Am I actually a Libra?
July 26, 2013 2:10 AM Subscribe
Though I dont act like one, standard sources tell me I'm a Sagittarius. Can I trust my memory of several years ago, in which there was some kind of across-the-board agreement that proper calculations- of whatever it is astrologists calculate- might make me a Libra?
I've never been much for astrology. I've been a secular humanist for most of my adult life, but when I was a kid, my skepticism stemmed from the fact that the characteristics ascribed to my sign- according to those pulp booklets I'd read in supermarket check-out aisles- didn't describe me at all. I was born on Nov. 22, at 11:50 AM, which would make me a Sagittarius- yet, I hate sports; I'm not an optimist; I'm not excessively honest or blunt. I'm not particularly quick to anger, tactless, or garrulous (verbose, yes; garrulous, no)... the list goes on and on. The astrological profile that fits me best, coincidentally or not, is Libra.
When a new acquaintance- especially one who seems like the horoscope-reading type- asks me what my sign is, I usually ask them to make their best guess. They're never right the first time, so I make them keep guessing. Curiously, Sagittarius is often the last guess out of twelve. Even stranger, Libra is very often the first.
About ten years ago, I had an upstairs neighbor, Kairo, who called himself an Evolutionary Astrologer. He was a pleasant enough guy, and he had a crush on me, so he offered to "do my charts" for free. The document he prepared for me over the next couple of days was a 60-page version of the astrological profile I was used to reading: it had nothing to do with me. No surprise; still, part of me sort of hoped this one would be different. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, though, so I kept my mild disappointment to myself. The next month he moved away.
About a year later, I ran into Kairo again at a party. He explained to me, with frantic enthusiasm, that his evolutionary chart-reading had failed to incorporate a crucial bit of information: It seems that a few months prior to that, "professional astrologers" (!) had come to an agreement that some eons-long miscalculation of planetary cycles (or something) needed to be corrected. And, with those corrections in place, I would qualify as a Libra.
Yes?
(Sorry for the long post. I'm glad you understand.)
I've never been much for astrology. I've been a secular humanist for most of my adult life, but when I was a kid, my skepticism stemmed from the fact that the characteristics ascribed to my sign- according to those pulp booklets I'd read in supermarket check-out aisles- didn't describe me at all. I was born on Nov. 22, at 11:50 AM, which would make me a Sagittarius- yet, I hate sports; I'm not an optimist; I'm not excessively honest or blunt. I'm not particularly quick to anger, tactless, or garrulous (verbose, yes; garrulous, no)... the list goes on and on. The astrological profile that fits me best, coincidentally or not, is Libra.
When a new acquaintance- especially one who seems like the horoscope-reading type- asks me what my sign is, I usually ask them to make their best guess. They're never right the first time, so I make them keep guessing. Curiously, Sagittarius is often the last guess out of twelve. Even stranger, Libra is very often the first.
About ten years ago, I had an upstairs neighbor, Kairo, who called himself an Evolutionary Astrologer. He was a pleasant enough guy, and he had a crush on me, so he offered to "do my charts" for free. The document he prepared for me over the next couple of days was a 60-page version of the astrological profile I was used to reading: it had nothing to do with me. No surprise; still, part of me sort of hoped this one would be different. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, though, so I kept my mild disappointment to myself. The next month he moved away.
About a year later, I ran into Kairo again at a party. He explained to me, with frantic enthusiasm, that his evolutionary chart-reading had failed to incorporate a crucial bit of information: It seems that a few months prior to that, "professional astrologers" (!) had come to an agreement that some eons-long miscalculation of planetary cycles (or something) needed to be corrected. And, with those corrections in place, I would qualify as a Libra.
Yes?
(Sorry for the long post. I'm glad you understand.)
Best answer: I think you're talking about the 13-sign zodiac, which includes the sign Ophiuchus (previously). That zodiac does indeed have Nov. 22 as Libra.
posted by pipeski at 2:38 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by pipeski at 2:38 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Okay; I'm pretty un-woo and don't necessarily believe in this stuff, but I do know about this - my childhood best friend's mother was an astrologer. And the big reason she even got into it in the first place was because she had an experience similar to yours - my friend was an Aries, but she didn't really behave in any of the ways that a typical Aries was supposed to behave. So my friend's mother started to research astrology to figure out "why is that?"
