Can you get an STD from making out with someone?
April 24, 2013 1:28 PM Subscribe
I've been out of the dating arena for a long time (years), and I'm just now starting to go on dates and stuff. So far nothing has happened, but it's starting to get to the point where it might. If I make out with a girl, could I get an STD? I'm not sure whether it's "very possible," "unlikely, but not impossible," or what. Most of the safer sex info is kind of vague, which I find even more alarming.
I like this chart from SF City Clinic. Undoes the vagueness.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 1:32 PM on April 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 1:32 PM on April 24, 2013 [6 favorites]
If I make out with a girl, could I get an STD?
If you make out with a woman who has a cold sore (a form of the herpes virus,) you might catch it. This would put you into something like 70% of the American population who get cold sores.
posted by griphus at 1:32 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you make out with a woman who has a cold sore (a form of the herpes virus,) you might catch it. This would put you into something like 70% of the American population who get cold sores.
posted by griphus at 1:32 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
You can get oral herpes, sure. A significant percentage of the population has this already (many of them don't know), so it's not something I'd spend too much time worrying about.
HIV and other maladies, almost certainly not.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:33 PM on April 24, 2013
HIV and other maladies, almost certainly not.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:33 PM on April 24, 2013
Best answer: If you and your makeout partner have open sores in your mouths, there is a very small chance of HIV transmission, assuming that the other person is HIV positive (and she is probably not).
Oral herpes, which you probably already have even if you've never had a cold sore, is obviously transmissible via kissing.
But this question is kind of like, "Can I get pregnant if I gave my boyfriend a hand job and then I went to the bathroom three hours later and my hand kind of touched my general crotch area?"
To which the answer is: No. Take a chill pill.
Enjoy making out!
posted by ablazingsaddle at 1:35 PM on April 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
Oral herpes, which you probably already have even if you've never had a cold sore, is obviously transmissible via kissing.
But this question is kind of like, "Can I get pregnant if I gave my boyfriend a hand job and then I went to the bathroom three hours later and my hand kind of touched my general crotch area?"
To which the answer is: No. Take a chill pill.
Enjoy making out!
posted by ablazingsaddle at 1:35 PM on April 24, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also the safe sex info you're looking at is vague in re: kissing because the "sexually" in "sexually transmitted disease" generally refers to activities involving the genitals.
posted by griphus at 1:37 PM on April 24, 2013
posted by griphus at 1:37 PM on April 24, 2013
Cold sores are indeed caused by the herpes virus, which can be transmitted orally.
But most things that people call "cold sores" are actually "canker sores," and they're not at all the same thing. The sores caused by herpes generally occur outside the mouth, and are fluid filled blisters. Canker sores generally occur inside the mouth, are idiopathic, and are shallow, ulcer-like affairs rather than blisters.
So yes, you can transfer herpes orally, but fewer people have HSV than get canker sores, and the latter are not transmissible.
posted by valkyryn at 1:43 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
But most things that people call "cold sores" are actually "canker sores," and they're not at all the same thing. The sores caused by herpes generally occur outside the mouth, and are fluid filled blisters. Canker sores generally occur inside the mouth, are idiopathic, and are shallow, ulcer-like affairs rather than blisters.
So yes, you can transfer herpes orally, but fewer people have HSV than get canker sores, and the latter are not transmissible.
posted by valkyryn at 1:43 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I appreciate what you're saying @ablazingsaddle but (as a past hypochondriac with a fixation on HIV) I think your answer might just cause unnecessary worry. I don't think there are any known cases of HIV being transmitted in that way - there would have to be pretty obvious bleeding, probably in both partners' mouths, and saliva has anti-HIV properties.
posted by Dorothea_in_Rome at 1:44 PM on April 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Dorothea_in_Rome at 1:44 PM on April 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sorry - when I said "very small," I should have said, "nearly non-existent and theoretical."
posted by ablazingsaddle at 1:48 PM on April 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by ablazingsaddle at 1:48 PM on April 24, 2013 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks a lot for the answers everyone. I checked out that SF City Clinic page that R Nekker linked to. It says condoms prevent herpes transmission. Really??? I always heard they didn't.
