*Carrier lost*
April 29, 2013 3:15 PM Subscribe
SO has been constantly texting a new friend for months on end and it is making me uncomfortable. How much is too much?
My girlfriend and I have been together for a year and a half. About four months ago, she wrapped up work on a play and started texting Ben, a fellow crewmember. I noticed that her texting increased dramatically a week or two after the play wrapped. She also started acting secretive about her phone and made sure to carry it with her instead of leaving it lying around if she went to the kitchen or the bathroom.
I noticed that Ben’s name kept coming up in the text notifications so I brought this up to her after two weeks of solid texting. I felt that texting one person she just met with that level of frequency was inappropriate and it was making me feel uncomfortable. She acted defensive because she didn’t feel like she was doing anything wrong but she said she would stop because of how it made me feel.
Everything was fine after that until an incident a month ago. She had tempered the frequency of her texts but hadn’t stopped entirely. We had a long weekend trip planned and were taking a train to our destination. She was on her phone all the way to the train station and for the entire time we were waiting for the train to arrive. I glanced at her phone when she got an incoming text and sure enough, it was Ben. I made the mistake of confronting her right then and we had a very frosty train ride.
We had a lengthy discussion immediately after that and she agreed that the amount of texting to Ben was inappropriate but maintained that there was nothing going on between them and she had no feelings for him beyond friendship.
After that, the texting leveled off and I put the issue out of my mind until yesterday. We were out on the town and she took out her phone to check the time. I looked at her phone as well and saw an unread text message from Ben.
My problem is that I’m having a hard time ignoring my gut instinct and resolving the difference between my logical and emotional sides. I find it difficult to believe that someone can be in constant communication with another person for months on end and have that communication be totally innocuous. However, I do love and trust my girlfriend and her words carry an immense amount of weight so I’m conflicted when she tells me that nothing is going on.
She has told me that she has not seen him since the show closed and I believe her as he lives a few hours away.
I have not snooped on her phone and would never read her texts without her knowledge or request that she show them to me. The only reason I knew something was up is that she generally does not text beyond a quick conversation unless she is making plans. When I brought this whole thing up for the first time, she initially denied that she was texting only one person because she was making weekend plans with a bunch of friends but then she stopped denying it after the texting continued well after the weekend was over.
At this point I’m at a loss as to what I should do. I’ve brought this up to her at least twice and I don’t know if bringing it up again will change anything. She has many other male friends that she sees on a regular basis and I have no problem with any of them. I just…can’t shake the feeling that there’s something else going on beyond innocently texting a friend. Should I trust what she told me and ignore the fact that she’s still texting this guy or should I somehow bring it up with her again?
Potentially relevant details: We're both in our late-20s and I'm male. Ben is in his late-30s and was going through a rough divorce while the play was going on.
My girlfriend and I have been together for a year and a half. About four months ago, she wrapped up work on a play and started texting Ben, a fellow crewmember. I noticed that her texting increased dramatically a week or two after the play wrapped. She also started acting secretive about her phone and made sure to carry it with her instead of leaving it lying around if she went to the kitchen or the bathroom.
I noticed that Ben’s name kept coming up in the text notifications so I brought this up to her after two weeks of solid texting. I felt that texting one person she just met with that level of frequency was inappropriate and it was making me feel uncomfortable. She acted defensive because she didn’t feel like she was doing anything wrong but she said she would stop because of how it made me feel.
Everything was fine after that until an incident a month ago. She had tempered the frequency of her texts but hadn’t stopped entirely. We had a long weekend trip planned and were taking a train to our destination. She was on her phone all the way to the train station and for the entire time we were waiting for the train to arrive. I glanced at her phone when she got an incoming text and sure enough, it was Ben. I made the mistake of confronting her right then and we had a very frosty train ride.
We had a lengthy discussion immediately after that and she agreed that the amount of texting to Ben was inappropriate but maintained that there was nothing going on between them and she had no feelings for him beyond friendship.
After that, the texting leveled off and I put the issue out of my mind until yesterday. We were out on the town and she took out her phone to check the time. I looked at her phone as well and saw an unread text message from Ben.
My problem is that I’m having a hard time ignoring my gut instinct and resolving the difference between my logical and emotional sides. I find it difficult to believe that someone can be in constant communication with another person for months on end and have that communication be totally innocuous. However, I do love and trust my girlfriend and her words carry an immense amount of weight so I’m conflicted when she tells me that nothing is going on.
She has told me that she has not seen him since the show closed and I believe her as he lives a few hours away.
I have not snooped on her phone and would never read her texts without her knowledge or request that she show them to me. The only reason I knew something was up is that she generally does not text beyond a quick conversation unless she is making plans. When I brought this whole thing up for the first time, she initially denied that she was texting only one person because she was making weekend plans with a bunch of friends but then she stopped denying it after the texting continued well after the weekend was over.
At this point I’m at a loss as to what I should do. I’ve brought this up to her at least twice and I don’t know if bringing it up again will change anything. She has many other male friends that she sees on a regular basis and I have no problem with any of them. I just…can’t shake the feeling that there’s something else going on beyond innocently texting a friend. Should I trust what she told me and ignore the fact that she’s still texting this guy or should I somehow bring it up with her again?
Potentially relevant details: We're both in our late-20s and I'm male. Ben is in his late-30s and was going through a rough divorce while the play was going on.
Wow, that is a lot of drama. To me, the fact that she might or might not like this guy is irrelevant. The fact that she spends so much time texting him, and that she knows it's an inappropriate amount of texting is important. I would confront her, if I were you.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ask if you can all go out for drinks someday. If she doesn't want you to meet him, that's sketchy.
There's no reason she COULDN'T be platonic friends with him, but she is definitely hiding things from you. This is either because something IS going on- even if it's only emotional and not physical- or she's just irrationally worried that you THINK something is going on and doesn't trust you not to judge her, which is also a big problem if true.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
There's no reason she COULDN'T be platonic friends with him, but she is definitely hiding things from you. This is either because something IS going on- even if it's only emotional and not physical- or she's just irrationally worried that you THINK something is going on and doesn't trust you not to judge her, which is also a big problem if true.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
First of all, assuming you did it the right way, confronting her about this wasn't a mistake. (the right way is "hey this thing has been bothering me"). That's what we call communication. Her initial denial would have raised some red flags for me too, but we can't tell you why she denied the texts initially. Has she? Have you asked her?
You say you're not sure if bringing this up again will change anything -- what do you want to change? Your feelings or her behavior?
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably bring it up again, but I'd do it like this: "Hey, I realize this may sound crazy, but this thing with you and Ben texting back and forth still bothers me. I think it may have something to do with the fact that you denied that you were texting him at first -- I'm not sure why you did that, and I'd like to know. I realize that you want to have male friends and that I don't get to be all up in arms about your male friends -- I don't want you to feel like you can't communicate with other guys or I'll fly into a rage or something. But still... this situation bothers me. I just…can’t shake the feeling that there’s something else going on beyond you innocently texting a friend. Maybe I'd feel better if I met the guy? Do you have any other suggestions on how to deal with this?"
Then see what she says.
posted by craven_morhead at 3:30 PM on April 29, 2013 [10 favorites]
You say you're not sure if bringing this up again will change anything -- what do you want to change? Your feelings or her behavior?
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably bring it up again, but I'd do it like this: "Hey, I realize this may sound crazy, but this thing with you and Ben texting back and forth still bothers me. I think it may have something to do with the fact that you denied that you were texting him at first -- I'm not sure why you did that, and I'd like to know. I realize that you want to have male friends and that I don't get to be all up in arms about your male friends -- I don't want you to feel like you can't communicate with other guys or I'll fly into a rage or something. But still... this situation bothers me. I just…can’t shake the feeling that there’s something else going on beyond you innocently texting a friend. Maybe I'd feel better if I met the guy? Do you have any other suggestions on how to deal with this?"
Then see what she says.
posted by craven_morhead at 3:30 PM on April 29, 2013 [10 favorites]
My problem is that I’m having a hard time ignoring my gut instinct and resolving the difference between my logical and emotional sides.
