Taking my teenage autistic brother out for dinner, what should we do?

August 26, 2013 7:36 PM

My well-meaning boyfriend offered to take my 18-year-old autistic brother with very low social skills out for dinner to celebrate his graduation. We're not sure what to talk about with him.

My boyfriend generously volunteered us to take my 18-year-old brother out for a graduation dinner since nobody else is going to Then about five minutes after making the invitation, he exhausted all the usual conversation topics. We're still going to take him out, but neither of us are quite sure how to keep a conversation going with him.

N is a sweet kid, but his conversation skills are extremely limited. As a kid, he would memorize facts and recite them to people when he wanted to be in the conversation. He had two years of social skills classes and got trained out of that, but he is not much of a contributor to the interactions. Boyfriend has already explored several topics with him:

- Video games (N only plays one, and it isn't one with a storyline or anything boyfriend can relate to)
- School (he is in a program for next year but it has not started yet so he didn't have much to say)
- Friends, social life (N likes 'just hanging out')

It was like every time we tried to start a conversation, he had a one-word answer and that was it! He is a nice kid but given the age difference (I am 18 years older than he is and we have never lived together) I don't have much to go on either. He seems happy that we offered to take him out (he confirmed it with me about 7 times before we left the party; he does seem to repeat things when he has nothing left to say) and we're happy to do it. But I'm not really sure how to get the conversation going and keep everyone comfortable. Any suggestions?

posted by JoannaC to Human Relations (37 answers total)

Other folks will have tips about how to keep the conversation going, or how to feel comfortable just letting it be a little quieter than usual, but I have a bit of a different suggestion: can you go to a pub or casual restaurant, where you can play a game at the same time? Something he already knows but enjoys?

Or can you go somewhere with an activity?
- Brazilian steakhouse, the kind where they bring food by on giant skewers
- somewhere with a buffet
- somewhere with a view of something - a water, city, on a rotating restaurant on the top of a tower
- boat cruise with dinner
- another activity he enjoys

Basically, can you build more conversation/interaction into the dinner somehow?
posted by barnone at 7:45 PM on August 26, 2013 [16 favorites]

I would also suggest that modeling for him how conversations work wouldn't be a bad thing. As in, don't worry about him talking so much as long as you guys are talking and he could join in if he had something to say.
posted by bleep at 7:46 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]

If there is a lull in the conversation such that you're feeling awkward, talk with your boyfriend about something. Not like private coupley stuff, but just general conversation, as if you are people who are able to talk to one another. Your brother can join in--or not--as he sees fit.

I'm not autistic or even on the spectrum, but it would make me really tired and stressed having to be THE center of conversation for 100% of a dinner. That's a lot of pressure to put on the kid, autistic or not. Just go and be yourselves, and let him see you being yourselves.

On preview, I like barnone's suggestion of going somewhere where there's also something else happening.
posted by phunniemee at 7:48 PM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]

Your question is built on the notion that conversation is necessary. Is it? Is conversation necessary for N to feel comfortable, or just for you to feel comfortable? Couldn't you just be relaxed and try to express that you're relaxed, then go with the flow, talking a bit with N when/if he tosses something out, and occasionally tossing something out yourselves with no worries if it goes nowhere? It seems you need to find a comfortable vibe with N no matter what the conversation does. I am in no way comparing N to a dog or cat, but when I spend time with dogs and cats we obviously have verbal conversation difficulties yet we always seem to simply enjoy sharing a moment in time together, feeling the same experience, place, and setting, and this is a simple and valuable thing to share.
posted by Shane at 7:48 PM on August 26, 2013 [28 favorites]

Maybe it's as simple as, your brother wants to be included, get to be with people he likes/loves, get to be invited to participate even if he doesn't have anything at the moment to say. Maybe it's OK for you and your SO to do most of the talking (you have each other to talk to, which is helpful), and let N "just hang out." You can invite him to offer his opinion or share his experience with questions, and if he abstains, just acknowledge him and leave it at that.

