Loneliness and OKCupid, part 2
June 8, 2013 3:14 PM Subscribe
A few weeks ago I, a hetero male in his early 30s, asked about dating and using OKCupid with some restrictions: no kids, no religion, no alcohol being the main ones. This is a follow-up to that AskMe, but going beyond OKCupid.
The MeFi consensus was to not be so absolute with my restrictions but instead to dig a little deeper. So, I put up some pictures, tweaked my profile a little and looked harder. In the end...I found almost no one a suitable match or even that interesting.
In the questions, a surprising number of these liberal, urban women were racists or supported eugenics. Sometimes the questions/profile showed a clear mismatch, nothing evil but it just wouldn't work. They're obsessed with travel and I'm not. I'm really into video games and they are really not. Mostly though the profiles were just not compelling to me, even with a really high match/friend percentage and no red flags. Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started. I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it. (I'm certain my own profile met this criteria.) Of the ones I liked, some had red flags. One woman, I was very interested but she was borderline asexual, which is not for me. And, after all this, there were a couple women I really liked and there were no problems and I sent them non-psycho messages and they ignored or hid me. Damn.
I've pretty much given up. I took my profile down because it seemed like a lost cause and it took too much mental energy to keep up. I had no one to send messages to and I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why. One very nice woman messaged me first but I was not into her and after some agonizing I turned her down. (Second time I've turned someone down in my life, very painful to do, I feel terrible for you women who have to do it all the time.)
So anyway that is all very sad. I'm interested if this matches anyone else's experience.
I reject the notion that my "restrictions" are extreme or that I should just be grateful to find anyone who matches them who'll have me. To me they are just minimal criteria, compatibility requirements in the most basic sense. As an analogy for normal (???) people, replace them with "doesn't litter", "doesn't believe in Santa", "doesn't do heroin" (no offense intended) and pretend you live in a world where each of these are rare. That's how I feel.
This is very alienating. I live in a walkable area and take public transit and I pass many attractive women when I go anywhere. I don't leer but I politely watch women and enjoy being reminded after many years of celibacy that I still find women attractive. But there is always this undercurrent realization that the odds that any particular woman would work for me are so astronomically low that there's no point in trying. It is painful.
I spend more time working than I should and play games and read and generally try to take my mind off things. I have no long-term plan though other than taking my mind off things for the next 50 years. I have no close friends and am distant with family. I could go to meetups or take classes but I don't see how me attending a pottery class would change anything. I could go to meetups for people without kids but I don't see how that would be any better than OKCupid, and the racism and other serious problems would be harder to see.
I don't know what to do. I'd love to hear some stories or advice from people who are like me or who felt like this but then things got better that didn't involve them just giving up and settling.
The MeFi consensus was to not be so absolute with my restrictions but instead to dig a little deeper. So, I put up some pictures, tweaked my profile a little and looked harder. In the end...I found almost no one a suitable match or even that interesting.
In the questions, a surprising number of these liberal, urban women were racists or supported eugenics. Sometimes the questions/profile showed a clear mismatch, nothing evil but it just wouldn't work. They're obsessed with travel and I'm not. I'm really into video games and they are really not. Mostly though the profiles were just not compelling to me, even with a really high match/friend percentage and no red flags. Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started. I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it. (I'm certain my own profile met this criteria.) Of the ones I liked, some had red flags. One woman, I was very interested but she was borderline asexual, which is not for me. And, after all this, there were a couple women I really liked and there were no problems and I sent them non-psycho messages and they ignored or hid me. Damn.
I've pretty much given up. I took my profile down because it seemed like a lost cause and it took too much mental energy to keep up. I had no one to send messages to and I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why. One very nice woman messaged me first but I was not into her and after some agonizing I turned her down. (Second time I've turned someone down in my life, very painful to do, I feel terrible for you women who have to do it all the time.)
So anyway that is all very sad. I'm interested if this matches anyone else's experience.
I reject the notion that my "restrictions" are extreme or that I should just be grateful to find anyone who matches them who'll have me. To me they are just minimal criteria, compatibility requirements in the most basic sense. As an analogy for normal (???) people, replace them with "doesn't litter", "doesn't believe in Santa", "doesn't do heroin" (no offense intended) and pretend you live in a world where each of these are rare. That's how I feel.
This is very alienating. I live in a walkable area and take public transit and I pass many attractive women when I go anywhere. I don't leer but I politely watch women and enjoy being reminded after many years of celibacy that I still find women attractive. But there is always this undercurrent realization that the odds that any particular woman would work for me are so astronomically low that there's no point in trying. It is painful.
I spend more time working than I should and play games and read and generally try to take my mind off things. I have no long-term plan though other than taking my mind off things for the next 50 years. I have no close friends and am distant with family. I could go to meetups or take classes but I don't see how me attending a pottery class would change anything. I could go to meetups for people without kids but I don't see how that would be any better than OKCupid, and the racism and other serious problems would be harder to see.
I don't know what to do. I'd love to hear some stories or advice from people who are like me or who felt like this but then things got better that didn't involve them just giving up and settling.
I think you're thinking too much about whether or not you're attracted to a person's profile. There may be a lot of women whose profiles are not "weird," but who are actually weird in real life, just as one example. Sure, don't message people who are clearly racists, but do message the people who are really into travel or don't seem to like video games or just don't appear to have anything wrong with them, even if their profiles don't speak deeply to you. Because the profile is not the person. And the goal is to meet people in person and go out on dates with people and determine whether you'd like to keep spending time with people. Not profiles.
Especially for men, you're going to send a lot of messages that will be ignored or won't go anywhere. That's just how heterosexual online dating works. So you should message anyone whose profile doesn't actively turn you off, ask out anyone who responds more than once, and go out with anyone who says yes. That's my advice.
posted by decathecting at 3:32 PM on June 8, 2013 [11 favorites]
Especially for men, you're going to send a lot of messages that will be ignored or won't go anywhere. That's just how heterosexual online dating works. So you should message anyone whose profile doesn't actively turn you off, ask out anyone who responds more than once, and go out with anyone who says yes. That's my advice.
posted by decathecting at 3:32 PM on June 8, 2013 [11 favorites]
I can't address all of your questions, but I would say that you need to give it more time. A few weeks is not very long at all, in OKC Land, if you're looking for something long term and sustainable.
I'm not going to say that your criteria are something that you should bend on, because those are clearly important to you. But OKC is something of a numbers game, and the more criteria you add of any kind, you end up with fewer matches. Going on dates with people who dont have the perfect profile is a part of that. Hey, they probably didn't have all of Mefilter's help with theirs! It's just coffee and an awkward hug at worst.
The idea of meetups and classes and volunteering is to a) do cool stuff that you like (i.e. not just as a dating stage) and b) maybe meeting interesting people who have never heard of/would never use OKC and who have overlapping interests.
posted by jetlagaddict at 3:33 PM on June 8, 2013
I'm not going to say that your criteria are something that you should bend on, because those are clearly important to you. But OKC is something of a numbers game, and the more criteria you add of any kind, you end up with fewer matches. Going on dates with people who dont have the perfect profile is a part of that. Hey, they probably didn't have all of Mefilter's help with theirs! It's just coffee and an awkward hug at worst.
The idea of meetups and classes and volunteering is to a) do cool stuff that you like (i.e. not just as a dating stage) and b) maybe meeting interesting people who have never heard of/would never use OKC and who have overlapping interests.
posted by jetlagaddict at 3:33 PM on June 8, 2013
I could go to meetups or take classes but I don't see how me attending a pottery class would change anything.
You'd meet people! People are interesting! They tell fascinating stories and know good restaurants and sometimes like the same sports and play the same games and hate the damned traffic just as much.
Your problem with women sounds like a problem with people. Figure out why other people are interesting, and then go meet lots of them. Some of them will be women. That's not the point. The point is to cultivate an interest in others besides just "what can they do for me?" Not only will this vastly improve your odds of being attractive to someone else, but it'll help in social situations in general.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:36 PM on June 8, 2013 [29 favorites]
You'd meet people! People are interesting! They tell fascinating stories and know good restaurants and sometimes like the same sports and play the same games and hate the damned traffic just as much.
Your problem with women sounds like a problem with people. Figure out why other people are interesting, and then go meet lots of them. Some of them will be women. That's not the point. The point is to cultivate an interest in others besides just "what can they do for me?" Not only will this vastly improve your odds of being attractive to someone else, but it'll help in social situations in general.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:36 PM on June 8, 2013 [29 favorites]
After reading both you questions I think your number one issue is that you don't seem to believe you are worth dating and are shooting yourself down before you ever get started. If you are ruling out women based on liking video games, your criteria are really way to specific and you seem that you are setting yourself up to fail. You are worthy of relationships - but you do need to believe it.
posted by florencetnoa at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by florencetnoa at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2013 [8 favorites]
It sounds as if you're putting up obstacles that are sabotaging your chances of meeting people. I would not, for example, expect a potential partner to share an interest in videogames.
And this:
I have no long-term plan though other than taking my mind off things for the next 50 years. I have no close friends and am distant with family.
sounds quite sad. I am now going to invoke the "therapy meme." Although I am not your therapist nor functioning as one on this website.
posted by DMelanogaster at 3:48 PM on June 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
And this:
I have no long-term plan though other than taking my mind off things for the next 50 years. I have no close friends and am distant with family.
sounds quite sad. I am now going to invoke the "therapy meme." Although I am not your therapist nor functioning as one on this website.
posted by DMelanogaster at 3:48 PM on June 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
How long did you have your profile up, like 2 or 3 weeks? That's really not long. There are new people signing up each week.
Also OKC is not the only thing in the world. What other sites do people use in your area? What other means are available to you (single's meetup, speed dating, single's cooking classes)?
How weird was your profile, really? Profiles that are not genuine often read as creepy. People who photoshop their pictures (not just to remove blemishes) or cite plays throughout the entire profile or are overly jokey/sarcastic will get a different kind of feedback than someone who is genuine.
As for interests, those are not super important IMHO. Partners can have different hobbies/interests and still be happy together. You could travel to a games convention together for example - see what I mean?
Loneliness is best cured by social interactions. Maybe start meeting people first without fixating on the relationship aspect. Even attending a pottery class (or anything else) could boost your confidence/improve your mental/emotional well being. Look if you are lonely and cooped up alone all the time and dismissing people right away how can anyone break through to you?
Sorry if this sounds harsh, sincerely want to help.
posted by travelwithcats at 3:51 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also OKC is not the only thing in the world. What other sites do people use in your area? What other means are available to you (single's meetup, speed dating, single's cooking classes)?
How weird was your profile, really? Profiles that are not genuine often read as creepy. People who photoshop their pictures (not just to remove blemishes) or cite plays throughout the entire profile or are overly jokey/sarcastic will get a different kind of feedback than someone who is genuine.
As for interests, those are not super important IMHO. Partners can have different hobbies/interests and still be happy together. You could travel to a games convention together for example - see what I mean?
Loneliness is best cured by social interactions. Maybe start meeting people first without fixating on the relationship aspect. Even attending a pottery class (or anything else) could boost your confidence/improve your mental/emotional well being. Look if you are lonely and cooped up alone all the time and dismissing people right away how can anyone break through to you?
Sorry if this sounds harsh, sincerely want to help.
posted by travelwithcats at 3:51 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
You might want to think about why you might expect your romantic partner to share all your interests and meet all your needs in that arena. Some interests/needs (like liking video games, maybe) can be met by friends.
posted by corvine at 3:54 PM on June 8, 2013 [17 favorites]
posted by corvine at 3:54 PM on June 8, 2013 [17 favorites]
I'm really into video games and they are really not.
Based on this line, I'd say that you are actively searching for reasons to reject every single woman on earth, now, previously and in the future, to shore up your vision of yourself as a one of a kind super special unique ice crystal that simply cannot find love.
So yea, get therapy because you're wrong and sound foolish about it.
posted by jacalata at 3:54 PM on June 8, 2013 [38 favorites]
Based on this line, I'd say that you are actively searching for reasons to reject every single woman on earth, now, previously and in the future, to shore up your vision of yourself as a one of a kind super special unique ice crystal that simply cannot find love.
So yea, get therapy because you're wrong and sound foolish about it.
posted by jacalata at 3:54 PM on June 8, 2013 [38 favorites]
no kids, no religion, no alcohol . . . As an analogy for normal (???) people, replace them with "doesn't litter", "doesn't believe in Santa", "doesn't do heroin" (no offense intended)
As a childless woman in a relationship with an agnostic man who doesn't drink, the way you've phrased a number of elements in your questions is quite off-putting to me. It seems like you aren't just looking for someone who isn't religious, you're looking for someone who will liken religious people's believe as akin to "believing in Santa". I'm not suggesting that you should change your basic beliefs, but rather that you appear to be almost religious, if you'll forgive the comparison, in your dislike of life choices that others have made.
And I'll note - that while my partner doesn't drink and is agnostic, we are comfortable with the fact that I drink modestly socially and am religious. We've been together with that apparent discongruity for more than a half dozen years. I think our differences make our relationship (and conversations) more interesting, and we both respect each other's choices and beliefs.
