first traffic violation ticket-- should I get a lawyer?
August 30, 2013 7:22 PM Subscribe
I got a ticket for "disobeying traffic control device" for $138 and 2 points on my license. I've only ever had parking tickets in the past so I don't know if I'm supposed to fight this or what?
I had no idea I was doing anything wrong, in fact I did the thing RIGHT IN FRONT OF A COP that's how fine I thought it was, but apparently it wasn't because he pulled me over. He wouldn't let me explain myself for even a millisecond or make eye contact and I'm still a little unclear about what exactly I did. There was an overpass thing in the middle of a parkway (?) where you can make left turns from. I missed the turn and my navigation said to make the left turn at the next opportunity, which was directly from my lane, cutting through the overpass. There were no cars in the middle section so I didn't even realize what its purpose was. I've also never driven in an area that had these before.
The cop did say that the traffic light (where I turned left) displayed a green arrow pointing straight. I could've sworn it was just a regular green light but I may be mistaken so I don't know if I should even bring that up in my defense. There were two ambiguous signs right next to each other, one that read "LEFT TURNS ONLY" and the other "NO LEFT TURNS." I assumed that my lane was the turning lane. In retrospect I realize mine must've been the no left turns lane, and left turns only was for the overpass (I think). But why the hell was there an opening to turn into if turns are not allowed!? Why not just section off that side of the overpass?
Anyway, to try to fight this ticket I'll have to set up a court date, which will take 5 weeks minimum for the state to process and the cop will be there. I feel like I will sound like a babbling idiot if I try to convey my defenses, and I'm getting the sense that honesty isn't necessarily the best policy when it comes to these things. Plus I reeeeally loathe this cop and I'm worried about getting a little emotional in his presence.
-Should I get a lawyer? Will a lawyer cost me a fortune?
-Is 2 points on my license a big deal? Is there another way to get them taken off that's cheaper?
Obviously I have a lot of resentment towards this police officer and am extremely bitter because I'm A Good Person who made an honest F-ing mistake. So I'm erring on the side of seeking revenge via a lawyer who can explain my stupid defense in a smarter way. But also I'm in a haze about what my rights were at the time of the ticket/what they are now/if I'm totally guilty/if this is even worth fighting for. FWIW, I don't have several hundreds of dollars lying around waiting to be spent on a traffic attorney. However, if it's in my best interest, I'll find a way. I want to be logical about this. Help!
I had no idea I was doing anything wrong, in fact I did the thing RIGHT IN FRONT OF A COP that's how fine I thought it was, but apparently it wasn't because he pulled me over. He wouldn't let me explain myself for even a millisecond or make eye contact and I'm still a little unclear about what exactly I did. There was an overpass thing in the middle of a parkway (?) where you can make left turns from. I missed the turn and my navigation said to make the left turn at the next opportunity, which was directly from my lane, cutting through the overpass. There were no cars in the middle section so I didn't even realize what its purpose was. I've also never driven in an area that had these before.
The cop did say that the traffic light (where I turned left) displayed a green arrow pointing straight. I could've sworn it was just a regular green light but I may be mistaken so I don't know if I should even bring that up in my defense. There were two ambiguous signs right next to each other, one that read "LEFT TURNS ONLY" and the other "NO LEFT TURNS." I assumed that my lane was the turning lane. In retrospect I realize mine must've been the no left turns lane, and left turns only was for the overpass (I think). But why the hell was there an opening to turn into if turns are not allowed!? Why not just section off that side of the overpass?
Anyway, to try to fight this ticket I'll have to set up a court date, which will take 5 weeks minimum for the state to process and the cop will be there. I feel like I will sound like a babbling idiot if I try to convey my defenses, and I'm getting the sense that honesty isn't necessarily the best policy when it comes to these things. Plus I reeeeally loathe this cop and I'm worried about getting a little emotional in his presence.
-Should I get a lawyer? Will a lawyer cost me a fortune?
-Is 2 points on my license a big deal? Is there another way to get them taken off that's cheaper?
Obviously I have a lot of resentment towards this police officer and am extremely bitter because I'm A Good Person who made an honest F-ing mistake. So I'm erring on the side of seeking revenge via a lawyer who can explain my stupid defense in a smarter way. But also I'm in a haze about what my rights were at the time of the ticket/what they are now/if I'm totally guilty/if this is even worth fighting for. FWIW, I don't have several hundreds of dollars lying around waiting to be spent on a traffic attorney. However, if it's in my best interest, I'll find a way. I want to be logical about this. Help!
seeking revenge via a lawyer
That's kind of a dumb way to approach this. Instead you should tell us (1) what you were cited for, and (2) where it happened. Please give the exact statute written on the citation, and describe the location using street names. Then maybe someone from the area can tell you what's going on.
posted by ryanrs at 7:38 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
That's kind of a dumb way to approach this. Instead you should tell us (1) what you were cited for, and (2) where it happened. Please give the exact statute written on the citation, and describe the location using street names. Then maybe someone from the area can tell you what's going on.
posted by ryanrs at 7:38 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Two points isn't that big of a deal (in the absence of other points), but it could easily be no points if you show up.
