My husband temporarily lost his mind. Now what?
July 10, 2013 3:27 PM   Subscribe

Yesterday he used a handsaw to fell a mature, healthy 20 foot tall jacaranda in the middle of the back yard, because it was in his way. We don't own the house. How and when should we tell the owner? What is my husband's mental state and how do we cope, long term?

We've been in the house for 2 years and the owner lives out of state. We've had a great relationship with him thus far, he's very hands off unless something needs attention, then he takes care of it fairly promptly. The last thing I want to do is have to explain that my husband went crazy. I fear lawsuit, eviction, etc. How do I handle this situation with kid gloves?

This is all due to a project to which my husband and I are very dedicated and passionate about. We spent the weekend working on it in the back yard, and the tree was in the way of the project and frustrating him. I was content to continue working around it, but Monday when I got home it was down. I was shocked and gutted. This is way out of character for him. We both love the trees in the yard, he would never even consider carving his initials in a tree, let alone removing one completely. Not to mention all the legal aspects he was overlooking. He was completely focused on simply removing the obstacle and didn't understand the gravity of what he'd done until I got home and listed all the reasons this was a terrible decision, how angry and sad I was, and how frightened I was of his mental state - that he could spend the entire day doing something so irrational. Then he fell apart, realizing his enormous mistake, cried and apologized for being crazy.

He's not crazy, but it seems there is some disorder at work here, I just don't know what. He's smart, socially awkward and admittedly "a little weird." Before I knew him he suffered from bouts of depression. He very occasionally has short, spontaneous tantrums when he gets angry. This wasn't a tantrum and it wasn't depression, he's actually been very happy. It seems to be a monumental and prolonged lapse in judgment and ethics, and he's completely remorseful.

How do we proceed?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (59 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
To err is human. He erred. His remorse seems real and productive. Help him modulate any over reactions and if it bothers him after a while, encourage therapy. It isn't a big deal if it doesn't happen again.
posted by Mistress at 3:31 PM on July 10, 2013 [3 favorites]


Don't handle it for him, but make sure he makes it right.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:33 PM on July 10, 2013 [13 favorites]


Well the first thing is to contact the owner and explain what has happened, and see what the reaction is. The second is to consider whether you may be slightly overreacting as regards your fear of your husband's mental state simply because he thoughtlessly cut down a tree. I mean, it's an error of judgment to be sure, but it doesn't look to this outsider like some shocking red flag about mental health.
posted by modernnomad at 3:37 PM on July 10, 2013 [49 favorites]


wellll...on a practical note: jacaranda does grow really fast...replace immediately with the biggest one you can get and hope for the best? If the landlord is out of state and mainly views it as a rental property he might not even notice/care...it is in the back yard, right? The longer you stay, the better the odds of him not noticing... They tend to range in size quite a bit...how big across was the trunk? Under a foot?
posted by sexyrobot at 3:37 PM on July 10, 2013 [13 favorites]


I agree with Seanmpuckett, do not be the mother figure and try to solve his crazy for him. Part of preventing similar accidents from happening in the future is letting the person who erred be responsible for their own actions.

He needs to be the one to call the landlord and explain what he did, apologize, offer to do what is necessary to make it right, and follow through on it. This is how you truly stop irrational lapses like this from repeating, make the irrational person have to fix their own destruction.
posted by Shouraku at 3:41 PM on July 10, 2013 [10 favorites]


For the immediate problem, I'd check into what it would cost to replace the tree with a similar specimen, albeit younger and smaller. Then I'd call the landlord and relay the issue while steering clear of any language like "went crazy" or anything else that would undermine your landlord's confidence that you'll continue to live in his property without spontaneously lighting it on fire or something. Work out what the proper course of action would be (which you and your husband will foot the bill for, of course). Maybe the landlord might even be amenable to relocating the new tree to alleviate the issue you originally mentioned with its placement.

As for your husband. He did something stupid. Monumentally stupid. But we've all done that. Hell, if I had a nickel for every monumentally stupid thing that I had a moment of clarity about later, complete with the "I've made a huge mistake" look on my face, I could probably afford one of them fancy Starbucks drinks in the large size.

