Going Home to Toxic Family--How to deal? Help me help Mom!
April 28, 2013 2:12 PM Subscribe
I am currently finishing up my exchange in France where I've had awesome experiences and faced life-changing learning curves. Now I'm returning home to my extremely estranged parents who have been fighting all my life--deep, disgusting trenches of arguments that seem never-ending.
Their fights are due to their incompatibilities and their own intense depression/anxiety issues. However, my father will never get help--he also will never allow my mother to leave him. He's emotionally holding her hostage, manipulates her every move and even tries to control her thoughts. Creepy.
I feel for my mom, who is an incredibly vivacious woman with a big heart, great smarts, good job, and tons of friends. However, she is practically a shell of who she was. She has made mistakes in her marriage in the form of emotional affairs, but my father's enraging antics were definitely the catalyst of them.
Among their arguments is the fact that my grandparents live with us--you guessed it, my Dad's parents. They've been horrible grandparents to me, doting on the male off-spring of my father rather than me (ever) but Dad doesn't see it. They're also generally completely unappreciative and entitled jerks. Nothing my mother does is ever good enough.
My mom is depressed and wants to leave this marriage, but my dad threatens to tell everyone about her emotional affairs if she does so. I've told my mother to SEEK THERAPY AND COUNSELING for a very long time, but she seems VERY afraid to do so. It's frustrating because she has SO much initiative and motivation for everything in her life EXCEPT this step.
I just spoke to her and she says she'll give counselling a chance. But in about a month, I'll be returning home, and I don't know what to do. I listen to my poor mother's silence or can be the victim of everyone's shouting. I don't know how to help more than this.
To make matter's worse, my dad's sister is coming to visit. FOR A WHOLE MONTH. Turns out, all she did was send an email to my Dad, saying her itinerary, saying "FYI I'll be staying at your place for a month. Forward this message to your wife". No request, no niceties, JUST entitlement. It's my MOM'S house that my MOM pays for! How dare you say you'll just show up? Whenever she shows up, she also makes us go on shopping trips for her--it's such a financial burden, but she doesn't care. It makes my blood boil.
However, my Dad will never listen to anything wrong with his side of the family. He's been that way all his life. He's crazy, as far as I'm concerned and his crazy behavior is making me go sick. My mom tries to stand up for herself, but she is overtaken by my dad's obtrusive and unappreciative behavior. I do believe this is deep emotional abuse.
How can I deal? So much more to say. I want to help my family. Help me help them!
Their fights are due to their incompatibilities and their own intense depression/anxiety issues. However, my father will never get help--he also will never allow my mother to leave him. He's emotionally holding her hostage, manipulates her every move and even tries to control her thoughts. Creepy.
I feel for my mom, who is an incredibly vivacious woman with a big heart, great smarts, good job, and tons of friends. However, she is practically a shell of who she was. She has made mistakes in her marriage in the form of emotional affairs, but my father's enraging antics were definitely the catalyst of them.
Among their arguments is the fact that my grandparents live with us--you guessed it, my Dad's parents. They've been horrible grandparents to me, doting on the male off-spring of my father rather than me (ever) but Dad doesn't see it. They're also generally completely unappreciative and entitled jerks. Nothing my mother does is ever good enough.
My mom is depressed and wants to leave this marriage, but my dad threatens to tell everyone about her emotional affairs if she does so. I've told my mother to SEEK THERAPY AND COUNSELING for a very long time, but she seems VERY afraid to do so. It's frustrating because she has SO much initiative and motivation for everything in her life EXCEPT this step.
I just spoke to her and she says she'll give counselling a chance. But in about a month, I'll be returning home, and I don't know what to do. I listen to my poor mother's silence or can be the victim of everyone's shouting. I don't know how to help more than this.
To make matter's worse, my dad's sister is coming to visit. FOR A WHOLE MONTH. Turns out, all she did was send an email to my Dad, saying her itinerary, saying "FYI I'll be staying at your place for a month. Forward this message to your wife". No request, no niceties, JUST entitlement. It's my MOM'S house that my MOM pays for! How dare you say you'll just show up? Whenever she shows up, she also makes us go on shopping trips for her--it's such a financial burden, but she doesn't care. It makes my blood boil.
However, my Dad will never listen to anything wrong with his side of the family. He's been that way all his life. He's crazy, as far as I'm concerned and his crazy behavior is making me go sick. My mom tries to stand up for herself, but she is overtaken by my dad's obtrusive and unappreciative behavior. I do believe this is deep emotional abuse.
How can I deal? So much more to say. I want to help my family. Help me help them!
Wow, this sounds like a pretty unpleasant prospect.
I doubt there's much you can do to "help" your mom. She chooses to stay in this marriage even though her kid is grown and out of the house. She must have her reasons, however foreign they seem to you. (If it's really that she's somehow being blackmailed about "emotional affairs," you could remind her over and over that nobody cares or would think less of her, and that this threat is a phantasm, it has no teeth. Don't know if she'd believe you though.)
You could tell your aunt to get stuffed and point out that nobody wants her around, I suppose. Don't know if the fallout from that is worth the drama to you.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:19 PM on April 28, 2013
I doubt there's much you can do to "help" your mom. She chooses to stay in this marriage even though her kid is grown and out of the house. She must have her reasons, however foreign they seem to you. (If it's really that she's somehow being blackmailed about "emotional affairs," you could remind her over and over that nobody cares or would think less of her, and that this threat is a phantasm, it has no teeth. Don't know if she'd believe you though.)
You could tell your aunt to get stuffed and point out that nobody wants her around, I suppose. Don't know if the fallout from that is worth the drama to you.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:19 PM on April 28, 2013
P.S. I grew up with a fucked-up home dynamic, too. When I returned from my exchange year, I realized that the time away from their home dynamic was the greatest gift my family had ever given me. You'll be facing your own transition as you return home. Take good care.
posted by mynameisluka at 2:19 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 2:19 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I can't leave. I can't afford to, with still one more year of Uni to go.
Yes, she is terrified of my dad's rage. He's never laid a hand on any of us but he's incredibly scary when he needs to be.
I feel ashamed mentioning this but apparently he even paid 3000 dollars to rig my mom's workplace to eavesdrop on who she talks to and what she says. He caught my mom flirting with guys this way.
He won't let my mother leave. He does everything in his power. My mom doesn't have a choice in leaving, she feels--there is no choice. She is forced to stay through his blackmail and abuse.
My aunt is fucking nuts.
I'm going crazy. :( I can't be happy when my family isn't.
posted by rhythm_queen at 2:22 PM on April 28, 2013
Yes, she is terrified of my dad's rage. He's never laid a hand on any of us but he's incredibly scary when he needs to be.
I feel ashamed mentioning this but apparently he even paid 3000 dollars to rig my mom's workplace to eavesdrop on who she talks to and what she says. He caught my mom flirting with guys this way.
He won't let my mother leave. He does everything in his power. My mom doesn't have a choice in leaving, she feels--there is no choice. She is forced to stay through his blackmail and abuse.
My aunt is fucking nuts.