But, it doesn't look to me like the logical and emotional sides are in conflict here at all. You've seen her directly lie to you at least twice so far:
she said she would stop because of how it made me feel ... She had tempered the frequency of her texts but hadn’t stopped entirely.
she initially denied that she was texting only one person because she was making weekend plans with a bunch of friends but then she stopped denying it after the texting continued well after the weekend was over.
And those are just the two lies that you wrote about in your question. So, logically, you've seen her lie to you multiple times, at least twice. And emotionally, you feel that she is lying. So I would say there is actually no conflict here.
You've also observed her behavior change. (Becoming secretive, texting all the time when she normally never does). It is perfectly logical to say that there must be a cause behind a major behavioral change, and to ask what that change is. There must be a cause, but she won't tell you. That's weird.
Here's what I think. I think she was "being there for" Ben with his "rough divorce." (I almost groaned out loud when I got to the line about him being in his late 30s and undergoing his rough divorce when they met. What a classic line of BS if I ever heard one). Maybe she wasn't "there for him" in any kind of physical way, but I think there is obviously something going on that's not right.
And I also think that she is completely taking you for granted. I think she totally believes she can have her cake and eat it too. That she can have her nice, stable, reliable relationship, while flaunting her exciting little illicit thing practically in your face.
Quite honestly, I think your best bet for turning this around is to suddenly dump her. No more "talking" about this issue. No more begging, no more pleading. No more trying to placate her while she's being "frosty" to you, for daring to object to the fact that she was compulsively texting her crush right in your face.
Just dump her tomorrow. I can pretty much guarantee that this guy is going to lose interest in her quite soon. Who knows if he is really even getting divorced, if that will ever happen. Anyway he lives hours away. Once she's left on her ass with just this little game to keep her company, I think she will appreciate you way more.
If she comes back after a few weeks with an apology and asks to try again, you can try again, but let her know it'll be the last time you will try.
posted by cairdeas at 3:44 PM on April 29, 2013 [39 favorites]
But, it doesn't look to me like the logical and emotional sides are in conflict here at all. You've seen her directly lie to you at least twice so far:
she said she would stop because of how it made me feel ... She had tempered the frequency of her texts but hadn’t stopped entirely.
she initially denied that she was texting only one person because she was making weekend plans with a bunch of friends but then she stopped denying it after the texting continued well after the weekend was over.
And those are just the two lies that you wrote about in your question. So, logically, you've seen her lie to you multiple times, at least twice. And emotionally, you feel that she is lying. So I would say there is actually no conflict here.
You've also observed her behavior change. (Becoming secretive, texting all the time when she normally never does). It is perfectly logical to say that there must be a cause behind a major behavioral change, and to ask what that change is. There must be a cause, but she won't tell you. That's weird.
Here's what I think. I think she was "being there for" Ben with his "rough divorce." (I almost groaned out loud when I got to the line about him being in his late 30s and undergoing his rough divorce when they met. What a classic line of BS if I ever heard one). Maybe she wasn't "there for him" in any kind of physical way, but I think there is obviously something going on that's not right.
And I also think that she is completely taking you for granted. I think she totally believes she can have her cake and eat it too. That she can have her nice, stable, reliable relationship, while flaunting her exciting little illicit thing practically in your face.
Quite honestly, I think your best bet for turning this around is to suddenly dump her. No more "talking" about this issue. No more begging, no more pleading. No more trying to placate her while she's being "frosty" to you, for daring to object to the fact that she was compulsively texting her crush right in your face.
Just dump her tomorrow. I can pretty much guarantee that this guy is going to lose interest in her quite soon. Who knows if he is really even getting divorced, if that will ever happen. Anyway he lives hours away. Once she's left on her ass with just this little game to keep her company, I think she will appreciate you way more.
If she comes back after a few weeks with an apology and asks to try again, you can try again, but let her know it'll be the last time you will try.
posted by cairdeas at 3:44 PM on April 29, 2013 [39 favorites]
IAYG
I have been in your SOs shoes. I can only speak for me, but you might find it helpful.
If you love someone but have feelings for someone else then what do you do? I mean, I know what you should do, but what I actually did was start emailing him. A lot. And I was secretive with my phone. We told each other we were just friends and we were, but we knew really we weren't. And we fought it etc but it turned into an affair.
Now I'm not saying she's having an affair, yet, but I have guy friends I'm in touch with that I wouldn't care if my SO saw. I never hid my phone before there was something to hide. And when SO read one of the texts I said it was flirting but there was nothing going on. I lied.
I am not happy in any way with any of this stuff and there's a lot of angst/therapy ongoing, for me and SO. But I wish someone had told me that it's a slippery slope and even if your gf genuinely thinks they're just friends, now, she may be wrong. And I would flat out confront her with that. Have you discussed monogamy? Is this something she can commit to? If not, can you see a compromise? If not, what do you want to do?
This is all very dramatic I know but the red sirens are flashing in my head. If it helps, from my experience it doesn't mean you feel one bit less for the person you're with, but that's the bit you think they'll never understand. Most people don't. I don't know if you can.
posted by outoftime at 3:46 PM on April 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
I have been in your SOs shoes. I can only speak for me, but you might find it helpful.
If you love someone but have feelings for someone else then what do you do? I mean, I know what you should do, but what I actually did was start emailing him. A lot. And I was secretive with my phone. We told each other we were just friends and we were, but we knew really we weren't. And we fought it etc but it turned into an affair.
Now I'm not saying she's having an affair, yet, but I have guy friends I'm in touch with that I wouldn't care if my SO saw. I never hid my phone before there was something to hide. And when SO read one of the texts I said it was flirting but there was nothing going on. I lied.
I am not happy in any way with any of this stuff and there's a lot of angst/therapy ongoing, for me and SO. But I wish someone had told me that it's a slippery slope and even if your gf genuinely thinks they're just friends, now, she may be wrong. And I would flat out confront her with that. Have you discussed monogamy? Is this something she can commit to? If not, can you see a compromise? If not, what do you want to do?
This is all very dramatic I know but the red sirens are flashing in my head. If it helps, from my experience it doesn't mean you feel one bit less for the person you're with, but that's the bit you think they'll never understand. Most people don't. I don't know if you can.
posted by outoftime at 3:46 PM on April 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
As I was reading through your question, I was saying "huh, I bet Ben's married" to myself, and when I got to the last line and saw that he had been going through a rough divorce, it was enough for me conclude that she's probably just waiting for him to be free before she makes a play for him, but wants to hold onto you in case things don't work out.
Disentangle yourself as much as possible and get ready, because I don't think this is going to turn out to be a comedy.
In the long run, I think you'll be happier with someone who chooses you and isn't merely killing time until someone better comes along.
posted by jamjam at 3:53 PM on April 29, 2013 [18 favorites]
Disentangle yourself as much as possible and get ready, because I don't think this is going to turn out to be a comedy.
In the long run, I think you'll be happier with someone who chooses you and isn't merely killing time until someone better comes along.
posted by jamjam at 3:53 PM on April 29, 2013 [18 favorites]
Ask if you can all go out for drinks someday. If she doesn't want you to meet him, that's sketchy.
For some people in some situations, this works. In other situations, this kind of meeting just helps the [girlfriend] remain convinced that what [she] is doing is okay because it isn't actually an affair. "Because hey, if I were having an affair, I wouldn't have introduced them, right? So I'm still not doing anything wrong!"
Suggesting an introduction is definitely a possibility to consider, but it isn't a litmus test. It can also just be enabling.
posted by cribcage at 3:54 PM on April 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
For some people in some situations, this works. In other situations, this kind of meeting just helps the [girlfriend] remain convinced that what [she] is doing is okay because it isn't actually an affair. "Because hey, if I were having an affair, I wouldn't have introduced them, right? So I'm still not doing anything wrong!"
Suggesting an introduction is definitely a possibility to consider, but it isn't a litmus test. It can also just be enabling.
posted by cribcage at 3:54 PM on April 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
Good answers up above but what you have to think about is if you are generally a difficult guy. If part of your relationship is you making her feel guilty about small things, then she has a reason to hide small things from you. But if you're generally ok about friendships outside of the relationship, differing interests etc, then yeah, bring it up to her. In that : "this is making me uncomfortable, please explain where we are" kind of way.
