Commercial espresso machine for my house?
October 3, 2005 8:45 AM Subscribe
EspressoFilter: Help me find a commercial espresso machine for home use.
My husband has been saying for years that he would like a commercial espresso machine for our house, because apparently the ones sold for home use aren’t worth the money and are unable to produce sufficient pressure. I want to get him one for his birthday, but I have no idea what I’m looking for.
I don’t drink coffee of any kind, so I’m not clear at all on what features I need, what (if anything) is wrong with the machines designed for home use, or how to select a suitable commercial machine. I am also not sure if this is something that I should buy online, or if I’m better off seeking out a restaurant supply company.
I’m also not sure if it makes a difference, but we are renters who move every couple of years. I know that these machines involve something with steam and pressure, but I’m not clear on whether this needs to be permanently installed.
Can the Metafilter espresso drinkers please help me?
My husband has been saying for years that he would like a commercial espresso machine for our house, because apparently the ones sold for home use aren’t worth the money and are unable to produce sufficient pressure. I want to get him one for his birthday, but I have no idea what I’m looking for.
I don’t drink coffee of any kind, so I’m not clear at all on what features I need, what (if anything) is wrong with the machines designed for home use, or how to select a suitable commercial machine. I am also not sure if this is something that I should buy online, or if I’m better off seeking out a restaurant supply company.
I’m also not sure if it makes a difference, but we are renters who move every couple of years. I know that these machines involve something with steam and pressure, but I’m not clear on whether this needs to be permanently installed.
Can the Metafilter espresso drinkers please help me?
Slate did a great review of espresso machines that should help you. They like the Francis Francis X3.
posted by fearless_yakov at 9:20 AM on October 3, 2005
posted by fearless_yakov at 9:20 AM on October 3, 2005
Full blown commercial machines may be overkill, as they are designed with lots of heating capacity, for situations where they are used to constantly pull shots. Many will also use plumbed connections for water, and need a drain for their convenience trays.
There are a number of Italian machine manufacturers who produce high-end home/office machines, that might be more suitable. These machines use a mechanical pump which raises the pressure of the hot water to between 7 and 18 atmospheres of pressure, to enhance extraction of oils from the finely ground espresso. This kind of extraction produces a very aromatic "crema," which is a kind of tan foam that floats on the surface of freshly made espresso, and which gives espresso much of its distinctive aroma and flavor appeal.
The very simplest machines such as the low end Krups, use no mechanical pump, but just heat water in a boiler, and use the steam pressure to push water through the espresso grounds. Accordingly, they don't get to as high a range of pressures as pump machines, and so are not as easily controlled. This leads to considerable variations in the quality of espresso, and makes them very dependent on the consistency of grinding of the coffee beans.
Pump style machines are generally preferred by enthusiats, but the choice of a machine is pretty personal. Some people like the old hand pump machines, where "pulling a shot" is exactly that. Other people like the convenience of automatic machines, or feel they need steaming attachments, grinders or other bells and whistles in their machines. You can learn about the various kinds of machines at a lot of Web sites, but I suspect your husband has some pretty definite ideas about the kind of machine he wants, and would far prefer to be involved in the selection of a machine, so as to get one he likes.
Besides, half the fun of getting a good machine is shopping for it.
posted by paulsc at 9:23 AM on October 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
There are a number of Italian machine manufacturers who produce high-end home/office machines, that might be more suitable. These machines use a mechanical pump which raises the pressure of the hot water to between 7 and 18 atmospheres of pressure, to enhance extraction of oils from the finely ground espresso. This kind of extraction produces a very aromatic "crema," which is a kind of tan foam that floats on the surface of freshly made espresso, and which gives espresso much of its distinctive aroma and flavor appeal.
The very simplest machines such as the low end Krups, use no mechanical pump, but just heat water in a boiler, and use the steam pressure to push water through the espresso grounds. Accordingly, they don't get to as high a range of pressures as pump machines, and so are not as easily controlled. This leads to considerable variations in the quality of espresso, and makes them very dependent on the consistency of grinding of the coffee beans.
