I get knocked down, how do I get back up again?

June 29, 2013 8:59 PM

Can you help me get going again? Over the last decade or so, I feel like I have just been stagnating and everything that was important to me (career, health) seems to be going downhill... can you help me get started again?

I am a PhD student and although I am close to finishing in a couple of months, I feel like a complete failure. I don't even want to continue in research any more and will probably go back to my clinical roots after this is over.

Although I've worked hard throughout my PhD and have decent results, I don't have any publications so far, which of course will not get me any recognition or job. I will have at least two manuscripts, maybe three from my results but whether they will ever be published or not - I don't know. I'd rather not write much about it for fear of being identified but the lack of publications is because of my boss' procrastination rather than whether the results are publishable (I know because I've presented at international conferences to very good feedback but the manuscripts sit on his desk languishing, for months. He has issues with procrastination and he himself admits it but does nothing - whole another story). At this point, I just want to get out of here. Just get out with my degree and never ever look back to this time of my life again.

My problem, I guess, is that I just feel really bitter about it, about life. I had high expectations out of the career in research since I'd always excelled at things and really enjoyed research. I still do, but the lack of tangible success at the end of all these years is extremely disheartening. After everything I've been through, I just don't want to subject myself to this misery any more (I went through bad depression). I left my country to come here to study, have been in a long-distance marriage for much of my marriage, worked really hard and I have nothing to show for it.

I struggled with suicidal depression through all of 2011, and 12 because of all this and although it got better with antidepressants, it just broke me down and now nothing feels like it matters. I am not on antidepressants any more (I stopped in Jan '13), but I don't think my current issues are depression, or maybe they are, but I just don't want the meds again (husband and I'd like to conceive soon... so I wanted to stop the meds; the trying to conceive is another source of worry - I'm almost 35)

I feel like I've just lost the resilient spirit I had. Resilience was my biggest strength and there's nothing I do anymore that to me feels like is worth it.

I've also gained about 50 lbs in the last 3 years. My only source of comfort it seems is food. I know all the other ways I should try to comfort myself instead - exercise, talk to people I care about, volunteer, etc etc., all those don't help! And although my weight is cause for endless anxiety, I just can't take consistent steps to get fit again. I really feel ashamed of myself for all this.

All in all, I just don't recognize who I've changed into in the last couple of years. I started out fairly successfully, and now a couple years later I'm at the bottom of the heap - physically, mentally, financially, and in my career. I'm just so ashamed of myself that I've cut contact with most of the people I knew over the last 2-3 years.

I know two things will be the start of turning things around (1) consistently working on the dissertation and getting finished with my degree, because it will help me get out of the self-esteem drain that is my boss and work, and let me finally start living with my husband; and, (2) consistently working on my health to be fit again. But I feel so ashamed at how far down I've fallen from where I used to be, and the anxiety surrounding all my failures so far that I can't seem to be able to pick myself up again. I try and then fall back again to doing nothing...

Do you have any suggestions that can help? I'm sorry if this post is a jumbled rant. I feel like I am not thinking clearly enough. What can I do to feel and do better?

posted by greta_01 to Health & Fitness (17 answers total)

I feel like I've just lost the resilient spirit I had. Resilience was my biggest strength and there's nothing I do anymore that to me feels like is worth it.

Maybe you are just burnt out/tired? You are going through a stressful time.

Acknowledge what you've achieved - you've nearly completed your PhD, you're married - and the potentials - you want to start a family - and what you know you don't want right now - to continue with what you've been doing.

Also acknowledge the things that are out of your control - your boss's poor performance, that the antidepressants are probably responsible for your weight gain.

Put together a list of all the things you want to do from now on: e.g. finish degree, work out x times per week, etc.

