What should I do to protect my neck during this roommate situation?
June 25, 2013 8:52 PM Subscribe
I moved to a new city and I'm currently living by myself in a decent sized but single bedroom apartment. I recently met a friend who's looking for a place to stay with his girlfriend for one month so they can save a little money to get on their feet again.
Raising all sorts of red flags already? That's why I love you guys. Besides "Just say no", what can we both do to protect our interests?
I don't know this guy very well, I've only hung around with him enough to get an idea of his character. My instinct is that he's decent, but of course that's fallible. He's offering cash up front (roughly half my monthly rent) plus groceries to stay for one month. We're both not idiots, and realize that neither of us really KNOW the other person. We're comfortable enough to share an apartment for the month (to be honest, I could use the company and a little extra money too).
Q: Is there a simple but legally enforceable contract we can quickly sign up that will 1) prevent me from taking his money and then kicking him out for no reason, 2) help protect me if he decides to take some valuables one day and split, and 3) hold the terms of our agreement to what we verbally agreed to: mainly no inviting other people over and being respectful of the property in general?
I don't think any of these scenarios are likely or else I wouldn't be doing it in the first place, but I've been manipulated by people before and I'm not having any of it. What are our options, if any, besides blind trust?
I don't know this guy very well, I've only hung around with him enough to get an idea of his character. My instinct is that he's decent, but of course that's fallible. He's offering cash up front (roughly half my monthly rent) plus groceries to stay for one month. We're both not idiots, and realize that neither of us really KNOW the other person. We're comfortable enough to share an apartment for the month (to be honest, I could use the company and a little extra money too).
Q: Is there a simple but legally enforceable contract we can quickly sign up that will 1) prevent me from taking his money and then kicking him out for no reason, 2) help protect me if he decides to take some valuables one day and split, and 3) hold the terms of our agreement to what we verbally agreed to: mainly no inviting other people over and being respectful of the property in general?
I don't think any of these scenarios are likely or else I wouldn't be doing it in the first place, but I've been manipulated by people before and I'm not having any of it. What are our options, if any, besides blind trust?
I agree with the above. I also wonder if the legal enforceability of whatever you two come up with will depend on your lease. That is, if you don't have the legal right to sublet your apartment or add a roommate, then this new contract might be legally void.
posted by pompelmo at 9:05 PM on June 25, 2013
posted by pompelmo at 9:05 PM on June 25, 2013
Along with the legal issue of subletting etc, a contract between you and them is only good if you have the money and wherewithall to back up any action should the arrangement go sour. A contract will not stop the pair stealing from you, wrecking your things, staying over the time allowed, or getting you evicted. Say they steal from you and scram, leaving no forwarding address. How will you enforce the contract when you don't know where they are?
I can understand why you may want to help these folk, but only do it if you are willing to lose everything you have, including your apartment, not to mention your sense of good will and peace of mind.
posted by Kerasia at 9:07 PM on June 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I can understand why you may want to help these folk, but only do it if you are willing to lose everything you have, including your apartment, not to mention your sense of good will and peace of mind.
posted by Kerasia at 9:07 PM on June 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
No. Just don't.
posted by Unified Theory at 9:08 PM on June 25, 2013 [21 favorites]
posted by Unified Theory at 9:08 PM on June 25, 2013 [21 favorites]
Do you guys have mutual friends? Some in person character references would make a difference to me. But without, I'd say no.
posted by overhauser at 9:13 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by overhauser at 9:13 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't do it. This could go so wrong in so many ways.
Q: "What should I do to protect my neck during this roommate situation?"
A: Don't let it become a roommate situation.
Don't do it.
posted by 2oh1 at 9:17 PM on June 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Q: "What should I do to protect my neck during this roommate situation?"
A: Don't let it become a roommate situation.
Don't do it.
posted by 2oh1 at 9:17 PM on June 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'll just present (possibly) the worst-case scenario here: these two regularly prey on new-to-town people like you, and you'll end up with squatters you can't evict, massive theft of your stuff, or both.
The upside for you if all goes well? You get a little extra cash in return for having to share a one-bedroom home with two other people who are in a relationship. So really, no upside at all.
posted by davejay at 9:18 PM on June 25, 2013 [7 favorites]
The upside for you if all goes well? You get a little extra cash in return for having to share a one-bedroom home with two other people who are in a relationship. So really, no upside at all.
posted by davejay at 9:18 PM on June 25, 2013 [7 favorites]
If you don't need a roommate, just... say no.