I'm sure it depends on where you are, but I've been lucky enough to attend traffic court in districts that appear to be incredibly lenient (inefficient?).
posted by nobejen at 7:39 PM on August 30, 2013
I'm sure it depends on where you are, but I've been lucky enough to attend traffic court in districts that appear to be incredibly lenient (inefficient?).
posted by nobejen at 7:39 PM on August 30, 2013
This is what I would do: show up to court nicely dressed, be very polite and tell the judge that you did not know that what you did was wrong, and now that you know, you won't do it again. I got my speeding ticket dismissed and only had to pay court costs. I was "under supervision" for a year, meaning that if I got any other tickets, I'd have to pay this one retroactively.
But I was a white girl in the suburbs, which is like playing at the easiest level when it comes to these things. YMMV.
posted by desjardins at 7:57 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
But I was a white girl in the suburbs, which is like playing at the easiest level when it comes to these things. YMMV.
posted by desjardins at 7:57 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Obviously I have a lot of resentment towards this police officer and am extremely bitter because I'm A Good Person who made an honest F-ing mistake.
The ticket wasn't for you being a bad person. It sounds like the ticket was for making an illegal left turn. It isn't entirely clear what the traffic setup was or what you did, but it sounds like the leftmost lane was for left turns only and the next lane over (which you were in?) was only for going straight. When navigation says to make the left at the next opportunity, it usually means at the next safe and legal opportunity, not right this instant.
I think that the cheapest, easiest and least stressful way to deal with this is to pay the ticket and then take online traffic school to get a point off of your license.
I think the next best thing to do is to go to court and explain what happened to the judge, but that may be more stressful for you. You don't need to pay a lawyer to fight a $138 ticket.
Also, honesty is the best policy for court.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:18 PM on August 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
The ticket wasn't for you being a bad person. It sounds like the ticket was for making an illegal left turn. It isn't entirely clear what the traffic setup was or what you did, but it sounds like the leftmost lane was for left turns only and the next lane over (which you were in?) was only for going straight. When navigation says to make the left at the next opportunity, it usually means at the next safe and legal opportunity, not right this instant.
I think that the cheapest, easiest and least stressful way to deal with this is to pay the ticket and then take online traffic school to get a point off of your license.
I think the next best thing to do is to go to court and explain what happened to the judge, but that may be more stressful for you. You don't need to pay a lawyer to fight a $138 ticket.
Also, honesty is the best policy for court.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:18 PM on August 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
Best answer: many jurisdictions offer the option of traffic school to make the points on your license/insurance premium hikes go away. you'll still have to pay the fine.
posted by bruce at 8:20 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by bruce at 8:20 PM on August 30, 2013
Obviously I have a lot of resentment towards this police officer and am extremely bitter because I'm A Good Person who made an honest F-ing mistake.
The ticket is not a referendum on your decency as a human being or the honesty of your effing mistake. Lots of good people get tickets for making honest mistakes; I've had a couple, as has virtually everyone else I know. I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't go to court, but I am saying that it's not logical to let some overblown sense of having been personally wronged be the driving (sorry) force behind your decision-making process.
posted by scody at 8:51 PM on August 30, 2013 [9 favorites]
The ticket is not a referendum on your decency as a human being or the honesty of your effing mistake. Lots of good people get tickets for making honest mistakes; I've had a couple, as has virtually everyone else I know. I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't go to court, but I am saying that it's not logical to let some overblown sense of having been personally wronged be the driving (sorry) force behind your decision-making process.
posted by scody at 8:51 PM on August 30, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: You do not get a lawyer over $138. It costs $350 to talk to a lawyer, before they actually do anything. Pay the ticket and move on.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 8:54 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 8:54 PM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Can you update this post with a link to Google Maps, showing where this intersection is?
posted by sbutler at 9:05 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by sbutler at 9:05 PM on August 30, 2013
Best answer: I suspect there was a police officer stationed there because they've figured out that a lot of people will make your mistake out of confusion and ignorance, and it's a revenue generator for them.
From your description, the signs are difficult to interpret and ambiguous, and if public safety were the primary concern, they'd amend the signage to warn people and reduce the number of violations, but then they wouldn't collect as much in fines.
