Need sex advice: Possible to learn to enjoy dominance/submission?
September 14, 2013 3:47 PM   Subscribe

New to MeFi, so sorry if this is an odd post... I just started dating a guy - let's call him Michael - who has noted several times that he likes to be a little aggressive in the sack (and although we have not yet had sex, this became clear when we made out/fooled around recently... he was pretty man-handly/dominating, did a little dirty talking, etc.). I have next to no experience in even very mild dominance/submission stuff and honestly have never had any interest in it. I can be a good sport and do a little dirty-talking if it's going to make someone's day, but it has always felt too contrived for me to enjoy it for my own sake. And I've never tried anything beyond that. That said, I really like Michael, am very sexually attracted to him, would hate to end things with him prematurely because of an unexplored difference in our sexual styles, and, frankly, couldn't help but feel a little lame/boring/conservative if I put an end to it for that reason. So, my question: as someone who isn't naturally inclined to be interested in dominance/submission, is there a chance I could learn to like it, or is it pretty much something you like or don't?

And how would I go about getting my feet wet without doing anything that's going to take me out of my comfort zone (and please keep in mind that I am still getting to know Michael, so I'm going to need to take it slowly)? And what can I say/do to let Michael know that I don't usually do this stuff but am open to trying it out and seeing if I might actually like it (though there's a chance that I won't)? Any how-to's/advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (29 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

sorta boring advice, but I'd tell him pretty much what you said here. I'm sure he'd just be thrilled that you're open to it.

personally, I feel like you do re dirty talk. I can do that and lighter s&m-y stuff, but I wouldn't be a good fit for someone that really was. but you'll find out whether you're the same way or not.
posted by jpe at 3:59 PM on September 14, 2013 [1 favorite]

That stuff is about trust. Him being aggressive before that trust is established makes me wonder whether he's kinky, or just a jerk.

Talk to him about it. If he can't go slow and teach you what you want to know, then maybe he isn't the right guy for you.
posted by gjc at 4:11 PM on September 14, 2013 [48 favorites]

Yeah, tell him you haven't tried it before but you're open to seeing what it's like.

And maybe just notice if he's equally open to making sure you get to have the experience you want and respecting your boundaries.
posted by bunderful at 4:11 PM on September 14, 2013 [6 favorites]

I'm sure there are "BDSM for Dummies" books and/or sites out there, but here's what's worked for me:

1 -- The more experienced/aggressive person picks one thing he or she wants to try; or the other person picks one thing that he or she is curious about.
2 -- The two of you discuss it, in detail. This can be clinical ("I will do this. Then I will do this. I expect these actions to have these effects on you. I expect them to have these effects on me.") or more fantastical ("And then I'm gonna do this... Oooh, yeah...") -- whatever works for the two of you. In this discussion, the less experienced/aggressive person sets the tone and speed of the discussion, period, and decides when this conversation is over.
3 -- The less experienced/aggressive person decides whether the two of you will or will not do that thing.
4a -- If the answer is "Yes," then you do it. Afterward, you discuss it. Again, the less experienced/aggressive person is in charge of this conversation, and the two of you go from there.
4b -- If the answer is "No," then you don't do it.
5 -- Return to Step 1. You can set your own limits for how long between new things.

I know, it sounds clinical and the exact opposite of sexy. But it will help you raise your mutual levels of trust, and it puts it into a framework where neither of you will feel the other one is being unreasonable or dismissive. Once you've done it a couple of times, you'll be able to streamline the process.
posted by Etrigan at 4:16 PM on September 14, 2013 [7 favorites]

I am not sure why some women do all the adjusting but you should look for signs that HE is also open to what you like. Also agree with GJC-why so soon is he talking about all the aggressive stuff he likes. Has he asked you what YOU like? Is he just fishing to see what your interest are or does he want you to indulge in what He is looking for? Pay attention to see if he is interested in what YOU like and is willing to oblige or explore.

Sex ain't a one way street baby.
posted by ladoo at 4:29 PM on September 14, 2013 [25 favorites]

couldn't help but feel a little lame/boring/conservative if I put an end to it for that reason.

Whoa there anon, there is absolutely nothing lame or boring or in any way bad about not sharing someone's kinks, and do not ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

You can try it out and see if you like it, sure. Please keep in mind, though, that the basic idea of submission isn't going along with shit that makes you uncomfortable.