I'm confused about why that isn't an option here. Are you in some way obligated to this guy? If some minor acquaintance called me up and invited himself and girlfriend to move into my apartment, I would be like, "Sorry, bro, this is definitely a one person apartment. But here are some Craigslist sublet ads that look like good deals!"
In general, too, no, once you invite someone to permanently live with you, that's basically it. There are sublease agreements and roommate agreements and the like, but unless you're very wealthy or the stakes are very high, it's unlikely that it will ever come to trying to make such agreements hold up in court.
If you do not trust someone to move out if you ask them to move out, you should absolutely under no circumstances invite them to move in. Period.
posted by Sara C. at 9:18 PM on June 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm confused about why that isn't an option here. Are you in some way obligated to this guy? If some minor acquaintance called me up and invited himself and girlfriend to move into my apartment, I would be like, "Sorry, bro, this is definitely a one person apartment. But here are some Craigslist sublet ads that look like good deals!"
In general, too, no, once you invite someone to permanently live with you, that's basically it. There are sublease agreements and roommate agreements and the like, but unless you're very wealthy or the stakes are very high, it's unlikely that it will ever come to trying to make such agreements hold up in court.
If you do not trust someone to move out if you ask them to move out, you should absolutely under no circumstances invite them to move in. Period.
posted by Sara C. at 9:18 PM on June 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Aside from the legal issues/odds of getting scammed, it's 3 (two being a couple, no less) people in a single bedroom apartment. How would that work and how comfortable would any of you be? The cramped living situation alone would be enough to make me say no.
posted by Jubey at 9:19 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Jubey at 9:19 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would do it. I think you could probably draft something that may protect each parties interests, but the real protection is in the "know your customer" rule. This is sitting down with this gentleman over coffee, looking each other in the eye and determining if you trust each other. The reward seems positive vis a vis the risk, but the only way to assess the true risk it to get more comfortable with him.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:28 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:28 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "I just reviewed my lease and I can't legally do this. Sorry."
They are going to squat and/or steal your stuff. This is abnormal, you are being conned again. Big Time.
Don't do it.
(There is no contract to keep them from claiming legal tenancy after they've been there a month. Meanwhile, you are financially responsible to the landlord. I'm SURE they know this.
Plus, it's a two against one dynamic. What the hell are you thinking??)
posted by jbenben at 9:46 PM on June 25, 2013 [18 favorites]
They are going to squat and/or steal your stuff. This is abnormal, you are being conned again. Big Time.
Don't do it.
(There is no contract to keep them from claiming legal tenancy after they've been there a month. Meanwhile, you are financially responsible to the landlord. I'm SURE they know this.
Plus, it's a two against one dynamic. What the hell are you thinking??)
posted by jbenben at 9:46 PM on June 25, 2013 [18 favorites]
cash up front (roughly half my monthly rent) plus groceries to stay for one month
That sounds like a fair chunk of change for someone "trying to get back on their feet". Are both of them working full-time/multiple jobs? Have you independently verified that? It would be tight to share your space - even more so if they are always around. What about their belongings? How is the bedbug situation in your city - I wouldn't share if there was the risk a critter would hop a ride in unwittingly.
I echo other people's concerns about your liability as landlord, however, other people use airbnb for short term rentals successfully so I wonder if they have contracts you can use?
posted by saucysault at 9:49 PM on June 25, 2013
That sounds like a fair chunk of change for someone "trying to get back on their feet". Are both of them working full-time/multiple jobs? Have you independently verified that? It would be tight to share your space - even more so if they are always around. What about their belongings? How is the bedbug situation in your city - I wouldn't share if there was the risk a critter would hop a ride in unwittingly.
I echo other people's concerns about your liability as landlord, however, other people use airbnb for short term rentals successfully so I wonder if they have contracts you can use?
posted by saucysault at 9:49 PM on June 25, 2013
If there are going to be three people jammed into a one bedroom, they should be paying 2/3 of the rent, not 1/2.
