My boyfriend is really tight with money. How do I navigate this?
June 16, 2013 8:17 AM Subscribe
My partner is a tight-arse, and I hate it. Can you please help me negotiate this?
We live together, since July last year. I have a child from another relationship but my partner and I have been together my child's life - my partner was in the delivery room with me. When we moved in together he said he would pay for half of my child's childcare costs (minus govt subsidies and what I and my child's biological father claim as salary sacrifice, so, say, half of a quarter of the total bill) - then when the first bill came in he said he "changed his mind". Ooookay, I said, sighing. He doesn't pay anything else towards my child's or my daily living expenses.
My partner has a tiny flat. We decided, as a family, that his tiny flat couldn't accommodate all three of us (and it really can't), so we rented a larger house and agreed that the money he received for rent for the tiny flat would be put back into the rent for the larger house. I can't afford to pay my half of the rent for the larger house without this subsidy as well as childcare, which he well knows, and we agreed that the rent he received for his flat would start subsidising our rent in April (his flat needed work, and needed some money spent on it to be suitable for a tenant). April's rent comes, he says he has a credit card bill and "can't afford to give me any money". Same with May.
He rarely pays when we go out, and acts as though it's a huge big deal for him to do so. He also has extremely profligate habits - little things each, but they add up to a lot of money, and he makes me feel as though I am nagging when I tell him he is wasting money. For the household bills, we each have bills that we pay then have a spreadsheet to tally it up at the end of the month and pay each other the difference. Last month, he paid me £23. This month, he is yet to pay me anything (and it's now the 16th), and he owes me around £300 (he hasn't yet input his part of the bills, so I don't know exactly).
I have always lived frugally, but he really doesn't seem to know the definition of the word. He makes a fair bit less than me, but I have far higher bills (with childcare, which he agreed to pay some of but then reneged). I am solidly upper middle class (in the UK definition, not the American) and have never had to worry about money until I moved in with him, where he was raised lower middle class and inherited the money to buy his flat, and money is a constant source of tension and drama in his family.
I love this man and he really does love me, he is wonderful in all other ways and we make decisions together as a partnership in all other aspects of our lives, but this constant issue with money is really starting to wear away at our relationship. We have had a couple of screaming matches over it, but he is also typically English and tries to ignore it, while I can't bear to be in the same room as him sometimes because I feel he just keeps lying to me and I really, really can't afford to pay childcare and rent in this house, which I have told him repeatedly. I am turning into a shrew and I hate it, and I hate this tight-arse when it comes to me, profligate for everything else side of his personality.
Can you help give me some perspective? Am I totally out of line expecting him to live up to his agreements? I told him in our most recent fight that we should have a contract, at least that way I could take him to small claims court when he didn't pay what he agreed, but I really, really don't want that as that would be stupid.
We live together, since July last year. I have a child from another relationship but my partner and I have been together my child's life - my partner was in the delivery room with me. When we moved in together he said he would pay for half of my child's childcare costs (minus govt subsidies and what I and my child's biological father claim as salary sacrifice, so, say, half of a quarter of the total bill) - then when the first bill came in he said he "changed his mind". Ooookay, I said, sighing. He doesn't pay anything else towards my child's or my daily living expenses.
My partner has a tiny flat. We decided, as a family, that his tiny flat couldn't accommodate all three of us (and it really can't), so we rented a larger house and agreed that the money he received for rent for the tiny flat would be put back into the rent for the larger house. I can't afford to pay my half of the rent for the larger house without this subsidy as well as childcare, which he well knows, and we agreed that the rent he received for his flat would start subsidising our rent in April (his flat needed work, and needed some money spent on it to be suitable for a tenant). April's rent comes, he says he has a credit card bill and "can't afford to give me any money". Same with May.
He rarely pays when we go out, and acts as though it's a huge big deal for him to do so. He also has extremely profligate habits - little things each, but they add up to a lot of money, and he makes me feel as though I am nagging when I tell him he is wasting money. For the household bills, we each have bills that we pay then have a spreadsheet to tally it up at the end of the month and pay each other the difference. Last month, he paid me £23. This month, he is yet to pay me anything (and it's now the 16th), and he owes me around £300 (he hasn't yet input his part of the bills, so I don't know exactly).
I have always lived frugally, but he really doesn't seem to know the definition of the word. He makes a fair bit less than me, but I have far higher bills (with childcare, which he agreed to pay some of but then reneged). I am solidly upper middle class (in the UK definition, not the American) and have never had to worry about money until I moved in with him, where he was raised lower middle class and inherited the money to buy his flat, and money is a constant source of tension and drama in his family.
I love this man and he really does love me, he is wonderful in all other ways and we make decisions together as a partnership in all other aspects of our lives, but this constant issue with money is really starting to wear away at our relationship. We have had a couple of screaming matches over it, but he is also typically English and tries to ignore it, while I can't bear to be in the same room as him sometimes because I feel he just keeps lying to me and I really, really can't afford to pay childcare and rent in this house, which I have told him repeatedly. I am turning into a shrew and I hate it, and I hate this tight-arse when it comes to me, profligate for everything else side of his personality.
Can you help give me some perspective? Am I totally out of line expecting him to live up to his agreements? I told him in our most recent fight that we should have a contract, at least that way I could take him to small claims court when he didn't pay what he agreed, but I really, really don't want that as that would be stupid.
He's not acting like a tight-arse, he's acting like an arse-hole.
He's gotten you to subsidize his spending. I won't say that it was conscious--I'll take your word for it that he's otherwise supportive and nice-- but on some level he seems to think your "upper middle class" status and higher salary = you're bringing home the bacon, he has fun money.
The called-for response when someone moves in with you amid promises to help support your child and then "changes his mind" is not "ooooookay," it's "soooooo long."
posted by like_a_friend at 8:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [43 favorites]
He's gotten you to subsidize his spending. I won't say that it was conscious--I'll take your word for it that he's otherwise supportive and nice-- but on some level he seems to think your "upper middle class" status and higher salary = you're bringing home the bacon, he has fun money.
The called-for response when someone moves in with you amid promises to help support your child and then "changes his mind" is not "ooooookay," it's "soooooo long."
posted by like_a_friend at 8:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [43 favorites]
If you decide to stay with this man, you are going to have to accept him as he is, not what you'd like him to be. And plan accordingly.
This would mean getting a smaller place that you can afford by yourself, if it comes to that. I would not let him off the hook financially for contributing to the household, but I would continue to maintain your own finances as if he is not going to contribute, because history says that is what is going to happen.
I'm sorry, for me this would be a deal breaker.
posted by mazienh at 8:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [16 favorites]
This would mean getting a smaller place that you can afford by yourself, if it comes to that. I would not let him off the hook financially for contributing to the household, but I would continue to maintain your own finances as if he is not going to contribute, because history says that is what is going to happen.
I'm sorry, for me this would be a deal breaker.
posted by mazienh at 8:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [16 favorites]
If he's spending everything he earns, and has a "credit card bill" rather than giving you the money, he's not a tightarse. A tightarse is someone who refuses to spend the money, and saves it instead. He's spending it, just not on what he should be.
He needs to live up to his agreements. If he thinks it's an unreasonable agreement, he shouldn't agree to it.
And yes, he's taking advantage of you. Honestly, my reaction at this point would be 'pay your share, now, or move out.'
posted by Ashlyth at 8:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
He needs to live up to his agreements. If he thinks it's an unreasonable agreement, he shouldn't agree to it.
And yes, he's taking advantage of you. Honestly, my reaction at this point would be 'pay your share, now, or move out.'
posted by Ashlyth at 8:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
In terms of advice: Move out. Move to a place you can afford. He doesn't get a vote, and if he complains about the new arrangements, then inform him he will not be living there anymore so he needn't worry.
And honestly? Child support is negotiated with contracts of various types all the time. It wouldn't be "stupid" to have a contract; but it would be useless, because he has no interest in ever contributing money to your needs. You'd spend your life in small-claims.
posted by like_a_friend at 8:28 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
And honestly? Child support is negotiated with contracts of various types all the time. It wouldn't be "stupid" to have a contract; but it would be useless, because he has no interest in ever contributing money to your needs. You'd spend your life in small-claims.
posted by like_a_friend at 8:28 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
Please offer us a throwaway email - I have experienced similar challenges in financial management with my ex and we had similar disparities in background just like your case. Class, and thus background and what's he's seen when growing up do matter a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if this is how he saw his mum manage.
posted by infini at 8:28 AM on June 16, 2013
posted by infini at 8:28 AM on June 16, 2013
It seems as if the issue isn't that he's tight with money in general but that he's selfish with his money. He spends on himself, but not on you or your child. Is this something he is willing to change? If not, is this something you can live with?
I do not think that partners have to be utterly selfless with their money; I think everyone deserves to splash out on fun stuff for themselves (games or shoes or craft material or whatever). But his whining and complaining and refusing to ever pick up the tab when you go out or spend anything on your child makes me think that he doesn't have the kind of goodwill towards you or the desire to make you happy. It's his way or the highway. And while I believe everyone is entitled to treats, etc. I do think that partners ought to be partners in household expenses. If both are working, both should contribute. If one is a stay-home spouse/partner, the stay-home partner contributes in his or her way (housework, emotional support, pet care, what have you). One partner should not be a drain on the other, nor should one partner carry the entire financial and emotional load.
I agree that for me his entitled attitude would be a deal-breaker. Personally, I am over and done with enabling man-children. As a grown-ass woman, I want a grown-ass man.
Also, think of your child - while I don't think it's (usually) a step-father's responsibility to be a "second dad" I do think your child will pick up on how their mother is being treated by mother's partner. Is "a man-child deserves to be enabled by his long-suffering female partner" a message you want to send?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:29 AM on June 16, 2013 [27 favorites]
I do not think that partners have to be utterly selfless with their money; I think everyone deserves to splash out on fun stuff for themselves (games or shoes or craft material or whatever). But his whining and complaining and refusing to ever pick up the tab when you go out or spend anything on your child makes me think that he doesn't have the kind of goodwill towards you or the desire to make you happy. It's his way or the highway. And while I believe everyone is entitled to treats, etc. I do think that partners ought to be partners in household expenses. If both are working, both should contribute. If one is a stay-home spouse/partner, the stay-home partner contributes in his or her way (housework, emotional support, pet care, what have you). One partner should not be a drain on the other, nor should one partner carry the entire financial and emotional load.