Once you identify what you want to do next, rather than what's going on right now, you can focus your attention on moving towards those things.
posted by heyjude at 9:50 PM on June 29, 2013 [2 favorites]

This paragraph jumped out at me:

I struggled with suicidal depression through all of 2011, and 12 because of all this and although it got better with antidepressants, it just broke me down and now nothing feels like it matters. I am not on antidepressants any more (I stopped in Jan '13), but I don't think my current issues are depression, or maybe they are, but I just don't want the meds again (husband and I'd like to conceive soon... so I wanted to stop the meds; the trying to conceive is another source of worry - I'm almost 35)

Did you stop your meds with your doctor's understanding? Stopping medication so close on the heels of prolonged suicidal depression seems like a bad plan. Please talk to your doctor.

Did you stop because you are TTC? I'm thinking....A) Maybe with all that is going on, trying to get pregnant right now isn't a great idea; and B) There are a number of anti-depressants that are considered fairly safe to use during pregnancy. Talk to your doctor.

A good marriage and a nearly-complete PhD at 35 is a lot of good in your life. Yay, you! I really think your feelings of being a failure right now are just bad brain chemicals talking. Again....DOCTOR!

(FWIW, I'm a PhD student mother of two who stayed on Zoloft during my second pregnancy under my doctor's advice.)
posted by pantarei70 at 9:58 PM on June 29, 2013 [4 favorites]

My counselor recently told me that depression loves idleness. Down time allows us to swim in our negative thoughts and take us to worst case scenarios.

You CAN, for example, get a great research job with a PhD even if you haven't published. Two (possibly three) manuscripts is nothing to scoff at.

In addition, I know many - perhaps too many - PhD students who struggle to get finished. I hear them all in my head saying that it's the most miserable process ever. By the end, they are no longer trying to be accomplished academics, just ones who can cross the finish line.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you are not alone. You feel alone, and that is so important to acknowledge, but there are hundreds and hundreds before you who have also felt this desperation while working on the PhD.

Hang in there! You are not a failure. You are a doing a doctorate, and it can absolutely suck.
posted by frizz at 10:00 PM on June 29, 2013 [3 favorites]

It's not just you. Grad school can be a really dysfunctional place.

Have you been doing talk therapy along with the antidepressants? If not, please consider it.
posted by Orinda at 10:03 PM on June 29, 2013

There are many many many many people who get destroyed by PhD programs. It's awful and I'm sorry you're going through this.

In my experience, everybody who was miserable in graduate school ended up much happier within a year of leaving their program. And the ones who quit academia ended up the happiest of all.
posted by eisenkr at 10:15 PM on June 29, 2013

I'm a big believer in the combo of meds + talk therapy. One without the other may be helpful, but they're more powerful when combined.

Don't be ashamed of yourself for feeling this way, though. Sometimes people get depressed, anxious or just burnt out. You don't need to be suicidal to be experiencing a depression, though. Talk to your doctor.

Maybe all of this is due to the combination of stressors in your life. Moving from your country, in a phd program, working a job you dislike and being separated from your husband is a really tough situation. Please find some time to treat yourself nicely. You are working hard, and you deserve it.
posted by fireandthud at 10:29 PM on June 29, 2013

Do a few small things to start the ball rolling (although I acknowledge that you are dealing with some large stresses that others are giving good advice on). When I hated my job and had become quite unhealthy, I added two pieces of fruit and a 30 min walk per day (walk to school, get off the bus early or park further away). Just a few little changes, one or two at a time, started to give me back a sense of control and achievement. When you are already down, it is hard to kick start major changes and keep them up, but very little things, bit by bit, are more doable.
posted by AnnaRat at 10:55 PM on June 29, 2013 [1 favorite]

I think one of the depressing things about exercise is also one of its strengths: you have to keep doing it. The disadvantage is rather obvious. But the advantage is that every day is a fresh slate. So you had a day when you didn't do any exercise? Oh well, today is a fresh start on the exercise front. You can do a lot or a little or whatever you have time for. You get many chances to decide, it's not an all-or-nothing decision that is critical to get right.

I should mention that I am pretty abysmal on the exercise front, I find it utterly boring and have no motivation to do it. But trying to make it seem like not such a big thing helps for me, maybe it will help for you too.

