It's not you, it's Atlanta.
May 11, 2013 10:46 AM Subscribe
A few native Atlantans have expressed this sentiment to me. What's your take?
Coincidence? On three separate occasions, three separate native Atlantans who have lived elsewhere in the country and later returned have expressed to me some form of the following sentiment:
It's hard to meet people and make friends here. Groups are more insular here than in (NYC, SF, PHL). Growing up in Atlanta, I blamed myself for having poor 'people skills.' But then I moved to (other city) and I found that I could make new friends more easily. People were friendlier. You could go out to a bar or an event by yourself, and not be seen suspiciously or pitied for being there by yourself- people would be more active about including you. You could strike up conversations with strangers. I really miss that about (other city).
I know at least a few MeFites have felt similarly.
What's your take on Atlanta as opposed to other cities? Is this just life in 21st Century Post Industrial America, or is Atlanta somehow different?
Coincidence? On three separate occasions, three separate native Atlantans who have lived elsewhere in the country and later returned have expressed to me some form of the following sentiment:
It's hard to meet people and make friends here. Groups are more insular here than in (NYC, SF, PHL). Growing up in Atlanta, I blamed myself for having poor 'people skills.' But then I moved to (other city) and I found that I could make new friends more easily. People were friendlier. You could go out to a bar or an event by yourself, and not be seen suspiciously or pitied for being there by yourself- people would be more active about including you. You could strike up conversations with strangers. I really miss that about (other city).
I know at least a few MeFites have felt similarly.
What's your take on Atlanta as opposed to other cities? Is this just life in 21st Century Post Industrial America, or is Atlanta somehow different?
Yeah, I never had that problem in Atlanta. Besides, ATL is just small enough that you start to feel like you honestly know everyone.
posted by functionequalsform at 10:59 AM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by functionequalsform at 10:59 AM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Groups are more insular here than in (NYC, SF, PHL).
NYC has notoriously insular groups. Anyone saying otherwise is being a silly billy.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:10 AM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
NYC has notoriously insular groups. Anyone saying otherwise is being a silly billy.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:10 AM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don’t see it. But I do see how someone leaves home, leaves behind their prejudices and habits, their picture of themselves and those around them, and finds it easier to break out and be more social. I can also see how they would fall back into old habits and scripts on returning.
I think the test would be to ask people who moved here from other places. I did, and I don’t see it.
posted by bongo_x at 11:23 AM on May 11, 2013 [11 favorites]
I think the test would be to ask people who moved here from other places. I did, and I don’t see it.
posted by bongo_x at 11:23 AM on May 11, 2013 [11 favorites]
I used to do this all the time, until I started thinking more rationally about it. Now I rarely do.
I find it hard to believe that, with the overall "sameness" of the US now, that there's really all that much difference. It always used to drive me insane when I'd hear people make generalizations about "the women in [City X]" all being [Trait A], or "the men in [City Y] are all [Trait C]." Barring real, solid, demographic data to back it up (which the people making these comments basically never have), it's just inane and annoying.
I get into this a lot with my wife, who talks about how she can't make friends here in Baltimore, having moved recently from the (SF) Bay area. Couldn't possibly be that she's lived there since she was nine, went to school there, went to jobs with co-workers surrounding her, while she's only been here a year and works remotely, from a home office, could it? Nahhhh, never that.
The derail was to make a point -- it's human nature (and it's easy) to blame the city/state/region, when all too often, there's a lot of other factors.
posted by CommonSense at 11:23 AM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
I find it hard to believe that, with the overall "sameness" of the US now, that there's really all that much difference. It always used to drive me insane when I'd hear people make generalizations about "the women in [City X]" all being [Trait A], or "the men in [City Y] are all [Trait C]." Barring real, solid, demographic data to back it up (which the people making these comments basically never have), it's just inane and annoying.
I get into this a lot with my wife, who talks about how she can't make friends here in Baltimore, having moved recently from the (SF) Bay area. Couldn't possibly be that she's lived there since she was nine, went to school there, went to jobs with co-workers surrounding her, while she's only been here a year and works remotely, from a home office, could it? Nahhhh, never that.