Pump style machines are generally preferred by enthusiats, but the choice of a machine is pretty personal. Some people like the old hand pump machines, where "pulling a shot" is exactly that. Other people like the convenience of automatic machines, or feel they need steaming attachments, grinders or other bells and whistles in their machines. You can learn about the various kinds of machines at a lot of Web sites, but I suspect your husband has some pretty definite ideas about the kind of machine he wants, and would far prefer to be involved in the selection of a machine, so as to get one he likes.
Besides, half the fun of getting a good machine is shopping for it.
posted by paulsc at 9:23 AM on October 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
Do you have a budget in mind? The Rancilio Silvia is well-regarded and around $500. If you want to go cheaper, you can get a Gaggia Espresso for around $200. You can find loads of reviews at coffeegeek.com (though the site is not loading for me at the moment).
posted by exogenous at 9:24 AM on October 3, 2005
posted by exogenous at 9:24 AM on October 3, 2005
How far are you willing to do? A true "commercial" espresso machine needs a direct connection to your water supply and will run you into the thousands.
posted by mkultra at 9:25 AM on October 3, 2005
posted by mkultra at 9:25 AM on October 3, 2005
Hm... might be worth clarifying with him that when he says "commercial", he really means commercial. Typically that involves a massive, unbelievably heavy multi-group machine, plumbed directly into a water line. Overkill for a home set-up I would argue.
Your comments about the quality of home espresso machines are points well made, but I would clarify that you can get "prosumer" machines which produce espresso of directly comparable quality to shop machines, but which are more manageable in the home (ie single group, isolated water tank etc.) I have a Nuovo Simonelli Oscar, with which I am extremely happy, and these are at the bottom end of the prosumer scale. Definitely suggest that you do some research of the reviews on sites like Coffee Geek to get some more ideas.
I know it's awkward with presents, but I wonder if this is the sort of thing that he would prefer to be consulted on if you can cope with spoiling the surprise. There are so many variables involved in the choice (it's analogous to buying a PC I suppose...), that he might have really strong opinions, and be disappointed with your choice. Variables include things like appearance of course, but also his preferred drinks (eg some machines steam milk better than others etc). If you buy from the right supplier you might be able to persuade them to sell you a machine on the understanding that they'll swap it unused for another if he isn't happy with it. I'm in the UK, but have heard good things about Whole Latte Love, and a company called Chris' Coffee in the US.
posted by bifter at 9:37 AM on October 3, 2005
Your comments about the quality of home espresso machines are points well made, but I would clarify that you can get "prosumer" machines which produce espresso of directly comparable quality to shop machines, but which are more manageable in the home (ie single group, isolated water tank etc.) I have a Nuovo Simonelli Oscar, with which I am extremely happy, and these are at the bottom end of the prosumer scale. Definitely suggest that you do some research of the reviews on sites like Coffee Geek to get some more ideas.
I know it's awkward with presents, but I wonder if this is the sort of thing that he would prefer to be consulted on if you can cope with spoiling the surprise. There are so many variables involved in the choice (it's analogous to buying a PC I suppose...), that he might have really strong opinions, and be disappointed with your choice. Variables include things like appearance of course, but also his preferred drinks (eg some machines steam milk better than others etc). If you buy from the right supplier you might be able to persuade them to sell you a machine on the understanding that they'll swap it unused for another if he isn't happy with it. I'm in the UK, but have heard good things about Whole Latte Love, and a company called Chris' Coffee in the US.
posted by bifter at 9:37 AM on October 3, 2005
You require a pump-driven espresso maker. There are only a few rational choices, and these are detailed at coffeegeek.com.
Unless your hubby is drawing espressos for crowds of a dozen, he does not need a commercial machine.
If your hubby is not purchasing green beans for home roasting and grinding, a commercial machine would be an amazing, unthinkable waste. Simply insane.