And while, yes, there is always the argument that it's bunk, she found that even if you DO accept the premise (as she did), there's still an explanation for "why I'm not like a Libra". And that is that the birth date is only one influence on your personality - there are all the other planets, and the positions they hold, which also have their own influences. Your sun being in Libra is only one part of the puzzle - you also have Mars and Venus and the Moon and Mercury and etc., and they all have their own influences; and then on top of that you also have to take into account whether that planet is next to the sign that's associated with it or not (like if Mars was in the sky next to Aries, that doubles its influence, but if Mars was next to something like Pisces not so much).
This is all pretty damn complicated, so a lot of the "how the stars affect your life" and the newspaper horoscopes don't even get into all of that and just stop at the star sign. But I gotta say - my friend's mother did my chart when I was a kid, and there is just one detail on it that is so dead-on custom-tailored to me that I am just that tiny bit willing not to dismiss it as total bunk. (It doesn't guide my life or anything, I'm just amused that "actually, that explains a lot.")
So it's possible that the reason you aren't "a typical Libra" is because there are a lot of other things going on with the other planets in your chart that are throwing things off and getting into the party themselves.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:48 AM on July 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
And while, yes, there is always the argument that it's bunk, she found that even if you DO accept the premise (as she did), there's still an explanation for "why I'm not like a Libra". And that is that the birth date is only one influence on your personality - there are all the other planets, and the positions they hold, which also have their own influences. Your sun being in Libra is only one part of the puzzle - you also have Mars and Venus and the Moon and Mercury and etc., and they all have their own influences; and then on top of that you also have to take into account whether that planet is next to the sign that's associated with it or not (like if Mars was in the sky next to Aries, that doubles its influence, but if Mars was next to something like Pisces not so much).
This is all pretty damn complicated, so a lot of the "how the stars affect your life" and the newspaper horoscopes don't even get into all of that and just stop at the star sign. But I gotta say - my friend's mother did my chart when I was a kid, and there is just one detail on it that is so dead-on custom-tailored to me that I am just that tiny bit willing not to dismiss it as total bunk. (It doesn't guide my life or anything, I'm just amused that "actually, that explains a lot.")
So it's possible that the reason you aren't "a typical Libra" is because there are a lot of other things going on with the other planets in your chart that are throwing things off and getting into the party themselves.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:48 AM on July 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. If you just want to discuss "astrology, yay or nay" maybe the OP will be interested in an email chat. For this question, please just try to help answer the question about whether there was a shift in calculation methods, or similar.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:22 AM on July 26, 2013
posted by taz (staff) at 5:22 AM on July 26, 2013
I have twin boys and am involved in a few support groups for parents of multiples, so I know a lot of twins and triplets. My boys have very different personalities, as do many other multiples. As a test, I submitted their personalities to a few different places, including some friends who follow astrology, sending only one boy's personality to each individual. If they didn't match immediately, then the astrologers went to which ones were actually at play (since the stars have shifted since the signs were assigned to dates) and if that didn't work, other stars and planets were brought into play. Perhaps he meant that Libra is the one you'd be when the corrections are made. See here.
posted by PrimateFan at 5:42 AM on July 26, 2013
posted by PrimateFan at 5:42 AM on July 26, 2013
I do astrology. There are a lot of factors involved, not just the sun sign (I loathe "popular"/sun sign astrology). But I am unaware of anything that would make November 22 a Libra sun sign. That isn't even on the cusp (close to the sign change out of Libra) as Scorpio falls between Libra and Sagittarius, so you are a good 30+ degrees away from Libra.
But if you still have your 60 page read out and if it provides an actual chart, you could look for anything that is in Libra. Among other things, the rising sign describes your public persona, so a Libra rising sign might account for it. Or having sevrral heavenly bodies in Libra could account for it. I have an Aries rising sign and it is the only fire sign in my chart. I have read that gives emphasis somehow to the fiery impression I make. Also, very strong aspects can play a role here, if they are mathematically tight.
There also decanates -- sub rulers for every ten degrees -- Arabian parts (mathematically calculated points of importance), and quite a lot more to explore than what typically gets talked about in "sun sign" astrology (have I mentioned yet that I hate sun sign astrology?)
tldr: No, you absolutely cannot possibly have a Libra sun sign. But there are a lot of other factors to consider in astrology which might account for you coming across like a Libran.
posted by Michele in California at 5:44 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
But if you still have your 60 page read out and if it provides an actual chart, you could look for anything that is in Libra. Among other things, the rising sign describes your public persona, so a Libra rising sign might account for it. Or having sevrral heavenly bodies in Libra could account for it. I have an Aries rising sign and it is the only fire sign in my chart. I have read that gives emphasis somehow to the fiery impression I make. Also, very strong aspects can play a role here, if they are mathematically tight.