The derail was to make a point -- it's human nature (and it's easy) to blame the city/state/region, when all too often, there's a lot of other factors.
posted by CommonSense at 11:23 AM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
(same thing said about my small city, all the friggen time, fwiw)
posted by edgeways at 11:33 AM on May 11, 2013
posted by edgeways at 11:33 AM on May 11, 2013
Response by poster: huzzah for comment/username synergy!
posted by myriad gantry at 11:34 AM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by myriad gantry at 11:34 AM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Born and bred here. I've lived in Portlandia, LA, the Chapel Thrill, spent lots of time in NYC and SF. And let me tell you, we ATLiens are friendly folks. I can't even count how many new friends I've met because they liked my karaoke jam at the trucker bar, they worked at a restaurant in my neighborhood, or we just saw each other around a lot. Insular? Standoffish? Honey, that's the Bay Area, not the A.
Which isn't to say that some of the criticisms you linked aren't valid...MARTA is extremely terrible, Peachtree is goofy as all hell, and yes, Memorial does have reversible lanes (like plenty of other cities). Bad city planning isn't bad people though.
I'm typing this on my phone at the gym because I'm just that passionate about this place. People love to shit on Atlanta. We're not glamorous, we've knocked down all our old buildings and replaced them with strip malls; the traffic sucks, and white folks are scared of Boulevard, and, you know, Buckhead exists, but the people? The people are the best part of this dirty, fucked-up, glorious town.
That and the Clermont.
posted by gone2croatan at 11:35 AM on May 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
Which isn't to say that some of the criticisms you linked aren't valid...MARTA is extremely terrible, Peachtree is goofy as all hell, and yes, Memorial does have reversible lanes (like plenty of other cities). Bad city planning isn't bad people though.
I'm typing this on my phone at the gym because I'm just that passionate about this place. People love to shit on Atlanta. We're not glamorous, we've knocked down all our old buildings and replaced them with strip malls; the traffic sucks, and white folks are scared of Boulevard, and, you know, Buckhead exists, but the people? The people are the best part of this dirty, fucked-up, glorious town.
That and the Clermont.
posted by gone2croatan at 11:35 AM on May 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
8th generation Atlantan here. Gone2croatan nailed it. I've lived in other places, visited many but back in midtown and thrilled to be home. One reason that people may think this is that Atlanta has a lot of transplants, some who stay and some whose careers move them along. Low costs and the airport make this area attractive for businesses and they bring in people from all over but for just a few years or so. So there is a lot of turnover but I've never felt like anybody was unfriendly. We can't urban plan worth a shit and the traffic will cause you to peel your own skin off at times but that just makes you all the
More glad to get home and share a beer on the deck or front porch with your neighbors. Y'all come visit and you'll see.
posted by pearlybob at 11:49 AM on May 11, 2013
More glad to get home and share a beer on the deck or front porch with your neighbors. Y'all come visit and you'll see.
posted by pearlybob at 11:49 AM on May 11, 2013
native Atlantans who have lived elsewhere in the country and later returned
This is the crux of it. Of course it's easy to make friends in the place you grew up -- you already made them. Those friends didn't require any effort, because you live near them or they're your cousins or you went to school with them (which also probably means you live near them, so you could see that person like ten hours a day if you wanted).
But then you move somewhere else, and let's face it, not everyone is good at making friends as an adult. Going next door and saying "Hi, I'm Stu, let's be friends!" is weird when you're 25, but it's totally natural when you're 5. So other places don't "feel" friendly.
And then you move back home, and you find those same old friends, and of course you're still friends with them, and they have new friends, and you make friends with those people, so back home just "feels" friendlier.
posted by Etrigan at 11:53 AM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is the crux of it. Of course it's easy to make friends in the place you grew up -- you already made them. Those friends didn't require any effort, because you live near them or they're your cousins or you went to school with them (which also probably means you live near them, so you could see that person like ten hours a day if you wanted).
But then you move somewhere else, and let's face it, not everyone is good at making friends as an adult. Going next door and saying "Hi, I'm Stu, let's be friends!" is weird when you're 25, but it's totally natural when you're 5. So other places don't "feel" friendly.
And then you move back home, and you find those same old friends, and of course you're still friends with them, and they have new friends, and you make friends with those people, so back home just "feels" friendlier.
posted by Etrigan at 11:53 AM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm an ATLien for almost a year (moved here from NYC so @pourtant could go to Georgia Tech), and I love it here, though I have not had as much opportunity to make new friends as I'd like (and working to change that).