I agree that for me his entitled attitude would be a deal-breaker. Personally, I am over and done with enabling man-children. As a grown-ass woman, I want a grown-ass man.
Also, think of your child - while I don't think it's (usually) a step-father's responsibility to be a "second dad" I do think your child will pick up on how their mother is being treated by mother's partner. Is "a man-child deserves to be enabled by his long-suffering female partner" a message you want to send?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:29 AM on June 16, 2013 [27 favorites]
He's a jerk who refuses to pay for anything. Unfortunately, you probably can't force him to pay when he outright refuses. Especially if you are not married.
Your options as I see it are:
(A) break up, because money is an incredibly valid reason to break up. Can you stand to put up with him doing this for life? Plus you already have one kid to pay for--can you afford to pay for him all the time too?
(B) don't break up, but regard him as a house husband with no job who won't be contributing financially to anything. Stop expecting him to pay (since he flakes and refuses) and deal with money as if you had two dependents.
(C) don't break up, but do move out, saying that you can't afford to pay for 3 people all the time without help and he needs to at least take care of himself because you cannot take care of him too. Maybe marital-ish partnership is just not gonna work with this guy and the relationship needs to be dialed back.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:37 AM on June 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
Your options as I see it are:
(A) break up, because money is an incredibly valid reason to break up. Can you stand to put up with him doing this for life? Plus you already have one kid to pay for--can you afford to pay for him all the time too?
(B) don't break up, but regard him as a house husband with no job who won't be contributing financially to anything. Stop expecting him to pay (since he flakes and refuses) and deal with money as if you had two dependents.
(C) don't break up, but do move out, saying that you can't afford to pay for 3 people all the time without help and he needs to at least take care of himself because you cannot take care of him too. Maybe marital-ish partnership is just not gonna work with this guy and the relationship needs to be dialed back.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:37 AM on June 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
Money Demons by Susan Forward & Craig Buck might be worth looking through.
How much have you communicated to him that the money issues are intolerable for you? It might be time to lay it out for him. If you forsee that this has to change or the relationship is going to end I'd tell him. If you picture that your going to be with him even without a solution on this front let him know that its a source of unhappiness, but ultimately your stuck unless he changes.
posted by logonym at 8:48 AM on June 16, 2013
How much have you communicated to him that the money issues are intolerable for you? It might be time to lay it out for him. If you forsee that this has to change or the relationship is going to end I'd tell him. If you picture that your going to be with him even without a solution on this front let him know that its a source of unhappiness, but ultimately your stuck unless he changes.
posted by logonym at 8:48 AM on June 16, 2013
Yeah, he's not thrifty. He's not cheap. He's just selfish. He prefers to spend his money on himself; and you spend your money on yourself, your child, and some joint expenses.
Maybe you can raise this issue framed this way. Maybe he doesn't he realize how selfish he is being. Maybe.
Or, more likely, this is who he is. Are you okay with being him, if this is who he is? That's the real question you have to grapple with.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Maybe you can raise this issue framed this way. Maybe he doesn't he realize how selfish he is being. Maybe.
Or, more likely, this is who he is. Are you okay with being him, if this is who he is? That's the real question you have to grapple with.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Accept the fact that he will never, ever willingly give you or your child any kind of financial support. Ever. Is this something you want to deal with for the long term? Furthermore, once your child is old enough to understand what's going on, there is going to be a lot of emotional upheaval and depression and self-blame that no little kid ever deserves to feel.
I am solidly upper middle class (in the UK definition, not the American) and have never had to worry about money until I moved in with him, where he was raised lower middle class and inherited the money to buy his flat, and money is a constant source of tension and drama in his family.
This man resents and despises the privilege you were born with and it will not be long until he openly resents and despises you. I don't want to assign blame to either one of you because it feels like you've both made mistakes: him in not being honest about his firm decision to never support you, and you in giving him so many chances.
posted by elizardbits at 8:51 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
I am solidly upper middle class (in the UK definition, not the American) and have never had to worry about money until I moved in with him, where he was raised lower middle class and inherited the money to buy his flat, and money is a constant source of tension and drama in his family.
This man resents and despises the privilege you were born with and it will not be long until he openly resents and despises you. I don't want to assign blame to either one of you because it feels like you've both made mistakes: him in not being honest about his firm decision to never support you, and you in giving him so many chances.
posted by elizardbits at 8:51 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
Your boyfriend is not tight with money, he just prefers to spend it on himself, not you and your child and your joint life. Not only that he also lies about his wish to spend money on your joint life and thus lets you get into financial commitments that overstretch you.
You need to move out asap into accommodation you can afford. He can stay in the house and pay all the bills. That won't go down very well. The thing is he's not prepared to consider people other than himself and has so little respect for you that he allows you to overstretch yourself financially because he lies to you. So that means that you seriously need to reconsider the assumptions you made about a joint life with this man, if not the entire relationship.
To protect your and your child's financial future at the very least you have to dial the relationship right back to where there is no assumption that he will ever be contributing equitably as far as finances go, no matter what he says. For me that would be a deal breaker because it means that you'll just keep having to deal with this issue unless you are willing and able to foot ALL the bills.
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:52 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
You need to move out asap into accommodation you can afford. He can stay in the house and pay all the bills. That won't go down very well. The thing is he's not prepared to consider people other than himself and has so little respect for you that he allows you to overstretch yourself financially because he lies to you. So that means that you seriously need to reconsider the assumptions you made about a joint life with this man, if not the entire relationship.
To protect your and your child's financial future at the very least you have to dial the relationship right back to where there is no assumption that he will ever be contributing equitably as far as finances go, no matter what he says. For me that would be a deal breaker because it means that you'll just keep having to deal with this issue unless you are willing and able to foot ALL the bills.
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:52 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Okay, move back to where you were living before- he is not into sharing a life, at least financially with you and your child.
Secondly, if you don't do that, then get a joint account which you both put in equal amounts of rent and bill money. No conversations, just put the money in there, and pull it out for joint expenses, period.
Or, go back to suggestion one.
posted by bquarters at 8:53 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Secondly, if you don't do that, then get a joint account which you both put in equal amounts of rent and bill money. No conversations, just put the money in there, and pull it out for joint expenses, period.
Or, go back to suggestion one.
posted by bquarters at 8:53 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Kick him out and tell him the conditions for returning. You can't go on this way even though you love him, so force the issue. Love might be the only thing powerful enough to change him, and if that doesn't work, well then you know he'll never change. So no matter what he does (returns or doesn't), you'll have clarity.
posted by Dansaman at 9:01 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Dansaman at 9:01 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
There are many reasons why this is a bad situation due to boyfriend's bad behavior. But, please also consider what you're teaching your child about money, security of the family, and partnership by staying in this relationship.
posted by quince at 9:01 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by quince at 9:01 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
If he offered to pay certain expenses and then went back on it, then yes, that is sleazy. If you asked him, pressured him even, to pay certain expenses and then he went back on it, then that is just what you get. Doesn't make him cheap, just makes him weak and afraid of conflict.
If you cannot afford to live where you live, with your child, then it is your responsibility to find somewhere less expensive. Start looking now. Alert him to the fact that he will be losing a roommate. And then get control of your life.
Once he sees that you are capable of making it without him, the pressure on him will be off, and he will either step up and do what needs to be done to keep you or you will be free of him. Either way, you will be taking care of your responsibilities.
posted by myselfasme at 9:02 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
If you cannot afford to live where you live, with your child, then it is your responsibility to find somewhere less expensive. Start looking now. Alert him to the fact that he will be losing a roommate. And then get control of your life.
Once he sees that you are capable of making it without him, the pressure on him will be off, and he will either step up and do what needs to be done to keep you or you will be free of him. Either way, you will be taking care of your responsibilities.
posted by myselfasme at 9:02 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
At the end of your post, you say he's wonderful in all other ways, but it's really hard to imagine how someone who is otherwise completely thoughtful and a partner can be so selfish and manipulative in one (very large) area. As others have pointed out, he's not tight with money. He just refuses to share. Not only that, but he makes promises to you and then refuses to keep them, and then acts like you're out of line for asking him to hold up his end of the bargain. It's just so hard to imagine how this behavior could be an exception to the rest of his personality.
It sounds like, at least financially, you'd be better off on your own. You'd have to pay childcare and rent on your own, but you do that now. You'd be able to get a smaller place, and you wouldn't be subsidizing his expenses.
If he were simply forgetful or bad at money management, you could look into budgeting tools (e.g. have a portion of each pay check direct deposited into a joint account for shared expenses), but the deeper issue seems to be that he simply doesn't want to contribute any money to shared expenses.
posted by pompelmo at 9:04 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
It sounds like, at least financially, you'd be better off on your own. You'd have to pay childcare and rent on your own, but you do that now. You'd be able to get a smaller place, and you wouldn't be subsidizing his expenses.
If he were simply forgetful or bad at money management, you could look into budgeting tools (e.g. have a portion of each pay check direct deposited into a joint account for shared expenses), but the deeper issue seems to be that he simply doesn't want to contribute any money to shared expenses.
posted by pompelmo at 9:04 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
One very much can love an unethical person, and that person can love one back, but what does that really say?
That he made you agree to certain financial conditions and then himself failed to live up to the agreement is not really solved by a bunch of shouting matches, I fear. See it as a tweaking of the truth, in order to tip the power balance in his favor. I feel that you need to think of strategies to get that power back; a full financial disengagement seems overdue, and other kinds of disengagement, one feels, should follow.
The fact that someone was there at the birth of your child doesn't mean anything, if the same person isn't loyal to the both of you later.
posted by Namlit at 9:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
That he made you agree to certain financial conditions and then himself failed to live up to the agreement is not really solved by a bunch of shouting matches, I fear. See it as a tweaking of the truth, in order to tip the power balance in his favor. I feel that you need to think of strategies to get that power back; a full financial disengagement seems overdue, and other kinds of disengagement, one feels, should follow.