IMO the Rancilio Silvia pretty much tops-out the home user market. It is absurd to purchase more than that.
Myself, I use a Starbucks Barista, which is a rebadged Saeco. The price is right when they're on sale, they are built like a tank, and with care they make an excellent espresso.
I know Starbucks is, rightly, loathed with passion by most informed coffee geeks. If you can get him to realize that the Barista is not a Starbucks product, but rather a middle-tier Italian product at a near-wholesale price, it may well represent the best bang for the buck.
IMO YHMMV
posted by five fresh fish at 9:47 AM on October 3, 2005
Unless your hubby is drawing espressos for crowds of a dozen, he does not need a commercial machine.
If your hubby is not purchasing green beans for home roasting and grinding, a commercial machine would be an amazing, unthinkable waste. Simply insane.
IMO the Rancilio Silvia pretty much tops-out the home user market. It is absurd to purchase more than that.
Myself, I use a Starbucks Barista, which is a rebadged Saeco. The price is right when they're on sale, they are built like a tank, and with care they make an excellent espresso.
I know Starbucks is, rightly, loathed with passion by most informed coffee geeks. If you can get him to realize that the Barista is not a Starbucks product, but rather a middle-tier Italian product at a near-wholesale price, it may well represent the best bang for the buck.
IMO YHMMV
posted by five fresh fish at 9:47 AM on October 3, 2005
IMO the Rancilio Silvia pretty much tops-out the home user market. It is absurd to purchase more than that.
The poor milk-steaming from the Silvia is a definite negative for anyone that frequently drinks cappucino or similar though, total PITA in fact. Also, different machines retail at different prices in different countries. The cost of the Oscar in Europe compares very favourably to the Silvia, whereas it does not in the US. This could definitely impact on the choice.
One very good point though: there is absolutely no point whatsoever getting a decent espresso machine without a decent grinder. The grinder is fundamental to good espresso. The bare minimum should be something like a Rancilio Rocky, and if you're going really top-end, then you might want to consider a Mazzer Mini or similar. Seriously, can't emphasise this point enough, it has to be factored into the $ of the package.
posted by bifter at 9:53 AM on October 3, 2005
The poor milk-steaming from the Silvia is a definite negative for anyone that frequently drinks cappucino or similar though, total PITA in fact. Also, different machines retail at different prices in different countries. The cost of the Oscar in Europe compares very favourably to the Silvia, whereas it does not in the US. This could definitely impact on the choice.
One very good point though: there is absolutely no point whatsoever getting a decent espresso machine without a decent grinder. The grinder is fundamental to good espresso. The bare minimum should be something like a Rancilio Rocky, and if you're going really top-end, then you might want to consider a Mazzer Mini or similar. Seriously, can't emphasise this point enough, it has to be factored into the $ of the package.
posted by bifter at 9:53 AM on October 3, 2005
I use a Rancilio Silvia I bought as a package with a Rocky Grinder and I could not be happier with the resulting coffee.
Silvia is more than enough machine for a one-coffee-drinker (and occasional guests) household.
And I second the recommendation for Coffeegeek. The site was an invaluable resource for me when I was shopping for my machine.
Fair warning - a good espresso machine is only as good as your grinder. You cannot use a cheap blade grinder with a high-end espresso machine, so budget for both an espresso machine and a burr-grinder.
Fair warning 2 - Premium equipment is a slippery slope. I bought a roaster shortly after my Silvia in pursuit of the freshest bean possible. Espresso can rapidly become a consuming passion. :-)
posted by Crosius at 9:56 AM on October 3, 2005
Silvia is more than enough machine for a one-coffee-drinker (and occasional guests) household.
And I second the recommendation for Coffeegeek. The site was an invaluable resource for me when I was shopping for my machine.
Fair warning - a good espresso machine is only as good as your grinder. You cannot use a cheap blade grinder with a high-end espresso machine, so budget for both an espresso machine and a burr-grinder.
