Advice: Am I Dealing with a Sociopath or Not?
September 15, 2013 5:23 PM Subscribe
Hi all,
I am in quite a complicated situation. Would love advice from all in terms of who I am dealing with, and the best path forward. I will try to summarize as much as possible, and please let me know if I am unclear in any area.
About six months ago, I reached out to a friend of my roommate who lives in NYC (I live in SF) who I had not met but wanted to ask advice about something I knew he was familiar with. He responded warmly and gave it. We kept in touch, but nothing extreme. He then suddenly said that he was visiting SF: he ran the dates by me, etc. He came out to visit my roommate, and I was attracted to him -- then the entire weekend flirted very aggressively with me in front of my friends -- at one point we were alone and he was literally standing very close to me. I then found out after he left he went on another date with a woman. I was very angry because I did like him and decided he wasn't worth my time. Whatever. His loss.
Sounds simple, right? I never reached out to him. Except he keeps reaching out to me. Texting, calling, chatting when I am on FB, liking my photos. At the same time, he becomes serious with this woman. He comes out to CA a lot, and every time reaches out to me to "hang out." I decline politely. But I do see him when we hang out with our mutual friends, and he brings his girlfriend. While we hang out, he again aggressively flirts with me in front of her. This goes on for a while, and then it becomes painfully obvious that he may not even be aware that I liked him at a point.
A few weeks ago I bring it up and clearly state that I felt rejected and that it was awkward for me. He says that he had no idea that I was interested the first weekend we met and interpreted some of my actions as non interest. I can see how he can see that as I can be hard to read. But then he made some strange comments: that his girlfriend was jealous when he flirts with me, and that he enjoys the "spice" of when there is jealousy. He also said that we "have very good chemistry" and towards the end of what was a three hour conversation, "wants to have dinner to catch up." He also insisted that I not flake because "I always do that" (hello: because I'm not interested in being with someone who is crazy!). Yet, in the beginning he also says that he likes his girlfriend alot and asks about the guy I am dating.
I ask the roommate (who has known him for fifteen years...longer than I have) and if this is normal behavior. She thinks nothing of it, and says that he is just a flirty guy. I think this guy is bad news and treating his girlfriend badly. I'm not sure if this dinner is a date or a catch up. I'm torn because this guy and I have a lot of mutual friends; and I may want friendship and I may be misinterpreting his reaching out as guilt and desire for friendship. But this whole thing seems weird, and I have never met someone with no sense of guilt or remorse about these actions. He also enjoys it when his girlfriend is upset, which I find strange. The strangest part of all is that none of my friends seem to see the issue, and they are good people. They think I am overreacting and overthinking.
Any advice on how to understand and proceed. For now I believe I am not going to this dinner with another polite response but becoming a little freaked out by how strange this situation is.
About six months ago, I reached out to a friend of my roommate who lives in NYC (I live in SF) who I had not met but wanted to ask advice about something I knew he was familiar with. He responded warmly and gave it. We kept in touch, but nothing extreme. He then suddenly said that he was visiting SF: he ran the dates by me, etc. He came out to visit my roommate, and I was attracted to him -- then the entire weekend flirted very aggressively with me in front of my friends -- at one point we were alone and he was literally standing very close to me. I then found out after he left he went on another date with a woman. I was very angry because I did like him and decided he wasn't worth my time. Whatever. His loss.
Sounds simple, right? I never reached out to him. Except he keeps reaching out to me. Texting, calling, chatting when I am on FB, liking my photos. At the same time, he becomes serious with this woman. He comes out to CA a lot, and every time reaches out to me to "hang out." I decline politely. But I do see him when we hang out with our mutual friends, and he brings his girlfriend. While we hang out, he again aggressively flirts with me in front of her. This goes on for a while, and then it becomes painfully obvious that he may not even be aware that I liked him at a point.