Regardless - put your profile back up, leave it there for a while. Be choosy, be selective, take your time. Online dating takes patience and time (and is how I met Mr. Arnicae, FWIW). As my Mom would say, "You've got to kiss a lot of frogs!" Good luck finding your right frog.
posted by arnicae at 3:56 PM on June 8, 2013 [9 favorites]
As a childless woman in a relationship with an agnostic man who doesn't drink, the way you've phrased a number of elements in your questions is quite off-putting to me. It seems like you aren't just looking for someone who isn't religious, you're looking for someone who will liken religious people's believe as akin to "believing in Santa". I'm not suggesting that you should change your basic beliefs, but rather that you appear to be almost religious, if you'll forgive the comparison, in your dislike of life choices that others have made.
And I'll note - that while my partner doesn't drink and is agnostic, we are comfortable with the fact that I drink modestly socially and am religious. We've been together with that apparent discongruity for more than a half dozen years. I think our differences make our relationship (and conversations) more interesting, and we both respect each other's choices and beliefs.
Regardless - put your profile back up, leave it there for a while. Be choosy, be selective, take your time. Online dating takes patience and time (and is how I met Mr. Arnicae, FWIW). As my Mom would say, "You've got to kiss a lot of frogs!" Good luck finding your right frog.
posted by arnicae at 3:56 PM on June 8, 2013 [9 favorites]
Tough love ahead. You've given yourself two weeks to find a life partner and you're not prepared to give anyone a chance. You're not positive, you're not open and you're convinced no one is as special and unique as you. Why even bother asking this question? If I described a woman on OK Cupid in those terms, would you be interested in her? Give up now, it's clear you already have. Or massively adjust your expectations and your attitude - if you are THAT special, unique, quirky (you like video games!) don't you think it might take a little longer to find someone? I don't think you're any of those things, I think it's your attitude and until that changes, nothing else will.
posted by Jubey at 4:01 PM on June 8, 2013 [25 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 4:01 PM on June 8, 2013 [25 favorites]
First of all, if you're looking for women in their 30s who don't want (or have?) kids you have just reduced the size of your dating pool, by, well, a lot. (And I say this as someone who did not want kids, either.) If it's all a numbers game you are working with a lot fewer numbers than other people on the site, and you might consider that this one requirement is the only thing about your profile women are rejecting because they're not even going to look past that.
I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it.
I'm weird. I like weirdos. One thing I've learned as I've gotten older is that as people get older they don't always let their freak flag fly. A big part of signing up with these services is being willing to meet people and it would not surprise me at all if a lot of people downplayed their weirdness. If I had a profile on a dating site I'm not sure I would come out and say I'm a weirdo, but between the tattoos, taste in movies and music and other interests I'm sure someone could decide if I was weird enough (or too weird!) to contact.
FWIW, if someone wanted to set me up with someone and all I knew about them was "no kids, no religion, no alcohol" I would be happy to meet that person for coffee.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:05 PM on June 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it.
I'm weird. I like weirdos. One thing I've learned as I've gotten older is that as people get older they don't always let their freak flag fly. A big part of signing up with these services is being willing to meet people and it would not surprise me at all if a lot of people downplayed their weirdness. If I had a profile on a dating site I'm not sure I would come out and say I'm a weirdo, but between the tattoos, taste in movies and music and other interests I'm sure someone could decide if I was weird enough (or too weird!) to contact.
FWIW, if someone wanted to set me up with someone and all I knew about them was "no kids, no religion, no alcohol" I would be happy to meet that person for coffee.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:05 PM on June 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
Mostly though the profiles were just not compelling to me, even with a really high match/friend percentage and no red flags. Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started.
The one piece of advice I give over and over in online dating questions is "don't decide whether you like someone until you've met in person." Sure, there are profiles that will scream "NOT A GOOD MATCH," and you'd be correct not to respond to them. But a lot of wonderful people have profiles that are just kinda dull. If someone's flag-free and dealbreaker-free, has some overlaps with your interests, and writes well enough, there's no harm in starting a conversation. You never know.
As an aside, I used to feel like all I could hope to do with life was just keep myself distracted until my time ran out. It was a sign of clinical depression, though I didn't realize it at the time.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:05 PM on June 8, 2013 [17 favorites]
The one piece of advice I give over and over in online dating questions is "don't decide whether you like someone until you've met in person." Sure, there are profiles that will scream "NOT A GOOD MATCH," and you'd be correct not to respond to them. But a lot of wonderful people have profiles that are just kinda dull. If someone's flag-free and dealbreaker-free, has some overlaps with your interests, and writes well enough, there's no harm in starting a conversation. You never know.
As an aside, I used to feel like all I could hope to do with life was just keep myself distracted until my time ran out. It was a sign of clinical depression, though I didn't realize it at the time.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:05 PM on June 8, 2013 [17 favorites]
This is really really bad logic
>>"I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why."
If she has the same "rule" then how the heck can you two ever contact each other?
posted by Sophont at 4:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [33 favorites]
>>"I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why."
If she has the same "rule" then how the heck can you two ever contact each other?
posted by Sophont at 4:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [33 favorites]
I also think you are thinking too much about how attracted you are to a woman based on their profiles. Messaging a woman does not equal a long term relationship. It means you might meet for a first non-date date. If you make it to meeting in person, that's great right there. You need to take the pressure off yourself so that you can enjoy the process. It's also about getting to know what you want more, not just about judging and filtering others who probably won't get through.
Why are you not comfortable with women messaging you first? That just sounds odd.
The way you're overthinking this and rejecting women's profiles for not fitting 100% of your requirements makes me think you're not actually ready for a relationship.
Finally, for a lot of women, a guy who is very into video games = immature, and not relationship material. Especially once we're in our 30s. I say this as a woman who is falls right into that nerd/geek spectrum and prefers to date the same.
posted by so much modern time at 4:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [7 favorites]
Why are you not comfortable with women messaging you first? That just sounds odd.
The way you're overthinking this and rejecting women's profiles for not fitting 100% of your requirements makes me think you're not actually ready for a relationship.
Finally, for a lot of women, a guy who is very into video games = immature, and not relationship material. Especially once we're in our 30s. I say this as a woman who is falls right into that nerd/geek spectrum and prefers to date the same.
posted by so much modern time at 4:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [7 favorites]
Dude, you have to chill about these requirements. You do not have to be exactly the same as the people you date. My fiance is a non-religious person who loves video games, I am a religious person who has not played a video game since Donkey Kong Country, but um...so what? Presumably if she doesn't like video games, she'll have other interests that she enjoys while you play video games.
I am not a meetup person at all, BUT if you're dedicated to finding a nerd, let me suggest that you try hanging out at places where other nerds hang out. You said you live somewhere urban - here in Chicago, there are loads and loads of places/events that cater exclusively to nerds. Do you play board games or card games? Go to an open game night at a nerdy board game store. Do you like Star Wars? Go to a Star Wars thing. Go to nerd conventions and comic book stores and book signings. There are nerd meetups here for Firefly and Doctor Who and, like, Bioshock and Star Trek and renaissance faire enthusiasts or whatever. (If you happen to live in Chicago, memail me and I'll send you an extensive list of nerd-oriented events. If you don't, I'll bet that your urban area has them too.)
OK Cupid seriously sounds like a disaster for you, because it allows you to apply these really rigid filters and eliminate lots of people who would probably be great for you. In real life, you can't look at someone and automatically judge them unfit - you actually get to find out whether or not you're attracted to them before you find out if they like video games or drink socially. (Pro tip: if you are attracted to someone, and they are a nice person, you probably won't care that much if they have a few beers on the weekend.)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:16 PM on June 8, 2013 [9 favorites]
I am not a meetup person at all, BUT if you're dedicated to finding a nerd, let me suggest that you try hanging out at places where other nerds hang out. You said you live somewhere urban - here in Chicago, there are loads and loads of places/events that cater exclusively to nerds. Do you play board games or card games? Go to an open game night at a nerdy board game store. Do you like Star Wars? Go to a Star Wars thing. Go to nerd conventions and comic book stores and book signings. There are nerd meetups here for Firefly and Doctor Who and, like, Bioshock and Star Trek and renaissance faire enthusiasts or whatever. (If you happen to live in Chicago, memail me and I'll send you an extensive list of nerd-oriented events. If you don't, I'll bet that your urban area has them too.)
OK Cupid seriously sounds like a disaster for you, because it allows you to apply these really rigid filters and eliminate lots of people who would probably be great for you. In real life, you can't look at someone and automatically judge them unfit - you actually get to find out whether or not you're attracted to them before you find out if they like video games or drink socially. (Pro tip: if you are attracted to someone, and they are a nice person, you probably won't care that much if they have a few beers on the weekend.)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:16 PM on June 8, 2013 [9 favorites]
Here's the thing. I've been there too. If you come across in person anywhere NEAR as miserably unhappy as you do in these posts, then people won't want to be around you. It's not your filters, IMHO. It's that you sound really unhappy. I hate to hear it because I hate to see another person suffering. I hope things improve for you.
I take medication now and it has helped so much. I like myself.
I believe you and I am glad to hear it. But maybe you need to travel down the same positive path--awesome!--before you're ready to date. It took me about two and a half years from the day I first walked into serious, long-term therapy and drugs.
posted by skbw at 4:17 PM on June 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
I take medication now and it has helped so much. I like myself.
I believe you and I am glad to hear it. But maybe you need to travel down the same positive path--awesome!--before you're ready to date. It took me about two and a half years from the day I first walked into serious, long-term therapy and drugs.
posted by skbw at 4:17 PM on June 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
Also, about the racism. A lot of people click the wrong buttons on OKC surveys. I've done it myself, and had to go back later to fix it. So, y'know, just talk to them for a bit and then ask them about it.
posted by howfar at 4:25 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by howfar at 4:25 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Have you actually met anyone in person yet? I think you are building this up into something much bigger than it needs to be.
When I went on my very first okcupid date I was beyond nervous...I can't even tell you, but it went fine and once I saw what it was about I was fine and now even enjoy meeting new people even though it usually goes nowhere.
There is nothing wrong with being picky, but I think your problem is that you are being picky about these women based on their dating profiles and I think that is due to nerves about actually meeting someone in person. None of my dates have ever gone as I pictured they would.
I've gone out with and had a blast with people who had pretty boring profiles with not much info, finding out that we actually did have a lot in common, and I've gone out with people who were high matches on paper and looked like there would be sparks flying and it was a total dud in person.
I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it.
Be careful, I've found that most people are weird, but it does take time to get to know someone's weirdness unless they're socially clueless or have boundary issues. I have stories.
In my experience(and likely many others) the main thing that okcupid can't really predict is whether or not you will have chemistry with someone. Having a high match percentage or lots of similar interests means pretty much nothing.
posted by fromageball at 4:27 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
When I went on my very first okcupid date I was beyond nervous...I can't even tell you, but it went fine and once I saw what it was about I was fine and now even enjoy meeting new people even though it usually goes nowhere.
There is nothing wrong with being picky, but I think your problem is that you are being picky about these women based on their dating profiles and I think that is due to nerves about actually meeting someone in person. None of my dates have ever gone as I pictured they would.
I've gone out with and had a blast with people who had pretty boring profiles with not much info, finding out that we actually did have a lot in common, and I've gone out with people who were high matches on paper and looked like there would be sparks flying and it was a total dud in person.
I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it.
Be careful, I've found that most people are weird, but it does take time to get to know someone's weirdness unless they're socially clueless or have boundary issues. I have stories.
In my experience(and likely many others) the main thing that okcupid can't really predict is whether or not you will have chemistry with someone. Having a high match percentage or lots of similar interests means pretty much nothing.
posted by fromageball at 4:27 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've found that profiles are somewhat aspirational in nature. People say a lot of things that they wish they would do more of. "I love travel" means "I went to Europe during college and for a wedding once, and want to do it again sometime."
Also, don't put TOO much stock in the questions. Some of them are catch 22 types of questions, and some of the other ones don't always say what you think they mean. (Like the eugenics one- it doesn't ask about the ethics of doing that, it asks just about the effects. So, you know, lighten up a little.)
posted by gjc at 4:50 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also, don't put TOO much stock in the questions. Some of them are catch 22 types of questions, and some of the other ones don't always say what you think they mean. (Like the eugenics one- it doesn't ask about the ethics of doing that, it asks just about the effects. So, you know, lighten up a little.)
posted by gjc at 4:50 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Just some anecdata: I met my husband on OKC...after 5+ years of online dating. Online dating is not the only way to meet someone, and it's probably not the best way to meet someone. But it is 100% better than hanging out by yourself in your apartment. It may take a while. You may only have a small chance on any given day of meeting a great person you want to date. But that small chance is still better than your chance of meeting that person at home on your couch.
So, my advice is: don't take your profile down. Sometimes you'll be more active, sometimes less. Maybe when you're less active, someone will see your profile and message you. And, as others have advised, I'd also say to go on more dates. That way you can get a better sense of the correspondence between the profile and the person. It's not perfect!