Does anyone know what the deal is there?
posted by trevor_case at 2:08 PM on April 24, 2013
Does anyone know what the deal is there?
posted by trevor_case at 2:08 PM on April 24, 2013
What part of the site are you on? There's a herpes primer here and the information looks legit:
"A potential partner would need to understand that it's possible for him or her to become infected even if you're using condoms since not all affected areas can be covered by a condom.
...
Condoms provides some, but not complete protection, against transmission of the herpes virus. If you or your partner has herpes, abstain from sexual activities when sores are present."
posted by griphus at 2:11 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
"A potential partner would need to understand that it's possible for him or her to become infected even if you're using condoms since not all affected areas can be covered by a condom.
...
Condoms provides some, but not complete protection, against transmission of the herpes virus. If you or your partner has herpes, abstain from sexual activities when sores are present."
posted by griphus at 2:11 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Some STDs are transmitted by bodily fluids. But some are transmitted by any old skin-to-skin contact, and count as STDs only because they prefer to live on the type of skin that you have on and around your genitals. Herpes (and genital warts, FWIW) falls into that second category.
If they're used right and they don't break, condoms are really good at preventing your bodily fluids from getting in your partner's orifices and vice versa.
Even if they're used right and they don't break, condoms aren't totally perfect at preventing skin-to-skin contact. Sometimes a condom will stay on, but roll up a little bit, so that the skin at the base of the penis is exposed. When that happens you're still getting good protection against pregnancy and against fluid-transmitted diseases like HIV, but you're possibly exposing each other to diseases like herpes that are transmitted skin-to-skin.
posted by Now there are two. There are two _______. at 2:16 PM on April 24, 2013
If they're used right and they don't break, condoms are really good at preventing your bodily fluids from getting in your partner's orifices and vice versa.
Even if they're used right and they don't break, condoms aren't totally perfect at preventing skin-to-skin contact. Sometimes a condom will stay on, but roll up a little bit, so that the skin at the base of the penis is exposed. When that happens you're still getting good protection against pregnancy and against fluid-transmitted diseases like HIV, but you're possibly exposing each other to diseases like herpes that are transmitted skin-to-skin.
posted by Now there are two. There are two _______. at 2:16 PM on April 24, 2013
Response by poster: Oh, ok. Somehow I missed that.
Sorry to expand my question. I hope I'm not breaking any rules. But I was also wondering what level of risk there actually is with herpes.
If you go all the way with someone and you use a condom carefully, and as far as both of you know they don't have anything but they haven't actually been tested, what would be the risk of getting genital herpes? One in five? One in a thousand?
(BTW I was tested for HIV, chlamydia, and herpes after abstaining for many months and I don't have any of those.)
posted by trevor_case at 2:22 PM on April 24, 2013
Sorry to expand my question. I hope I'm not breaking any rules. But I was also wondering what level of risk there actually is with herpes.
If you go all the way with someone and you use a condom carefully, and as far as both of you know they don't have anything but they haven't actually been tested, what would be the risk of getting genital herpes? One in five? One in a thousand?
(BTW I was tested for HIV, chlamydia, and herpes after abstaining for many months and I don't have any of those.)
posted by trevor_case at 2:22 PM on April 24, 2013
Best answer: If you go all the way with someone and you use a condom carefully, and as far as both of you know they don't have anything but they haven't actually been tested, what would be the risk of getting genital herpes? One in five? One in a thousand?
If someone finds an actual number, kudos to them, but in general, herpes is quite common and easy to transmit. From the CDC's website, 1 in 6 adults between the ages of 14 and 49 have genital herpes. And also from the CDC:
The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases, including genital herpes, is to abstain from sexual contact, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and is known to be uninfected.
In other words, if you're having sex with someone, you need to be okay with the fact that you may get herpes. Having sex involves taking a risk. I'm not advocating abstinence AT ALL, by the way.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 2:37 PM on April 24, 2013
If someone finds an actual number, kudos to them, but in general, herpes is quite common and easy to transmit. From the CDC's website, 1 in 6 adults between the ages of 14 and 49 have genital herpes. And also from the CDC:
The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases, including genital herpes, is to abstain from sexual contact, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and is known to be uninfected.