I would personally be pretty unimpressed by someone of any gender who started trying this out on me without any prior discussion of kinks.
posted by elizardbits at 4:33 PM on September 14, 2013 [34 favorites]

Yes, you can learn to like it with the right person and the right chemistry.

Let him know that you're not used to it yet. If he likes you and wants to have fun sexytimes with you, he will be open to you suggesting that he go a little more gentle to begin with and wait for you to give signals when you are ready for progressively more and more aggression.
posted by joan_holloway at 4:34 PM on September 14, 2013 [1 favorite]

Sounds like if he already started with the aggressive and dirty talking stuff before you've even had sex, he may be the kind of person who will never be content with (or maybe even able to engage in) vanilla sex. I might be wrong, but it feels like a red flag to me. After all, a brand new partner should itself be an exciting thing for him.
posted by Dansaman at 4:43 PM on September 14, 2013 [10 favorites]

It can be helpful to spend some time separately thinking and writing about what you might like. I've done this with both a long-term lover at a time when we were interested in exploring some new things, and with a new lover. You can make lists divided into "I know I like it," "I am curious about it and might like to try it," and "This, I will not do." Then you look at your lists together, and talk it over. It gives you a great starting place and a couple of idea to maybe explore.

It's best to talk this stuff over in detail in advance, in my experience. And for there to be a lot of talk during sex as well: "Is this OK? Can I try this next? Not so hard. Oof, need to stop that, it's really not working for me." I used to think those guidelines for college students that suggested getting explicit consent at every stage were bunkum, but I've come to appreciate a running conversation for check-ins about "is this good, the way I'm touching you" as well as for elements of consent.

During the honest talking stage of things, you can get a really good feel for whether your potential partner is compatible with you sexually, but also whether he's going to be safe and respectful of what you want. I've recently been through this kind of conversation with someone new, and our conversation was full of us saying things to each other like, "I don't want you to feel uncomfortable," and "I'd really like to play this kind of d/s game but I want you to know that I would never take advantage of you in thus-and-such a way," and "Here are some things I absolutely will not do." We were really explicit. And it helped me know that this was a person I could trust.
posted by not that girl at 4:51 PM on September 14, 2013 [1 favorite]

I suggest searching for a BDSM checklist so you know the kinds of things he may be interested in, and the kind of things you may be interested in. Especially look for the things you want to be hard 'never ever do this' limits. And come up with a safeword.

Really, talk about it OUTSIDE of the bedroom, WELL before any kinky play gets started. He wants to play with a novice, so he darn well better work with you to get you to informed consent.

But yeah, no reason you can't enjoy it, or at minimum, do it for his fun. However, if it gets to something you don't want to do, you don't ever, ever have to do it.
posted by Jacen at 5:02 PM on September 14, 2013 [2 favorites]

It's okay to try it. It's okay not to try it too though. It doesn't make you lame or conservative if you aren't kinky. You can explore if you want to, but there is nothing wrong with not wanting to.

Kinky sex or non kinky sex, bdsm or "vanilla", the important thing is the enjoyment of the participants. A lot of the pleasure in sex is the pleasure of giving enjoyment.

Sex has a lot of mental components though, so if you do decide to explore, take some time to figure out what turns you on, beyond the physiological reaction to mechanical friction of the genital region. Once you understand, explain as best you can. Talk, use references (movie scenes perhaps) etc. And ask him what turns him on.

Find out why he likes aggression... is it because he wants you to submit to him? Does he want to struggle and overcome resistance? Does he just like the physical sensation? Ask him about scenes in movies, books, or tv shows that he finds hot, and why.
posted by gryftir at 5:19 PM on September 14, 2013 [1 favorite]

I am not sure why some women do all the adjusting but you should look for signs that HE is also open to what you like.