It all depends on how much you want to find a relationship. If you're just as happy to stay single, and you hate the thought of going on a lackluster date, then keep being very selective about profiles. If you are really eager to meet someone, and you're willing to risk an "unsuccessful" date, then try going out with a few people whose profiles seem not bad but not stellar.
posted by pompelmo at 4:57 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
So, my advice is: don't take your profile down. Sometimes you'll be more active, sometimes less. Maybe when you're less active, someone will see your profile and message you. And, as others have advised, I'd also say to go on more dates. That way you can get a better sense of the correspondence between the profile and the person. It's not perfect!
It all depends on how much you want to find a relationship. If you're just as happy to stay single, and you hate the thought of going on a lackluster date, then keep being very selective about profiles. If you are really eager to meet someone, and you're willing to risk an "unsuccessful" date, then try going out with a few people whose profiles seem not bad but not stellar.
posted by pompelmo at 4:57 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Even if you do not want to invest in EHarmony I would suggest taking the personality profile. That data will provide who you are and who you would be compatible with. I have not had a great experience with the dating websites either. I feel like the guys I want (I'm a woman) are not interested in me. I'm like good for one night and that's it. THus, i have given up and gone back to my ex. I am very much in a similar boat. I am far from smitten with this guy I am with. he lives far away. I have hit complacency, which is what i hear in your 50 years comment. I don't know much, but I know I need to get out more. I am a busy person but not networking the way I should within young professional's organizations and other soirree benefits that my metropolitan area holds. I think there is hope. I think that you and I need to keep looking. Someone that met the guy i am with this week told me flat out that he is a two, and this was another male. He is very what you see is what you get -direct, which I appreciate. Its nice to know the people like us can do better. the question is how, I think it is a matter of placement. getting out there in the right circles of people. knowing what you want in a partner and what would be your best match. thus, this circles us back to the suggestion about the personalty profile with Eharmony. it is worth it, even though i can't remember what mine said. lol. Doesn't sound like you carry a felony or are a serial killer so i think you have a shot. just kidding of course.
posted by Jewel98 at 5:09 PM on June 8, 2013
posted by Jewel98 at 5:09 PM on June 8, 2013
They're obsessed with travel and I'm not. I'm really into video games and they are really not.
So? I travel without my husband and play video games without my husband. Our hobbies are not what bind us.
Mostly though the profiles were just not compelling to me, even with a really high match/friend percentage and no red flags.
I would suggest putting anyone with a high match/friend percentage and no red flags into a "potential coffee dates" pile, contacting them, and hoping you get a chance to get coffee.
Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started.
You are not starting a relationship. You are starting a coffee date. You will have dozens of one-off coffee dates before you get within sniffing distance of a relationship
You are treating this like catalogue shopping and that is not, not, not what it is.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:10 PM on June 8, 2013 [38 favorites]
So? I travel without my husband and play video games without my husband. Our hobbies are not what bind us.
Mostly though the profiles were just not compelling to me, even with a really high match/friend percentage and no red flags.
I would suggest putting anyone with a high match/friend percentage and no red flags into a "potential coffee dates" pile, contacting them, and hoping you get a chance to get coffee.
Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started.
You are not starting a relationship. You are starting a coffee date. You will have dozens of one-off coffee dates before you get within sniffing distance of a relationship
You are treating this like catalogue shopping and that is not, not, not what it is.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:10 PM on June 8, 2013 [38 favorites]
I think some of your rigidity is maybe misplaced. An example of something not to budge on: looking for women who are in their 30s and are committed to being childfree. They are out there (hi!), but especially at 30 it seems like the baby rabies starts kicking in, and it can be lonely for those of us who are definitely not signing up for the baby thing. It's just going to take you longer to find someone out there like that.
Something to budge on, like people seem to be glomming onto, would be the video games. I once was quite a gamer, but now I just play casual and puzzle games occasionally. When I met my beau he was super into WoW. Which was great, he could do that on his own, or I could read or do whatever while he played. (He's mostly left that game in favor of others.)
Having differences like that -- and maybe religion isn't one, I can understand that, but pastimes -- is what keeps things interesting. It's good to have interests your partner doesn't share. Sometimes you need a haven that's just yours. And you may find you can get along with and even love someone who doesn't share your hobbies -- and you might even find a new hobby that way.
Just start thinking of the OK Cupid stuff as, like, the negative 1st step of dating. Actually meeting someone in person would be 0. Now when you want to go on a second date? That's 1, you're actually stepping into possible relationship territory.
posted by fiercecupcake at 5:13 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Something to budge on, like people seem to be glomming onto, would be the video games. I once was quite a gamer, but now I just play casual and puzzle games occasionally. When I met my beau he was super into WoW. Which was great, he could do that on his own, or I could read or do whatever while he played. (He's mostly left that game in favor of others.)
Having differences like that -- and maybe religion isn't one, I can understand that, but pastimes -- is what keeps things interesting. It's good to have interests your partner doesn't share. Sometimes you need a haven that's just yours. And you may find you can get along with and even love someone who doesn't share your hobbies -- and you might even find a new hobby that way.
Just start thinking of the OK Cupid stuff as, like, the negative 1st step of dating. Actually meeting someone in person would be 0. Now when you want to go on a second date? That's 1, you're actually stepping into possible relationship territory.
posted by fiercecupcake at 5:13 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
I met my current guy online. And like most people I had a list of things I wanted in a partner. He doesn't have a lot of those things I thought were deal breakers and I am so grateful I didn't pass him over because of it. He's amazing and I'm very lucky. The things that I might have dismissed him for are so inconsequential now as to seem silly in retrospect. Thank goodness I didn't get in my own way this time.
All this is to say you may be missing out on meeting someone awesome you never would have imagined yourself with and who you can't imagine your life without. Open yourself up a little and you might be pleasantly surprised.
posted by cecic at 5:15 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
All this is to say you may be missing out on meeting someone awesome you never would have imagined yourself with and who you can't imagine your life without. Open yourself up a little and you might be pleasantly surprised.
posted by cecic at 5:15 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
There are dealbreakers for me, and I find it hard to take the risk of meeting new people, with the consequence that I don't date much. You have a choice - widen your approach, be more accepting of women who aren't a great match on paper, or stay home. If you don't care about pottery, don't take a pottery class, but maybe if you took pottery, you'd meet somebody who likes to make gargoyles or sculpt heads of game characters.
posted by theora55 at 5:20 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 5:20 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Lots of good answers here.
To address the racism angle: are you referring to OKCupid's "Are you a racist? Yes/No" question? That question can be interpreted in different ways. I could see someone answering "Yes" and meaning "Yes, I admit I have some socially inculcated biases that I need to work on. I'm not so naive as to think I don't see color" rather than "Yup, I'm a racist and proud of it."
posted by Mila at 5:38 PM on June 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
To address the racism angle: are you referring to OKCupid's "Are you a racist? Yes/No" question? That question can be interpreted in different ways. I could see someone answering "Yes" and meaning "Yes, I admit I have some socially inculcated biases that I need to work on. I'm not so naive as to think I don't see color" rather than "Yup, I'm a racist and proud of it."
posted by Mila at 5:38 PM on June 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
Most of the time that I see someone being as picky as you in choosing someone to possibly date -- not marry, not even have a relationship with -- just, ask out, it means that that person has serious self-esteem issues and is trying to pre-dump everyone who might dump them, but first. Winnowing the dating pool with a bunch of theoretically reasonable individual criteria makes it easy to reject each person who actually manages to fulfill them, because that's only like a dozen people, and it's easy to find eight "stoppers" and send four half-assed messages to people who you wouldn't really go out with anyway for some other reason.
So get over yourself. Therapy? Sure. Or something. But quit acting like your criteria make you a fundamentally better human being (seriously, Santa and heroin?) and use Crazy Blind Date or something like it. Just get out there and date women instead of weighing profiles like every message is a marriage proposal.
posted by Etrigan at 5:49 PM on June 8, 2013 [14 favorites]
So get over yourself. Therapy? Sure. Or something. But quit acting like your criteria make you a fundamentally better human being (seriously, Santa and heroin?) and use Crazy Blind Date or something like it. Just get out there and date women instead of weighing profiles like every message is a marriage proposal.
posted by Etrigan at 5:49 PM on June 8, 2013 [14 favorites]
You sound like you have some untreated depression going on. In fact, it sounds crippling. You should try seeing a mental health professional.
You also sound like you're taking this too seriously; likely because of the depression. A profile is not a person, and a person is not a profile. Rule out deal breakers, yes; but don't exclude a person because you're not vibing who you fear they might be based on a profile.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:55 PM on June 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
You also sound like you're taking this too seriously; likely because of the depression. A profile is not a person, and a person is not a profile. Rule out deal breakers, yes; but don't exclude a person because you're not vibing who you fear they might be based on a profile.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:55 PM on June 8, 2013 [6 favorites]
I recommend you read the The Rosie Project.
posted by AnnaRat at 6:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by AnnaRat at 6:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Rigid and inflexible thinking isn't attractive. Sometimes we tell ourselves we're standing for something when we are really just afraid of change or being wrong and refuse to even consider it for a second, because deep down we know our entire worldview will collapse.
The world isn't going to change, so you must. If you continue your current course of judging others for not living up to your arbitrary rules, you're sentencing yourself to a life of being unhappy and worst of all, being extremely dishonest with yourself as to why.
For example, I'm willing to bet you didn't even meet the very nice girl you reference in your post. You never even gave her a chance.
In conclusion, I would beg you to reconsider your current philosophy of treating talking to people on OKCupid as a marriage proposal. As the saying goes, don't take yourself so seriously. Nobody else does.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 6:08 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
The world isn't going to change, so you must. If you continue your current course of judging others for not living up to your arbitrary rules, you're sentencing yourself to a life of being unhappy and worst of all, being extremely dishonest with yourself as to why.
For example, I'm willing to bet you didn't even meet the very nice girl you reference in your post. You never even gave her a chance.
In conclusion, I would beg you to reconsider your current philosophy of treating talking to people on OKCupid as a marriage proposal. As the saying goes, don't take yourself so seriously. Nobody else does.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 6:08 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
At this point, people have covered almost every point very well, and you have plenty to think about with the above comments. So I'll just add one more thing. Not only have you limited your criteria to the point where you see no possible matches (after just a couple weeks!), but then you add this:
posted by John Cohen at 6:11 PM on June 8, 2013 [11 favorites]
I had no one to send messages to and I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why.Now, you can make your points about how your various criteria are all really important (no kids, no religion, must love video games, etc.). But the above point has nothing to do with any of that! If you're opposed to anyone messaging you first, it sounds like you're saying you'd turn down your dream girl over a mere breach of protocol — with you being the one who creates the secret protocol. That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. When you asked your previous question, it seemed like the issue was pretty much: here's someone who's new to OKCupid and has to work on how to set the website's filters narrowly enough to stay true to his values but broadly enough to find people. But with this follow-up question, it seems like there's an underlying issue that goes way beyond that. You've come up with a theory that would allow you to summarily reject even the rare, occasional woman you meets every one of your criteria — as long as she's so brash as to perceive this compatibility and act on it. And you put your profile up for, what, just a couple weeks (?) before taking it down in resignation. That suggests you're not making a good-faith effort, you're just making the minimal effort to be able to justify your declaration that there's no one out there for you. If that's what you want to do, that's up to you, but you should know: that's not really giving dating a chance. I don't understand why you'd take that approach, considering what you said in your previous post ("I do very badly though want one-person intimacy. I am so tired of living without an intimate partner and not being physically close to anyone").
posted by John Cohen at 6:11 PM on June 8, 2013 [11 favorites]
You sound incredibly isolated. Do you really like anyone at all? I'm asking because it sounds like you're intent on finding reasons not to get close to anybody anywhere, whether on OkCupid or anywhere else.
And this:
I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why.
That is not sound logic. Do you actually think you've seen all the women on there? That isn't likely, especially since you live in a densely populated area. New people join all the time, people change their criteria and might not have come up in your last search, etc. The pool is changing constantly.
As for the thing about women being racist or supporting eugenics, ehh... I'm thinking, in most cases, there is probably more to it than that. If there were women on there that you found potentially likable otherwise, it could be worth asking them to explain the racism thing, to see what their thoughts really are on that subject. It might not be what you think.
Regarding the OKC experience in general, as a woman, I will say that I wasn't interested in many men on there, either from their profiles or their messages. Most profiles I read were not appealing to me. There were only a few men, out of tons that messaged me, who had much of anything to say that interested me to the point of replying to them. But I ended up meeting the man who would become my boyfriend on there, so for me it worked out.
But how you come across here is that you kind of just don't like people. You are lonely, but you don't sound like you actually want to get to know anybody who isn't already exactly like you. You are limiting yourself severely. Your girlfriend doesn't have to like video games, as long as she doesn't think you're an idiot for liking video games. Think of this: a woman who really isn't into playing video games might introduce you to other fun activities you might enjoy, but you would've never known about without meeting someone who is interested in things that you never gave much thought to.
posted by wondermouse at 6:15 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
And this:
I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why.