So I wouldn't blow it out of proportion. If it's a pattern of him making irrational decisions, that would be something to get concerned about. But for now? He did something dumb, he feels bad, let it blow over without getting too worked up about it.
posted by barc0001 at 3:41 PM on July 10, 2013 [15 favorites]


I feel like the language here -- "he went crazy," "so irrational," "monumental lapse in judgment" -- is hyperbolic and may be overamplifying the situation, perhaps because you're being driven by your fears of what the landlord will do. Because from what you've described here, I do not see this as literally "going crazy"; I see that, out of frustration, he got over-focused on something that presented itself as a solution that wasn't really a good solution.

It's a mistake, sure -- maybe even a big one -- but I think the very first thing you guys need to do is to stop framing it as if your husband has actually had some sort of psychotic break. It's shaming for him and panicking for the both of you, and very little good ever comes from shame or panic.

Then, once everyone's breathing returns to normal, I'd take a look at your lease to see if it mentions anything about cutting down trees or other relevant issues about the property, just to get an idea of where you might stand on that front. And on preview, seconding sexyrobot's suggestion to replace it (either on the sly, or after you've talked to the owner and offered it as a solution).
posted by scody at 3:42 PM on July 10, 2013 [71 favorites]


I would stop speculating about his mental state, especially since he at least realizes he made a mistake and is clearly upset about it.

Honestly, and just going based on the fact that you immediately decided that something must be wrong with his mental state and came here to write about it, I'm pretty sure your "mental state" is probably affecting his as well.

So both of you should calm down until he can tell the landlord in a calm manner.

It's a tree.
posted by fromageball at 3:42 PM on July 10, 2013 [15 favorites]


Unless there are other signs of changes in his mental health, I would not consider this the act of a crazy person. This is the act of an intensely focused person who didn't think through the consequences of his actions beyond "Will this kill anyone? Probably not!"

That in itself may be a problem -- that he allowed his focus to overcome his judgment -- but I think that one day, you may retell this story in a fit of laughter at his lack of common sense. You sound very upset right now, and that's OK. It's possible that there is something bigger going on. However, this is not a disaster. You'll get through this. It will be OK, he will be OK.
posted by samthemander at 3:45 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Also, you don't say what the backyard project is but if it permanentky enhances the property be sure to mention it in the context of your discussion with the landlord. It might help put the tree in perspective.
posted by janey47 at 3:46 PM on July 10, 2013


:ring ring:

Hello, landlord speaking.

Hi, it's anonymous' husband. I wanted to let you know I did something I shouldn't have - I cut down the tree in the front yard. It was something I shouldn't have done, but I was working on this project and it was in the way and I just got ahead of myself and cut it down. I'm sorry; I shouldn't have done it, and I want to make it right. I'd be happy to plant another in its place or, if you'd like something else there, that's fine too. Most of all I want you to know I'm sorry about this, and I want to do what I can to make it right.



....and then go from there.
posted by craven_morhead at 3:49 PM on July 10, 2013 [47 favorites]


You know this really sounds like something i would do. I almost feel weird posting this and admitting i'm "that guy whose irrational sometimes". I've "chopped down" my share of "trees that were in my way" in a fit of OHHELLNOFUCKTHIS.

I'm with modernnomad on this. I really don't think this is some alarming mental health issue. A lot of people make poor decisions when frustrated or angry about something that's repeatedly a thorn in their side or just abnormally frustrating.

I honestly think it's a bit of a personality flaw, and some people are just more susceptible to throwing down the gaunlet like that than others. I've slowly gotten better over the years, but sometimes stuff still really gets to me.

Focus on just talking to him about it, and not acting like he had a psychotic break or being really condescending like he was being a child and you have TEH SUPERIOR JUDGEMENTS. Talk to him and see how he ended up at that point, and what was going on when it happened. It'll probably make a lot more sense to you once you're not just freaking out(which honestly, this post makes it sound like you're adding a lot of drama to this situation)

So, yea, as for the tree... just replace it and don't say anything to the landlord. Trees can be fairly expensive(Like, mid thousands), but you break it you buy it. Having dealt with a bunch of landlords in weird situations like this i feel like contacting them instead of just fixing it is only a route to prolonging and enhancing the "drama" that's been created here.
posted by emptythought at 3:49 PM on July 10, 2013 [7 favorites]


I agree with the other comments that your reaction seems out of proportion. If you are as worried about your husband's mental state as you seem to be, you should talk to him about seeing his GP.
posted by Specklet at 3:50 PM on July 10, 2013 [3 favorites]


I don't think you are necessarily being hyperbolic. If my tree-loving SO randomly cut down a tree? I would be thinking the same exact thing. It would weird in the extreme, to Twilight Zone levels. I'd stay aware of how he is doing, and how he handles the situation, and how he acts in the next few weeks. If he doesn't do anything else out of character, then perhaps you can chalk it up to a temper tantrum. Good luck replacing the tree, which I think is probably the best thing to do at this point.
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 3:56 PM on July 10, 2013 [10 favorites]


My husband's impulsivity (that often manifested in destructive household projects) got a lot better once he started treatment for ADD and depression.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:57 PM on July 10, 2013 [6 favorites]


He just sounds a like a person who got caught up in the moment and did something dumb. He then apologised for it. That's pretty much it.