I must say you sound like the second sort of person in your question. Good luck - guilt (hers?) is not a very good bonding mechnism.
posted by glasseyes at 3:59 PM on April 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
I must say you sound like the second sort of person in your question. Good luck - guilt (hers?) is not a very good bonding mechnism.
posted by glasseyes at 3:59 PM on April 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Just dump her.
Too many lies, half truths, and it's clear she's emotionally more entangled with others than with you.
You can't have productive communication with someone who dissembles and lies. I don't see how you can fix this. Just dump her and get it over with.
Sorry this is happening.
posted by jbenben at 4:06 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Too many lies, half truths, and it's clear she's emotionally more entangled with others than with you.
You can't have productive communication with someone who dissembles and lies. I don't see how you can fix this. Just dump her and get it over with.
Sorry this is happening.
posted by jbenben at 4:06 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think you need to bring it up to her again, and I think you need to be very clear about how much this is bothering you. I would agree with craven_morehead's suggested approach if this were the first time you were saying anything, but in light of your girlfriend's past deceptive behavior (as pointed out by cairdeas) I think it's too deferential at this point. Instead, I think you should open the conversation by simply telling her that her relationship with Ben is making you uncomfortable. Then see how she responds to that -- is she defensive/full of excuses, or is she receptive to your concerns? This should inform what you decide to do about the relationship.
Having said that, I agree with cairdeas that it's probably better just to break up with her. I could have written your question almost word for word when I was with my ex, including the parts where I struggled to hide my own feelings of discomfort and jealousy because I didn't want to be That Bitchy Girlfriend who didn't let her boyfriend have friends of the opposite sex. Would it shock you to learn that he was cheating on me with the Texting Person all along?
posted by Carmelita Spats at 4:07 PM on April 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
Having said that, I agree with cairdeas that it's probably better just to break up with her. I could have written your question almost word for word when I was with my ex, including the parts where I struggled to hide my own feelings of discomfort and jealousy because I didn't want to be That Bitchy Girlfriend who didn't let her boyfriend have friends of the opposite sex. Would it shock you to learn that he was cheating on me with the Texting Person all along?
posted by Carmelita Spats at 4:07 PM on April 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure she doesn't still have strong feelings for you, but this reeks of an emotional affair. Who knows what they're talking about (books, sports, movies, relationships), but she does seem way too attached to the relationship she is not currently in. I can only speculate that it's some thrill of novelty. Does your girlfriend have a history of flirtatious behavior? Is she secretive about other things?
As for your plan of action, I'd ask myself how I feel about it and tell her, using "I" statements and vulnerable emotions. "I feel threatened that you have a significant relationship with this guy. I feel shut out when you hide your phone from me. I'm afraid that you'll leave/are distracted. How do you feel?"
If she gets defensive, calls you a baby, or treats it like it's your jealousy problem, that's a good sign to leave. And if she cuts off contact, will you still trust her? Does that treat the symptom or the problem? I (mostly) believe that she isn't blatantly cheating, but she also is not paying heed to your emotional needs. A relationship needs more stability than that.
posted by Turkey Glue at 4:11 PM on April 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
As for your plan of action, I'd ask myself how I feel about it and tell her, using "I" statements and vulnerable emotions. "I feel threatened that you have a significant relationship with this guy. I feel shut out when you hide your phone from me. I'm afraid that you'll leave/are distracted. How do you feel?"
If she gets defensive, calls you a baby, or treats it like it's your jealousy problem, that's a good sign to leave. And if she cuts off contact, will you still trust her? Does that treat the symptom or the problem? I (mostly) believe that she isn't blatantly cheating, but she also is not paying heed to your emotional needs. A relationship needs more stability than that.
posted by Turkey Glue at 4:11 PM on April 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
For background, I am a married woman. I had a guy best friend for 7 years. (I had to dump him as things got a bit out of hand.) However, my husband was fine with it. We would chat and text a lot, along with Skype. My husband would joke "Oh you're going to Skype with your boyfriend??" And we would both burst out laughing because there was no attraction on my end and he was kind of like a brother.
HOWEVER I never hid anything from my husband. I even made him read some of the texts or read my conversations to him. I even told him when I asked my guy friend how to deal with my husband. I would openly say, "Husband, I asked Joe how to deal with this issue in our relationship today.."
I run my marriage in this way:
If I would not say it to, or in front of my husband, it shouldn't be said or encouraged to be said by the other person.
That's not saying that she needs to divulge all of her conversations. I mean I understand if she were talking about something that you do that is annoying her and she doesn't want to talk about it. BUT she should at least be able to tell you what they talk about in general.
I would be feeling fishy about it to. I think a big part of why you are now getting frustrated with even a single text is that you clearly don't seem to know what they are even talking about, which is the fishy part to me. It she feels that she has something to hide. Especially the bit about her taking her phone with her. Big red flag there.
I pretty much have an open phone policy and my husband has read my texts for me - even from that guy best friend - if I were like getting ready or taking a bath or something. Some people are not this open, but they shouldn't specifically be hiding something.
How to handle it. This is what I think you should talk about.
"I love you and trust you. I feel that you are hiding things from me about what you and Ben discuss. I am not saying I need to know everything that happens in your conversations, but not knowing why you are hiding it from me is making me uncomfortable. I would feel much more comfortable with your relationship with Ben if I knew more about him, what you discussed, and could possibly meet him."
You could even add something like, "I feel that if you can't tell me what you are talking to Ben about, then you maybe shouldn't be talking about it, or you are not being loyal to our relationship."
If she gets extremely defensive, there is probably something not okay going on. In that case she would be defending her relationship with Ben above your relationship with her. You can then decide how to go about the relationship. Personally I think she's lying and/or not being loyal to your relationship.
posted by Crystalinne at 4:12 PM on April 29, 2013 [9 favorites]
HOWEVER I never hid anything from my husband. I even made him read some of the texts or read my conversations to him. I even told him when I asked my guy friend how to deal with my husband. I would openly say, "Husband, I asked Joe how to deal with this issue in our relationship today.."
I run my marriage in this way:
If I would not say it to, or in front of my husband, it shouldn't be said or encouraged to be said by the other person.
That's not saying that she needs to divulge all of her conversations. I mean I understand if she were talking about something that you do that is annoying her and she doesn't want to talk about it. BUT she should at least be able to tell you what they talk about in general.
I would be feeling fishy about it to. I think a big part of why you are now getting frustrated with even a single text is that you clearly don't seem to know what they are even talking about, which is the fishy part to me. It she feels that she has something to hide. Especially the bit about her taking her phone with her. Big red flag there.
I pretty much have an open phone policy and my husband has read my texts for me - even from that guy best friend - if I were like getting ready or taking a bath or something. Some people are not this open, but they shouldn't specifically be hiding something.
How to handle it. This is what I think you should talk about.
"I love you and trust you. I feel that you are hiding things from me about what you and Ben discuss. I am not saying I need to know everything that happens in your conversations, but not knowing why you are hiding it from me is making me uncomfortable. I would feel much more comfortable with your relationship with Ben if I knew more about him, what you discussed, and could possibly meet him."
You could even add something like, "I feel that if you can't tell me what you are talking to Ben about, then you maybe shouldn't be talking about it, or you are not being loyal to our relationship."
If she gets extremely defensive, there is probably something not okay going on. In that case she would be defending her relationship with Ben above your relationship with her. You can then decide how to go about the relationship. Personally I think she's lying and/or not being loyal to your relationship.
posted by Crystalinne at 4:12 PM on April 29, 2013 [9 favorites]
It's also possible that she's not even aware of her actual feelings; that she's deceiving herself and believes her friendship with Ben is within normal bounds, and further that you're being jerky for putting her on a leash and suspecting her, when nothing's happened, according to her. (I think it's entirely possible that no one here has taken concrete sexual action, fwiw.) And meanwhile she's feeding the dynamic, and probably resenting you for making her feel guilty (and also, for interrupting what she might not know she's loving).
What can you do? Not a lot, this train's en route. You've already talked to her. Going into further detail about your hurt might well inspire contempt, if she's emotionally invested in this not-friendship (because, she hasn't done anything, right?). Options are 1) let her go or 2) wait her out. He lives far enough away that things might never kick in between them. Or they will, and she'll dump you.
