FinnishTranslationFilter: need help with an English-Finnish translation.
May 27, 2013 3:16 AM Subscribe
I'm looking for a translation of the phrase "I'm sorry, but do you mind if I use English?" into Finnish, for use on a visit to Finland.
Short version:
I'm looking for a translation of the sentence "I'm sorry, but do you mind if I use English? (I don't know much Finnish)" into Finnish. It doesn't need to be a word-for-word translation, just something that sounds natural and conveys the indicated meaning.
(I've searched without much luck, and also tried using translation programmes, but the Finnish-English translated phrases I've plugged in come out pretty wonky and if I'm not going to be understood I'd prefer it to be because of my pronunciation rather than my word salad.)
Long/snowflake version (for those who are going to say 'why bother'):
This will be my third visit to Finland. Generally when I travel I like to be respectful of the culture and language, and try to learn a few phrases in the local language -- "How much is this?", "May I have the bill, please?" "Where are the toilets?", etc. -- and then usually just go with some variant of "Excuse me, but do you speak English?" for the more complicated things that I know I won't remember for a week's visit.
This usually serves me well (even when people don't speak English the inquiry seems appreciated), but the first time I visited Helsinki I realised I was often getting an amused-to-exasperated response from Finns with my "Do you speak English?", which in hindsight seems obvious as pretty much everyone I encountered spoke great English. I was trying to be polite and acknowledge that I was in their country and couldn't express myself in their language, but to at least a few people it seemed like they found the question slightly insulting. I tried a few other variants before just getting lazy and regressing into full-time English.
I'd like to give it another try -- both because it feels weird to travel to a place and not speak a word of the language, and because I find Finnish to be a really interesting language which I'd like to study when I can take on a new language project. Being able to say a fluid version of something like "Sorry, do you mind if I use English? I don't know much Finnish" seems like a more-elegant way to address the situation.
Short version:
I'm looking for a translation of the sentence "I'm sorry, but do you mind if I use English? (I don't know much Finnish)" into Finnish. It doesn't need to be a word-for-word translation, just something that sounds natural and conveys the indicated meaning.
(I've searched without much luck, and also tried using translation programmes, but the Finnish-English translated phrases I've plugged in come out pretty wonky and if I'm not going to be understood I'd prefer it to be because of my pronunciation rather than my word salad.)
Long/snowflake version (for those who are going to say 'why bother'):
This will be my third visit to Finland. Generally when I travel I like to be respectful of the culture and language, and try to learn a few phrases in the local language -- "How much is this?", "May I have the bill, please?" "Where are the toilets?", etc. -- and then usually just go with some variant of "Excuse me, but do you speak English?" for the more complicated things that I know I won't remember for a week's visit.
This usually serves me well (even when people don't speak English the inquiry seems appreciated), but the first time I visited Helsinki I realised I was often getting an amused-to-exasperated response from Finns with my "Do you speak English?", which in hindsight seems obvious as pretty much everyone I encountered spoke great English. I was trying to be polite and acknowledge that I was in their country and couldn't express myself in their language, but to at least a few people it seemed like they found the question slightly insulting. I tried a few other variants before just getting lazy and regressing into full-time English.
I'd like to give it another try -- both because it feels weird to travel to a place and not speak a word of the language, and because I find Finnish to be a really interesting language which I'd like to study when I can take on a new language project. Being able to say a fluid version of something like "Sorry, do you mind if I use English? I don't know much Finnish" seems like a more-elegant way to address the situation.
I realised I was often getting an amused-to-exasperated response from Finns with my "Do you speak English?", which in hindsight seems obvious as pretty much everyone I encountered spoke great English. I was trying to be polite and acknowledge that I was in their country and couldn't express myself in their language, but to at least a few people it seemed like they found the question slightly insulting.
Finns learn English in school. It's required, and it starts as soon as they enter school (public school starts later in Finland than in English-speaking countries). They're reacting oddly because they expect you to just speak English with them; do feel free to ask "Is it all right to speak English?" in English, asking permission beforehand is already more polite than a good deal of English speakers in the country.
phax's translations are good, but they're paradoxically good enough that using them with a Finn will make the Finn wonder why you're bothering using such proper Finnish rather than just asking in English.
Your rule of politeness is good! It's just that Finland and the Scandinavian countries are exceptions to it. By all means do use the basic Finnish you know in short day-to-day exchanges though. But if they ever get beyond your depth, just say "anteeksi... is English all right?" and it'll be fine.
posted by fraula at 4:10 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Finns learn English in school. It's required, and it starts as soon as they enter school (public school starts later in Finland than in English-speaking countries). They're reacting oddly because they expect you to just speak English with them; do feel free to ask "Is it all right to speak English?" in English, asking permission beforehand is already more polite than a good deal of English speakers in the country.
phax's translations are good, but they're paradoxically good enough that using them with a Finn will make the Finn wonder why you're bothering using such proper Finnish rather than just asking in English.
