I need some career advice...
June 7, 2013 11:52 AM Subscribe
I'm a recent college grad confused about which path I should take: a career in the arts? Or a career focusing on law and the humanities?
So, I managed to graduate from college without self-destructing. I managed to save my GPA, and--somehow--I managed to keep stress from turning my brain into a pile of goo. (On a lighter note, thanks to the direction from some of you on here, I managed to beat my depression, and I'm so grateful for that!) But now I'm stuck with the question that a lot of recent graduates find themselves with: what now?
The problem for me is that I have two career interests pulling me in two directions. On the one hand, I've always loved art and illustration, and I'm attracted to the idea of pursuing a career in graphic arts. Whether that means going to graduate school or taking individual classes to sharpen my portfolio is in dispute, but my major goal is to improve the set of skills I have in order to devote my life to the arts. This is the area I'm the most passionate in, but has the least support...
On the other hand, I'm also attracted to the idea of pursuing my intellectual interests. I went to college as a political science major (after originally leaving a studio art program due to the utter expense of it), and I kinda fell in love with it. I didn't really enter the program with a career in mind (if you discount my parent's insistence on becoming a lawyer); however, I came out of it with a genuine appreciation for the humanities (which was, in this case, a focus on political philosophy and American jurisprudence). I recently learned about a dual degree program at NYU for a J.D. & PhD in History and Politics, and, after months of saying that I would hate studying tax or business law, I entertained the idea of attending graduate school to study subjects that actually peaked my interest. I was happy to find out that I could do something that not only satisfied my interests, but satisfied my parents as well.
The only problem with this setup is that art and law are pretty much irreconcilable. If I go on one path, it would mean forsaking the other for a good amount of time. If I went to law school now, I don't see myself picking up art until my law career wound down. The problem is...I don't know if I could wait that long. On the other hand, going to a graduate art school (the SVA illustration program in particular) would be exactly what I wanted...but making a living as an artist would be particularly straining, especially coming from a background where I never had much to begin with. I feel really anxious about all this, because--in my mind--I see two different paths that take me on widely different journeys. I don't want to, years in the future, end up regretting the choice I made.
All I really want is some tips that I could use to make up my mind about this. I know that no one can make this decision for me, but I would like some pointers on what I could do to resolve this issue. Help a confused college graduate out?
So, I managed to graduate from college without self-destructing. I managed to save my GPA, and--somehow--I managed to keep stress from turning my brain into a pile of goo. (On a lighter note, thanks to the direction from some of you on here, I managed to beat my depression, and I'm so grateful for that!) But now I'm stuck with the question that a lot of recent graduates find themselves with: what now?
The problem for me is that I have two career interests pulling me in two directions. On the one hand, I've always loved art and illustration, and I'm attracted to the idea of pursuing a career in graphic arts. Whether that means going to graduate school or taking individual classes to sharpen my portfolio is in dispute, but my major goal is to improve the set of skills I have in order to devote my life to the arts. This is the area I'm the most passionate in, but has the least support...
On the other hand, I'm also attracted to the idea of pursuing my intellectual interests. I went to college as a political science major (after originally leaving a studio art program due to the utter expense of it), and I kinda fell in love with it. I didn't really enter the program with a career in mind (if you discount my parent's insistence on becoming a lawyer); however, I came out of it with a genuine appreciation for the humanities (which was, in this case, a focus on political philosophy and American jurisprudence). I recently learned about a dual degree program at NYU for a J.D. & PhD in History and Politics, and, after months of saying that I would hate studying tax or business law, I entertained the idea of attending graduate school to study subjects that actually peaked my interest. I was happy to find out that I could do something that not only satisfied my interests, but satisfied my parents as well.
The only problem with this setup is that art and law are pretty much irreconcilable. If I go on one path, it would mean forsaking the other for a good amount of time. If I went to law school now, I don't see myself picking up art until my law career wound down. The problem is...I don't know if I could wait that long. On the other hand, going to a graduate art school (the SVA illustration program in particular) would be exactly what I wanted...but making a living as an artist would be particularly straining, especially coming from a background where I never had much to begin with. I feel really anxious about all this, because--in my mind--I see two different paths that take me on widely different journeys. I don't want to, years in the future, end up regretting the choice I made.
