Jughead would know
May 30, 2013 5:48 AM Subscribe
Help me solve a friendly dispute. How are burgers normally prepared with respect to tomato products? Just a tomato slice, just ketchup, or both?
I contend that a burger only needs one tomato product (the slice or the spread), but I've been told that the typical American burger has both. Wikipedia's information on the topic is inconclusive.
How do you prepare your burgers, or how have they typically been served to you at restaurants if you haven't given specific tomato instructions?
I contend that a burger only needs one tomato product (the slice or the spread), but I've been told that the typical American burger has both. Wikipedia's information on the topic is inconclusive.
How do you prepare your burgers, or how have they typically been served to you at restaurants if you haven't given specific tomato instructions?
I don't recall ever getting ketchup in a proper burger.
It is served with a tomato slice. Ketchup is on the side.
posted by vacapinta at 5:52 AM on May 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
It is served with a tomato slice. Ketchup is on the side.
posted by vacapinta at 5:52 AM on May 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
The only time I ever use ketchup is on burgers, whether or not they include a slice or two of tomato. When I order burgers in restaurants I always tell them NO MAYO because so many place think mayo is automatic, does not even count as an add-on, yuk! The only places I've found that bring you a burger that already has ketchup on it are fast food places.
posted by mareli at 5:52 AM on May 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by mareli at 5:52 AM on May 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: What do you mean by "normally prepared"? I don't know that there's any easy to determine that, but I think you're going to have to define that phrase before the question can be answered.
posted by jedicus at 5:53 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 5:53 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Both! But I'm from Pittsburgh, where everything is best with ketchup on it.
When we moved to California my grandfather could NOT get over the idea of Mayo on a burger, just could not get over it.
FWIW, all the major burger joints put ketchup on the burger as well as tomato.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:56 AM on May 30, 2013
When we moved to California my grandfather could NOT get over the idea of Mayo on a burger, just could not get over it.
FWIW, all the major burger joints put ketchup on the burger as well as tomato.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:56 AM on May 30, 2013
Best answer: If I go to a Wendy's, Burger King, or a couple different local places and get a burger, it will have both. McDonald's and In & Out will not (In & Out uses their own sauce). Most sit-down restaurants would probably serve you a burger with the burger open faced on the plate, with all the veggie toppings stacked on top of the top part of the bun immediately adjacent - those toppings will always include tomato - and then they'll also give you ketchup if it's not already on the table.
I think in general, I'd assume that I'd be getting both unless I knew otherwise from prior experience.
posted by LionIndex at 5:58 AM on May 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think in general, I'd assume that I'd be getting both unless I knew otherwise from prior experience.
posted by LionIndex at 5:58 AM on May 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Typically a burger will have a tomato slice, then you add ketchup yourself. Any burger you get in a sit down restaurant will likely have lettuce and tomato, either on the burger or on the side, and then a bottle of Heinz ketchup sitting on the table.
Of course there is also this McDonald's Big Mac commercial... haven't had a Big Mac in years but I guess it doesn't come with a tomato slice. The jingle goes "Two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions – on a sesame seed bun."
posted by belau at 5:59 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course there is also this McDonald's Big Mac commercial... haven't had a Big Mac in years but I guess it doesn't come with a tomato slice. The jingle goes "Two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions – on a sesame seed bun."
posted by belau at 5:59 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
At most non-fast-food burger places I've been to, the toppings for a standard burger are lettuce, tomato, onion, and mayo. Mustard and ketchup you add yourself, and if you have enough stuff on your burger you usually don't add them. I dislike tomatoes and can take or leave ketchup, but putting both on a burger doesn't sound weird to me.
When I waited tables, we had ketchup on every table, but mustard was something the customer had to request. Almost all of the customers who asked for mustard had ordered a burger without mayo. Since the ketchup was already there, I have no idea how many people used it on their burgers.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:02 AM on May 30, 2013
When I waited tables, we had ketchup on every table, but mustard was something the customer had to request. Almost all of the customers who asked for mustard had ordered a burger without mayo. Since the ketchup was already there, I have no idea how many people used it on their burgers.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:02 AM on May 30, 2013
Best answer: Some places do or don't include ketchup and some places do or don't include tomatoes, but this is literally the first time I've ever heard someone posit that the two are related and that you only need one of the pair. Near as I can tell, the decision of whether or not to include each of them is completely independent.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:05 AM on May 30, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 6:05 AM on May 30, 2013 [11 favorites]
Burgers are kind of like pizza toppings. The only required things are a patty and a bun. Everything else is up to personal tastes.