If you think the landlord is reasonable, say that the tree accidentally got cut down and offer to replace it if they want you to. Just be matter of fact and yet apologetic about it all.
posted by heyjude at 4:00 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


If my partner did this I'd be thinking "oh, crap, the bipolar meds are out of adjustment again, time to call the shrink." So I absolutely get why you are leaping straight to mental health. But if this is truly a standalone thing and you don't see any other irrational behavior I would try not to worry about it. (I mean, if it'll make either of you sleep better at night, ask him to go get a checkup. A checkup never hurts. But don't rush straight to the psychatric care center or anything.)

You've been there long enough the landlord probably knows you're reliable, stand-up tenants. That's worth a lot more than a tree. Offer to replace it (or relocate it, or whatever) and carry on. Feel free to sit on things a few days until you're calmer - waiting a few days won't change anything at this point.
posted by Stacey at 4:03 PM on July 10, 2013


Personally I wouldn't bother telling tell the landlord. If he notices at some point sure, then tell him "it was causing a problem and we had to remove it", but this is your house and presumably you're responsible for looking after the property. Therefore dealing with the trees is your issue. I'm a life-long renter and, while I've never had to do anything to a large tree besides a hard prune, I have removed or replaced plenty of other plants. No landlord I've ever had has cared and that includes the ones that used to help out with the garden. Replace yours if you want to, don't if it really is in the way.

And if you really must tell the landlord don't ring him up and go on about how you did something wrong, you might as well write him a letter saying "please screw me over in every way you can think of". Just get your husband to tell him in a matter of fact way that you guys had a problem with a tree and had to remove it, and does he want you to replace it or what.

As for your husband's mental state, there's either something really missing from your story or you've totally freaked out and overreacted. Showing poor judgement on one occasion (and frankly, cutting down a tree that's in the way isn't that big a deal in the first place) isn't evidence for 'some disorder'. Seriously, wtf? If you really are worried then get him to see a medical professional and leave the diagnosing up to them. In the meantime, take a step back and let your own blood pressure settle a bit so that you guys can talk about this more calmly and without the accusations.
posted by shelleycat at 4:08 PM on July 10, 2013 [18 favorites]


Is there a way to spin this in a positive light? For example, if you bought another tree and planted it in a different spot that wasn't right in the middle (and wouldn't be an obstacle for future projects), could you spin that as an improvement of the space? Using the approach mentioned above about "Got ahead of myself and removed the tree without asking," with the addition of "I have replaced the tree in a position that allows better flow/movement/visibility in the yard" or something like that.
posted by bleep at 4:08 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wait. what? He sawed down a tree that he shouldn't have and that makes you concerned about his mental state?

It seems to be a monumental and prolonged lapse in judgment and ethics, and he's completely remorseful.

He cut down a tree. I love trees, but there is either a very large amount of missing information here, or I really think you should look at your role in reacting to this so strongly.
posted by cnc at 4:11 PM on July 10, 2013 [9 favorites]


Maybe seek some legal advice before contacting the landlord. A lawyer can provide some advice about how to word such a communication.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:21 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


I guess for people who live in areas where tall, healthy trees abound, it may seem like no biggie. If you live in such an area, OP, then taking a more moderate stance toward your husband's behavior might be sensible.

If, like me, you live in an area where lovely tall trees are precious, and where there are city ordinances in place to protect trees (permits required for trimming, much less removal, of some types of trees), then oh my god, I would be questioning my partner's mental state if he sawed down a 20-footer. Yikes. I'm having a hard time seeing this as just a "Dude, my bad." level of mistake. I'd be concerned.