It sounds like he's looking forward to it, so I think he'll enjoy the evening regardless.
posted by overeducated_alligator at 7:48 PM on August 26, 2013 [12 favorites]

Here are some "fun" dinner conversation things my family used to do. We spent hours on this.

(1) The encyclopedia game. Everyone learns an obscure fact or two from the encyclopedia ahead of time, then you try to stump each other. "What's the average wingspan of an albatross? You don't know? I do!!! Guess!" The person whose guess is closest goes next. Or you could just take turns. At a restaurant you may want to bring a single reference volume to refer to.

(2) The map game. Place a large detailed map of the world on or near the table. Find a feature on the map. The goal is to find something the other people had not noticed before so it takes as long as possible. The other people present take turns guessing what you are thinking of and interrogating you 20 questions style. The person who guesses right picks next.

Since this is a celebration for your brother, if he's more comfortable with not having a normal conversation maybe that is okay. Maybe this would be a good time to let him regale you with Interesting Facts.
posted by steinwald at 7:52 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]

Actually... for the encyclopedia game it is essential for everyone to have about five minutes with the encyclopedia in between rounds. Maybe you would need to bring three reference books.
posted by steinwald at 8:00 PM on August 26, 2013

We use the app The "Art of Conversation". The kids version is free and pretty good for simple, engaging, adult conversations.
posted by taff at 8:03 PM on August 26, 2013

Does he have a "special interest?" Were the facts he memorized around a specific subject? Maybe you could talk about that, or play a game around it (e.g. an alphabet geography game, go round robin naming countries or cities that begin with each letter of the alphabet).

Do you have access to family photos? It might be neat to show him some of your baby / kid pictures and maybe talk about how some things are the same and some have changed between your childhood and his.
posted by charmcityblues at 8:09 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]

Talk to your parents and find out what else your brother is into?
posted by nooneyouknow at 8:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]

You and your boyfriend may think the conversation topics are exhausted, but does your brother? He sounds quite comfortable with the repetitive and familiar, and maybe he'll have thought of more/deeper answers in the meanwhile.
posted by teremala at 8:19 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yeah, there's no reason why you have to talk the whole time. I don't see why a nice quiet dinner wouldn't be perfectly fine, as long as you guys are relaxed and don't make him feel like something is wrong. From time to time you can say things like, "It's so nice to spend time with you" and "what a nice evening this is" so that he is reassured if he is worried.
posted by cairdeas at 8:19 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]

Take him to a place where he loves the food. Enjoy him enjoying himself eating his favorite meal. That's it. I really think you're trying to apply your norms for what a good dinner date are to him and that's just not even remotely realistic. Just do your best to make him comfortable and happy and that will be just fine.
posted by inturnaround at 8:25 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]

Give him a copy of Penn & Teller's "How to Play with Your Food" and you won't have to worry about what to talk about during dinner.
posted by Sophont at 8:32 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]

Speaking as someone with relatives on the spectrum: Your brother isn't going to mind the conversation being slow/nonexistent. If you and your boyfriend wind up doing most of the talking just to each other, while turning time to time to smile at your brother, that is probably fine too. The only people who might have a big expectation about conversation between y'all and him is you guys!
posted by feets at 8:49 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]

"Activity food" is really great for easing awkwardness. Korean BBQ is a good one- it's fun and busy-making to grill the meats, and the flavours of the grilled meat and plain rice are mild, familiar and delicious (in case he has sensory issues or isn't always into unfamiliar foods?)
posted by pseudostrabismus at 8:51 PM on August 26, 2013

Autistic kids sometimes benefit from saying things over and over so it seems real and they know they did not misunderstand. If he seems okay, let him repeat himself.

Try to go someplace quiet. Some of them are easily overstimulated.

Autistic kids often have an intense interest they can go on about endlessly. Ask the parents. If he is obsessed with stamps or dinosaurs or trains and everyone is sick to death of hearing about it and you will listen intently while he drones on in great detail, he will be in heaven.
posted by Michele in California at 8:53 PM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]

Sometimes with my son (13, on the spectrum), especially when we're in the car, I ask silly "would you rather" questions. Like, would you rather be able to fly, or be invisible. And then his answer is a great opener for more - why he picked one and not the other. Ask his favorite movie, and always, if you get a closed off answer, ask why, or volunteer your answer to the question, even if he hasn't asked it.

