Seeking info about terraforming/modded humans for a sci-fi story.
July 30, 2013 6:20 PM Subscribe
I have this idea for a science fiction story, but I don't know enough science to flesh it out. Maybe you do?
So, here's my idea: humans create an AI to manage the terraforming of Mars (or some other planet if Mars doesn't work scientifically) because it's deeply complicated to transform a whole planet's ecosystem. This is the first time humans have given an AI so much power and it has some unexpected results.
The AI calculates that it's easier to create an atmosphere that is different from Earth's atmosphere and to genetically modify humans to be able to breathe that atmosphere. To the AI, the human desire to re-create Earth's atmosphere is irrational and unimportant.
There's more to the story of course, but that's the part that I need help with. Honestly, I'm not super concerned with being scientifically accurate to an intense degree. But I'd like to at least have the story have the appearance of being scientifically plausible.
Is there a way to create an atmosphere on Mars that would a) be easier in some way than re-creating Earth's atmosphere and b) be different enough that baseline humans couldn't breathe the air but c) similar enough that some genetic modification could plausibly allow humans to breathe the air? If so, what gases would compose that atmosphere? Thanks in advance!
So, here's my idea: humans create an AI to manage the terraforming of Mars (or some other planet if Mars doesn't work scientifically) because it's deeply complicated to transform a whole planet's ecosystem. This is the first time humans have given an AI so much power and it has some unexpected results.
The AI calculates that it's easier to create an atmosphere that is different from Earth's atmosphere and to genetically modify humans to be able to breathe that atmosphere. To the AI, the human desire to re-create Earth's atmosphere is irrational and unimportant.
There's more to the story of course, but that's the part that I need help with. Honestly, I'm not super concerned with being scientifically accurate to an intense degree. But I'd like to at least have the story have the appearance of being scientifically plausible.
Is there a way to create an atmosphere on Mars that would a) be easier in some way than re-creating Earth's atmosphere and b) be different enough that baseline humans couldn't breathe the air but c) similar enough that some genetic modification could plausibly allow humans to breathe the air? If so, what gases would compose that atmosphere? Thanks in advance!
Best answer: However, if an atmosphere was created, it would take hundreds of thousands of years to blow away, so that factor could be ignored for practical purposes. (If we gave the Moon an atmosphere it would be the same way.)
The big problem with Mars is that it's further away from the Sun than the earth is, so even with a respectable atmosphere it's going to be a lot colder. As a rough estimate it gets about 45% the solar energy that the Earth does.
So how to make the place warm enough for life? The easiest is to load the atmosphere up with greenhouse gases, particularly carbon dioxide. If you make the atmosphere 20% CO2, you're going to retain a hell of a lot more heat on the night side.
Normal humans can't live in an atmosphere like that. We suffocate if it's even 1/2% (actually a lot lower than that). So either you accept that humans must forever wear air masks, or...
... you redesign humans to tolerate high CO2 levels in their air.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:52 PM on July 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
The big problem with Mars is that it's further away from the Sun than the earth is, so even with a respectable atmosphere it's going to be a lot colder. As a rough estimate it gets about 45% the solar energy that the Earth does.
So how to make the place warm enough for life? The easiest is to load the atmosphere up with greenhouse gases, particularly carbon dioxide. If you make the atmosphere 20% CO2, you're going to retain a hell of a lot more heat on the night side.
Normal humans can't live in an atmosphere like that. We suffocate if it's even 1/2% (actually a lot lower than that). So either you accept that humans must forever wear air masks, or...
... you redesign humans to tolerate high CO2 levels in their air.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:52 PM on July 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
The effect that ATBH cites (solar wind eroding the atmosphere) is important on geological time scales, but it occurs at negligible speeds on human time scales. If, somehow, an substantial atmosphere was created on Mars tomorrow, it would outlast the human race.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:57 PM on July 30, 2013
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 7:57 PM on July 30, 2013
A correction: Wikipedia says:
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:06 PM on July 30, 2013
Concentrations of 7% to 10% may cause suffocation, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.If you make your concentration substantially higher than that (25-50%) then it would still be lethal for normal humans without air masks.
Adaptation to increased levels of CO2 occurs in humans. Continuous inhalation of CO2 can be tolerated at three percent inspired concentrations for at least one month and four percent inspired concentrations for over a week.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:06 PM on July 30, 2013
Earth's atmosphere was not always what it is today. As I understand it, it used to be both denser (maybe somewhere between our current "air" and water?) and higher in oxygen. IIRC, it is currently around 16% oxygen but at one time was 30%-40% oxygen.
I watched one of those dinosaur shows with my sons. At some point, they were saying "if this (HUGE) spider were alive today, it would be hunting animals the size of house cats." I blurted "No, it would be on life support." And that cured me of my terror of large spiders in movies. That epiphany was the result of lots of info coming together.
Earth used to have giant dragonflies, with wingspans up to two feet. linky Googling "dragonflies used to be huge" brought up several links that might interest you. Scientists actually grew larger than normal dragonflies by keeping them in a high oxygen atmosphere. (another link) (another linky)
So, the earth used to have giant spiders, giant dragonflies, giant roaches etc but doesn't anymore. Their respiratory systems are very inefficient. The thinning atmosphere and less oxygen content has shrunk them dramatically. Jurassic Park is not realistic. My understanding is the dinosaurs would be on life support too because they had less efficient lungs than most modern creatures and they were huge. Modern humans gain ribcage size when they live at high altitude long enough. I have personally experienced this. My bra size changed in terms of the rib cage measurement from living at 3000 feet above sea level for 2 years, 9 months. And when folks who live at high altitude visit the lowlands, they experience a temporary boost in energy from the "extra" oxygen.