I am more than happy to meet up with any ATL MeFites for coffee or tea or whatever. There was a meetup last month that was sparsely attended.
posted by softlord at 12:26 PM on May 11, 2013
I am more than happy to meet up with any ATL MeFites for coffee or tea or whatever. There was a meetup last month that was sparsely attended.
posted by softlord at 12:26 PM on May 11, 2013
I think it comes down to where you happen to decide to live. If you're not in the right neighborhood for the kind of people you want to socialize with then it might be tricky. If you choose the right neighborhood then you'll be fine. I can't imagine that the situation is any different than in any other city.
I will say this, though, due to the way the city is laid out (roads, MARTA, etc.) it sometimes feels like communities are more insular as travel between areas can be so annoying that it's not worth it. Again, I imagine most big cities have similar issues but subjectively it felt like Atlanta was a little worse in this respect than some other cities I've lived in.
posted by bfootdav at 1:23 PM on May 11, 2013
I will say this, though, due to the way the city is laid out (roads, MARTA, etc.) it sometimes feels like communities are more insular as travel between areas can be so annoying that it's not worth it. Again, I imagine most big cities have similar issues but subjectively it felt like Atlanta was a little worse in this respect than some other cities I've lived in.
posted by bfootdav at 1:23 PM on May 11, 2013
I lived in Atlanta when I went to grad school (Georgia Tech, what up softlord), and then for a bit continued to work there while living in Woodstock (I'll spare you the long and surprisingly boring story behind that decision). I don't think it's difficult to make friends in ATL, the people are great! However, it is exceedingly difficult to SEE friends - the public transport is useless, traffic's a mess*, and because of that everyone tends to stay in their own areas** - East Atlanta, or Little 5, or whatever. I really came to dislike living there, and hope never to again. But not because I ever felt excluded by PEOPLE. I felt excluded by the design.
*Traffic is a perfect example, actually. I've never seen a city with such congestion where drivers were so nice to each other. But the individual niceness never made up for the fact that the roads simply couldn't handle the demand.
**My last year living there I discovered a LOT of different neighborhoods by volunteering, and that went a long way toward reducing my feeling of alienation from every community other than the one I was living in. There are a lot of opportunities in Atlanta for that, and I won't use this AskMe as an advertisement for the group I happened to fall in with, but anyone can feel free to MeMail me.
posted by solotoro at 3:29 PM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
*Traffic is a perfect example, actually. I've never seen a city with such congestion where drivers were so nice to each other. But the individual niceness never made up for the fact that the roads simply couldn't handle the demand.
**My last year living there I discovered a LOT of different neighborhoods by volunteering, and that went a long way toward reducing my feeling of alienation from every community other than the one I was living in. There are a lot of opportunities in Atlanta for that, and I won't use this AskMe as an advertisement for the group I happened to fall in with, but anyone can feel free to MeMail me.
posted by solotoro at 3:29 PM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
I feel that way about boston. But I also feel that way about Portland Maine. Those are the two cities I've lived in in the last decade. I'm sure it's a coincidence!
posted by sully75 at 4:04 PM on May 11, 2013
posted by sully75 at 4:04 PM on May 11, 2013
We moved here two years ago. I've lived mostly in other southeastern places. On the one hand, I've felt very welcomed and met lots of awesome people among the 20-30-something artsy nerdy politically types. I've discovered that I can go to Manuel's most nights and find some kind of meetup where I already know somebody (ymmv if you are not a big old left winger like me).
On the other hand, Atlanta is still very stratified, more so than Durham, where we moved here from. Racial separation is still a thing in practice in much of the city, and many of the newer immigrant groups tend to stick to themselves. Class also seems to be a bigger thing--we are renting in a wealthyish neighborhood where there are not other renters and, while we don't feel unwelcome, we're not exactly welcomed with open arms, either. I feel more comfortable visiting my friends in Kirkwood, EAV, or Cabbagetown. And I don't feel welcome at all in Buckhead (like they can look at me and tell that I went to public high school and they really care).
posted by hydropsyche at 4:08 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, Atlanta is still very stratified, more so than Durham, where we moved here from. Racial separation is still a thing in practice in much of the city, and many of the newer immigrant groups tend to stick to themselves. Class also seems to be a bigger thing--we are renting in a wealthyish neighborhood where there are not other renters and, while we don't feel unwelcome, we're not exactly welcomed with open arms, either. I feel more comfortable visiting my friends in Kirkwood, EAV, or Cabbagetown. And I don't feel welcome at all in Buckhead (like they can look at me and tell that I went to public high school and they really care).
