What should I tell the customs agent about the $$ value of my car?
June 19, 2013 10:18 AM Subscribe
We will be importing a 2004 Honda Accord into Canada this weekend, I hope. We must pay taxes (16% of value of the car!) when we bring it in. It is up to us to put a value on the the car and hope the customs agent accepts our assessment. If they don't accept it, they will put their own value on the car and we must accept that and pay taxes accordingly. Two questions: how would you assess the value? And how would you try to pay the least amount possible?
Car in question is a 2004 Honda Accord EX manual drive with approximately 70,000 miles on it. Usually, the border agents assess the value of a car based on the "Canadian Red Book" but this car is too old for that. The car has a few dings and scratches and most importantly was in a head-on collision in 2009. We think that this decreases its value considerably from what's for sale online. How would you estimate the value? What documentation would you have on hand to prove it? We don't want to take the time or money to have it officially appraised.
At the border, the agent will look at our declaration form and either accept our assessment or can use his/her "own discretion" to propose another value. I am not sure if there's negotiation at this point, or if we have to accept the new appraisal. The amounts listed online vary by many thousands of dollars and, of course, we want to minimize the taxes we pay on a pretty beat-up old car that runs well but that we will drive into the ground for the next few years.
What would you do?
Car in question is a 2004 Honda Accord EX manual drive with approximately 70,000 miles on it. Usually, the border agents assess the value of a car based on the "Canadian Red Book" but this car is too old for that. The car has a few dings and scratches and most importantly was in a head-on collision in 2009. We think that this decreases its value considerably from what's for sale online. How would you estimate the value? What documentation would you have on hand to prove it? We don't want to take the time or money to have it officially appraised.
At the border, the agent will look at our declaration form and either accept our assessment or can use his/her "own discretion" to propose another value. I am not sure if there's negotiation at this point, or if we have to accept the new appraisal. The amounts listed online vary by many thousands of dollars and, of course, we want to minimize the taxes we pay on a pretty beat-up old car that runs well but that we will drive into the ground for the next few years.
What would you do?
You could use Kelly's Blue Book for the American value, then translate it to CA dollars? I went through it guessing your options, and it gave me around ~9,500 USD.
posted by General Malaise at 10:26 AM on June 19, 2013
posted by General Malaise at 10:26 AM on June 19, 2013
Definitely remember to reduce for the head-on collision though - that absolutely lowers the value and resale value of the car.
posted by corb at 10:26 AM on June 19, 2013
posted by corb at 10:26 AM on June 19, 2013
By the way, does that mean you have a salvaged title? That makes a big huge difference, probably.
posted by oceanjesse at 10:27 AM on June 19, 2013
posted by oceanjesse at 10:27 AM on June 19, 2013
Try to find sales listings that match the actual condition of your car. If you were in a head-on, you can probably claim some frame damage. Bring printouts of for sale notices of similar cars as evidence of the valuation. You can also go to a CarMax and ask them what your current trade-in value is.
posted by quince at 10:27 AM on June 19, 2013
posted by quince at 10:27 AM on June 19, 2013
Response by poster: Not a salvaged title. We bought the car new.
posted by picklebird at 10:28 AM on June 19, 2013
posted by picklebird at 10:28 AM on June 19, 2013
1: go to Carmax and see what they would give you for it.
2: go to KBB, Edmunds, etc. and see what they say it is worth.
3: look at local classified ads to see what similar cars are selling for.
4: pick the lowest value you've gleaned from your four sources, and bring that paperwork with you to justify your assessment.
posted by davejay at 10:49 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
2: go to KBB, Edmunds, etc. and see what they say it is worth.
3: look at local classified ads to see what similar cars are selling for.
4: pick the lowest value you've gleaned from your four sources, and bring that paperwork with you to justify your assessment.
posted by davejay at 10:49 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Try running the car through KBB and Edmund's and print out the estimate that favors you. For my guesses about your particular situation, I get $6900 from KBB and $4500 from Edmund's. Obviously estimates can vary quite a bit, and they further depend on things you can specifically tweak, such as private party sale vs. trade-in value, and the approximate "condition" of the car from Excellent to Poor. Then run the VIN through Carfax and print out that report, which should disclose the accident. That will help explain a further reduction in value if you feel it appropriate under the circumstances.
I don't know from Canadian customs, but the point is to walk in with documentary support of your estimate so that you can explain your process to the agent if he is skeptical. It's not a guarantee, but these steps are free (or nearly so in the case of Carfax) and can't hurt.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:50 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't know from Canadian customs, but the point is to walk in with documentary support of your estimate so that you can explain your process to the agent if he is skeptical. It's not a guarantee, but these steps are free (or nearly so in the case of Carfax) and can't hurt.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:50 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I imported a car into Canada from the US in 2006. It was a six year old VW GTI. I arrived at the border crossing with a print out of the Kelly Blue Book value ($7k or so) if I recall. The agent looked it up in their own book (not sure what it was) and said they were sorry to inform me it was only worth $4k. So that was a happy surprise.
I assume you have already checked the Registrar of Imported Vehicles website. According to their Importer Checklist, you should only have to pay the RIV fee of about $200.
posted by fundip at 10:51 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I assume you have already checked the Registrar of Imported Vehicles website. According to their Importer Checklist, you should only have to pay the RIV fee of about $200.
posted by fundip at 10:51 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If it helps, I had the same car (with a V6, 92K miles) last week until I traded it in. I got $5,500 for it. I had a rear-end accident and a tree fell on the front of my car so it showed 2 accidents on the Carfax. Also, you may want to get a Carfax for your car, to show the accident.