There are dwarf bison on some island in California. (They think they were brought in for a film and then abandoned.) When the population gets excessive, they cull a few and ship them to the plains where they belong, at which point they put on 100 pounds and grow a thicker fur.
So one possibility: a thinner, lower oxygen atmosphere and smaller humans with a larger ribcage/lung capacity is a very do-able and realistic scenario. You grab mountain-dwelling humans (or even pygmies) and tweak them and the atmosphere needs less development time than a full fledged "at sea level" earth's atmosphere.
I saw a show where a guy who had been mauled by a bear and ended up with gangrene (an anaerobic infection) was cured without drugs by sticking him in a chamber, upping it to three earth's atmosphere's in pressure and thus hyperoxygenating his system. I have cystic fibrosis, which significantly impacts the lungs. The normal pathology is that the lungs are gradually eaten away by infection. Reading up on altitude sickness was hugely eye-opening for me. I am convinced that part of the way CF causes a compromised immune system is by oxygen deprivation. The body uses oxygen to kill a lot of things.
So I suggest that either the AI also modify their immune system to account for this issue in some way OR you use this as a plot twist: Things go horribly wrong and infection is a big issue, wiping out a lot of them.
So I suggest you google info and/or watch shows about dinosaurs and ancient earth's historical atmosphere, look up info on altitude sickness, etc. You could also look for info on people living in Antarctica. A doctor who worked there for a time commented in an interview that living there does weird things to the human body and they still don't really understand it. People get thickened fingernails and other weird outcomes. I would also google info on The Bends, the horseshoe crab (as I understand it, it inspired Vulcan blood: it has copper-based blue blood) and sulfur based life. I think we have sulfur based life in a few caves on earth, but googling the term turned up this page: hypothetical types of biochemistry
Upon preview: If you are thinking of going with Mars still, the above answers would make me very interested in any info on what living in Antarctica does to the human body.
Sorry that's so rambling. I don't know how to make it more succinct.
posted by Michele in California at 8:30 PM on July 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
I watched one of those dinosaur shows with my sons. At some point, they were saying "if this (HUGE) spider were alive today, it would be hunting animals the size of house cats." I blurted "No, it would be on life support." And that cured me of my terror of large spiders in movies. That epiphany was the result of lots of info coming together.
Earth used to have giant dragonflies, with wingspans up to two feet. linky Googling "dragonflies used to be huge" brought up several links that might interest you. Scientists actually grew larger than normal dragonflies by keeping them in a high oxygen atmosphere. (another link) (another linky)
So, the earth used to have giant spiders, giant dragonflies, giant roaches etc but doesn't anymore. Their respiratory systems are very inefficient. The thinning atmosphere and less oxygen content has shrunk them dramatically. Jurassic Park is not realistic. My understanding is the dinosaurs would be on life support too because they had less efficient lungs than most modern creatures and they were huge. Modern humans gain ribcage size when they live at high altitude long enough. I have personally experienced this. My bra size changed in terms of the rib cage measurement from living at 3000 feet above sea level for 2 years, 9 months. And when folks who live at high altitude visit the lowlands, they experience a temporary boost in energy from the "extra" oxygen.
There are dwarf bison on some island in California. (They think they were brought in for a film and then abandoned.) When the population gets excessive, they cull a few and ship them to the plains where they belong, at which point they put on 100 pounds and grow a thicker fur.
So one possibility: a thinner, lower oxygen atmosphere and smaller humans with a larger ribcage/lung capacity is a very do-able and realistic scenario. You grab mountain-dwelling humans (or even pygmies) and tweak them and the atmosphere needs less development time than a full fledged "at sea level" earth's atmosphere.
I saw a show where a guy who had been mauled by a bear and ended up with gangrene (an anaerobic infection) was cured without drugs by sticking him in a chamber, upping it to three earth's atmosphere's in pressure and thus hyperoxygenating his system. I have cystic fibrosis, which significantly impacts the lungs. The normal pathology is that the lungs are gradually eaten away by infection. Reading up on altitude sickness was hugely eye-opening for me. I am convinced that part of the way CF causes a compromised immune system is by oxygen deprivation. The body uses oxygen to kill a lot of things.
So I suggest that either the AI also modify their immune system to account for this issue in some way OR you use this as a plot twist: Things go horribly wrong and infection is a big issue, wiping out a lot of them.
So I suggest you google info and/or watch shows about dinosaurs and ancient earth's historical atmosphere, look up info on altitude sickness, etc. You could also look for info on people living in Antarctica. A doctor who worked there for a time commented in an interview that living there does weird things to the human body and they still don't really understand it. People get thickened fingernails and other weird outcomes. I would also google info on The Bends, the horseshoe crab (as I understand it, it inspired Vulcan blood: it has copper-based blue blood) and sulfur based life. I think we have sulfur based life in a few caves on earth, but googling the term turned up this page: hypothetical types of biochemistry
Upon preview: If you are thinking of going with Mars still, the above answers would make me very interested in any info on what living in Antarctica does to the human body.
Sorry that's so rambling. I don't know how to make it more succinct.
posted by Michele in California at 8:30 PM on July 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
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There's actually a wikipedia article on terraforming Mars with some more information about this kind of thing.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 7:14 PM on July 30, 2013