Fair warning 2 - Premium equipment is a slippery slope. I bought a roaster shortly after my Silvia in pursuit of the freshest bean possible. Espresso can rapidly become a consuming passion. :-)
posted by Crosius at 9:56 AM on October 3, 2005
I agree with everybody who suggested reading the reviews at coffeegeek.com. Having just gone through much of this process myself (for my own use, not as a gift) here are some things you might want to think about.
If he's familiar with pressure issues on consumer machines, then what you're probably looking for is a "Heat Exchanger" ("HX") based semi-automatic espresso machine, probably with an E-61 group head. This pretty much defines the "prosumer" class of espresso machines, and puts you in at a price point for a new machine (although some nice refurb deals are often available from the major online vendors) of about $750 - $1500.
The quality of espresso and milk-steaming ability probably doesn't vary much from what you get on the low-end of that price range -- the high end tends to get you more reliability and convenience features.
A couple of other things to think about -- it is absolutely true that the quality of the grinder is as important or more so than the quality of the espresso machine; you'll want to budget $300 - $500 (again, new prices, with refurbs often available) for a grinder.
I wouldn't recommend a resturaunt supply company -- high end espresso is specialized enough that I'd go with a specialty vendor that knows the machines through and through.
There are several large internet vendors that have on the whole pretty good reputations (everybody has a dissatisfied customer or two out there, of course). Perhaps as important, they largely live and die on their reputation in the online community, so they have an incentive to maintain a good rep.
In no particular order, the vendors that I see people mention most are probably Chris's Coffee Service, Aabree Coffee, Whole Latte Love and 1st-Line Coffee. (I have no relationship with any of these other than having bought from a couple on occasion)
I'd suggest calling several of them, and telling them roughly what you're looking for and getting their suggestions -- at the same time you can form your own opinion of who seems to be most helpful, since you're probably going to want their help at some point or another. Most of them will probably be willing to offer you a better price than shown online for a package deal if you're buying a grinder at the same time.
You could then either go with one of their suggestions, or perhaps get him a gift certificate in the right price range from one of them, and let him pick out his specific preference himself.
posted by nonliteral at 10:07 AM on October 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
If he's familiar with pressure issues on consumer machines, then what you're probably looking for is a "Heat Exchanger" ("HX") based semi-automatic espresso machine, probably with an E-61 group head. This pretty much defines the "prosumer" class of espresso machines, and puts you in at a price point for a new machine (although some nice refurb deals are often available from the major online vendors) of about $750 - $1500.
The quality of espresso and milk-steaming ability probably doesn't vary much from what you get on the low-end of that price range -- the high end tends to get you more reliability and convenience features.
A couple of other things to think about -- it is absolutely true that the quality of the grinder is as important or more so than the quality of the espresso machine; you'll want to budget $300 - $500 (again, new prices, with refurbs often available) for a grinder.
I wouldn't recommend a resturaunt supply company -- high end espresso is specialized enough that I'd go with a specialty vendor that knows the machines through and through.
There are several large internet vendors that have on the whole pretty good reputations (everybody has a dissatisfied customer or two out there, of course). Perhaps as important, they largely live and die on their reputation in the online community, so they have an incentive to maintain a good rep.
In no particular order, the vendors that I see people mention most are probably Chris's Coffee Service, Aabree Coffee, Whole Latte Love and 1st-Line Coffee. (I have no relationship with any of these other than having bought from a couple on occasion)
I'd suggest calling several of them, and telling them roughly what you're looking for and getting their suggestions -- at the same time you can form your own opinion of who seems to be most helpful, since you're probably going to want their help at some point or another. Most of them will probably be willing to offer you a better price than shown online for a package deal if you're buying a grinder at the same time.
You could then either go with one of their suggestions, or perhaps get him a gift certificate in the right price range from one of them, and let him pick out his specific preference himself.
posted by nonliteral at 10:07 AM on October 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
Also... There are several excellent introductions to and reviews of this class of machine on home-barista.com -- they're pretty much all linked on the front page.