I'm going crazy. :( I can't be happy when my family isn't.
posted by rhythm_queen at 2:22 PM on April 28, 2013
One other thing. You sound very enmeshed and it sounds as if your mom uses you as an emotional dumping ground instead of using a therapist. This should stop. It is terrible parenting and you have no duty to hear it. It will drown you if you let it. This stuff is not your responsibility, nor is it within your power to change. Try to recognize that and understand that it's your mother's job to fix her household, not yours. You'll have your own work to do in this life and your own mistakes and your own troubles. Don't take your parents' on as well.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:22 PM on April 28, 2013 [24 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:22 PM on April 28, 2013 [24 favorites]
The only way to help your mom is to show her that you have refused to let this toxic situation ruin your life. That requires getting out and staying out.
You don't say how old you are, though, so if that is not possible immediately, start making your escape plans.
You have to put on your own oxygen mask first, in other words. I would also suggest counseling for you...no one lives in this kind of situation without acquiring damage. Seek it out if you can.
Once you are out, you can offer your mom a place to stay and emotional support. Whether she takes it is out of your control. Everything after that depends on her, not you. You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
posted by emjaybee at 2:25 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
You don't say how old you are, though, so if that is not possible immediately, start making your escape plans.
You have to put on your own oxygen mask first, in other words. I would also suggest counseling for you...no one lives in this kind of situation without acquiring damage. Seek it out if you can.
Once you are out, you can offer your mom a place to stay and emotional support. Whether she takes it is out of your control. Everything after that depends on her, not you. You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
posted by emjaybee at 2:25 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: The cost of living on your own is much less than the price you'll pay by moving back into that situation.
I'm assuming you are, legally, an adult, put your energy into finding resources to support yourself and stop trying to fix a family that doesn't really want to be fixed. I'm sorry you're returning to this, but you need to do so as the person in charge of your life, not as another victim.
posted by HuronBob at 2:27 PM on April 28, 2013 [15 favorites]
I'm assuming you are, legally, an adult, put your energy into finding resources to support yourself and stop trying to fix a family that doesn't really want to be fixed. I'm sorry you're returning to this, but you need to do so as the person in charge of your life, not as another victim.
posted by HuronBob at 2:27 PM on April 28, 2013 [15 favorites]
I'm going crazy. :( I can't be happy when my family isn't.
Actually that's not true. When you have been away from your unhappy family, you have found excitement and joy.
I am currently finishing up my exchange in France where I've had awesome experiences and faced life-changing learning curves.
Your job as a student and as a newly formed adult is to find more awesome experiences and face more life-changing learning curves.
You can't change your mother's life. But you can take charge of your own. Find a way to live with roommates or on campus for your last year of school. Make that break so that you no longer consider living at home an option. You can visit them, and even in cheap poor-student living conditions you can invite your mother over from time to time, but your focus needs to be on creating a healthy living environment for yourself.
posted by headnsouth at 2:27 PM on April 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Actually that's not true. When you have been away from your unhappy family, you have found excitement and joy.
I am currently finishing up my exchange in France where I've had awesome experiences and faced life-changing learning curves.
Your job as a student and as a newly formed adult is to find more awesome experiences and face more life-changing learning curves.
You can't change your mother's life. But you can take charge of your own. Find a way to live with roommates or on campus for your last year of school. Make that break so that you no longer consider living at home an option. You can visit them, and even in cheap poor-student living conditions you can invite your mother over from time to time, but your focus needs to be on creating a healthy living environment for yourself.
posted by headnsouth at 2:27 PM on April 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: One of the hardest things to learn as an adult is that you can't mold your family of birth into the kind of family you wish you had.
You just can't.
It sucks that your parents are unhappy.
It sucks that they're in a bad situation with your grandparents -- who sound like awful people -- living there.
It sucks that your mom wishes she could leave your dad but can't figure out how to do it without massive blowback that she's not sure she can face.
You cannot change any of this.
You can't.
You really and truly straight up 100% can't.
My advice to you is to not live under that roof, and in fact to be as far away as you can so as to see them as seldom as you have to for your own sanity. At least until you make peace with the fact that this is who your family is. Possibly until whatever drama this is blows over.
My parents had a terrible relationship throughout my childhood, and they split up when I was 17. I thanked my lucky stars every day that I was old enough not to be living under that roof. I spent basically all of college estranged from my parents and trying to avoid taking sides in their messy divorce, their messy second marriages, and the messy custody battles that ensued on several occasions. I'm still of the opinion that both of them are deeply flawed people, and on this topic as well as quite a few others I've had to make my peace with who they are and where they're at. Staying away until the worst of it had settled down was a major factor in being able to do that.
I'm not saying don't talk to them ever, but living under their roof will kill you. Living in the same town and being expected to be involved in the drama will be almost as bad. You need to get out of there. It doesn't have to be terribly far, but far enough that you're not expected to come over at the drop of a hat, or eat regular meals there, or hear about every little latest development in the ongoing saga.
I've seen so many bright and awesome friends laid low because they stayed too close to fucked up family situations for too long. Just get out.
posted by Sara C. at 2:29 PM on April 28, 2013 [19 favorites]
You just can't.
It sucks that your parents are unhappy.
It sucks that they're in a bad situation with your grandparents -- who sound like awful people -- living there.
It sucks that your mom wishes she could leave your dad but can't figure out how to do it without massive blowback that she's not sure she can face.
You cannot change any of this.
You can't.
You really and truly straight up 100% can't.
My advice to you is to not live under that roof, and in fact to be as far away as you can so as to see them as seldom as you have to for your own sanity. At least until you make peace with the fact that this is who your family is. Possibly until whatever drama this is blows over.
My parents had a terrible relationship throughout my childhood, and they split up when I was 17. I thanked my lucky stars every day that I was old enough not to be living under that roof. I spent basically all of college estranged from my parents and trying to avoid taking sides in their messy divorce, their messy second marriages, and the messy custody battles that ensued on several occasions. I'm still of the opinion that both of them are deeply flawed people, and on this topic as well as quite a few others I've had to make my peace with who they are and where they're at. Staying away until the worst of it had settled down was a major factor in being able to do that.
I'm not saying don't talk to them ever, but living under their roof will kill you. Living in the same town and being expected to be involved in the drama will be almost as bad. You need to get out of there. It doesn't have to be terribly far, but far enough that you're not expected to come over at the drop of a hat, or eat regular meals there, or hear about every little latest development in the ongoing saga.
I've seen so many bright and awesome friends laid low because they stayed too close to fucked up family situations for too long. Just get out.
posted by Sara C. at 2:29 PM on April 28, 2013 [19 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you.
My mom says if I leave, my father will blame her for making me "too independant" and "ungrateful"
I also worry my mom won't have any happiness if I leave. We bond over fashion, over humor, over shows--shallow stuff, but mom clings onto that, and we have fun together. I don't want to leave and for her to be all alone in her depression.
posted by rhythm_queen at 2:30 PM on April 28, 2013
My mom says if I leave, my father will blame her for making me "too independant" and "ungrateful"
I also worry my mom won't have any happiness if I leave. We bond over fashion, over humor, over shows--shallow stuff, but mom clings onto that, and we have fun together. I don't want to leave and for her to be all alone in her depression.
posted by rhythm_queen at 2:30 PM on April 28, 2013
Best answer: My mom says if I leave, my father will blame her for making me "too independant" and "ungrateful"
This is exactly the stuff you have to stay out of.
This is your mom's fight, not yours.
If your dad is a dick, that's on him, not you.