All I really want is some tips that I could use to make up my mind about this. I know that no one can make this decision for me, but I would like some pointers on what I could do to resolve this issue. Help a confused college graduate out?
If you're thinking about graduate schools, talk to each program and ask what their graduates are now doing. Maybe one of those career paths will be something you haven't thought of.
posted by Liesl at 11:58 AM on June 7, 2013
posted by Liesl at 11:58 AM on June 7, 2013
Don't Go to Law School (Unless).
There are relatively few people for whom attending law school makes economic and personal sense. Based only on what you've written above, you are unlikely to be one of them. Read that book. Read more about the ongoing, worsening crisis in legal education and the legal job market. Make an educated decision based on what's best for you and your future.
posted by jedicus at 11:59 AM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
There are relatively few people for whom attending law school makes economic and personal sense. Based only on what you've written above, you are unlikely to be one of them. Read that book. Read more about the ongoing, worsening crisis in legal education and the legal job market. Make an educated decision based on what's best for you and your future.
posted by jedicus at 11:59 AM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Don't go to law school.
The only people who should go to law school, in the current legal economy, are those who:
(a) Really want to be lawyers;
(b) Know what it means to be a lawyer; and
(c) Can get into:
(i) Harvard, Yale, or Stanford;
(ii) Columbia, Chicago, or NYU with significant scholarship funding; or
(iii) any of the other T-14 schools (Michigan, Berkeley, Duke, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Penn or UVA) with a full-ride.
Going to law school other than under the conditions described above will saddle you with over $200,000 of non-dischargeable debt and no ability to pay it back. You will be screwed for life.
In your case, you flunk (a) and (b). Generally most people who would satisfy (c) are people who know the difference between "peaked" and "piqued." (I'm deliberately being an asshole by pointing this out, but that's exactly the kind of nitpicking you can expect for your entire legal career).
posted by ewiar at 12:04 PM on June 7, 2013 [17 favorites]
The only people who should go to law school, in the current legal economy, are those who:
(a) Really want to be lawyers;
(b) Know what it means to be a lawyer; and
(c) Can get into:
(i) Harvard, Yale, or Stanford;
(ii) Columbia, Chicago, or NYU with significant scholarship funding; or
(iii) any of the other T-14 schools (Michigan, Berkeley, Duke, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Penn or UVA) with a full-ride.
Going to law school other than under the conditions described above will saddle you with over $200,000 of non-dischargeable debt and no ability to pay it back. You will be screwed for life.
In your case, you flunk (a) and (b). Generally most people who would satisfy (c) are people who know the difference between "peaked" and "piqued." (I'm deliberately being an asshole by pointing this out, but that's exactly the kind of nitpicking you can expect for your entire legal career).
posted by ewiar at 12:04 PM on June 7, 2013 [17 favorites]
If you don't have a BFA and a killer portfolio, I think that it's a little late in the game to decide you want a career as an artist. You could take some classes, but your competition will have had 4 years of doing nothing but art, and there aren't all that many jobs to begin with. My kid just graduated from a highly ranked art school, and every single person in her program has a reel or portfolio that are astonishing--and they have the connections and networks to get their collective footsies in the doors. Your passion is trumped by their actions.
Just get a job. Your first gigs are all about learning how to go to work. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but your intellectual interests aren't really as useful to an employer as your ability to be on time, follow directions, pay attention to details and work well with your colleagues. Seriously, don't dither around worrying about where the magic twinkling paths will lead--just get out there and get going. Your choice today can and will be a million miles away from where you end up in the future.
posted by Ideefixe at 12:05 PM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just get a job. Your first gigs are all about learning how to go to work. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but your intellectual interests aren't really as useful to an employer as your ability to be on time, follow directions, pay attention to details and work well with your colleagues. Seriously, don't dither around worrying about where the magic twinkling paths will lead--just get out there and get going. Your choice today can and will be a million miles away from where you end up in the future.
posted by Ideefixe at 12:05 PM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Don't go to law school. Anything but law school, in fact.
