P is for Pledge
August 14, 2013 3:42 PM Subscribe
What are the benefits of preschool and elementary age children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance?
A lot of elementary schools (and even preschools) in the United States apparently have a practice of children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance every day in their classrooms.
Is there any data or other information that describes and attests to the benefits of this practice for the children and/or for the country?
A lot of elementary schools (and even preschools) in the United States apparently have a practice of children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance every day in their classrooms.
Is there any data or other information that describes and attests to the benefits of this practice for the children and/or for the country?
The only "benefit" for me: I can still recite it word for word more than 20 years later. And it made me wonder why allegiance to the flag should come before allegiance to the country.
posted by stopgap at 3:54 PM on August 14, 2013
posted by stopgap at 3:54 PM on August 14, 2013
Mod note: Please do not have this thread become a general discussion about the Pledge. Question is narrowly tailored. Please limit answers to ones that address this question. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:05 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:05 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Skill students may benefit from include memorization, national pride, history, public speaking, and choral recitation. The pledge is also said before many school board, civic, and government meetings, so it would be good to learn it and have it memorized to recite in those situations.
posted by NoraCharles at 4:05 PM on August 14, 2013
posted by NoraCharles at 4:05 PM on August 14, 2013
Historically, it was (I believe quite explicitly) about indoctrinating and "Americanizing" (often Catholic) immigrant children.
I'd be inclined to argue it's still doing the same thing, though more generally and not so specifically targeting the children of immigrants.
posted by hoyland at 4:13 PM on August 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'd be inclined to argue it's still doing the same thing, though more generally and not so specifically targeting the children of immigrants.
posted by hoyland at 4:13 PM on August 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Is there any data or other information that describes and attests to the benefits of this practice for the children and/or for the country?
Guessing here that you're not from the US, but:
Of course there isn't, because its ostensible goals are based on totally imaginary premises.
Notionally, it's a reaction to the eternal but completely imaginary bugbear of THE KIDS THESE DAYS. Why, unless we force them to say a pledge every day, the kids are going to grow up to be Bolsheviks or fascists or monarchists or Methodists or whatever the current boogeyman is. And, obviously, saying a pledge will prevent that because reasons. But because the premise itself is entirely make-believe, there could not possibly be any evidence to support it. Any more than there could be evidence to support that voter ID laws reduce voter impersonation, because that problem also does not exist in the first place.
If you wanted to play the game of Simplistic Social Science, you could easily argue that the pledge has been entirely counterproductive to its stated goals of encouraging patriotism and community. Trust in government and trust in other people in your community have both dropped like rocks since the introduction of the pledge in its modern form in the 1950s. (Really because Vietnam and Watergate and so on, but still)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:19 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Guessing here that you're not from the US, but:
Of course there isn't, because its ostensible goals are based on totally imaginary premises.
Notionally, it's a reaction to the eternal but completely imaginary bugbear of THE KIDS THESE DAYS. Why, unless we force them to say a pledge every day, the kids are going to grow up to be Bolsheviks or fascists or monarchists or Methodists or whatever the current boogeyman is. And, obviously, saying a pledge will prevent that because reasons. But because the premise itself is entirely make-believe, there could not possibly be any evidence to support it. Any more than there could be evidence to support that voter ID laws reduce voter impersonation, because that problem also does not exist in the first place.
If you wanted to play the game of Simplistic Social Science, you could easily argue that the pledge has been entirely counterproductive to its stated goals of encouraging patriotism and community. Trust in government and trust in other people in your community have both dropped like rocks since the introduction of the pledge in its modern form in the 1950s. (Really because Vietnam and Watergate and so on, but still)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:19 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
This special issue [pdf] of Educational Philosophy and Theory includes an article by Michael S. Merry who gives a brief literature review on the history of patriotic exercises in US schools (starting on page 381). Merry's review agrees with hoyland's point about homogenizing immigrant populations:
In most schools, strong prohibitions were imposed against the use of non-English languages and non-Protestant customs. Ellwood Cubberly’s notorious remark in 1909 is typical of the age:posted by audi alteram partem at 4:28 PM on August 14, 2013Our task is to break up these groups or settlements, to assimilate and amalgamate these people as a part of our American race, and to implant in their children so far as can be done, the Anglo-Saxon conception of righteousness, law and order, and popular government, and to awaken in them a reverence for our democratic institutions and for those things in our national life which we as a people hold to be of abiding worth.