Auto-Trader in Canada will do a value for you. You can print it out and give it to the customs guy.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:52 AM on June 19, 2013
Auto-Trader in Canada will do a value for you. You can print it out and give it to the customs guy.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:52 AM on June 19, 2013
According to their Importer Checklist, you should only have to pay the RIV fee of about $200.
The site says "$195 + Applicable Taxes", which is what it sounds like we're dealing with here. It'd be great if it was only $200 though, but I suspect everyone will want their pound of flesh.
posted by xedrik at 11:37 AM on June 19, 2013
The site says "$195 + Applicable Taxes", which is what it sounds like we're dealing with here. It'd be great if it was only $200 though, but I suspect everyone will want their pound of flesh.
posted by xedrik at 11:37 AM on June 19, 2013
If you can, reduce the value you claim it at by the amount of money it will take you to bring the car up to Canadian code(enviro inspection, etc)
posted by Yowser at 11:59 AM on June 19, 2013
posted by Yowser at 11:59 AM on June 19, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone. Canadian Black Book estimates the trade-in value at $4300 (in fair condition) without even acknowledgment of the accident. So, we will bring that print-out and record of the accident (which weirdly isn't on Carfax) to reduce the price even further and reduce our tax bill too. I'll report back!
posted by picklebird at 12:12 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by picklebird at 12:12 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Warning: what some dealership would pay in trade is not the same as the actual value of the car.
Surely the Canadian border/tax people have guidance information for this; have you called and asked them?
posted by gjc at 1:47 PM on June 19, 2013
Surely the Canadian border/tax people have guidance information for this; have you called and asked them?
posted by gjc at 1:47 PM on June 19, 2013
Best answer: There's no gold standard for pricing cars at the border. I imported one car, called it $10k, they stamped the paper. I imported the truck, called it $25k, they asked how I got there, I said blue book online, stamped the paper. You just need to be confident and cite some reasoning. No paperwork required. Your lower prices sound fine. Do not state rationale unless asked. Use as few words as possible to answer questions. Answer only the question asked and never supply extra info unless specifically prompted in a follow up question. Do not offer your paperwork.
On fees - Yes you have to pay tax on RIV import, bringing bill over $200. Some manufacturers (ford) make you pay for recall clearance letter, Mazda doesn't, don't know about Honda. Your vehicle must be retrofitted with daytime running lights, do this in Canada. You will need this to pass RIV inspection, which comes after paying the RIV fee and taxes and is paid separately to the outfit doing the inspection. Total all-in is at least $500, plus whatever the province tacks on for their inspection and the work you have to do to pass their inspection. I had to replace a windshield as a stone chip was cracking.
Just a reminder that you may or may not need. Have you registered the vehicle for export from the USA? In Blaine they need 72 hours notice. There are also certain hours for vehicle import / export, it is not a 24 hour operation. You cannot import if you haven't exported. Hopefully this is all old news and your import goes as planned. Good luck!
posted by crazycanuck at 11:00 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
On fees - Yes you have to pay tax on RIV import, bringing bill over $200. Some manufacturers (ford) make you pay for recall clearance letter, Mazda doesn't, don't know about Honda. Your vehicle must be retrofitted with daytime running lights, do this in Canada. You will need this to pass RIV inspection, which comes after paying the RIV fee and taxes and is paid separately to the outfit doing the inspection. Total all-in is at least $500, plus whatever the province tacks on for their inspection and the work you have to do to pass their inspection. I had to replace a windshield as a stone chip was cracking.
Just a reminder that you may or may not need. Have you registered the vehicle for export from the USA? In Blaine they need 72 hours notice. There are also certain hours for vehicle import / export, it is not a 24 hour operation. You cannot import if you haven't exported. Hopefully this is all old news and your import goes as planned. Good luck!
posted by crazycanuck at 11:00 PM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Answer only the question asked and never supply extra info unless specifically prompted in a follow up question."
I find this is very good advice when dealing with immigration and customs folks in general. (and also seems wise in this case.)
posted by el io at 11:07 PM on June 19, 2013
I find this is very good advice when dealing with immigration and customs folks in general. (and also seems wise in this case.)
posted by el io at 11:07 PM on June 19, 2013
I agree that being confident in your estimate and explanation will be a big help. I deal a tiny bit with customs in my job (export licensing) and customs is very unpredictable from country to country and agent to agent.
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 11:26 PM on June 19, 2013
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 11:26 PM on June 19, 2013
Sounds like you are already residents/citizens, but on becoming a permanent resident you can import anything tax-free. You also do not need to import it on the day of landing, only to declare it and its approximate value.
posted by pjenks at 7:58 AM on June 20, 2013
posted by pjenks at 7:58 AM on June 20, 2013
Pjenks that is not the case. If you give up your US resident status coming northbound, you must import your vehicle at that same time. Your car will be turned back at the border without an export stamp (you are free to cross on foot, but that's inconvenient). people that are still US residents when they come north don't have to import, but good luck getting a US insurance company to cover you if you do in fact intend to reside in Canada.
Settlers to Canada and returning residents can import vehicles up to $10k tax free. Above that you have to pay GST. Also they restrict you from selling the car for 1 year due to the waived tax on import.
posted by crazycanuck at 8:50 PM on June 20, 2013
Settlers to Canada and returning residents can import vehicles up to $10k tax free. Above that you have to pay GST. Also they restrict you from selling the car for 1 year due to the waived tax on import.
posted by crazycanuck at 8:50 PM on June 20, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
That said, I'm not you, and I've never been in this situation, so take my suggestion with a splash of sodium.
posted by oceanjesse at 10:25 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]