As for graphic design school, take a very, very close look at the job market.
Let's say I had to do it all over again, standing in my early twenties with a liberal arts degree. I'd get my ass right back to college for a BS or BA in a science of any kind, or find any masters program that would take me with a liberal arts BA. I sure wouldn't have gone to law school knowing what I know now.
posted by mibo at 12:07 PM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
As for graphic design school, take a very, very close look at the job market.
Let's say I had to do it all over again, standing in my early twenties with a liberal arts degree. I'd get my ass right back to college for a BS or BA in a science of any kind, or find any masters program that would take me with a liberal arts BA. I sure wouldn't have gone to law school knowing what I know now.
posted by mibo at 12:07 PM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Another lawyer just chiming in to say don't go to law school unless you really want to go to law school. In your shoes, it may be a lot cheaper to spend a year or two as a paralegal to determine that no, you actually don't like the work of a law firm, and want to do something else.
Honest question: what do you see the joint J.D./Ph.D. program in history and politics preparing you for?
posted by craven_morhead at 12:13 PM on June 7, 2013
Honest question: what do you see the joint J.D./Ph.D. program in history and politics preparing you for?
posted by craven_morhead at 12:13 PM on June 7, 2013
Find a job. When you're working, you'll have less time for your passions, true. But that can actually help you clarify which of your passions you're most passionate about. Grad school/law school will be there next year, and the year after that, and the year after that.
posted by mskyle at 12:18 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mskyle at 12:18 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Another lawyer here. I'll tell anyone who listens not to go to law school.
I don't see myself picking up art until my law career wound down.
It never winds down. It's like the mob or Hotel California -- you can never really leave. For a great many of us, there is no 'post-law' period. We die in our chairs.
Even if you do get out, the human toll is so great that I can't expect you'd be feeling very creative after. There's a reason why so many of us are alcoholics -- because we all want an out, and there is none.
Don't go to law school. Seriously. Just don't.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:29 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't see myself picking up art until my law career wound down.
It never winds down. It's like the mob or Hotel California -- you can never really leave. For a great many of us, there is no 'post-law' period. We die in our chairs.
Even if you do get out, the human toll is so great that I can't expect you'd be feeling very creative after. There's a reason why so many of us are alcoholics -- because we all want an out, and there is none.
Don't go to law school. Seriously. Just don't.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:29 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Nthing-- get into the workforce for a year or two, and you can think about grad school after that.
Key flags from your question: you're thinking about this choice in terms of "passions" and "interests"-- which basically boil down to your intellectual and emotional attraction to various fields. This is completely reasonable, since you're a recent undergrad who's spent the last four years relating to things in terms of purely theoretical undergrad coursework. Here's the thing, though: having a career in something is not like taking a course in it. The day-to-day work of law is nothing like the experience of learning about law or poli.sci. in your courses. Not speaking from experience, but I'm guessing the day-to-day experience of living as a working graphic artist is also very different from the experience of taking some art classes while fully supported in grad or undergrad school.
Your decision to enter either one of these fields will have a hundred HUGE important consequences for your future quality of life, in terms of the kind (and amount) of work you do day-to-day, the shape of your workflow, how much you make (and therefore, what clothing you wear, how much you travel, what you eat, what you do or don't do for fun), who your colleagues and friends are, where you need to live, what options you have for relationships and children, what parts of your personality you cultivate and which parts you quash, the ongoing state of your mental health, etc., etc. Your academic experience to date gives you little or no insight into any of these considerations, and yet I guarantee you there will be many points in the future when one or more of these practical factors rises up to completely dwarf the impact of any initial abstract "passion" or "interest" you had in the field.
At this point, you need to figure out what you want from your day-to-day working life, and a couple more years of coursework will not get you any closer to insight on that subject. Get a lowly job in one or the other field, and see how you like your life-- and how you like your colleagues' lives. Then, if you want, get a different job in some other field and see how you like your life there. Plenty of time to worry about the credentialling process once you've decided where you want to emerge on the other end.
posted by Bardolph at 12:36 PM on June 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
Key flags from your question: you're thinking about this choice in terms of "passions" and "interests"-- which basically boil down to your intellectual and emotional attraction to various fields. This is completely reasonable, since you're a recent undergrad who's spent the last four years relating to things in terms of purely theoretical undergrad coursework. Here's the thing, though: having a career in something is not like taking a course in it. The day-to-day work of law is nothing like the experience of learning about law or poli.sci. in your courses. Not speaking from experience, but I'm guessing the day-to-day experience of living as a working graphic artist is also very different from the experience of taking some art classes while fully supported in grad or undergrad school.