Spending a little time looking through those first might save you a lot of additional time and confusion sorting through reviews at Coffeegeek and talking with vendors.
posted by nonliteral at 10:11 AM on October 3, 2005
Spending a little time looking through those first might save you a lot of additional time and confusion sorting through reviews at Coffeegeek and talking with vendors.
posted by nonliteral at 10:11 AM on October 3, 2005
I have a sub-$300 Gaggia that draws a very nice shot, certainly comparable to what I get in US coffee shops... The milk steaming is tempermental - I end up drinking something between a cappucino and a latte, just because it seems silly to throw out half the milk and by the time I have steamed the milk, the shot has cooled down a bit. It also needs frequent cleaning - The grind required for me to get a nice strong shot (which also correlates with a nice crema) is thin enough to work its way up-stream from the filter head. It also takes a while to get to operating temps, but if you're pulling a shot or two at a time, not twelve, I don't think this is much of an issue.
posted by mzurer at 10:29 AM on October 3, 2005
posted by mzurer at 10:29 AM on October 3, 2005
I completely disagree that you'd have to spend $300-500 for a grinder. A burr grinder with stainless-steel blades would suffice, and you can pick one up for $100-200.
I say this after years of experience with La Marzocco (using, purchasing, servicing, etc), hands down the best espresso machine company in the world.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 10:30 AM on October 3, 2005
I say this after years of experience with La Marzocco (using, purchasing, servicing, etc), hands down the best espresso machine company in the world.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 10:30 AM on October 3, 2005
You should really read the alt.coffee archives.
Most of what's being said here is correct. In a nutshell, the best bang for the buck starts with the cheaper Gaggias ($200-$300), goes through the Rancilio Silvia ($600), and to the Expobar Office($700).
Street prices, I could be off by a few bucks, YMMV, etc.. Also, since Silvia has a steaming problem, people buy this aftermarket part to improve the steamer.
posted by Kwantsar at 12:49 PM on October 3, 2005
Most of what's being said here is correct. In a nutshell, the best bang for the buck starts with the cheaper Gaggias ($200-$300), goes through the Rancilio Silvia ($600), and to the Expobar Office($700).
Street prices, I could be off by a few bucks, YMMV, etc.. Also, since Silvia has a steaming problem, people buy this aftermarket part to improve the steamer.
posted by Kwantsar at 12:49 PM on October 3, 2005
I have a Solis Crema SL70 and also their burr grinder. Used to have a Gaggia, but the low end model that I had had pretty bad build quality. Solis is close in price, but much better machine. Any machine takes a bit of learning. Obviously, the quality of the beans is paramount.
posted by johngumbo at 1:31 PM on October 3, 2005
posted by johngumbo at 1:31 PM on October 3, 2005
Don't believe the hype about any supposed steaming problem with the Silvia. Like any single-boiler, non-heat-exchanger machine, it will take a little time to recover between brewing and steaming, but it steams like a champ with the stock steam wand tip. While I'm posting, I will re-emphasize the importance of a good burr grinder and freshly-roasted beans.
posted by exogenous at 1:43 PM on October 3, 2005
posted by exogenous at 1:43 PM on October 3, 2005
I've had a Rancilio Rialto (the predecessor model of the Rancilio Audrey, very similar to the Silvia), and a Rancilio Rocky grinder, for over twelve years. They are both great machines. I second exogenous' comments about the steaming hype, it's just not that big a deal. The issue with the Silvia steaming is easily overcome - after the light goes out the first time, simply run the pump until enough water is drawn in to turn the light back on and let it heat up again. The pressure after this second heat-up cycle is plenty to steam the milk. (Somewhere on coffeegeek there is an explanation for why this works, but I can't find it at the moment.) Rancilio machines are built like tanks, and they will last for years with even minimal maintenance.
