Pedantically Yours
June 16, 2013 7:24 AM Subscribe
I am pedantic (of the "ostentatious with learning" variety). Please make it stop.
In the interest of NOT being pedantic, I will attempt to make this short. When I talk about ideas (my research or other things that are somewhat difficult or complicated), I tend to overexplain and then also to slip into "professor" mode. I have been told that I seem to disconnect from the people I'm actually talking to and generally sound like an ass/Cliff Claven. I will likely be on the job market in the next 2-3 years and I want to get this under control before then.
No surprise, I have taught college for ten years and both my parents are professors. My dad does the same thing and it is as annoying as all hell. I don't think I do this in class, as it's never been noted on my evaluations or when I've been observed. I just seem to do it when I'm trying to express an idea that is important to me that I'm insecure about or when I feel I might get challenged about something that I have a strong opinion about. This takes the form of not making eye contact, being bombastic, sounding argumentative or defensive, not listening to others, overexplaining, and talking way too much.
Yes, I suffer from self-esteem and confidence issues. To combat those, I am often defensive or angry (inappropriately so) when I think I'm being questioned or ignored. Yes, I have been to therapy and I have worked on lots of those issues -- now I want to make an effort to really connect and be confident with my ideas and not sound like I'm ready to punch someone or like Dr. Stuffypants McTalkerson.
TL;DR. Please help me nip my ostentatious talking in the bud.
In the interest of NOT being pedantic, I will attempt to make this short. When I talk about ideas (my research or other things that are somewhat difficult or complicated), I tend to overexplain and then also to slip into "professor" mode. I have been told that I seem to disconnect from the people I'm actually talking to and generally sound like an ass/Cliff Claven. I will likely be on the job market in the next 2-3 years and I want to get this under control before then.
No surprise, I have taught college for ten years and both my parents are professors. My dad does the same thing and it is as annoying as all hell. I don't think I do this in class, as it's never been noted on my evaluations or when I've been observed. I just seem to do it when I'm trying to express an idea that is important to me that I'm insecure about or when I feel I might get challenged about something that I have a strong opinion about. This takes the form of not making eye contact, being bombastic, sounding argumentative or defensive, not listening to others, overexplaining, and talking way too much.
Yes, I suffer from self-esteem and confidence issues. To combat those, I am often defensive or angry (inappropriately so) when I think I'm being questioned or ignored. Yes, I have been to therapy and I have worked on lots of those issues -- now I want to make an effort to really connect and be confident with my ideas and not sound like I'm ready to punch someone or like Dr. Stuffypants McTalkerson.
TL;DR. Please help me nip my ostentatious talking in the bud.
View it as a challenge: What's the minimum I can say to keep the conversation sustained?
posted by argybarg at 7:38 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 7:38 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Force yourself to keep making eye contact. If you do this you'll keep remembering that you're talking *to* someone and not *at* them.
posted by jasper411 at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by jasper411 at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
How big is your house? Set up a Pedant's Corner. Two chairs, a book and pen. When you really want to be a pedant, you can go there and be a pedant. You could set up a little Pedant's Corner travel kit to take to conferences and out-of-town things. If you can't get away in the next five minutes from your conversation you make a note of what caused the irritation and you can write about it or express it when you get home or back to wherever you are staying.
You could also start asking for feedback from people in the industries you would want to work in about your personality and its suitability for a job at the level you prefer to be on. This could be a great way to meet recruiters.
posted by parmanparman at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2013
You could also start asking for feedback from people in the industries you would want to work in about your personality and its suitability for a job at the level you prefer to be on. This could be a great way to meet recruiters.
posted by parmanparman at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2013
I think the answer is just...practice? Find people, both fellow grad students and not, who are willing to be patient with you as you practice talking about your research, and who will call you out when you slip into your bad habits. It's hard for PhD students to talk about their research - I don't think you need to beat yourself up about it. Practice delivering a pretty polished "intro" and then practice listening to their questions and letting them lead the conversation. You'll slowly get better at talking about your research; as you get more comfortable, you'll be less likely to get insecure and aggressive.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I use a paddle and drift approach.