That said, my vote is for both even though I don't eat tomato slices on my burgers.
posted by royalsong at 6:08 AM on May 30, 2013
That said, my vote is for both even though I don't eat tomato slices on my burgers.
posted by royalsong at 6:08 AM on May 30, 2013
Spreadable condiments should never be served on a simple burger, although this rule may be flouted for specialty burger recipes. Maybe you're one of those people who think Russian dressing belongs on a Patty Melt, or something. Otherwise, they are to be available on the side.
Sliced tomato can come standard, but should only be served when tomatoes are in season. There is nothing worse than a mealy flavorless tomato.
This is not necessarily a synopsis of things as they are. There is too much variation to claim that this is any sort of standard. This is a vision of the world as it should be.
posted by .kobayashi. at 6:12 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Sliced tomato can come standard, but should only be served when tomatoes are in season. There is nothing worse than a mealy flavorless tomato.
This is not necessarily a synopsis of things as they are. There is too much variation to claim that this is any sort of standard. This is a vision of the world as it should be.
posted by .kobayashi. at 6:12 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
The only places I've ever been given a burger that already had the ketchup on it were fast-food places. Otherwise, the burger comes with tomato (and lettuce, onion, etc.) and there is ketchup on the side. That said, I always add ketchup and mustard to the burger, even if there is already tomato, unless it is some sort of specialty burger that comes with some other sort of spreadable something on it. (I wouldn't put ketchup on a blue cheese burger.)
posted by pemberkins at 6:18 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by pemberkins at 6:18 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Most sit-down restaurants would probably serve you a burger with the burger open faced on the plate, with all the veggie toppings stacked on top of the top part of the bun immediately adjacent
But there's also no real expectation that you're going to eat it as served any more than you're going to eat your fries exactly as served.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:19 AM on May 30, 2013
But there's also no real expectation that you're going to eat it as served any more than you're going to eat your fries exactly as served.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:19 AM on May 30, 2013
I contend that a burger only needs one tomato product (the slice or the spread), but I've been told that the typical American burger has both.
Burgers come with tomatoes usually and then there is the option for ketchup on the side. I'm not a ketchup person personally but a lot of people eat burgers with both. At fast food places a burger will often come with ketchup on it and tomato is some sort of extra thing they try to charge you for. So in most cases prepared burgers don't come with both but many people eat them with both.
posted by jessamyn at 6:24 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Burgers come with tomatoes usually and then there is the option for ketchup on the side. I'm not a ketchup person personally but a lot of people eat burgers with both. At fast food places a burger will often come with ketchup on it and tomato is some sort of extra thing they try to charge you for. So in most cases prepared burgers don't come with both but many people eat them with both.
posted by jessamyn at 6:24 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Why would I want to put a perfectly good tomato on my burger when it already has onions, a fried egg and bacon?
Standard at restaurants (not fast food) around here is lettuce and tomato (sometimes a slice of onion) with catsup, mustard, mayonnaise or whatever on the side.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:34 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Standard at restaurants (not fast food) around here is lettuce and tomato (sometimes a slice of onion) with catsup, mustard, mayonnaise or whatever on the side.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:34 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
MacDonald's "special sauce" contains a bit of ketchup. Most other special sauces I've had on burgers do.
posted by muddgirl at 6:34 AM on May 30, 2013
posted by muddgirl at 6:34 AM on May 30, 2013
God no, why would you ever put ketchup on burgers that already have tomatoes??? Ketchup for me has always been the cheap stand in for when fresh tomatoes aren't around.