In terms of how to proceed: others have already suggested the fair approach: research cost of replacement; contact landlord; offer to replace the tree to the best of your ability and/or offer to add something else of value to the house/yard. Landlord may turn out to be totally cool with the tree being gone; or if not, may prefer to be compensated in some other way than direct replacement of the tree.
posted by nacho fries at 4:21 PM on July 10, 2013 [9 favorites]


Personally I wouldn't bother telling tell the landlord. If he notices at some point sure, then tell him "it was causing a problem and we had to remove it", but this is your house and presumably you're responsible for looking after the property. Therefore dealing with the trees is your issue.

I don't know about that. At least in the province where I live, municipalities have some pretty strict by-laws about tree removal, even on private property.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:22 PM on July 10, 2013 [8 favorites]


Trees also add to (or subtract from) the assessed value of the property. This could actually be a pretty serious issue, hence the suggestion to at least spend an hour with a lawyer.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:23 PM on July 10, 2013 [12 favorites]


At least in the province where I live, municipalities have some pretty strict by-laws about tree removal, even on private property.

Yeah, same where I was living until I moved overseas a couple of years ago. Actually, I bet mine were stricter. But it's still a matter between the tenant and the local council, not something you have to go crawling to the landlord about. Also still not evidence of a mental disorder.
posted by shelleycat at 4:25 PM on July 10, 2013


Also in favor of consulting a lawyer. People get eviction notices for much less destructive behavior.
posted by nacho fries at 4:25 PM on July 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


I don't think you're overreacting. It is very very very unsettling when your spouse does something completely wrong, that can't be justified by any rational thought and that certainly wouldn't have happened if you'd been there to stop him. The trust issues that this raises are significant. ("Does my husband now require constant supervision"?) One time I left my spouse at home all day, and came to find out that they'd drilled 5 neat holes into the bathtub drainpipe. I already knew they were in a non-normal or healthy mental state, but it was a particularly irritating manifestation of it.
And as suggested above, I made the spouse deal with all the responsibilities of fixing it and apologizing to the downstairs neighbor.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 4:26 PM on July 10, 2013 [6 favorites]


Oh and I'm not disagreeing with the lawyer advice if that seems necessary to the OP. But that doesn't change any of my other advice.
posted by shelleycat at 4:27 PM on July 10, 2013


Many years ago I climbed through a neighbor's apartment window to retrieve a UPS package they had taken delivery of for me. I needed to re-ship it urgently and they were away, so in a moment of poor judgement I opened the window and went in and got it. Later I realized what an idiotic thing I had done, and of course I was very embarrassed and profusely apologetic when they asked me how I got the package. Luckily they didn't press charges against me! The point is, we all have done stupid and embarrassing things in our lives and it doesn't mean we are mentally ill or weird or deficient. It simply means we are living life in the real world instead of inside a cardboard box. Your husband can be forgiven by you and himself. Hopefully the landlord will accept a heartfelt apology that includes an offer to pay for a new tree.
posted by Dansaman at 4:34 PM on July 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


I feel like you are very much overreacting to a lapse in judgement. It's just a tree albeit a very pretty one. Jacaranda trees take 4-6 years to reach mature height and 2 year old trees are sold at Lowes for about $50, so stop panicking and go buy another tree. Unless this lapse in judgement is surrounded by other things you haven't told us your husband isn't crazy, he just got tunnel vision for a project. Take a deep breathe, cut him some slack and let him plant a new tree.
posted by julie_of_the_jungle at 4:35 PM on July 10, 2013 [3 favorites]


Pathologising one incident of abhorrent behaviour is not helpful.

I also think this whole "he fucked up, make him be responsible for his mess" suggestion is parental and infantilising. You two are a team, someone on the team fucked up, whatever - that's an internal issue, but you should approach your landlord together.

Also, don't use language like "accidentally cut down." It was not an accident, and describing it as such is the language of a ducking child and sounds very much like avoidance of responsibility.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:40 PM on July 10, 2013 [7 favorites]


Like Squeak Attack said, my husband's hair-trigger irrational frustration outbursts occasionally accompanied by poor impulse control improved immensely (like, we'd be divorced now if that business had gone on much longer than it did, and now it is something I never worry about) when he got treatment for ADD.

In my life, it would not be overreacting to be extremely bothered and worried by this behavior. We have rented and been landlords and we're both pretty clear on what is and isn't a reasonable change to make to property. If I couldn't leave the house trusting my husband wouldn't get mad and do property damage*, it would be a quality of life issue. Going to talk to his prescribing physician would be a non-negotiable next step, among other things. If your husband isn't on any medication, maybe he needs to bring this up with someone with the professional credentials to discuss it with him.