Your rule of politeness is good! It's just that Finland and the Scandinavian countries are exceptions to it. By all means do use the basic Finnish you know in short day-to-day exchanges though. But if they ever get beyond your depth, just say "anteeksi... is English all right?" and it'll be fine.
posted by fraula at 4:10 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh and another reason for odd reactions is that not everyone in Finland has Finnish as their first language - Swedish is also an official language there. It's another argument towards just switching to English. (And "sorry" works in both - spelled "sori", so you can use it in place of "anteeksi" if you don't know what the other person's first language is).
posted by fraula at 4:12 AM on May 27, 2013
posted by fraula at 4:12 AM on May 27, 2013
"but to at least a few people it seemed like they found the question slightly insulting."
Because it is, actually, insulting and shows more of your ignorance about Finland than simply not knowing the language. In Finland and across most of the Nordic countries people are expected to speak English, they do speak decent English, and it is perfectly fine to just speak in English. Asking a Finn if she can speak English is like asking her if she can read.
Kiitos (pronounced KEY-toz). "Thanks" is none the less handy to have and use.
posted by three blind mice at 4:29 AM on May 27, 2013
Because it is, actually, insulting and shows more of your ignorance about Finland than simply not knowing the language. In Finland and across most of the Nordic countries people are expected to speak English, they do speak decent English, and it is perfectly fine to just speak in English. Asking a Finn if she can speak English is like asking her if she can read.
Kiitos (pronounced KEY-toz). "Thanks" is none the less handy to have and use.
posted by three blind mice at 4:29 AM on May 27, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses so far! They're very helpful.
@three blind mice: Yeah, I realised after the first couple of people said "of course I do" that it was a rather clueless question, but at the time I was living in Romania and most of my travel was in and around that area, where English is much less common. It had become second nature to ask if people spoke English because most people I encountered didn't. Once I switched the mental gears WRT where I was it made perfect sense and I quit asking.
@fraula: I'm half Icelandic and so I'm familiar with the phenomena, as it's pretty much the same there -- just about everyone speaks perfect English. But after travelling and living in so many places it just grates on me when English speakers automatically assume that everyone they interact with will speak English. I'm aware that this is a superfluous gesture in a place like Finland but I can't get over the feeling that the polite thing to do is ask. (I do realise that in most cases this question is more for me than the person I'm interacting with.)
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 4:48 AM on May 27, 2013
@three blind mice: Yeah, I realised after the first couple of people said "of course I do" that it was a rather clueless question, but at the time I was living in Romania and most of my travel was in and around that area, where English is much less common. It had become second nature to ask if people spoke English because most people I encountered didn't. Once I switched the mental gears WRT where I was it made perfect sense and I quit asking.
@fraula: I'm half Icelandic and so I'm familiar with the phenomena, as it's pretty much the same there -- just about everyone speaks perfect English. But after travelling and living in so many places it just grates on me when English speakers automatically assume that everyone they interact with will speak English. I'm aware that this is a superfluous gesture in a place like Finland but I can't get over the feeling that the polite thing to do is ask. (I do realise that in most cases this question is more for me than the person I'm interacting with.)
posted by the luke parker fiasco at 4:48 AM on May 27, 2013
@fraula: To pick a nit, Finns are required to learn a foreign language from 3rd grade onwards, but it's not necessarily English.
posted by dst at 5:40 AM on May 27, 2013
posted by dst at 5:40 AM on May 27, 2013
Disclaimer: I'm a native (finnish-as-my-first-language) Finn who isn't from Helsinki.
Most people do speak English, true, but it's not always a given that they've had too much exposure to actually using it in real life. This goes double for anywhere that isn't Helsinki, and anyone who doesn't work in a shop, a bar or a restaurant.
So yeah, I wouldn't think it's insulting to ask. At least I would respect the effort.
Do remember that some of the bemusement might come from the actual (as a Finn might see it) polite words and phrases since those are, for the most part, optional or even superfluous. Also be careful when pronouncing the double vowels, it's something like one and a half times long as a single one, if you stretch it too far (which is an easy mistake to make) you risk sounding sarcastic. True story.
posted by phax at 5:52 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Most people do speak English, true, but it's not always a given that they've had too much exposure to actually using it in real life. This goes double for anywhere that isn't Helsinki, and anyone who doesn't work in a shop, a bar or a restaurant.
So yeah, I wouldn't think it's insulting to ask. At least I would respect the effort.
Do remember that some of the bemusement might come from the actual (as a Finn might see it) polite words and phrases since those are, for the most part, optional or even superfluous. Also be careful when pronouncing the double vowels, it's something like one and a half times long as a single one, if you stretch it too far (which is an easy mistake to make) you risk sounding sarcastic. True story.
posted by phax at 5:52 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
No expert on Finnish, but between "do you speak English?" And "is English ok?" the latter I find to be less confrontational- more "do you feel like doing this?" than "are you capable of this (possibly basic to you) thing?"