Your decision to enter either one of these fields will have a hundred HUGE important consequences for your future quality of life, in terms of the kind (and amount) of work you do day-to-day, the shape of your workflow, how much you make (and therefore, what clothing you wear, how much you travel, what you eat, what you do or don't do for fun), who your colleagues and friends are, where you need to live, what options you have for relationships and children, what parts of your personality you cultivate and which parts you quash, the ongoing state of your mental health, etc., etc. Your academic experience to date gives you little or no insight into any of these considerations, and yet I guarantee you there will be many points in the future when one or more of these practical factors rises up to completely dwarf the impact of any initial abstract "passion" or "interest" you had in the field.
At this point, you need to figure out what you want from your day-to-day working life, and a couple more years of coursework will not get you any closer to insight on that subject. Get a lowly job in one or the other field, and see how you like your life-- and how you like your colleagues' lives. Then, if you want, get a different job in some other field and see how you like your life there. Plenty of time to worry about the credentialling process once you've decided where you want to emerge on the other end.
posted by Bardolph at 12:36 PM on June 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
You shouldn't go to grad school unless you know exactly what program you want, and why, and what you want to do with it afterward. This is true for some people right out of college, but most people are better off taking 2-4 years to actually work, first.
That is definitely not true for you right now, and I think going to grad school before it is true is a big mistake.
Get out into the world and get a job, probably one related to the arts, law, or politics - since those seem to be your interests.
In your spare time, volunteer at an art museum, take art classes, paint, volunteer for a political campaign or a pro-bono legal clinic.
Pay down any college debt you have, get some money saved up, figure out what you like and what you're looking for in a working environment/employer, get some REAL experience.
The path will become clearer once you are out of school and in the real world.
posted by amaire at 12:43 PM on June 7, 2013
That is definitely not true for you right now, and I think going to grad school before it is true is a big mistake.
Get out into the world and get a job, probably one related to the arts, law, or politics - since those seem to be your interests.
In your spare time, volunteer at an art museum, take art classes, paint, volunteer for a political campaign or a pro-bono legal clinic.
Pay down any college debt you have, get some money saved up, figure out what you like and what you're looking for in a working environment/employer, get some REAL experience.
The path will become clearer once you are out of school and in the real world.
posted by amaire at 12:43 PM on June 7, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I guess entering the workforce would be the place to start. It's extremely frustrating to be in this position, but I won't know what I really want until I just go headfirst into the job pool.
It's funny that (in the back of my mind) I kind of knew that law school would not be the place to go...I had this conversation years ago and I forgot how negative the reactions were (from other friends who ended up becoming lawyers). Idealism and intellectual pursuits do mean little now that I think more about it; my head was a bit too inflated, haha. Anyways, I'm glad for the direction provided.
Also, regardless of a lack of a BFA, I still want to work towards creating a portfolio. But my first goal will be to enter the workforce while still saddling art as a side interest.
Again, I'm grateful for the help, at least now I have a place to start.
posted by tammi209 at 12:46 PM on June 7, 2013
It's funny that (in the back of my mind) I kind of knew that law school would not be the place to go...I had this conversation years ago and I forgot how negative the reactions were (from other friends who ended up becoming lawyers). Idealism and intellectual pursuits do mean little now that I think more about it; my head was a bit too inflated, haha. Anyways, I'm glad for the direction provided.
Also, regardless of a lack of a BFA, I still want to work towards creating a portfolio. But my first goal will be to enter the workforce while still saddling art as a side interest.