I'll explain a little of what I do, keeping it simple and under 2-4 sentences. My opening line is literally: "You've heard of the Human Genome Project?" I then shut up, grin, and make eye contact. If the other person asks questions or makes interested noises or expressions, then I'll offer a bit more. It lets me gauge interest and how much they already know about the area so I'm not talking down or too high up.
Rinse and repeat. The pause is the important part. It's an opening that's both an escape exit and invitation to more. It also makes you feel more open.
posted by Mercaptan at 7:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
I'll explain a little of what I do, keeping it simple and under 2-4 sentences. My opening line is literally: "You've heard of the Human Genome Project?" I then shut up, grin, and make eye contact. If the other person asks questions or makes interested noises or expressions, then I'll offer a bit more. It lets me gauge interest and how much they already know about the area so I'm not talking down or too high up.
Rinse and repeat. The pause is the important part. It's an opening that's both an escape exit and invitation to more. It also makes you feel more open.
posted by Mercaptan at 7:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
Humor. Especially of the self-deprecating kind. My husband has taught me that if you take yourself and everyone else a little less seriously, the painful, awkward, uncomfortable parts of life become less so. If you notice you are becoming a pedantic jerk in the course of a conversation, change course and make a joke, and if you can poke a little fun at yourself, so much the better.
posted by bananafish at 8:04 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by bananafish at 8:04 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Outside of your qualifying exams, your job is to be able to explain your research in a simple, accessible manner that can be summed up in a couple of sentences and understood by anyone who is not in your field. Anything else is only of interest to your thesis committee and fellow collaborators.
So, what you need to do is come up with that "elevator pitch" summary of your work, remember it, and use it when someone asks what you do. And then stop and wait to hear their response.
It also helps if you can learn to be a bit... submissive? Like if you're talking to a guy who immediately decides that he knows everything about what you do and expounds at length and loudly about what he thinks, when it's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about, don't try to seize the initiative back and "get into it" with him. Not, smile, and maybe say something like, "actually, they went down that path in the 1970s and it turned out it didn't work out at all," and leave it at that.
posted by deanc at 8:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
So, what you need to do is come up with that "elevator pitch" summary of your work, remember it, and use it when someone asks what you do. And then stop and wait to hear their response.
It also helps if you can learn to be a bit... submissive? Like if you're talking to a guy who immediately decides that he knows everything about what you do and expounds at length and loudly about what he thinks, when it's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about, don't try to seize the initiative back and "get into it" with him. Not, smile, and maybe say something like, "actually, they went down that path in the 1970s and it turned out it didn't work out at all," and leave it at that.
posted by deanc at 8:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
The reason why pedants are a drag is because conversations with them aren't mutual. What could be an interesting and engaging discussion for both parties becomes a lecture.
Please help me nip my ostentatious talking in the bud.
This may be part of your problem: perspective. Your conversations aren't bad because of a failure to stop talking. They're going poorly because you're not listening. Develop an elevator p.itch for your topics of interest, two or three sentences that makes it understandable to a layperson. If the person you are talking to wants to know more, let them ask. That's a conversation.
Also: don't assume that people aren't interested in what you are saying because of your level of education. Smart asses can be fine in conversational settings if you just know how to present yourself.
posted by Think_Long at 8:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Please help me nip my ostentatious talking in the bud.
This may be part of your problem: perspective. Your conversations aren't bad because of a failure to stop talking. They're going poorly because you're not listening. Develop an elevator p.itch for your topics of interest, two or three sentences that makes it understandable to a layperson. If the person you are talking to wants to know more, let them ask. That's a conversation.
Also: don't assume that people aren't interested in what you are saying because of your level of education. Smart asses can be fine in conversational settings if you just know how to present yourself.
posted by Think_Long at 8:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Let other people's level of interest in the topic be your guide.
I've had this problem too, and the way I try to combat it is exactly this. If someone asks you a question, or you want to explain something, give them a good sentence or paragraph overview. Your "elevator pitch" as the saying goes.
This does two things: it gives people an opportunity to ask questions if they want to know more, and it forces you to rethink, distill and condense your ideas.
Remember that a social conversation isn't meant to be a complete dissertation on the topic. You're just passing time and learning about each other.