Best case scenario if you wait: it will take time and be ugly for a bit. Worst case: she dumps you and you'll have wasted a lot of time (between now and being dumped, plus getting over it). Medium benefit scenario: you dump her. All depends on how strongly you feel about her, your history together (as a constraining bond/investment), and her level of self-awareness. You can't force it. Just decide.
posted by nelljie at 4:15 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
What can you do? Not a lot, this train's en route. You've already talked to her. Going into further detail about your hurt might well inspire contempt, if she's emotionally invested in this not-friendship (because, she hasn't done anything, right?). Options are 1) let her go or 2) wait her out. He lives far enough away that things might never kick in between them. Or they will, and she'll dump you.
Best case scenario if you wait: it will take time and be ugly for a bit. Worst case: she dumps you and you'll have wasted a lot of time (between now and being dumped, plus getting over it). Medium benefit scenario: you dump her. All depends on how strongly you feel about her, your history together (as a constraining bond/investment), and her level of self-awareness. You can't force it. Just decide.
posted by nelljie at 4:15 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Just walk. No second chances, no opening the door to excuses, no nothing. Dishonesty is a dealbreaker and a red flag and I'm sorry you've had to deal with it. There are plenty of women in the world.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 4:23 PM on April 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 4:23 PM on April 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
This isn't worth the effort or the drama. Break up with her and make it very clear you want no contact. Her behavior is immature and wrong. Trust your gut. I bet Ben doesn't even know you exist even if your GF says she's told him you do.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:32 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:32 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I disagree with the "just dump her" arguments - this is someone the OP has been dating for a year and a half; dumping someone without having even a conversation and being absolutely sure is as mature and reasonable as hiding texts and being secretive.
--
That having been said -- when a similar situation has happened in the past, I've looked back and realized that the distrust created through lies has really been the origin for the trouble and the (eventual) breakup. Alternately, there have been occasions when something happened with someone outside of the relationship, and either I or the person I was dating at the time was direct, straightforward, and honest about it -- and we got over it because we trusted each other.
It sounds like you're having a hard time trusting her (understandably), since she's obviously hiding something.
I think you should bring it up with her. Make the issue about trust, not about "what's going on with Ben". If she says "nothing's going on, I'm not doing anything wrong", then mention that it's about you, and that you want to communicate openly and clearly about her relationship with Ben.
On preview, Crystalline is right on the dot:
"I love you and trust you. I feel that you are hiding things from me about what you and Ben discuss. I am not saying I need to know everything that happens in your conversations, but not knowing why you are hiding it from me is making me uncomfortable. I would feel much more comfortable with your relationship with Ben if I knew more about him, what you discussed, and could possibly meet him."
posted by suedehead at 4:36 PM on April 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
--
That having been said -- when a similar situation has happened in the past, I've looked back and realized that the distrust created through lies has really been the origin for the trouble and the (eventual) breakup. Alternately, there have been occasions when something happened with someone outside of the relationship, and either I or the person I was dating at the time was direct, straightforward, and honest about it -- and we got over it because we trusted each other.
It sounds like you're having a hard time trusting her (understandably), since she's obviously hiding something.
I think you should bring it up with her. Make the issue about trust, not about "what's going on with Ben". If she says "nothing's going on, I'm not doing anything wrong", then mention that it's about you, and that you want to communicate openly and clearly about her relationship with Ben.
On preview, Crystalline is right on the dot:
"I love you and trust you. I feel that you are hiding things from me about what you and Ben discuss. I am not saying I need to know everything that happens in your conversations, but not knowing why you are hiding it from me is making me uncomfortable. I would feel much more comfortable with your relationship with Ben if I knew more about him, what you discussed, and could possibly meet him."
posted by suedehead at 4:36 PM on April 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
When I was in my 20's I got into a thing where I felt like I have to somehow prove that my SO was cheating so I could feel justified in leaving. I mean, I knew she was, but I didn't have anything solid. I ended up doing some moderately creepy things that I regret. It's one of the only things I've ever done in a relationship that I regret.
I'm telling you to leave - because your gut is correct here - but I won't blame you if you don't. But I'm really, really telling you not to let this consume you to where you turn into the Sherlock Holmes of cheating SO's and do something you don't feel great about.
I know how this feels. I wish you the best.
posted by ftm at 4:59 PM on April 29, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'm telling you to leave - because your gut is correct here - but I won't blame you if you don't. But I'm really, really telling you not to let this consume you to where you turn into the Sherlock Holmes of cheating SO's and do something you don't feel great about.
I know how this feels. I wish you the best.
posted by ftm at 4:59 PM on April 29, 2013 [9 favorites]
Here's something else. Why is this guy, Ben, so interested in a girl who lives hours away and has a boyfriend when there are plenty of other single girls around? I think often, guys who seek out that sort of situation just want to play games that have no strings attached. Where nothing can rightly be expected of them. Where they have no responsibilities. Where the woman is independent from him, with her own life, and he can just enjoy her sometimes when it's fun. And he can have his own life the rest of the time where he doesn't answer to anyone.
Women often have no clue/are in denial about this. They feel Special. They feel like they have A Connection with the man. They feel like all that needs to happen is that witchy ex-wife needs to stop delaying things so she and the guy can finally be together and live happily ever after. The thing is, that's never going to happen.
My bet is, Ben would RUN like the wind the minute you broke up with your gf, and she started relying on Ben for anything, putting expectations on him, making him the center of her world, or trying to fit him into any of the slots normally occupied by you.
posted by cairdeas at 5:03 PM on April 29, 2013 [21 favorites]
Women often have no clue/are in denial about this. They feel Special. They feel like they have A Connection with the man. They feel like all that needs to happen is that witchy ex-wife needs to stop delaying things so she and the guy can finally be together and live happily ever after. The thing is, that's never going to happen.
My bet is, Ben would RUN like the wind the minute you broke up with your gf, and she started relying on Ben for anything, putting expectations on him, making him the center of her world, or trying to fit him into any of the slots normally occupied by you.
posted by cairdeas at 5:03 PM on April 29, 2013 [21 favorites]
My inner sirens would be sounding as well. If it were some benign relationship, she'd likely share with you about it and certainly wouldn't be so attentive to the location of her cellphone (taking it everywhere, etc). Does she realize how serious this is for you? Does she realize that you are getting more and more sure that she's having an emotional affair?
The problem isn't that she has an intense friendship, it's that she's deceptive and super-involved in it while not sharing anything about it with you. You don't need to know every detail of Ben's life or his discussions with her, but the fact that she's shared none of it with you is a bit weird.
Trust your gut. Tell her what your gut is saying. If she gets defensive and isn't willing to own up to what's going on, it would probably be best to leave.
I'm of the opinion that during a long-term relationship, each partner will meet people on whom they crush and feel a strong attraction. That's ok and it's par for the course. What is unacceptable is to engage that crush in a way that is not respectful of your commitments to your partner. Sure, it takes self control to wait out a crush and not be impulsive and disrespectful of your partner. If you two stay together, this will happen again. So far, she's shown that she doesn't handle the self-control aspects well. Sure, she probably hasn't technically been physical with him, but she seems to be indulging the crush far beyond what you're comfortable with while being deceptive and protective of it, and that's not ok.
posted by quince at 5:06 PM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
The problem isn't that she has an intense friendship, it's that she's deceptive and super-involved in it while not sharing anything about it with you. You don't need to know every detail of Ben's life or his discussions with her, but the fact that she's shared none of it with you is a bit weird.
Trust your gut. Tell her what your gut is saying. If she gets defensive and isn't willing to own up to what's going on, it would probably be best to leave.
I'm of the opinion that during a long-term relationship, each partner will meet people on whom they crush and feel a strong attraction. That's ok and it's par for the course. What is unacceptable is to engage that crush in a way that is not respectful of your commitments to your partner. Sure, it takes self control to wait out a crush and not be impulsive and disrespectful of your partner. If you two stay together, this will happen again. So far, she's shown that she doesn't handle the self-control aspects well. Sure, she probably hasn't technically been physical with him, but she seems to be indulging the crush far beyond what you're comfortable with while being deceptive and protective of it, and that's not ok.
posted by quince at 5:06 PM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
I have to disagree with people suggesting the OP ask to meet Ben. Ordinarily that might work, but the guy's four hours away. The girlfriend will agree, but the meeting will never take place because of logistics, or plane ticket prices, or whatever, and in the meantime the OP sits in limbo with that awful uneasy feeling.