The fact that someone was there at the birth of your child doesn't mean anything, if the same person isn't loyal to the both of you later.
posted by Namlit at 9:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Your partner may love you, but their actions show that they don't respect you. Maybe they have demons about money, and the result of whatever internal processes is that they are not treating you fairly or respectfully.
If they're willing to talk openly about this and to change, both by settling up now and going to therapy or counseling to work on their money and honesty issues, in that scenario I could see things working out.
But if they aren't willing to pull their weight, and they aren't willing to change, then you need to move on from them and find a partner who is steady and honest.
posted by zippy at 9:09 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
If they're willing to talk openly about this and to change, both by settling up now and going to therapy or counseling to work on their money and honesty issues, in that scenario I could see things working out.
But if they aren't willing to pull their weight, and they aren't willing to change, then you need to move on from them and find a partner who is steady and honest.
posted by zippy at 9:09 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
I believe that the most important thing about how a couple handles money is that they agree on their method and plan--whether they're totally combining finances, keeping totally separate accounts, or something in between. Different financial arrangements work for different couples, as long as they're intentional and do not harbor resentment. You and your partner are not in agreement about how to bear the financial burdens of your shared life together. You resent his selfish spending habits and refusal to contribute, and he (it sounds like) resents your expectation that he contribute financially.
It could be that he's jealous of or intimidated by your relatively higher income and wealthier background, and so he acts like it isn't his responsibility to contribute to your shared financial life together as a way of avoiding those feelings. It could be that he truly believes it isn't his responsibility to contribute to your shared financial life together because you earn more than him and are more responsible with your income (i.e., even if you're stressing out about money, you're surviving financially without his help).
In any case, he's treating you poorly and the solution isn't a matter of finding the right words to say to him. The solution is a matter of figuring out your needs, stating them, and meaning what you say. I think you have a couple options:
1) Tell your partner that, although you love him, the current arrangement isn't working for you, and ask him to choose between continuing the relationship with shared financial responsibilities or break up. If he refuses, or agrees but fails to live up to his commitment, break up. If he commits to contributing financially and does so, stay together.
2) Tell your partner that, although you love him, the current arrangement isn't working for you, and that you and your child will be moving into an apartment you can afford on your own. Negotiate with him about what this will mean for your relationship--do you break up? do you continue to see each other with zero financial dependence between you (i.e., you don't expect him to pay for anything of yours, and he doesn't expect you to pay for anything of his, including meals the two of you share)?
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:11 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
It could be that he's jealous of or intimidated by your relatively higher income and wealthier background, and so he acts like it isn't his responsibility to contribute to your shared financial life together as a way of avoiding those feelings. It could be that he truly believes it isn't his responsibility to contribute to your shared financial life together because you earn more than him and are more responsible with your income (i.e., even if you're stressing out about money, you're surviving financially without his help).
In any case, he's treating you poorly and the solution isn't a matter of finding the right words to say to him. The solution is a matter of figuring out your needs, stating them, and meaning what you say. I think you have a couple options:
1) Tell your partner that, although you love him, the current arrangement isn't working for you, and ask him to choose between continuing the relationship with shared financial responsibilities or break up. If he refuses, or agrees but fails to live up to his commitment, break up. If he commits to contributing financially and does so, stay together.
2) Tell your partner that, although you love him, the current arrangement isn't working for you, and that you and your child will be moving into an apartment you can afford on your own. Negotiate with him about what this will mean for your relationship--do you break up? do you continue to see each other with zero financial dependence between you (i.e., you don't expect him to pay for anything of yours, and he doesn't expect you to pay for anything of his, including meals the two of you share)?
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:11 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
In my experience a lot of couples are really bad at making financial agreements. This is often to the extent that what one person thinks was an agreement the other thinks was just a discussion of options. I would sit down and do a budget for joint expenses together and then both sign up to it. Thi will not only give you a firm foundation but will uncover any misunderstandings or resentments.
posted by BenPens at 9:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by BenPens at 9:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
So, you pay all the rent, and he lives there? So not acceptable. You have an agreement, he doesn't abide by it. You probably have a lease - did he sign it? If he did, tell him that he needs to pay the June rent himself, as he owes several month's back rent. If he didn't, tell him to leave so you can get a roommate who will pay rent. How he spends his own disposable income is up to him, but he has made financial commitments and must honor them. Don't go out with him unless he shares the cost, don't front him any money, don't subsidize him at all. It's fair for him to not pay expenses for your child, but not fair to offer to help, and not help.
My ex- always agreed to more-than-fair financial agreements, and then just didn't pay up. So we put utilities in his name, but then we'd need oil, and he 'just didn't have the money.' He'd take friends to lunch, but not be able to take me to dinner. He'd loan money to friends but not be able to buy clothes for our child. When we bought a house with my (non-marital) cash down payment, we had a written agreement about what would happen if we split. We split, and more than 15 years later, he still complains about not getting half the equity (I see him sometimes because of our son).
Your BF is not going to change at all unless he has to deal with the consequences of his behavior. My experience biases me to believe he's just not going to change at all.
posted by theora55 at 9:13 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
My ex- always agreed to more-than-fair financial agreements, and then just didn't pay up. So we put utilities in his name, but then we'd need oil, and he 'just didn't have the money.' He'd take friends to lunch, but not be able to take me to dinner. He'd loan money to friends but not be able to buy clothes for our child. When we bought a house with my (non-marital) cash down payment, we had a written agreement about what would happen if we split. We split, and more than 15 years later, he still complains about not getting half the equity (I see him sometimes because of our son).
Your BF is not going to change at all unless he has to deal with the consequences of his behavior. My experience biases me to believe he's just not going to change at all.
posted by theora55 at 9:13 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
Some of the above answers are kind of dismissive of the man, based on a short question with little background. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of background here, and I get the feeling he may feel resentful about supporting someone who comes from more money than he does. And resentful about being asked to support a child that isn't his. It may be passive-aggressive, I don't know. Good luck.
posted by inkypinky at 9:18 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by inkypinky at 9:18 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
If he's great in every way except for the (large and important) category of sharing expenses, then DON'T SHARE EXPENSES WITH HIM. Move out, to a place sized for you and your child, which you can afford on your own, and you can continue (if you choose to continue) the aspects of your relationship which do work.
That said, I suspect that what was pointed out above is absolutely true -- that he resents you for being of a higher socioeconomic class; that he expects that you SHOULD pay for him because how dare you not, you rich bitch; and that over time this will get worse, not better.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:19 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
That said, I suspect that what was pointed out above is absolutely true -- that he resents you for being of a higher socioeconomic class; that he expects that you SHOULD pay for him because how dare you not, you rich bitch; and that over time this will get worse, not better.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:19 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
We decided, as a family, that his tiny flat couldn't accommodate all three of us
I am getting the sense that he does not fully comprehend the meaning or importance of this phrase.
posted by invisible ink at 9:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [14 favorites]
I am getting the sense that he does not fully comprehend the meaning or importance of this phrase.
posted by invisible ink at 9:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [14 favorites]
What's the point of being with a guy like this? To me, supporting one another is one of the biggest parts of a relationship. It doesn't sound like he's supporting you or being sensitive to your needs as well as your child's.
posted by parakeetdog at 9:33 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by parakeetdog at 9:33 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
this would be a total deal breaker for me - I just wouldn't be able to trust him anymore. he may someday be able to grow up and be responsible for himself, but it will never happen as long as you continue to subsidize him. sorry that you have to go through this.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 9:41 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 9:41 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Screaming fights are not going to help the situation. Can you get away from him for a day or two to get your head on straight? Your arrangements sound completely reasonable to me; his continued reneging on agreements is a pattern you need to either accept as a permanent feature of your relationship or end the relationship over. I would actually write out that contract (including the back rent and bills) and have a conversation with him where the contract is used as a jumping off point. You don't need it because you plan to go to court, use it so the expectations are very clear for both of you and when one of you breaks the deal it is clear the consequences are because of a broken agreement. I would be out the door the moment he breaks it though, start getting your exit plan in place now.
posted by saucysault at 9:59 AM on June 16, 2013
posted by saucysault at 9:59 AM on June 16, 2013
He needs to be separate from you so that he can decide to truly make a commitment. It sounds like he hasn't done that, and he's carving out his own space in the way he can - by buying himself little indulgences. He may or may not really be ready for a family, but he has to decide that freshly.
posted by amtho at 10:02 AM on June 16, 2013
posted by amtho at 10:02 AM on June 16, 2013
I am guessing your SO's issues with money come from his family not having much money when he was young, making him both fearful of poverty AND clueless about spending. You don't know how to budget for the future when you are used to not even having enough to pay the bills. So he probably really DOES want to help with expenses, but just cannot budget, runs short every month and PANICS. That's not a tight-arse, as others jave pointed out, but a guy in over his head financially. And he is going to keep on digging that financial hole unless something drastic happens, and by then it will probably be too late. he'll be massively in debt and STILL not know how to budget.
I'm sorry, but you are going to have to take control of the finances. So you tell him you two need to talk--no yelling or nagging, be calm but firm!--sit him down and explain how this needs to go, with a deadline YOU set (no, "he says May, May comes around and he reneges" stuff) For your conditions to be set. If he doesn't meet the conditions by the deadline, you will move out. Period. And you cannot waiver on that, because as you've said you simpy cannot afford this living situation without him paying his fair share.
So, what conditions sould you set?
There are a couple ways to go here.
You can tell him you are gong to set up an appointment for the two of you to go to a professional financial consultant. the consultant will objectively set up a fair monthly budget, which both of you will agree to.
This tactic makes the situation less personal; it is not you yelling at him about what he owes and him getting all defensive about money, but the two of you taking control of "our financial issues" together, as a united couple. Hopefuly, he will even learn a little about setting up a realistic budget along the way. The problem with this tactic, though, is that you have to trust him to keep up with his end of the bargain. He may have to live on an allowance that has him chafing at the bit.