That is not sound logic. Do you actually think you've seen all the women on there? That isn't likely, especially since you live in a densely populated area. New people join all the time, people change their criteria and might not have come up in your last search, etc. The pool is changing constantly.
As for the thing about women being racist or supporting eugenics, ehh... I'm thinking, in most cases, there is probably more to it than that. If there were women on there that you found potentially likable otherwise, it could be worth asking them to explain the racism thing, to see what their thoughts really are on that subject. It might not be what you think.
Regarding the OKC experience in general, as a woman, I will say that I wasn't interested in many men on there, either from their profiles or their messages. Most profiles I read were not appealing to me. There were only a few men, out of tons that messaged me, who had much of anything to say that interested me to the point of replying to them. But I ended up meeting the man who would become my boyfriend on there, so for me it worked out.
But how you come across here is that you kind of just don't like people. You are lonely, but you don't sound like you actually want to get to know anybody who isn't already exactly like you. You are limiting yourself severely. Your girlfriend doesn't have to like video games, as long as she doesn't think you're an idiot for liking video games. Think of this: a woman who really isn't into playing video games might introduce you to other fun activities you might enjoy, but you would've never known about without meeting someone who is interested in things that you never gave much thought to.
posted by wondermouse at 6:15 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
One more thought: Diversify. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. "Initial messages sent by me on OKCupid" is just one basket. We can't see your messages — maybe there's something about them that's a little off and isn't going to get responses even when you do find your (seemingly) perfect match. Or maybe there's something about the whole website that doesn't quite jibe with something about you; try another website. Explore. You can still have convictions, and protect yourself from getting into a situation that's inimical to those convictions, without closing yourself off from every human woman on the planet.
posted by John Cohen at 7:07 PM on June 8, 2013
posted by John Cohen at 7:07 PM on June 8, 2013
Hey I just wanted to say that, based on your two AskMe questions, you sound kind of like me. I mean, I'm an introverted guy who is kind of weird and likes video games and reading and doesn't drink much. When I was single I also set up all kinds of arbitrary criteria in my head for a partner and I never got anywhere. I met my wife completely by chance; we were both traveling in the same foreign country. At the time we just thought it was a summer romance, but we ended up getting married.
My wife doesn't drink at all and is also introverted and I think we're a great match, but you know, she doesn't care at all about video games. She has zero interest in them. Which is fine, she does her own thing while I'm playing video games. You don't need to both have the exact same hobbies. In fact, video games is probably one of the easiest hobbies not to share with your real life friends since you can just play online with random people anyway.
I guess what I want to say is, had I only had my wife's Facebook profile to go off of, I probably wouldn't have been super compelled either. People are usually very different in person from how they present themselves online.
posted by pravit at 7:45 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
My wife doesn't drink at all and is also introverted and I think we're a great match, but you know, she doesn't care at all about video games. She has zero interest in them. Which is fine, she does her own thing while I'm playing video games. You don't need to both have the exact same hobbies. In fact, video games is probably one of the easiest hobbies not to share with your real life friends since you can just play online with random people anyway.
I guess what I want to say is, had I only had my wife's Facebook profile to go off of, I probably wouldn't have been super compelled either. People are usually very different in person from how they present themselves online.
posted by pravit at 7:45 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sorry for coming back for round two. But just try a thought experiment. Obviously there aren't many people in this world you will really relate to. I'm the same way. But what if, in doing all this filtering, you are throwing away those few chances? In other words, you seem focused on the potential downsides of each person, but have you considered the upside you could be missing out on? It's like lottery tickets. Why not buy as many as you can if all they cost is your time?
posted by pravit at 8:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by pravit at 8:06 PM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
I have no long-term plan though other than taking my mind off things for the next 50 years. I have no close friends and am distant with family.
Ouch. That's a really painful place to be, so, of course you're lonely. But, paradoxically, a girlfriend is not going to fix that. And, believe me, if that really sums up your frame of mind, that's what is coming across to women, and that accounts for their lack of interest, moreso than any differences in stated interests or attitudes.
What do you want out of life, just for you? (And "I want a girlfriend" is not a legitimate answer.) There must be something that you care about, something you actually want to do, other than take your mind off things. Hell, it doesn't even have to be long-term, or ambitious, just something. And if you start doing that thing, you might actually feel good about that; and then you might even make a friend or two. I think this is actually the harder question you might need to ask yourself. I am sorry if this comes across as not actually helping answer the question as you asked it... but this honestly seems to me to be the crux of the matter.
posted by fikri at 8:21 PM on June 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
Ouch. That's a really painful place to be, so, of course you're lonely. But, paradoxically, a girlfriend is not going to fix that. And, believe me, if that really sums up your frame of mind, that's what is coming across to women, and that accounts for their lack of interest, moreso than any differences in stated interests or attitudes.
What do you want out of life, just for you? (And "I want a girlfriend" is not a legitimate answer.) There must be something that you care about, something you actually want to do, other than take your mind off things. Hell, it doesn't even have to be long-term, or ambitious, just something. And if you start doing that thing, you might actually feel good about that; and then you might even make a friend or two. I think this is actually the harder question you might need to ask yourself. I am sorry if this comes across as not actually helping answer the question as you asked it... but this honestly seems to me to be the crux of the matter.
posted by fikri at 8:21 PM on June 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
If you really wanted a girlfriend, I don't think you'd be throwing all these imaginary, immature, and downright flawed obstacles in your way to the extent that you are. You're self-sabotaging, and it's making you into a pretty undateable person.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 8:30 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 8:30 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
When you are busy in a relationship and creating a life together, trust me, you won't care about video games!
Did I write in your last question that you don't sound ready to date because you are not ready for the significant lifestyle changes a partner will bring into your life? Well, I've written it now.
Therapy. You're not ready for dating yet.
posted by jbenben at 9:18 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Did I write in your last question that you don't sound ready to date because you are not ready for the significant lifestyle changes a partner will bring into your life? Well, I've written it now.
Therapy. You're not ready for dating yet.
posted by jbenben at 9:18 PM on June 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Your posts convey unhappiness. I think you can use some attitude adjustment- I wouldn't do it just for the sake of finding a partner but for you general well being as well. I am also addressing some of the things you mentioned in the previous question, which I think might be relevant regarding your approach in general.
I also think the woman will need to be fairly introverted herself, otherwise I don't think she would understand or trust a man in his 30s with no social calendar
Your logic beats me. Its fine to want to be with an introvert but to assume that otherwise she wouldn't "understand or trust a man..." makes no sense at all. Maybe trust the intelligence of people who pass your filters to make up their own minds and not think for them?
I have very few pictures of myself ... A profile with only self-shots seems sad. I've considered hiring someone to take some pictures but having only photos from what is obviously a photo shoot seems sad too.
Either have a photo or don't. Thinking its "sad" either way for the profile is over-analysis and obsessing over things like a fairly young adult.
There are less than 10 women on OKCupid nearby who pass my filters and who otherwise seem vaguely suitable. This is a really low number.
That is actually a rather good number if you are really specific about what you want in a person and relationship.
Let's say none of them work out. What is plan B? OKCupid search worldwide? Meetups? I think the odds of finding even one possible qualifying partner in a meetup group of 20-30 semi-random people is incredibly low. I'd have to churn through a ton of these and turn each one into a speed-dating event. That sounds awful. I don't know what else to do though.
What is this- a search for finding a PERSON to have a relationship with or searching for a Cyber Monday deal? Think about how you are approaching this. No wonder you don't SEE people, and I can see why they would not want to see you.
Sometimes the questions/profile showed a clear mismatch, nothing evil but it just wouldn't work. They're obsessed with travel and I'm not. I'm really into video games and they are really not. Mostly though the profiles were just not compelling to me, even with a really high match/friend percentage and no red flags.
So you can really portend your future relationship success based on match questions and interests? The problem is not so much the difference in interests but that you think those are deal breakers. The second problem is your expectations. Its fine to have standards/requirements like "don't want kids" but when the women need to play video games to get you interested then the problem lies with you, not them.
Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started.
That is a very good reason to get started.
I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it. (I'm certain my own profile met this criteria.) Of the ones I liked, some had red flags. One woman, I was very interested but she was borderline asexual, which is not for me.
Its interesting how you like women who are "weird" or maybe who you find challenging but then turn them down for one reason or another- whether real or just in your mind. The latter is painfully obvious and I suggest you work on why you are coming across as a very difficult to please, high-maintenance, wouldn't-date-him (sad but true!) person yourself. Again, knowing the difference between standards and expectations, and having some self-awareness will go a long way and you seem to be lacking both.
Also, regarding borderline asexual- do you know that for certain (evidence ?) or is it one of your many interpretations of a situation? I can absolutely imagine an introvert or a more reserved person (that you want to date on one hand) not flirting/lusting all over the strange men they have just only begun to date- and now they are labeled "borderline asexual" for that? This may or may not be the right interpretation from the limited info provided but can you see how one trait can be viewed as both positive and negative depending on how you see and interpret it?
I reject the notion that my "restrictions" are extreme or that I should just be grateful to find anyone who matches them who'll have me. To me they are just minimal criteria, compatibility requirements in the most basic sense.
Just like you reject the women?
I have not read the responses to your previous post but "don't want kids" and the like are what I would call deal breaker standards, and all else that your posts are full of (video games, asexual, not-an-introvert-wouldn't-trust-a-man etc) to be ridiculous expectations.
Look, women, and men for that matter, are all people. They come with different positive AND negative qualities. You pick five positive things that are a must-have for you and you pick the negative qualities that you can live with. That's called a real life adult relationship, not settling down. Settling down is when you are really, truly bothered by the negative qualities and you still are in a relationship with the person despite that it bothers you and you cannot for any number of reasons (including "very painful to do") break it off. Your picture of who you want to be with is so well defined that the only one who can fit this model is the one in your head.
the odds that any particular woman would work for me are so astronomically low that there's no point in trying.
There is nothing in your posts about you that indicates that you are this special.
I don't know what to do. I'd love to hear some stories or advice from people who are like me or who felt like this but then things got better that didn't involve them just giving up and settling.
Again, you may be an introvert but you aren't a rare sample of the species. A lot of us are social introverts and we all suffer for it.
Interestingly, you don't ask the question "is there anything I am doing wrong". The things that are wrong are all outside- other people. You expect that somehow "things got better" on their own- something you have zero control over- instead of changing what you can- yourself and your attitude.
I would suggest learning about standards, expectations and being reflective. And, CBT if you choose to work it out with a therapist. Actually taking this post and the previous one may not be a bad idea at all.
Before I first glanced your post I was thinking that maybe you need to try a different dating site but when I read more carefully I felt what jbenben summed up so concisely- I am not sure you are ready to be dating or maybe even be in an adult relationship. To be honest, I am curious whether you broke up with your partner in the relationship you mention in the previous post, and I can only imagine why.
posted by xm at 10:28 PM on June 8, 2013 [9 favorites]
I also think the woman will need to be fairly introverted herself, otherwise I don't think she would understand or trust a man in his 30s with no social calendar
Your logic beats me. Its fine to want to be with an introvert but to assume that otherwise she wouldn't "understand or trust a man..." makes no sense at all. Maybe trust the intelligence of people who pass your filters to make up their own minds and not think for them?
I have very few pictures of myself ... A profile with only self-shots seems sad. I've considered hiring someone to take some pictures but having only photos from what is obviously a photo shoot seems sad too.
Either have a photo or don't. Thinking its "sad" either way for the profile is over-analysis and obsessing over things like a fairly young adult.
There are less than 10 women on OKCupid nearby who pass my filters and who otherwise seem vaguely suitable. This is a really low number.
That is actually a rather good number if you are really specific about what you want in a person and relationship.
Let's say none of them work out. What is plan B? OKCupid search worldwide? Meetups? I think the odds of finding even one possible qualifying partner in a meetup group of 20-30 semi-random people is incredibly low. I'd have to churn through a ton of these and turn each one into a speed-dating event. That sounds awful. I don't know what else to do though.
What is this- a search for finding a PERSON to have a relationship with or searching for a Cyber Monday deal? Think about how you are approaching this. No wonder you don't SEE people, and I can see why they would not want to see you.
Sometimes the questions/profile showed a clear mismatch, nothing evil but it just wouldn't work. They're obsessed with travel and I'm not. I'm really into video games and they are really not. Mostly though the profiles were just not compelling to me, even with a really high match/friend percentage and no red flags.
So you can really portend your future relationship success based on match questions and interests? The problem is not so much the difference in interests but that you think those are deal breakers. The second problem is your expectations. Its fine to have standards/requirements like "don't want kids" but when the women need to play video games to get you interested then the problem lies with you, not them.
Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started.
That is a very good reason to get started.
I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it. (I'm certain my own profile met this criteria.) Of the ones I liked, some had red flags. One woman, I was very interested but she was borderline asexual, which is not for me.
Its interesting how you like women who are "weird" or maybe who you find challenging but then turn them down for one reason or another- whether real or just in your mind. The latter is painfully obvious and I suggest you work on why you are coming across as a very difficult to please, high-maintenance, wouldn't-date-him (sad but true!) person yourself. Again, knowing the difference between standards and expectations, and having some self-awareness will go a long way and you seem to be lacking both.