There also decanates -- sub rulers for every ten degrees -- Arabian parts (mathematically calculated points of importance), and quite a lot more to explore than what typically gets talked about in "sun sign" astrology (have I mentioned yet that I hate sun sign astrology?)
tldr: No, you absolutely cannot possibly have a Libra sun sign. But there are a lot of other factors to consider in astrology which might account for you coming across like a Libran.
posted by Michele in California at 5:44 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I do not personally believe in astrology, but I do remember some hullabalo a couple of years back about zodiac signs shifting, mostly from friends' mock-horror Facebook status updates (What? I'm an X! I can't possibly be a Y!). And Googling, I found this article (among many), which basically sums up the story that I recall. It's much more recent than your astrologer friend's revelation, but perhaps this sort of thing was brewing in astrological circles for years before it hit the general public? By that method, if you are right on the cusp of being a Sagittarius, it seems you might be a Libra.
posted by tiger tiger at 6:29 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tiger tiger at 6:29 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: From my very limited understanding of astrology, your sun sign is only a small part of the equation, and your rising sign and moon and planets and all that have an influence too. I've heard the Ophiuchus discovery, but I don't think the thirteenth sign is widely accepted among astrologers.
I've been asked if I was a Libra, too. Libras are characterized as being even-keeled and great with people, relationships, and social settings. I can't help but wonder if Libra is the astrological sign most similar to how we like to present ourselves socially, and as a result it's the sign people are most likely to guess when they meet someone they click with. Just throwing that out there.
(For the record, I'm a Capricorn, and not a very good one. I might be an even worse Libra. A friend of mine did my complete chart once and it wasn't particularly on the nose, either.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:49 AM on July 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've been asked if I was a Libra, too. Libras are characterized as being even-keeled and great with people, relationships, and social settings. I can't help but wonder if Libra is the astrological sign most similar to how we like to present ourselves socially, and as a result it's the sign people are most likely to guess when they meet someone they click with. Just throwing that out there.
(For the record, I'm a Capricorn, and not a very good one. I might be an even worse Libra. A friend of mine did my complete chart once and it wasn't particularly on the nose, either.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:49 AM on July 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
From the article:
"They point out that this precession only affects "sidereal" astrology, a system commonly used in India and by other people with an interest in "Vedic" astrology. In this system signs do shift.
"People might be Aquarian under the tropical system but a Capricorn under the Vedic system," says astrologer Russell Grant."
So the article says if you want to do Vedic astrology from India, maybe so. If you are asking about Western astrology, according to the above linked article the answer is still "no." (I am commenting because I think the OP might have trouble extracting that info from the article.)
Chinese astrology is another system entirely and bases signs on birth "year" (though calculates the start of the year differently from the Western calender, probably in line with the Chinese new year). So if you are interested in astrology but do not like what western astrology has to say about you, there are other systems of astrological thought which you can explore. There is nothing wrong with exploring those systems of thought. I have my own personal pet theories about what western astrology gets wrong and how it should be done differently...blah blah blah. And that's one of the reasons I will never be a professional astrologer.
posted by Michele in California at 6:49 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
"They point out that this precession only affects "sidereal" astrology, a system commonly used in India and by other people with an interest in "Vedic" astrology. In this system signs do shift.
"People might be Aquarian under the tropical system but a Capricorn under the Vedic system," says astrologer Russell Grant."
So the article says if you want to do Vedic astrology from India, maybe so. If you are asking about Western astrology, according to the above linked article the answer is still "no." (I am commenting because I think the OP might have trouble extracting that info from the article.)
Chinese astrology is another system entirely and bases signs on birth "year" (though calculates the start of the year differently from the Western calender, probably in line with the Chinese new year). So if you are interested in astrology but do not like what western astrology has to say about you, there are other systems of astrological thought which you can explore. There is nothing wrong with exploring those systems of thought. I have my own personal pet theories about what western astrology gets wrong and how it should be done differently...blah blah blah. And that's one of the reasons I will never be a professional astrologer.
posted by Michele in California at 6:49 AM on July 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just returning to say that I somehow missed pipeski's post when I posted mine, but the 13-sign zodiac was indeed what I had in mind. And sorry, pipeski, for ignoring your contribution. I think it's kind of annoying when people post duplicate information without noticing someone else has already done so, which is exactly what I did.
posted by tiger tiger at 7:30 AM on July 26, 2013
posted by tiger tiger at 7:30 AM on July 26, 2013
You didn't give your birth year, but you might have a lot of planets in your 7th house.