1960s/1970s childhood: none of us knew what "pledge," "allegiance," "republic," or "towhichitstands" even meant. The only word I understood in the whole thing was some weird way of pronouncing "invisible," which was cool.
In other words: in my opinion first the fact of its being a ritual, something that you gradually understand is done by kids everywhere across the country, with the same hand on heart pose, and thereby gives you a sense of citizenship. Not even because of what you are actually saying. Just because you are all saying it.
posted by third rail at 4:36 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
In other words: in my opinion first the fact of its being a ritual, something that you gradually understand is done by kids everywhere across the country, with the same hand on heart pose, and thereby gives you a sense of citizenship. Not even because of what you are actually saying. Just because you are all saying it.
posted by third rail at 4:36 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't have any data, but I teach first grade and we say the pledge every morning. It starts our day in a predictable and structured way. We work very hard at building a strong classroom community, and the pledge (along with a pledge that we write together specific to our classroom) strengthens our sense of community as a room, and as a larger part of our society. I have students from many different backgrounds and cultures. While we celebrate those differences, we also learn about and celebrate our commonalities as Americans. We're not indoctrinating, we're coming together. Just my take on it, from the trenches, as it were.
posted by Cloudberry Sky at 4:39 PM on August 14, 2013 [17 favorites]
posted by Cloudberry Sky at 4:39 PM on August 14, 2013 [17 favorites]
I've worked in schools that do this. Very practically speaking, once it's a routine, it's actually a good way to settle them in for the morning - it signals that school has started and it's time to work as a team and pay attention. (There are, of course, many non-pledge things that serve the same purpose - I've also been to schools where they began with a moment of silence, or a famous quote followed by reflection, or a recitation of some part of the behavioral code - I don't think the pledge is any more effective than those things.)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:39 PM on August 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:39 PM on August 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
For me, and some of my contemporaries in school (this was over 20 years ago so things may be different) it got us to ask questions about what we were saying, like what does republic mean and liberty and so on and it gave me a grounding in what the country should be, something to aspire to.
posted by bartonlong at 4:47 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by bartonlong at 4:47 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
America is what is called a "propositional nation." It does not exist out of a common ethnic background but of shared ideals. As a consequence, part of its education policies will be about installing the ideals behind these national propositions. Is there evidence that reciting the pledge every morning actually does this and does it better than alternatives? Like much of medicine in the late 19th and early 20th century, no one ran double-blind studies to evaluate efficacy. They simply did things that seemed like they would be a good idea, and it didn't seem to do any damage, and people assimilated, so it must have been working.
posted by deanc at 4:48 PM on August 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by deanc at 4:48 PM on August 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
I wanted to know what a whitchet stand was in first grade, and why I needed four of them. That curiosity led me to ask a lot of questions at school... and I learned some big words and concepts at a young age as a result. Sure everyone else did too, but hey - its a good early introduction to US Civics. Plus, a few years later when we did the breakfast of famous people, I recited it to the kid dressed as Abraham Lincoln because it was something we could talk about...
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:31 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:31 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Narrow answer to a narrow question: no benefit at all, unless you count the recitation of a creed as a benefit. Your child should not be make to do this. As a matter of historical interest it has merit but nothing more than that.
posted by brownrd at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2013
posted by brownrd at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2013
Looking on the optimistic side, for young children it's a way to exercise the skills of memorization, complex (for their age) word pronunciation, and the concepts of allegiance/loyalty, patriotism, liberty, justice, and so on; while tying that to an object to focus on. It's not as catchy as the Mickey Mouse Club theme, but it's probably more educational.
posted by WasabiFlux at 6:18 PM on August 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by WasabiFlux at 6:18 PM on August 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm sure it started as an anti-everyone-but-WASPs thing, but at this point, it's just a communal thing. It fills the same role as starting a meeting with a prayer or an invocation. A chance to settle down and get everyone relatively focused. (And yes, early memorization practice. Later it can be a jumping off point for discussion.)
posted by gjc at 6:26 PM on August 14, 2013
posted by gjc at 6:26 PM on August 14, 2013
Wasn't the original intent to promote a Christian socialist agenda by promoting nationalism, and to sell flags into classrooms? Seems like it still does those two things effectively.
posted by straw at 6:52 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by straw at 6:52 PM on August 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't know any factual answer to your question, but it seems logical to me that the pledge is intended to instill a sense of patriotism and nationalism, and the practice probably became more widespread during times of war.