I also worry my mom won't have any happiness if I leave.
Your mom is a grown woman. It is for her to have happiness in her life or not. You cannot make her happy. You cannot make these decisions for her. You can still be her daughter and not live under her roof. You can still bond over silly fashion stuff with her -- I live across the country from my mom, and we bond over the same things. You say she has friends, a career, a life. You need to trust that she will rely on those connections and doesn't need you to save her.
Even if you have to physically sleep there because there is simply no other option besides a cardboard box on the corner, you have to at least stay out of this stuff. It's not for you.
posted by Sara C. at 2:33 PM on April 28, 2013 [19 favorites]
This is exactly the stuff you have to stay out of.
This is your mom's fight, not yours.
If your dad is a dick, that's on him, not you.
I also worry my mom won't have any happiness if I leave.
Your mom is a grown woman. It is for her to have happiness in her life or not. You cannot make her happy. You cannot make these decisions for her. You can still be her daughter and not live under her roof. You can still bond over silly fashion stuff with her -- I live across the country from my mom, and we bond over the same things. You say she has friends, a career, a life. You need to trust that she will rely on those connections and doesn't need you to save her.
Even if you have to physically sleep there because there is simply no other option besides a cardboard box on the corner, you have to at least stay out of this stuff. It's not for you.
posted by Sara C. at 2:33 PM on April 28, 2013 [19 favorites]
My mom says if I leave, my father will blame her for making me "too independant" and "ungrateful"
Wow, your mother should not tell you that! Their relationship and weird blaming-and-shaming dynamic is not your responsibility.
Even if what she's saying is true (?) it's a parent's job to make their child independent, and it's a common thing for young people to behave ungratefully, as it makes leaving easier. So independent and ungrateful aren't bad words in that context.
But I wonder if it's even true. He may be awful to her, but she's being awful to you by burdening you like this.
posted by headnsouth at 2:34 PM on April 28, 2013 [9 favorites]
Wow, your mother should not tell you that! Their relationship and weird blaming-and-shaming dynamic is not your responsibility.
Even if what she's saying is true (?) it's a parent's job to make their child independent, and it's a common thing for young people to behave ungratefully, as it makes leaving easier. So independent and ungrateful aren't bad words in that context.
But I wonder if it's even true. He may be awful to her, but she's being awful to you by burdening you like this.
posted by headnsouth at 2:34 PM on April 28, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: We all get one life. Your mother has chosen to spend hers this way.
You don't get another one, if you spend yours on her misery.
Plus, if you get out and have a happy life, you ARE helping - by seting an example and giving her a successful daughter to stay with when she wants to get on her feet. If you let yourself drown in this muck it will help no one. Believe me, depression like this leaps across generations like wildfire - it is so terribly contagious. Fight it as hard as you can. Step one is physical distance.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:35 PM on April 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
You don't get another one, if you spend yours on her misery.
Plus, if you get out and have a happy life, you ARE helping - by seting an example and giving her a successful daughter to stay with when she wants to get on her feet. If you let yourself drown in this muck it will help no one. Believe me, depression like this leaps across generations like wildfire - it is so terribly contagious. Fight it as hard as you can. Step one is physical distance.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:35 PM on April 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm 21. My mom doesn't lie. I ask her to open up and she does on Skype, and then its a shitshow. When I talk to her I hear the depression and anxiety in her voice. I can't stand it, I have to ask her what's up. With some coaxing, she will tell me.
I'm understanding everything you're telling me, but trust me--my mom is SHIELDING me from the real mess of my Dad. The things she says that he tells her DO NOT surprise me. I've heard him say much worse crap to my face.
Mom doesn't lie. She takes so much shit from Dad--I've seen it, heard it, and know it. Ugh.
posted by rhythm_queen at 2:38 PM on April 28, 2013
I'm understanding everything you're telling me, but trust me--my mom is SHIELDING me from the real mess of my Dad. The things she says that he tells her DO NOT surprise me. I've heard him say much worse crap to my face.
Mom doesn't lie. She takes so much shit from Dad--I've seen it, heard it, and know it. Ugh.
posted by rhythm_queen at 2:38 PM on April 28, 2013
I'm 21.
So get out.
Look, if you're old enough that your mom feels she can unload her garbage on you, you're old enough to figure out some living situation that's not under your toxic parents' roof.
posted by Sara C. at 2:40 PM on April 28, 2013 [9 favorites]
So get out.
Look, if you're old enough that your mom feels she can unload her garbage on you, you're old enough to figure out some living situation that's not under your toxic parents' roof.
posted by Sara C. at 2:40 PM on April 28, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: You and your mom are a lot alike, actually. Both of you are in bad situations that you are managing to muddle through and survive. That's great! But here's the catch: you have figured out how to "get through it", and that's what you're both most familiar with, and that's what you're comfortable with, so you stick with that. Unpleasant as everything is, it's a known quantity, and you decide to stick with that, rather than risk any alternatives.
On some level, the reason your mom doesn't go to counseling is because she's worried that counseling will convince her to make a radical change. The reason you don't move is that as bad as things are, you're worried that moving out, like many if not most of your classmates have done, will have consequences you don't want to deal with, and you won't have as much experience with this "unknown world", preferring the "known world" you're in now.
The thing is that this will come up over and over again. Not just with you, not just with your mom, but with your friends and in other situations where people will prefer the bad situation they're familiar with to making a change that might be worse. It is extremely important for your personal development that you learn how to deal with yourself and with someone else who is leaning on you to muddle through a situation that they don't want to change because they would rather not face unfamiliar alternatives.
posted by deanc at 2:43 PM on April 28, 2013 [21 favorites]
On some level, the reason your mom doesn't go to counseling is because she's worried that counseling will convince her to make a radical change. The reason you don't move is that as bad as things are, you're worried that moving out, like many if not most of your classmates have done, will have consequences you don't want to deal with, and you won't have as much experience with this "unknown world", preferring the "known world" you're in now.
The thing is that this will come up over and over again. Not just with you, not just with your mom, but with your friends and in other situations where people will prefer the bad situation they're familiar with to making a change that might be worse. It is extremely important for your personal development that you learn how to deal with yourself and with someone else who is leaning on you to muddle through a situation that they don't want to change because they would rather not face unfamiliar alternatives.
posted by deanc at 2:43 PM on April 28, 2013 [21 favorites]
My mom says if I leave, my father will blame her for making me "too independant" and "ungrateful"
It is not your fault your dad is a jerk to your mom. It will never be your fault. It is his fault.
I also worry my mom won't have any happiness if I leave. We bond over fashion, over humor, over shows--shallow stuff, but mom clings onto that, and we have fun together. I don't want to leave and for her to be all alone in her depression.
Your mother isn't going to have any happiness if you stay, either. You can provide short term relief from the pain in her life, but it's by no means a solution to her problems. Focus on taking care of yourself. She might be upset with you in the short term, but in the long term you'll be showing her that it's possible to have a happy life without having to worry about how your dad feels about anything.
I am so sorry you're going through this. You shouldn't have to deal with any of it.
posted by rhythm and booze at 2:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
It is not your fault your dad is a jerk to your mom. It will never be your fault. It is his fault.
I also worry my mom won't have any happiness if I leave. We bond over fashion, over humor, over shows--shallow stuff, but mom clings onto that, and we have fun together. I don't want to leave and for her to be all alone in her depression.