Good luck, it sounds like you've got a lot of stress but also a lot of things in your favour.
posted by Athanassiel at 11:19 PM on June 29, 2013

One thing at a time. You are within 2months of your PhD; all your life up to now has led you to this time. You can tough out 2 more months.
Then baby and/or employment. Women in their 50s are having babies. Don't sweat the ticking clock. You will not be THAT much older in 2 months when you have your degree and that stress is over.
I have no experience with depression or the drugs for it. But your doctor does.
posted by Cranberry at 11:25 PM on June 29, 2013 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Random thoughts....

* How long were you on antidepressants? Are you familiar with the serious lifestyle problems many have coming off these drugs? The doctors like to say that your depression has returned, when the the fact is these drugs have altered your brain chemistry and getting back to a state of feeling "normal" can be very difficult for some (maybe most).
http://survivingantidepressants.org

* As for your feeling you have "wasted" your time...please understand that everybody has their peaks and valleys. You may not know about them - but few are spared from valleys of darkness that last longer for some. Everything you have experienced through these trying times will one day be a source of strength and even, believe it or not, wisdom.

* Remember that your new life begins the day you decide it's time to put the past to bed. The bitterness you feel about your life is something many can relate to. However, you must remember that yesterday has as much significance on your future as anything else in history, say, the fall of the Roman empire. Your yesterday and ancient history have several things in common - it's all in the past, none of it can be changed, and you can learn much from it. But still, when tomorrow arrives, today will only be history.

* At worst, decide the ten years you feel have been "wasted" can be won back with a new lease on life. Decide you'll live to 99 instead of 89 and those ten years won't be missed. Simplistic? Silly? Yes, but it could happen. In other words, you're only 35 with probably a lot of years ahead of you. I personally know a man who changed careers at 50 and he's now 82 and works every single day because he loves what he does. He's been doing something completely different for the last 32 years - almost your entire time on Earth - and didn't begin until he was fifty years old. Think about that, sometimes perspective can help.

You're getting good advice and thoughts from the community here.

All the best to you and good luck!
posted by Gerard Sorme at 11:34 PM on June 29, 2013 [10 favorites]

Best answer: I wish I could give you a hug.

Speaking as a supervisor of many PhDs, please don't feel like a failure. I know it's easy to: even the most lucky and successful people I know who got a PhD felt like they had been through an emotional wringer by the whole process. A PhD is really fucking hard. And it's not even the actual research skills, the knowledge, the writing that makes it so difficult -- although that's no picnic -- it is that it is incredibly emotionally difficult. Most people enter a PhD confident in their intellectual skills, with their curiosity and smarts and drive having always been something that gives them great satisfaction... and that feeling slowly drifts away over the course of years as (often for the first time in their life) they are competing with people as smart or smarter than them, as they feel stupid increasingly often, as luck (in the form of successful or unsuccessful experiments, helpful or unhelpful advisors, topics that happen to turn into the big new thing or not, etc) plays an enormous role in their success, as they spend years and money and opportunity cost chasing the degree with uncertain at best payoff at the end of it.

That is not to say you're an idiot for having started a PhD; even with all of that, I think they are worthwhile, otherwise I wouldn't take PhD students. My point is, though, you should be nothing but proud that you have gotten as far as you have, especially while in an LDR (another thing that is really really hard). That you have managed both at the same time, while not in your home country, says really great things for your character and your resilience.

I repeat: don't be ashamed. Be proud. You've been carrying a really heavy load for years now and you are almost to the finish line. When you look back, don't feel bad that you're staggering -- anyone would be -- be proud that you are almost there, that you didn't quit, that you haven't dropped the load.