The second option is him agreeing to allow you to manage all the finances entirely. His paycheck gets deposited automatically, and you trade in the spreadsheets for Mint or similar to chart actual expenses accurately. You set up automatic payments to take care of the bills AND the stuff he agreed to,pay, like his half of the rent, etc. If he owes money on his credit cards, you take them, too, and they get locked up until they are paid off. You could even cut them up if necessary.
Naturally, this strategy is a hard sell. He has to acknowlege he is at fault for the money problems, and he will probably be thrown into PANIC mode again at the thought of giving up control of his finances. You will have to cushion this second strategy by including a set amount for him to spend on whatever he wants each month, aka mad money.
Warning! If youu go with this second strategy, he will have no realistic idea what that mad money amount should be. Thus, he will probably either ask for way too much mad money (running up more debt) or, more likely, lowball it initially and then want more in the middle of the month because he's run out of money. You will need to prepare for this by having a reasonable idea in mind, based on actual monthly expenses. If he asks for an amount you know is too high, suggest less and explain why. if he asks for too little, though, go along with it and have a cushion in reserve for when he inevitably runs into trouble. Renegotiate the mad money. Instead of nagging, you will be bailing him out of trouble (which is at least better off than you are now). Hopefully, eventually he will even learn how to budget accordingly.
Remember, whichever strategy you choose, you MUST be prepared to walk away if your SO won't accept your conditions. Be firm. You are in the right here.
Good luck!
posted by misha at 10:11 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm sorry, but you are going to have to take control of the finances. So you tell him you two need to talk--no yelling or nagging, be calm but firm!--sit him down and explain how this needs to go, with a deadline YOU set (no, "he says May, May comes around and he reneges" stuff) For your conditions to be set. If he doesn't meet the conditions by the deadline, you will move out. Period. And you cannot waiver on that, because as you've said you simpy cannot afford this living situation without him paying his fair share.
So, what conditions sould you set?
There are a couple ways to go here.
You can tell him you are gong to set up an appointment for the two of you to go to a professional financial consultant. the consultant will objectively set up a fair monthly budget, which both of you will agree to.
This tactic makes the situation less personal; it is not you yelling at him about what he owes and him getting all defensive about money, but the two of you taking control of "our financial issues" together, as a united couple. Hopefuly, he will even learn a little about setting up a realistic budget along the way. The problem with this tactic, though, is that you have to trust him to keep up with his end of the bargain. He may have to live on an allowance that has him chafing at the bit.
The second option is him agreeing to allow you to manage all the finances entirely. His paycheck gets deposited automatically, and you trade in the spreadsheets for Mint or similar to chart actual expenses accurately. You set up automatic payments to take care of the bills AND the stuff he agreed to,pay, like his half of the rent, etc. If he owes money on his credit cards, you take them, too, and they get locked up until they are paid off. You could even cut them up if necessary.
Naturally, this strategy is a hard sell. He has to acknowlege he is at fault for the money problems, and he will probably be thrown into PANIC mode again at the thought of giving up control of his finances. You will have to cushion this second strategy by including a set amount for him to spend on whatever he wants each month, aka mad money.
Warning! If youu go with this second strategy, he will have no realistic idea what that mad money amount should be. Thus, he will probably either ask for way too much mad money (running up more debt) or, more likely, lowball it initially and then want more in the middle of the month because he's run out of money. You will need to prepare for this by having a reasonable idea in mind, based on actual monthly expenses. If he asks for an amount you know is too high, suggest less and explain why. if he asks for too little, though, go along with it and have a cushion in reserve for when he inevitably runs into trouble. Renegotiate the mad money. Instead of nagging, you will be bailing him out of trouble (which is at least better off than you are now). Hopefully, eventually he will even learn how to budget accordingly.
Remember, whichever strategy you choose, you MUST be prepared to walk away if your SO won't accept your conditions. Be firm. You are in the right here.
Good luck!
posted by misha at 10:11 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Yes, seconding that you need to move into a place you can afford. He can come if you're ok with the knowledge that he won't be paying for anything, ever. If you're not OK with that, dump him.
posted by bleep at 10:15 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 10:15 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Write up a lease with him. Be explicit about things like late fees if he doesn't pay his rent.
posted by sciencegeek at 10:24 AM on June 16, 2013
posted by sciencegeek at 10:24 AM on June 16, 2013
Scare quotes and explanations that seem to have been taken completely out of context aside, there seems to be an awful lot of passively voiced hand-waving in your explanation of the background of this complaint. On further review the facts just don't add up.
You say you live frugally, and you are solidly upper middle class. So despite making far more than he does, you are dependent on his income? That is not the definition of solidly upper middle class.
You say you never had to worry about money until you moved in with him. Living in his tiny flat was the precipitating factor towards your penury? When you say you can't afford to pay rent by yourself, is that more of a figurative usage?
Something big is definitely missing in your explanation. From my perspective it looks like you are trying to make yourself look as charitable as possible while being upset you don't have total control over every financial aspect of his life. If anything it seems like you're the one who is making a series of rash financial decisions in order to live the standard of living that you were previous accustomed to before you had a child, and then you're blaming him on not bailing you out of the resulting mess. If you make a fair bit more money than he does, and you ostensibly split childcare and rent, where the heck is all your money going?
Of course, it is extremely poor form for him to not pay what he owes, but that particular offense does not seem to be the main problem with your finances, for the reasons I have outlined above. At a minimum there's a significant chunk of the story missing, which you may have omitted to shorten and simplify the narrative, but it doesn't scan as it currently stands.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 10:41 AM on June 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
You say you live frugally, and you are solidly upper middle class. So despite making far more than he does, you are dependent on his income? That is not the definition of solidly upper middle class.
You say you never had to worry about money until you moved in with him. Living in his tiny flat was the precipitating factor towards your penury? When you say you can't afford to pay rent by yourself, is that more of a figurative usage?
Something big is definitely missing in your explanation. From my perspective it looks like you are trying to make yourself look as charitable as possible while being upset you don't have total control over every financial aspect of his life. If anything it seems like you're the one who is making a series of rash financial decisions in order to live the standard of living that you were previous accustomed to before you had a child, and then you're blaming him on not bailing you out of the resulting mess. If you make a fair bit more money than he does, and you ostensibly split childcare and rent, where the heck is all your money going?
Of course, it is extremely poor form for him to not pay what he owes, but that particular offense does not seem to be the main problem with your finances, for the reasons I have outlined above. At a minimum there's a significant chunk of the story missing, which you may have omitted to shorten and simplify the narrative, but it doesn't scan as it currently stands.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 10:41 AM on June 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
I would go through an calculate the total cost of the bills each month: rent, cable, heat, gas, electric, council tax, childcare, groceries, etc. Split that amount and adjust for your weird childcare costs deal. That should give you a total, divided into an amount for you and an amount for him.
Open a new account out of which all household bills will be paid. Get him to pay his portion into that account via Direct Debit from his pay cheques.
If he will not do that, then you need to live in separate households when the lease for his sitting tenant expires.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:44 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Open a new account out of which all household bills will be paid. Get him to pay his portion into that account via Direct Debit from his pay cheques.
If he will not do that, then you need to live in separate households when the lease for his sitting tenant expires.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:44 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your partner is not a partner.
posted by srboisvert at 10:52 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 10:52 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
hobo gitano de queretaro has a very good point.
You've failed to add the financial details that would let any outsider or person here on MeFi give a fair opinion of the situation.
What I can guess from the details you've shared of your situation is that you are splitting rent , bills, food 50/50 plus you expect him to use his income from his flat to subsidize your half of the rent. You have a large income, he has a small one. Is this correct?
It's hard to guess the situation from this little amount of info, but are you both contributing a fair proportion and equal percentage of your incomes to the monthly bills or not? If hes paying 1/2 but making far less, this would most definitely explain why he is not ok with paying for dinners out, etc, and what he does with his remaining money is not yours to dictate.
I think you definitely need to update with a rundown of how you split your bills and what the income disparity is for anyone to give any further advice here.
posted by tenaciousmoon at 11:00 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
You've failed to add the financial details that would let any outsider or person here on MeFi give a fair opinion of the situation.
What I can guess from the details you've shared of your situation is that you are splitting rent , bills, food 50/50 plus you expect him to use his income from his flat to subsidize your half of the rent. You have a large income, he has a small one. Is this correct?
It's hard to guess the situation from this little amount of info, but are you both contributing a fair proportion and equal percentage of your incomes to the monthly bills or not? If hes paying 1/2 but making far less, this would most definitely explain why he is not ok with paying for dinners out, etc, and what he does with his remaining money is not yours to dictate.
I think you definitely need to update with a rundown of how you split your bills and what the income disparity is for anyone to give any further advice here.
posted by tenaciousmoon at 11:00 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Have you tried asking him what he thinks a fair contribution would be? I ask because one of your complaints is that he agreed to pay some of your childcare costs but then went back on it. You also say that your child's biological dad is in the picture and paying towards some of the costs (or at least getting tax relief on childcare vouchers), but somehow some of the cost has landed in your partner's lap. Ethical issues of whether he promised or not aside, I personally don't think it's any of his his responsibility. If you broke up tomorrow, would you grant your partner any custody rights? Is your child's father paying any other maintenance towards your child's upkeep?
You also say that you earn more than him. When my wife and I had significantly different incomes (10K plus), we tried splitting it 50-50, but that just led to resentment because the person with the smaller income had very little left over at the end of the month. So we agreed to pro-rate our shared responsibilities based on how much our incomes differed, so we both ended up with roughly the same proportion of disposable income, and we made very sure that we agreed what our shared responsibilities were. The credit card for the appliances we chose together? Split it. My car payments? My problem.
I think if you're going to get through this and remain a couple, you need to sit down and have a talk about what you feel your shared responsibilities are, particularly with regards to your child, both financially and otherwise.
posted by peteyjlawson at 11:03 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
You also say that you earn more than him. When my wife and I had significantly different incomes (10K plus), we tried splitting it 50-50, but that just led to resentment because the person with the smaller income had very little left over at the end of the month. So we agreed to pro-rate our shared responsibilities based on how much our incomes differed, so we both ended up with roughly the same proportion of disposable income, and we made very sure that we agreed what our shared responsibilities were. The credit card for the appliances we chose together? Split it. My car payments? My problem.