The other thing is to try to meet people on their level and in the appropriate context. If I meet someone at a coffee shop and they ask me what I do for a living, I say "I fix computers". If I meet a new coworker and they ask the same thing, I'll say something more specific: "I am a senior engineer in the XYZ department." But when you are doing this, never over compensate for what you perceive to be someone's lack of knowledge on a topic. A lot of service professionals are notorious for this. In their attempt to not use jargon or overly technical language, they over correct and condescend to the people they are talking to. You should assume people not in your profession won't know your jargon or care about minutia, but you shouldn't assume they are complete idiots. Never start an explanation with an analogy.
posted by gjc at 8:22 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
I've had this problem too, and the way I try to combat it is exactly this. If someone asks you a question, or you want to explain something, give them a good sentence or paragraph overview. Your "elevator pitch" as the saying goes.
This does two things: it gives people an opportunity to ask questions if they want to know more, and it forces you to rethink, distill and condense your ideas.
Remember that a social conversation isn't meant to be a complete dissertation on the topic. You're just passing time and learning about each other.
The other thing is to try to meet people on their level and in the appropriate context. If I meet someone at a coffee shop and they ask me what I do for a living, I say "I fix computers". If I meet a new coworker and they ask the same thing, I'll say something more specific: "I am a senior engineer in the XYZ department." But when you are doing this, never over compensate for what you perceive to be someone's lack of knowledge on a topic. A lot of service professionals are notorious for this. In their attempt to not use jargon or overly technical language, they over correct and condescend to the people they are talking to. You should assume people not in your profession won't know your jargon or care about minutia, but you shouldn't assume they are complete idiots. Never start an explanation with an analogy.
posted by gjc at 8:22 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
You have to decide what it is you are aiming for- is it to have a conversation? Then sometimes even if you know wayyy more or the person is even in the wrong or whatever, sometimes you have to let it slide. And just say "really? I hadn't heard that before" or "Oh, I'll have to look into that, I thought it was more like this" or "well, I work in the field but I don't want to bore you with the details, haha". Etc. IF the purpose of the conversation is to make a pleasant connection, then that is your goal, not to be correct, or an expert or whatever.
Also, make sure you leave "gaps" for the other person. If you go off on a monologue it freaks people out and they can't even 1) change the subject 2) indicate what aspects of what you are talking about interest them in particular to further the conversation or 3) run away! (to allegedly 'refill their drink' etc).
Also, be careful of your assumptions, many people, especially here and probably in the circles you move in are also well-educated and from well-educated families. You are most likely not the smartest person in the room so get that under control STAT. (even if you are, you are here asking social questions so there is always something that someone knows better than you...keeps you humble!).
You really need to chill with the defensive or angry parts, again, it's about making connections through communications- it's not a battlefield, or at least it shouldn't be. Stick with the therapy. (I already lost the ability to 'keep this short' so will stop writing now!)
posted by bquarters at 8:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also, make sure you leave "gaps" for the other person. If you go off on a monologue it freaks people out and they can't even 1) change the subject 2) indicate what aspects of what you are talking about interest them in particular to further the conversation or 3) run away! (to allegedly 'refill their drink' etc).
Also, be careful of your assumptions, many people, especially here and probably in the circles you move in are also well-educated and from well-educated families. You are most likely not the smartest person in the room so get that under control STAT. (even if you are, you are here asking social questions so there is always something that someone knows better than you...keeps you humble!).
You really need to chill with the defensive or angry parts, again, it's about making connections through communications- it's not a battlefield, or at least it shouldn't be. Stick with the therapy. (I already lost the ability to 'keep this short' so will stop writing now!)
posted by bquarters at 8:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Some people are very reciprocal about geek interests and theories. It is a bit of if you let me show mine, I'll let you show yours. When I have and demonstrate an authentic interest in other people and their topics the chances increase that they'll be interested in me and mine.
Sometimes what I need to do is realize the subject isn't really going to be of interest to my listener. Pausing helps, so they can redirect me to a new subject or a portion of my topic that interests them.
Over explaining and defining can make people think you think they are stupid. If your terms are unfamiliar or have specialized meaning that can be where you lose them. Probing them as to their level of knowledge about your topic can make them feel like your testing them. So Mercaptan's post really makes a lot of sense.