Your mother isn't going to have any happiness if you stay, either. You can provide short term relief from the pain in her life, but it's by no means a solution to her problems. Focus on taking care of yourself. She might be upset with you in the short term, but in the long term you'll be showing her that it's possible to have a happy life without having to worry about how your dad feels about anything.
I am so sorry you're going through this. You shouldn't have to deal with any of it.
posted by rhythm and booze at 2:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Get out. How about taking your Mom with you? Sounds like you have a very close relationship. I hear you can't afford much and money will be tight - make an agreement that you'll split a studio apartment for a year, and then move on from there.
If your Mom won't go with you, despite you assuring her that no one other than Dad's toxic relatives will care about the emotional affairs, than your Mom is hooked right now in this relationship... Tell her you love her, that your door is always open, but you can't be there anymore. Then take care of yourself and LEAVE. Leave even if you have to work an extra job at Uni. Leave even if you have to have three roommates. Just leave.
posted by stewiethegreat at 2:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
If your Mom won't go with you, despite you assuring her that no one other than Dad's toxic relatives will care about the emotional affairs, than your Mom is hooked right now in this relationship... Tell her you love her, that your door is always open, but you can't be there anymore. Then take care of yourself and LEAVE. Leave even if you have to work an extra job at Uni. Leave even if you have to have three roommates. Just leave.
posted by stewiethegreat at 2:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Stop making excuses for why you can't leave. You can. You are aping the pattern of behavior your mother has shown you. Stop the cycle. Do not return home except to retrieve your most important belongings if you don't have them already. Stay in a shelter. Live with friends. Talk to the counseling center at your university. You have resources at your disposal but you are treating them like they don't exist. You can do this. The possible consequences of leaving and never coming back are far, far less horrible than what awaits you if you do not take the leap.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [22 favorites]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [22 favorites]
Your question history shows you've been struggling with this for a long time. It's not your responsibility to protect your mother at the expense of your own well-being. More than that -- you can't actually protect her from a situation that she herself has chosen, and chooses every day, to remain in.
I get that, from within the situation, it feels like your mother is a helpless victim of your father with no agency or autonomy of her own. My mother never finished college, and stayed through long unhappy stretches of her marriage because she felt that she could not get a job that paid well enough to support her children without a college degree. And for a long time I felt badly that she was so trapped in the relationship, until one day in therapy I realized: adults go back to college all the time. It would not have been easy, and we would have been even poorer than we were, but if she was bound and determined to leave, she could have made it happen.
You can continue to be a source of support to your mother even after you implement better boundaries for yourself by moving out of the house. Trust me, you can make it work financially. Take out student loans and use them for living expenses. Get housemates so your rent is low and get a part-time job. Cut your living expenses to the bone, sell possessions, ask friends to spot you a few bucks every now and then, apply for scholarships, etc. etc. And find some free therapy through school so you can start working on how to create and maintain healthy boundaries. Also think about how watching your parents' relationship dynamic from so close is having an effect on your own relationships.
posted by southern_sky at 2:50 PM on April 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
I get that, from within the situation, it feels like your mother is a helpless victim of your father with no agency or autonomy of her own. My mother never finished college, and stayed through long unhappy stretches of her marriage because she felt that she could not get a job that paid well enough to support her children without a college degree. And for a long time I felt badly that she was so trapped in the relationship, until one day in therapy I realized: adults go back to college all the time. It would not have been easy, and we would have been even poorer than we were, but if she was bound and determined to leave, she could have made it happen.
You can continue to be a source of support to your mother even after you implement better boundaries for yourself by moving out of the house. Trust me, you can make it work financially. Take out student loans and use them for living expenses. Get housemates so your rent is low and get a part-time job. Cut your living expenses to the bone, sell possessions, ask friends to spot you a few bucks every now and then, apply for scholarships, etc. etc. And find some free therapy through school so you can start working on how to create and maintain healthy boundaries. Also think about how watching your parents' relationship dynamic from so close is having an effect on your own relationships.
posted by southern_sky at 2:50 PM on April 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
Tell her that you love her but the relationship is harming you.
Tell her you'll live with her if she separates from him, but you can't stay and watch an abusive relationship.
I doubt he bugs her work, but I'm certain she believes it.
And anybody would have an emotional affair being in a relationship with a person like him. Her objections to leaving him because people might find out about the emotional affairs are excuses, because she's locked in an abused-spouse dynamic. She needs you to label his behaviour, explain the dynamic, and get her therapy. Not counselling.
And really....worst case scenario that he tells people she had an emotional affair? So what!? She can say she didn't. She can also say....HE BUGGED MY WORKPLACE!!! Which kind of makes him look like a loon. I say, bring it on, if he's playing the, "I'll harm your reputation game." If he really did bug her, he broke the law and he's insane. She has the power to shame him more than he has to shame her. If she can get support to see it that way.
Hugs for your mum. And you.
posted by taff at 2:51 PM on April 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Tell her you'll live with her if she separates from him, but you can't stay and watch an abusive relationship.
I doubt he bugs her work, but I'm certain she believes it.
And anybody would have an emotional affair being in a relationship with a person like him. Her objections to leaving him because people might find out about the emotional affairs are excuses, because she's locked in an abused-spouse dynamic. She needs you to label his behaviour, explain the dynamic, and get her therapy. Not counselling.
And really....worst case scenario that he tells people she had an emotional affair? So what!? She can say she didn't. She can also say....HE BUGGED MY WORKPLACE!!! Which kind of makes him look like a loon. I say, bring it on, if he's playing the, "I'll harm your reputation game." If he really did bug her, he broke the law and he's insane. She has the power to shame him more than he has to shame her. If she can get support to see it that way.
Hugs for your mum. And you.
posted by taff at 2:51 PM on April 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
You cannot be responsible for another person's happiness. I know you want to, but that's not how happiness works. It only comes from inside.
You also can't make people do what you want. It's not just possible without blackmail or a weapon, and it's wrong to try to impose your will on others. You have to allow your parents agency, let them own their lives and decisions. You, in turn, can only own yours.
You are a grown-up now, and you've had the great gift of distance. Use it. Go to therapy yourself as soon as you get home - setting an example for your mother is not the same as manipulation, and it's okay to try to model healthier behavior for her as long as you let her make her own decisions about what to do. Maybe you going will make it easier for her to go. (Maybe not, but if that's the case you're still getting something out of it. Maybe she goes, but gets something entirely different out of it. That's okay.)
Go to therapy. Start working on your own escape plan. Your parents are adults and have made/are making their own decisions. Make yours yourself.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:11 PM on April 28, 2013
You also can't make people do what you want. It's not just possible without blackmail or a weapon, and it's wrong to try to impose your will on others. You have to allow your parents agency, let them own their lives and decisions. You, in turn, can only own yours.
You are a grown-up now, and you've had the great gift of distance. Use it. Go to therapy yourself as soon as you get home - setting an example for your mother is not the same as manipulation, and it's okay to try to model healthier behavior for her as long as you let her make her own decisions about what to do. Maybe you going will make it easier for her to go. (Maybe not, but if that's the case you're still getting something out of it. Maybe she goes, but gets something entirely different out of it. That's okay.)