posted by hydropsyche at 4:08 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I lived in Atlanta for three years. I'd say the problem isn't so much that people aren't friendly, it's that getting around can be such a pain in the ass that people that you live far away from don't want to get together because they don't want to deal with the transportation hassle. I found it like LA in that if you live on one side of town and I live on the other, we may never see each other because it can be such a hassle with traffic and everything.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 5:18 PM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 5:18 PM on May 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh boy, what a question. I moved away from Atlanta a month ago, and like solotoro I don't expect I'll ever be back. Atlanta DOES have a lot of the same problems as LA, namely that it's soooo spread out and traffic-y that leaving your neighborhood (if you're in a decent place with people/shops/food) to see friends can become a huge pain in the ass.
I'm from the Bay Area originally, and Southern friendliness really is noteworthy. (I think Berkeley is a place where you can be whoever you want to be, but that's a derail...) However, there's an undercurrent of judgement that someone not from Atlanta (or someone who has gone away for awhile) can't help but notice. QFT:
And I don't feel welcome at all in Buckhead (like they can look at me and tell that I went to public high school and they really care).
I WENT TO PRIVATE SCHOOL AND I FEEL THIS WAY. I've never felt so low as when I lived in Atlanta, if you are not a *certain way* then good luck breaking into particular social circles. There is a lot of history and culture associated with this. But again, this is true in lots of places, right?
posted by polly_dactyl at 5:31 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm from the Bay Area originally, and Southern friendliness really is noteworthy. (I think Berkeley is a place where you can be whoever you want to be, but that's a derail...) However, there's an undercurrent of judgement that someone not from Atlanta (or someone who has gone away for awhile) can't help but notice. QFT:
And I don't feel welcome at all in Buckhead (like they can look at me and tell that I went to public high school and they really care).
I WENT TO PRIVATE SCHOOL AND I FEEL THIS WAY. I've never felt so low as when I lived in Atlanta, if you are not a *certain way* then good luck breaking into particular social circles. There is a lot of history and culture associated with this. But again, this is true in lots of places, right?
posted by polly_dactyl at 5:31 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have lived in Atlanta most of my life and spent extensive time in Portland, OR. I am DYING to move to Portland and get out of ATL. I agree with others--getting around here is so terrible that it makes it hard to see the people I like. So I try to make friends with people who live close to me, and a lot of times I don't like them. I have never ever ever made friends with someone because they worked at a restaurant or lived in my neighborhood. I meet people through work, or through friends of friends. A friend visited from Kansas recently, and every single restaurant we went to, we encountered some sort of rudeness from the server. I don't know if it was just confirmation bias because I'm already cranky from living here, but it was embarrassing to have my friend expecting Southern hospitality, and getting treated the way she did. When I'm in Portland, I make friends easily, though I am willing to admit my attitude is probably much better since I'm on vacation!
Anyway, overall I feel like everyone here is in a competition to be the coolest. In Portland they obviously have their share of hipsters, but they come off as sincere. Here they seem "trying too hard" coupled with "cooler than you", which is unappealing to me.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 5:40 PM on May 11, 2013
Anyway, overall I feel like everyone here is in a competition to be the coolest. In Portland they obviously have their share of hipsters, but they come off as sincere. Here they seem "trying too hard" coupled with "cooler than you", which is unappealing to me.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 5:40 PM on May 11, 2013
Response by poster: Thank you everybody for pitching in your views. I feel I learned a lot from the shared experience of my fellow MeFites. Several of you can expect MeMailings from me.
Let me emphasize that the italicized sentiment in my original post was that of some people I know. They are not my own. I am not complaining about this city. I'm just throwing it out there to see what you think. I'm taking an informal, open-form poll here.
It sounds like an Atlanta MeFi Meetup is in order in the near future. If no one else would like to take it on, I'll be happy to. Suggestions are welcome via MeMail.
posted by myriad gantry at 7:02 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Let me emphasize that the italicized sentiment in my original post was that of some people I know. They are not my own. I am not complaining about this city. I'm just throwing it out there to see what you think. I'm taking an informal, open-form poll here.