If you can find workable pop culture analogies that might help.
posted by logonym at 8:33 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Sometimes what I need to do is realize the subject isn't really going to be of interest to my listener. Pausing helps, so they can redirect me to a new subject or a portion of my topic that interests them.
Over explaining and defining can make people think you think they are stupid. If your terms are unfamiliar or have specialized meaning that can be where you lose them. Probing them as to their level of knowledge about your topic can make them feel like your testing them. So Mercaptan's post really makes a lot of sense.
If you can find workable pop culture analogies that might help.
posted by logonym at 8:33 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Whenever I am going to be in a situation where I need to remember to shut-up, I tie my shoes extra tight. This is physically uncomfortable enough to remind me to keep quiet or to keep from making too many extemporaneous statements. Adding that consideration in critical situations has reduced my "Well, actually..." and "It's a little know fact..." statements in non-critical situations considerably.
posted by chiefthe at 8:35 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by chiefthe at 8:35 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't think this is a behavioral issue, rather I think at it's core it's a perception issue - how you perceive yourself and the world around you. I think what's important is to remember that the world would go on without you doing what you are doing, so be humble and realize that everyone contributes in different ways and your contribution is probably not a whole lot more important or significant than many other people's. We are each tiny pieces in a gigantic puzzle. Furthermore, just because you are academically smart doesn't mean you are smarter or better or more important than people who are smart and accomplished in other ways. If you stay in school your whole life (student then educator), you can end up less than fully aware and appreciative of the fact that there are a lot of smart people and happenings outside of universities. So one solution is to change the way you think about yourself and another is to get out of the university as much as possible and interact with other types of people and try to learn about and understand them.
posted by Dansaman at 8:58 AM on June 16, 2013
posted by Dansaman at 8:58 AM on June 16, 2013
There are a lot of great comments here. I will add this tip: I think back to some of the most outstanding, respected academics I had during my educations. The mentors who did not feel the need to prove themselves were especially extraordinary.
posted by effluvia at 8:58 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by effluvia at 8:58 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am blessed with friends who will say "I quit listening a while ago..." or "Shut up". One recently said "I'll have another beer. This sounds like it will be a while."
Compared to some people, I know a lot about a few things. Compared to others, virtually nothing.
Compared to how much there is to know, I know nothing. Not a measurable percentage. Neither did Einstein, Feynman, Euler, Gauss, Pasteur, Jesus, Buddha, Jefferson, Lincoln. We are all equally ignorant and score a solid zero (0.000) on the percentage of the human knowledge base, in itself a fraction of the actual amount to be known. That presumably includes you.
If it helps, remind yourself of how completely vacant you are in this regard. The other human-shaped planaria to whom you address yourself fare equally. We're all ignorant and it matters not if we have 10 PhDs. Dumb as sand. The pie is too big for anyone's mouth.
That's not to run down anyone. It's to keep our egos in perspective. I love reveling in it. Own it. Show it off. Make fun of it. Admit it. Stop halfway into the explanation and see what happens. Make up a fantasy. Ask your listener..... "I know more than many about this, but not that much... how much do you want to know or do you have a specific issue and how much time do you want to spend on it. Maybe over coffee some day?"
Be human. It's perfectly fine. Everyone else is. And no one really cares unless you bite or hit them. They'll shrug you off as another boring person. So what?
I'm willing to bet I'd find you fascinating OR I'd steer you toward something I was interested in. Good brains are wonderful. Content is great. Delivery varies widely.
posted by FauxScot at 9:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Compared to some people, I know a lot about a few things. Compared to others, virtually nothing.
Compared to how much there is to know, I know nothing. Not a measurable percentage. Neither did Einstein, Feynman, Euler, Gauss, Pasteur, Jesus, Buddha, Jefferson, Lincoln. We are all equally ignorant and score a solid zero (0.000) on the percentage of the human knowledge base, in itself a fraction of the actual amount to be known. That presumably includes you.
If it helps, remind yourself of how completely vacant you are in this regard. The other human-shaped planaria to whom you address yourself fare equally. We're all ignorant and it matters not if we have 10 PhDs. Dumb as sand. The pie is too big for anyone's mouth.