Go to therapy. Start working on your own escape plan. Your parents are adults and have made/are making their own decisions. Make yours yourself.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:11 PM on April 28, 2013
I'm understanding everything you're telling me, but trust me--my mom is SHIELDING me from the real mess of my Dad. The things she says that he tells her DO NOT surprise me. I've heard him say much worse crap to my face.
Maybe if you move out, that will free your mother up to leave as well - because she no longer will have to worry about leaving you there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:25 PM on April 28, 2013 [13 favorites]
Maybe if you move out, that will free your mother up to leave as well - because she no longer will have to worry about leaving you there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:25 PM on April 28, 2013 [13 favorites]
I once received the following advice from someone about a situation not entirely dissimilar: "Run, as far and as fast as you can, and don't look back."
You can live on your own, you can help yourself, and you cannot help anyone who refuses to help themselves. You cannot make yourself responsible for anyone's happiness but your own.
posted by Alterscape at 3:34 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
You can live on your own, you can help yourself, and you cannot help anyone who refuses to help themselves. You cannot make yourself responsible for anyone's happiness but your own.
posted by Alterscape at 3:34 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
I can't be happy when my family isn't.
Let me be blunt: this type of thinking is pretty much a guarantee that you will be unhappy for the rest of your life.
You can be happy when your family isn't. This is not to say that it won't be a challenge creating happiness for yourself in spite of their persistent unhappiness, because it almost certainly will be very challenging. But you have choice. You have free will. You can choose to find ways to live a healthy, happy, productive life (as you found yourself able to do during your time in France) in spite of the unhealthy, unhappy, unproductive reality of your family of origin. To refuse to consider this is to willingly trap yourself in precisely the same way that you observe your mother being trapped.
If you make your happiness contingent on fixing your family, you have signed up for a lifetime of frustration, misery, and diminishing returns. This doesn't mean that you don't love your mother and that you don't have deep empathy or compassion for her. But it does mean recognizing that you -- just like everyone else on the planet -- only have control over exactly one person's happiness: your own. Full stop.
To put it another way: you are not actually powerful enough to fix your mom or your family. The fact that you have been led to believe this is not a reflection of reality, but rather a symptom of the very damaged ways in which you've been parented.
posted by scody at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2013 [27 favorites]
Let me be blunt: this type of thinking is pretty much a guarantee that you will be unhappy for the rest of your life.
You can be happy when your family isn't. This is not to say that it won't be a challenge creating happiness for yourself in spite of their persistent unhappiness, because it almost certainly will be very challenging. But you have choice. You have free will. You can choose to find ways to live a healthy, happy, productive life (as you found yourself able to do during your time in France) in spite of the unhealthy, unhappy, unproductive reality of your family of origin. To refuse to consider this is to willingly trap yourself in precisely the same way that you observe your mother being trapped.
If you make your happiness contingent on fixing your family, you have signed up for a lifetime of frustration, misery, and diminishing returns. This doesn't mean that you don't love your mother and that you don't have deep empathy or compassion for her. But it does mean recognizing that you -- just like everyone else on the planet -- only have control over exactly one person's happiness: your own. Full stop.
To put it another way: you are not actually powerful enough to fix your mom or your family. The fact that you have been led to believe this is not a reflection of reality, but rather a symptom of the very damaged ways in which you've been parented.
posted by scody at 3:40 PM on April 28, 2013 [27 favorites]
Oh, and another observation about finding ways to be happy even when your family isn't: that's not to say that you might not always feel sad for your mom or angry with your dad or your aunt. Those feelings won't disappear. You can live a happy, healthy life and simultaneously feel sad for your mom. "Happiness" is not some static state that we achieve by obliterating all other emotions. It's more of a general outlook and set of skills that allow us to feel grounded and secure even as the inevitable joys and sorrows of life present themselves.
posted by scody at 3:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by scody at 3:47 PM on April 28, 2013 [8 favorites]
I feel ashamed mentioning this but apparently he even paid 3000 dollars to rig my mom's workplace to eavesdrop on who she talks to and what she says. He caught my mom flirting with guys this way.
When you say "apparently", does that mean you aren't sure it happened? Who told you about this, and what proof do they have that it happened that way?
I say this because a family member started telling me about all these horrid things happening and what people were saying and doing... and I found out none of it was true. Oh, there's were grains of truth, but nothing like they were telling me. To call this realization devastating is a bit of an understatement, I trusted them and thus I believed some really horrible things about the people in my life. Looking back, I don't think they were lying to me, I think they honestly believed what they were saying. The whole thing was a mess.
I don't know what is happening with your family, how much information you are getting is factual and how much is a reflection of the person telling it, but I really think it would be useful for you to change your current vision of your parents as a horrible cruel ogre and a sweet vivacious victim. They are both flawed people.
Stop inserting yourself between your parents when they fight, you are not her saviour or her guardian and her willingness to let you do that is a really awful thing for a parent to do. It is very concerning that you know so much about their personal lives and are expected to comfort her over their problems. Even if this was a good friend in an abusive relationship, no one would suggest you insert yourself into the mess. If your mother was emotionally healthy, she wouldn't either.
Do what ever you can to not move back home, and start counselling for yourself if you haven't already.
I'm sorry your family can't be the support you need when you are just starting out as a young adult, I wish you all the best.
posted by Dynex at 4:00 PM on April 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
When you say "apparently", does that mean you aren't sure it happened? Who told you about this, and what proof do they have that it happened that way?
I say this because a family member started telling me about all these horrid things happening and what people were saying and doing... and I found out none of it was true. Oh, there's were grains of truth, but nothing like they were telling me. To call this realization devastating is a bit of an understatement, I trusted them and thus I believed some really horrible things about the people in my life. Looking back, I don't think they were lying to me, I think they honestly believed what they were saying. The whole thing was a mess.
I don't know what is happening with your family, how much information you are getting is factual and how much is a reflection of the person telling it, but I really think it would be useful for you to change your current vision of your parents as a horrible cruel ogre and a sweet vivacious victim. They are both flawed people.
Stop inserting yourself between your parents when they fight, you are not her saviour or her guardian and her willingness to let you do that is a really awful thing for a parent to do. It is very concerning that you know so much about their personal lives and are expected to comfort her over their problems. Even if this was a good friend in an abusive relationship, no one would suggest you insert yourself into the mess. If your mother was emotionally healthy, she wouldn't either.
Do what ever you can to not move back home, and start counselling for yourself if you haven't already.
I'm sorry your family can't be the support you need when you are just starting out as a young adult, I wish you all the best.
posted by Dynex at 4:00 PM on April 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
The analogy I am going to use may seem strange to you, but I am basing this on my experience with my own family. Did you ever see the movie "Blast from the Past" where the boy grows up in the fall out shelter, and as an adult leaves because his parents suspect it's now safe outside, and then he finds there was no war, and the world is different than his parents could ever grasp? That's kind of like my very, very isolated, no sibling childhood, and the adaptations I had to make when I entered the real world at 22. In the movie he returns and helps his parents to adapt. But in the real world, even when I had established myself and my family, I was never able to make them happy. They both died in nursing homes almost totally miserable. This was just my attempt to show that it can take decades to learn what people up thread have been saying. It just is not possible to make people happy, though you may be able to support them if they take the necessary steps. Sadly that did not happen in my case.
posted by forthright at 4:07 PM on April 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by forthright at 4:07 PM on April 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm very, very sorry your family is like this, but the first thing you need to remember is, YOU CAN'T FIX OTHER PEOPLE. You can't fix your father and make him act like a decent human being; you can't fix your mother and make her get the heck out of there; the ONLY person you can fix is yourself, and the best thing you can do for yourself is Get Out Of There Now.