Determine if the man unit wants to fiddle with lots of things to get perfect espresso. Pulling a good shot is an art, and it is different every day. Sort of like an electron microscope. It took me months to learn how to get consistent shots, and years later I still throw out 10 % of them.
If he just wants reliable espresso without the fuss, get a superautomatic. Although I like the gadgetry of a manual machine, it's messy and not suitable for everyone. I also have a Saeco Magic Deluxe superautomatic for my office. The espresso isn't quite what I can do with the Rancilio, but it's good enough to impress even my Italian colleagues. $1300 was a lot of bucks, but thankfully I used some unrestricted grant money to pay for it. It was worth it.
I highly recommend wholelattelove.com.
posted by Wet Spot at 6:09 PM on October 3, 2005
Determine if the man unit wants to fiddle with lots of things to get perfect espresso. Pulling a good shot is an art, and it is different every day. Sort of like an electron microscope. It took me months to learn how to get consistent shots, and years later I still throw out 10 % of them.
If he just wants reliable espresso without the fuss, get a superautomatic. Although I like the gadgetry of a manual machine, it's messy and not suitable for everyone. I also have a Saeco Magic Deluxe superautomatic for my office. The espresso isn't quite what I can do with the Rancilio, but it's good enough to impress even my Italian colleagues. $1300 was a lot of bucks, but thankfully I used some unrestricted grant money to pay for it. It was worth it.
I highly recommend wholelattelove.com.
posted by Wet Spot at 6:09 PM on October 3, 2005
A few notes on my espresso-making:
I use a Starbucks burr grinder, ~CA$130. It is a rebadged something-else that typically sells for a higher price. It required a minor adjustment to grind finely enough. I need to shake it a few times while it grinds, I think because the outspout clogs up.
I drink latte. I steam my milk directly in the mug, adding a dash of vanilla for flavour. An ordinary pasta-jar lid props the mug up to the perfect height. I grind a 1.5oz measure of beans to the finest grind, and I tamp them into the portafilter using a spice jar lid. This quantity and the pressure to fit snugly into the portahead makes for a reliably good cuppa. The pour generally lasts ~20s, unless I've bolloxed it by overfilling. I pour into the same shotglass I used for measuring, and it typically has a large head of creama, and the crema lasts several minutes.
I really rather doubt that doubling my investment would double my coffee's flavour and my enjoyment. About the only thing I can imagine would improve is a solidly-reliable excellent crema. Given that my drink is mostly milk, I think I'm better off putting the money into good coffee bean.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:41 PM on October 3, 2005
I use a Starbucks burr grinder, ~CA$130. It is a rebadged something-else that typically sells for a higher price. It required a minor adjustment to grind finely enough. I need to shake it a few times while it grinds, I think because the outspout clogs up.
I drink latte. I steam my milk directly in the mug, adding a dash of vanilla for flavour. An ordinary pasta-jar lid props the mug up to the perfect height. I grind a 1.5oz measure of beans to the finest grind, and I tamp them into the portafilter using a spice jar lid. This quantity and the pressure to fit snugly into the portahead makes for a reliably good cuppa. The pour generally lasts ~20s, unless I've bolloxed it by overfilling. I pour into the same shotglass I used for measuring, and it typically has a large head of creama, and the crema lasts several minutes.
I really rather doubt that doubling my investment would double my coffee's flavour and my enjoyment. About the only thing I can imagine would improve is a solidly-reliable excellent crema. Given that my drink is mostly milk, I think I'm better off putting the money into good coffee bean.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:41 PM on October 3, 2005
I'm confused about the definition of a "commercial" espresso machine being used here. What I consider a commercial espresso machine would take up my entire kitchen counter, and would have to be installed/hardwired by an electrician on a dedicated 240 volt circuit. If you can plug it into a regular electrical outlet, it's not a commercial espresso machine.
posted by winston at 10:15 AM on October 4, 2005
posted by winston at 10:15 AM on October 4, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mic stand at 8:58 AM on October 3, 2005