Ask it in English and either you'll hear "yes, of course!"* or figure it out pretty quick.
*I had it pointed out to me in Amsterdam once that Dutch people frequently respond to requests with a polite "of course", especially in the service industries- I.e. "of course, we'll bring you an extra blanket right away." So while to a native English speaker that response might sound like "yes, you idiot, since sixth grade", the intent might not be so snobbish as it comes off. YMMV elsewhere, but just to give them benefit of the doubt.
posted by ista at 6:06 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ask it in English and either you'll hear "yes, of course!"* or figure it out pretty quick.
*I had it pointed out to me in Amsterdam once that Dutch people frequently respond to requests with a polite "of course", especially in the service industries- I.e. "of course, we'll bring you an extra blanket right away." So while to a native English speaker that response might sound like "yes, you idiot, since sixth grade", the intent might not be so snobbish as it comes off. YMMV elsewhere, but just to give them benefit of the doubt.
posted by ista at 6:06 AM on May 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
But after travelling and living in so many places it just grates on me when English speakers automatically assume that everyone they interact with will speak English.
But this is not the case. It is not just English speakers. Germans, Dutch, Swedes would all naturally assume a Finn could speak English. You should not feel self-conscious in the least in making such an assumption just because English is your mother tongue.
posted by three blind mice at 7:07 AM on May 27, 2013
But this is not the case. It is not just English speakers. Germans, Dutch, Swedes would all naturally assume a Finn could speak English. You should not feel self-conscious in the least in making such an assumption just because English is your mother tongue.
posted by three blind mice at 7:07 AM on May 27, 2013
Certainly I'd assume that a Finn is more likely to speak English than not, but I've personally met quite a few Finns who spoke little or no English.
I only remember one occasion where I approached a Finnish stranger assuming that they'd speak English. In this case, my interlocutor was working at the lost property office of the main Helsinki train station. This being a tourist hub, and it being the height of tourist season, I thought I'd be safe diving straight into English. The conversation went like this:
Personally I'd go with a plain "puhutteko englantia?", or one of phax's formulations. And keep kiitos handy; it's always nice (IMHO) to thank people in their own language even if you can't say much more than that.
posted by pont at 10:07 AM on May 27, 2013
I only remember one occasion where I approached a Finnish stranger assuming that they'd speak English. In this case, my interlocutor was working at the lost property office of the main Helsinki train station. This being a tourist hub, and it being the height of tourist season, I thought I'd be safe diving straight into English. The conversation went like this:
Me: Excuse me, can you help? My friend left his wallet on the --Conversely, we never seemed to cause any offence starting out in Finnish.
Finnish Lady: En puhu englantia ["I don't speak English"]
[Finnish Lady glares at me, disappears into back office, does not return.]
Personally I'd go with a plain "puhutteko englantia?", or one of phax's formulations. And keep kiitos handy; it's always nice (IMHO) to thank people in their own language even if you can't say much more than that.
posted by pont at 10:07 AM on May 27, 2013
> Personally I'd go with a plain "puhutteko englantia?"
I tried that when I was in Finland, and people would start speaking to me in Finnish. I agree with those who say that "Is English OK?" is perfect and that you should stop worrying so much about it.
posted by languagehat at 12:15 PM on May 27, 2013
I tried that when I was in Finland, and people would start speaking to me in Finnish. I agree with those who say that "Is English OK?" is perfect and that you should stop worrying so much about it.
posted by languagehat at 12:15 PM on May 27, 2013
"Excuse me, do you speak English?" does sound like, to my Finnish ears at least, like you have an expectation that the other party should be able to speak English with you. Instead, I would suggest you say "I'm sorry, I don't speak Finnish." instead, thus shifting the question from expectation of service to apology for inconvenience. In Finnish that would be "Anteeksi, en puhu suomea." and then you could add "Is English OK?". I would also say that "excuse me" probably does not track as a very polite phrasing for a Finnish person.
Oh and I guess you have already done your trip to Finland so I guess this is too late, but I will add it here for future reference.
posted by Authorized User at 10:31 AM on July 2, 2013
Oh and I guess you have already done your trip to Finland so I guess this is too late, but I will add it here for future reference.
posted by Authorized User at 10:31 AM on July 2, 2013
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"Anteeksi, sopiiko jos puhun englantia?" (Sorry, is it OK if I spoke in English?) or
"Anteeksi, ei kai haittaa jos puhun englantia?" (Sorry, hopefully you don't mind if i spoke in English?").
"Anteeksi, en osaa (puhua) suomea."(Sorry, I don't know (how to speak) Finnish.).
Informally a quick "Sori, sopiiko englanti?" ("Sorry, is English fine?") will do the trick.
Regional dialects do different things, of course. Responses may vary. Can't remember ever being asked anything other than "Do you speak English?" in... English :)
posted by phax at 3:49 AM on May 27, 2013