Otherwise at restaurants, ketchup has always been on the side. And that ketchup is for fries.
posted by astapasta24 at 6:43 AM on May 30, 2013
Otherwise at restaurants, ketchup has always been on the side. And that ketchup is for fries.
posted by astapasta24 at 6:43 AM on May 30, 2013
Best answer: Burgers come with a variety of condiments proximate, including, typically, a tomato slice and available ketchup. Putting on both the slice and the ketchup is perfectly common. I, for one, need both. They serve different purposes: ketchup adds the flavor, and the tomato slice is mostly there for textural contrast and moisture -- even a good fresh tomato is going to be drowned out, flavor-wise, by grilled beef and ketchup. So your thesis, that it is a choice between ketchup and tomato because they are both tomato products and therefore interchangeable, is incorrect.
Now I'd like a burger and it isn't even 7 am.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:56 AM on May 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
Now I'd like a burger and it isn't even 7 am.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:56 AM on May 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
Ketchup doesn't taste much like tomatoes to me (it tastes more like vinegar and whatever other spices they put in), so the two are mutually exclusive in my world.
posted by muddgirl at 6:57 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 6:57 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Confirming what everyone has already reported: In a sit-down restaurant, burgers usually come open-faced with sliced tomato, lettuce and onion, and there's usually a bottle of ketchup on the table. Fast food places usually put every damn thing on a burger by default (and half the time even if you ask them not to) including both tomatoes and ketchup.
As a heathen who likes tomatoes, but not so much in their natural form (it's a texture thing, like George Carlin said, "They don't look like they're finished developing yet!") I put ketchup on burgers all the time... but if I did like sliced tomatoes I wouldn't hesitate to put both on a burger. Until this thread it would never have occurred to me that this was a controversial thing to do.
posted by usonian at 6:58 AM on May 30, 2013
As a heathen who likes tomatoes, but not so much in their natural form (it's a texture thing, like George Carlin said, "They don't look like they're finished developing yet!") I put ketchup on burgers all the time... but if I did like sliced tomatoes I wouldn't hesitate to put both on a burger. Until this thread it would never have occurred to me that this was a controversial thing to do.
posted by usonian at 6:58 AM on May 30, 2013
Best answer: I agree with jacquilynne and fingersandtoes, I've never ever thought of ketchup and tomatoes as interchangeable or substitutes in a burger.
For me, tomatoes fall in the category of "vegetable toppings" that you choose to include based on your tastes (lettuce, pickles, tomatoes, onions, etc.) while ketchup falls in the category of "spreads" (ketchup, mustard, mayo, BBQ sauce, etc.) It's basically a mix-and-match and you choose what you like, which can certainly include both ketchup and tomatoes.
I concur with everyone on the serving styles in fast food versus sit-down restaurants. I, personally, like my burgers with lettuce, tomatoes, pickles, onions, ketchup and mustard at a minimum, with other stuff like fried eggs and bacon if I'm feeling fancy.
posted by andrewesque at 7:00 AM on May 30, 2013
For me, tomatoes fall in the category of "vegetable toppings" that you choose to include based on your tastes (lettuce, pickles, tomatoes, onions, etc.) while ketchup falls in the category of "spreads" (ketchup, mustard, mayo, BBQ sauce, etc.) It's basically a mix-and-match and you choose what you like, which can certainly include both ketchup and tomatoes.
I concur with everyone on the serving styles in fast food versus sit-down restaurants. I, personally, like my burgers with lettuce, tomatoes, pickles, onions, ketchup and mustard at a minimum, with other stuff like fried eggs and bacon if I'm feeling fancy.
posted by andrewesque at 7:00 AM on May 30, 2013
There is no "normal" preparation for a burger, despite whatever the current foodie rules du-jour might be. Once you get past the need for a patty and some sort of bread-like conveyance (usually a bun) everything else is up to whim.
Most sit-down places will bring it to you already dressed with lettuce, tomato, and (maybe) onion, but that's mostly so it 1.) Looks pretty and like you're getting something more than a flat patty, and 2.) streamlines prep in the kitchen.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:03 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Most sit-down places will bring it to you already dressed with lettuce, tomato, and (maybe) onion, but that's mostly so it 1.) Looks pretty and like you're getting something more than a flat patty, and 2.) streamlines prep in the kitchen.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:03 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
...the two aren't mutually exclusive, I meant.
posted by muddgirl at 7:14 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 7:14 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: God no, why would you ever put ketchup on burgers that already have tomatoes??? Ketchup for me has always been the cheap stand in for when fresh tomatoes aren't around.