That's not to run down anyone. It's to keep our egos in perspective. I love reveling in it. Own it. Show it off. Make fun of it. Admit it. Stop halfway into the explanation and see what happens. Make up a fantasy. Ask your listener..... "I know more than many about this, but not that much... how much do you want to know or do you have a specific issue and how much time do you want to spend on it. Maybe over coffee some day?"
Be human. It's perfectly fine. Everyone else is. And no one really cares unless you bite or hit them. They'll shrug you off as another boring person. So what?
I'm willing to bet I'd find you fascinating OR I'd steer you toward something I was interested in. Good brains are wonderful. Content is great. Delivery varies widely.
posted by FauxScot at 9:05 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
It seems like the key is recognizing that the point of these conversation is not to show how much you know about the topic. You know a lot. That is not under dispute. Even if you feel insecure about some aspect of your knowledge, to the other person, you are an expert: you've been teaching this stuff for 10 years! (I'm assuming we're talking about a general cocktail party sort of setting, not a professional conference. But really, even at a professional conference, you probably know more about your particular specialty than most other professors in your discipline.)
The point is to have an exchange with another person. When someone asks you about your research or your field, your goal should be to help that particular person understand better what you do. That means you have to keep checking on the other person--how much do they know about the field? Did they understand what you last said? Are they familiar with the jargon? Are they still interested? Leave room for them to ask questions which will steer the direction of the conversation...or to change the subject. Make your mantra, "Leave 'em wanting more."
posted by pompelmo at 9:15 AM on June 16, 2013
The point is to have an exchange with another person. When someone asks you about your research or your field, your goal should be to help that particular person understand better what you do. That means you have to keep checking on the other person--how much do they know about the field? Did they understand what you last said? Are they familiar with the jargon? Are they still interested? Leave room for them to ask questions which will steer the direction of the conversation...or to change the subject. Make your mantra, "Leave 'em wanting more."
posted by pompelmo at 9:15 AM on June 16, 2013
Pedantic is good, you know. You should exploit that skill to its full extent, but with judgment.
One example: What you don't seem to be now is: pedantic about a truly pedagogical delivery, such that the others really understand (as opposed to, that your own fears are silenced). What you could improve on is the level of preparation.
You could, for example, make a ten point plan before going to a meeting/party/lunchroom/whatever that involves questions about what topics you will react to when others bring them up; what topics you yourself may bring up; what listening techniques you will practice that day (in anticipation of the people you know you will meet - you do know their habits, right?); how you will check yourself, if necessary, in order to not go off an a ranting spree and so on. All these things are in fact lego bits of social interaction that you can rationalize about, pulling on your strength which is: being careful and precise about things.
Evaluate at the end of the day. You'll be surprised how fast you'll learn.
posted by Namlit at 9:20 AM on June 16, 2013
One example: What you don't seem to be now is: pedantic about a truly pedagogical delivery, such that the others really understand (as opposed to, that your own fears are silenced). What you could improve on is the level of preparation.
You could, for example, make a ten point plan before going to a meeting/party/lunchroom/whatever that involves questions about what topics you will react to when others bring them up; what topics you yourself may bring up; what listening techniques you will practice that day (in anticipation of the people you know you will meet - you do know their habits, right?); how you will check yourself, if necessary, in order to not go off an a ranting spree and so on. All these things are in fact lego bits of social interaction that you can rationalize about, pulling on your strength which is: being careful and precise about things.
Evaluate at the end of the day. You'll be surprised how fast you'll learn.
posted by Namlit at 9:20 AM on June 16, 2013
I'm saying this in all seriousness, start a youtube channel. Give lectures there. You could end up having some followers. No one not uninterested will be affected.