We don't know if the OP is M or F based on the question.
posted by timpanogos at 5:24 PM on September 14, 2013

OP, there is a vast difference between a mature and respectful adult engaging in mutually agreed upon sexual activity with a knowledgeable and willing partner...and, "manhandling" your partner without prior discussion and consent because you like it rough. As such, you weren't dabbling in BDSM...he was just being a selfish and irresponsible jerk.
posted by Nibiru at 5:26 PM on September 14, 2013 [10 favorites]

The key to a good sexual partnership is to be able to communicate openly about your desires (even if that communication is "I don't know if I would like it but I am open to it"). This is multiplied in kinky situations and that's why a lot of people in kink and BDSM mention trust so often - in order to have a happy sex life, you need to feel like your partner is listening and will take your concerns and feelings into consideration.

So! The first step is to talk to this guy about it and pretty much say what you said here - if he responds that he's willing to introduce you to kink slowly then fuck yeah, carry on; if he reacts negatively in any way (for example: saying you don't need to talk about it/can just do it, or that he doesn't want to baby anyone, or whatever) then you're better off moving on. This is about your needs just as much as it's about his needs and it's really not that difficult to respect someone else's boundaries, so hold fast to that.
posted by buteo at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2013 [1 favorite]

gjc: "That stuff is about trust. Him being aggressive before that trust is established makes me wonder whether he's kinky, or just a jerk."

Exactly my concern. A real Dom would look after their Sub, go only as far as the boundaries they have set together (or until a safeword is used), it should always be within your comfort zone (even if it would look discomfortable from the outside, comfort takes a whole other meaning here).

To answer your question, I do believe that it´s possible to learn to enjoy it (but then not everybody can learn, it´s not for everybody and that is fine, and it can even be unhealthy for some people). However, I don´t think Michael is the partner you should explore it with.
posted by Fermin at 5:47 PM on September 14, 2013 [3 favorites]

I think it depends on what you mean by "manhandling."

Do you get the impression he'd be mean, or perhaps worse, a patronizing loofball?

If not, then go ahead, give it a try. Example of "feet wet": him holding onto your wrists, or YOU holding onto your own wrists. Whack on the butt at opportune moment. What dirty talk, if any, do YOU like?

Don't be intimidated by all these websites with the fancy I Am Kinky lingo. Plenty of people who don't wear collars to WORK to show how broad-minded they are nonetheless have fun with different kinds of stuff.
posted by skbw at 6:09 PM on September 14, 2013

Just wanted to point you to books that might help -- Carol Queen's "Exhibitionism for the shy" and "The bottoming/topping book" (respectively) by Dossie Easton and a coauthor whose name I can't recall. Both interpret BDSM and communication about sexuality for beginners. I got a lot of benefit from both, and I think they'd be good reads even if you never learn to like it. Other than that, nthing discussing with your partner what he gets out of it -- that'll be a big help in determining how involved you want to get and what boundaries you are working with.
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:12 PM on September 14, 2013

Red flag on the play if he's gotten aggressively man-handy BEFORE any sex has happened and/or any sexy times discussion. That's not him being dominant - that's him being an asshole and forcing his way.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:12 PM on September 14, 2013 [9 favorites]

Before you start trying to "get into" whatever he's into, why don't you have an open conversation about what you're *both* into, including things you may or may not be comfortable with, what you've liked in the past, and what you're excited about trying for the first time. What kind of pillow talk do YOU like? What roles do YOU like? This isn't just about him being happy, it's about the two of you finding mutually fun ways to be together.

I think women often feel pressured to get on board with what the dude likes, but it'll be a lot more fun for you if it's a two-way street.

Also, if he's being pretty vocal about his likes and wants and needs this early, my spidey sense tells me he might not be very experienced.
posted by airguitar2 at 6:22 PM on September 14, 2013 [2 favorites]

Red flag on the play if he's gotten aggressively man-handy BEFORE any sex has happened and/or any sexy times discussion. That's not him being dominant - that's him being an asshole and forcing his way.

We have a winner. This is not good/safe dom behavior.
posted by French Fry at 6:27 PM on September 14, 2013 [3 favorites]

I don't agree with folks expressing concerns about the "man-handy"ness. I mean, maybe it's problematic, but there's no way to know from the limited information in the question, and my assumption was it was a type of flirtation and sexual behavior that non-verbally communicates what he's interested in, which seems perfectly fine at the level things are at now, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, to the question at hand: I think the answer to this depends on how central to his sexuality BDSM is.

If this is a guy who is deeply involved in BDSM and doesn't really have vanilla (non-kinky) sex, this could be a pretty challenging set up. Basically, you have one person with one set of sexual interests, and other with a totally different set, with very little cross over.