Your father is emotionally threatening and blackmailing your mother into staying; and now your mother has pulled the same treatment on you, with that "dad will blame her" and "she'll never have any happiness" if you were to leave.
Get out, move into a dorm or group house but GET OUT. And for your mom? Find her some local resources for abused women, because that's what she is.
posted by easily confused at 4:41 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your father is emotionally threatening and blackmailing your mother into staying; and now your mother has pulled the same treatment on you, with that "dad will blame her" and "she'll never have any happiness" if you were to leave.
Get out, move into a dorm or group house but GET OUT. And for your mom? Find her some local resources for abused women, because that's what she is.
posted by easily confused at 4:41 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
your dad is emotionally manipulating your mom and your mom is emotionally manipulating you. your mom feels she can't leave your dad and you feel you can't leave your mom. ugh, nice spiral. the thing is you can leave, so can your mom. it may not be easy, but neither of you is being held against your will. get some support from a therapist or women's shelter/support group and move out. if you go back you are actually enabling your mom. if you leave permanently mom just may realize how bad her situation is and finally get out herself. do not enable her dysfunctional behavior of staying with an emotionally abusive spouse. she is not being held physically hostage but she just might leave when she is unhappy enough. right now, she has not hit bottom emotionally. without you there she just might.
posted by wildflower at 5:37 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by wildflower at 5:37 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
My mom says if I leave, my father will blame her for making me "too independant" and "ungrateful"
Your mother is a grownup and has to fight her own fights. This is a situation in which you have to take care of yourself first.
She has to work up to courage to leave your father on her own - you can't do it for her, although you can offer her support. But get the hell out of dodge first. This will help you keep your sanity - which you need to help your mother anayway. Plus it will also show her that leaving is a thing that can be done. It may even inspire her. Two birds with one stone.
But, first, you need to protect yourself. Get out now.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:49 PM on April 28, 2013
Your mother is a grownup and has to fight her own fights. This is a situation in which you have to take care of yourself first.
She has to work up to courage to leave your father on her own - you can't do it for her, although you can offer her support. But get the hell out of dodge first. This will help you keep your sanity - which you need to help your mother anayway. Plus it will also show her that leaving is a thing that can be done. It may even inspire her. Two birds with one stone.
But, first, you need to protect yourself. Get out now.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:49 PM on April 28, 2013
your mother is not the only one that may be being manipulated by your father. If his actions are also preventing you from leaving, then you are being manipulated as well. That's how power dynamics work, and much of your description and answer are textbook examples of codependency with your mother.
She's in a bad situation. You have to be in that bad situation with her.
The situation makes you so mad, and you want someone to change it. As long as that someone is not you. Because you have one year of uni left.
It's not fair that they treat the male children better than the female children. Yes, mom's guilty of having emotional affairs but that's dad's fault for being a bastard.
These are all rationalisations. You don't want to go back to your family situation, full-stop. That's it. It doesn't matter why, or what happened. If you go back there, it will shape the rest of your life in a negative way. You've had an experience away, that has allowed you to get closer to a version of yourself you are happy with, and you want that to continue.
So continue it by not going home. Get a job. Go to uni. Lots of people do it. It's only one year.
I'll tell you a secret about your mother and father. She's not that innocent. He's not that horrible. She doesn't really want to leave (otherwise she would have left...) and he's not that terrible (because you're considering going back).
Overall, either make a move and embrace yourself, or put the discovery aside and go home. But don't put it on anyone else for any reason. You're the one who will make your choices, and you are the one who will have to live with it.
posted by nickrussell at 6:16 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
She's in a bad situation. You have to be in that bad situation with her.
The situation makes you so mad, and you want someone to change it. As long as that someone is not you. Because you have one year of uni left.
It's not fair that they treat the male children better than the female children. Yes, mom's guilty of having emotional affairs but that's dad's fault for being a bastard.
These are all rationalisations. You don't want to go back to your family situation, full-stop. That's it. It doesn't matter why, or what happened. If you go back there, it will shape the rest of your life in a negative way. You've had an experience away, that has allowed you to get closer to a version of yourself you are happy with, and you want that to continue.
So continue it by not going home. Get a job. Go to uni. Lots of people do it. It's only one year.
I'll tell you a secret about your mother and father. She's not that innocent. He's not that horrible. She doesn't really want to leave (otherwise she would have left...) and he's not that terrible (because you're considering going back).
Overall, either make a move and embrace yourself, or put the discovery aside and go home. But don't put it on anyone else for any reason. You're the one who will make your choices, and you are the one who will have to live with it.
posted by nickrussell at 6:16 PM on April 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
OP, you have gotten some very good advice from other people here. But I am curious, what is your ethnic/cultural background?
posted by satine at 6:20 PM on April 28, 2013
posted by satine at 6:20 PM on April 28, 2013
My mom doesn't have a choice in leaving, she feels--there is no choice. She is forced to stay through his blackmail and abuse.
Your mom may not tell lies, but she believes them. And so do you.
She has a choice: leave or stay. She has her own source of income and could leave, but she chooses not to. She absolutely is not forced to stay to endure blackmail and abuse.
You also have the choice to stay or leave. I'm not saying it would be easy. Maybe your mom could get her own place and you could live with her. But it sounds to me as if she will probably choose to stay. Will you?
posted by Linnee at 7:12 PM on April 28, 2013
Your mom may not tell lies, but she believes them. And so do you.
She has a choice: leave or stay. She has her own source of income and could leave, but she chooses not to. She absolutely is not forced to stay to endure blackmail and abuse.
You also have the choice to stay or leave. I'm not saying it would be easy. Maybe your mom could get her own place and you could live with her. But it sounds to me as if she will probably choose to stay. Will you?
posted by Linnee at 7:12 PM on April 28, 2013
I urge you to re-read your question from before your trip, you received some solid advice then about dealing with your parent's toxic relationship. You spent 20 years steeping in that so it's understandable that one MF post isn't going to unravel it all, but I do hope this time you spend your energy planning out what is best for you.
posted by Dynex at 8:19 PM on April 28, 2013
posted by Dynex at 8:19 PM on April 28, 2013
My mom says if I leave, my father will blame her for making me "too independant" and "ungrateful"
Maybe. But the point is more that if you leave, your mother will realise that she can/could have left too and she doesn't want to face that.
So you can either do what you know you should do (and what she should do) or you can stay and become depressed and anxious yourself.
posted by heyjude at 8:42 PM on April 28, 2013
Maybe. But the point is more that if you leave, your mother will realise that she can/could have left too and she doesn't want to face that.
So you can either do what you know you should do (and what she should do) or you can stay and become depressed and anxious yourself.
posted by heyjude at 8:42 PM on April 28, 2013
I can't be happy when my family isn't.