I've had people I don't know at all crash on my couch for a month, but only in situations where they were family of good friends. One month of close quarters isn't the worst, but if they aren't close to you or someone you care about I'm not sure why they would be asking you. I can't imagine that I'd ask an almost stranger to let me and my gf move in, wouldn't it make more sense for them to find one couch each at two of their friend's or families places? What exactly does "getting back on their feet" entail, and what has caused that to happen? And, most importantly, can their story be verified?
posted by Dynex at 9:52 PM on June 25, 2013
I've had people I don't know at all crash on my couch for a month, but only in situations where they were family of good friends. One month of close quarters isn't the worst, but if they aren't close to you or someone you care about I'm not sure why they would be asking you. I can't imagine that I'd ask an almost stranger to let me and my gf move in, wouldn't it make more sense for them to find one couch each at two of their friend's or families places? What exactly does "getting back on their feet" entail, and what has caused that to happen? And, most importantly, can their story be verified?
posted by Dynex at 9:52 PM on June 25, 2013
Sadly, even the most enforceable contract needs to be enforced by legal process if one party chooses not to honor it in good faith and the legal system for doing that is slow and cumbersome at best.
Contracts are great for defining the rights of people who will deal fairly with each other. If you envision having to rely on a contract to enforce your rights you are generally, on a personal level, better off avoiding the relationship.
posted by uncaken at 9:59 PM on June 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Contracts are great for defining the rights of people who will deal fairly with each other. If you envision having to rely on a contract to enforce your rights you are generally, on a personal level, better off avoiding the relationship.
posted by uncaken at 9:59 PM on June 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Unless someone else very convincing chimes in, you guys talked me out of it. I'm currently in Wisconsin, if it matters.
I'm well aware about all the things that can go wrong, I'm just ignorant of renting legal agreements. I've heard/read about people finding apartments with strangers on craigslist without things going horribly south, so I just thought that maybe there was a legal contract he would sign saying "I pay so and so such an amount. In return I gain limited residence for 30 days only. I am legally responsible for any valuables in the apartment reported stolen".
But I forgot about the one month rule most states have. I guess such a contract is pure fantasy. Besides, like someone said, nothing is stopping him from letting a buddy into the place to take my shit and then claiming robbery".
I have a large bedroom to myself, and they would sleep in my decent sized living room. I wouldn't mind the close quarters for only a month, and I'm not worried about the two against one thing.
Their story is that he lost his job and she has a regular but close to minimum wage job. They don't live close to any family and they've been living in cheap motels for the past couple months but that eats up all the money they have.
I'm a sucker for helping people out and trying to give them second chances, so I've gotten burned before by soulless people who thrive off of draining my faith in humanity. We both recently got screwed over by the same person and the arrangement was catalyzed by that (we both help each other recover: I get money and food to help pay my rent, they get a cheap and nice place to stay while he looks for another job and better apartment). The enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc.
But I'm all alone here too. I already had a lot of money stolen by someone recently and if I lose everything I've worked so hard for then I'm done. So it hurts but I guess I'll say no...maybe "I talked to my landlord and she threatened to evict me if I get even a temporary roommate. I'm really sorry, I tried,".
posted by WhitenoisE at 10:07 PM on June 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm well aware about all the things that can go wrong, I'm just ignorant of renting legal agreements. I've heard/read about people finding apartments with strangers on craigslist without things going horribly south, so I just thought that maybe there was a legal contract he would sign saying "I pay so and so such an amount. In return I gain limited residence for 30 days only. I am legally responsible for any valuables in the apartment reported stolen".
But I forgot about the one month rule most states have. I guess such a contract is pure fantasy. Besides, like someone said, nothing is stopping him from letting a buddy into the place to take my shit and then claiming robbery".
I have a large bedroom to myself, and they would sleep in my decent sized living room. I wouldn't mind the close quarters for only a month, and I'm not worried about the two against one thing.
Their story is that he lost his job and she has a regular but close to minimum wage job. They don't live close to any family and they've been living in cheap motels for the past couple months but that eats up all the money they have.
I'm a sucker for helping people out and trying to give them second chances, so I've gotten burned before by soulless people who thrive off of draining my faith in humanity. We both recently got screwed over by the same person and the arrangement was catalyzed by that (we both help each other recover: I get money and food to help pay my rent, they get a cheap and nice place to stay while he looks for another job and better apartment). The enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc.