I think if I were in your shoes, OP, I would break up with her. Something's up. You've given her chances. I think if the relationship were truly innocent she would have addressed your concerns with less secrecy, not more. You don't have to dump her without an explanation, but extracting yourself from the situation now might save you a lot of unhappiness in the long run.
posted by AV at 5:23 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think if I were in your shoes, OP, I would break up with her. Something's up. You've given her chances. I think if the relationship were truly innocent she would have addressed your concerns with less secrecy, not more. You don't have to dump her without an explanation, but extracting yourself from the situation now might save you a lot of unhappiness in the long run.
posted by AV at 5:23 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
From an anonymous commenter:
I was unhappily married when I met someone and she and I hit it off. We started texting constantly, to the point that my wife noticed the hundreds of text a week on our cell phone bills. She accused me of having an "emotional affair," and she was probably right-- although I never had a physical relationship outside of our marriage, within six months of the texts starting my wife and I ended up getting divorced, and I moved on almost immediately to my texting buddy. We've been together happily ever since. Make of this random data point what you will.posted by restless_nomad at 5:38 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I went through this, OP, and the relief I felt when I was no longer in a relationship with someone I could not trust was immense. No more twisting my brain into pretzels trying to rewrite my understanding of what it meant to love and trust someone. No more having to wonder who those messages were from. No more wondering where all the weird comments at gatherings with mutual friends were coming from. No more wondering what else I could do to fix this relationship that my "partner" was continuing to break. My life went from a very small world of being hyper aware of text messages and lonely nights waiting for my partner to go home to a big world where I had real ambitions for my future.
I'm not saying you should break up with her, but I think it should be on the table.
posted by sockomatic at 5:40 PM on April 29, 2013 [11 favorites]
I'm not saying you should break up with her, but I think it should be on the table.
posted by sockomatic at 5:40 PM on April 29, 2013 [11 favorites]
She would rather text Ben than keep from hurting you.
She will hurt you just to text Ben.
When I put it like that, it's pretty clear what to do, right? I think you've been more than patient, you've tried to address this, you've extended benefit of the doubt. The time you spent typing out your question is more than what's she's spent worrying about this issue.
posted by Houstonian at 6:28 PM on April 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
She will hurt you just to text Ben.
When I put it like that, it's pretty clear what to do, right? I think you've been more than patient, you've tried to address this, you've extended benefit of the doubt. The time you spent typing out your question is more than what's she's spent worrying about this issue.
posted by Houstonian at 6:28 PM on April 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
I've been in this situation twice, in your shoes. Instance one, there were lots of texts and conversations but they were "just friends." Eventually I found a text that was more than friends (but less than physical). The text was about holding hands. The relationship ended over that text, but really it ended over the whole emotional affair, and the distrust and disrespect surrounding it.
The second time, my SO was always hiding the phone, taking it into the bathroom, etc. It turned out they were really hung up on someone else and we broke up because of that person.
I'm not saying you should dump your girlfriend right away, but when this is happening, often if it's not resolved it leads to a situation where a breakup ensues. A person who's texting someone else all that much is not emotionally there for you. Not as much as she should be, or as someone would be who is putting your relationship as a first priority. Especially if she's lied about it and you've had multiple conversations and it hasn't stopped.
In both cases with me, there were small lies about it. My SOs were not liars in general, but they lied about this, in small ways, and that was a red flag that something was up.
posted by htid at 6:49 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
The second time, my SO was always hiding the phone, taking it into the bathroom, etc. It turned out they were really hung up on someone else and we broke up because of that person.
I'm not saying you should dump your girlfriend right away, but when this is happening, often if it's not resolved it leads to a situation where a breakup ensues. A person who's texting someone else all that much is not emotionally there for you. Not as much as she should be, or as someone would be who is putting your relationship as a first priority. Especially if she's lied about it and you've had multiple conversations and it hasn't stopped.
In both cases with me, there were small lies about it. My SOs were not liars in general, but they lied about this, in small ways, and that was a red flag that something was up.
posted by htid at 6:49 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is how my current husband became someone's ex-husband. He said, "I wanted to be the cool partner, to trust her and let her have a life of her own. It started out not that threatening, with L. communicating with our other friend J. about writing, which they both did. J. and his wife were our mutual friends. It progressed to me standing by and watching L. giggle and say, 'Oh, I probably shouldn't show you this.' A few months later, they were planning rendezvous trips. And I stood by, even though I had a gut feeling, because I didn't want to be the 'jealous type.'"
It got even worse when, a few years later, we saw the same thing literally happen in front of us: a girl getting giggly and secretive over texts, her husband standing by not knowing how to act. And a year later, their marriage was over, the other couple were kaput after five years, and my husband and I had run far, far away from all four of them.
Because that kind of behavior doesn't just affect the partners involved. Your close friends have almost certainly noticed it already and are wondering what to do or say. Picking sides is never fun, but the things that really ended my part in the friendships was when the giggler and the guy who made her giggle asked me for serious advice. They told me how much they valued my opinions, and that I was absolutely right, and then they went off and did the opposite, leaving their friends and partners feeling used and disrespected.
So yeah. Listen to your gut. You'll easily see what's most important to your partner, and it might not be you.
posted by Madamina at 6:59 PM on April 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
It got even worse when, a few years later, we saw the same thing literally happen in front of us: a girl getting giggly and secretive over texts, her husband standing by not knowing how to act. And a year later, their marriage was over, the other couple were kaput after five years, and my husband and I had run far, far away from all four of them.
Because that kind of behavior doesn't just affect the partners involved. Your close friends have almost certainly noticed it already and are wondering what to do or say. Picking sides is never fun, but the things that really ended my part in the friendships was when the giggler and the guy who made her giggle asked me for serious advice. They told me how much they valued my opinions, and that I was absolutely right, and then they went off and did the opposite, leaving their friends and partners feeling used and disrespected.
So yeah. Listen to your gut. You'll easily see what's most important to your partner, and it might not be you.
posted by Madamina at 6:59 PM on April 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Once I did something that my boyfriend didn't understand and didn't like.
He sat me down and grilled me. Endlessly. Like, for an unreasonable amount of time. (Like an ENTIRE DAY.) He talked about this and asked me about it until finally he felt 1000% comfortable and relaxed about it. And then he was done with his inquiry, because he felt absolutely secure and solid about it.
Because I'm an amazing person, OBVIOUSLY, and because I hadn't done anything wrong, except unknowingly infringe upon his privacy, I saw him through this process and learned a lot in the doing. I learned about what was important to him, and how I should treat him, and what kind of behavior on my part would trigger him not feeling good about things. And he learned a lot about me, and how I responded to such a situation. It was great, in the end! I'd never done that with someone. I'd just made assumptions and stewed, mostly.
Go for it with her. Go deep and do it right, until you're done with it. If she's not willing to go through that process with you, or can't make the case that she has an awesome dude friend that she likes talking to, then you have a problem.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 7:25 PM on April 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
He sat me down and grilled me. Endlessly. Like, for an unreasonable amount of time. (Like an ENTIRE DAY.) He talked about this and asked me about it until finally he felt 1000% comfortable and relaxed about it. And then he was done with his inquiry, because he felt absolutely secure and solid about it.
Because I'm an amazing person, OBVIOUSLY, and because I hadn't done anything wrong, except unknowingly infringe upon his privacy, I saw him through this process and learned a lot in the doing. I learned about what was important to him, and how I should treat him, and what kind of behavior on my part would trigger him not feeling good about things. And he learned a lot about me, and how I responded to such a situation. It was great, in the end! I'd never done that with someone. I'd just made assumptions and stewed, mostly.
Go for it with her. Go deep and do it right, until you're done with it. If she's not willing to go through that process with you, or can't make the case that she has an awesome dude friend that she likes talking to, then you have a problem.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 7:25 PM on April 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
You sound mature and respectful to me. I agree that it's likely she's having at least an emotional affair, though she may be in denial that it's a threat to your relationship.