One more thing on this; you absolutely can. You just have to let yourself.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:27 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
One more thing on this; you absolutely can. You just have to let yourself.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:27 PM on April 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You've gotten good advice. I'd just like to add one point about the blackmail issue. The only possible answer to these "you'll be ruined" kind of threats is, "So what!" "Bring it on!" "Right back at you, buddy!" Bullies are cowards. He needs your mom a lot more than she needs him, I dare say. There is absolutely no reason a woman who is physically and financially able to leave an abusive man cannot leave. Let him do his worst. I have gone through this and remember vividly people saying to me, "Don't you know that you are the one we care about? He's not the person that we come around to spend time with, you are." I absolutely did not even know that 'our friends' were really my friends; I had been brainwashed pretty badly.
As for you, the sooner you make the choice to be responsible for building the life you want, the better off you will be. Leave and don't look back. Start building your future. Let your mom cross that bridge to come to you. She will, even if it takes her a while to learn she doesn't have to go back, either. It's not your job to teach that lesson to your mom, it's your job to learn that lesson for yourself. If it is hard for you for a year or two, make light of it--students are expected to be poor and struggling; work hard and have fun anyway. Plant your flag in the rock of sanity and let them find their way to you, if they can. Be strong and go for it.
posted by Anitanola at 12:53 AM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
As for you, the sooner you make the choice to be responsible for building the life you want, the better off you will be. Leave and don't look back. Start building your future. Let your mom cross that bridge to come to you. She will, even if it takes her a while to learn she doesn't have to go back, either. It's not your job to teach that lesson to your mom, it's your job to learn that lesson for yourself. If it is hard for you for a year or two, make light of it--students are expected to be poor and struggling; work hard and have fun anyway. Plant your flag in the rock of sanity and let them find their way to you, if they can. Be strong and go for it.
posted by Anitanola at 12:53 AM on April 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
Your uni will have resources for students in your situation. They will be able to tell you how to make this work financially. There may be hidden funds for people like you.
I remember being a student with no income (that is, gross income:£0.00), no jobs to be had despite my best efforts, and no entitlement to state benefits despite my best efforts. I did manage to earn £30 during the 12-week summer vacation, but I also had to pay poll tax that glorious Thatcher year so it didn't help much.
And then people who had graduated years earlier would say "why don't you get a flat with your mates?" Well, duh, because landlords don't accept the phrase "Don't worry about money! Students are supposed to be poor!" as payment.
I say this not to convince you that you can't afford to live out, but to show you that I don't say it flippantly when I encourage you to try to find a way.
At least do all your investigations before you dismiss the idea.
More later, I'm on my phone.
posted by tel3path at 5:56 AM on April 29, 2013
I remember being a student with no income (that is, gross income:£0.00), no jobs to be had despite my best efforts, and no entitlement to state benefits despite my best efforts. I did manage to earn £30 during the 12-week summer vacation, but I also had to pay poll tax that glorious Thatcher year so it didn't help much.
And then people who had graduated years earlier would say "why don't you get a flat with your mates?" Well, duh, because landlords don't accept the phrase "Don't worry about money! Students are supposed to be poor!" as payment.
I say this not to convince you that you can't afford to live out, but to show you that I don't say it flippantly when I encourage you to try to find a way.
At least do all your investigations before you dismiss the idea.
More later, I'm on my phone.
posted by tel3path at 5:56 AM on April 29, 2013
Your family is sick, but that doesn't mean that you have to be.
Your Mom, as much as you love her, as much as you dislike your Dad and his family, has chosen to live in this dysfunctional mess. Not only that, she wants you there to keep her company in this misery.
GET OUT NOW!
Take out loans if you have to (and I NEVER advise taking on debt) but live on campus until you graduate. Get a job. Sacrifice something, but get the fuck out of that mess.
The only thing worse than living in a fucked up dynamic for 21 years, is living in it one more day.
Say this to your Mom. "Mom, I love you and it's killing me to see you beat down in this relationship. You have the power to leave and yet you don't. Not only that, you want me to stay there with you, even though you know that it harms me. I'm not willing to do that anymore. I'm going to be strong, and I'm going to show you how to do this. I'm moving out. I'm going to live in a dorm and then when I graduate, I'll get a job and my own place. I want to support you, but I'm not going to enable you to stay in this horrible situation any longer. Now, if you stay, that's your decision. If you want to leave, I'll support you in any way that's in my power to do so, but as long as you stay, I can't support that decision. I love you, I'll talk to you, but I'm not going to make it easy for you to continue on in this way."
Go to your university and see what they can do in the way of loans to get you out of there.
Until you recognize that YOU are mirroring your Mom's decisions, you are doomed to live her life just as she's lived hers.
Just as your Mom has reasons she wants to stay in the relationship, YOU are stating the exact same reasons.
Unless you leave, this will be your life too.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:23 AM on April 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Your Mom, as much as you love her, as much as you dislike your Dad and his family, has chosen to live in this dysfunctional mess. Not only that, she wants you there to keep her company in this misery.
GET OUT NOW!
Take out loans if you have to (and I NEVER advise taking on debt) but live on campus until you graduate. Get a job. Sacrifice something, but get the fuck out of that mess.
The only thing worse than living in a fucked up dynamic for 21 years, is living in it one more day.
Say this to your Mom. "Mom, I love you and it's killing me to see you beat down in this relationship. You have the power to leave and yet you don't. Not only that, you want me to stay there with you, even though you know that it harms me. I'm not willing to do that anymore. I'm going to be strong, and I'm going to show you how to do this. I'm moving out. I'm going to live in a dorm and then when I graduate, I'll get a job and my own place. I want to support you, but I'm not going to enable you to stay in this horrible situation any longer. Now, if you stay, that's your decision. If you want to leave, I'll support you in any way that's in my power to do so, but as long as you stay, I can't support that decision. I love you, I'll talk to you, but I'm not going to make it easy for you to continue on in this way."
Go to your university and see what they can do in the way of loans to get you out of there.
Until you recognize that YOU are mirroring your Mom's decisions, you are doomed to live her life just as she's lived hers.
Just as your Mom has reasons she wants to stay in the relationship, YOU are stating the exact same reasons.
Unless you leave, this will be your life too.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:23 AM on April 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: What I was going to say is: the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
You're already like them. If you want to be like them for the rest of your life, then continue to play their game by their rules.
For example, you say you don't want to do something because your mother says your dad will say X.
What happened in that interaction isn't that your dad said X. The thing that happened, in the actual world, was that your mother said your dad would say X. And because your mother said that, you didn't do the thing you wanted to do.
I'm not suggesting your mother was lying. Maybe your dad would have said X. But you didn't change your behaviour because of something your dad said, you changed your behaviour because of something your mom said.
Furthermore, what if your dad had said X? Imagine this, your dad says "you're ungrateful and you're too independent."
Well? What is the worst possible consequence of your dad saying that? That he has a bad opinion of you? Apparently he already has a bad opinion of you, and you're living your life in fear that he'll express it?
Or maybe you're living your life in fear that your mother will tell you he expressed it?
I'm sorry to have to say this but your mother isn't shielding you at all. She is roping you in to be victimized as badly as she is. I'm not suggesting she's evil, it's simply that it's 100% normal for parents in bad situations to lie that they're shielding their child from the worst of it, when this is rarely even close to the truth.
You don't have to spend the rest of your life trying to protect your mother. She's a grown woman with more life experience than you have, and she hasn't been able to protect herself, and you won't be able to protect her either. You might be able to lie about it, of course, that's always an option, but it's not recommended.