It's not a bad thing to have to do most of the talking. Jokes are fun, too, even silly riddles. You may just have to ask a lot of questions to have any conversation; it's the one situation where that's socially acceptable :) And the people saying that lulls in the conversation are ok are right, he won't mind. Take your cues from him, though, like - if you see him looking at something, you can remark on it and try to draw him out about it.

My son and I sometimes play the dot game -- I guess it's called Dots and Boxes on the back of the paper menus (we mostly go to places with paper menus, because, well. Kid friendly food :)). Or even tic tac toe, or -- I don't know where you are geographically but it seems like - is it bob evans or cracker barrel that has little wooden 'fidget' games on the tables? You could even bring something like that along.

And some restaurants seem to be built to purposely maintain a kind of high level of sound, and that's hard for kids on the spectrum sometimes; we don't go to Red Robin much because of that. Buffets can be good because there's no waiting. My son loooves the pizza buffet restaurant :)
posted by lemniskate at 9:04 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]

Why not just let him be?

For one thing, there are usually plenty of things to talk about in a restaurant. "What are you getting?" "If I get the X do you want to share my Y?" "I wonder what kinds of desserts they have here?" "Should we order wine?" etc. Nthing "activity food" or anything where there will naturally be a lot of fun to be had outside of just the conversation. Benihana? Something with music or some other form of entertainment?

And for another thing, I mean, he'll talk about what he wants to talk about. Or you guys will talk and he'll butt in awkwardly from time to time. Or whatever.
posted by Sara C. at 9:33 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]

I'm not on the spectrum, but sometimes there's far too much conversation at the dinner table in my opinion. My kids drive me mad, taking turns to address a comment to me, so that I can spend my entire meal gulping mouthfuls so I can respond to everyone, one after another, like an attention dispensing machine.

That said, I like the idea of you not turning your brother's celebration dinner into a Here's How We Eat Dinner lesson. If he is genuinely happy to mostly eat his dinner and follow the conversation at the table, why not let him be? You could address comments to him if they naturally arise ("Wow, my squid is delicious, how's your wildebeest?" is probably better than, "So, tell me what you think about {random topic}"). I think forcing some kind of conversation game would be borderline rude for someone who is not either a small child, or fond of playing conversationally.
posted by Kaleidoscope at 9:54 PM on August 26, 2013

I don't know exactly what your relationship is with your/his parents, but can you talk to them to find out more? Does he like quiet restaurants or ones with a lot of activity? Is there something in particular he will talk about? If he is being quiet does he want the rest of the party to be quiet or does he want you to talk?
posted by radioamy at 10:07 PM on August 26, 2013

Best answer: as someone on the spectrum, here is my responses to some of the suggestions here

running down the list:

a) please do not use this to model behaviour. this is not a social skills class. this will further isolate him.
b) do ask him where he wants to go for dinner, or if he wants to go for dinner at all, often folks on the spectrum have food issues, or noise issues or resturant issues, so there might be some other thing he wants to do better.
c) do not force conversation, or prepare conversation in advance. be okay with long peroids of silence.
d) if he is awkard as it is, bring a map of three reference books will just make the whole thing even worse. however dots and boxes, drawing, etc isnt. as a 32 yr old still on the spectrum, i take crayons or a paper menu whenever i go where that is an option.
e) activity food can be a nightmare for reason b. plus it might be a bit patronizing.

memail me if you need any spec. questions answered--but the key is, this is his day, celebrating his accomplishments, and so let him run the show.
posted by PinkMoose at 10:31 PM on August 26, 2013 [14 favorites]

I have two brothers with diagnosed autism spectrum disorder (one higher functioning than the other, but what I'm saying would apply to both), and I'd say that it's more important to go somewhere that they'd enjoy. Many people with autism have real difficulty in noisy or otherwise overstimulating places, and often times unfamiliarity can make them uncomfortable, so keep that in mind when looking for a place. Don't worry too much about conversation; in all honesty, they probably either don't care whether there is conversation or not, or might feel pressured if they feel that they need to say something to appear 'normal'. Again, though, it depends on the person. The older of my two brothers can talk your ear off about whatever subject he's currently interested in, often to the point of not realizing that people have lost interest in talking about it, while the younger usually doesn't talk much, or talks to himself mostly.