*Maybe this is where I'm more sensitive than some other posters, having in the past dated wall-punchers? If you can "forget" about basic conventions long enough to GET A SAW and CUT DOWN A TREE, I'm going to question my general safety.

(I disagree that you should approach the landlord together. That would freak me the hell out. Your husband should deal with this, and he should feel free to mention that his wife, the other tenant and person responsible for the property, is really very uncool with what happened. Otherwise, I would end up assuming the inside of the house looks like the primate enclosure at the zoo, and you're just telling me about the tree now because a neighbor/drive-by/Google Maps might tell me about it. In the end, the landlord may not even care, trees die and blow over and get struck by lightning and stuff, so the more worrisome angle is the potential pattern of alterations without permission.)
posted by Lyn Never at 4:52 PM on July 10, 2013 [11 favorites]


He very occasionally has short, spontaneous tantrums when he gets angry. This wasn't a tantrum.

Yes, it was. You guys were working on a project, the tree was impeding it, that was really frustrating, and a tantrum was had in which the tree got what for. I love trees too, but this wasn't a 200 year old oak. This is fixable. It's all going to be okay.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 5:08 PM on July 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


Mod note: A couple of comments deleted; psychoanalyzing the OP or disputing their account of what happened is not what AskMe is for. Constructive answers only please.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:24 PM on July 10, 2013


I'm a landlord, and my tenants did, in fact, cut down trees on my property. I was irritated not because they had cut down the trees, but because a) they didn't ask first; b) they did it themselves, instead of contacting a professional; c) I heard about it from a neighbor instead of them. Property values aside, I had visions of incredulous insurance adjusters dancing in my head. ("A tree fell on your house? While your tenant was cutting it down without permission? Really?") That being said: I didn't evict my tenants!

So, with my landlord's hat on: no, don't hide this from the landlord, as s/he will be...bemused...if they discover that their property has magically lost a tree. No, don't describe the incident using words like "crazy." Yes, if you're calm and have had good relations with the landlord, things should be fine. Yes, you may have to pay some extra $, because, well, that was the landlord's property that toppled over. Yes, propose replacing the tree (somewhere else?). And yes, if the project will add permanent value to the home, bring that up.
posted by thomas j wise at 5:53 PM on July 10, 2013 [6 favorites]


Jacarandas do grow fast, but they're not cheap - some mature ones recently sold in the L.A. area fetched between 6-12k each.

Apologize, offer to replace.

Also, stop using "crazy" as a word in this situation. If your husband needs help, calling what he was feeling and how he was feeling "crazy" may stigmatize going to see someone and will certainly help neither of you figure out what to do next.
posted by arnicae at 6:14 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


I understand why you're concerned. It's not just the tree, but that he had the obsession to cut it down with a handsaw--this must have taken hours! I wouldn't tell the landlord that he went crazy, but you're going to have to replace it, get the old stump out and get a new tree professional planted--make sure your husband handles this, if you trust him to do it. And you might have a neurologist take a look--could have been a small stroke or some other temporary brain injury. It's not a normal "oh let's eat all the cookies" wacky impulse.
posted by Ideefixe at 6:19 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


As a landlord, I ditto thomas j wise. I sure do know and care about the condition of trees on the property, so please do tell them. I'd notice if one were replaced and be nonplussed if that happened without an explanation and apology. An apology and desire to make it right would go a long way.
posted by slidell at 6:32 PM on July 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


Has he ever destroyed property before, or committed other serious lapses in judgement? I think it makes a difference if this is an isolated incident or not.
posted by BibiRose at 6:48 PM on July 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


For what it's worth, my father is one of the most serious, boring law-abiding people there is -- he never jaywalks, always drives under the speed limit, etc. He is also not at all into yardwork or power tools. When I was a teenager, he and I would practice driving at the local DMV test site during off hours but I was horrible at parallel parking because I was jumpy about getting too close to a tree just by the curb and scratching the car, so I kept pulling up 6 inches short.

One evening after two weeks of repeated failure, my father turned to me and asked if I would be ok driving around the lot by myself. Sure, I said and drove off, not interested until I realized he'd pulled a chainsaw from the back of the car and was chopping the tree down himself. Later he and my mother were absolutely horrified, but he's never done anything like it again or shown signs of mental illnesses. He just got caught up in his mental leap that a tree was standing in the way of my ability to parallel park and if the tree was gone, surely everything would work out ... !