But I'm all alone here too. I already had a lot of money stolen by someone recently and if I lose everything I've worked so hard for then I'm done. So it hurts but I guess I'll say no...maybe "I talked to my landlord and she threatened to evict me if I get even a temporary roommate. I'm really sorry, I tried,".
posted by WhitenoisE at 10:07 PM on June 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
assuming they have the best intentions, i think it would be irresistible for them to pressure you hard with something like
"we were totally going to have enough to get our own place, but then [random expense] came up and now we don't have enough. one more month, please? we'll have it by then. you can't kick us out for this one minor thing. come on man, it'll only be one more month. would you force your friends to live on the street? not cool man, not cool."
again, even if they have the best of intentions, it's very likely that something like that will come up, more so given that they're people who have gotten into a situation like this. i don't want to drag on poor people, but they shouldn't go to you for something like this. this is the thing families are for, and if they have a shitty family, there are government programs.
i hate coming off as too conservative, but, what i've said above is good advice, with the appropriate qualifiers.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:12 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
"we were totally going to have enough to get our own place, but then [random expense] came up and now we don't have enough. one more month, please? we'll have it by then. you can't kick us out for this one minor thing. come on man, it'll only be one more month. would you force your friends to live on the street? not cool man, not cool."
again, even if they have the best of intentions, it's very likely that something like that will come up, more so given that they're people who have gotten into a situation like this. i don't want to drag on poor people, but they shouldn't go to you for something like this. this is the thing families are for, and if they have a shitty family, there are government programs.
i hate coming off as too conservative, but, what i've said above is good advice, with the appropriate qualifiers.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:12 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
"I'm sorry, it's just not possible".
You don't need to lie, or explain. If they don't accept that as an answer, then they are not your friends.
posted by empath at 10:26 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
You don't need to lie, or explain. If they don't accept that as an answer, then they are not your friends.
posted by empath at 10:26 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've done this kind of thing for good friends who I already knew and trusted quite a few times, and it's almost always worked out well (the bad endings were only mutual grouchiness we eventually got over--nothing really bad). I, too, feel terrible saying no to people I could feasibly help out without inconveniencing myself that much, but if you don't have several mutual friends in common who can vouch for them, I wouldn't do it. (I'd also be curious to know whether they've stayed with people who are already part of their social circle. Where's their social safety net of friends & family who you turn to first when you fall on hard times? Have they used up that good will? Or do they not have friends who'll let them stay, which in and of itself is a major red flag.) Ultimately, do what feels best for you. Generosity is important when you have resources someone else doesn't, but you have to feel confident in being able to stand up for yourself about personal space (for example), or leaving at the end of the month even if they have nowhere else to go, etc.
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:33 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:33 PM on June 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've heard/read about people finding apartments with strangers on craigslist without things going horribly south, so I just thought that maybe there was a legal contract he would sign saying "I pay so and so such an amount. In return I gain limited residence for 30 days only. I am legally responsible for any valuables in the apartment reported stolen".
Yes, but on Craigs, the idea is that everyone is clear that the person posting the ad is actually looking for a roommate, and the person answering the ad is presumed to be answering in good faith.
Also, having been through the Craigslist roommate song and dance, a big part of the decision to move in together is based on meeting the person and whether they seem trustworthy. I would absolutely not hesitate to say no to anyone I met on Craigslist if I felt the tiniest inkling that the arrangement wasn't on the up and up.
In your situation, one thing really sticks out to me as being inherently not trustworthy: It's a one bedroom apartment. You're not otherwise looking for a roommate. So, what's in it for you?
I'll also say that I've signed a sublease agreement before, in good faith. I didn't do so under the assumption that I'd be held to it in a court of law. My decision to sign was an act of showing my new roommate that I agreed with her conditions. I abided by those conditions during the whole time I lived there. If I hadn't, I'm not sure there's much she could have done without spending a LOT of money to take me to court. And half the stuff on there was about quiet hours and not smoking in my room, anyway, which is stuff you can't really sue for.
(BTW anyone who'd preemptively take responsibility for the potential future theft of any item from the apartment is a fool.)
posted by Sara C. at 10:39 PM on June 25, 2013
Yes, but on Craigs, the idea is that everyone is clear that the person posting the ad is actually looking for a roommate, and the person answering the ad is presumed to be answering in good faith.
Also, having been through the Craigslist roommate song and dance, a big part of the decision to move in together is based on meeting the person and whether they seem trustworthy. I would absolutely not hesitate to say no to anyone I met on Craigslist if I felt the tiniest inkling that the arrangement wasn't on the up and up.