On the other hand, maybe this is a guy who enjoys some rough sex and dirty talk but also gets down with candlelit lovemakin'. IN which case, there is enough overlap for everyone to be happy and each person to explore some new stuff too.

If I were advising a friend in this situation, I'd loan them a couple SM primer type books. Really good starters are The Bottoming Book and The Topping Book. Other intro books include Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns and SM 101. These kinds of books will give you a realistic sense of what BDSM actually looks like to different people. Reading through these will probably inspire some feelings of revulsion, some of excitement, and some of boredom. Noticing which types of things inspire at least a little excitement will give you some ideas where you and Michael might find crossover - a place to start from that you might have in common.

Ultimately, to resolve this, you both will need to just talk this stuff out. The plus of this is, if the guy is a participant in BDSM subculture, he will find clear communication about sexual interests very familiar and will probably have better skills in this area than many non kinky people.

Unfortunately, there is a real possibility that you will not find common ground sexually. On the other hand, there is an equally real possibility that you will - even if you have a lot of differences.

Even as a kinky person in a kinky relationship with another kinky person, I find that we have a lot of differences. Some of this we can push ourselves and each other on - thereby growing and learning to enjoy more stuff - and some stuff we just won't connect on. For us it works. But the truth is, it wouldn't necessarily for everyone.

Good luck, and I hope you have some fun no matter what happens in the long run.
posted by latkes at 8:29 PM on September 14, 2013 [2 favorites]

Oh, and feel free to send a mefi mail message if you want to talk more about the situation.
posted by latkes at 8:35 PM on September 14, 2013

Ask if he's willing to go to a kink class with you. This does two things: 1) gives you a safe space to see what you like, 2) shows whether he's up for communication.
posted by zippy at 9:35 PM on September 14, 2013 [1 favorite]

My only real thought is that it is completely, totally, okay if you end up not being into it. I dated someone with a different kink and he kept trying to convince me that there was something wrong with me, because I didn't like it. We had great "vanilla" sex, but we weren't sexually compatible otherwise. Cest la vie.

No matter what happens OP, if you aren't down, don't pretend and don't feel bad about it. I really wish someone had told me this five years ago.
posted by sm1tten at 11:28 PM on September 14, 2013 [2 favorites]

From an anonymous commenter:
I was once in a similar situation to you. I had *heard* of BDSM and could maybe tell you what two of the letters stood for, but I'd never experienced being tied up or anything like that. Then I met someone who was into it. TLDR, I tried it, liked it, and later we broke up for unrelated reasons. I still fantasise about trying it again. I'm happy with vanilla, but now I just like a little chocolate and raspberry sauce mixed in.

I want to start this by saying that there is NOTHING WRONG with not liking something in the bedroom. Sex is a pretty vulnerable act anyway, even at a vanilla level. When you start mixing in other things, it can get fun quite quickly, or not fun quite quickly. There is nothing lame or boring or conservative in not wanting to try something new. There are lots of things that I haven't tried that I never will because just the thought of them makes my skin crawl. That doesn't make me (or you) a bad person, it just means that I'm not up for A, B or C. It would be harmful to my feeling of self to engage in such things, even though other people really like them. A, B and C are great *for those other people*. There's a thing in the alternative-sex community called Your Kink Is Not My Kink But That's OK. It's about respecting what another person likes, without wanting to engage in it oneself. Also, maybe think of kinks as being on a continuum, from like, to neutral, to dislike. Like is something that you actively want to do, neutral is something that you don't really care for, or something that you'd do for a partner because they really want it but that doesn't turn you on (you re under NO pressure to actually do this!) and dislike is stuff that is a hard limit and will never be consented to.