PrimateFan, when I had my twin cousins' charts done, the astrologer told me his observation was that the younger twin always behaves more like the moon sign.
posted by brujita at 7:43 AM on July 26, 2013
PrimateFan, when I had my twin cousins' charts done, the astrologer told me his observation was that the younger twin always behaves more like the moon sign.
posted by brujita at 7:43 AM on July 26, 2013
If you've got a birthday from the 21s-23rd of any month, there's a strong chance that you're "on the cusp" between two signs. As such, you'd either have a mix of traits from both signs, or you might be more like the "other" sign despite being born a day early or late. Have you read about scorpios? You might be more of a scorpio.
You're definitely not "actually" a libra. Libras have September/October birthdays.
You might, however, have a lot of libra in your chart (there's a lot more to horoscopes than sun signs). Or you might have other things in your chart that cause you to take on a lot of libra traits.
Either way, it's all a silly game for fun. It doesn't actually matter whether you have the traits commonly ascribed to your sign. FWIW I've seen a lot of aspects of my chart that don't resonate with me at all, despite being an aries through and through.
posted by Sara C. at 8:28 AM on July 26, 2013
You're definitely not "actually" a libra. Libras have September/October birthdays.
You might, however, have a lot of libra in your chart (there's a lot more to horoscopes than sun signs). Or you might have other things in your chart that cause you to take on a lot of libra traits.
Either way, it's all a silly game for fun. It doesn't actually matter whether you have the traits commonly ascribed to your sign. FWIW I've seen a lot of aspects of my chart that don't resonate with me at all, despite being an aries through and through.
posted by Sara C. at 8:28 AM on July 26, 2013
I'm notoriously un-woo too, and always a skeptic at heart-- but I've always liked things like this and find them kinda fun and interesting. My Dad was into astrology, and he dabbled into a lot of the time, including charts and so on and so forth.
Thing is, I primarily identify with the typical characteristics of my sign, Aquarius -- eclectic, offbeat, intelligent, etc. It suits me to a T. But I could never understand why I had a small part of me that is loyal and nurturing instead of adventurous and flighty (although I have an adventurous streak). Until I figured out my ascendant -- it was Cancer, which is generally believed to be a kind of very maternal and nurturing sign. For me, well... I take it with a grain of salt, but certainly it made something click into place. It may well be your rising sign is Libra, it would be neat if it was.
Also, your actual birthday plays into it too; not all of the same signs have the same attributes. Cusps matter, amongst other things.
If you're curious, I recommend The Secret Language of Birthdays It's a really great book for this kind of thing. It's also kind of fun to look up everyone you know in it, to see if it applies or not. (The Relationship Book is a fun read, too).
posted by Dimes at 9:13 AM on July 26, 2013
Thing is, I primarily identify with the typical characteristics of my sign, Aquarius -- eclectic, offbeat, intelligent, etc. It suits me to a T. But I could never understand why I had a small part of me that is loyal and nurturing instead of adventurous and flighty (although I have an adventurous streak). Until I figured out my ascendant -- it was Cancer, which is generally believed to be a kind of very maternal and nurturing sign. For me, well... I take it with a grain of salt, but certainly it made something click into place. It may well be your rising sign is Libra, it would be neat if it was.
Also, your actual birthday plays into it too; not all of the same signs have the same attributes. Cusps matter, amongst other things.
If you're curious, I recommend The Secret Language of Birthdays It's a really great book for this kind of thing. It's also kind of fun to look up everyone you know in it, to see if it applies or not. (The Relationship Book is a fun read, too).
posted by Dimes at 9:13 AM on July 26, 2013
Everyone who has posted above is giving you good info. I have been a professional astrologer during my long and checkered career so I feel confident in sharing these things: there are many other traditions in astrology in addition to Western and Vedic; a person usually sees him- or herself as what their rising sign is and hey, did you know that you're a cusp? That means you're born on a date that is near the time the sun moves into the next sign. Cusp babies need to read the prior and subsequent signs because the date shifts from year to year. Also, if you're really interested, have your natal chart done. There is much more to a natal chart than sun sign and rising sign. You will need your date, place and time of birth to have an accurate natal chart drawn up. If you do that, you will see not only the placement of planets in signs but also in houses, and also of significance, the angles between planets. All these things have meaning in astrology.
posted by Lynsey at 10:24 AM on July 26, 2013
posted by Lynsey at 10:24 AM on July 26, 2013
Go put in your birth data at astro.com (I tried, but I need more information than you gave). See how much of your chart, if any, is in Libra. Maybe you have a rising sign or planets there?
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:16 AM on July 26, 2013
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:16 AM on July 26, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Kerasia at 2:33 AM on July 26, 2013 [2 favorites]