Also, regarding borderline asexual- do you know that for certain (evidence ?) or is it one of your many interpretations of a situation? I can absolutely imagine an introvert or a more reserved person (that you want to date on one hand) not flirting/lusting all over the strange men they have just only begun to date- and now they are labeled "borderline asexual" for that? This may or may not be the right interpretation from the limited info provided but can you see how one trait can be viewed as both positive and negative depending on how you see and interpret it?
I reject the notion that my "restrictions" are extreme or that I should just be grateful to find anyone who matches them who'll have me. To me they are just minimal criteria, compatibility requirements in the most basic sense.
Just like you reject the women?
I have not read the responses to your previous post but "don't want kids" and the like are what I would call deal breaker standards, and all else that your posts are full of (video games, asexual, not-an-introvert-wouldn't-trust-a-man etc) to be ridiculous expectations.
Look, women, and men for that matter, are all people. They come with different positive AND negative qualities. You pick five positive things that are a must-have for you and you pick the negative qualities that you can live with. That's called a real life adult relationship, not settling down. Settling down is when you are really, truly bothered by the negative qualities and you still are in a relationship with the person despite that it bothers you and you cannot for any number of reasons (including "very painful to do") break it off. Your picture of who you want to be with is so well defined that the only one who can fit this model is the one in your head.
the odds that any particular woman would work for me are so astronomically low that there's no point in trying.
There is nothing in your posts about you that indicates that you are this special.
I don't know what to do. I'd love to hear some stories or advice from people who are like me or who felt like this but then things got better that didn't involve them just giving up and settling.
Again, you may be an introvert but you aren't a rare sample of the species. A lot of us are social introverts and we all suffer for it.
Interestingly, you don't ask the question "is there anything I am doing wrong". The things that are wrong are all outside- other people. You expect that somehow "things got better" on their own- something you have zero control over- instead of changing what you can- yourself and your attitude.
I would suggest learning about standards, expectations and being reflective. And, CBT if you choose to work it out with a therapist. Actually taking this post and the previous one may not be a bad idea at all.
Before I first glanced your post I was thinking that maybe you need to try a different dating site but when I read more carefully I felt what jbenben summed up so concisely- I am not sure you are ready to be dating or maybe even be in an adult relationship. To be honest, I am curious whether you broke up with your partner in the relationship you mention in the previous post, and I can only imagine why.
posted by xm at 10:28 PM on June 8, 2013 [9 favorites]
OP, I hope you're fine despite the VERY tough love you've been given this time around. You see, there is a distinct change in tone between your last ask.me and this one. Last time it sounded like someone who prefers solitude, who is content to have limited social interaction but wishes for a love relationship. Last time you said: "I like myself. I have plenty of solitary things I like to do. I'm not looking for a bunch of friends."
This time though you write about loneliness and giving up and how hopeless everything is that you want to avoid it for the next 50 yrs. That's pretty dramatic after 2 or 3 weeks of trying. I hope you get to the bottom of why you are having such an intense reaction. Good luck!
posted by travelwithcats at 2:05 AM on June 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
This time though you write about loneliness and giving up and how hopeless everything is that you want to avoid it for the next 50 yrs. That's pretty dramatic after 2 or 3 weeks of trying. I hope you get to the bottom of why you are having such an intense reaction. Good luck!
posted by travelwithcats at 2:05 AM on June 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's okay to have deal-breakers such as yours, but you need to recognise that they will, of course, make finding someone harder than it otherwise would be. Also, some of those deal-breakers would be less of an obstacle in different locations. "No religion", for example, might be a stumbling block in many parts of America but in the UK and much of Europe you're more likely to get a "well, of course not" reaction to that. The "no drinking", on the other hand, would be a problem in the UK. :-) "No kids" is probably going to be a struggle anywhere because most people do seem to like to breed. Mystifies me too, mate, but somehow I managed to find a couple of women who didn't want that either, and I'm certainly no star in the pairing-up stakes. I spent half of my twenties celibate too, and not because I wanted to be.
So what I'm saying here is that you might want to consider relocating if you're not finding what you want locally. Or get into a long-distance relationship with a like-minded soul (I've done that too) but you ought to be prepared to relocate if you manage that and it works out.
By the way, I'm with you on the no kids, no religion (but not the drinking) and yet I've been in a relationship for almost fifteen years with a woman who has three kids (all grown up now). When we got together the youngest was 6, the next 8 and the eldest...ummm... about fifteen, I think. It wasn't a problem because they were at their dad's a lot of the time and so I was seen more as "that bloke who's there when we're at mom's" rather than any sort of father figure. They didn't expect much from me, which suited me very well. So maybe don't rule out women with kids from previous relationships because you may find they're not around enough to be a problem.
posted by Decani at 2:39 AM on June 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
So what I'm saying here is that you might want to consider relocating if you're not finding what you want locally. Or get into a long-distance relationship with a like-minded soul (I've done that too) but you ought to be prepared to relocate if you manage that and it works out.
By the way, I'm with you on the no kids, no religion (but not the drinking) and yet I've been in a relationship for almost fifteen years with a woman who has three kids (all grown up now). When we got together the youngest was 6, the next 8 and the eldest...ummm... about fifteen, I think. It wasn't a problem because they were at their dad's a lot of the time and so I was seen more as "that bloke who's there when we're at mom's" rather than any sort of father figure. They didn't expect much from me, which suited me very well. So maybe don't rule out women with kids from previous relationships because you may find they're not around enough to be a problem.
posted by Decani at 2:39 AM on June 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
RE people seeming to be really into travel: I think sometimes people have a hard time thinking of hobbies, I know that I do. People are often so busy with work/school/keeping their house clean/meeting friends to just hang out/etc that there isn't a lot of time or energy to put into my one defining hobby that I'm obsessed about. so saying you like to travel is just one of those bland "everyone says that" things in profiles. like "i love to laugh." anyway, you can learn to read past the fluff and get to the core of whether you'd like to meet someone or not.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:19 AM on June 9, 2013
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:19 AM on June 9, 2013
1. My partner is a raging atheist introvert. I'm not. We do just fine. We complement each other. This can work out.
2. For the love of all that is good in the world, do not assume because someone has not listed something on their profile, it isn't there.
I'm a weird nerd. I love video games. For the sake of your question, I'm going to go dig up my old-as-shit OKCupid profile. Video games are not mentioned anywhere. The only thing about any games whatsoever listed is when I had the brilliant idea of playing online Dominion with potential dates so we'd be doing something while we chatted.
But you would have no idea that I was a nerd from my profile, because I was trying to cast a wide net.
Consider that others may be doing the same.
posted by corb at 8:25 AM on June 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
2. For the love of all that is good in the world, do not assume because someone has not listed something on their profile, it isn't there.
I'm a weird nerd. I love video games. For the sake of your question, I'm going to go dig up my old-as-shit OKCupid profile. Video games are not mentioned anywhere. The only thing about any games whatsoever listed is when I had the brilliant idea of playing online Dominion with potential dates so we'd be doing something while we chatted.
But you would have no idea that I was a nerd from my profile, because I was trying to cast a wide net.
Consider that others may be doing the same.
posted by corb at 8:25 AM on June 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also, logging in, I see that OKCupid has a new feature called "Crazy Blind Date" where you can pick a time and place and go on a blind date. Go do that. Meet actual women and see how they compare with their profile. Have a good time. Gain confidence.
posted by corb at 8:28 AM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 8:28 AM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hi! As a weird geeky female type person with an OkCupid profile, I have to say - you're not giving things NEARLY enough time. For instance, if you had messaged me last week, you would now be totally out of luck. You took down your profile entirely? Yeah, I log in maybe once a week, but more often once every two weeks. And when I do, I have a lot of messages to sort through and respond to (or not respond to, as is more usually the case).
I'm sure I'm not unique in not logging in constantly - for one thing, every time I sign on to the site I get a couple more of what I think of as "junk messages" to have to filter out ("hi u r so hawt blah blah blah talk to me nao plz") and, well, I have a busy and full life. It's a busy and full life I wouldn't necessarily mind adding new nifty people to, and that's why I have a profile at all.
I'm also not unique in taking a while to respond, especially to the good messages I do get (messages that ask questions, are efforts to strike up a conversation, and actually seem to bounce off of anything of substance in my profile, for instance). Some people are slow - just like it takes you a while to choose what people to write to, and to craft a message to them, responding can take a while from the other end, too.
Be patient. Way, way, way more patient.
posted by lriG rorriM at 10:24 AM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm sure I'm not unique in not logging in constantly - for one thing, every time I sign on to the site I get a couple more of what I think of as "junk messages" to have to filter out ("hi u r so hawt blah blah blah talk to me nao plz") and, well, I have a busy and full life. It's a busy and full life I wouldn't necessarily mind adding new nifty people to, and that's why I have a profile at all.
I'm also not unique in taking a while to respond, especially to the good messages I do get (messages that ask questions, are efforts to strike up a conversation, and actually seem to bounce off of anything of substance in my profile, for instance). Some people are slow - just like it takes you a while to choose what people to write to, and to craft a message to them, responding can take a while from the other end, too.
Be patient. Way, way, way more patient.
posted by lriG rorriM at 10:24 AM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your questions make it sound like you are a very rigid person. I don't think this is a good stance to take if you want a relationship. From your questions, I can't even tell if you really want a relationship or just think you should have one because it's what society expects.
What do you hope to get from a relationship? Why do you want one? It doesn't sound as though you like people.
I tend to be introverted and picky when it comes to men. However, after being in several long term relationships, I have come to enjoy my single life. I still use OKC and go on dates, but I have decided I don't want to give up the perks of my single life unless I meet someone with whom I truly click. You might want to consider the idea of accepting that you enjoy your life as is and that it's OK if you don't ever have a relationship.
Lastly, I meet most of your qualifications, but even if I met them all, I wouldn't want to date someone with such rigid standards. Even if a woman did meet your standards, the rigidity of your standards could very likely be a big turn off.
posted by parakeetdog at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2013
What do you hope to get from a relationship? Why do you want one? It doesn't sound as though you like people.
I tend to be introverted and picky when it comes to men. However, after being in several long term relationships, I have come to enjoy my single life. I still use OKC and go on dates, but I have decided I don't want to give up the perks of my single life unless I meet someone with whom I truly click. You might want to consider the idea of accepting that you enjoy your life as is and that it's OK if you don't ever have a relationship.
Lastly, I meet most of your qualifications, but even if I met them all, I wouldn't want to date someone with such rigid standards. Even if a woman did meet your standards, the rigidity of your standards could very likely be a big turn off.
posted by parakeetdog at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2013
Deal breakers are deal breakers. There is nothing wrong with having deal breakers. There is something wrong with having preferences and calling them deal breakers or taking a deal breaker and turning them up to 11.
You are perfectly within your rights to want to date someone who is an atheist. However, I've been an atheist for longer than you have been alive and when I did on-line dating I didn't specify a religious preference. I listed myself as an atheist (no wishy-washy "spiritual, but not religious" or "agnostic" for me) and I figured that anyone who was okay with that was probably not religious enough to bother me.
You want someone who doesn't drink. You haven't said why. If, for example, you are a recovering alcoholic and can't be around someone who drinks, then I totally get you. Ditto, if you don't want to be around someone whose idea of fun is six hour bar crawls a couple of times a week. I'd urge you to consider if someone who likes a glass of wine with dinner is really unacceptable or just not perfect.
Taking your example of Santa believers - if everyone believed in Santa and I didn't, then I'd probably start dividing people up into the "Santa obsessed" and "believes in Santa, but isn't stupid about it", and start looking for dates in the second category. Yeah, I'd prefer someone who didn't actually believe in Santa, but I'll settle for someone who isn't completely batshit about it.
You are into video games and they aren't. Who gives a shit? The only thing that matters is if they don't like the fact that you play video games. If they are fine with you playing and will do something else while you kill orcs, then what's the problem?
They like to travel? Everyone puts that on their profile. Maybe it means something and maybe it doesn't. If it just means that they like to take a vacation every year and visit somewhere, is that really a problem? If they are globe-trotters and work six months of every year so that they can fund their travel for the other six months, then that probably won't be a good match, but that is the extreme end of "likes to travel".
A couple of other things (which have been covered already, but they bear repeating):
I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why.
Yeah, like you hadn't seen their profile or you saw it and figured "They wouldn't be interested in me". I'll be blunt - being a straight guy on most dating websites means that you are up against some rough odds unless you are so mind-meltingly good looking that no-one can resist. If a woman who doesn't seem completely horrible approaches you first then you say "YES!". Fuck it. It's meeting for coffee. Maybe it won't work. It probably won't work. But maybe it will or maybe she'll say "Hey, I know we aren't good match, but I think you'd love my friend Amy".
And that's another thing. You are a guy trying to attract a woman. Suck to be you, but you are going to have to send out dozens of messages to get a response (and that response might be "Thanks, but I don't think we'll be a good match"). If you aren't prepared to do that then on-line dating is not for you. If you aren't prepared to spend some months at it then on-line dating is not for you.