What should you do now? I know this is easier said than done, because those last months are the worst, but just buckle down and get the damn thing done. And as for quality, don't worry about sterling prose or "making a name for yourself" or anything. Get words on the page, and you'll be able to edit them up to passing level, and you'll be out of there. And you will be totally employable. If you don't want an academic career, the lack of publications -- particularly if you have some manuscripts -- shouldn't hurt you. All people in industry (in any scientific field) want to see is that you have a PhD, because it means you are not only smart, you have all of those character traits, like tenacity and independence, that I commend you above for. And you do. You do. Believe me.

As for feeling like yourself again? It comes back, I promise. I felt a lot like you when I finished my PhD, and now, five years later, it is a dim memory. You can do it. You can.
posted by forza at 3:41 AM on June 30, 2013 [12 favorites]

Oh, and seriously, don't worry about the weight right now if it is just stressing you out and making you feel worse. I survived the last few months of my PhD by eating chocolate pudding cups and ice cream. Those got me through it, and every extra pound was worth it in mental health. I lost the weight later.

(Conversely, if you find that exercise is making you feel better, by all means do it. I'm just saying, now is not the time to add another heavy weight and difficult goal to what you're already dealing with).
posted by forza at 3:45 AM on June 30, 2013

I assume you don't drink alcohol regularly. You sound well enough to benefit from talking therapy. This will help you to put the period of illness behind you and rebuild you. Good luck.
posted by BenPens at 4:29 AM on June 30, 2013

Please talk to your doctor. You do sound depressed, and I don't think it's a coincidence you're feeling this way so soon after quitting your meds. There are lots of medications you can take while trying to conceive and even through pregnancy. My husband was suicidal eight years ago and I would be terrified if he quit taking his medication and was feeling the way you are right now. Other people have good, tangible advice here for things you can do, but I truly feel that if you've been suicidal so recently, staying on meds is going to help you apply constructive advice and see your path a lot more clearly.
posted by something something at 5:52 AM on June 30, 2013 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: I just want to thank all of you for your advice, time, kindness. Honestly, I am really overwhelmed right now, I cried reading the responses and thinking complete strangers understood what I was going through and cared enough to write and help.

Maybe it is depression sneaking up again, I will see my counselor. I spoke with the doc before I stopped the antidepressants and we tapered down the dose. I seemed to be doing OK initially, but maybe its sneaking back again and I will see my doc.

I'm close to finishing and that alone will improve many of these problems immediately, so yes, I should just buckle down and get this over with before I worry about other things like the weight or TTC. Its sometimes difficult to see the forest in the trees. I really needed this perspective and your responses have helped me a lot.
posted by greta_01 at 6:34 AM on June 30, 2013 [3 favorites]

From what you say, it sounds like this has been going on for a few years, even when you were on medication before. So I will suggest something different to many of the people above. I feel like you need to establish your own worth, and connect to people more. (People want to know you and be with you!) Yes, do get some support from a professional who can offer good guidance, but you may not need any drugs.
posted by inkypinky at 6:43 AM on June 30, 2013 [1 favorite]

It really does sound like depression. If you consider suicide, please read Art Kleiner's article, How Not To Commit Suicide. Grad school will end, you'll have your Ph.D. It's a huge accomplishment - Yay, You! Depression can sap every bit of energy and joy out of life. If you go back on meds, work with your doctor to make sure they're the best fit for you. Depression is quite understandable - you're away from your husband, family, country, support system - and working hard.

How dreadful that your publications are languishing. Think about and make a list of the steps required for the prof to get them submitted. Talk to the prof. and ask him to do step 1. Go back in a week or so and ask about progress. Procrastinators can get stuck on tasks like, write a cover letter, print on letterhead, photocopy, get the right size envelope, find the correct address for submission, get the right postage, take to mailbox. So do as much of it as possible for him/her. Be totally friendly and understanding about the lack of progress, just stress that you need the publications to make progress in your career.

I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time. Please reach out for help - your university almost certainly has counseling services. Treat yourself a little better - take a few hours to go sit in the sun and read for pleasure, or go for a walk, whatever would be pleasant. You deserve a break. and a hug.
posted by theora55 at 10:26 AM on June 30, 2013 [1 favorite]