I think if you're going to get through this and remain a couple, you need to sit down and have a talk about what you feel your shared responsibilities are, particularly with regards to your child, both financially and otherwise.
posted by peteyjlawson at 11:03 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
The big mistake you made was not memorializing your mutual budget in writing and gaining full buy-in from each of you.
It may make the most sense to each move into your own places. He back to his flat and you into a situation that allows you to afford your life in a way that makes you comfortable.
In reality he doesn't owe you money for your child's school. What you contribute to the rent needs to be negotiated and stuck to. I'm sure he didn't tell the landlord that he had a credit card bill so he couldn't pay the rent. I mean, that shit don't fly.
He's not really a full partner, if he's not willing to contribute what is fair to the household. You may expect him to contribute more to your "family" but he may only think that paying his own way is appropriate. That's a pretty big schism.
Sit down when you're both not agitated or annoyed and really discuss the issue. Explain that you can't afford living in your current flat and that you need to make other arrangements. Show him your budget and explain that what you can afford is X and only X.
Ask him, "Would you rather be living on your own in your old flat, or would you prefer to live with me and child in a different place?" Because those are the only options. Of course at this point he may say, "oh! But I'll give you more money if we keep things the same." If that's the case, then you need to get him to sign off on it, "I'd love that, but I need to count on it. I haven't been able to count on it and it's caused me stress, so much so that I need you to put it in writing and to be a full partner in this family."
I'm sorry, but your 'partner' is telling you in every way except with words that he doesn't feel that he's your partner and that your daughter is not part of his family. I would TOTALLY reevaluate the relationship based on this.
Start looking for a nice flat for you and your daughter.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
It may make the most sense to each move into your own places. He back to his flat and you into a situation that allows you to afford your life in a way that makes you comfortable.
In reality he doesn't owe you money for your child's school. What you contribute to the rent needs to be negotiated and stuck to. I'm sure he didn't tell the landlord that he had a credit card bill so he couldn't pay the rent. I mean, that shit don't fly.
He's not really a full partner, if he's not willing to contribute what is fair to the household. You may expect him to contribute more to your "family" but he may only think that paying his own way is appropriate. That's a pretty big schism.
Sit down when you're both not agitated or annoyed and really discuss the issue. Explain that you can't afford living in your current flat and that you need to make other arrangements. Show him your budget and explain that what you can afford is X and only X.
Ask him, "Would you rather be living on your own in your old flat, or would you prefer to live with me and child in a different place?" Because those are the only options. Of course at this point he may say, "oh! But I'll give you more money if we keep things the same." If that's the case, then you need to get him to sign off on it, "I'd love that, but I need to count on it. I haven't been able to count on it and it's caused me stress, so much so that I need you to put it in writing and to be a full partner in this family."
I'm sorry, but your 'partner' is telling you in every way except with words that he doesn't feel that he's your partner and that your daughter is not part of his family. I would TOTALLY reevaluate the relationship based on this.
Start looking for a nice flat for you and your daughter.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
You're using the words "family" and "partnership" but he is not engaged at that level.
I would have taken the financial flakiness towards the child as a statement that he is not invested in being a part of your family, and ended things there.
posted by kmennie at 11:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
I would have taken the financial flakiness towards the child as a statement that he is not invested in being a part of your family, and ended things there.
posted by kmennie at 11:26 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
I don't understand this. You say he doesn't pay anything towards your living expenses or the expenses of your child, but why should he? You're an adult, the child is not his, and you make more money than he does. You also say he agreed to put the rent from his small flat towards the rent of your place together, but again, I don't see why he should. And, you say he owes you back rent for your place together. There I agree with you: that is bad and he should pay you the rent he owes.
It sounds like he has made financial commitments to you, or you think he has, and he isn't honouring them. That's bad. But it also sounds like you have expectations of him that could be seen as unreasonable. Why did you move into a place that you can't afford to pay half the rent on, without him subsidizing it with the rent of his other place plus childcare payments? Why should he pay for your childcare? Why would you expect him to pay when you go out?
I think the two of you need to talk seriously about what you can expect from each other. I do think your perspective here is out of whack. It sounds like you view the two of you as a family, with him as the main provider, and he doesn't.
posted by Susan PG at 11:56 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
It sounds like he has made financial commitments to you, or you think he has, and he isn't honouring them. That's bad. But it also sounds like you have expectations of him that could be seen as unreasonable. Why did you move into a place that you can't afford to pay half the rent on, without him subsidizing it with the rent of his other place plus childcare payments? Why should he pay for your childcare? Why would you expect him to pay when you go out?
I think the two of you need to talk seriously about what you can expect from each other. I do think your perspective here is out of whack. It sounds like you view the two of you as a family, with him as the main provider, and he doesn't.
posted by Susan PG at 11:56 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
I am putting aside the issue of who should pay which expenses, and answering your question directly:
Am I totally out of line expecting him to live up to his agreements?
At one month? No. After two months? No. A year later? Yes. If the weatherman tells me it's going to rain today I'm not going to wait until 11:59 PM to see if it does.
I note that your question was not "Should he live up to the agreements he made?"
posted by Room 641-A at 12:36 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Am I totally out of line expecting him to live up to his agreements?
At one month? No. After two months? No. A year later? Yes. If the weatherman tells me it's going to rain today I'm not going to wait until 11:59 PM to see if it does.
I note that your question was not "Should he live up to the agreements he made?"
posted by Room 641-A at 12:36 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sorry, he's a mooch and a loser. If he doesn't agree with that definition, then let him step up to the plate and honor his agreements.
With the exception of the child care, expenses should be divided down the middle. He's living there, half the expenses are his responsibility. He is not the biological father, so he has no financial or legal responsibility to your child. He does have a responsibility to step up and not have you subsidize his lifestyle.
I'm curious if he interacts with your child like a father--including birthday, Christmas, and other giving, or if he's more concerned with providing himself with the toys.
That you're considering contracts and small claims court certainly doesn't sound like you feel this man is part of your 'family.' You and your child are a family, this guy is a hanger-on. Dump the house you can't afford, and get a place where you can be financially independent of this guy. Then go find a grown up that will treat you and your daughter the way you deserve to be treated.
But, please also consider what you're teaching your child about money, security of the family, and partnership by staying in this relationship.
This.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:02 PM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
With the exception of the child care, expenses should be divided down the middle. He's living there, half the expenses are his responsibility. He is not the biological father, so he has no financial or legal responsibility to your child. He does have a responsibility to step up and not have you subsidize his lifestyle.
I'm curious if he interacts with your child like a father--including birthday, Christmas, and other giving, or if he's more concerned with providing himself with the toys.
That you're considering contracts and small claims court certainly doesn't sound like you feel this man is part of your 'family.' You and your child are a family, this guy is a hanger-on. Dump the house you can't afford, and get a place where you can be financially independent of this guy. Then go find a grown up that will treat you and your daughter the way you deserve to be treated.
But, please also consider what you're teaching your child about money, security of the family, and partnership by staying in this relationship.
This.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:02 PM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Firstly, he really does not have any obligation to pay for your child. He shouldn't have said he would, but IMHO you shouldn't have asked him. It sounds like the problem is that both of you are living a life you can't afford. Here's what my partner and I do to painlessly manage our money; he has a child and I do not.
1) Calculate your take-home pay per month, and his. His will be whatever his paycheque is after taxes and so forth are taken off. Yours will be that, minus your child care cost but plus the money you get from the child's father.
2) Each of you will deposit 50% of your take-home pay into a joint account. That will cover rent, groceries and other fixed bills. Your child's share of that is covered by your including the money from its father into the pot. Your cellphone, his cellphone and personal fixed expenses are not covered; this pot is solely stuff you pay together.
3) The remaking 50% of each person's money can be spent as they see fit---personal phones or bills, eating out not done together, personal expenses of your child etc.
It is important for you to crunch these numbers. If 50% of your combined take home is not enough to cover your joint expenses, then your home is too rich for your blood and you need to find cheaper accommodation. If he is also not willing to put that much into a joint life with you then he is too selfish to be in this relationship---remember, he would still have 50% to spend as he pleased!
posted by JoannaC at 1:54 PM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
1) Calculate your take-home pay per month, and his. His will be whatever his paycheque is after taxes and so forth are taken off. Yours will be that, minus your child care cost but plus the money you get from the child's father.
2) Each of you will deposit 50% of your take-home pay into a joint account. That will cover rent, groceries and other fixed bills. Your child's share of that is covered by your including the money from its father into the pot. Your cellphone, his cellphone and personal fixed expenses are not covered; this pot is solely stuff you pay together.
3) The remaking 50% of each person's money can be spent as they see fit---personal phones or bills, eating out not done together, personal expenses of your child etc.
It is important for you to crunch these numbers. If 50% of your combined take home is not enough to cover your joint expenses, then your home is too rich for your blood and you need to find cheaper accommodation. If he is also not willing to put that much into a joint life with you then he is too selfish to be in this relationship---remember, he would still have 50% to spend as he pleased!
posted by JoannaC at 1:54 PM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
I told him in our most recent fight that we should have a contract, at least that way I could take him to small claims court when he didn't pay what he agreed but I really, really don't want that as that would be stupid.
I know you said this was a stupid idea, but I'm going to unpack it:
You mean take him to court after you guys break up, right? Say he signs the contract today. If he doesn't pay next month you're going to break up with him and then take him to court? And if you'd had the contract from the beginning you would have broken up and taken him to court sooner? So the only reason you haven't broken up with him is because you don't have that contract? Because otherwise, what's the point of even having a contract if you're not going to enforce it..."this time." (Not to mention that you may not have standing in court if you had a contract and didn't enforce it.)
I would look to jenfullmoon's answer, because I don't think this is really about money, I think it's about deciding to stay with him or not.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:14 PM on June 16, 2013
I know you said this was a stupid idea, but I'm going to unpack it:
You mean take him to court after you guys break up, right? Say he signs the contract today. If he doesn't pay next month you're going to break up with him and then take him to court? And if you'd had the contract from the beginning you would have broken up and taken him to court sooner? So the only reason you haven't broken up with him is because you don't have that contract? Because otherwise, what's the point of even having a contract if you're not going to enforce it..."this time." (Not to mention that you may not have standing in court if you had a contract and didn't enforce it.)