The police officer wouldn't meet your eyes or let you get a word in because he knows it's a setup, and has enough integrity left to be a little ashamed of himself, I'd say.
The wisest course is to pay this and move on, as tylerkaraszewski suggests, but if you really want to make an issue of it, go back there at about the same time you got stopped and observe for a couple of hours. If there are a lot of tickets being written, complain to your political representative and then go to the news media.
If you're really lucky, shit will hit the fan before your court date, and you'll have an excellent defense.
posted by jamjam at 10:17 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
From your description, the signs are difficult to interpret and ambiguous, and if public safety were the primary concern, they'd amend the signage to warn people and reduce the number of violations, but then they wouldn't collect as much in fines.
The police officer wouldn't meet your eyes or let you get a word in because he knows it's a setup, and has enough integrity left to be a little ashamed of himself, I'd say.
The wisest course is to pay this and move on, as tylerkaraszewski suggests, but if you really want to make an issue of it, go back there at about the same time you got stopped and observe for a couple of hours. If there are a lot of tickets being written, complain to your political representative and then go to the news media.
If you're really lucky, shit will hit the fan before your court date, and you'll have an excellent defense.
posted by jamjam at 10:17 PM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm with jamjam on the future strategy, but there's really no way to figure out what happened from your description.
posted by rhizome at 10:47 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by rhizome at 10:47 PM on August 30, 2013
This is a bit of a tough love response. I mean no offense- I feel I'm telling you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.
I understand that tickets can be frustrating. You were confused, you may not have been having a good day, et cetera. It happens to many of us. Obviously you are a good person and you didn't mean to do something dangerous.
However, your response sounds quite immature.
You made an illegal left turn. Illegal left turns are one of the most dangerous actions you can take at an intersection. An officer rightfully pulled you over and wrote you a ticket, something which he has the authority to do.
You seem to want to blame anything and everything but yourself for not reading lane markings and signs properly. Frankly, they don't sound all that confusing as you describe them. You were probably paying too much attention to your navigation system and not enough to the road.
Instead, your post entirely focuses on how you hate the cop and how you were tricked. Nowhere in your post do you accept responsibility. "Seeking revenge?" That sounds very childish to me.
Pay your fine and move on, and look into traffic school to get rid of your points. Recognize that you blew it. It's ok, life goes on, you will live another day. Next time, if traveling in an area that is very unfamiliar to you, try scouting it out on Google maps beforehand, rather than purely relying on navigation systems.
posted by Old Man McKay at 11:45 PM on August 30, 2013 [17 favorites]
I understand that tickets can be frustrating. You were confused, you may not have been having a good day, et cetera. It happens to many of us. Obviously you are a good person and you didn't mean to do something dangerous.
However, your response sounds quite immature.
You made an illegal left turn. Illegal left turns are one of the most dangerous actions you can take at an intersection. An officer rightfully pulled you over and wrote you a ticket, something which he has the authority to do.
You seem to want to blame anything and everything but yourself for not reading lane markings and signs properly. Frankly, they don't sound all that confusing as you describe them. You were probably paying too much attention to your navigation system and not enough to the road.
Instead, your post entirely focuses on how you hate the cop and how you were tricked. Nowhere in your post do you accept responsibility. "Seeking revenge?" That sounds very childish to me.
Pay your fine and move on, and look into traffic school to get rid of your points. Recognize that you blew it. It's ok, life goes on, you will live another day. Next time, if traveling in an area that is very unfamiliar to you, try scouting it out on Google maps beforehand, rather than purely relying on navigation systems.
posted by Old Man McKay at 11:45 PM on August 30, 2013 [17 favorites]
Sorry, but I agree with all the above: pay the ticket and move on. You really are over-reacting, what with "I'm a good person" and 'loathing' the officer and 'seeking revenge'.
Go to traffic court if you want to try fighting this, but hiring a lawyer is unnecessary and far more expensive than the ticket is. Plus if you lose anyway, then you'd have to pay for the lawyer PLUS the ticket.
The person who receives a ticket doesn't "set up a court date": if you choose to dispute it, THEY will tell YOU when & where, not the other way around.
Honesty very much IS the best policy: lying will only dig you in deeper. Either pay the ticket or go to court and tell nothing but the truth --- don't tick off the judge, because they can INCREASE the fine if you do.
If you erred (making a left turn from a straight-only lane, apparently), there's no need nor reason for the officer to 'let you explain for even a millisecond': you disobeyed the traffic device (the traffic light) and that's all there is to that. Saying your 'navigation device' told you to make a left turn will not matter; GPS has been known to direct people to drive into lakes or the wrong way down one-way streets, and the legal assumption is that the driver is supposed to be paying attention to what he's doing where.
