the movie ought to be judged on its own merits. In this case, meeting intolerance with suppression seems counterproductive. By boycotting the movie, you are asking others in the choir to accept your opinion without having the opportunity to make their own decision. If done well, a boycott is a serious, effective tool. It's easy to let fervor turn to hubris.
I don't share Card's anti-gay stance. On the other hand, I didn't see that stance expressed in Ender's Game, the book. I don't see why it might be expressed in the movie. In fact, in the book I saw a strong subtext implying that children are victims in war. There was an uncomfortable "We vs They" element that I see in most genre war fiction, but it didn't seem to be any worse than "Independence Day" (the movie). This sort of thing bothers me to the extent that it generalizes the killing of "the enemy" by making them shadowy monsters. But Enders Game seemed to take a step sideways, asking the reader to lend a sympathetic eye to the destruction of a civilization. If you can't show that Ender's Game has an anti-gay theme, then you are trying to make orange juice with apples.
Anyhow, your question was straightforward: Can you side-step your moral convictions? In my view, you can't. It isn't the giving Card money that's wrong. It's supporting his anti-gay agenda.
posted by mule98J at 12:07 PM on October 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
People who find Card repugnant perhaps ought to avoid his work. His notions about gay people are legitimate fodder for discussion groups and pro-gay activities: public awareness strategies, and such. On the other hand, boycotts ought to be focused on the idea, not the person. It doesn't make any sense to boycott a film for reasons that aren't inherent in the film. If the film has a subtext of intolerance, then it should be dealt with accordingly, by discussion. It seems to me that the movie ought to be judged on its own merits. In this case, meeting intolerance with suppression seems counterproductive. By boycotting the movie, you are asking others in the choir to accept your opinion without having the opportunity to make their own decision. If done well, a boycott is a serious, effective tool. It's easy to let fervor turn to hubris.
I don't share Card's anti-gay stance. On the other hand, I didn't see that stance expressed in Ender's Game, the book. I don't see why it might be expressed in the movie. In fact, in the book I saw a strong subtext implying that children are victims in war. There was an uncomfortable "We vs They" element that I see in most genre war fiction, but it didn't seem to be any worse than "Independence Day" (the movie). This sort of thing bothers me to the extent that it generalizes the killing of "the enemy" by making them shadowy monsters. But Enders Game seemed to take a step sideways, asking the reader to lend a sympathetic eye to the destruction of a civilization. If you can't show that Ender's Game has an anti-gay theme, then you are trying to make orange juice with apples.
Anyhow, your question was straightforward: Can you side-step your moral convictions? In my view, you can't. It isn't the giving Card money that's wrong. It's supporting his anti-gay agenda.
posted by mule98J at 12:07 PM on October 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: I like the argument mule89J. I was thinking about the utility of my money. That is to say that if Card gets any money from me, and Card spends any money on his dreadful campaigns then there is some sort of argument to suggest that it is my 1/10th of a penny or whatever.
Although to be fair I've not held other industries to such strict account.
I think it just bothers me because I really liked the Ender books and I'm cross that he turned out to be such a jerk.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:25 PM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Although to be fair I've not held other industries to such strict account.
I think it just bothers me because I really liked the Ender books and I'm cross that he turned out to be such a jerk.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:25 PM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would tend to agree with mule98J's assessment. It matters far more to me what the movie will be about and what message it sends rather than what Card's personal beliefs are. That said, I'm not going to see it until it's been out a week and I can see the reviews for it. I have a sneaking suspicion that despite the fact that it was one of my favorite books growing up, the movie won't live up to expectations.
Also, donating to LGBTQ causes is a good thing to do whether you end up seeing the movie or not, but if it helps assuage/offset any potential guilt for seeing it, more power to you.
posted by Aleyn at 3:30 PM on October 9, 2013
Also, donating to LGBTQ causes is a good thing to do whether you end up seeing the movie or not, but if it helps assuage/offset any potential guilt for seeing it, more power to you.
posted by Aleyn at 3:30 PM on October 9, 2013
I was going to suggest the Albert Kennedy Trust as well.
I think though your best option might be to wait until it's available on a streaming service, or you can add it to your Lovefilm queue. (I'm assuming that you have ruled out pirating it.)
posted by mippy at 3:30 AM on October 10, 2013
I think though your best option might be to wait until it's available on a streaming service, or you can add it to your Lovefilm queue. (I'm assuming that you have ruled out pirating it.)
posted by mippy at 3:30 AM on October 10, 2013
Response by poster: So, yeah, still haven't seen it. Turns out I didn't feel like I was missing out based on reviews.
Thanks for all your views.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:55 PM on March 16, 2014
Thanks for all your views.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:55 PM on March 16, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by magnetsphere at 8:26 AM on October 9, 2013