I would look to jenfullmoon's answer, because I don't think this is really about money, I think it's about deciding to stay with him or not.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:14 PM on June 16, 2013
If you go with Joanne C's suggestion, his income should include the rent he receives. Although the more I think about it I think you should see professionals like lawyers and financial advisors. You have a complicated enough situation that you should really think about what your future together financially would look like.
posted by saucysault at 3:05 PM on June 16, 2013
posted by saucysault at 3:05 PM on June 16, 2013
You say he doesn't pay anything towards your living expenses or the expenses of your child, but why should he? [and similar from other contributors]
Because the OP has clear beliefs about being in a "partnership," and, significantly, "family." "We decided, as a family..."
posted by kmennie at 3:39 PM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Because the OP has clear beliefs about being in a "partnership," and, significantly, "family." "We decided, as a family..."
posted by kmennie at 3:39 PM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
he's probably not going to change. from what i've observed the way one's family of origin handled money issues tends to stick with a person, even when their own financial situation changes. meaning, if he used to be tight with money because of low finances he may well still be tight when he has money. personally, i find it to be beyond the pale that he said he'd help with childcare and then completely broke that promise. while i am not one to say this on the green i'd DTMFA. you could go see a therapist or financial counselor together, but i think what will happen is your bf will again agree to all sorts of things and then not follow through on them.
posted by wildflower at 5:06 PM on June 16, 2013
posted by wildflower at 5:06 PM on June 16, 2013
Let me understand you better.
You and your partner have been together for the life of your child and he was, in fact, in the delivery room when your child was born. So, you were pregnant with someone else's child when you two met? Or you got pregnant with someone else while you were dating your partner, and your partner agreed to help you raise this other person's baby? Did you get with your partner while you were partnered with someone else, with whom you got pregnant? How old is your child now? Is your child still an infant, or are they a toddler? Are they four? Five? I'm trying to get a sense of how long you all have been in this relationship, who you were to one another before the birth of your child, and who you are to one another now. I think all of this is relevant to what he does or does not owe you, at least in his mind.
Okay, so, he went through childbirth with you, you and your baby then moved into his flat, and he said he would help you pay for the care of your child. He basically said, "I own a place. Come live with me with the baby, and, because I don't pay rent because I own my apartment, I can help you pay for childcare." He's reneged on that, and so now you and your child's father are responsible for paying for the childcare for your child. Yours, as in the child the two of you made.
You then determined that the flat your partner owned outright (paid no rent on, is that correct?) was too small for you, him and your child, and you all moved into a house, with the understanding that he would rent out his flat and take that rent money and give it to you to for a portion of the rent on the new house. But his flat needed work before you could rent it out, so he owed some money for that (he put it on credit?), and then told you that he didn't have any money for your rent because he was paying off credit card debt.
Why didn't you have to worry about money until you moved in with him? Did you live with your parents? Did the father of your child support both of you? Or is it that childcare is sucking up all of your income? I don't understand.
I'm really confused here.
It's hard to say what to do here because I think that you're not being completely honest with us here, and perhaps not entirely honest with yourself.
But, I will say that one thing is very clear, given what you've said - I think you need to move out of this house and find a smaller apartment that you all can afford. I think you're used to a standard of living you can't afford now and you need to suck that up. This is, of course, assuming you stay together which, I'm sorry to say, I don't think you should, because there's some bad will between the two of you, and that is extremely, extremely hard to excise from a relationship under the best, least pressure-filled circumstances. These are not that kind of circumstances. Also, there's a kid in the picture.
Now, because you're not going to break up because you do love one another, nobody's perfect, growth is hard, and there is a kid in the picture who is, naturally, your first priority, I think he should pay you half the rent on a new, reasonable apartment, and I think you should get a legal agreement to that effect in writing. I think you and the child's father are responsible for things like support and childcare expenses, and I think your boyfriend's shouldering any of that burden is not guaranteed in any sense whatsoever because you are not married and he is not the legal guardian of your child. He doesn't seem to want to help you pay for those things and, honestly, it says a lot to me about his feelings for you and this child that he is not willing to do so. This doesn't make him a bad person, by the way. It makes him someone who is ambivalent about assuming financial responsibility, in any way, for a baby he didn't make. Profligate spending habits or not, that's the 800 lb gorilla in the room.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 5:58 PM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
You and your partner have been together for the life of your child and he was, in fact, in the delivery room when your child was born. So, you were pregnant with someone else's child when you two met? Or you got pregnant with someone else while you were dating your partner, and your partner agreed to help you raise this other person's baby? Did you get with your partner while you were partnered with someone else, with whom you got pregnant? How old is your child now? Is your child still an infant, or are they a toddler? Are they four? Five? I'm trying to get a sense of how long you all have been in this relationship, who you were to one another before the birth of your child, and who you are to one another now. I think all of this is relevant to what he does or does not owe you, at least in his mind.
Okay, so, he went through childbirth with you, you and your baby then moved into his flat, and he said he would help you pay for the care of your child. He basically said, "I own a place. Come live with me with the baby, and, because I don't pay rent because I own my apartment, I can help you pay for childcare." He's reneged on that, and so now you and your child's father are responsible for paying for the childcare for your child. Yours, as in the child the two of you made.
You then determined that the flat your partner owned outright (paid no rent on, is that correct?) was too small for you, him and your child, and you all moved into a house, with the understanding that he would rent out his flat and take that rent money and give it to you to for a portion of the rent on the new house. But his flat needed work before you could rent it out, so he owed some money for that (he put it on credit?), and then told you that he didn't have any money for your rent because he was paying off credit card debt.
Why didn't you have to worry about money until you moved in with him? Did you live with your parents? Did the father of your child support both of you? Or is it that childcare is sucking up all of your income? I don't understand.
I'm really confused here.
It's hard to say what to do here because I think that you're not being completely honest with us here, and perhaps not entirely honest with yourself.
But, I will say that one thing is very clear, given what you've said - I think you need to move out of this house and find a smaller apartment that you all can afford. I think you're used to a standard of living you can't afford now and you need to suck that up. This is, of course, assuming you stay together which, I'm sorry to say, I don't think you should, because there's some bad will between the two of you, and that is extremely, extremely hard to excise from a relationship under the best, least pressure-filled circumstances. These are not that kind of circumstances. Also, there's a kid in the picture.
Now, because you're not going to break up because you do love one another, nobody's perfect, growth is hard, and there is a kid in the picture who is, naturally, your first priority, I think he should pay you half the rent on a new, reasonable apartment, and I think you should get a legal agreement to that effect in writing. I think you and the child's father are responsible for things like support and childcare expenses, and I think your boyfriend's shouldering any of that burden is not guaranteed in any sense whatsoever because you are not married and he is not the legal guardian of your child. He doesn't seem to want to help you pay for those things and, honestly, it says a lot to me about his feelings for you and this child that he is not willing to do so. This doesn't make him a bad person, by the way. It makes him someone who is ambivalent about assuming financial responsibility, in any way, for a baby he didn't make. Profligate spending habits or not, that's the 800 lb gorilla in the room.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 5:58 PM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
For context:
We live together, since July last year. I have a child from another relationship but my partner and I have been together my child's life
So, you and your partner have been living together for less than a year, and I'm guessing you and your partner have been together between one and two years?
I'll second what other people have asked: what's the actual and potential income disparity between you and your partner? (potential as in, if you're a highly paid techie but on maternity leave, what would you be making relative to your partner if you were not on leave?)
This doesn't change anything your partner has agreed to (and not done) but it would provide context as to whether what you're asking for is reasonable. When there's a big income disparity, a 50/50 split is actually unfair to the lesser-paid partner.
posted by zippy at 6:18 PM on June 16, 2013
We live together, since July last year. I have a child from another relationship but my partner and I have been together my child's life
So, you and your partner have been living together for less than a year, and I'm guessing you and your partner have been together between one and two years?
I'll second what other people have asked: what's the actual and potential income disparity between you and your partner? (potential as in, if you're a highly paid techie but on maternity leave, what would you be making relative to your partner if you were not on leave?)
This doesn't change anything your partner has agreed to (and not done) but it would provide context as to whether what you're asking for is reasonable. When there's a big income disparity, a 50/50 split is actually unfair to the lesser-paid partner.
posted by zippy at 6:18 PM on June 16, 2013
I'm utterly against the austerity minded people who seem to think that you have some unrealistic bougie standard of living expectations here.
You two made an agreement that he would rent the place and use that to subsidize the rent on a larger shared space. Presumably, his contribution would make this a reasonable and affordable living situation when taking in to account both of your expenses, right?
I'm completely willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this, because i've been in multiple living situations that turned out this way. You sign all the paperwork to move in to a place, and then a person, or worse the only other person flakes when it comes time to cough up the money.
What other people saying "tough shit, move out you have unrealistic expectations of where you can afford to live" or more reasonably, "this guy is never going to pay up. Find a place you can afford to rent on your own ASAP" don't realize is that you might be tied in to a lease/rental contract that has a really high cost for breaking the lease early. This can be thousands of fucking dollars/pounds/euros/etc.
This guy sounds like a tiresome flake, and almost this exact same situation(minus the kid) happened with my moms ex husband before i was born. The supporting evidence of him consistently acting weird and cheap like this(and i agree with your assessment, this isn't just being an asshole. It's being cheap in a selfish way. Cheapness doesn't = saving money, refusing to spend it and then spending in bizarre selfish ways is cheapness too) really paints a super negative picture of him.
The other thing i disagree with is whats above about some unequal split going on. You're both employed, correct? How much of his share of the rent on your new place does the rent he's now collecting from his old place cover? 100%? 75%? Because if he's getting that and has other income, even if his other income is less than yours he's getting a sweet deal here. His rent is either massively subsidized or free and he's managing to pull off mooching complete living expenses off of you for the new place.