(On preview, what PinkMoose said.)
posted by Aleyn at 10:53 PM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]

Best answer: Also, just in case you are worrying that having a meal of silence will be squandering the opportunity to get to know him better/get closer to him, I think you could feel a lot better about that because talking definitely isn't the only way to do those two things. You have the chance to learn about his tastes, his comfort zone, and the sorts of things that make him happy and make him have fun. He in turn has the chance to spend time in the company of someone who (it sounds like) he doesn't get to see very often and have a fun outing that is an exciting and maybe rare treat, where he doesn't need to feel pressured, judged, wrong, or out of place. I think there's a good chance he will feel the slightest bit closer or at least more comfortable with you after a good, happy outing like that, even if there is little talking involved. Also, I think sharing a meal with someone is often inherently bonding, by itself.
posted by cairdeas at 11:01 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'm not on the spectrum, but I often get bored and frustrated with the social ritual of phatic communication; that tedious habit we have of swapping bland tit-bits of personal information, not because we are interested in the answers, but simply to reinforce social bonds.

Instead of small talk, why not an informal parlour game? It still serves the purpose of social bonding, but it's so much more fun. Would You Rather is great, as suggested above (you'll find many example questions online). Or Twenty Questions.

But something even simpler might be even better. One of my favourite games for long car journeys is The Hat Game. It's easy: you go round the table, and each person has to name a type of hat. Fireman's hat, football helmet, swimming cap, surgeon's cap. If you can't name a hat, you're out. I discovered this in a children's novel once (maybe Betsy Byars?). Thinking of as many hats as you can is surprisingly good fun.
posted by dontjumplarry at 12:31 AM on August 27, 2013

Well, I would suggest that you not converse.

A whole dinner's worth of table conversation is hard going for a lot of people, but for an autistic teen who is not even physically capable of holding a normal conversation, it's just going to be way, way too much. I have my level 4 badge in figure skating, I'm not about to enter the Olympic pairs championships and start doing thrown triple salchows, you know what I'm saying?

If the dinner out is a reward/celebration for your brother's achievement, the important thing is to think about what your brother really likes. Does he have any favourite obsessions that one particular themed restaurant would be suited to? It doesn't really sound like it... Or a restaurant that has particular lighting or colors or textures in the decor that he likes?

It sounds like you feel you can expect good restaurant behaviour from him but maybe, if you want him to enjoy himself, conversation doesn't need to be a big part of that.
posted by tel3path at 2:33 AM on August 27, 2013

I once had a date who didn't like talking much.

I took her to restaurants with TVs and all was good.
posted by Kruger5 at 4:06 AM on August 27, 2013

I agree with virtually everyone above me, but I just wanted to say, your boyfriend is AWESOME for doing this. Total keeper!
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:23 AM on August 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Why don't you guys do a Medieval Times dinner tournament? I'm sure you'd have something to talk about after that, assuming it wouldn't be overwhelming.
posted by oceanjesse at 6:23 AM on August 27, 2013 [3 favorites]

Best answer: I would suggest you just go in with different expectations than you might for an neurotypical dinner companion. There probably are going to be times you will have some silences that are awkward to you, or where you chat with your boyfriend while your brother thinks about whatever he wants to think about, or you may end up nodding and commenting occasionally while your brother talks at great length about the video games you guys don't know about and can't really relate to.

And that's fine. This is a celebration for your brother's achievement, right? So let it be about what makes your brother happy even if it's not how you'd normally spend a dinner. Maybe you can learn a bit about his favorite video game or another interest/hobby of his beforehand, and be able to ask some questions he'd enjoy answering. Maybe his parents, or a friend or caregiver, can give you some insight into topics he's currently interested in that might draw him out a bit.