FWIW - On-line dating was not for me. I met Mrs. Lurgi by other means.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:22 PM on June 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
You are perfectly within your rights to want to date someone who is an atheist. However, I've been an atheist for longer than you have been alive and when I did on-line dating I didn't specify a religious preference. I listed myself as an atheist (no wishy-washy "spiritual, but not religious" or "agnostic" for me) and I figured that anyone who was okay with that was probably not religious enough to bother me.
You want someone who doesn't drink. You haven't said why. If, for example, you are a recovering alcoholic and can't be around someone who drinks, then I totally get you. Ditto, if you don't want to be around someone whose idea of fun is six hour bar crawls a couple of times a week. I'd urge you to consider if someone who likes a glass of wine with dinner is really unacceptable or just not perfect.
Taking your example of Santa believers - if everyone believed in Santa and I didn't, then I'd probably start dividing people up into the "Santa obsessed" and "believes in Santa, but isn't stupid about it", and start looking for dates in the second category. Yeah, I'd prefer someone who didn't actually believe in Santa, but I'll settle for someone who isn't completely batshit about it.
You are into video games and they aren't. Who gives a shit? The only thing that matters is if they don't like the fact that you play video games. If they are fine with you playing and will do something else while you kill orcs, then what's the problem?
They like to travel? Everyone puts that on their profile. Maybe it means something and maybe it doesn't. If it just means that they like to take a vacation every year and visit somewhere, is that really a problem? If they are globe-trotters and work six months of every year so that they can fund their travel for the other six months, then that probably won't be a good match, but that is the extreme end of "likes to travel".
A couple of other things (which have been covered already, but they bear repeating):
I didn't want women messaging me first -- nothing wrong with that by itself but if I haven't messaged you already then there is probably a good reason why.
Yeah, like you hadn't seen their profile or you saw it and figured "They wouldn't be interested in me". I'll be blunt - being a straight guy on most dating websites means that you are up against some rough odds unless you are so mind-meltingly good looking that no-one can resist. If a woman who doesn't seem completely horrible approaches you first then you say "YES!". Fuck it. It's meeting for coffee. Maybe it won't work. It probably won't work. But maybe it will or maybe she'll say "Hey, I know we aren't good match, but I think you'd love my friend Amy".
And that's another thing. You are a guy trying to attract a woman. Suck to be you, but you are going to have to send out dozens of messages to get a response (and that response might be "Thanks, but I don't think we'll be a good match"). If you aren't prepared to do that then on-line dating is not for you. If you aren't prepared to spend some months at it then on-line dating is not for you.
FWIW - On-line dating was not for me. I met Mrs. Lurgi by other means.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:22 PM on June 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
Met the current, and last,
1. Friend
2. Partner
3. LOVER
online.
It was my last attempt as it was for her also. First meeting in April, something clicked, we got back to her place and just KISSED, whew! I lived 50 miles away, long, hard drive home. Cut to now, she lives with me, we are a pair in every way except when we disagree. We are an older couple, 7 marriages and 7 divorces between us .
Life is not smooth as glass, there are lows, there are highs, I am so happy now!
Unless you try it won't happen. Live for now, be yourself, fire away. I did, met a few women, a few girls, finally met a LADY!
posted by raildr at 6:43 PM on June 9, 2013
1. Friend
2. Partner
3. LOVER
online.
It was my last attempt as it was for her also. First meeting in April, something clicked, we got back to her place and just KISSED, whew! I lived 50 miles away, long, hard drive home. Cut to now, she lives with me, we are a pair in every way except when we disagree. We are an older couple, 7 marriages and 7 divorces between us .
Life is not smooth as glass, there are lows, there are highs, I am so happy now!
Unless you try it won't happen. Live for now, be yourself, fire away. I did, met a few women, a few girls, finally met a LADY!
posted by raildr at 6:43 PM on June 9, 2013
"In the questions, a surprising number of these liberal, urban women were racists or supported eugenics."
What the huh? I have yet to encounter this even ONCE. If you're constantly finding yourself meeting racists and women who support eugenics, that says a lot about you. It says you're doing something that connects you with people like that. Before you blow off my comment and think "Yeah right" keep in mind that I'm a single guy who enjoys dating, and my tolerance for racism/sexism and homophobia is pretty much zero. I'm an urban guy and I'm telling you, I've never had that be a problem.
Eugenics?! What kind of conversations are you having where that even comes up?! And why are you having those conversations with potential dates?! Holy cow.
As I read your two questions, I can't help assuming you're an extreme person. Taking an all or nothing approach is the fast lane to nothing.
Just because you're an atheist, does it really mean you can't date an agnostic? Just because you don't drink, does it really mean you can't date a woman who does?
You're trying too hard to be difficult.
Your extreme personality is drawing extreme people to you, and that's leaving you frustrated.
Let go of the bullshit that doesn't matter.
Imagine 20 years down the road, you're sick. Who do you want at your bedside? Someone who loves you, or someone who perfectly fits a list of yes/no check-boxes?
You are creating your own problem.
Stop it.
Dude, I guarantee I'm more atheist than you are. I'm so atheist, I don't even believe in THAT, but my beliefs are my own. Will I go on a date with a woman whose beliefs differ from mine? Absolutely. Going on a date doesn't mean OMFG It's Marriage! It just means I'm going to hang out with her and get to know her. Maybe, over time, we'll find out our beliefs are too far apart. Oh well. Or maybe we'll find out our beliefs aren't that far apart. Or maybe our differences won't matter. Sometimes, they don't.
You have two basic problems:
#1. You're too extreme, and it's causing you frustration and loneliness.
#2. You're more interesting in weeding people out than counting people in, which leads you to being alone. Quit looking for reasons to say no and start looking for reasons to say yes. Quit treating people like numbers on a spreadsheet listing available options and start treating people as human beings. The more you seek reasons to connect rather than reasons to discard, the more neat people you'll realize there are to connect with.
P.S. Seriously... figure out why you're constantly meeting racists and people who are into eugenics, because that's not normal. I don't even know if I've ever met anyone who is into eugenics, and I've probably been dating for a decade longer than you have.
posted by 2oh1 at 7:50 PM on June 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
What the huh? I have yet to encounter this even ONCE. If you're constantly finding yourself meeting racists and women who support eugenics, that says a lot about you. It says you're doing something that connects you with people like that. Before you blow off my comment and think "Yeah right" keep in mind that I'm a single guy who enjoys dating, and my tolerance for racism/sexism and homophobia is pretty much zero. I'm an urban guy and I'm telling you, I've never had that be a problem.
Eugenics?! What kind of conversations are you having where that even comes up?! And why are you having those conversations with potential dates?! Holy cow.
As I read your two questions, I can't help assuming you're an extreme person. Taking an all or nothing approach is the fast lane to nothing.
Just because you're an atheist, does it really mean you can't date an agnostic? Just because you don't drink, does it really mean you can't date a woman who does?
You're trying too hard to be difficult.
Your extreme personality is drawing extreme people to you, and that's leaving you frustrated.
Let go of the bullshit that doesn't matter.
Imagine 20 years down the road, you're sick. Who do you want at your bedside? Someone who loves you, or someone who perfectly fits a list of yes/no check-boxes?
You are creating your own problem.
Stop it.
Dude, I guarantee I'm more atheist than you are. I'm so atheist, I don't even believe in THAT, but my beliefs are my own. Will I go on a date with a woman whose beliefs differ from mine? Absolutely. Going on a date doesn't mean OMFG It's Marriage! It just means I'm going to hang out with her and get to know her. Maybe, over time, we'll find out our beliefs are too far apart. Oh well. Or maybe we'll find out our beliefs aren't that far apart. Or maybe our differences won't matter. Sometimes, they don't.
You have two basic problems:
#1. You're too extreme, and it's causing you frustration and loneliness.
#2. You're more interesting in weeding people out than counting people in, which leads you to being alone. Quit looking for reasons to say no and start looking for reasons to say yes. Quit treating people like numbers on a spreadsheet listing available options and start treating people as human beings. The more you seek reasons to connect rather than reasons to discard, the more neat people you'll realize there are to connect with.
P.S. Seriously... figure out why you're constantly meeting racists and people who are into eugenics, because that's not normal. I don't even know if I've ever met anyone who is into eugenics, and I've probably been dating for a decade longer than you have.
posted by 2oh1 at 7:50 PM on June 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
I read OP's both ask.mes the way that he wants a committed relationship. Not "dating" like some of the comments suggest.
It is another matter if (casual) "dating" is the only way to finding a committed relationship.
As a fellow introvert and a bit of a loner I partly understand the approach not to randomly meet people and casually date until something shakes out but to do a lot of screening first. Maybe it works differently for people who are more extroverted and social. Helpful answers address what the OP has given us.
posted by travelwithcats at 10:05 PM on June 9, 2013
It is another matter if (casual) "dating" is the only way to finding a committed relationship.
As a fellow introvert and a bit of a loner I partly understand the approach not to randomly meet people and casually date until something shakes out but to do a lot of screening first. Maybe it works differently for people who are more extroverted and social. Helpful answers address what the OP has given us.
posted by travelwithcats at 10:05 PM on June 9, 2013
I'm betting the eugenics/racist stuff comes from questions like: "Would the world be a better place if people with low IQs were not allowed to reproduce?" And ones about dating outside your own race.
The first one though I think many people are not answering entirely seriously. Concluding someone is a hardcore eugenics supporter from OKCupid questions is a bad idea, not everyone treats them as a philosophical statement of their views on life.
posted by wildcrdj at 10:11 PM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
The first one though I think many people are not answering entirely seriously. Concluding someone is a hardcore eugenics supporter from OKCupid questions is a bad idea, not everyone treats them as a philosophical statement of their views on life.
posted by wildcrdj at 10:11 PM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Many of these answers aren't helpful because of the highly uncharitable reading they give to my post. As just one example: people really focused on that short sentence about video games. One answerer quoted just that sentence and then wrote:
Based on this line, I'd say that you are actively searching for reasons to reject every single woman on earth, now, previously and in the future, to shore up your vision of yourself as a one of a kind super special unique ice crystal that simply cannot find love.
So yea, get therapy because you're wrong and sound foolish about it.
and this is one of the most favorited answers. I was mostly referring to the women who gave answers like "people who play video games are losers" or "I would not date anyone who plays 2 hours of games every night." Their dealbreakers, not mine. Feel free to ask them about it. I trust what people tell me about themselves and their preferences. Sure I'd prefer a woman who shared this lifelong hobby of mine but it would be ridiculous to insist on it.
Anyway thanks to those of you who meant well. Let's let this one go.
posted by moonlit walk on the sun at 11:00 PM on June 9, 2013
Based on this line, I'd say that you are actively searching for reasons to reject every single woman on earth, now, previously and in the future, to shore up your vision of yourself as a one of a kind super special unique ice crystal that simply cannot find love.
So yea, get therapy because you're wrong and sound foolish about it.
and this is one of the most favorited answers. I was mostly referring to the women who gave answers like "people who play video games are losers" or "I would not date anyone who plays 2 hours of games every night." Their dealbreakers, not mine. Feel free to ask them about it. I trust what people tell me about themselves and their preferences. Sure I'd prefer a woman who shared this lifelong hobby of mine but it would be ridiculous to insist on it.
Anyway thanks to those of you who meant well. Let's let this one go.
posted by moonlit walk on the sun at 11:00 PM on June 9, 2013
Please believe me, everyone here means well, even me with the tough love - thats why we took time out of our day to respond to you. If most people are drawing the same conclusion about you from the question you asked, chances are, it's not them, it's you. And it's not just the video game response, it's the whole way you present yourself as a rigid, fairly unyielding person. If this is reflected in your OK Cupid profile, potential dates may be picking up on that as well.
I understand you're annoyed at not getting the "Poor baby, no one loves you, doesn't the world suck" response but the world doesn't owe you a relationship or a love life. You wanted advice, you got it. You can reject it out of hand and turn into that person killing time alone for the next 50 years or you can take it in the spirit it was meant - to genuinely help, try adjusting your attitude and get out there and have another crack at it.
Keep in mind that many of the responses are from people in long term happy healthy relationships who are trying to share their hard earned knowledge. You on the other hand don't have that, want it, yet feel that their advice is still worth nothing. Yet who is the one sleeping alone? I despair for you, you seem intent on pushing the world away. For your sake, please consider talking to someone about this, you sound desperately unhappy.
posted by Jubey at 11:23 PM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I understand you're annoyed at not getting the "Poor baby, no one loves you, doesn't the world suck" response but the world doesn't owe you a relationship or a love life. You wanted advice, you got it. You can reject it out of hand and turn into that person killing time alone for the next 50 years or you can take it in the spirit it was meant - to genuinely help, try adjusting your attitude and get out there and have another crack at it.