As i said, i don't really buy that you over-reached on what you could afford for a house. Landlords won't even really let you do that anymore with income verifications and what not(In fact, the rules are so strict in most places now IE new yorks 40x rent income rules, and my current places monthly income must be 3x the rent rule). You made the totally reasonable assumption that he would do what he said he would, and contribute to the rent. Now he's not, and you can't afford the place on your own. That isn't weird, most couples nowadays are splitting a place they couldn't afford alone.
Focus on the fact that he refuses to contribute, and ignore the "you can't have an iphone if you're poor" types unless you are actually renting some expensive mansion.
Another thing to consider, is if you're in a relationship with someone that you would have to sue to get to stand up to their word(And as a callback to a previous statement, my moms ex husband drifted in to that territory)... what is that person even worth? life is too short for that shit. If you're asking that question, it's time to ask the question "And why am i even with a person i'd have to ask that question about?"
posted by emptythought at 6:57 PM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
You two made an agreement that he would rent the place and use that to subsidize the rent on a larger shared space. Presumably, his contribution would make this a reasonable and affordable living situation when taking in to account both of your expenses, right?
I'm completely willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this, because i've been in multiple living situations that turned out this way. You sign all the paperwork to move in to a place, and then a person, or worse the only other person flakes when it comes time to cough up the money.
What other people saying "tough shit, move out you have unrealistic expectations of where you can afford to live" or more reasonably, "this guy is never going to pay up. Find a place you can afford to rent on your own ASAP" don't realize is that you might be tied in to a lease/rental contract that has a really high cost for breaking the lease early. This can be thousands of fucking dollars/pounds/euros/etc.
This guy sounds like a tiresome flake, and almost this exact same situation(minus the kid) happened with my moms ex husband before i was born. The supporting evidence of him consistently acting weird and cheap like this(and i agree with your assessment, this isn't just being an asshole. It's being cheap in a selfish way. Cheapness doesn't = saving money, refusing to spend it and then spending in bizarre selfish ways is cheapness too) really paints a super negative picture of him.
The other thing i disagree with is whats above about some unequal split going on. You're both employed, correct? How much of his share of the rent on your new place does the rent he's now collecting from his old place cover? 100%? 75%? Because if he's getting that and has other income, even if his other income is less than yours he's getting a sweet deal here. His rent is either massively subsidized or free and he's managing to pull off mooching complete living expenses off of you for the new place.
As i said, i don't really buy that you over-reached on what you could afford for a house. Landlords won't even really let you do that anymore with income verifications and what not(In fact, the rules are so strict in most places now IE new yorks 40x rent income rules, and my current places monthly income must be 3x the rent rule). You made the totally reasonable assumption that he would do what he said he would, and contribute to the rent. Now he's not, and you can't afford the place on your own. That isn't weird, most couples nowadays are splitting a place they couldn't afford alone.
Focus on the fact that he refuses to contribute, and ignore the "you can't have an iphone if you're poor" types unless you are actually renting some expensive mansion.
Another thing to consider, is if you're in a relationship with someone that you would have to sue to get to stand up to their word(And as a callback to a previous statement, my moms ex husband drifted in to that territory)... what is that person even worth? life is too short for that shit. If you're asking that question, it's time to ask the question "And why am i even with a person i'd have to ask that question about?"
posted by emptythought at 6:57 PM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
The OP's question:
Can you help give me some perspective? Am I totally out of line expecting him to live up to his agreements?
one person's response:
I agree that for me his entitled attitude would be a deal-breaker. Personally, I am over and done with enabling man-children. As a grown-ass woman, I want a grown-ass man.(emphasis mine)
i think that attitude, especially the bolded part, may not be helpful, and I'd suggesting a little more nuance.
I'm initially sympathetic to you, you being a mother with a young baby. however, it is not his baby. can you afford to live on what you make plus child care payments from the baby's biological father? If not, then you need to either try to get more money from the baby's biological father or adjust your spending.
But, it seems like you're asking your partner to subsidies a baby that is not his, and this is where the "man-children" and "grown-ass woman" comments steer you wrong. A "grown-ass woman" should be able (in my opinion, obviously) to support herself, adjusting for the support of the father(s) of her children. Feeling entitled to being subsidized by your partner who is not the father of your child does not sound like a quality of a "grown-ass woman," and feeling resentment for subsidizing someone else's child (a child who has a father who is making child support payment) does not necessarily make someone a "man-child."
if it's a deal breaker or not is up to you. i could imagine reasonable people coming to different conclusions. you need to find a compromise between the two of you, and no one can really say what the right answer is. if he was the one with a child from another person, would you be OK with supporting his child? is he open to adopting your child, to be legally on the hook for him? if he's not ready yet, then you have his answer for now. he's not willing to pay more than his part on shared expenses, and it's up to you to decide if you can accept that or not.
...
have you considered thinking about it in terms of allocating expenses on a proportion of income basis? For example, you have some expenses that you identify as shared expenses, and you each pay an equal proportion of your after-tax income on these expenses. If you make more money it would mean you are paying more in an absolute sense, but relative to your income you are paying the same amount. the trade off is that, since you make more money, you have more money, in an absolute sense, to spend on whatever you want. The critical test is: do you have enough to support you and your child in this scenario? If so, it could bridge the gap for both of you by re-defining what "fair" means.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:43 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Can you help give me some perspective? Am I totally out of line expecting him to live up to his agreements?
one person's response:
I agree that for me his entitled attitude would be a deal-breaker. Personally, I am over and done with enabling man-children. As a grown-ass woman, I want a grown-ass man.(emphasis mine)
i think that attitude, especially the bolded part, may not be helpful, and I'd suggesting a little more nuance.
I'm initially sympathetic to you, you being a mother with a young baby. however, it is not his baby. can you afford to live on what you make plus child care payments from the baby's biological father? If not, then you need to either try to get more money from the baby's biological father or adjust your spending.
But, it seems like you're asking your partner to subsidies a baby that is not his, and this is where the "man-children" and "grown-ass woman" comments steer you wrong. A "grown-ass woman" should be able (in my opinion, obviously) to support herself, adjusting for the support of the father(s) of her children. Feeling entitled to being subsidized by your partner who is not the father of your child does not sound like a quality of a "grown-ass woman," and feeling resentment for subsidizing someone else's child (a child who has a father who is making child support payment) does not necessarily make someone a "man-child."
if it's a deal breaker or not is up to you. i could imagine reasonable people coming to different conclusions. you need to find a compromise between the two of you, and no one can really say what the right answer is. if he was the one with a child from another person, would you be OK with supporting his child? is he open to adopting your child, to be legally on the hook for him? if he's not ready yet, then you have his answer for now. he's not willing to pay more than his part on shared expenses, and it's up to you to decide if you can accept that or not.
...
have you considered thinking about it in terms of allocating expenses on a proportion of income basis? For example, you have some expenses that you identify as shared expenses, and you each pay an equal proportion of your after-tax income on these expenses. If you make more money it would mean you are paying more in an absolute sense, but relative to your income you are paying the same amount. the trade off is that, since you make more money, you have more money, in an absolute sense, to spend on whatever you want. The critical test is: do you have enough to support you and your child in this scenario? If so, it could bridge the gap for both of you by re-defining what "fair" means.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:43 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I really, really can't afford to pay childcare and rent in this house, which I have told him repeatedly.
This is the main problem. And it's your problem, because you took on a financial responsibility that you can't handle on your own. Even though he promised to help, you made a poor decision, because you made yourself vulnerable while knowing that couples break up, people lose jobs, and people don't always do what they promised to do.
I'm also wondering if his promises to help were really in earnest, or were exactly as you interpreted them, because they seem to go well beyond what I'd expect from a partner.
For example, I got the understanding that he was supposed to take the rent from his flat and apply it to pay the rent on your shared house, and then you'd pay (some portion of?) the remainder. I'm assuming the rental income from his flat would be a non-trivial amount of money. Normally it would be his income alone, since it's his flat. But if I understand you correctly, you expect him / he said he would apply all of this income to pay what might be a lot more rent than you're paying.
The fact that he inherited the flat rather than earning it is irrelevant. I'm wondering if subconsciously you're thinking that the money came to him easily, so he shouldn't hesitate to share it with you. If that's going on in your head, you might turn it around and tell yourself that you're currently paid more than he is because you were born into a different class, and it wasn't really anything you did. That kind of thinking is extremely unhelpful from either perspective. His property is his property and I think you're asking for unhappiness by expecting him to share it disproportionately with you.
posted by ceiba at 10:32 PM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is the main problem. And it's your problem, because you took on a financial responsibility that you can't handle on your own. Even though he promised to help, you made a poor decision, because you made yourself vulnerable while knowing that couples break up, people lose jobs, and people don't always do what they promised to do.
I'm also wondering if his promises to help were really in earnest, or were exactly as you interpreted them, because they seem to go well beyond what I'd expect from a partner.
For example, I got the understanding that he was supposed to take the rent from his flat and apply it to pay the rent on your shared house, and then you'd pay (some portion of?) the remainder. I'm assuming the rental income from his flat would be a non-trivial amount of money. Normally it would be his income alone, since it's his flat. But if I understand you correctly, you expect him / he said he would apply all of this income to pay what might be a lot more rent than you're paying.
The fact that he inherited the flat rather than earning it is irrelevant. I'm wondering if subconsciously you're thinking that the money came to him easily, so he shouldn't hesitate to share it with you. If that's going on in your head, you might turn it around and tell yourself that you're currently paid more than he is because you were born into a different class, and it wasn't really anything you did. That kind of thinking is extremely unhelpful from either perspective. His property is his property and I think you're asking for unhappiness by expecting him to share it disproportionately with you.
posted by ceiba at 10:32 PM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hmmm...I don't understand. Are you suggesting he throw the rent he receives from his flat into, "the pot" and you both then pay half each of the remainder of the rent on your mutual accommodation? And you additionally expect him to pay half of your out-of-pocket childcare expenses despite the fact he is not your child's biological father and you too earn a significantly higher income than him?