Check out the chadafrican channel as an example of a lecture oriented channel. Its about 70% lectures on philosophy and related topics. I go there a couple times a week. I really get a kick out of his passion and I learn quite a bit.
posted by logonym at 9:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Check out the chadafrican channel as an example of a lecture oriented channel. Its about 70% lectures on philosophy and related topics. I go there a couple times a week. I really get a kick out of his passion and I learn quite a bit.
posted by logonym at 9:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
What teachers or smart people do you admire? Think of some very, very bright people who are fascinated AND fascinating, engaged AND engaging, who manage to teach with enthusiasm but without coming across as pedants. First ones that come to my mind are Richard Feynman, and also Mr. Rogers. How do they communicate without bloviating? Model their behavior. Model the behavior of people who are gracious and accessible. The best teachers are lifelong learners. The people you're speaking with (not to, or at) know lots of things you don't. When I keep this in mind, I internalize it as a habit of respect. Seriously, the narrative voice of Feynman's autobiographical books (Surely You're Joking and What Do You Care) showed me how a very smart man can be a very engaging, non-condescending man.
posted by Lou Stuells at 10:16 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Lou Stuells at 10:16 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
This takes the form of not making eye contact, being bombastic, sounding argumentative or defensive, not listening to others, overexplaining, and talking way too much.
As a baseline, do you accept that you can explain something with all the clarity and thoroughness and the best arguments and most accessible explanation in the world, and people still may reject your opinion and disagree with you? And that that isn't losing or a failure on your part, it's social discourse?
Like, you can hold forth on why Arceus is the greatest Pokemon in Pokemon history, but I can still maintain that is totally Ash. It doesn't get weird unless you won't let go of arguing for Arceus.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:09 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a baseline, do you accept that you can explain something with all the clarity and thoroughness and the best arguments and most accessible explanation in the world, and people still may reject your opinion and disagree with you? And that that isn't losing or a failure on your part, it's social discourse?
Like, you can hold forth on why Arceus is the greatest Pokemon in Pokemon history, but I can still maintain that is totally Ash. It doesn't get weird unless you won't let go of arguing for Arceus.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:09 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
A phrase that has served me (that I sometimes forget) is this : "People are very interested in my listening."
Something else that has helped me is the idea that I won't learn anything while I am speaking (sometimes not true, sometimes I come to some insights while explaining something, but this is relatively rare).
It's possible that you haven't gotten negative feedback in your evaluations because you were lecturing/explaining to great detail something that the listener (/student) really cared about. I've caught myself in workplaces, aware that I've just engaged in a long monologue, and apologized for going on about a subject; only to find my coworkers tell me to continue, they were enjoying the lecture.
The other points raised, about having a very short answer to 'what do you do' ('computer stuff') is pretty spot on. They'll pull more information from you as you want it, and you can slowly make your answers more complete. You may find they are really interested in what you do and start asking you complicated questions (eg: "explain public key cryptography") - that's the appropriate time to slip into lecturer mode.
In the job/interview situation, try to have a succinct answer to questions (boil it down to a short sentence or two) and then offer to go into greater detail. This will demonstrate that you can encapsulate a complex issue, but are willing to go into whatever depth the listener wants.
But overall, I try to remember that everyone has something interesting to say (even if they don't know what that is), and you won't learn it as long as you are talking.
(this answer felt a bit long and pedantic; I have been rightfully accused of being a pedant myself).
posted by el io at 12:23 PM on June 16, 2013
Something else that has helped me is the idea that I won't learn anything while I am speaking (sometimes not true, sometimes I come to some insights while explaining something, but this is relatively rare).
It's possible that you haven't gotten negative feedback in your evaluations because you were lecturing/explaining to great detail something that the listener (/student) really cared about. I've caught myself in workplaces, aware that I've just engaged in a long monologue, and apologized for going on about a subject; only to find my coworkers tell me to continue, they were enjoying the lecture.
The other points raised, about having a very short answer to 'what do you do' ('computer stuff') is pretty spot on. They'll pull more information from you as you want it, and you can slowly make your answers more complete. You may find they are really interested in what you do and start asking you complicated questions (eg: "explain public key cryptography") - that's the appropriate time to slip into lecturer mode.
In the job/interview situation, try to have a succinct answer to questions (boil it down to a short sentence or two) and then offer to go into greater detail. This will demonstrate that you can encapsulate a complex issue, but are willing to go into whatever depth the listener wants.
But overall, I try to remember that everyone has something interesting to say (even if they don't know what that is), and you won't learn it as long as you are talking.