Again, I'm grateful for the help, at least now I have a place to start.
posted by tammi209 at 12:46 PM on June 7, 2013
Best answer: I'm a newly minted art professor and practicing artist who, during undergrad, was considering a legal career. My thoughts:
A) Unless you want to teach art in tertiary academia, you don't need an MFA. The terminal degree is a requirement to teach at the university/college level and a requirement FOR VERY LITTLE ELSE. And of those MFAs, only 6% actually land a full-time teaching position. Most of the rest adjunct without health insurance under the poverty line, live on their partner's salary, or fall out of the arts. Getting an illustration job requires the ability to illustrate. That's it. An MFA does open more doors, but those doors would also open to a strong portfolio and resume/reputation. The latter two will actually pay you in the making of them.
B) Supply vs. demand in both these fields is completely out of whack. You must be truly exceptional, with an exceptional pedigree, to be successful in either field nowadays, and even then you must be very lucky on top of being exceptional.
C) You don't even know what it's like to work in these fields. One of the reasons I left my previously well-paid business role was that I learned fairly quickly that I need interpersonal interaction at work. Illustration/graphic design is far more isolating than people imagine when they're used to group critiques and collaborative projects; it is sitting alone at a computer or with paper for the majority of the day. Law is actually mostly the same (computer, research, writing = isolating) unless you take a public defender/constant courtroom route, which pays far less well. Both fields are again crazily competitive even for the crap jobs. (In my specific search, there was a listing this past season for a full-time non-tenure track art professor position that paid $20,000/yr that required an MFA and three years teaching experience. I did not apply for it, but I know people who did.)
D) I therefore very, very strongly urge you to get a job in your chosen field (law, art, both) before considering further education. Furthering your academic achievements is easy: it's what you're used to, it has a lot of time flexibility and people invested in your success. But it's easy because you're paying to do it and above the actual monetary cost, the opportunity cost is very high in terms of lost salary and closing out other career options through early specialization. Try out an entry level position, see if they are for you lifestyle/salary-wise, and see if you could compete with those being hired for higher level positions. You'll make money and learn a lot while doing it.
posted by vegartanipla at 12:48 PM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
A) Unless you want to teach art in tertiary academia, you don't need an MFA. The terminal degree is a requirement to teach at the university/college level and a requirement FOR VERY LITTLE ELSE. And of those MFAs, only 6% actually land a full-time teaching position. Most of the rest adjunct without health insurance under the poverty line, live on their partner's salary, or fall out of the arts. Getting an illustration job requires the ability to illustrate. That's it. An MFA does open more doors, but those doors would also open to a strong portfolio and resume/reputation. The latter two will actually pay you in the making of them.
B) Supply vs. demand in both these fields is completely out of whack. You must be truly exceptional, with an exceptional pedigree, to be successful in either field nowadays, and even then you must be very lucky on top of being exceptional.
C) You don't even know what it's like to work in these fields. One of the reasons I left my previously well-paid business role was that I learned fairly quickly that I need interpersonal interaction at work. Illustration/graphic design is far more isolating than people imagine when they're used to group critiques and collaborative projects; it is sitting alone at a computer or with paper for the majority of the day. Law is actually mostly the same (computer, research, writing = isolating) unless you take a public defender/constant courtroom route, which pays far less well. Both fields are again crazily competitive even for the crap jobs. (In my specific search, there was a listing this past season for a full-time non-tenure track art professor position that paid $20,000/yr that required an MFA and three years teaching experience. I did not apply for it, but I know people who did.)
D) I therefore very, very strongly urge you to get a job in your chosen field (law, art, both) before considering further education. Furthering your academic achievements is easy: it's what you're used to, it has a lot of time flexibility and people invested in your success. But it's easy because you're paying to do it and above the actual monetary cost, the opportunity cost is very high in terms of lost salary and closing out other career options through early specialization. Try out an entry level position, see if they are for you lifestyle/salary-wise, and see if you could compete with those being hired for higher level positions. You'll make money and learn a lot while doing it.
posted by vegartanipla at 12:48 PM on June 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you don't have a BFA and a killer portfolio, I think that it's a little late in the game to decide you want a career as an artist.
Just going to chime in to say that it's certainly not too late to decide you want to have a career as an artist. It just means your training/education starts now, so you'll likely need 2-4 more years of proper training if you're to be a graphic designer or illustrator. I got a BS and then turned around and did another 4 years to get an applied illustration degree at an art college.