A few weeks ago I bring it up and clearly state that I felt rejected and that it was awkward for me. He says that he had no idea that I was interested the first weekend we met and interpreted some of my actions as non interest. I can see how he can see that as I can be hard to read. But then he made some strange comments: that his girlfriend was jealous when he flirts with me, and that he enjoys the "spice" of when there is jealousy. He also said that we "have very good chemistry" and towards the end of what was a three hour conversation, "wants to have dinner to catch up." He also insisted that I not flake because "I always do that" (hello: because I'm not interested in being with someone who is crazy!). Yet, in the beginning he also says that he likes his girlfriend alot and asks about the guy I am dating.
I ask the roommate (who has known him for fifteen years...longer than I have) and if this is normal behavior. She thinks nothing of it, and says that he is just a flirty guy. I think this guy is bad news and treating his girlfriend badly. I'm not sure if this dinner is a date or a catch up. I'm torn because this guy and I have a lot of mutual friends; and I may want friendship and I may be misinterpreting his reaching out as guilt and desire for friendship. But this whole thing seems weird, and I have never met someone with no sense of guilt or remorse about these actions. He also enjoys it when his girlfriend is upset, which I find strange. The strangest part of all is that none of my friends seem to see the issue, and they are good people. They think I am overreacting and overthinking.
Any advice on how to understand and proceed. For now I believe I am not going to this dinner with another polite response but becoming a little freaked out by how strange this situation is.
Oh, I also think the super-strong, immediate "connection" you feel, and overwhelming you in the beginning with positive attention (texts, calls, FB likes), are trademark moves of guys like these. I also think he got pleasure from getting you to like him and then having you find out he's dating someone else, and feel rejected and hurt.
posted by cairdeas at 5:33 PM on September 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by cairdeas at 5:33 PM on September 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
In my part of the world, we call this type of person a dick.
Remove him from your life and protect yourself—the sooner, the better.
posted by mynameisluka at 5:33 PM on September 15, 2013 [42 favorites]
Remove him from your life and protect yourself—the sooner, the better.
posted by mynameisluka at 5:33 PM on September 15, 2013 [42 favorites]
But then he made some strange comments: that his girlfriend was jealous when he flirts with me, and that he enjoys the "spice" of when there is jealousy.
He also enjoys it when his girlfriend is upset, which I find strange.
'Is he a sociopath?' is the wrong question - no one here can diagnose him. But he certainly seems like an asshole, and you don't like his behaviour. So the obvious thing to do is to avoid him.
I think this guy is bad news and treating his girlfriend badly.
None of your business, and not your problem. Stay out of that.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:34 PM on September 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
He also enjoys it when his girlfriend is upset, which I find strange.
'Is he a sociopath?' is the wrong question - no one here can diagnose him. But he certainly seems like an asshole, and you don't like his behaviour. So the obvious thing to do is to avoid him.
I think this guy is bad news and treating his girlfriend badly.
None of your business, and not your problem. Stay out of that.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:34 PM on September 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
Listen to your gut. He is trying to sleep with you on the side. And then will enjoy dumping you.
posted by ravioli at 5:34 PM on September 15, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by ravioli at 5:34 PM on September 15, 2013 [13 favorites]
I'm a little confused as to the question being asked here. Do you want to know if he's genuinely a sociopath? (No/not enough information) If he's a jerk? (Yes.) If you should date him? (No, probably not.)
posted by katyggls at 5:35 PM on September 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by katyggls at 5:35 PM on September 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
You are aggravated by this guy and it also sounds like you find his drama fascinating. He sounds like he likes drama. If you don't want to participate it is totally reasonable to decline his invitations.
posted by feets at 5:38 PM on September 15, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by feets at 5:38 PM on September 15, 2013 [7 favorites]
Trust your radar. He appears to be, as said above, a dick.
posted by parki at 5:39 PM on September 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by parki at 5:39 PM on September 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
I can't get past
he was literally standing very close to me. I then found out after he left he went on another date with a woman. I was very angry
which sounds pretty game-playing-ish. You were angry about him going on a date because: he had stood close to you? What?