It sounds like an Atlanta MeFi Meetup is in order in the near future. If no one else would like to take it on, I'll be happy to. Suggestions are welcome via MeMail.
posted by myriad gantry at 7:02 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have always felt exactly the opposite way n Atlanta, actually.
posted by superfille at 8:37 PM on May 11, 2013
posted by superfille at 8:37 PM on May 11, 2013
By the way, you need to live and hang out on the east side rather than Buckhead or other places. this is probably why my experience is a lot different. I find Buckhead and some of the northern suburbs scream stereotypical wealthy, southern classist nonsense. However, the east side is very different- much more open, liberal, culturally aware, etc. good luck!
posted by superfille at 8:43 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by superfille at 8:43 PM on May 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I lived in Atlanta 10 years before marrying a Canadian and moving to another country. I'm a Southern girl born and bred, and I can tell you right now the people I love the most and am closest were people I met in Atlanta. It took me a month or two to make friends when I moved there, but the ones I did are people I met there.
Also, Cabbagetown/Candler Park/Poncey-Hi for life, yo.
posted by Kitteh at 7:33 AM on May 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, Cabbagetown/Candler Park/Poncey-Hi for life, yo.
posted by Kitteh at 7:33 AM on May 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I lived in Atlanta for a little less than two years about a decade ago. Like solotoro, I hope to never go back. I didn't enjoy myself very much there, and I'd attribute it to a lot of what other people mentioned -- the public transport is awful, and there's a lot of class and race separation.
I might have enjoyed it if I had a different background, but I found Atlanta so antithetical to the cities I was used to. At the point I arrived in Atlanta, I was most familiar with New York, the nearest city to where I grew up; Chicago, where I went to college; and SF, where I have family.
The public transport in those cities are among the best in the U.S.; I think public transport lends itself to more random interactions, and people of different races and classes are more used to mixing with each other. I can't help but notice the other city you mentioned, Philly, is also relatively dense and has good public transport. When you regularly spend time in proximity to one another, it's harder to make superficial judgments.
Atlanta was my first experience with a newer, car-reliant city, and I didn't like it. I felt so isolated and alienated driving everywhere. Add to this the macho big truck driving culture of the south, and I quickly realized it wasn't for me. I even tried living in Little 5 Points, where I could walk to the Marta and take it to work, but even the Marta was a bit segregated. It was only poor people who took it.
Maybe things have changed, maybe like other American cities, it's gotten more bike-friendly. Mind you, I moved there when I was pretty much fresh out of college too, so I might have been a little more fussy than I am today. But the world is a big place, and there's no compelling reason for me to test those waters again!
I could write tomes about why Atlanta was one of the unhappiest periods in my life, but you may not want to hear me go on and on... and the pro-Atlanta crowd here might take umbrage! I read Tom Wolfe's "A Man in Full" after I left Atlanta for NYC, and he did a good job of capturing the city's peccadillos. I'd suggest giving it a read, it might help you put a finger on your misgivings as well.
posted by Borborygmus at 5:57 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I might have enjoyed it if I had a different background, but I found Atlanta so antithetical to the cities I was used to. At the point I arrived in Atlanta, I was most familiar with New York, the nearest city to where I grew up; Chicago, where I went to college; and SF, where I have family.
The public transport in those cities are among the best in the U.S.; I think public transport lends itself to more random interactions, and people of different races and classes are more used to mixing with each other. I can't help but notice the other city you mentioned, Philly, is also relatively dense and has good public transport. When you regularly spend time in proximity to one another, it's harder to make superficial judgments.
Atlanta was my first experience with a newer, car-reliant city, and I didn't like it. I felt so isolated and alienated driving everywhere. Add to this the macho big truck driving culture of the south, and I quickly realized it wasn't for me. I even tried living in Little 5 Points, where I could walk to the Marta and take it to work, but even the Marta was a bit segregated. It was only poor people who took it.
Maybe things have changed, maybe like other American cities, it's gotten more bike-friendly. Mind you, I moved there when I was pretty much fresh out of college too, so I might have been a little more fussy than I am today. But the world is a big place, and there's no compelling reason for me to test those waters again!
I could write tomes about why Atlanta was one of the unhappiest periods in my life, but you may not want to hear me go on and on... and the pro-Atlanta crowd here might take umbrage! I read Tom Wolfe's "A Man in Full" after I left Atlanta for NYC, and he did a good job of capturing the city's peccadillos. I'd suggest giving it a read, it might help you put a finger on your misgivings as well.
posted by Borborygmus at 5:57 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Etc., etc.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:52 AM on May 11, 2013 [6 favorites]