I don't know your brother, obviously, but I do have several years' experience working with people of autism. From that, I would suggest that just because you're uncomfortable or feeling awkward about a silence, doesn't mean that he is.
posted by Stacey at 6:49 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]

I wouldn't worry too much. Take him to a place that you know he likes, one that's quiet so as not to be over-stimulating.

You and your BF can talk about interesting stuff in general. If your brother wants to chime in, he can. You can do your best to include him in the discussion, but if he's not talkative, it's cool.

I'd have some fun questions to ask up front:

If you won a million dollars in the lottery, what would you do with it?

If you could travel anywhere in world where would it be?

Describe your dream house.

You can all take turns answering and you'll learn a ton about your BF. Other that what you know already, he's a total mench.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:06 AM on August 27, 2013

Could you go to a place like Buffalo Wild Wings, or some other place that has one of those game-pad things where you play trivia on the TV monitors?

And seriously, your boyfriend sounds like a terrific guy. Even if this evening turns out to be awkward or tough for you, please let him know what an awesome and thoughtful thing this was for him to offer.
posted by jbickers at 7:26 AM on August 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

You two are trying to do a nice thing for your brother by taking him out to dinner, and he seems excited about going. I am not sure what you are worried about with the conversation issue. Even if you wind up talking about the same five things over and over again all night, or receiving one-word answers to paragraph-length questions all night, or listening to your brother recite facts about his favorite TV show all night, or sitting in silence for half the night, as long as your brother, the guest of honor, is enjoying himself, then why does that matter?

I say just try to talk about the things you know your brother is interested in (even if you have already talked about them before) and make a point of asking your brother every once in a while throughout the evening whether he wants / needs anything and whether he is enjoying himself.
posted by BlueJae at 8:09 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Thank for for the comments, everyone! My BF himself is not the best in social situations, and I think he feels like on the one hand, he'd like to spend more time with my brother because he's a genuine person (he is not capable of pretensions) and that is comfortable. But on the other hand, he's nervous because neither of us really know the best way to talk to him (and indeed, it seems that talking is not his strength and your advice to just accept that is probably correct). I do think it would be nice to get to know him better. My other siblings are either not local or are involved with their own lives right now so I don't see them often, and given the age spread, have not spent as much time with this brother as I maybe would have otherwise. There are no issues, no problems per se. It's just that I was 18 and living in another city when he was born, and while I did spend vacations with them, we didn't grow up together. With that said, he does like me and since he's moved back here, we've done a few movies and swimming pool excursions and so on. I am not a stranger and I think he enjoys seeing me. I am actually looking forward to the chance to get to know him a bit better. Thank you to all for the suggestions!
posted by JoannaC at 9:59 AM on August 27, 2013

Picnic down by the river?
posted by at at 2:02 PM on August 27, 2013

You get to know someone better by spending time with them, not by grilling them like it's a job interview. Consider dinner to be a first installment on a long series, not some accomplishment to tick off. Some people never talk much. My youngest doesn't talk much to me. He listens and when he interjects he clearly knows what has been going on around him while he was quiet. I often die laughing at his obnoxiously funny, very on point observations.

If not talking is a trait of his, letting him not talk is part of genuinely knowing him.
posted by Michele in California at 4:01 PM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]

I asked my sister, who is not a MeFite but is someone who has over 25 years professional experience working with autistic kids, as well as an autistic stepson, what she would suggest. Here's what she wrote back:

Sustaining conversation is typically difficult for many people with autism. Sometimes it is helpful to engage the person in a topic if interest to them- favorite show, video, movie, book series. The others engaging in the conversation should not feel awkward with one word answers or limited conversation- social interaction is typically an area if difficulty for people with autism. You may want to consider setting up an activity instead of just a dinner date- could lead to more conversation. Try to relax and have fun too, let your brother know that you are happy to be with him by your body language, actions and words, even if words are very few in number.

Hope that helps.
posted by deliciae at 8:56 AM on August 29, 2013