Too much drama on both sides, and nothing sounds particularly fun. He sounds flirty and you sound coy and you're dating somebody and so is he. I'd trust your friends on this, forget it, and move on.
posted by kmennie at 5:39 PM on September 15, 2013 [20 favorites]
he was literally standing very close to me. I then found out after he left he went on another date with a woman. I was very angry
which sounds pretty game-playing-ish. You were angry about him going on a date because: he had stood close to you? What?
Too much drama on both sides, and nothing sounds particularly fun. He sounds flirty and you sound coy and you're dating somebody and so is he. I'd trust your friends on this, forget it, and move on.
posted by kmennie at 5:39 PM on September 15, 2013 [20 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks guys, I agree with all of you here. Nice to know that people can read him immediately as a jerk! The challenge for me: how to deal with my friends who think I am overreacting when I decline his invitations and avoid him. Tough situation because they will all hang out a lot.
posted by pando11 at 5:41 PM on September 15, 2013
posted by pando11 at 5:41 PM on September 15, 2013
You should do what makes you comfortable.
In situations like this, it's sometimes hard to tell whether to make your boundaries explicit or just keep begging off until he gets the hint. I think here you should call him out because he already knows you have feelings for him so you won't be tipping him off to anything he doesn't know by speaking up, but he hasn't seen you stand up for yourself and may keep pressing until you take measures that are less passive. Maybe other commentators will have something to say about this, too. I think the script is, "Please don't take this personally, but I don't think you're the best person for me to be spending time with one-on-one. If we're ever spending time together with mutual friends, I'll of course be civil to you but you need to stop flirting with me because it makes me uncomfortable."
Then, disengage. Unfriend him on Facebook and block him on your phone if hearing from him bothers you. If your friends give you a hard time about it, change the subject, and stop talking about it with them.
Also, he may be playing a game called rapo, described by Eric Berne, which is described as a "feminine" game. The player flirts and either gets their payoff from the attention or the actual act of rejecting someone.
posted by alphanerd at 5:44 PM on September 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
In situations like this, it's sometimes hard to tell whether to make your boundaries explicit or just keep begging off until he gets the hint. I think here you should call him out because he already knows you have feelings for him so you won't be tipping him off to anything he doesn't know by speaking up, but he hasn't seen you stand up for yourself and may keep pressing until you take measures that are less passive. Maybe other commentators will have something to say about this, too. I think the script is, "Please don't take this personally, but I don't think you're the best person for me to be spending time with one-on-one. If we're ever spending time together with mutual friends, I'll of course be civil to you but you need to stop flirting with me because it makes me uncomfortable."
Then, disengage. Unfriend him on Facebook and block him on your phone if hearing from him bothers you. If your friends give you a hard time about it, change the subject, and stop talking about it with them.
Also, he may be playing a game called rapo, described by Eric Berne, which is described as a "feminine" game. The player flirts and either gets their payoff from the attention or the actual act of rejecting someone.
posted by alphanerd at 5:44 PM on September 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Life is challenging as it is. Why in the world would you even consider letting a questionable character like this into your life? Seriously, don't do it.
posted by Dansaman at 5:44 PM on September 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Dansaman at 5:44 PM on September 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
He's just interested enough in you to flirt with you, use you as a supporting character to hurt his girlfriend and create spice in his primary relationship, and bolster his ego by getting you to spend your time and mental energy on him. He'd probably be happy to sleep with you once or twice.
Your friends don't see the problem because it wouldn't be their problem.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:45 PM on September 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
Your friends don't see the problem because it wouldn't be their problem.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:45 PM on September 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
Best answer: The challenge for me: how to deal with my friends who think I am overreacting when I decline his invitations and avoid him.
Just don't make a big deal out of it and act like there is no major reason for it.