Obviously your husband isn't my father, and your husband's behavior may well have been out of character but there's a big difference between punching a hole in a wall because ARGH RAGE vs THIS TREE IS SO ANNOYING LET'S GET RID OF IT RIGHT NOW. If he's genuinely remorseful, handles the landlord on his own and this doesn't happen again, it seems like a pretty normal screwup to me, not something pathological.
posted by angst at 7:12 PM on July 10, 2013 [6 favorites]


I would be really freaked out by this, if I was in your shoes. You have to be the calm, rational one in this situation, because your husband isn't. It isn't a normal act to cut down a perfectly good, healthy, adult tree because it's in the way (and a Jacaranda, no less, one of the most beautiful trees), no matter the project you were working on. I would find a new Jacaranda to replace it, and let your husband know you're concerned because this is not a healthy or sane reaction to the situation. If there are any further incidents similar to this, I'd be asking him to seek help because that is not a normal, healthy, sane reaction to the situation. The landlord is a different story - I'd not say anything if the landlord is overseas or not otherwise likely to find out about this. But your husband? I'd be keeping a close eye on his behaviours from now on.

I hope this was a one-off, for both of your sakes.
posted by goo at 7:39 PM on July 10, 2013


this isn't the end of the world and i really don't think your husband is crazy. yeah, what he did was not terribly bright or showing much foresight but that is just impulsive and not too bright. there probably isn't anything to diagnose here--at least not on the psychotic/crazycakes end of the spectrum unless there is a clear pattern of this sort of behavior. i agree with the others that have said this was in fact due to anger. he got angry the tree was in the way so bye bye tree. just call your landlord and work out a replacement for the tree. the bill will surely serve as a big lesson learned for your husband who will probably not make any more expensive, impulsive decisions like this. end of story.
posted by wildflower at 8:37 PM on July 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Now _I_ am feeling crazy since most people in this thread don't think it's a big deal....

If I came home and found that my spouse had cut down the tree in our rental backyard without asking the landlord I would be extremely concerned about their mental health and good judgement.

You obviously know your husband more than we do, but I support your concern.

Something is amiss.

Doctor, therapy? Don't know which is right option, but I would definitely watch for any escalation in this type of behavior.
posted by bottlebrushtree at 10:18 PM on July 10, 2013 [12 favorites]


A twenty foot jacaranda has a sizable trunk to chop through with a handsaw. That's a long while to forget that you're destroying someone else's property.

At that size, a jacaranda is just getting to the point where it forms its mature shape and provides shade. Mature trees are good for property values and your husband's behavior damaged your landlord's asset. Don't try to replace it with some teensy thing and hope your landlord doesn't notice. I'm not sure what your budget is, but replacing a mature tree will be expensive.

Husband needs to see a doctor and talk through what happened. It may simply be a lapse in judgement, but it was certainly odd behavior. Since it's out of character it's worth asking if there's an underlying medical or emotional problem.
posted by 26.2 at 12:04 AM on July 11, 2013 [7 favorites]


I think it's very troubling behavior. It's like something a teenager would do out of anger. if your husband is a grown man who cannot manage his emotions and frustrations properly without doing crazy destructive shit like this, then it's time to get him to a counselor or anger management.

Also, echoing others, don't try to be his mother and soothe him/caretake over this unless you want him to think doing something destructive to vent his rage is okay as long as it is followed by remorse. Your husband needs to be a grown up who can manage his frustration, whether or not he's weird or offbeat.
posted by discopolo at 12:52 AM on July 11, 2013 [5 favorites]


To address the questions, "How and when should we tell the owner? What is my husband's mental state and how do we cope, long term? How do we proceed?

Craven_Morhead's "script" covers it pretty well.

(The notion of lying, being deceptive or doing something "on the sly" is shoddy -- and a lot of people would be more displeased by that than the thing that happened. People in all sorts of contexts suffer more for attempted cover-ups than they would have for the thing they tried to cover up.)

None of us can rationally comment on your husband's mental state, though a reasonable concern that he destroyed someone else's property, and something one might reasonably look at as having considerable (property) value.