Except they don't taste alike. I like ketchup, I don't like tomatoes. (Although, I prefer BBQ sauce.)
OP, there is no such thing as a "proper", "normal", or "correct" burger. A hamburger needs a ground beef patty and a roll, with ther rest being up to who eats it.
Tomatoes and ketchup are severed together all the time, though this may not be your preference. A sit down place will typcally put everything to the side and a bottle of ketchup on the table and it's up to you.
I don't know where people are getting this artisinal one true burger rules from, but they are idiosyncratic. As you can see, most people just assume their preference is right, and everything else is a variation.
The best answer to your question is: it's not weird, and is actually common. There is no standard, however.
posted by spaltavian at 7:22 AM on May 30, 2013
Except they don't taste alike. I like ketchup, I don't like tomatoes. (Although, I prefer BBQ sauce.)
OP, there is no such thing as a "proper", "normal", or "correct" burger. A hamburger needs a ground beef patty and a roll, with ther rest being up to who eats it.
Tomatoes and ketchup are severed together all the time, though this may not be your preference. A sit down place will typcally put everything to the side and a bottle of ketchup on the table and it's up to you.
I don't know where people are getting this artisinal one true burger rules from, but they are idiosyncratic. As you can see, most people just assume their preference is right, and everything else is a variation.
The best answer to your question is: it's not weird, and is actually common. There is no standard, however.
posted by spaltavian at 7:22 AM on May 30, 2013
I've had them served to me all three ways, but when I make one myself, I either use ketchup OR tomato, but not both.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:49 AM on May 30, 2013
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:49 AM on May 30, 2013
In my opinion this is a matter of taste. I don't particularly like large tomato slices -- especially the sort of tomatoes likely to be used at most hamburger places -- so I ask for no tomato on my burger. But I do enjoy ketchup, so I add ketchup.
I'll note that at most restaurants I have to ask for no tomato specifically, so that might be the answer right there.
posted by Sara C. at 8:04 AM on May 30, 2013
I'll note that at most restaurants I have to ask for no tomato specifically, so that might be the answer right there.
posted by Sara C. at 8:04 AM on May 30, 2013
As a child who loved burgers to a Wimpy-like level but detested mayo and ketchup, I learned early on that of the fast food chains, only Wendy's and Krystal default to mustard on the burger. Everywhere else resorts to a random seeming combination of mustard and ketchup (McD's/Hardees), ketchup and mayo (Burger King). Lettuce seems to be mostly standard, and tomatoes used to be until a recent drought and then they became extra cost at some places (Hardees and Wendy's).
Tragically, there is no accepted standard for burger toppings, although it seems nearly universal to put mayo on a cheeseburger, sadly even when I ask for it to be held. Although it helped me get over my shyness by forcing me to special order burgers at nearly every fast food restaurant in the US.
When I become ruler of the free world burgers will begin plain and the individual burger eater can prepare it the way he/she chooses. Although, all royal burgers will be served with lettuce, tomato, onion, and mustard.
posted by teleri025 at 8:06 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Tragically, there is no accepted standard for burger toppings, although it seems nearly universal to put mayo on a cheeseburger, sadly even when I ask for it to be held. Although it helped me get over my shyness by forcing me to special order burgers at nearly every fast food restaurant in the US.
When I become ruler of the free world burgers will begin plain and the individual burger eater can prepare it the way he/she chooses. Although, all royal burgers will be served with lettuce, tomato, onion, and mustard.
posted by teleri025 at 8:06 AM on May 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Your premise is flawed. There is no 'normal' burger. Think of the disparity in just the most famous burgers:
Louis' Lunch (arguably the first hamburger) has no sauce at all, and is served with onions, tomato, or cheese.
Big Mac: two all beef patties special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a sesame seed bun.
Whopper: beef, bun, mayo, lettuce, tomato, pickles, ketchup, onion.
White Castle: grilled onions and a pickle slice.
In-n-Out: meat, cheese, onion, lettuce, tomato, "spread".