No one else has suggested this, but in your shoes, I'd ask to see the text chain. It might help make things clearer. If she won't show it freely, well, that means they are probably not totally innocuous.
I do think, regardless, that her attention to anything everything but you, even while you're traveling together on a special trip, is sort of sad and indicates a big degree of distance might be present, even if it's a friend thing. This lack of intimacy and connection is a fine reason to be rethinking the relationship, even without dealing with who's on the other end of the phone.
posted by Miko at 7:27 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
No one else has suggested this, but in your shoes, I'd ask to see the text chain. It might help make things clearer. If she won't show it freely, well, that means they are probably not totally innocuous.
I do think, regardless, that her attention to anything everything but you, even while you're traveling together on a special trip, is sort of sad and indicates a big degree of distance might be present, even if it's a friend thing. This lack of intimacy and connection is a fine reason to be rethinking the relationship, even without dealing with who's on the other end of the phone.
posted by Miko at 7:27 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Miko: "No one else has suggested this, but in your shoes, I'd ask to see the text chain. It might help make things clearer. If she won't show it freely, well, that means they are probably not totally innocuous."
I never thought I'd suggest something like this, but, considering the dishonesty, I might agree with Miko. There is always the chance, however, that she would delete any obviously illicit messages out of fear that you would end up sneakily reading them one day (or request to read them non-sneakily).
posted by Defenestrator at 7:35 PM on April 29, 2013
I never thought I'd suggest something like this, but, considering the dishonesty, I might agree with Miko. There is always the chance, however, that she would delete any obviously illicit messages out of fear that you would end up sneakily reading them one day (or request to read them non-sneakily).
posted by Defenestrator at 7:35 PM on April 29, 2013
To clarify, I'm recommending asking her while she is there, not snooping. You might ask right after you've observed a long exchange.
posted by Miko at 7:37 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:37 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Your girlfriend might be being dishonest, but I really don't get the "just dump her" crowd here. Curious if folks saying that have been in long term relationships! Maybe you will eventually break up, but shit, all relationships go through weird and hard shit.
I think at this point though you do need to have a very explicit conversation about what's going on, ie: "I can't say exactly why, but my gut feeling is really uncomfortable about this. I know I'm not willing to be lied to as you did the first time we talked about this. I need you to tell me honestly the full picture of what is going on. I want you to have friends, but the fact that you're not willing to talk to me in an upfront way about this is just not working for me."
posted by latkes at 8:10 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think at this point though you do need to have a very explicit conversation about what's going on, ie: "I can't say exactly why, but my gut feeling is really uncomfortable about this. I know I'm not willing to be lied to as you did the first time we talked about this. I need you to tell me honestly the full picture of what is going on. I want you to have friends, but the fact that you're not willing to talk to me in an upfront way about this is just not working for me."
posted by latkes at 8:10 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I really don't get the "just dump her" crowd here. Curious if folks saying that have been in long term relationships!
latkes, I'm pretty sure a bunch of us are saying this because we ourselves have had LTRs or marriages end this way.
I totally agree almost all relationships go through hard things. (Not sure I would say they all go through "weird" things...) But when you've been in enough relationships and you've seen enough of other people's, you notice that certain problems usually lead to certain outcomes. For example, I wouldn't say, "she's depressed, and got fired because of it? Dump her!" The outcome of that situation would depend on the couple. But when it's something like this, when one person has gotten obsessed with an outside crush, started behaving in a really sketchy way with them, lying, stonewalling their partner, getting defensively hostile... based on every time I have seen that situation, I feel pretty confident about how it will end.
posted by cairdeas at 8:23 PM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
latkes, I'm pretty sure a bunch of us are saying this because we ourselves have had LTRs or marriages end this way.
I totally agree almost all relationships go through hard things. (Not sure I would say they all go through "weird" things...) But when you've been in enough relationships and you've seen enough of other people's, you notice that certain problems usually lead to certain outcomes. For example, I wouldn't say, "she's depressed, and got fired because of it? Dump her!" The outcome of that situation would depend on the couple. But when it's something like this, when one person has gotten obsessed with an outside crush, started behaving in a really sketchy way with them, lying, stonewalling their partner, getting defensively hostile... based on every time I have seen that situation, I feel pretty confident about how it will end.
posted by cairdeas at 8:23 PM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
Just to add my personal reason for being so absolute - suddenly starting to guard one's phone, to me, is just the most obvious and blatant red flag I could imagine, having been there.
posted by ftm at 8:39 PM on April 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by ftm at 8:39 PM on April 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
My money is on cairdeas's theory; the guy is using her for a distraction and she's somewhat in denial. Whatever may or may not be going on behind your back, though, what's going on in front of you is pretty ridiculous and annoying. You have my permission to not want it to go on, even if that's all there is.
posted by BibiRose at 9:09 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 9:09 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
The thing about the "dump her" answers is that dealing with a sneaky, cheating partner (without snooping, or becoming a person you don't want to be) is incredibly difficult. You know in your gut that something's wrong, but your partner is lying to you about it, and there's nothing to do but either look away in willful ignorance (where not only are you being taken advantage of/being taken for granted, but you're also wasting time being unhappy in a bad relationship) or start to take up a resentful suspicion about everything they do (the OP is already experiencing this when just one text from Ben makes him feel annoyed and unhappy). To a person who has gone through that and sees someone else doing the same-- the suggestion to dump them is the cleanest way to avoid 1) the hit to self-esteem of being cheated on, 2) the hit to self-esteem of doing things you never thought you'd do because your relationship made you feel crazy, and 3) the relationship baggage that comes from months or years of being lied to. If I think to myself "what would I want myself to do if I were in the OP's situation?" the answer would be to stand up for my self-respect, dignity and happiness and leave the relationship when I no longer felt valued in it. (Would I always do this? Probably not, but in the long-run I bet it would be a good bet.) Not feeling valued is a perfectly legitimate reason to leave a relationship, and not every relationship is worth staking your happiness on-- I would think particularly one where you are repeatedly lied to by a partner who doesn't take responsibility for her emotions. (She feels very special and cute right now and isn't exactly hiding it from you, OP, nor doing much to reassure you.)
posted by stoneandstar at 9:30 PM on April 29, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 9:30 PM on April 29, 2013 [11 favorites]
Also, since the OP has addressed this multiple times, leaving doesn't sound too unrealistic. If she'd/he'd never brought it up then I would suggest doing so, but after that has failed multiple times it seems one party is not acting in good faith.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:31 PM on April 29, 2013
posted by stoneandstar at 9:31 PM on April 29, 2013
anonymous posted">> We had a lengthy discussion immediately after that and she agreed that the amount of texting to Ben was inappropriate but maintained that there was nothing going on between them and she had no feelings for him beyond friendship. After that, the texting leveled off and I put the issue out of my mind until yesterday. We were out on the town and she took out her phone to check the time. I looked at her phone as well and saw an unread text message from Ben.
So what? You know that they're friends. Him texting her is irrelevant, the important point is how she interacts with you.
If she's still casting you aside and leaping to prioritize replying to his texts over being present with you...sure, that's a problem. But she agreed that her prior correspondance with him had gotten to be a bit much, and she dialed it back. If you're just getting a little jealous knee-jerk reaction because you see his name on her phone for a text she hasn't even bothered to read...eh, I'd say to check that and let her handle her friendships.
posted by desuetude at 10:28 PM on April 29, 2013
So what? You know that they're friends. Him texting her is irrelevant, the important point is how she interacts with you.
If she's still casting you aside and leaping to prioritize replying to his texts over being present with you...sure, that's a problem. But she agreed that her prior correspondance with him had gotten to be a bit much, and she dialed it back. If you're just getting a little jealous knee-jerk reaction because you see his name on her phone for a text she hasn't even bothered to read...eh, I'd say to check that and let her handle her friendships.
posted by desuetude at 10:28 PM on April 29, 2013
Well, the thing is even forgetting about what the particular problem is, the situation is pretty simple:
1. Your girlfriend has developed a habit that hurts you. You have asked her to stop several times and she has denied this habit existed, made you feel guilty for being open about your feelings, and finally lied to you saying she would end this behavior *just because it hurt you, because FYI it wasn't really wrong*
What message does this send you? You see this advice many times on Ask MeFi: She may not have told you, but she is SHOWING you where she stands. The habit she has developed (even if it weren't a romantic loyalty issue) is more important to her than your being happy and comfortable. This new habit is so valuable to her that it is worth the price of lying to, manipulating, and humiliating her boyfriend.