At the risk of stating the obvious, hard to see a downside in at least a modicum of counseling for your husband.
posted by ambient2 at 2:12 AM on July 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


What is my husband's mental state

I guess I'll go against the grain and say crazy. Crazy enough to find a saw, come back, start sawing, keep sawing, keep sawing, keep sawing, saw saw saw, tim-berr, move it out of the way, ok, back to The Project, it's all cool, nothing happened, it's just a two storey tree I don't own, yeah baby, doin' The Projeohmygodsobsobsob.

That ain't normal. I'd see a doctor.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:48 AM on July 11, 2013 [14 favorites]


(Incidentally, if I was your landlord, you'd be out. A momentary, out of character lapse, you say? That's awful. Now pack up and get out before he momentarily out of character demolishes an internal load-bearing wall. You're right to be freaked out about this.)
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:55 AM on July 11, 2013 [13 favorites]


I do see your husbands actions as a maybe potential warning sign of something else; going through the long, rigorous process of chopping down a mature tree is a bit more involved than throwing an expensive appliance against the wall or something. However neither we nor you are qualified to assess if it really was a momentary lapse or a symptom of anything else. Stop using the word crazy. Don't use accusatory tone when discussing the matter or express disbelief at your husband's actions to him during the discussion. Practice, practice, practice and express calmly that you understand that he understands this was out of character and a mistake, you accept his apology, you will stand by him while dealing with the legal/monetary implications, however since you both agree this was different from his normal behavior you need him to see his GP or his mental health professional if he saw one for his depression to discuss the incident, just as a check up. Come from your place of concern, do not judge or act angrily, and if he is initially averse to the idea restate that you have this need because you care about him, and you know he wouldn't have done this intentionally. Compare it, if need be, to mentioning a mysterious pain to the doctor during a check up. Reassure that you intend to be supportive no matter the outcome of the visit, and reassure that it is likely just accidental frustration. Accept what the doctor says as fact after the appointment and let the matter rest.

As per the tree, research the cost of replacing the tree to see if it would be feasible to offer and contact a lawyer about the matter before calling the owner.
posted by itsonreserve at 5:33 AM on July 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm blown away by all the responses in this thread saying it's not big deal. My reaction would be very much the same as yours, OP. You don't just cut down a friggin' TREE. You just DON'T. I agree that using the word "crazy" isn't helping the situation, but damn, it IS crazy. I would be extremely worried about the likelihood of a repeat incident, as well as the thought process that led up to and during the felling of the tree. I mean, it had have taken him at least a couple hours of concentrated, steady work to fell it, right? That's an awfully long time to not once step back and realize, yeah, this is nuts, let's find another solution or just take a deep breath and deal.

My dad has a lifelong history of anger management issues and they almost always involve taking out his rage on inanimate objects (for sake of argument, let's include trees in this category) and I can easily imagine him doing something like this, sadly. But it's only ever been to his own property. Nthing everyone else who says lawyer up for an hour or two before contacting the landlord, and it's worth touching base with a doctor/therapist/counselor/something to dissect what exactly happened and what was going through his mind during the incident.
posted by anderjen at 6:47 AM on July 11, 2013 [7 favorites]


I feel weird too, because I'd be hotting my husband to a doc before you could say TIMBER!

You need to get him evaluated, see a neurologist, especially if this is totally out of character for your husband. This ain't normal.

Once you have a difinitive answer as to your husbands mental and physical health, THEN you have something to go to the landlord with.

If your husband has a legitimate issue, you can say, "Landlord, I'm so sorry, but Husband has been sick lately. One manifestation of this is that he took down the Jacaranda tree. He's getting treatment, so there's no concern of any future issues, but I did want to discuss this with you because we want to make it right."

If your husband is given a clean bill of health, you don't really have an excuse for this. "Landlord, I'm so sorry, Husband had a severe lack of judgement and felled the Jacaranda tree. What can we do to make it right?"

Either way, be prepared to be evicted, although if there's documentation that this was due to your husband's illness, there may be more leeway.

Man though, I'd get my husband to a doctor pronto because this is NOT a NORMAL reaction to frustration.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:02 AM on July 11, 2013 [4 favorites]


Also, please take your safety seriously around your husband. I'm not saying he's going to hurt you, but he did feel justified at cutting that tree down until you made him realize it was a problem.

I know you love him and as a good wife may want to write it off as temporary insanity and believe your love and guidance through this incident may teach him to never do it again, but being a good, supportive, loving, nonjudgmental and concerned wife may not be your safest option. You could not guess ahead of time that he would do such a thing. He waited until you'd left to do it (would he have done it in your presence?), then thought it wasn't a big deal until you had to explain it to him.