In your situation, one thing really sticks out to me as being inherently not trustworthy: It's a one bedroom apartment. You're not otherwise looking for a roommate. So, what's in it for you?
I'll also say that I've signed a sublease agreement before, in good faith. I didn't do so under the assumption that I'd be held to it in a court of law. My decision to sign was an act of showing my new roommate that I agreed with her conditions. I abided by those conditions during the whole time I lived there. If I hadn't, I'm not sure there's much she could have done without spending a LOT of money to take me to court. And half the stuff on there was about quiet hours and not smoking in my room, anyway, which is stuff you can't really sue for.
(BTW anyone who'd preemptively take responsibility for the potential future theft of any item from the apartment is a fool.)
posted by Sara C. at 10:39 PM on June 25, 2013
They don't live close to any family
...or friends, from the sounds of it. Quite a red flag.
posted by kmennie at 1:28 AM on June 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
...or friends, from the sounds of it. Quite a red flag.
posted by kmennie at 1:28 AM on June 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
Another vote here for Don't Do it.
You've just recently met him, and you don't really know him --- it MIGHT be different if you'd known him for a long time (i.e. years), but even in that case: three people in a one-bedroom apartment is kinda crowded, and you'd probably end up limited to just your bedroom because the living room would be *their* personal space.
Theft of your property, damage to your property or to the apartment (which YOU, the leaseholder, would be responsible for), difficulties getting them back OUT of your place, difficulties getting them to pay anything, risk of personal injury, risk of getting evicted *yourself* because your landlord gets ticked off by what they'd see as subleasing..... there are way too many ways letting two virtual strangers move in to your place can go wrong. A short-term contract like you mention is basically unenforceable, and you'd have very little legal recourse if they refuse to leave. The 'responsible for missing property' clause is *totally* useless: it's not only unenforceable, but it won't help you recover either property or repayment from two broke & homeless people, who would be either hard to find and/or totally unable to pay.
I understand the urge to help people, but the thing you need to remember here is the airline oxygen-mask rule: always put your own oxygen mask on first --- you can't help anyone else if you too have passed out. In this case, it means you need to protect yourself, your home and your financial security BEFORE you try to help someone else.
posted by easily confused at 3:04 AM on June 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
You've just recently met him, and you don't really know him --- it MIGHT be different if you'd known him for a long time (i.e. years), but even in that case: three people in a one-bedroom apartment is kinda crowded, and you'd probably end up limited to just your bedroom because the living room would be *their* personal space.
Theft of your property, damage to your property or to the apartment (which YOU, the leaseholder, would be responsible for), difficulties getting them back OUT of your place, difficulties getting them to pay anything, risk of personal injury, risk of getting evicted *yourself* because your landlord gets ticked off by what they'd see as subleasing..... there are way too many ways letting two virtual strangers move in to your place can go wrong. A short-term contract like you mention is basically unenforceable, and you'd have very little legal recourse if they refuse to leave. The 'responsible for missing property' clause is *totally* useless: it's not only unenforceable, but it won't help you recover either property or repayment from two broke & homeless people, who would be either hard to find and/or totally unable to pay.
I understand the urge to help people, but the thing you need to remember here is the airline oxygen-mask rule: always put your own oxygen mask on first --- you can't help anyone else if you too have passed out. In this case, it means you need to protect yourself, your home and your financial security BEFORE you try to help someone else.
posted by easily confused at 3:04 AM on June 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nope, just let them know that it won't be possible. I'd go with the "I reviewed my lease and..."
Once you get people into a place, you might end up having to evict them out of it.
I too am a trusting soul and I get vibes from people. I did this with a tradesman, I paid $7,000 for a sewer line. Turns out he wasn't licensed, he didn't pull permits and the thing failed after 5 years. I just paid another $4,000 to have it done correctly.
Clearly, my 'vibes' can't be trusted, so I need to rely on research, multiple bids and recommendations from people I trust.
Resign yourself to the fact that you are shit at judging character. You can't trust your judgement in this instance.
Just say no.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:25 AM on June 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Once you get people into a place, you might end up having to evict them out of it.
I too am a trusting soul and I get vibes from people. I did this with a tradesman, I paid $7,000 for a sewer line. Turns out he wasn't licensed, he didn't pull permits and the thing failed after 5 years. I just paid another $4,000 to have it done correctly.