If this is the case, he was a fool to agree to any of this in the first instance - it's completely unreasonable.
posted by Nibiru at 2:05 AM on June 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
If this is the case, he was a fool to agree to any of this in the first instance - it's completely unreasonable.
posted by Nibiru at 2:05 AM on June 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I think in some ways this is a bit of a missing dollar riddle, plus problems of communication and perception, no doubt.
One way to look at it would be that he was subsidizing 100% of your rent costs during the time that you lived together in his flat. If he had not owned it, and you were living together in a rented place, I assume you would have split the rent – or if you did not live together, you would have been fully paying your own rent. So if you lived together in the flat from July to the end of March, for example, and you would normally be paying £800 for rent, that would be £7200 that you saved (just throwing some numbers out entirely at random).
I guess I would also say that, given this, that it makes sense that perhaps he feels that he should not be responsible for paying for all the repairs to the flat so that it could be rented out, so that that all that rental income could be rolled into the new place. So leaving aside, just for a moment, promises made, viewing it this way maybe casts a bit of a different light on the situation, and perhaps he's looking at that and feeling that things are not adding up so equitably and possibly making some "passive-aggressive" adjustments while not feeling brave enough to address the issue head-on.
My heartfelt observation and advice would be this: in every relationship, each partner has some flaws that most likely will not change and must simply be managed as well as possible to maintain reasonable happiness as a couple. Identifying what sorts of things are dealbreakers on each side, and of the remaining issues, what sorts of things are unlikely to change, and finding ways to compromise or work around those problems are integral to forming a satisfying combined life. If you love this guy and feel like things are great otherwise, you should spend some time working out how to sort the problem of a) differing expectations about managing the shared finances, and b) the likelihood that he is unwilling to express his point of view or reasoning on some things.
If the money problem is one of those things that is not a dealbreaker, then it must be managed as well as possible, and you might do that by approaching with a clean slate in terms of promises and expectations and try to come up with a clear and fair evaluation of what each of you should contribute. This may require some outside help to determine what the actual costs and liabilities are. For example, the boyfriend is also responsible for upkeep on the flat; how does this enter into the picture? On the one hand, it means extra money out in order to maintain the place that provides the income that has been dedicated to paying X% of your present rent. On the other hand, the flat remains his asset if you two ever break up. So! It can get confusing, and perhaps getting the help of a professional to help you two work out a reasonable agreement might be both very useful, and also take the pressure off on both sides in terms of formulating and arguing how things should be split.
You also want to consider his unwillingness to have a frank discussion about this. Is it only about money-related matters? That's going to be a bit easier to navigate than someone who won't discuss any disagreements. If there was a lot of money-related stress and fighting in his family growing up, he may feel anxiety both about financial commitments and discussing those commitments. A different sort of professional can help with him with these sorts of communication issues, if he's willing, or maybe some joint sessions for problem spots.
The idea of breaking promises is also a very big issue, and what I would wonder about that is if he is making promises that he later regrets, or if he is making promises the terms of which he feels are changed by later developments, or if he feels pressured into promising some things, or if you two have different views of what constitutes a promise, or if he's just flaky about any agreements. It's very difficult to try to assess that unemotionally, but if he only breaks promises about certain things, try to evaluate what those things have in common. It may be as simple as just being tight, or it may have to do with agreeing in haste and reconsidering at leisure, a general unwillingness to say "no," a different perception of what has been agreed to, etc.
Good luck with this; I hope you two can untangle it all and work it out in a way that reduces stress all around!
posted by taz at 2:07 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
One way to look at it would be that he was subsidizing 100% of your rent costs during the time that you lived together in his flat. If he had not owned it, and you were living together in a rented place, I assume you would have split the rent – or if you did not live together, you would have been fully paying your own rent. So if you lived together in the flat from July to the end of March, for example, and you would normally be paying £800 for rent, that would be £7200 that you saved (just throwing some numbers out entirely at random).
I guess I would also say that, given this, that it makes sense that perhaps he feels that he should not be responsible for paying for all the repairs to the flat so that it could be rented out, so that that all that rental income could be rolled into the new place. So leaving aside, just for a moment, promises made, viewing it this way maybe casts a bit of a different light on the situation, and perhaps he's looking at that and feeling that things are not adding up so equitably and possibly making some "passive-aggressive" adjustments while not feeling brave enough to address the issue head-on.
My heartfelt observation and advice would be this: in every relationship, each partner has some flaws that most likely will not change and must simply be managed as well as possible to maintain reasonable happiness as a couple. Identifying what sorts of things are dealbreakers on each side, and of the remaining issues, what sorts of things are unlikely to change, and finding ways to compromise or work around those problems are integral to forming a satisfying combined life. If you love this guy and feel like things are great otherwise, you should spend some time working out how to sort the problem of a) differing expectations about managing the shared finances, and b) the likelihood that he is unwilling to express his point of view or reasoning on some things.
If the money problem is one of those things that is not a dealbreaker, then it must be managed as well as possible, and you might do that by approaching with a clean slate in terms of promises and expectations and try to come up with a clear and fair evaluation of what each of you should contribute. This may require some outside help to determine what the actual costs and liabilities are. For example, the boyfriend is also responsible for upkeep on the flat; how does this enter into the picture? On the one hand, it means extra money out in order to maintain the place that provides the income that has been dedicated to paying X% of your present rent. On the other hand, the flat remains his asset if you two ever break up. So! It can get confusing, and perhaps getting the help of a professional to help you two work out a reasonable agreement might be both very useful, and also take the pressure off on both sides in terms of formulating and arguing how things should be split.
You also want to consider his unwillingness to have a frank discussion about this. Is it only about money-related matters? That's going to be a bit easier to navigate than someone who won't discuss any disagreements. If there was a lot of money-related stress and fighting in his family growing up, he may feel anxiety both about financial commitments and discussing those commitments. A different sort of professional can help with him with these sorts of communication issues, if he's willing, or maybe some joint sessions for problem spots.
The idea of breaking promises is also a very big issue, and what I would wonder about that is if he is making promises that he later regrets, or if he is making promises the terms of which he feels are changed by later developments, or if he feels pressured into promising some things, or if you two have different views of what constitutes a promise, or if he's just flaky about any agreements. It's very difficult to try to assess that unemotionally, but if he only breaks promises about certain things, try to evaluate what those things have in common. It may be as simple as just being tight, or it may have to do with agreeing in haste and reconsidering at leisure, a general unwillingness to say "no," a different perception of what has been agreed to, etc.
Good luck with this; I hope you two can untangle it all and work it out in a way that reduces stress all around!
posted by taz at 2:07 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
You then determined that the flat your partner owned outright (paid no rent on, is that correct?)
I read the question that the inheritance helped buy the flat, not that it was necessarily owned outright. There could be a mortgage involved. The UK property market is not like the US for the most part - a deposit needed to get a mortgage is often 30% of the value of the property, and if you live in an area with high property values, you can easily earn more than enough to afford a mortgage but have no way of saving up £30k or so for the deposit. I'm 31 and anyone I know my age who has bought has only managed to do so through parental loans or inheritance.
As i said, i don't really buy that you over-reached on what you could afford for a house. Landlords won't even really let you do that anymore with income verifications and what not(In fact, the rules are so strict in most places now IE new yorks 40x rent income rules, and my current places monthly income must be 3x the rent rule).
It's not really the case here. Landlords do run credit checks, but it is a landlord's market in many places purely because so few can afford to secure a mortgage. We rented a flat recently for the first time, and when we were looking round we realised what letting agencies demand - six weeks' deposit is standard, fees can cost around £250 to move in and £100 just to renew your lease, and agencies insist that properties are professionally cleaned on departure and then charge you a 'check-out' fee to actually leave the flat, hand over the keys and check the inventory. Some even insist on a guarantor - I know one couple in their late 20s who earned £37k between them who were asked to provide one to rent a flat. So the OP may be in a situation where she can;t afford to move as she doesn't have £1500 or so for a deposit and £1000 or so for the first month's advance rent in hand. It's also entirely possible for many for the costs of rent, travel and childcare alone to leave people with very, very little money left over at the end of the month.
OP, it might be worth you looking at the Relationships or Money boards on a site like Mumsnet or Netmums - there will be many there who have moved in with new partners and have to juggle childcare costs and negotiating finances, and they may have more specific advice.
posted by mippy at 7:11 AM on June 17, 2013
I read the question that the inheritance helped buy the flat, not that it was necessarily owned outright. There could be a mortgage involved. The UK property market is not like the US for the most part - a deposit needed to get a mortgage is often 30% of the value of the property, and if you live in an area with high property values, you can easily earn more than enough to afford a mortgage but have no way of saving up £30k or so for the deposit. I'm 31 and anyone I know my age who has bought has only managed to do so through parental loans or inheritance.
As i said, i don't really buy that you over-reached on what you could afford for a house. Landlords won't even really let you do that anymore with income verifications and what not(In fact, the rules are so strict in most places now IE new yorks 40x rent income rules, and my current places monthly income must be 3x the rent rule).
It's not really the case here. Landlords do run credit checks, but it is a landlord's market in many places purely because so few can afford to secure a mortgage. We rented a flat recently for the first time, and when we were looking round we realised what letting agencies demand - six weeks' deposit is standard, fees can cost around £250 to move in and £100 just to renew your lease, and agencies insist that properties are professionally cleaned on departure and then charge you a 'check-out' fee to actually leave the flat, hand over the keys and check the inventory. Some even insist on a guarantor - I know one couple in their late 20s who earned £37k between them who were asked to provide one to rent a flat. So the OP may be in a situation where she can;t afford to move as she doesn't have £1500 or so for a deposit and £1000 or so for the first month's advance rent in hand. It's also entirely possible for many for the costs of rent, travel and childcare alone to leave people with very, very little money left over at the end of the month.
OP, it might be worth you looking at the Relationships or Money boards on a site like Mumsnet or Netmums - there will be many there who have moved in with new partners and have to juggle childcare costs and negotiating finances, and they may have more specific advice.
posted by mippy at 7:11 AM on June 17, 2013
Another thing I thought of is - your BF seems to say things to make you happy. Pay more attention to his actions than his words, because that's how he really communicates.
posted by theora55 at 9:27 AM on June 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 9:27 AM on June 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
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