He could have seriously hurt someone or the house by chopping that tree down. He gave into anger over reason. Now you're left cleaning up the mess after having to point out the mess.

I encourage men and women to stay away from emotionally unpredictable people. You may think he might not be able to hurt you, but you shamed him over the tree and emotionally unpredictable people sometimes start to hate people who make them feel ashamed.

Tread carefully and be vigilant. I know how it is to want to see the person you love as innocent and empathize, but he's likely not temporarily insane. This is destructive and unmanaged emotion that he believed was justified and no big deal until you came home and told him why it was a big deal.
posted by discopolo at 9:15 AM on July 11, 2013 [2 favorites]


Whether he experienced a mental episode or not, your reaction to his behavior was not helpful. Berating him until he cries is not a great strategy whether he's mentally ill or whether he's 100% fine and just did something dumb.

If there is something wrong with him, you are going to need to step up and deal with it rationally and calmly, rather than exacerbating the situation.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:56 PM on July 11, 2013 [5 favorites]


Following a similar mental thread to the "this is not a one time thing" above...

Another useful thing to think about, once again, as a guy whose done stuff like this...

Is this really the first incident like this you can think of? This is more of an impulse control thing than anything. Have you ever arrived home to having a brand new tv/laptop you couldn't afford suddenly replacing the old one that was being flaky? Or something frustrating thrown out?

Go through every memory of something "slightly weird" you can possibly think of, because i'd be somewhat amazed if this was really a one time incident. This is likely just the most WOAH HOLY SHIT visible one.

Because yea, i had a Big Obvious Thing like this(Which if my partner was on MeFi, i could see her posting a thread about), but there were many small ones in the past that i had rationalized before the big completely irrational You Can't Do That one. And they were all stuff that was probably pretty much forgotten a few days later or even not really noticed by anyone but me, or anyone but her.

But now that you're looking at it through this lens, and in this context... Is this really the only "out of character" moment like this? Because i'm betting it's more in character than you're thinking, but just rather egregious in general.
posted by emptythought at 1:22 PM on July 11, 2013 [3 favorites]


You can actually buy replacement trees. There are tree farmers that will sell fairly mature trees at a price. Depends how big the tree is. You could offer to replace it.
posted by htid at 9:36 PM on July 11, 2013


If my husband did this, I would be very concerned and I think you're justified in feeling unsettled. I don't think it would be an overreaction to see a mental health professional. I would prioritize finding medical help for your husband, over dealing with your landlord. Make sure hubby is checked out first, then tackle the landlord issue after if there's no immediate danger to the house. (Make sure tree debris and limbs aren't posing any hazard either.)

This seems to go beyond poor judgement or bad temper. The amount of time and effort that went into using a hand tool! That is different than smashing a cell phone or kicking something over. Only a professional can answer the question of bad decision vs mental health issue for you.
posted by dottiechang at 10:52 PM on July 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


It sounds like he exhibited extremely poor problem solving skills in choosing to spend hours destroying something expensive that didn't belong to him to save a few minutes of extra maneuvering here and there on the project. Even if you owned the house, and he didn't care about trees one way or the other, it wouldn't have been a good solution.

You say he's smart, if he's suddenly started making harebrained decisions often, it's possible that this is an early sign of dementia or Alzheimers. Characterizing his current mental state as "crazy" isn't going to help get the right sort of medical exam he should have at this point.
posted by yohko at 6:00 PM on July 12, 2013 [3 favorites]


Your description of your husband as being hyperfocused on this project, socially awkward, a little weird, and having tantrums occasionally makes me wonder if he possibly has a social learning disorder, such as Asperger's. In the context of the tree-chopping, it sounds like he had difficulty seeing how his actions might affect others (the landlord, you, the neighbors) because he was overly focused on his own need to get the tree out of the way. This isn't necessarily a break with reality, just a failure to see the larger context for his actions. I would maybe discuss this calmly with him and look together to see if you can find other examples of this type of thing happening - not necessarily anything so big as destruction of property, but times when he has had trouble understanding social nuance or has had difficulty seeing or understanding others' points of view. If this does seem to describe him, he may want to be evaluated by a qualified mental health provider.

I am a psychologist, but I am not your psychologist.
posted by aspen1984 at 8:09 PM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]


If I did this myself, I would get myself to the doctor. Probably not a big deal but it can't hurt to be checked out.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:30 AM on July 15, 2013


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