Keep in mind that many of the responses are from people in long term happy healthy relationships who are trying to share their hard earned knowledge. You on the other hand don't have that, want it, yet feel that their advice is still worth nothing. Yet who is the one sleeping alone? I despair for you, you seem intent on pushing the world away. For your sake, please consider talking to someone about this, you sound desperately unhappy.
posted by Jubey at 11:23 PM on June 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I see. Those OKC answers provide an aggregated match number, was that high enough? You can not make all the answers individually be deal-breakers. People might have answered those questions months or even years ago. People change. People say they don't like pets and then end up loving having pets.
If you imagine a pyramid of levels, on the very top where the core must-have-values are, there is "does not want children". Is there "loves video games"?
posted by travelwithcats at 11:34 PM on June 9, 2013
If you imagine a pyramid of levels, on the very top where the core must-have-values are, there is "does not want children". Is there "loves video games"?
posted by travelwithcats at 11:34 PM on June 9, 2013
So, you're saying that the post you wrote that you intended to accurately represent yourself and your situation was misread by a majority of people who read it - but you're certain that you personally have accurately understood the nuances of personality conveyed by all the OKCupid profiles you read, and accurately identified dealbreakers on every one of them to the point where it's not even worth meeting anyone in person. OK then.
posted by jacalata at 1:31 AM on June 10, 2013 [16 favorites]
posted by jacalata at 1:31 AM on June 10, 2013 [16 favorites]
Per your update;
I think you should not use OKCupid questions as absolute dealbreakers, unless maybe the person put it as a "Absolutely Not" or whatever the most stringent sort that OKCupid uses.
Like travelwithcats said, people answer those years ago. They answer them flippantly. Again, I'm a gamer and I would still mark that a guy who played two hours of video games every night was not my preferred ideal, but not even because of the "two hours" thing, but because of the "Every night" thing. It suggests a rigidity.
And that's the thing, you don't know why they're interpreting these questions or how. Just go for it, don't let their answers to questions rule them out before you've even approached them.
We still don't know why you think they're racists/into eugenics. I'm trying to figure out how this even comes up on OKCupid. Is it because they state they personally wouldn't date a particular race in the questions? Or is there a "looking for sort"? Can't quite remember, but if so, that might not mean they're racists, it might mean they're just personally not sexually attracted. Sexual attraction is a funny thing.
posted by corb at 4:21 AM on June 10, 2013
I think you should not use OKCupid questions as absolute dealbreakers, unless maybe the person put it as a "Absolutely Not" or whatever the most stringent sort that OKCupid uses.
Like travelwithcats said, people answer those years ago. They answer them flippantly. Again, I'm a gamer and I would still mark that a guy who played two hours of video games every night was not my preferred ideal, but not even because of the "two hours" thing, but because of the "Every night" thing. It suggests a rigidity.
And that's the thing, you don't know why they're interpreting these questions or how. Just go for it, don't let their answers to questions rule them out before you've even approached them.
We still don't know why you think they're racists/into eugenics. I'm trying to figure out how this even comes up on OKCupid. Is it because they state they personally wouldn't date a particular race in the questions? Or is there a "looking for sort"? Can't quite remember, but if so, that might not mean they're racists, it might mean they're just personally not sexually attracted. Sexual attraction is a funny thing.
posted by corb at 4:21 AM on June 10, 2013
I really wouldn't give the answers people give to individual questions on OK cupid too much mind. When people say things like "people who play video games are losers", especially in answer to a particular automated question, that could simply be because the don't know any people like that.
The main take away you should get from these comments here is that ok cupid can be confusing and sending people a message costs you nothing! If they respond and you get a bad vibe, then sure, don't pursue it, but if they seem ok, why not try a date? Just a date. Failing that, some back and forth on messaging is going to give you a better feel for someone's personality than binary questions.
You can line up hundreds of questions someone has answered and think they are awful, but ten minutes of conversation and you're in love.
Random anecdote. During my year being single OK cupid sent me a weird arrow thing telling me I should message this person. Said person was on a different contintent and had a very low compatibility rate with me. For the hell of it, I did, and found a sweet funny girl. We never came close to dating, but we had some fun online conversations I don't regret. Had I gone by profiles alone I would never have experienced that.
You may not get a life partner from every date you go on, but you may experience meeting some interesting people.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 6:07 AM on June 10, 2013
The main take away you should get from these comments here is that ok cupid can be confusing and sending people a message costs you nothing! If they respond and you get a bad vibe, then sure, don't pursue it, but if they seem ok, why not try a date? Just a date. Failing that, some back and forth on messaging is going to give you a better feel for someone's personality than binary questions.
You can line up hundreds of questions someone has answered and think they are awful, but ten minutes of conversation and you're in love.
Random anecdote. During my year being single OK cupid sent me a weird arrow thing telling me I should message this person. Said person was on a different contintent and had a very low compatibility rate with me. For the hell of it, I did, and found a sweet funny girl. We never came close to dating, but we had some fun online conversations I don't regret. Had I gone by profiles alone I would never have experienced that.
You may not get a life partner from every date you go on, but you may experience meeting some interesting people.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 6:07 AM on June 10, 2013
I trust what people tell me about themselves and their preferences.
This may be a mistake. Most people just don't know what their romantic preferences are. We're all just stumbling blindly on, looking for someone who helps us feel OK, live a good life and do the right thing etc. What that person will look like is very hard to predict, and your apparent strong belief to the contrary is, I think, a significant root of your problems here and with relationships in general. Relationships are not an addition to you, to be selected if suitable, they are exactly what they sound like, RELATIONSHIPS. They are something you do, not something you collect. So go and do some, because if you ever want a good one, you'll have to be at least willing take part in the bad.
posted by howfar at 7:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
This may be a mistake. Most people just don't know what their romantic preferences are. We're all just stumbling blindly on, looking for someone who helps us feel OK, live a good life and do the right thing etc. What that person will look like is very hard to predict, and your apparent strong belief to the contrary is, I think, a significant root of your problems here and with relationships in general. Relationships are not an addition to you, to be selected if suitable, they are exactly what they sound like, RELATIONSHIPS. They are something you do, not something you collect. So go and do some, because if you ever want a good one, you'll have to be at least willing take part in the bad.
posted by howfar at 7:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
the odds that any particular woman would work for me are so astronomically low that there's no point in trying.
I have spent a couple of periods of my life single, because I don't really get interested in people that often. Along with this, I have a mental illness which tends to weed out your pool of potential dates pretty effectively. Despite this, I have an ace partner and many friends who I click with well, because I've tried to meet and make friends with people who get my particular brand of 'weirdness'. I have been rejected in the past as a woman who did not want children, so I see where you're coming from, even if the no drinking/no God thing wouldn't be a huge dealbreaker for me or many people I know.
Also, my SO is a gamer. I am not. I am quite happy for him to play games for a few hours a night, as it means I can get on with things I want to do. I'm also interested in hearing about games, because it isn't something I know a lot about, and although I lack the skill to play them myself, the way it is developing as a narrative form is interesting to me. A WoW player would be offputting for me because it's something people have to play a lot once they're into it, but gaming is just a hobby which a sensible functioning person won't do to excess.
(If you're a gamer, by the way, you should check out MeFightClub. It's a nice bunch of people.)
posted by mippy at 9:30 AM on June 10, 2013
I have spent a couple of periods of my life single, because I don't really get interested in people that often. Along with this, I have a mental illness which tends to weed out your pool of potential dates pretty effectively. Despite this, I have an ace partner and many friends who I click with well, because I've tried to meet and make friends with people who get my particular brand of 'weirdness'. I have been rejected in the past as a woman who did not want children, so I see where you're coming from, even if the no drinking/no God thing wouldn't be a huge dealbreaker for me or many people I know.
Also, my SO is a gamer. I am not. I am quite happy for him to play games for a few hours a night, as it means I can get on with things I want to do. I'm also interested in hearing about games, because it isn't something I know a lot about, and although I lack the skill to play them myself, the way it is developing as a narrative form is interesting to me. A WoW player would be offputting for me because it's something people have to play a lot once they're into it, but gaming is just a hobby which a sensible functioning person won't do to excess.
(If you're a gamer, by the way, you should check out MeFightClub. It's a nice bunch of people.)
posted by mippy at 9:30 AM on June 10, 2013
Many of these answers aren't helpful because of the highly uncharitable reading they give to my post.
I can't speak for everyone, but I just went by what you said. When you said "I'm really into video games and they are really not" I assumed that you meant that you were really into video games and they were really not and that this was enough to be a problem. Which, on the face of it, it isn't. If you meant that you are really into video games and they think that people who play video games are losers and freaks, well, it might have helped to say that.
We are actually trying to be helpful here.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
I can't speak for everyone, but I just went by what you said. When you said "I'm really into video games and they are really not" I assumed that you meant that you were really into video games and they were really not and that this was enough to be a problem. Which, on the face of it, it isn't. If you meant that you are really into video games and they think that people who play video games are losers and freaks, well, it might have helped to say that.
We are actually trying to be helpful here.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:59 AM on June 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
Anyway thanks to those of you who meant well. Let's let this one go.
This is the same defeatism that's preventing you from going on any dates with any women.
posted by wondermouse at 11:09 AM on June 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
This is the same defeatism that's preventing you from going on any dates with any women.
posted by wondermouse at 11:09 AM on June 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
wondermouse said: "This is the same defeatism that's preventing you from going on any dates with any women."
RIGHT!
The OP said: "the odds that any particular woman would work for me are so astronomically low that there's no point in trying. It is painful."
WRONG.
OP, you have to stop looking for a woman who would "work for you" and start looking for someone nice to meet. Note that I said meet. Not date. Not marry. Not settle down with. Not share a life with. Not someone to be your dream come true one and only. Good riddance to bad concepts. That's like saying "I'll only play golf if I know I'll hit a hole in one every time." Stop looking for perfection and start looking for someone fun to have coffee with. Stop looking for forever and start looking for someone who would be fun to spend a Saturday afternoon with.
The best relationships I've ever had were with women who didn't fit the mold of what I thought I was looking for... but you'll never enjoy amazing experiences like those because you're too busy saying no.
posted by 2oh1 at 3:59 PM on June 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
RIGHT!
The OP said: "the odds that any particular woman would work for me are so astronomically low that there's no point in trying. It is painful."
WRONG.
OP, you have to stop looking for a woman who would "work for you" and start looking for someone nice to meet. Note that I said meet. Not date. Not marry. Not settle down with. Not share a life with. Not someone to be your dream come true one and only. Good riddance to bad concepts. That's like saying "I'll only play golf if I know I'll hit a hole in one every time." Stop looking for perfection and start looking for someone fun to have coffee with. Stop looking for forever and start looking for someone who would be fun to spend a Saturday afternoon with.
The best relationships I've ever had were with women who didn't fit the mold of what I thought I was looking for... but you'll never enjoy amazing experiences like those because you're too busy saying no.
posted by 2oh1 at 3:59 PM on June 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
You sound really ambivalent to me, both in your posts and in your updates. Not only about dating but about human contact, period. I completely understand that. it sounds like you are getting ready to make some changes but are not all the way there yet, and that's fine. I think you should just keep trying different ways to break out of your shell, as you feel ready. Sorry if that sounds patronizing; it's really not meant to. I think you are being quite brave in the way you are discussing this stuff.
posted by BibiRose at 11:57 AM on June 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by BibiRose at 11:57 AM on June 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I want to let you all know I'm doing fine. I posted the OP during a little sad spell but that's passed. The answers went somewhat off the rails but I should have written the OP better. Even so the answers really made me think. Thanks everyone.
posted by moonlit walk on the sun at 9:41 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by moonlit walk on the sun at 9:41 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm drawn to profiles where it's clear the woman is, simply put, weird and shows it. ... This is very alienating. I live in a walkable area and take public transit and I pass many attractive women when I go anywhere.
Weird, attractive women you see out and about in walkable areas and on transit get out of the house, enjoy traveling, aren't going to sit at home playing video games all day, and don't equate having the occasional drink with doing heroin.
Here's the thing: your rigidity is shining through in everything you say. Why do you stay at home and play video games? Because you know that, at home, there is a 100% guarantee that the time you spend at home playing video games will be spent playing that video game. Why do you not want a woman messaging you first? Because you want to pick who that person you wish to message is, and if that person messages you, then you feel like you are not in control of the interaction.
This probably falls into why you don't like travel or don't even like the idea of taking a pottery class-- because you will not be in control of what happens. And that is totally true. I went to a bar last night to celebrate my friend's birthday. I had 1-2 hours of time to see her, so I showed up right on time. My friend was 20-30 minutes late, meaning I stood around awkwardly waiting for her. The drinks were a lot more expensive than I thought they would be. But THEN I met her great friends I had never met before, I hung out with an old friend I hadn't seen in a while, and a famous person showed up to the bar to have a few drinks, and another friend of mine spoke to him for a bit. I ended up staying longer than I expected. It was fantastic! But I had to be willing to accept that I was going to engage in an activity where I could not control the situation-- things were going to happen around me and unforeseen circumstances were going to occur, but that is part of life. It didn't even have to go that well-- my friend could have shown up an hour late, the bar could have been lame, and her other friends could have bailed on her, leading to an unhappy time for everyone. But that is an occupational hazard of leaving the house.