Don't reply to him on FB and don't reply to any of his invitations. Just go totally silent on him because eventually he should give up.
If he complains to your friends that you are ignoring him, say something totally boring and devoid of information like, "Oh, huh. Well, I've been pretty busy." Just keep repeating things like that. If you never say anything dramatic they won't have anything to argue against.
posted by cairdeas at 5:50 PM on September 15, 2013 [27 favorites]
Just don't make a big deal out of it and act like there is no major reason for it.
Don't reply to him on FB and don't reply to any of his invitations. Just go totally silent on him because eventually he should give up.
If he complains to your friends that you are ignoring him, say something totally boring and devoid of information like, "Oh, huh. Well, I've been pretty busy." Just keep repeating things like that. If you never say anything dramatic they won't have anything to argue against.
posted by cairdeas at 5:50 PM on September 15, 2013 [27 favorites]
He enjoys the "spice" of when there is jealousy.
'Sociopath' is beyond my competency. But no more detail required -- that's not somebody to get involved with.
posted by LonnieK at 6:01 PM on September 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
'Sociopath' is beyond my competency. But no more detail required -- that's not somebody to get involved with.
posted by LonnieK at 6:01 PM on September 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
The challenge for me: how to deal with my friends who think I am overreacting when I decline his invitations and avoid him.
Respectfully, who gives two shits on the moon what they think? You don't have to (and shouldn't really), explain yourself to them. You don't really like him; you don't want to hang out with him. You don't even need to mention that you don't really like him.
Goodness, there are people in my social circle I don't really like; I don't make a song and dance about it, or draw attention to the fact I avoid them. If it's a gathering in a large group, I go because there's more than enough people to skirt around the ones I don't like. If it's a small group, then I've got something else on.
Also, block him on facebook already. I'm not blaming you or anything here - this guy is clearly a grade-A arsehole - but you seem to be feeding this drama yourself, as well. If someone who has a girlfriend is knowingly flirting with you, in front of their girlfriend, the answer is not a 1-1 three hour convo and a lotta facebooking. The answer is to shut that shit down pronto.
posted by smoke at 6:06 PM on September 15, 2013 [37 favorites]
Respectfully, who gives two shits on the moon what they think? You don't have to (and shouldn't really), explain yourself to them. You don't really like him; you don't want to hang out with him. You don't even need to mention that you don't really like him.
Goodness, there are people in my social circle I don't really like; I don't make a song and dance about it, or draw attention to the fact I avoid them. If it's a gathering in a large group, I go because there's more than enough people to skirt around the ones I don't like. If it's a small group, then I've got something else on.
Also, block him on facebook already. I'm not blaming you or anything here - this guy is clearly a grade-A arsehole - but you seem to be feeding this drama yourself, as well. If someone who has a girlfriend is knowingly flirting with you, in front of their girlfriend, the answer is not a 1-1 three hour convo and a lotta facebooking. The answer is to shut that shit down pronto.
posted by smoke at 6:06 PM on September 15, 2013 [37 favorites]
I was this guy's girlfriend. As far as I could tell, he had a near-insatiable need for female attention and approval, and he had no empathy. He was very charming and flirty and could be very appealing to many women. "Everyone" liked him. He sweet-talked women, danced with them, exchanged flirty messages, and had heart-to-heart talks about their personal problems, and then acted surprised and concerned if they became interested in him.
He said he didn't understand my anger but I think he did and he enjoyed it. He is using you. Don't give him any satisfaction. Follow cairdeas's excellent advice because it will both stop the behavior and quietly let all the air out of his balloon.
posted by ceiba at 6:38 PM on September 15, 2013 [14 favorites]
He said he didn't understand my anger but I think he did and he enjoyed it. He is using you. Don't give him any satisfaction. Follow cairdeas's excellent advice because it will both stop the behavior and quietly let all the air out of his balloon.
posted by ceiba at 6:38 PM on September 15, 2013 [14 favorites]
The challenge for me: how to deal with my friends who think I am overreacting when I decline his invitations and avoid him.