Back to your questions. Before I met Sam, the Kinky Person, I'd never really thought about kinky sex. I'd never wondered what it might be like to actually *do*, even though I'd wondered what it was that actually went on. I'd never mentally put myself in the place of someone who was tied up (Sam's kink was bondage mixed up with D/s type stuff), mainly because the thought of being tied up was kinda alarming to me. I'm not claustrophobic, but I'd had tight sweaters stuck on my face, for example, or had people pin me when roughhousing with friends, and that just wasn't pleasant. Sam suggested I be cuffed and tied, and although I was initially hesitant, I was reassured that they could come off at any time and I would be released. So I tried it, and actually enjoyed it. One thing I wasn't prepared for was how my brain would react. My body obviously liked what was going on - the feeling of voluntarily giving up power and agency to another person was very exciting - but it wasn't like normal vanilla sex. Part of my brain was saying Yes and part was saying No. I rode it out, wanting to give it a fair shot, and the part that said Yes won out. I went into it thinking that if nothing else, it would be a learning experience. I trusted Sam and we took it nice and slowly. First my ankles, then a hand. We never progressed to fully tying me up, because we broke up not long after. I got more and more excited about being cuffed as time went on. If you do try it, don't think that your first experience is how it will always be. Your brain is making new connections when you engage in a new activity and it can take some time to settle down. That said, if you're sliding towards dislike on the continuum, call a halt to the play. Don't try to power through something if you know you're not feeling it. Respect the limits that you set for yourself and also those that your body sets for you.

Regarding getting your feet wet, I'd suggest thinking about something that you like doing, then adding a twist to it. Do this on your own at first, so you're in complete control. Lets say that you like having sex in the missionary position. Maybe try masturbating in the doggy style position. Or tie your feet to the corners of your bed with a couple of scarves. Or shuffle your butt up against a wall so your legs are in the air. Or get some of the exercise ankle weights and put them on. Do something different to what you'd normally do and see how you feel. There are degrees of being outside of your comfort zone. You don't have to take a full on paddling to see if you like having your butt swatted at. You can even swat your own butt a few times to see if you like it. Keep in mind, though, that swatting your own butt is different to having someone else swat it for you. When you do it, you know when the hand is coming, how hard it's going to hit and where it's going to hit. You could show Michael how you like it (presuming that you actually do) when you know how, which can be a safer way of easing into something like that than just saying "spank me". One person's hard is another person's soft. I get the impression with Michael that that's going to be the case with him.

Make telling him that you're open to ideas part of a conversation about what you both like in bed. He needs to know what you like, so he can do it for you, like you need to know what he likes so you can do it for him. Of course, this hinges on the fact that you're both into what the other person likes to do. If you like only vanilla, and he doesn't like vanilla at all, then you're eating from different bowls and this isn't going to be a very fun shared pudding. Be explicitly clear with him that you've not tried anything like this before and haven't really considered it. You want to know more about what he likes, how it works, how it makes him feel, etc. Then, explain to him what you like. Watch Michael very closely during this conversation - his body language, the words he uses, the expressions on his face. Your gut will tell you what is going on with him. Is he being respectful of your limits, or is he testing them? Is he interested in what you like? Is he asking you questions about your soft and hard limits? Does he mention safewords? Are there things that he dislikes and won't do? Is he telling you about them? You're considering sex act A - has he suggested ways that you could ease into it, or things that you can do that are similar, or whatnot? Would he be OK with just vanilla sex or is he going to pressure you for something more by forcing your hands over your head and holding them there during sex? Basically, is he seeing you as a person and not a sex toy that he can do whatever he wants to, to? If you're going to put yourself in vulnerable positions with this person, then make absolutely sure that they can be trusted. If you're not 100% sure that they can, then don't make yourself vulnerable with them. Think of this conversation being something akin to a job interview. Can this person do the job you want them to do? Are they going to turn up on time? Do they have the necessary skills to foo the widget or are they going to start goofing off? As the more experienced person, it's his responsibility to ensure that you have all of the facts at your disposal. If he doesn't give you what you need - the facts - then don't progress any further. Of course, have this conversation in a non-sexually-charged situation. Any little bit of being turned on will skew things.

I had a mostly good experience with Sam. Some things that stick out in my mind are that boundaries were not always discussed beforehand - Sam gave me the impression that I would be tied up, but on one occasion, Sam demanded that I tie them up, without telling me their safeword. They also were hinting at a D/s type relationship, but when I questioned them about it, they didn't even know who would be the D and who would be the s. On occasion, I would say that something was uncomfortable and would then be shrugged off. I was a complete noob to kinky stuff back then, so I wasn't 100% sure of what was and wasn't OK. Now, if someone didn't absolutely respect my boundaries 100%, playtime would be over instantly. And I'd likely be getting dressed and getting out of there. People make mistakes - maybe they pull the tie a little too tight. It's how they react to those mistakes that's key. Do they ridicule or ignore you when you say "this isn't OK"? Big red flag.