Personally, if I am preparing them myself, grilled burgers get lots of stuff (onion, tomato, lettuce, ketchup, mayo, etc) but fried burgers do not.
One of the great things about a burger is that there are so many excellent ways to prepare them. Ketchup and tomato together can be delicious, but so can either separately, or neither.
posted by dirtdirt at 8:07 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Personally, if I am preparing them myself, grilled burgers get lots of stuff (onion, tomato, lettuce, ketchup, mayo, etc) but fried burgers do not.
One of the great things about a burger is that there are so many excellent ways to prepare them. Ketchup and tomato together can be delicious, but so can either separately, or neither.
posted by dirtdirt at 8:07 AM on May 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Seconding astapasta24 -- a cheap burger comes with ketchup, mustard and a pickle (I'm looking at you, BK & McDs). I would eat one of those only under duress. A proper burger (sometimes known as a $6 burger, but there are exceptions like In'n'Out) comes with lettuce and at least one slice of tomato. (But is it an edible tomato, or a tasteless supermarket tomato? Probably the latter.) Ketchup also available, of course, if you're so inclined, Ketchup is the ersatz tomato.
posted by Rash at 8:10 AM on May 30, 2013
posted by Rash at 8:10 AM on May 30, 2013
In my mind, there are two "standard" burger types: the more "fresh" tasting lettuce/tomato/mayo style, and the more "tangy" ketchup/mustard/pickle style.
To my palate, ketchup is not a cheap stand in for tomato, rather it is a way to add sweetness to a burger that you want to have a little sweetness on. There was a burger that McDonald's made a while back called the Arch Deluxe. It was odd in that it had ketchup on the bottom bun, right underneath the burger patty. When I ate the burger, I never really tasted the ketchup, but it definitely made the burger taste complete. It acts almost like a spice in a lot of cases.
(Big Mac Sauce does not contain tomatoes. It's basically a sweet mayonnaise. PDF. Also, if you ever want a little slice of delicious, order a Southern Chicken Sandwich with a shot of Mac Sauce.)
posted by gjc at 8:11 AM on May 30, 2013
To my palate, ketchup is not a cheap stand in for tomato, rather it is a way to add sweetness to a burger that you want to have a little sweetness on. There was a burger that McDonald's made a while back called the Arch Deluxe. It was odd in that it had ketchup on the bottom bun, right underneath the burger patty. When I ate the burger, I never really tasted the ketchup, but it definitely made the burger taste complete. It acts almost like a spice in a lot of cases.
(Big Mac Sauce does not contain tomatoes. It's basically a sweet mayonnaise. PDF. Also, if you ever want a little slice of delicious, order a Southern Chicken Sandwich with a shot of Mac Sauce.)
posted by gjc at 8:11 AM on May 30, 2013
Best answer: The Serious Eats/A Hamburger Today Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles. (Regional styles included.)
posted by Room 641-A at 8:18 AM on May 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:18 AM on May 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
This varies per person and also is regional. For example, many Texans feel strongly that a burger has mustard but not mayo or ketchup. I disagree, and I'm Texan. I do feel that pico de gallo belongs on a burger. So, there is no "proper" topping. It's like asking if chili is supposed to have beans -- hotly debated, no consensus.
posted by Houstonian at 8:22 AM on May 30, 2013
posted by Houstonian at 8:22 AM on May 30, 2013
A slice of tomato. Sometimes Thousand Island is included though, and that contains tomato ketchup.
posted by capricorn at 9:25 AM on May 30, 2013
posted by capricorn at 9:25 AM on May 30, 2013
Well of course there are different kinds of burgers, but a proper burger has lettuce, tomato, onion, and mustard. A burger is fatty and needs sharp flavors to balance it, like the acidity of tomato, and the bite of onion and mustard. The crunch of the onion and lettuce balance the softness of the bun and yielding texture of the burger. Ketchup has nothing to offer in this context. It only serves to dull the burger. (Similarly, cheese and mayo are simply redundant sources of bland fattiness.)
posted by HotToddy at 1:19 PM on May 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 1:19 PM on May 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 5:50 AM on May 30, 2013 [2 favorites]