Any person in a solid relationship will tell you that things work by limitant factor logic: the discomfort and (rational) disapproval of one partner dictates the limits and rules within a relationship. for example, my husband would die if I talked about our sex life to my friends. I personally don't think it's a big deal, but with the limitant factor logic I must round down my level of sharing with friends. This is how things work. And you are not asking anything irrational here.
2. She is hiding an important relationship development from you. People in couples are normal people. We meet atractive coworkers, interesting new friends, and have the impetus of flirting. But in a serious relationship where you would already know what the rules are - some people consider flirting cheating, some believe there must be physical contact, and so on (clearly you re not comfortable with too much texting so that is your limiting factor right there) you CUT IT OUT, and if you cannot kill it on your own because the infatuation just can't let you go, you SPILL THE BEANS. This is the kind of thing you do with people you love and trust. You involve your partner. You keep accountable. you are honest. And the discomfort isn't enough for you to even entertain the idea of being dishonest.
This is the kind of thing that makes a couple stronger. She should have dealt with this already or at least run to you to let you know there is a problem she cannot handle on her own. But she didn't. She hasn't manned up to you because she doesn't want her habit to end. She likes it more than she likes being at peace with you.
So, going to the particulars of your situation, I can tell you that if I had something like this happen to me and I could not for the life of me delete this guy's number and block him everywhere, I would sit down with my husband and tell him: husband, my relationship with Ben is getting out of hand. I think we are getting too close and I am sorry I let it go too far. Then I would let husband ask about all the details he wanted to know, including showing him all the dodgy texts. Then we would decide what I should do. And I would follow through.
As you can see, I am coming from the assumption that her texts are at the very least flirty in nature. Just because I really cannot think of any other plausible situation in which a person can develop such interest in another individual without at least a crush being involved. There are few things more insulting than having couple time with your SO while their mind is clearly focused on their phone. That shit is rude with acquaintances, let alone a boyfriend!
posted by Tarumba at 11:26 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
1. Your girlfriend has developed a habit that hurts you. You have asked her to stop several times and she has denied this habit existed, made you feel guilty for being open about your feelings, and finally lied to you saying she would end this behavior *just because it hurt you, because FYI it wasn't really wrong*
What message does this send you? You see this advice many times on Ask MeFi: She may not have told you, but she is SHOWING you where she stands. The habit she has developed (even if it weren't a romantic loyalty issue) is more important to her than your being happy and comfortable. This new habit is so valuable to her that it is worth the price of lying to, manipulating, and humiliating her boyfriend.
Any person in a solid relationship will tell you that things work by limitant factor logic: the discomfort and (rational) disapproval of one partner dictates the limits and rules within a relationship. for example, my husband would die if I talked about our sex life to my friends. I personally don't think it's a big deal, but with the limitant factor logic I must round down my level of sharing with friends. This is how things work. And you are not asking anything irrational here.
2. She is hiding an important relationship development from you. People in couples are normal people. We meet atractive coworkers, interesting new friends, and have the impetus of flirting. But in a serious relationship where you would already know what the rules are - some people consider flirting cheating, some believe there must be physical contact, and so on (clearly you re not comfortable with too much texting so that is your limiting factor right there) you CUT IT OUT, and if you cannot kill it on your own because the infatuation just can't let you go, you SPILL THE BEANS. This is the kind of thing you do with people you love and trust. You involve your partner. You keep accountable. you are honest. And the discomfort isn't enough for you to even entertain the idea of being dishonest.
This is the kind of thing that makes a couple stronger. She should have dealt with this already or at least run to you to let you know there is a problem she cannot handle on her own. But she didn't. She hasn't manned up to you because she doesn't want her habit to end. She likes it more than she likes being at peace with you.
So, going to the particulars of your situation, I can tell you that if I had something like this happen to me and I could not for the life of me delete this guy's number and block him everywhere, I would sit down with my husband and tell him: husband, my relationship with Ben is getting out of hand. I think we are getting too close and I am sorry I let it go too far. Then I would let husband ask about all the details he wanted to know, including showing him all the dodgy texts. Then we would decide what I should do. And I would follow through.
As you can see, I am coming from the assumption that her texts are at the very least flirty in nature. Just because I really cannot think of any other plausible situation in which a person can develop such interest in another individual without at least a crush being involved. There are few things more insulting than having couple time with your SO while their mind is clearly focused on their phone. That shit is rude with acquaintances, let alone a boyfriend!
posted by Tarumba at 11:26 PM on April 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Coming here from a really, really different perspective.
Here's what I think is going on. This thing with Ben is probably not an actual affair. But he's been open with her about his rough divorce, which probably let her feel safe to talk about some problems in your relationship. Maybe they're commiserating and giving each other advice. But she might not want you to see her phone, because she doesn't want you to see these frustrations or negative things that she might have typed about you. We're not even talking groundbreaking, maybe even just, "OMFG, AnonyBoyfriend is so jealous! We have to cool the texts, I'm SO sorry but he is freaking out."
That she's not willing to show you the texts doesn't mean she loves or has feelings for him - it may just mean that they're about you and she wants an untainted source to talk about her feelings about your relationship.
The hiding the texts may also be because you're freaking out. I'm not saying you're unreasonable, but if I were your girlfriend, I would think you were making a mountain out of a molehill.
posted by corb at 5:36 AM on April 30, 2013
Here's what I think is going on. This thing with Ben is probably not an actual affair. But he's been open with her about his rough divorce, which probably let her feel safe to talk about some problems in your relationship. Maybe they're commiserating and giving each other advice. But she might not want you to see her phone, because she doesn't want you to see these frustrations or negative things that she might have typed about you. We're not even talking groundbreaking, maybe even just, "OMFG, AnonyBoyfriend is so jealous! We have to cool the texts, I'm SO sorry but he is freaking out."
That she's not willing to show you the texts doesn't mean she loves or has feelings for him - it may just mean that they're about you and she wants an untainted source to talk about her feelings about your relationship.
The hiding the texts may also be because you're freaking out. I'm not saying you're unreasonable, but if I were your girlfriend, I would think you were making a mountain out of a molehill.
posted by corb at 5:36 AM on April 30, 2013
My opinion: you already know what is going on, but are in denial. You can wait it out and try to collect proof to confirm what you already know. Which is what many of us have done, but is a long and painful process that is often unsatisfying. Because how much proof do you need to be satisfied?
posted by Acer_saccharum at 7:08 AM on April 30, 2013
posted by Acer_saccharum at 7:08 AM on April 30, 2013
A few weeks ago, I was texting someone constantly and my boyfriend called me out on it. Not because he was jealous, but because I was sitting right next to my boyfriend while my mind was elsewhere, texting. He simply asked, "who are you texting so much?"
And I told him the truth. I was texting one of my gay guy friends about some hurtful things a mutual friend had done to me. Gay guy friend (GGF) was the best person to vent to because he had seen some of it go down and had asked me about it. There was obviously nothing sketchy going on, as GGF is very gay and I'm a straight lady who is head over heels in love with my boyfriend, but I hadn't realized that my constant texting bothered my boyfriend until he mentioned it.
The thing is, when he asked, I told him. Had I hidden it from him, he would have been totally weirded out, understandably. It's not the constant texting that is bothersome, it's the secrecy. She lied about it upfront, kept her phone by her at all times, and lied again when she said she would stop. That's just not ok. I would feel so uncomfortable in a relationship with that kind of secrecy. I leave my phone around all the time, I give it to him to put in his pocket when I don't have pockets or a purse handy, we text for each other when the other is driving. I would feel awful if he suddenly started being secretive with his phone. I've been cheated on before, and I wouldn't be ok with that kind of behavior.