Clearly, my 'vibes' can't be trusted, so I need to rely on research, multiple bids and recommendations from people I trust.
Resign yourself to the fact that you are shit at judging character. You can't trust your judgement in this instance.
Just say no.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:25 AM on June 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
You just met these people.
You don't know who they hang with, you don't know where they live, you don't even describe shared common interests.
posted by oceanjesse at 7:27 AM on June 26, 2013
You don't know who they hang with, you don't know where they live, you don't even describe shared common interests.
posted by oceanjesse at 7:27 AM on June 26, 2013
Hi, I've done this. Multiple times.
I've done it for close friends, and people I didn't know that we'll but were vetted by friends/seemed cool.
It was fucking dumb every time, I'm never doing it again.
With one exception, they never stole my shit or did anything super horrible(and the guy who stole my stuff only took socks and underwear... Ugh) but here's some examples of what happened.
* I let them do this, and they were great. great. We found a new larger place where we could be roommates with a couple other people... And they walked on the lease a couple months in because they had found a cooler place with a close friend.
* they bullshit excused it as mentioned above "c'mon, would you kick a friend out on to the street?" And stayed for MONTHS. When I finally dropped the hammer and tried to get actual money out of them they paid 2 months of rent and bailed. I later found out everything they said was complete fabrication and they had a brother in town who had a large place they could have stayed at. They just didnt want to be forced to deal with their "bullshit" of actually being forced to not play videogames and drink all day and actually hold a job for more than 2 weeks at a time.(how do these types of people ALWAYS get new jobs? Wtf)
* The guy who stole my socks and shit. He constantly invited his weird friends over and acted like it was entirely his house. Sometimes it was funny as hell because he'd just be crazy on drugs, but it also sucked. We actually shut off the power entirely to end one of his "parties" once.
I could probably think of more. I've done this 5+ times. There are sooo many failure modes.
Not to mention the couple voting thing, and the fact that they should be paying 2/3 of the rent. Absolutely assume that they're lying about a bunch of shit. Yea sure, maybe they just need to save for first/last/deposit but they probably wouldn't qualify for their own place and most roommate situations want or require credit checks now, bla bla bla.
Also I wouldn't totally buy that you're their only option. Probably just the one with the least strings attached. Especially if they've been in town for a while. Aformentioned sock stealer guy has only been in my city since like 07, and he somehow manages to basically only couch surf or rent rooms for a couple months at a time perpetually.
Really though, I just can't properly explain how bad of an idea this is. It's like bad^bad. And I'd bet you were only even considering it because they're great at guilt tripping you.
What'll happen after the first month when they're entrenched and ready to really guilt trip? They'll either do that, or the teeth will come out and they'll pull the old "you CAN'T kick me out :)"
posted by emptythought at 8:23 AM on June 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
I've done it for close friends, and people I didn't know that we'll but were vetted by friends/seemed cool.
It was fucking dumb every time, I'm never doing it again.
With one exception, they never stole my shit or did anything super horrible(and the guy who stole my stuff only took socks and underwear... Ugh) but here's some examples of what happened.
* I let them do this, and they were great. great. We found a new larger place where we could be roommates with a couple other people... And they walked on the lease a couple months in because they had found a cooler place with a close friend.
* they bullshit excused it as mentioned above "c'mon, would you kick a friend out on to the street?" And stayed for MONTHS. When I finally dropped the hammer and tried to get actual money out of them they paid 2 months of rent and bailed. I later found out everything they said was complete fabrication and they had a brother in town who had a large place they could have stayed at. They just didnt want to be forced to deal with their "bullshit" of actually being forced to not play videogames and drink all day and actually hold a job for more than 2 weeks at a time.(how do these types of people ALWAYS get new jobs? Wtf)
* The guy who stole my socks and shit. He constantly invited his weird friends over and acted like it was entirely his house. Sometimes it was funny as hell because he'd just be crazy on drugs, but it also sucked. We actually shut off the power entirely to end one of his "parties" once.
I could probably think of more. I've done this 5+ times. There are sooo many failure modes.
Not to mention the couple voting thing, and the fact that they should be paying 2/3 of the rent. Absolutely assume that they're lying about a bunch of shit. Yea sure, maybe they just need to save for first/last/deposit but they probably wouldn't qualify for their own place and most roommate situations want or require credit checks now, bla bla bla.