In other words, if you're having sex with someone, you need to be okay with the fact that you may get herpes. Having sex involves taking a risk. I'm not advocating abstinence AT ALL, by the way.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 2:37 PM on April 24, 2013
Best answer: It sounds like you need a primer on STIs. I would suggest the Scarleteen Infection Section as a reference but I'd actually start with the book, which is an outstanding guide to sexuality and deals comprehensively with STIs and risk.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:49 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:49 PM on April 24, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you're getting to the point of sexual activity with someone, you should try to be comfortable just outright asking them about their STI status, i.e. when was the last time they were tested (and they should be fine with being asked). You might also consider requesting the HPV vaccine from your doctor or a local sexual health clinic if you're worried about HPV/genital warts - they usually give it to anyone who wants it, thought it can be expensive.
posted by ghost dance beat at 2:50 PM on April 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by ghost dance beat at 2:50 PM on April 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
Although it's certainly possible to get an STD from kissing, other then oral herpes...kissing isn't a very risky thing to do. Of course, I'm not a doctor and I don't know the full risks of kissing. If your really concerned, I would talk to your doctor about STD's and the risks of making out. You probably won't even need to pay for an appointment, just ask the question over the phone. See what they say. I think it's good that you're being safe, but you don't want to make yourself crazy. When sex comes into the picture, then yes protect yourself at all times. Before having sex it's important to ask your partner whether they have any stds. And of course no matter what, always wear a condom. It's a crazy world out there, but no need to make yourself nuts or live in a bubble. Good luck in the dating world!
posted by ljs30 at 3:11 PM on April 24, 2013
posted by ljs30 at 3:11 PM on April 24, 2013
Best answer: Regarding your follow-up question:
If you know for a fact that you don't have genital herpes, then your total chance of getting it from a sexual partner is equal to (chance that your partner has genital herpes) multiplied by (chance of it being transmitted if your partner definitely had genital herpes).
If 1 in 6 people have genital herpes, as ablazingsaddle said, then (chance that your partner has genital herpes) = 16.7%, if they've never been tested.
Actually, if they've never had any symptoms, the chance is probably lower. This 1990 study implies that approximately 70% of people with genital herpes are asymptomatic. If I'm doing my math right, that implies that people who have never had any genital herpes symptoms have around a 12% chance of having genital herpes.
(Math: Out of 1000 people, 16.7% of them = 167 have genital herpes, and 1000 - 167 = 833 do not. Of those 167 people with genital herpes, 70% of them, or 167 * 0.7 = 116.9, have no symptoms. So the total number of people with no symptoms is 833 + 116.9 = 949.9. So the fraction of people who have no symptoms, but have genital herpes anyway, is 116.9 / 949.9 = 0.123, or about 12%.)
What's the chance of genital herpes being transmitted if your partner definitely had it?
One 1993 study looked at 144 man-woman couples where one partner definitely had genital herpes and one partner definitely did not. The couples were counseled about avoiding sex when the herpes-positive partner had active lesions. After about a year, genital herpes had been transmitted in about 10% of couples. (Only about 21% of these couples used condoms regularly; they couldn't draw any conclusions about how condom use affected transmission rates.)
Take 10% as a rough approximation of (chance of it being transmitted if your partner definitely had genital herpes). If you use a condom correctly, it's probably slightly lower.
Multiply those together. 0.167 * 0.1 = 0.017 (approximately). That's a 1.7% chance. Roughly, call it 1 in 60.
If they've never had any symptoms, then it's 0.12 * 0.01 = 0.012, which is about 1 in 80.
Again, the real chances are probably somewhat lower, if you always use a condom correctly -- my guess would be something like 1 in 100.
You can improve those odds quite a bit by asking a prospective new sexual partner if they've been tested, and if not, asking them to get tested.
(Yeah, I know those studies are old. I'm having trouble finding more recent studies that give numbers for the same things, and I'm definitely having trouble finding solid citations for how condom use affects transmission. But this is a fairly back-of-the-envelope calculation anyway.)
posted by snowmentality at 4:11 PM on April 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you know for a fact that you don't have genital herpes, then your total chance of getting it from a sexual partner is equal to (chance that your partner has genital herpes) multiplied by (chance of it being transmitted if your partner definitely had genital herpes).