In my own experience, I remember from a very young age being skeptical of the pledge, and why we would pledge allegiance to a flag, instead of the country itself, or it's values, and deciding very young (about 7 or 8) not to participate. Even at that age I had a strong sense that it was propaganda, even if I don't have those terms to think of it in. I remember standing in the mornings with my hands firmly at my sides, not speaking while my classmates recited the pledge, and wondering why no one else questioned it.
Another thing I remember is that we never discussed the pledge itself, or what it actually meant, or its history. It seems just another way to encourage blind, unthinking obedience.
posted by catatethebird at 7:15 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
In my own experience, I remember from a very young age being skeptical of the pledge, and why we would pledge allegiance to a flag, instead of the country itself, or it's values, and deciding very young (about 7 or 8) not to participate. Even at that age I had a strong sense that it was propaganda, even if I don't have those terms to think of it in. I remember standing in the mornings with my hands firmly at my sides, not speaking while my classmates recited the pledge, and wondering why no one else questioned it.
Another thing I remember is that we never discussed the pledge itself, or what it actually meant, or its history. It seems just another way to encourage blind, unthinking obedience.
posted by catatethebird at 7:15 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
P.S. I went to a public school in the Midwest, and was never punished or singled out in any way for not participating. The pledge was pretty much a non-event that no one else even seemed to think about. It was just automatic.
posted by catatethebird at 7:18 PM on August 14, 2013
posted by catatethebird at 7:18 PM on August 14, 2013
It may be useful to know, in relation to those answers suggesting a religious motivation/"benefit," that the pledge was recited in schools long before "under God" was inserted into the text.
posted by obliquicity at 7:40 PM on August 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by obliquicity at 7:40 PM on August 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Also as a non-citizen I stood politely (and still do, despite naturalization) during the pledge and was never questioned, except by fellow students who equally politely accepted my explanation. So to that extent, I agree that it's (possibly inadvertently) about learning about what it means to be or not be a citizen of a nation, and how to be respectful in the face of other people's citizenly pride.
posted by obliquicity at 7:42 PM on August 14, 2013
posted by obliquicity at 7:42 PM on August 14, 2013
I learned a bit about freedom of speech, religious differences, and following a different path when I asked the girl I always ended up next to at seventh grade assembly why she didn't stand.
posted by yohko at 7:55 PM on August 14, 2013
posted by yohko at 7:55 PM on August 14, 2013
Anecdata: When my kids were in preschool, they came home one day talking about how they, "made a promise to their country." I appreciate that there was an age-appropriate attempt to teach about what it means.
Our elementary school also recites daily. I believe there was a resurrection of daily recital in our school district after 9/11. I do find it disappointing that the teachers do not teach about what it means.
posted by mamabear at 8:31 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Our elementary school also recites daily. I believe there was a resurrection of daily recital in our school district after 9/11. I do find it disappointing that the teachers do not teach about what it means.
posted by mamabear at 8:31 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I also think it's about the closest most students -- especially students that young -- get to memorizing poetry. I remember thinking a lot more about the words to the pledge than probably any other text, as a young child. Lots of big unfamiliar words, lots of familiar ones in unusual phrasings. I don't remember ever thinking about it in the context of What It Means To Be American, or What The Flag Stands For, but I do remember turning phrases like "...and to the Republic, for which it stands..." over in my mind constantly, in early elementary school.