(this answer felt a bit long and pedantic; I have been rightfully accused of being a pedant myself).
posted by el io at 12:23 PM on June 16, 2013
Good for you, for taking on this issue. Would it be accurate to say that you feel most comfortable in a teaching role? If so, perhaps you slip into it as a default in non-teaching situations. It might be useful to study the role-playing that's present in your social situations, and see if you can consciously create roles that are more appropriate to them than teaching.
posted by markcmyers at 3:39 PM on June 16, 2013
posted by markcmyers at 3:39 PM on June 16, 2013
Do you have a long-distance friend that you could Skype or iChat or Facetime [etc.] with? My webcam has been a huge boon to me in figuring out where my conversational shortcomings are. It can be hard to hear yourself dominating the conversation. When your face is in the corner of the screen and you can see that you've been the only one talking for the last three minutes, though, it really strikes you.
I also learned to do a pretty good Muppet voice. Now when I hear myself getting pedantic, I interrupt myself and say, "Sorry. [Muppet voice] I am Dr. Bunsen Honeydew and this is my assistant, Beaker." Then I will gesture at the nearest person, who often says "Meep!" and hand the conversational baton off to someone else. "Yeah, I've glazed over enough eyeballs for one night... Sue, didn't you say earlier you were going camping this weekend? Where are you headed?"
This will usually get a chuckle, and it also gives the group (if they are a certain type of group) a shorthand to head you off at the pass if you start blathering again. They'll call you Dr. Honeydew or start meeping. Maybe I just know a lot of weirdos. The point is to let people know that while you may regard the subject you couldn't shut up about deathly seriously, you don't regard yourself the same way. ANALOGY: you might be uncomfortable telling someone his toupee is slipping. But if you see him openly adjust it while saying, "Damn animal keeps trying to escape," you'll know it's okay to nudge him with a smile later when it starts sneaking off again. The guy has an issue, he knows about it, and he's decided it's entertaining. Be that guy.
You can also practice opening up spaces in your monologues, using phrases like, "Does that make sense?" or "You've observed this phenomenon?" If the person desperately wants you to shut up, they will take this opportunity to seize the floor. Then you can gracefully relinquish said floor without anyone having to ask you to please put a sock in it. (Your mouth, not the floor.)
posted by cirocco at 3:53 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I also learned to do a pretty good Muppet voice. Now when I hear myself getting pedantic, I interrupt myself and say, "Sorry. [Muppet voice] I am Dr. Bunsen Honeydew and this is my assistant, Beaker." Then I will gesture at the nearest person, who often says "Meep!" and hand the conversational baton off to someone else. "Yeah, I've glazed over enough eyeballs for one night... Sue, didn't you say earlier you were going camping this weekend? Where are you headed?"
This will usually get a chuckle, and it also gives the group (if they are a certain type of group) a shorthand to head you off at the pass if you start blathering again. They'll call you Dr. Honeydew or start meeping. Maybe I just know a lot of weirdos. The point is to let people know that while you may regard the subject you couldn't shut up about deathly seriously, you don't regard yourself the same way. ANALOGY: you might be uncomfortable telling someone his toupee is slipping. But if you see him openly adjust it while saying, "Damn animal keeps trying to escape," you'll know it's okay to nudge him with a smile later when it starts sneaking off again. The guy has an issue, he knows about it, and he's decided it's entertaining. Be that guy.
You can also practice opening up spaces in your monologues, using phrases like, "Does that make sense?" or "You've observed this phenomenon?" If the person desperately wants you to shut up, they will take this opportunity to seize the floor. Then you can gracefully relinquish said floor without anyone having to ask you to please put a sock in it. (Your mouth, not the floor.)
posted by cirocco at 3:53 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
My dad can ramble on sometimes and my mother half-seriously suggested that he should only speak four sentences before it's the other person's turn to speak. I actually think this is a good rule of thumb.
posted by gentian at 8:46 PM on June 16, 2013
posted by gentian at 8:46 PM on June 16, 2013
It sounds like a way for you to keep other people at arm's length. By talking at them instead of building up a rapport you also prevent them from getting at you.
Anyway, what kind of conversation do you want? It's easier to work towards something you want, than to simply stop using your default option (because what do you do instead?).