Don't make a big deal out of it - just tell them that he's not your cup of tea and leave it there.
And smoke is right - block him on all communications channels. There's no need for you to waste your valuable brain space thinking about this tool or anything he says.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:51 PM on September 15, 2013
Don't make a big deal out of it - just tell them that he's not your cup of tea and leave it there.
And smoke is right - block him on all communications channels. There's no need for you to waste your valuable brain space thinking about this tool or anything he says.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:51 PM on September 15, 2013
Response by poster: Thank you all! Really appreciate the straightforward advice. I will be sure to ignore. I blocked him on Gmail / Gchat already and that's been really good. The last challenge is when I see him when we hang out in group situations. I think I will just be polite and cordial and if he begins to flirt with me again I'll just excuse myself to the bathroom or something. Thanks again all. It's unfortunate that these people walk into our lives.
posted by pando11 at 6:58 PM on September 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by pando11 at 6:58 PM on September 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
There's no need to assign any kind of armchair diagnosis to this dude. He's just an asshole.
posted by elizardbits at 7:04 PM on September 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:04 PM on September 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
He's an asshole, and he's not available. And he wants to hook up with you, is feeling out his options, likes the attention, or some combination of these or similar factors. That's more than enough to stay away; I don't see enough for a nonmedical armchair diagnosis that he's a sociopath.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:15 PM on September 15, 2013
posted by J. Wilson at 7:15 PM on September 15, 2013
he's a garden variety player, a jerk. just avoid him. also, i'd be really careful about throwing around terms like "sociopath" about people. that is best left to the professionals.
posted by wildflower at 8:02 PM on September 15, 2013
posted by wildflower at 8:02 PM on September 15, 2013
I can't Nth celba, and therefore cairdeas, enough!!
If you want a diagnosis, I'm happy to weigh in.
Number One: He's an insecure asshole dealing with deep personal pain, underneath it all.
He's charming to the extreme, which is common with these types, AND IT IS WHY YOUR FRIENDS DON'T "GET IT."
Except, they really really should Get It, and you might rethink how close you want to be with this circle of friends, too.
Side Bar: While I am not dumb enough these days to recommend friendships with people like this anymore, I foolishly briefly supported someone in business who was Bad News to fellow colleagues, and the hot second I saw how fucked up they were, I notified & apologized to my colleagues for my misjudgement. I also made up any financial loss a few folks had doing business with this person because I felt my reputation was that important. I have not misjudged anyone personally or professionally since this happened 3 years ago. I am still generous, but guarded - if that makes sense?
This guy is Sadistic, for sure. Can't say anything about being a psychopath or sociopath.
My saying for things like this?
Happy People Don't Do Bad Things.
This person does Bad Things. He can not be fixed because his world view is tremendously different from a healthy person's perspective.
Lastly...
Yeah. You want to catch yourself the next time a Drama Llama comes along. It's never ever worth it.
Good on you for posting here and not getting too involved. Stay far far away from this guy. He is setting you up for disaster
"Sorry! Too busy to hang out!"
Repeat as necessary:))
posted by jbenben at 9:34 PM on September 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
If you want a diagnosis, I'm happy to weigh in.
Number One: He's an insecure asshole dealing with deep personal pain, underneath it all.
He's charming to the extreme, which is common with these types, AND IT IS WHY YOUR FRIENDS DON'T "GET IT."
Except, they really really should Get It, and you might rethink how close you want to be with this circle of friends, too.
Side Bar: While I am not dumb enough these days to recommend friendships with people like this anymore, I foolishly briefly supported someone in business who was Bad News to fellow colleagues, and the hot second I saw how fucked up they were, I notified & apologized to my colleagues for my misjudgement. I also made up any financial loss a few folks had doing business with this person because I felt my reputation was that important. I have not misjudged anyone personally or professionally since this happened 3 years ago. I am still generous, but guarded - if that makes sense?