Also I wouldn't totally buy that you're their only option. Probably just the one with the least strings attached. Especially if they've been in town for a while. Aformentioned sock stealer guy has only been in my city since like 07, and he somehow manages to basically only couch surf or rent rooms for a couple months at a time perpetually.
Really though, I just can't properly explain how bad of an idea this is. It's like bad^bad. And I'd bet you were only even considering it because they're great at guilt tripping you.
What'll happen after the first month when they're entrenched and ready to really guilt trip? They'll either do that, or the teeth will come out and they'll pull the old "you CAN'T kick me out :)"
posted by emptythought at 8:23 AM on June 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
I don't know this guy very well
End of story. Don't do this, it's nuts to even consider it.
posted by spaltavian at 8:50 AM on June 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
End of story. Don't do this, it's nuts to even consider it.
posted by spaltavian at 8:50 AM on June 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I once did something like that - offered an acquaintance my spare room for a couple of days, it stretched out to a couple of weeks and then he brought his girlfriend too. Was very uncomfortable and they weren't even crooks. Don't underestimate the sheer power of the couple dynamic outbalancing you, even though it's your place.
posted by zadcat at 9:27 AM on June 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by zadcat at 9:27 AM on June 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm very familiar with the feeling that I need a really good reason for saying no; that my default should be "do nice things for people who ask." But that's really not a virtue if I do it at the expense of my own well-being. When I'm considering doing someone a favor, it helps if I ask myself, "Why the hell would I do that?" Often, I have good reasons for helping out. But in this case, I don't see that you have any compelling reason to let this couple stay in your place. I know they'd pay half your rent for one month, but you can afford to live there without that contribution.
There are plenty of reasons, besides the squatting angle, that inviting them in is bad idea. They have very little money. You don't know them well enough to understand what kind of roommates they'll be. It's a one-bedroom unit, and you'll give up a lot of privacy and convenience. If they don't have money for their own place now, it's unlikely they'll have it in a month. They'll have keys to your place, and access to your car keys and everything else you have. In my opinion, the squatting thing is the least of your worries.
To answer your actual question: in San Francisco where I live, it's legal to kick out a tenant who has been in residence less than four weeks. Check tenant law in your city/county/state to see what kind of rights your roommates would have if you decided to share your home.
posted by wryly at 9:58 AM on June 26, 2013
There are plenty of reasons, besides the squatting angle, that inviting them in is bad idea. They have very little money. You don't know them well enough to understand what kind of roommates they'll be. It's a one-bedroom unit, and you'll give up a lot of privacy and convenience. If they don't have money for their own place now, it's unlikely they'll have it in a month. They'll have keys to your place, and access to your car keys and everything else you have. In my opinion, the squatting thing is the least of your worries.
To answer your actual question: in San Francisco where I live, it's legal to kick out a tenant who has been in residence less than four weeks. Check tenant law in your city/county/state to see what kind of rights your roommates would have if you decided to share your home.
posted by wryly at 9:58 AM on June 26, 2013
Three times. Three times I did this - I'm a very slow learner.
But I have learned well and I'll never ever consider such an arrangement again.
Two of the three times disrupted my life so completely that it took nearly a year to recuperate. And two of the three times it involved very good friends who just needed a place to stay for a month until .... they had enough saved for a deposit; .... his ankle healed and he could get back on his construction job; .... her brother got into town to pick her up and take her back to Iowa.
Months later, and so many harsh words, friendships lost, nearly evicted from apartments twice, I finally got them out. Then turned around and did the same stupid thing again a few years later with different people.
Don't. Just don't go there.
posted by aryma at 10:48 PM on June 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
But I have learned well and I'll never ever consider such an arrangement again.
Two of the three times disrupted my life so completely that it took nearly a year to recuperate. And two of the three times it involved very good friends who just needed a place to stay for a month until .... they had enough saved for a deposit; .... his ankle healed and he could get back on his construction job; .... her brother got into town to pick her up and take her back to Iowa.
Months later, and so many harsh words, friendships lost, nearly evicted from apartments twice, I finally got them out. Then turned around and did the same stupid thing again a few years later with different people.
Don't. Just don't go there.
posted by aryma at 10:48 PM on June 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:01 PM on June 25, 2013