I mean, it would be cool if we had a thing like this, but instead of jingoistic nonsense it was about something else. But I'm willing to live with the thing we have. It could be worse. It could be a prayer.
posted by Sara C. at 10:14 PM on August 14, 2013
I mean, it would be cool if we had a thing like this, but instead of jingoistic nonsense it was about something else. But I'm willing to live with the thing we have. It could be worse. It could be a prayer.
posted by Sara C. at 10:14 PM on August 14, 2013
Routine and discipline. In 1943, the State School board of West Virginia argued in front of the Supreme Court defending it's requirement that students "salute" the flag and recite the Pledge.
"Failure to conform is "insubordination," dealt with by expulsion. Readmission is denied by statute until compliance."
The Supreme Court ruled that requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools violated the First and Fourteenth Amendments:
"In a 6-to-3 decision, the Court overruled its decision in Minersville School District v. Gobitis and held that compelling public schoolchildren to salute the flag was unconstitutional. The Court found that such a salute was a form of utterance and was a means of communicating ideas. "Compulsory unification of opinion," the Court held, was doomed to failure and was antithetical to First Amendment values. Writing for the majority, Justice Jackson argued that "[i]f there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."
(So the solution was to make it voluntary which is permissible, but no less coercive.)
posted by three blind mice at 2:33 AM on August 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Failure to conform is "insubordination," dealt with by expulsion. Readmission is denied by statute until compliance."
The Supreme Court ruled that requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools violated the First and Fourteenth Amendments:
"In a 6-to-3 decision, the Court overruled its decision in Minersville School District v. Gobitis and held that compelling public schoolchildren to salute the flag was unconstitutional. The Court found that such a salute was a form of utterance and was a means of communicating ideas. "Compulsory unification of opinion," the Court held, was doomed to failure and was antithetical to First Amendment values. Writing for the majority, Justice Jackson argued that "[i]f there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."
(So the solution was to make it voluntary which is permissible, but no less coercive.)
posted by three blind mice at 2:33 AM on August 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Comment deleted. Reminder: this isn't really for stories about how you feel about the pledge, or general discussion. OP has asked for "data or other information that describes and attests to the benefits of this practice for the children and/or for the country?"
posted by taz (staff) at 4:03 AM on August 15, 2013
posted by taz (staff) at 4:03 AM on August 15, 2013
At its core it is a communal expression of values rather than a thing done for some expected beneficial outcome, and what those values are does take some unpacking. They are, like a lot of American things, simultaneously awe inspiringly beautiful and brutally ugly.
The pledge was in a lot of ways part of the American experiment of redefining society according to the values of the Enlightenment in opposition to Feudal values, where here it is redefining ethnicity. In the pledge children are not promising loyalty to a king as a subject, a language group as a speaker, a people as a relative, or a geographic region as a settler but to a set of ideas and the symbols that represent those ideas. This was meant to be part of ushering in a post-ethnic world of peace and prosperity where we would all be loyal the the ideas themselves of the rule of law, popular self-government, and liberty; where when social conflict happened the goal was that we should be loyal to what was right rather than what was best for ourselves or our leaders or our relatives.
posted by Blasdelb at 7:30 AM on August 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
The pledge was in a lot of ways part of the American experiment of redefining society according to the values of the Enlightenment in opposition to Feudal values, where here it is redefining ethnicity. In the pledge children are not promising loyalty to a king as a subject, a language group as a speaker, a people as a relative, or a geographic region as a settler but to a set of ideas and the symbols that represent those ideas. This was meant to be part of ushering in a post-ethnic world of peace and prosperity where we would all be loyal the the ideas themselves of the rule of law, popular self-government, and liberty; where when social conflict happened the goal was that we should be loyal to what was right rather than what was best for ourselves or our leaders or our relatives.
posted by Blasdelb at 7:30 AM on August 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
As for formalized studies: Probably not. Anecdata? Yes!
My 4-year-old (at the time) came home from school last summer saying the Pledge. One of the preschool teachers taught it to their class. It was a novelty at first, but it also started a discussion with her: What does the Pledge mean? Why is "liberty and justice for all" a concern in our nation? Why do we talk about these concepts, at all? What does it mean to make a pledge? How does this Pledge relate to the President? Etc.