This guy is Sadistic, for sure. Can't say anything about being a psychopath or sociopath.
My saying for things like this?
Happy People Don't Do Bad Things.
This person does Bad Things. He can not be fixed because his world view is tremendously different from a healthy person's perspective.
Lastly...
Yeah. You want to catch yourself the next time a Drama Llama comes along. It's never ever worth it.
Good on you for posting here and not getting too involved. Stay far far away from this guy. He is setting you up for disaster
"Sorry! Too busy to hang out!"
Repeat as necessary:))
posted by jbenben at 9:34 PM on September 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
He's an ass. Sometimes there's no mystery or backstory beyond that. (Or sometimes there is, and it's tedious and stupid and doesn't matter anyway.)
If you don't want to be involved in drama, it is always within your power to decline to be involved in drama. This includes the drama of people asking why you are declining to be involved in drama.
posted by scody at 9:41 PM on September 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you don't want to be involved in drama, it is always within your power to decline to be involved in drama. This includes the drama of people asking why you are declining to be involved in drama.
posted by scody at 9:41 PM on September 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
The person in question equals not a keeper or interesting human being, someone worthy of any sort of time, ergo who cares about him / why?
Why waste brainspace, emotionalangst on idiocy.
Exhibits:
Sidestep the pothole, the time-sink, the "what was I thinking?". Aforementioned person does not count as a growth experience, unless you consider an irritating, emotionally tone-deaf parasite as "growth".
(Hint: don't do it! Imagine yourself at a horror film and you are seeing the random person walking down the stairs into the dark basement, the entire theater warning the feckless character with a chorus of "NOO!!!"s and "DON'T GO DOWN THERE!!!"s at the dramatic irony of it all.)
Listen to some music. Clear the head. Keep dating. Friends help us to be who we are, and help us act in ways aligned with that in which we believe and brings out the best of who we are. This dude is, to put it mildly, not that. And, truly, find something(s)/someone(s) worthy of your precious time and life. Because, really. Why?
No.
posted by simulacra at 1:03 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Why waste brainspace, emotionalangst on idiocy.
Exhibits:
- A) "I was very angry because I did like him and decided he wasn't worth my time. Whatever. His loss.*"
- B) "Yet, in the beginning he also says that he likes his girlfriend alot and asks about the guy I am dating."
- C) "I think this guy is bad news and treating his girlfriend badly."
- D) ad infinitum.
"And you like this adolescent loser because why? Ditch with extreme prejudice and from orbit."Why.
posted by spitbull at 7:55 AM on June 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Sidestep the pothole, the time-sink, the "what was I thinking?". Aforementioned person does not count as a growth experience, unless you consider an irritating, emotionally tone-deaf parasite as "growth".
(Hint: don't do it! Imagine yourself at a horror film and you are seeing the random person walking down the stairs into the dark basement, the entire theater warning the feckless character with a chorus of "NOO!!!"s and "DON'T GO DOWN THERE!!!"s at the dramatic irony of it all.)
Listen to some music. Clear the head. Keep dating. Friends help us to be who we are, and help us act in ways aligned with that in which we believe and brings out the best of who we are. This dude is, to put it mildly, not that. And, truly, find something(s)/someone(s) worthy of your precious time and life. Because, really. Why?
No.
posted by simulacra at 1:03 AM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm going to disagree a little with the consensus here. Some people love flirting and do it all the time. If you are like that you can get into the game of flirting and enjoy it without any intention at all of sleeping with the person being flirted with. Two flirters together can make enjoyable sparks without it progressing any further. I'm saying this as some kind of explanation of why your circle of friends don't think anything of it.