I'm fortunate in that I now work as an art director/illustrator in a studio that pays me a salary. That's unusual. Most people in this industry are freelance, so you have to be okay with working crazy hours to promote yourself (never mind doing actual jobs) and having big swings in your income from month to month (and year to year!). Developing a freelance career is hard and takes time and perseverance. You really have to love illustrating. You have to love it more than you'll hate all the annoyances of the the illustration business (surprise: there are things you'll hate about any career you choose). I'd say that if you could easily consider life without creating art or illustration, then illustration is not for you.
Don't just pick something to make your parents happy. I know that is hard. But don't do it. This is a choice that needs to be all about you.
I totally agree with everyone that suggest working for a while. Even take three years and work three different jobs in three different industries (I know, easier said than done). But the world is full of "hidden" careers, for which there is no corresponding course in school. It helps to experience some different day-to-day job environments to figure out what you really want, and to find out what is really out there.
Sound like you have a good brain, and a strong creative urge. These complement each other. Don't think you have to make a choice between the two.
posted by Kabanos at 12:53 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just going to chime in to say that it's certainly not too late to decide you want to have a career as an artist. It just means your training/education starts now, so you'll likely need 2-4 more years of proper training if you're to be a graphic designer or illustrator. I got a BS and then turned around and did another 4 years to get an applied illustration degree at an art college.
I'm fortunate in that I now work as an art director/illustrator in a studio that pays me a salary. That's unusual. Most people in this industry are freelance, so you have to be okay with working crazy hours to promote yourself (never mind doing actual jobs) and having big swings in your income from month to month (and year to year!). Developing a freelance career is hard and takes time and perseverance. You really have to love illustrating. You have to love it more than you'll hate all the annoyances of the the illustration business (surprise: there are things you'll hate about any career you choose). I'd say that if you could easily consider life without creating art or illustration, then illustration is not for you.
Don't just pick something to make your parents happy. I know that is hard. But don't do it. This is a choice that needs to be all about you.
I totally agree with everyone that suggest working for a while. Even take three years and work three different jobs in three different industries (I know, easier said than done). But the world is full of "hidden" careers, for which there is no corresponding course in school. It helps to experience some different day-to-day job environments to figure out what you really want, and to find out what is really out there.
Sound like you have a good brain, and a strong creative urge. These complement each other. Don't think you have to make a choice between the two.
posted by Kabanos at 12:53 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
My Dad is an artist and went to Pitt on a Drama scholarship. He got his MSW at Berkeley on a scholarship and stipend. There has not been a time in my entire life when he wasn't doing art. Chisling sculptures, building sculptures, painting on doors ("the cheapest canvas in the world!") My house, my sister's house and my parents's house is full of art.
You can do art as much as you like, no matter what you choose as your career. So Do ART!
Now, getting a job. It would be nice to be employed doing something you have a passion for, but it's really unrealistic when you're starting out. I'd like to be tall and thin, it's just not in the cards.
So apply for jobs at places that seem nice, have good benefits and that will pay you appropriately.
The Law/Humanities program sounds really interesting. I'd only consider it if they pay for it, and if not being able to be hired as a lawyer at the end of it wouldn't make you unhappy. Basically, don't do it. For all the reasons listed above.
You're in luck though. If you're open minded, you'll find that whatever job you land, there will be parts of it that are really engrossing, parts of it that will teach you new, valuable skills and parts of it that will suck a haunch. BTW, that's every job, everywhere.
So pull a resume together and get out there and WORK IT!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:53 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
You can do art as much as you like, no matter what you choose as your career. So Do ART!
Now, getting a job. It would be nice to be employed doing something you have a passion for, but it's really unrealistic when you're starting out. I'd like to be tall and thin, it's just not in the cards.
So apply for jobs at places that seem nice, have good benefits and that will pay you appropriately.
The Law/Humanities program sounds really interesting. I'd only consider it if they pay for it, and if not being able to be hired as a lawyer at the end of it wouldn't make you unhappy. Basically, don't do it. For all the reasons listed above.
