Restoring double hung windows
June 22, 2013 9:56 PM Subscribe
I'm fixing up some double-hung windows in my turn of the century house, and am weighing (ha!) my options with regard to sash weights vs. spring balances.
The windows are currently set up with sash weights and pulleys that are in pretty bad disrepair; the pulleys seem to be functional once I scrape away the decades of paint, but the old cotton cords all need replacing and the weights no longer seem to match the sashes (they're pitted and seem to have probably lost weight to rust and the sash framing has accumulated layers of paint that make them heavier.) The one sash I've experimentally rehung tends to drop in the frame when I let it go, and puts a few pounds of downward pressure on the kitchen scale I placed underneath to check.
I know I could add lead or other weights to the tops of the existing sash weights or just replace them completely, but this seems fiddly, expensive and time-consuming. I've become aware of the existence of retrofit spring balances like these, and they seem like a much simpler installation. I'm concerned, however, that they might not turn out as nice as the original weight and pulley system.
Have you had experience with retrofit spring balances on double hung windows? My concern is that the action of the spring-loaded tape won't be as smooth as that of a weight on a pulley, and that they might make unpleasant noises or bind slightly when the sash moves. I'm also unclear on the weight ratings of the spring balances; do I have to find one that exactly matches the weight of my sash, or can I find one that's close and adjust it somehow?
In short: Should I go for the spring balances for easier installation, or will the resulting action be inferior enough that I'll regret it?
The windows are currently set up with sash weights and pulleys that are in pretty bad disrepair; the pulleys seem to be functional once I scrape away the decades of paint, but the old cotton cords all need replacing and the weights no longer seem to match the sashes (they're pitted and seem to have probably lost weight to rust and the sash framing has accumulated layers of paint that make them heavier.) The one sash I've experimentally rehung tends to drop in the frame when I let it go, and puts a few pounds of downward pressure on the kitchen scale I placed underneath to check.
I know I could add lead or other weights to the tops of the existing sash weights or just replace them completely, but this seems fiddly, expensive and time-consuming. I've become aware of the existence of retrofit spring balances like these, and they seem like a much simpler installation. I'm concerned, however, that they might not turn out as nice as the original weight and pulley system.
Have you had experience with retrofit spring balances on double hung windows? My concern is that the action of the spring-loaded tape won't be as smooth as that of a weight on a pulley, and that they might make unpleasant noises or bind slightly when the sash moves. I'm also unclear on the weight ratings of the spring balances; do I have to find one that exactly matches the weight of my sash, or can I find one that's close and adjust it somehow?
In short: Should I go for the spring balances for easier installation, or will the resulting action be inferior enough that I'll regret it?
I am no expert. I have not seen sash weights in years! In my parents' house, a rope broke and had to be replaced. Thus I got my first sight into 'How Things Work'. You already know the deal with sash weights. Why not install the spring thingies on ONE window and see if it is satisfactory? I know the delay while you assess the springs will bother your schedule, but OTOH, you probably don't want a houseful of windows you regret.
posted by Cranberry at 12:53 AM on June 23, 2013
posted by Cranberry at 12:53 AM on June 23, 2013
I doubt that either rust or paint can account for such a large imbalance between the sashes and counterweights. The glass, on the other hand, may have been replaced at some point with double-strength glass, which is substantially heavier. If that's what happened, it may be just the one window that needs adjusting. I wouldn't make a decision based on a sample size of one. My inclination would be to free up at least one or two more sashes and see how they balance out.
The spring balances look pretty expensive to me, and I don't see how they'd save you significant time or hassle. I'd stick with the weights if I could.
posted by jon1270 at 3:37 AM on June 23, 2013
The spring balances look pretty expensive to me, and I don't see how they'd save you significant time or hassle. I'd stick with the weights if I could.
posted by jon1270 at 3:37 AM on June 23, 2013
Best answer: First off, good on you for wanting to rapair, rather than replace, your old windows.
Avoid the spring balances. They're expensive ($80/window) and may not be the right size to replace your pulleys. Also, if you open and close your windows much, they will fail long before restored weights and pulleys.
It's odd that your trial window is a few pounds heavier than its weights. The weight loss from any rusting and gain from extra paint are fairly negligible. It could be by design so that with a little friction from the stops and some weather stripping everything balances. More likely, somebody made some repairs and mixed up weights from other windows or lost some additional weights like these. They thread onto the sash cord right above the knot at the sash weights. If you have an architectural salvage/junk store nearby, you should be able to buy them for cheap.