If 1 in 6 people have genital herpes, as ablazingsaddle said, then (chance that your partner has genital herpes) = 16.7%, if they've never been tested.
Actually, if they've never had any symptoms, the chance is probably lower. This 1990 study implies that approximately 70% of people with genital herpes are asymptomatic. If I'm doing my math right, that implies that people who have never had any genital herpes symptoms have around a 12% chance of having genital herpes.
(Math: Out of 1000 people, 16.7% of them = 167 have genital herpes, and 1000 - 167 = 833 do not. Of those 167 people with genital herpes, 70% of them, or 167 * 0.7 = 116.9, have no symptoms. So the total number of people with no symptoms is 833 + 116.9 = 949.9. So the fraction of people who have no symptoms, but have genital herpes anyway, is 116.9 / 949.9 = 0.123, or about 12%.)
What's the chance of genital herpes being transmitted if your partner definitely had it?
One 1993 study looked at 144 man-woman couples where one partner definitely had genital herpes and one partner definitely did not. The couples were counseled about avoiding sex when the herpes-positive partner had active lesions. After about a year, genital herpes had been transmitted in about 10% of couples. (Only about 21% of these couples used condoms regularly; they couldn't draw any conclusions about how condom use affected transmission rates.)
Take 10% as a rough approximation of (chance of it being transmitted if your partner definitely had genital herpes). If you use a condom correctly, it's probably slightly lower.
Multiply those together. 0.167 * 0.1 = 0.017 (approximately). That's a 1.7% chance. Roughly, call it 1 in 60.
If they've never had any symptoms, then it's 0.12 * 0.01 = 0.012, which is about 1 in 80.
Again, the real chances are probably somewhat lower, if you always use a condom correctly -- my guess would be something like 1 in 100.
You can improve those odds quite a bit by asking a prospective new sexual partner if they've been tested, and if not, asking them to get tested.
(Yeah, I know those studies are old. I'm having trouble finding more recent studies that give numbers for the same things, and I'm definitely having trouble finding solid citations for how condom use affects transmission. But this is a fairly back-of-the-envelope calculation anyway.)
posted by snowmentality at 4:11 PM on April 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
I checked out that SF City Clinic page that R Nekker linked to. It says condoms prevent herpes transmission.
Not sure where you're getting that? As far as I can tell it just says that condoms greatly reduce the risk of STIs.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2013
Not sure where you're getting that? As far as I can tell it just says that condoms greatly reduce the risk of STIs.
posted by en forme de poire at 8:41 PM on April 24, 2013
I think you may be more comfortable if you ask partners to get tested - but I understand it's awkward to ask before even the kissing stage.
Condoms are not a safe barrier against herpes - by the time you get to the sexytimes you really should feel comfortable asking someone about their test status.
posted by corb at 5:31 AM on April 25, 2013
Condoms are not a safe barrier against herpes - by the time you get to the sexytimes you really should feel comfortable asking someone about their test status.
posted by corb at 5:31 AM on April 25, 2013
by the time you get to the sexytimes you really should feel comfortable asking someone about their test status.
Yes, but a lot of people are carriers of herpes and don't know it because they had a very mild outbreak once or never had an outbreak.
I think it's generally better to ask when the person last got tested, and what they got tested for. I have had to specifically ask for an HIV test at a clinic. Almost no STD clinics do herpes blood tests because the results don't tell you if you had HSV1 on your genitals or HSV2 in your mouth or wherever.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 7:14 AM on April 25, 2013
Yes, but a lot of people are carriers of herpes and don't know it because they had a very mild outbreak once or never had an outbreak.
I think it's generally better to ask when the person last got tested, and what they got tested for. I have had to specifically ask for an HIV test at a clinic. Almost no STD clinics do herpes blood tests because the results don't tell you if you had HSV1 on your genitals or HSV2 in your mouth or wherever.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 7:14 AM on April 25, 2013
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