You're in luck though. If you're open minded, you'll find that whatever job you land, there will be parts of it that are really engrossing, parts of it that will teach you new, valuable skills and parts of it that will suck a haunch. BTW, that's every job, everywhere.
So pull a resume together and get out there and WORK IT!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:53 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
You mentioned a Ph.D.
Do you want to do research for a living?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 1:08 PM on June 7, 2013
Do you want to do research for a living?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 1:08 PM on June 7, 2013
You can always take graphic design classes if you want to sharpen your drawing/design skills. Living on artwork is very tough, you want to make sure you can do it if you really decide on it. You should definitely try your hand at a law class to see if this is something you would be interested in. Attend a class as a guest or few classes.
Get a little crazy if you want and apply to one or two most prestigious schools for both. In the meanwhile take a drawing/design class and attend a law class as a guest. See which one you like.
posted by pakora1 at 1:12 PM on June 7, 2013
Get a little crazy if you want and apply to one or two most prestigious schools for both. In the meanwhile take a drawing/design class and attend a law class as a guest. See which one you like.
posted by pakora1 at 1:12 PM on June 7, 2013
Response by poster: @MisantropicPainforest: I've entertained the idea of doing political science research (that is, if I went to graduate school for an M.A.). But all this has really derailed my hopes of even doing that right now. And as much as I would want to, I'd like to avoid piling on the amount of debt I owe in student loans (though the is the possibility of tuition remission if I worked at the school for some amount of time, and since I went to a smaller, public university, I don't owe much in loans right now...I think in total its around $22K).
posted by tammi209 at 1:25 PM on June 7, 2013
posted by tammi209 at 1:25 PM on June 7, 2013
I think you're looking for affirmation and it ain't gonna happen here.
To quote Stuart Kauffman: Just at the edge of chaos the most complex behaviours can occur - orderly enough to ensure stability, yet full of flexibility and surprises.
What we collectively seem to be saying is get yourself out and about and sample while you're young enough to recover from the experiments that were learning experiences.
posted by ptm at 6:26 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
To quote Stuart Kauffman: Just at the edge of chaos the most complex behaviours can occur - orderly enough to ensure stability, yet full of flexibility and surprises.
What we collectively seem to be saying is get yourself out and about and sample while you're young enough to recover from the experiments that were learning experiences.
posted by ptm at 6:26 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think you're looking for affirmation and it ain't gonna happen here.
Seriously. What do you want to do, OP?
And by the way, you shouldn't take on more debt to get a PhD. Really and truly - if you only get into an MA program, that is the universe's way of telling you not to go into academia. Especially in the humanities. Hard sciences, an MA might be worth it or necessary, but not for what you want to do.
If you want to work in politics, get an MA on Poli Sci. That's what my (incredibly smart and hardworking) friend did. Most of his classmates were getting PhD's, though, and he felt really overlooked by his department heads and advisors. He started working in politics before going back to school, though, so he knew what he was getting into and that he'd use the degree.
It sort of sounds like you have a lot of interests you haven't pursued much. And you know what? That's cool. I have an active mind. I like to do a lot of different things. But I haven't touched my guitar or my camera in a few months because I'm hustling for paid writing gigs and mostly unpaid acting gigs and various other boring gigs and there are only so many hours in each day.
But there's a difference between having a curious mind and just sort of having a lot of vague ideas about cool jobs you would like to have. Do your homework. Get out into the world. Figure shit out. No matter what you start out with, I can pretty much guarantee that you'll end up doing something else. Something that suits you. That is the beauty of it. We can't tell you what to do.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 7:29 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Seriously. What do you want to do, OP?
And by the way, you shouldn't take on more debt to get a PhD. Really and truly - if you only get into an MA program, that is the universe's way of telling you not to go into academia. Especially in the humanities. Hard sciences, an MA might be worth it or necessary, but not for what you want to do.
If you want to work in politics, get an MA on Poli Sci. That's what my (incredibly smart and hardworking) friend did. Most of his classmates were getting PhD's, though, and he felt really overlooked by his department heads and advisors. He started working in politics before going back to school, though, so he knew what he was getting into and that he'd use the degree.