"Why the hell was there an opening to turn into if turns are not allowed" --- what the heck do you want, five-foot-tall concrete walls between each and every lane, making them into cattle chutes you can't possibly move out of?!? Take responsibility for your actions; pay the ticket or go to court, but don't blame the officer because you chose to make an illegal turn.
For what it's worth, next time you get pulled over? Try polite, friendly & apologetic instead of aggressive and self-rightous.
posted by easily confused at 2:57 AM on August 31, 2013 [3 favorites]
Go to traffic court if you want to try fighting this, but hiring a lawyer is unnecessary and far more expensive than the ticket is. Plus if you lose anyway, then you'd have to pay for the lawyer PLUS the ticket.
The person who receives a ticket doesn't "set up a court date": if you choose to dispute it, THEY will tell YOU when & where, not the other way around.
Honesty very much IS the best policy: lying will only dig you in deeper. Either pay the ticket or go to court and tell nothing but the truth --- don't tick off the judge, because they can INCREASE the fine if you do.
If you erred (making a left turn from a straight-only lane, apparently), there's no need nor reason for the officer to 'let you explain for even a millisecond': you disobeyed the traffic device (the traffic light) and that's all there is to that. Saying your 'navigation device' told you to make a left turn will not matter; GPS has been known to direct people to drive into lakes or the wrong way down one-way streets, and the legal assumption is that the driver is supposed to be paying attention to what he's doing where.
"Why the hell was there an opening to turn into if turns are not allowed" --- what the heck do you want, five-foot-tall concrete walls between each and every lane, making them into cattle chutes you can't possibly move out of?!? Take responsibility for your actions; pay the ticket or go to court, but don't blame the officer because you chose to make an illegal turn.
For what it's worth, next time you get pulled over? Try polite, friendly & apologetic instead of aggressive and self-rightous.
posted by easily confused at 2:57 AM on August 31, 2013 [3 favorites]
If you do go to court, revisit the location and have a good look around first; take note what lane you were in, where you turned, what the signage and lights were exactly, etc. Write it all down. You want your explanation to the judge to be much, much less vague and rambly than it was here.
posted by ook at 4:47 AM on August 31, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by ook at 4:47 AM on August 31, 2013 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't hire a lawyer, but I would show up. I've been to traffic court as a witness and seen judges reducing charges left and right just to keep the cases moving through. Maybe you'll get lucky.
posted by griseus at 7:11 AM on August 31, 2013
posted by griseus at 7:11 AM on August 31, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks guys. I don't remember the street but it was in Brooklyn and it was NOT a typical intersection with turn/non-turn lanes. There was a structure built in the middle held up on large poles with something (like a sidewalk) separating my left-most lane with the middle "turn" area that was under the overpass. On the opposite side of the overpass there were cars coming in the opposite direction. I realize my explanation sucks, sorry.
I didn't mean to come off as immature and please take the "good person" talk with a grain of salt-- I'm frustrated because I WAS polite, friendly, and apologetic to the cop but he treated me like I was the scum of the earth.
I've never been in this situation before so forgive me for taking it a bit personally.
Anyway, my question has been answered. I'm not getting a lawyer. Online traffic school it is.
posted by DayTripper at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2013
I didn't mean to come off as immature and please take the "good person" talk with a grain of salt-- I'm frustrated because I WAS polite, friendly, and apologetic to the cop but he treated me like I was the scum of the earth.
I've never been in this situation before so forgive me for taking it a bit personally.
Anyway, my question has been answered. I'm not getting a lawyer. Online traffic school it is.
posted by DayTripper at 8:31 AM on August 31, 2013
You don't get a lawyer over a $138 fee, but what about your insurance?
posted by ziggly at 10:50 AM on August 31, 2013
posted by ziggly at 10:50 AM on August 31, 2013
You wouldn't go to court exactly in Brooklyn, you'd go to the Traffic Violations Bureau.
I've never fought a traffic ticket in Kings County, so I have no idea what it is like there. You might want to ask around if you know anyone who has. Some counties (like mine in Nassau) will reduce the charges if you show up--no lawyers or court dates with the officer issuing the ticket necessary. Consider yourself EXTREMELY LUCKY if you're able to do this.
posted by inertia at 11:51 PM on August 31, 2013
I've never fought a traffic ticket in Kings County, so I have no idea what it is like there. You might want to ask around if you know anyone who has. Some counties (like mine in Nassau) will reduce the charges if you show up--no lawyers or court dates with the officer issuing the ticket necessary. Consider yourself EXTREMELY LUCKY if you're able to do this.
posted by inertia at 11:51 PM on August 31, 2013
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posted by sanka at 7:37 PM on August 30, 2013 [13 favorites]