You are going to have to be willing to place yourself in situations where you cannot guarantee what will happen and what your interactions will be like. Some of these situations will be good, and some will be bad. But you have to be willing to allow them to happen if you're ever going to meet anyone.
posted by deanc at 8:50 AM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Weird, attractive women you see out and about in walkable areas and on transit get out of the house, enjoy traveling, aren't going to sit at home playing video games all day, and don't equate having the occasional drink with doing heroin.
Here's the thing: your rigidity is shining through in everything you say. Why do you stay at home and play video games? Because you know that, at home, there is a 100% guarantee that the time you spend at home playing video games will be spent playing that video game. Why do you not want a woman messaging you first? Because you want to pick who that person you wish to message is, and if that person messages you, then you feel like you are not in control of the interaction.
This probably falls into why you don't like travel or don't even like the idea of taking a pottery class-- because you will not be in control of what happens. And that is totally true. I went to a bar last night to celebrate my friend's birthday. I had 1-2 hours of time to see her, so I showed up right on time. My friend was 20-30 minutes late, meaning I stood around awkwardly waiting for her. The drinks were a lot more expensive than I thought they would be. But THEN I met her great friends I had never met before, I hung out with an old friend I hadn't seen in a while, and a famous person showed up to the bar to have a few drinks, and another friend of mine spoke to him for a bit. I ended up staying longer than I expected. It was fantastic! But I had to be willing to accept that I was going to engage in an activity where I could not control the situation-- things were going to happen around me and unforeseen circumstances were going to occur, but that is part of life. It didn't even have to go that well-- my friend could have shown up an hour late, the bar could have been lame, and her other friends could have bailed on her, leading to an unhappy time for everyone. But that is an occupational hazard of leaving the house.
You are going to have to be willing to place yourself in situations where you cannot guarantee what will happen and what your interactions will be like. Some of these situations will be good, and some will be bad. But you have to be willing to allow them to happen if you're ever going to meet anyone.
posted by deanc at 8:50 AM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'd like to add to what I've said already in case I decide to post again, so people looking here will have a better idea where I'm coming from.
The last couple years my ex and I were together were miserable. When she left me I was blindsided. What followed were the worst years of my life. I've only been able to piece together what happened after a lot of reflection. We disagreed about kids though we never really faced it honestly and only looking back was this obvious. We had little in common and I can remember many sad silent nights with us in different rooms doing separate things, including me playing video games. When I was younger I was intensely interested in religion while my ex was apathetic, and this frustrated me and bewildered her. There were plenty of good times but I "lost" roughly a decade of my life to this including the years afterwards while I was a mess. I'm older and more stable now but even so I don't want to spend another decade like that if I can avoid it with some planning and patience.
About travel, one woman seemed constantly out of the country, another was living in two places. Neither of those situations would work for me.
I have no moral problems with drinking. I don't drink because I've had problems controlling my drinking and complete abstinence has been the only sure solution. I don't trust myself having alcohol in my home. Someone who drinks regularly would be a poor fit. I do understand that some women who drink moderately would be happy to give it up if they were with someone in my position.
I think it's great women send messages. The convention that women can only receive interest and not show it is sexist and a huge disadvantage for them. What I meant was that I had searched thoroughly and ran out of women I wanted to message so anyone messaging me first would likely be, therefore, someone I did not want to message.
I'm comfortable with who I am, but unfortunately who I am is someone who has a smaller pool of options than others do. My intention was to hear from people like me about how they've managed. I was also surprised at how underwhelmed I was browsing OKCupid and wanted to see how normal that feeling was. Unfortunately the OP was misread as me asking more like, why does everyone hate me and why am I so miserable, which is understandable given the extremely gloomy tone, and I hadn't provided enough context so people made assumptions and gave "tough love" and things got off track. Fortunately, this has been useful for me anyway because it's inspired a lot of thought, so thanks.
posted by moonlit walk on the sun at 10:16 PM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
The last couple years my ex and I were together were miserable. When she left me I was blindsided. What followed were the worst years of my life. I've only been able to piece together what happened after a lot of reflection. We disagreed about kids though we never really faced it honestly and only looking back was this obvious. We had little in common and I can remember many sad silent nights with us in different rooms doing separate things, including me playing video games. When I was younger I was intensely interested in religion while my ex was apathetic, and this frustrated me and bewildered her. There were plenty of good times but I "lost" roughly a decade of my life to this including the years afterwards while I was a mess. I'm older and more stable now but even so I don't want to spend another decade like that if I can avoid it with some planning and patience.
About travel, one woman seemed constantly out of the country, another was living in two places. Neither of those situations would work for me.
I have no moral problems with drinking. I don't drink because I've had problems controlling my drinking and complete abstinence has been the only sure solution. I don't trust myself having alcohol in my home. Someone who drinks regularly would be a poor fit. I do understand that some women who drink moderately would be happy to give it up if they were with someone in my position.
I think it's great women send messages. The convention that women can only receive interest and not show it is sexist and a huge disadvantage for them. What I meant was that I had searched thoroughly and ran out of women I wanted to message so anyone messaging me first would likely be, therefore, someone I did not want to message.
I'm comfortable with who I am, but unfortunately who I am is someone who has a smaller pool of options than others do. My intention was to hear from people like me about how they've managed. I was also surprised at how underwhelmed I was browsing OKCupid and wanted to see how normal that feeling was. Unfortunately the OP was misread as me asking more like, why does everyone hate me and why am I so miserable, which is understandable given the extremely gloomy tone, and I hadn't provided enough context so people made assumptions and gave "tough love" and things got off track. Fortunately, this has been useful for me anyway because it's inspired a lot of thought, so thanks.
posted by moonlit walk on the sun at 10:16 PM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hey, thanks for the update. I am glad to hear that things are not quite as bad as all that.
Re: drinking, given your history, wanting a complete abstainer is totally reasonable and most likely the right/best approach. What I would do, personally, is put "never" on drinking, say something offhand but clear about how you really don't drink, ever, and go from there. I totally support not wanting alcohol in your home, but a first date is not moving in, either. I also know that people with zero personal/familial history with alcohol often don't get exactly why you're so "uptight" (I'm joking about "uptight").
Here's what I'd do. Here's what I, in essence, personally did. I had only two dealbreakers: must be unusually smart, must be Jewish to some degree. (Then there's everyone's implicit criterion, must not be a huge asshole, which we'll leave out.) Those were really important to me and those were the ONLY things I got to insist on. EVERYONE who fit those criteria, if I got asked, if I saw the opportunity, I said OK, why not? (This includes the pre-OKCupid era, of course.) Was not prima facie so physically attractive? OK, it'll grow. Huge political gap? You never know what people really think. HS dropout? Sure, it's not about education. Hated everything about Judaism? OK, well, at least it's not forbidden under Jewish law to marry him. My natural pool is really, really small. I'd have never dated at all if I didn't force myself to widen it.
ESPECIALLY regarding OKCupid, ESPECIALLY WRT those dumbass questions, don't even think twice. Come on. You know the graveyard question? You think there are really scores and scores of necrophiliacs at your local cafe? Believe me, if someone is a racist, it will SOON be apparent. In my experience, the worst offenders, the very worst, are those that have the right answer ticked on every "progressive" box, in life, I mean.
posted by skbw at 6:23 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Re: drinking, given your history, wanting a complete abstainer is totally reasonable and most likely the right/best approach. What I would do, personally, is put "never" on drinking, say something offhand but clear about how you really don't drink, ever, and go from there. I totally support not wanting alcohol in your home, but a first date is not moving in, either. I also know that people with zero personal/familial history with alcohol often don't get exactly why you're so "uptight" (I'm joking about "uptight").
Here's what I'd do. Here's what I, in essence, personally did. I had only two dealbreakers: must be unusually smart, must be Jewish to some degree. (Then there's everyone's implicit criterion, must not be a huge asshole, which we'll leave out.) Those were really important to me and those were the ONLY things I got to insist on. EVERYONE who fit those criteria, if I got asked, if I saw the opportunity, I said OK, why not? (This includes the pre-OKCupid era, of course.) Was not prima facie so physically attractive? OK, it'll grow. Huge political gap? You never know what people really think. HS dropout? Sure, it's not about education. Hated everything about Judaism? OK, well, at least it's not forbidden under Jewish law to marry him. My natural pool is really, really small. I'd have never dated at all if I didn't force myself to widen it.
ESPECIALLY regarding OKCupid, ESPECIALLY WRT those dumbass questions, don't even think twice. Come on. You know the graveyard question? You think there are really scores and scores of necrophiliacs at your local cafe? Believe me, if someone is a racist, it will SOON be apparent. In my experience, the worst offenders, the very worst, are those that have the right answer ticked on every "progressive" box, in life, I mean.
posted by skbw at 6:23 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
So your two dealbreakers, based on what you've written, might be "no kids" and "willing to live happily with a total abstainer, drinking only 'out' in the unlikely chance we ever get that far."
Regarding religion...I say this as someone who lived a strictly Orthodox lifestyle from ages 18-33, I do mean strictly, and one day just couldn't do it anymore. Not as someone who doesn't get it. If you used to be religious when you were younger, and religion posed a problem in your last (only?) adult relationship, then I humbly suggest, only drawing from my own life, that you are IN NO WAY ready to set hard criteria about religion. Leave it alone. MAYBE if you're Jewish you can leave out people who mention Hakadosh Baruch Hu in their profile, as in, God has directed me to message you, and MAYBE if you're Christian you can do the same with people who explicitly talk about Jesus, and I don't know what the fundie tags of other religions are. But short of "I prayed about whether to send you a message," leave it totally alone. I would even OK people who say "I go to [house of worship]." People do that for a LOT of reasons. I would GO SO FAR as to OK people who pick the "serious about it" option. By the standards of 95% of American Jews, I'm still really serious about Judaism, but I could get along fine with an atheist or agnostic.
posted by skbw at 6:54 AM on June 14, 2013
Regarding religion...I say this as someone who lived a strictly Orthodox lifestyle from ages 18-33, I do mean strictly, and one day just couldn't do it anymore. Not as someone who doesn't get it. If you used to be religious when you were younger, and religion posed a problem in your last (only?) adult relationship, then I humbly suggest, only drawing from my own life, that you are IN NO WAY ready to set hard criteria about religion. Leave it alone. MAYBE if you're Jewish you can leave out people who mention Hakadosh Baruch Hu in their profile, as in, God has directed me to message you, and MAYBE if you're Christian you can do the same with people who explicitly talk about Jesus, and I don't know what the fundie tags of other religions are. But short of "I prayed about whether to send you a message," leave it totally alone. I would even OK people who say "I go to [house of worship]." People do that for a LOT of reasons. I would GO SO FAR as to OK people who pick the "serious about it" option. By the standards of 95% of American Jews, I'm still really serious about Judaism, but I could get along fine with an atheist or agnostic.
posted by skbw at 6:54 AM on June 14, 2013
I was going to say what skbw said. I have a bunch of really strict requirements. The way I got out there and dated more people and had relationships was by simply relaxing those requirements in favor of the underlying meta-requirements that the "outward" requirements represented, and then if there were sparks, I figured it out from there. That way you meet more people and have experiences that allow you to grow as a person and find out whom you may be compatible with. (MeMail me and I'll explain this in more detail)
Your requirement isn't "does not drink" it's "does not have alcohol in the house." It's not "is a strict atheist" it's "doesn't have her religious background interfere with our relationship."
I'm older and more stable now but even so I don't want to spend another decade like that if I can avoid it with some planning and patience.
You may not get a girlfriend anytime soon. That's possible. So what are you going to do between now and the time when you find the "right" relationship? You can spend that time at home doing nothing waiting until you find the perfect person, or you can spend that time hanging out going on dates with different women and socializing in different kinds of venues. Your choice. Which do you think is more likely to help you find the "right" relationship in the meantime?
posted by deanc at 7:57 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your requirement isn't "does not drink" it's "does not have alcohol in the house." It's not "is a strict atheist" it's "doesn't have her religious background interfere with our relationship."
I'm older and more stable now but even so I don't want to spend another decade like that if I can avoid it with some planning and patience.
You may not get a girlfriend anytime soon. That's possible. So what are you going to do between now and the time when you find the "right" relationship? You can spend that time at home doing nothing waiting until you find the perfect person, or you can spend that time hanging out going on dates with different women and socializing in different kinds of venues. Your choice. Which do you think is more likely to help you find the "right" relationship in the meantime?
posted by deanc at 7:57 AM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
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I would try going on some dates with these people who don't seem compelling in print. I'd also consider going on dates with these people who seem obsessed with travel or uninterested in video games (or the like) because I think it's hard to tell from a profile whether that's going to be a big issue.
Relationships are tough and I need something more than "well there's nothing wrong with her" to get started.
You don't need to start a relationship with these women just yet; you just need to see if they'd like to go on a date. If you go on a date and then don't feel like "getting started" (or going on a second date), then by all means, don't. But I'd try meeting at least a few of these people in person first. That seems like a pretty small investment given how much you'd like a partner.
posted by needs more cowbell at 3:28 PM on June 8, 2013 [26 favorites]