I'd suggest preparing a little paragraph in your head about what you do. "I'm a *insert job title*." Then add a sentence or two to explain how this specialty of yours plays a part in this person's everyday life. "For example, do you ever notice how X happens when there is Y/do you remember when Z was in the news last year? This is the kind of thing we work on in my field."
People will either say something non-committal in which case you talk about something else. Or they'll ask you more in which case you go on answering their questions.
One good thing I have noticed is that people respond really well when you show how excited you are by your subject and how much you love it. They don't like being talked at pedantically, but if you say something like, "what I really love about this is.../ what's really exciting about it is..." they relate much better to you. People like people who show positive emotions.
If you're unsure about how interested people are in your talking you could also ask them what they think about some known aspect of your work (depending on your field of research, I guess...I imagine it's hard to find something of popular interest in some fields). They may be completely wrong or stupid about it, but you just nod and look interested and say "right." This works for people who are a bit soap boxy themselves. It may fluster shy people. Either way it allows you to change the subject afterwards. Also, I seem to remember from some experiment that people actually rate experts as more intelligent when experts ask them what they think.
And as an emergency measure when you realise you've been talking at people and their eyes are glazing over, light humour is great (as mentioned upthread). Just pull the brake, stop short and say:
"Wow. Listen to me rattling on. Well, as you can see I get excited!"
posted by Omnomnom at 1:22 AM on June 17, 2013
Anyway, what kind of conversation do you want? It's easier to work towards something you want, than to simply stop using your default option (because what do you do instead?).
I'd suggest preparing a little paragraph in your head about what you do. "I'm a *insert job title*." Then add a sentence or two to explain how this specialty of yours plays a part in this person's everyday life. "For example, do you ever notice how X happens when there is Y/do you remember when Z was in the news last year? This is the kind of thing we work on in my field."
People will either say something non-committal in which case you talk about something else. Or they'll ask you more in which case you go on answering their questions.
One good thing I have noticed is that people respond really well when you show how excited you are by your subject and how much you love it. They don't like being talked at pedantically, but if you say something like, "what I really love about this is.../ what's really exciting about it is..." they relate much better to you. People like people who show positive emotions.
If you're unsure about how interested people are in your talking you could also ask them what they think about some known aspect of your work (depending on your field of research, I guess...I imagine it's hard to find something of popular interest in some fields). They may be completely wrong or stupid about it, but you just nod and look interested and say "right." This works for people who are a bit soap boxy themselves. It may fluster shy people. Either way it allows you to change the subject afterwards. Also, I seem to remember from some experiment that people actually rate experts as more intelligent when experts ask them what they think.
And as an emergency measure when you realise you've been talking at people and their eyes are glazing over, light humour is great (as mentioned upthread). Just pull the brake, stop short and say:
"Wow. Listen to me rattling on. Well, as you can see I get excited!"
posted by Omnomnom at 1:22 AM on June 17, 2013
I have this problem and a mentor taught me this helpful thing:
When someone asks you a question, give them the absolute shortest response that could give them the information they needed and then ask, "Did that answer your question?" Only elaborate if the answer is "no."
posted by Saminal at 8:40 AM on June 17, 2013
When someone asks you a question, give them the absolute shortest response that could give them the information they needed and then ask, "Did that answer your question?" Only elaborate if the answer is "no."
posted by Saminal at 8:40 AM on June 17, 2013
As a person with the same problem...think of the most annoying pedant you yourself know. "But I LIKE it when people share their knowledge with me," you say. No, really, there are some people whose pedantry you find annoying. Maybe one in particular.
To other people, YOU are as annoying as that one special person. Heck, maybe more so.
posted by skbw at 3:18 PM on June 17, 2013
To other people, YOU are as annoying as that one special person. Heck, maybe more so.
posted by skbw at 3:18 PM on June 17, 2013
What I finally learned to do was let go of needing to be right all the time. I can't change anyone, and I'm confident that what I believe to be true is indeed the truth.It doesn't harm me or my ego if people disagree with me.
posted by ohyouknow at 4:15 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ohyouknow at 4:15 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
The secret is being aware of when you are talking about something or feeling insecure. Train yourself over a period of 6 weeks to be aware of those moments. The rest will take care of itself.
Let other people's level of interest in the topic be your guide.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:33 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]