Beware lead paint.
You might want to check out a Fine Homebuilding article, "New Life for Old Double-Hung Windows." It's behind a paywall, but they do a free trial, and you can download the pdf.
[I am a remodeling contractor specializing in Craftsman and Victorian restorations, but I am not your contractor, and I am not licensed in your state.]
posted by lost_cause at 7:25 AM on June 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Avoid the spring balances. They're expensive ($80/window) and may not be the right size to replace your pulleys. Also, if you open and close your windows much, they will fail long before restored weights and pulleys.
It's odd that your trial window is a few pounds heavier than its weights. The weight loss from any rusting and gain from extra paint are fairly negligible. It could be by design so that with a little friction from the stops and some weather stripping everything balances. More likely, somebody made some repairs and mixed up weights from other windows or lost some additional weights like these. They thread onto the sash cord right above the knot at the sash weights. If you have an architectural salvage/junk store nearby, you should be able to buy them for cheap.
Beware lead paint.
You might want to check out a Fine Homebuilding article, "New Life for Old Double-Hung Windows." It's behind a paywall, but they do a free trial, and you can download the pdf.
[I am a remodeling contractor specializing in Craftsman and Victorian restorations, but I am not your contractor, and I am not licensed in your state.]
posted by lost_cause at 7:25 AM on June 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: You guys are quite right about the weight imbalance; the lower sashes have clearly been reglazed at some point (their glass is straight while the upper sashes still have the old wavy glass) so the new glass is probably heavier than the old, and the previous renovator just didn't bother adjusting the weights. I don't know why I didn't think of that possibility.
I couldn't stop myself from continuing to putter around with it last night, and eventually found myself out on the back patio wearing leather gloves and melting down lead fishing weights in an old can on my camp stove, then pouring the molten lead into a short piece of thin-walled steel pipe I'd salvaged from a crappy closet rod we tore out of the upstairs. I made a little jig with a drill and hole saw to hold the pipe upright, with a bolt that had a nice long unthreaded shaft section going up the middle. Once the lead cooled I would remove the bolt and set it up again with a new piece of pipe. I used this method to create some big lead beads which I threaded onto the sash cords, and in this way I was able to get my first window raising and lowering smoothly though it took 3 pounds of lead on top of the original combined 15 pounds of iron weights.
The spring balance I linked is just a representative sample, I haven't really shopped them and don't know what less expensive options might be available. I'm still interested in hearing about people's experiences with them, but I do now feel like the weights and pulleys are a workable option. It's more work to have to cut access panels in the casings, figure out how much weight to add, and fabricate the new weights, and if spring balances work as well I'd be open to paying a bit more to save some labor.
posted by contraption at 11:06 AM on June 23, 2013
I couldn't stop myself from continuing to putter around with it last night, and eventually found myself out on the back patio wearing leather gloves and melting down lead fishing weights in an old can on my camp stove, then pouring the molten lead into a short piece of thin-walled steel pipe I'd salvaged from a crappy closet rod we tore out of the upstairs. I made a little jig with a drill and hole saw to hold the pipe upright, with a bolt that had a nice long unthreaded shaft section going up the middle. Once the lead cooled I would remove the bolt and set it up again with a new piece of pipe. I used this method to create some big lead beads which I threaded onto the sash cords, and in this way I was able to get my first window raising and lowering smoothly though it took 3 pounds of lead on top of the original combined 15 pounds of iron weights.
The spring balance I linked is just a representative sample, I haven't really shopped them and don't know what less expensive options might be available. I'm still interested in hearing about people's experiences with them, but I do now feel like the weights and pulleys are a workable option. It's more work to have to cut access panels in the casings, figure out how much weight to add, and fabricate the new weights, and if spring balances work as well I'd be open to paying a bit more to save some labor.
posted by contraption at 11:06 AM on June 23, 2013
A lot of window manufacturers make a spring balance/vinyl jamb liner kit. Instead of having to mortise in just the balances, you just slap in the replacement jamb liners and reinsert the sashes. Certainly not as attractive as old original double-hungs, but very effective. They have the added benefit of sealing the opening better, too.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:00 PM on June 23, 2013
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:00 PM on June 23, 2013
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posted by contraption at 10:07 PM on June 22, 2013