It sort of sounds like you have a lot of interests you haven't pursued much. And you know what? That's cool. I have an active mind. I like to do a lot of different things. But I haven't touched my guitar or my camera in a few months because I'm hustling for paid writing gigs and mostly unpaid acting gigs and various other boring gigs and there are only so many hours in each day.
But there's a difference between having a curious mind and just sort of having a lot of vague ideas about cool jobs you would like to have. Do your homework. Get out into the world. Figure shit out. No matter what you start out with, I can pretty much guarantee that you'll end up doing something else. Something that suits you. That is the beauty of it. We can't tell you what to do.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 7:29 PM on June 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Other people have already told you that you shouldn't go to law school, and I agree with them. I was sort of in your position after graduating, in that I was waffling between law school and graduate school in one of my passions (history or Persian language), and decided to work for a while to figure out what I wanted to do. I sought out legal assistant/paralegal positions to get a feel for legal work and see if a career as a lawyer would be right for me. Three years later, and I am absolutely certain that a career as a lawyer is not for me, and that I do not want to take on more debt for graduate degrees in the fields I'm passionate about.
However! While my work as a paralegal isn't something that directly indulges my interest in and passion for history, it is a career where the skills I learned in the study of history are extremely valuable. If you can find similar satisfaction in using skills related to your fields of interest, then being a paralegal/legal assistant/legal secretary is actually rather rewarding work, if sometimes stressful.
If that doesn't appeal to you, then just look for jobs that you seem qualified or suited for, and work for a few years. Do creative stuff outside of work, and figure out where you fit in the workplace. If you're really interested in political science and politics, volunteer for some campaigns or political organizations. Also, consider working at an arts or law-related non-profit.
posted by yasaman at 9:17 PM on June 7, 2013
However! While my work as a paralegal isn't something that directly indulges my interest in and passion for history, it is a career where the skills I learned in the study of history are extremely valuable. If you can find similar satisfaction in using skills related to your fields of interest, then being a paralegal/legal assistant/legal secretary is actually rather rewarding work, if sometimes stressful.
If that doesn't appeal to you, then just look for jobs that you seem qualified or suited for, and work for a few years. Do creative stuff outside of work, and figure out where you fit in the workplace. If you're really interested in political science and politics, volunteer for some campaigns or political organizations. Also, consider working at an arts or law-related non-profit.
posted by yasaman at 9:17 PM on June 7, 2013
The best career advice I have ever heard is three fold. Do something that you enjoy, that you are good at, and that you can make money doing.
People (parents included) tend to ignore that third part. BUT, the third part is really important because once you fly the nest, things that you are going to want are going to cost more money than you would imagine. Not just the perks, but things like food, health insurance, transportation, and utilities. Both grad school and law school are expensive and usually do not provide substantial financial aid. As mentioned above, the market is also fully saturated with young lawyers. The last thing you want in this economy is to be entering a crummy job market with 60,000 more dollars of debt than you had after leaving undergrad.
Reason being: it is super tough for young people to get jobs right now and I'll bet that as much as you love learning about your passion, you probably like not starving more.
Nthing the people above who have suggested trying to get a job before continuing your education. This will hopefully allow you to move out (if you haven't already) and get a feel for how much it is going to cost to support yourself.
posted by donut_princess at 6:08 AM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
People (parents included) tend to ignore that third part. BUT, the third part is really important because once you fly the nest, things that you are going to want are going to cost more money than you would imagine. Not just the perks, but things like food, health insurance, transportation, and utilities. Both grad school and law school are expensive and usually do not provide substantial financial aid. As mentioned above, the market is also fully saturated with young lawyers. The last thing you want in this economy is to be entering a crummy job market with 60,000 more dollars of debt than you had after leaving undergrad.
Reason being: it is super tough for young people to get jobs right now and I'll bet that as much as you love learning about your passion, you probably like not starving more.
Nthing the people above who have suggested trying to get a job before continuing your education. This will hopefully allow you to move out (if you haven't already) and get a feel for how much it is going to cost to support yourself.
posted by donut_princess at 6:08 AM on June 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:56 AM on June 7, 2013 [4 favorites]