If I'm honest, I didn't see the problem with Michael's aggressive behaviour on reading your post. On reading the comments, though, I've changed my mind. Michael is introducing a dynamic to your relationship without preparing you for it or even asking if it's OK. It might just be his way of letting you know that he likes rough sex. Were I in your shoes, though, I would tread carefully with this guy. If he's going to use his hands to communicate, rather than his words, then you might find yourself in a situation you don't want to be in with no way of getting out of it. I don't mean to scare you by saying that. But if he doesn't respect you enough to say the sentence "I like rough sex and dirty talking" and most importantly of all ask the question "is that OK with you?", then you might want to hold back about things. That's why I suggested earlier that you pay attention and trust your gut when having The Conversation with him. If he baulks at taking your time or talking first or even, god forbid, ridicules you in some way for not being what he wants, literally run away. If he can't be trusted to use his words and ask, he definitely can't be trusted to stop when you use your safeword.

Kink can be a lot of fun. When the floodgates open, you might be a little bit surprised at what you find out about yourself. Please don't mistake my appeal to caution as a sign that you shouldn't try it. Just tread carefully with someone who knows the path and respects the boundaries both of it and you. And if you ever decide that it's not for you, even before you even come close to trying it, that's completely OK. You're under no obligation to anyone but yourself. Always remember that.

You might find this previous Ask helpful. It's got several resources that will help you gain an understanding of the world of kink.

Follow up with the mods via the contact form if you'd like to chat over email or whathaveyou.
posted by taz at 4:25 AM on September 15, 2013 [2 favorites]

I don't see anything wrong with him testing the scope of your interest without talking about it. With moving you both along in the moment. How does that make him an asshole? The asshole part is if you say or indicate stop and he deliberately (or stupidly) doesn't pick up your cues and slow or stop his roll. Then comes a conversation. Testing, moving it along, getting manhandle-y -- some partners like it that way. Some people don't want to talk about it.
posted by thinkpiece at 5:42 AM on September 15, 2013

The absence of "No" is not "Yes".
posted by Solomon at 8:08 AM on September 15, 2013 [4 favorites]

When it comes to things like this, trust is a MUST.

Part of the whole scene comes from knowing it is safe to abrogate responsibility (as a bottom) or take all the responsibility (as a top). I am a switch so I have been on both sides. (And I am not going to lie, there were times as a top when I was SOOOOOO close, but stopped because my play partner called their safe word. (And yes, I was responsible enough as a top to even set up safe signals in case the playmate was in a situation when they could not clearly speak, or, when we were in a scene where protestation and begging for mercy were part of the fun.))

Also, sexyfuntimes do not have to be all kink or all normal. An ex of mine and I used to semi-jokingly refer to chocolate (kink), vanilla (non-kink), and swirl.

"So, what are you up for tonight?"

"I think some swirl would be lovely."
posted by Samizdata at 9:11 AM on September 15, 2013 [1 favorite]

as someone who isn't naturally inclined to be interested in dominance/submission, is there a chance I could learn to like it, or is it pretty much something you like or don't?

There are many, many different activities in that to like or not like. You might be willing to try some of them and see how you like them. Some things might be interesting to do with one person but not another person. There are BDSM checklists which can be useful for figuring out what you might try and what you don't want to try.

he was pretty man-handly/dominating, did a little dirty talking

It's not clear what happened here exactly, but if at any point he is pushing you beyond what you are comfortable with without any discussion or you feel that things are happening without your active consent this might not be someone you want to be around.

And what can I say/do to let Michael know that I don't usually do this stuff but am open to trying it out and seeing if I might actually like it (though there's a chance that I won't)?

"Michael, I don't have much experience with being dominated or manhandled, but I'm interested in trying some things out as long as we can discuss what to try beforehand. I'm excited to try something new and see if I might like it."

Anyone who would have some sort of problem with you not liking a new thing you tried is probably not a person you want to be dating, whether that thing is talking dirty or Bolivian cuisine.
posted by yohko at 7:13 AM on September 16, 2013

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