Honestly, I don't think this relationship is worth saving. She is clearly capable of lying to you and carrying on with someone else knowing it hurts you. I wouldn't want to be with someone who knowingly hurt me like that.
posted by thisismyname at 7:51 AM on April 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
And I told him the truth. I was texting one of my gay guy friends about some hurtful things a mutual friend had done to me. Gay guy friend (GGF) was the best person to vent to because he had seen some of it go down and had asked me about it. There was obviously nothing sketchy going on, as GGF is very gay and I'm a straight lady who is head over heels in love with my boyfriend, but I hadn't realized that my constant texting bothered my boyfriend until he mentioned it.
The thing is, when he asked, I told him. Had I hidden it from him, he would have been totally weirded out, understandably. It's not the constant texting that is bothersome, it's the secrecy. She lied about it upfront, kept her phone by her at all times, and lied again when she said she would stop. That's just not ok. I would feel so uncomfortable in a relationship with that kind of secrecy. I leave my phone around all the time, I give it to him to put in his pocket when I don't have pockets or a purse handy, we text for each other when the other is driving. I would feel awful if he suddenly started being secretive with his phone. I've been cheated on before, and I wouldn't be ok with that kind of behavior.
Honestly, I don't think this relationship is worth saving. She is clearly capable of lying to you and carrying on with someone else knowing it hurts you. I wouldn't want to be with someone who knowingly hurt me like that.
posted by thisismyname at 7:51 AM on April 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh for fuck's sake.
If she's not having sex with Ben, she's not cheating on you and you have no business getting all up in her grill. The whole idea of "having an emotional affair" is nothing but jealousy-driven dramarama thoughtcrime bullshit.
Trusting her properly not to have sex with Ben will require commitment and work on your part. If you love her and you think she's worth it, do that and let the texting go.
If she does have sex with Ben behind your back, dump her instantly, break off all contact and move on. But for as long as that continues not to have happened, you'd be best advised to keep reminding yourself that you are both responsible adults, that your beloved's life and friendships are not yours to control, and that you cannot and should not stop her communicating with whomever she damn well pleases.
posted by flabdablet at 8:46 AM on April 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
If she's not having sex with Ben, she's not cheating on you and you have no business getting all up in her grill. The whole idea of "having an emotional affair" is nothing but jealousy-driven dramarama thoughtcrime bullshit.
Trusting her properly not to have sex with Ben will require commitment and work on your part. If you love her and you think she's worth it, do that and let the texting go.
If she does have sex with Ben behind your back, dump her instantly, break off all contact and move on. But for as long as that continues not to have happened, you'd be best advised to keep reminding yourself that you are both responsible adults, that your beloved's life and friendships are not yours to control, and that you cannot and should not stop her communicating with whomever she damn well pleases.
posted by flabdablet at 8:46 AM on April 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
She lied about it upfront, kept her phone by her at all times, and lied again when she said she would stop. That's just not ok.
Of course it's not OK and of course it's going nowhere good because the truth will out, but it's an absolutely predictable consequence of the OP's present attitude.
If she's not going to have sex with Ben and she knows she's not going to have sex with Ben and she and Ben are texting for reasons that she knows have no bearing at all on her relationship with the OP, then wanting to avoid pointless drama is a strong motivation for trying to keep Ben-conversation and the OP well separated.
If that's what's going on, the best thing the OP could possibly do about it is quietly drop the whole issue.
If that's not what's going on, and it turns out that GF is either already cheating on the OP or well along the road to doing so - well, that truth will out as well in its own good time.
If the OP's actual aim is to push GF away in Ben's direction then he is of course perfectly free to continue making the topic of Ben as unpleasant to discuss as possible.
posted by flabdablet at 9:12 AM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course it's not OK and of course it's going nowhere good because the truth will out, but it's an absolutely predictable consequence of the OP's present attitude.
If she's not going to have sex with Ben and she knows she's not going to have sex with Ben and she and Ben are texting for reasons that she knows have no bearing at all on her relationship with the OP, then wanting to avoid pointless drama is a strong motivation for trying to keep Ben-conversation and the OP well separated.
If that's what's going on, the best thing the OP could possibly do about it is quietly drop the whole issue.
If that's not what's going on, and it turns out that GF is either already cheating on the OP or well along the road to doing so - well, that truth will out as well in its own good time.
If the OP's actual aim is to push GF away in Ben's direction then he is of course perfectly free to continue making the topic of Ben as unpleasant to discuss as possible.
posted by flabdablet at 9:12 AM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your dilemna stems from the fact that you can't be sure what's going on. The voice on one shoulder tells you she's lusting for the guy; the voice on the other shoulder tells you you're being overly suspicious and unreasonable.
So, find out.
Tell her you're breaking up with her, and be prepared to really do it. But, don't make it a confrontational, accusatory, "you're a lying, cheating bitch" breakup. Instead, tell her what's in your heart, tell her it's eating away at you and making you a person you don't like, and that the only way out that you can find is to walk away. Then do it, but leave both yourself and your girlfriend some dignity and some good feelings for the other.
One of two things will happen. One, she'll run to the other guy and indulge whatever they've got going on, or Two, she'll maintain contact with you, find excuses to get together, and eventually convince you that you're her one and only.
One way or the other, you'll know.
posted by dinger at 9:54 AM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
So, find out.
Tell her you're breaking up with her, and be prepared to really do it. But, don't make it a confrontational, accusatory, "you're a lying, cheating bitch" breakup. Instead, tell her what's in your heart, tell her it's eating away at you and making you a person you don't like, and that the only way out that you can find is to walk away. Then do it, but leave both yourself and your girlfriend some dignity and some good feelings for the other.
One of two things will happen. One, she'll run to the other guy and indulge whatever they've got going on, or Two, she'll maintain contact with you, find excuses to get together, and eventually convince you that you're her one and only.
One way or the other, you'll know.
posted by dinger at 9:54 AM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
the only way out ... is to walk away.
And the only way through is not to.
Your call.
posted by flabdablet at 10:48 AM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
And the only way through is not to.
Your call.
posted by flabdablet at 10:48 AM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, let me tell you right now that if some guy dumped me because of his jealousy but was secretly hoping that I'd come crawling back and prove myself, not only would I not date that guy again, I wouldn't even be friends with him.
I'd avoid ultimatums.
posted by corb at 11:02 AM on April 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'd avoid ultimatums.
posted by corb at 11:02 AM on April 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
You knew the answer you'd get from us, so you're not posting here for that answer. You're asking a different question: In a relationship of equals, what power do you have to change the other person? And the answer is: very little. You have the power to change yourself, and the power to walk away, and that's about it. Unlike when parenting, you can't give your SO a time out, or ground her, or take away her allowance. You can change yourself, or you can leave her. That's it.
So, you have to ask yourself if this is something you can change in yourself (e.g. your feelings) or is it a deal breaker. You may be able to change your feelings by reading her text message log, with or without her permission (your call on how you'd choose which option). You may be able to change your feelings by having a heart-to-heart with her. (And by changing your feelings, you have to realize that you may find them being much worse.) But you can't get her to feel differently towards Ben, and you probably can't get her to be more honest with you.
Is this a dealbreaker for you? It's your call.
posted by Capri at 2:39 PM on April 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
So, you have to ask yourself if this is something you can change in yourself (e.g. your feelings) or is it a deal breaker. You may be able to change your feelings by reading her text message log, with or without her permission (your call on how you'd choose which option). You may be able to change your feelings by having a heart-to-heart with her. (And by changing your feelings, you have to realize that you may find them being much worse.) But you can't get her to feel differently towards Ben, and you probably can't get her to be more honest with you.
Is this a dealbreaker for you? It's your call.
posted by Capri at 2:39 PM on April 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
The most effective method I'm aware of for achieving positive change in the way you feel about things is to work hard on changing how you think about them first.
Try concentrating hard on the fact that this woman you love, fully in charge of her own life, has chosen to be your partner. Not Ben's. Yours.
Concentrate on the equality implied by the word "partner".
Put Sting on high rotation inside your own head.
Picture your jealous thoughts as Iago whipering in your ear, and tell him to fuck off.
posted by flabdablet at 7:04 PM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Try concentrating hard on the fact that this woman you love, fully in charge of her own life, has chosen to be your partner. Not Ben's. Yours.
Concentrate on the equality implied by the word "partner".
Put Sting on high rotation inside your own head.
Picture your jealous thoughts as Iago whipering in your ear, and tell him to fuck off.
posted by flabdablet at 7:04 PM on April 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
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