But you don't sound like someone who has ever played this game, and you sound as if you don't like it. So definitely disengage, since it's upsetting you. It isn't something you ought to try and puzzle out, since the guy isn't speaking your language. He's playing a game of tag while you're up for a two-person clapping game. Just as you approach him to start "My mother told me, if I was goody," he taps you, shouts "Tag!" and runs away. Frustrating, eh? But some people would be into psyching him out, getting closer ostensibly for the clapping game and sneakily tagging him first. And running away. Which is fun if you enjoy that sort of thing.
Just disengage. It's not worth your energy in terms of trying to understand it.
posted by glasseyes at 2:13 AM on September 16, 2013
But you don't sound like someone who has ever played this game, and you sound as if you don't like it. So definitely disengage, since it's upsetting you. It isn't something you ought to try and puzzle out, since the guy isn't speaking your language. He's playing a game of tag while you're up for a two-person clapping game. Just as you approach him to start "My mother told me, if I was goody," he taps you, shouts "Tag!" and runs away. Frustrating, eh? But some people would be into psyching him out, getting closer ostensibly for the clapping game and sneakily tagging him first. And running away. Which is fun if you enjoy that sort of thing.
Just disengage. It's not worth your energy in terms of trying to understand it.
posted by glasseyes at 2:13 AM on September 16, 2013
This is not a silly question and you are not a stupid drama llama for being puzzled by this behaviour. Good for you for refusing to accept your friends' assessment of the situation and for continuing to pursue answers when you know something is not right here.
You don't have enough information to know if this person is a sociopath or not. You've seen enough of his behaviour, though, to know that he is bad news. He is playing you and his GF off against each other and he is doing it in a very intentional, calculated way.
I disagree that this is a fun game and the problem is that it just happens not to be fun for you (or his GF, apparently). This doesn't sound like a fun flirtation, it sounds like a mean manipulation. He could be doing it to keep his GF in line (in fact I think that's the simplest explanation), but whatever his motives are, they aren't good.
The question of whether he's a sociopath isn't irrelevant, by the way. If you have ever read Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?" he says that most abusive men are not mentally ill, but that men who cultivate shallow relationships with women, and who try to play them off against each other, are often sociopaths. This is important because sociopaths are dangerous in ways common or garden assholes aren't. So I don't actually think that your question, as posed, is over the top. I just think that none of us can know the answer.
I would do what cairdeas says and grey-rock the guy. I don't think it would be over the top for you to avoid going to events where he's going to be. I also think that you need to take a step back and watch carefully to see if your friends actually have the same values as you. Because from the sounds of it, they either have some not so good values, or their judgement isn't as good as yours, which in turn means they're likely to end up setting booby traps for you whether they mean to or not.
Definitely do not go to dinner with him. Definitely not. And if you do, make sure you don't leave your drink unattended. But that won't be an issue, because you won't be going.
posted by tel3path at 2:31 AM on September 16, 2013 [10 favorites]
You don't have enough information to know if this person is a sociopath or not. You've seen enough of his behaviour, though, to know that he is bad news. He is playing you and his GF off against each other and he is doing it in a very intentional, calculated way.
I disagree that this is a fun game and the problem is that it just happens not to be fun for you (or his GF, apparently). This doesn't sound like a fun flirtation, it sounds like a mean manipulation. He could be doing it to keep his GF in line (in fact I think that's the simplest explanation), but whatever his motives are, they aren't good.
The question of whether he's a sociopath isn't irrelevant, by the way. If you have ever read Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?" he says that most abusive men are not mentally ill, but that men who cultivate shallow relationships with women, and who try to play them off against each other, are often sociopaths. This is important because sociopaths are dangerous in ways common or garden assholes aren't. So I don't actually think that your question, as posed, is over the top. I just think that none of us can know the answer.
I would do what cairdeas says and grey-rock the guy. I don't think it would be over the top for you to avoid going to events where he's going to be. I also think that you need to take a step back and watch carefully to see if your friends actually have the same values as you. Because from the sounds of it, they either have some not so good values, or their judgement isn't as good as yours, which in turn means they're likely to end up setting booby traps for you whether they mean to or not.