Similar to the Pledge: I was in elementary school in the 1980s and many of my teachers had upright pianos in their class, and would lead music. Patriotic songs were common... I also remember singing "God Bless America" and waving flags as part of a kindergarten program!
In my high school home room one year, we augmented our recital of the Pledge with the singing of national and state (official and unofficial) songs. It was fun to sing "California, Here I Come!" or "I Love You, California." Old-timey songs reprised.
A lot of adults don't think about the concepts communicated in the Pledge, or why they are important in our society. The Pledge is commonly recited at civic events and club meetings, and should not just be the domain of the Boy Scouts. I gain a sense of community from reciting the Pledge with others. It really embodies the "out of many, one" ideal for me. It is a ritual to undertake that demonstrates the revered solemnity of the flag, the emblem of our nation.
As another poster mentioned above, it also sparks discussion about why don't others say it? There were always several students in my classes who wouldn't say it. It was interesting to know their reasons. At least one was Jehovah's Witness, and another student just flat-out disagreed with it.
posted by FergieBelle at 10:29 AM on August 15, 2013
My 4-year-old (at the time) came home from school last summer saying the Pledge. One of the preschool teachers taught it to their class. It was a novelty at first, but it also started a discussion with her: What does the Pledge mean? Why is "liberty and justice for all" a concern in our nation? Why do we talk about these concepts, at all? What does it mean to make a pledge? How does this Pledge relate to the President? Etc.
Similar to the Pledge: I was in elementary school in the 1980s and many of my teachers had upright pianos in their class, and would lead music. Patriotic songs were common... I also remember singing "God Bless America" and waving flags as part of a kindergarten program!
In my high school home room one year, we augmented our recital of the Pledge with the singing of national and state (official and unofficial) songs. It was fun to sing "California, Here I Come!" or "I Love You, California." Old-timey songs reprised.
A lot of adults don't think about the concepts communicated in the Pledge, or why they are important in our society. The Pledge is commonly recited at civic events and club meetings, and should not just be the domain of the Boy Scouts. I gain a sense of community from reciting the Pledge with others. It really embodies the "out of many, one" ideal for me. It is a ritual to undertake that demonstrates the revered solemnity of the flag, the emblem of our nation.
As another poster mentioned above, it also sparks discussion about why don't others say it? There were always several students in my classes who wouldn't say it. It was interesting to know their reasons. At least one was Jehovah's Witness, and another student just flat-out disagreed with it.
posted by FergieBelle at 10:29 AM on August 15, 2013
When I was a wee lad we all said the pledge. It was in retrospect a lot easier than singing the Star Spangled Banner, or God Bless America, which we sometimes did. So speaking as someone way past his prime pledging days it was part of our daily routine, it signaled the start of the day, and it counted towards our marks in Citizenship. Yes, we were graded on that.
posted by Gungho at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2013
posted by Gungho at 11:31 AM on August 15, 2013
Anecdata:
I found the pledge to be helpful in elementary school. Perhaps not in the usual way though. When I found out that 'under god' had been added by an act of Congress I determined I wouldn't recite it anymore. This taught me a lesson of standing up for my own rights (as you can't force students to recite this anymore) even under the pressure of your peers and the authorities around you. So I stood silently with my hand on my heart. It was probably the first time I protested (even silently), and the first time I stood up for my rights.
While I resented the pledge at the time, in retrospect it taught me some valuable lessons.
posted by el io at 12:46 PM on August 15, 2013
I found the pledge to be helpful in elementary school. Perhaps not in the usual way though. When I found out that 'under god' had been added by an act of Congress I determined I wouldn't recite it anymore. This taught me a lesson of standing up for my own rights (as you can't force students to recite this anymore) even under the pressure of your peers and the authorities around you. So I stood silently with my hand on my heart. It was probably the first time I protested (even silently), and the first time I stood up for my rights.
While I resented the pledge at the time, in retrospect it taught me some valuable lessons.
posted by el io at 12:46 PM on August 15, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
And for what it's worth, it's not just the US -- I taught English at a public school in Mexico for a while and they all had a big weekly "Patria" shindig with flag saluting and marching and singing the national anthem and such.
posted by olinerd at 3:53 PM on August 14, 2013 [1 favorite]