Frankly even if the worst things you're saying are true - that he spent $3000 bugging her workplace to record your mother flirting with other men and will expose her if she doesn't do what he wants - are ludicrous situations upheld with phantom threats. I guarantee you he could take out a double-page ad in the paper about your mother's supposed emotional affairs and he wouldn't be hurting anybody but himself.
Nobody is shielding you from the worst and you can't stop the worst from happening by continuing to play their game. The worst is already happening. This is the worst.
posted by tel3path at 7:03 AM on April 29, 2013 [24 favorites]
You're already like them. If you want to be like them for the rest of your life, then continue to play their game by their rules.
For example, you say you don't want to do something because your mother says your dad will say X.
What happened in that interaction isn't that your dad said X. The thing that happened, in the actual world, was that your mother said your dad would say X. And because your mother said that, you didn't do the thing you wanted to do.
I'm not suggesting your mother was lying. Maybe your dad would have said X. But you didn't change your behaviour because of something your dad said, you changed your behaviour because of something your mom said.
Furthermore, what if your dad had said X? Imagine this, your dad says "you're ungrateful and you're too independent."
Well? What is the worst possible consequence of your dad saying that? That he has a bad opinion of you? Apparently he already has a bad opinion of you, and you're living your life in fear that he'll express it?
Or maybe you're living your life in fear that your mother will tell you he expressed it?
I'm sorry to have to say this but your mother isn't shielding you at all. She is roping you in to be victimized as badly as she is. I'm not suggesting she's evil, it's simply that it's 100% normal for parents in bad situations to lie that they're shielding their child from the worst of it, when this is rarely even close to the truth.
You don't have to spend the rest of your life trying to protect your mother. She's a grown woman with more life experience than you have, and she hasn't been able to protect herself, and you won't be able to protect her either. You might be able to lie about it, of course, that's always an option, but it's not recommended.
Frankly even if the worst things you're saying are true - that he spent $3000 bugging her workplace to record your mother flirting with other men and will expose her if she doesn't do what he wants - are ludicrous situations upheld with phantom threats. I guarantee you he could take out a double-page ad in the paper about your mother's supposed emotional affairs and he wouldn't be hurting anybody but himself.
Nobody is shielding you from the worst and you can't stop the worst from happening by continuing to play their game. The worst is already happening. This is the worst.
posted by tel3path at 7:03 AM on April 29, 2013 [24 favorites]
Your Mom's situation is rotten, but she is an adult, and she has to make her own decisions. You can help her and you can care, but you can't be responsible for her. If you find a different place to live, you can potentially be a safe harbor in case your Mom ever decides to leave. One thing you can do to help is to let her know the resources available for women who leave an abusive home, and you can tell her she doesn't deserve to be treated badly, and deserves a chance to be happy.
posted by theora55 at 7:45 AM on April 29, 2013
posted by theora55 at 7:45 AM on April 29, 2013
By leaving, and staying out of the mess that is your current family's situation, you might show your mother that she can leave. If nothing else, you can provide her a place to stay. Once you have your own place, you can set the rules for who is allowed in and how much notice they have to give before visiting.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:20 AM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 9:20 AM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
You will be doing everyone a favor by getting on your own two feet.
Your mom might seem like a victim, but at her age, she's actually a volunteer. You don't have to volunteer for her same life.
Also, like filthy light thief says, you'll be another resource for her if she decides she's tired of what she's got and she wants a change.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:40 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your mom might seem like a victim, but at her age, she's actually a volunteer. You don't have to volunteer for her same life.
Also, like filthy light thief says, you'll be another resource for her if she decides she's tired of what she's got and she wants a change.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:40 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Everyone above has said it much better than I. Please listen to them.
Get out. Tell your mother it's time for her to get out, and then leave the door open for her in your new digs.
If you think that there is a potential for your father to become physically abusive, you need to protect yourself. If your mother chooses to stay because of that, there is NOTHING you can do.
Take care of yourself. Become a healthy and happy person, living independently. In the long run, that is all a good mother could ever want for their child, and it will make your mother happy to see you that way. Keeping you close now, trapping you in a bad situation so that you two can go shopping, etc, might give her some small pleasures, but as a mother, I know that sort of selfish behavior is detrimental to you, and so does she, if she'd admit it.
"too independant" and "ungrateful"
At 21, it's time to be independent. As the child of an abusive father, and the product of a dysfunctional family, there's a lot to be ungrateful for. Just get out. That's the best thing you can do for you and your mother. Show her where the door is, and let her see escape is possible.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:22 AM on April 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
Get out. Tell your mother it's time for her to get out, and then leave the door open for her in your new digs.
If you think that there is a potential for your father to become physically abusive, you need to protect yourself. If your mother chooses to stay because of that, there is NOTHING you can do.
Take care of yourself. Become a healthy and happy person, living independently. In the long run, that is all a good mother could ever want for their child, and it will make your mother happy to see you that way. Keeping you close now, trapping you in a bad situation so that you two can go shopping, etc, might give her some small pleasures, but as a mother, I know that sort of selfish behavior is detrimental to you, and so does she, if she'd admit it.
"too independant" and "ungrateful"
At 21, it's time to be independent. As the child of an abusive father, and the product of a dysfunctional family, there's a lot to be ungrateful for. Just get out. That's the best thing you can do for you and your mother. Show her where the door is, and let her see escape is possible.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:22 AM on April 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: My mom is only 44. She's young.
Gah, reading this has been a gigantic wake up call--
I feel like planning even the next minute detail--how should my demeanor be towards my Dad when I tell him I'm moving out? Do I even tell him?
Thanks for everything. I have never seriously thought about moving out before. This is easier for me to do as I come in from exchange. I should be formal.
Thanks everyone.
posted by rhythm_queen at 8:17 PM on May 3, 2013
Gah, reading this has been a gigantic wake up call--
I feel like planning even the next minute detail--how should my demeanor be towards my Dad when I tell him I'm moving out? Do I even tell him?
Thanks for everything. I have never seriously thought about moving out before. This is easier for me to do as I come in from exchange. I should be formal.
Thanks everyone.
posted by rhythm_queen at 8:17 PM on May 3, 2013
Just pack and go. Why would you want to deal with more crazy from your dad?
Call your mom from your new place once you get settled and talk to her. Let her know you're there for her, but that you have to live your own life first.
Good luck, and happy rest of your life!
posted by BlueHorse at 11:03 PM on May 3, 2013
Call your mom from your new place once you get settled and talk to her. Let her know you're there for her, but that you have to live your own life first.
Good luck, and happy rest of your life!
posted by BlueHorse at 11:03 PM on May 3, 2013
Have something lined up before you get home. When you arrive, instead of going home to your parents, you go there.
You call your dad the next day, or maybe a couple days later and say "Yeah settling back in is going super great, I love my new apartment and roommates! TTYL!" Then maybe drop in for dinner another night that week.
posted by Sara C. at 11:56 PM on May 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
You call your dad the next day, or maybe a couple days later and say "Yeah settling back in is going super great, I love my new apartment and roommates! TTYL!" Then maybe drop in for dinner another night that week.
posted by Sara C. at 11:56 PM on May 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mynameisluka at 2:17 PM on April 28, 2013 [9 favorites]