Definitely do not go to dinner with him. Definitely not. And if you do, make sure you don't leave your drink unattended. But that won't be an issue, because you won't be going.
posted by tel3path at 2:31 AM on September 16, 2013 [10 favorites]
Hey kiddo, you have learned a valuable lesson and you didn't get your fur singed to do it!
There are folks out there like this. Who knows why? Attention seeking, sex addicts, approval, flirts, whatever. Now you know what it looks like and you can shut it down and redirect the attention in the future.
So no dinner, no further contact and if you're out in a group with him, be cordial but cold.
If he asks, simply say, "I'm not interested in you." If your friends ask, simply say, "Oh, he's alright, but he's not my favorite person."
No need to stir the pot, or to kick up any drama.
Treat yourself to a pedicure for having seen what this dude is about and for moving on like a grown-up!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:00 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
There are folks out there like this. Who knows why? Attention seeking, sex addicts, approval, flirts, whatever. Now you know what it looks like and you can shut it down and redirect the attention in the future.
So no dinner, no further contact and if you're out in a group with him, be cordial but cold.
If he asks, simply say, "I'm not interested in you." If your friends ask, simply say, "Oh, he's alright, but he's not my favorite person."
No need to stir the pot, or to kick up any drama.
Treat yourself to a pedicure for having seen what this dude is about and for moving on like a grown-up!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:00 AM on September 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure if you're still checking the answers here, but I have something to share around distancing yourself. I've had two times that I've needed to distance myself from a member of a group, without leaving the group entirely. In the first instance, I answered every question mutual friends asked around "Why?". I was clear as to the issue. I was candid and upfront. In the second situation, I said, "I've just found that we're not compatible together." Guess which one has been easier? I'm still dogged by questions about the first situation, and it happened 11 years ago. Eleven! Whereas with the second, people just shrugged and said, "oh." and moved on. Non-engaging is really the best policy, unless you think he poses a physical risk to others.
posted by RogueTech at 8:26 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by RogueTech at 8:26 AM on September 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
If he enjoys making his gf feel bad he sounds emotionally immature at best. If your group of friends knows this about him and doesn't have a problem with it or even gets their own schadenfreude from this sort of drama then I'd also question if it's worth it sticking with this group. (Note: people who delight in the suffering of others have been known to flock together.) There are plenty of groups that are mutually supportive, not destructive.
To respond to friends asking why you've closed the door on him you can say something like: "(polite smile) No doubt he has some great qualities or you wouldn't be friends with him. I just barely have enough time for the friends I have now." Segue into this new app that's suppose to help you organize your life, which you really need right now because you're so stressed out about X (and Y and Z). Word will get around your group that you're busy and can't be bothered.
posted by lillian.elmtree at 2:42 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
To respond to friends asking why you've closed the door on him you can say something like: "(polite smile) No doubt he has some great qualities or you wouldn't be friends with him. I just barely have enough time for the friends I have now." Segue into this new app that's suppose to help you organize your life, which you really need right now because you're so stressed out about X (and Y and Z). Word will get around your group that you're busy and can't be bothered.
posted by lillian.elmtree at 2:42 PM on September 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
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He also enjoys it when his girlfriend is upset, which I find strange.
Uh, yeah. I don't think we have to label him as being a "sociopath" to say that he clearly gets a lot of enjoyment out of hurting people/upsetting them/making them jealous. He sounds emotionally sadistic. I once wrote about a guy like that here, a guy who I know very well. He's STILL up to his old tricks, he's done it with even more women since I last wrote that.
I completely agree with you that he sounds like bad, bad news. What I want to know is, what could possibly be the benefit to you of any interaction with him at all? It sounds like there is no up side to any contact with him. I also don't think you can fix him.
posted by cairdeas at 5:31 PM on September 15, 2013 [6 favorites]