Would you expect to split gas money?
April 11, 2013 7:15 AM Subscribe
When I invited people to carpool with me, I didn't specify that I would expect gas and toll money to be split evenly between us. Now I'm kind of feeling funny about asking for it. So, would you assume you would or would not have to pay, if you were one of my friends in this situation?
I'm traveling with three friends this summer. We'll be in the car for 5+ hours, each way, and there will be tolls. the whole trip was my idea, I've done all the planning, and the site we're staying is free (due to a family connection on my part.) So, because I didn't specify my expectations (that folks would split the travel cost with me) I feel like it's awkward for me to bring it up at this point.
If you were one of my friends, would you expect to have gas and tolls divided evenly? Would you expect to just chip in what you can? Or would you assume that since I was driving up there anyway, you shouldn't be expected to pay anything?
Please let me know if you need more info. Thanks in advance for your help!
I'm traveling with three friends this summer. We'll be in the car for 5+ hours, each way, and there will be tolls. the whole trip was my idea, I've done all the planning, and the site we're staying is free (due to a family connection on my part.) So, because I didn't specify my expectations (that folks would split the travel cost with me) I feel like it's awkward for me to bring it up at this point.
If you were one of my friends, would you expect to have gas and tolls divided evenly? Would you expect to just chip in what you can? Or would you assume that since I was driving up there anyway, you shouldn't be expected to pay anything?
Please let me know if you need more info. Thanks in advance for your help!
Hell yes.
If I was one of the friends. I would expect to pay 1/4 of the total of gas + tolls, at the very least. In fact, I might talk to the other 2 friends and suggest we split it in thirds, since you've provided the site, the actual vehicle, and the driving.
posted by Salamander at 7:20 AM on April 11, 2013 [6 favorites]
If I was one of the friends. I would expect to pay 1/4 of the total of gas + tolls, at the very least. In fact, I might talk to the other 2 friends and suggest we split it in thirds, since you've provided the site, the actual vehicle, and the driving.
posted by Salamander at 7:20 AM on April 11, 2013 [6 favorites]
Well . . . normally, I would assume that we would all share the expenses evenly, especially since it's your car. However, your terms are a little confusing - you say it's a carpool, then it's a road trip, then you say you were going up there anyway. If it's more of a "hey, I'm going up to Xville anyway, you guys need a ride?" type thing, I can see why your companions wouldn't necessarily assume they should share the burden.
That said, I would just ask them. No matter the situation, it's fair for them to pay their way - it's up to them if it's a cost prohibitive matter or not.
posted by Think_Long at 7:21 AM on April 11, 2013 [5 favorites]
That said, I would just ask them. No matter the situation, it's fair for them to pay their way - it's up to them if it's a cost prohibitive matter or not.
posted by Think_Long at 7:21 AM on April 11, 2013 [5 favorites]
How did you word the invite? "I'm headed to [family connection place] this summer, want to tag along?" or "Do you want to go on a vacation together?" Do you earn significantly more money than they do?
In general, though, I'd assume that gas and tolls would be split among everyone, and they'd spring for a nice meal for you to make up for the mileage on your car.
posted by jeather at 7:22 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
In general, though, I'd assume that gas and tolls would be split among everyone, and they'd spring for a nice meal for you to make up for the mileage on your car.
posted by jeather at 7:22 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes that's a road trip not a carpool, so as a rider I'd expect to share costs equally. If it was a carpool for a commute then either I'd take turns going in each person's car or contribute to the driver's costs, or if it was a very short commute maybe the driver would be rewarded just by being able to use carpool lanes for an easier commute.
posted by anadem at 7:23 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by anadem at 7:23 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yes you totally expect to pay fuel costs when getting a lift, especially on a 5 hour road trip. There's no need to make a big deal about it or feel awkward, just estimate the costs per person ahead of time and drop in a "oh btw gas and tolls will be $xx each" into a conversation or your pre-trip email or whatever.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:24 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:24 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would expect to split the costs unless you are Mr Moneybags and they aren't.
But to be on the safe side, you could help them be ready for it. For example, throw a comment into email along the lines of "I'm glad you'll be along on the road trip to help out with the gas and tolls. I figure it will come to something like, making a wild guess here, but something like X bucks total, which would be about Y bucks each [if that's feasible to calculate], depending on gas prices and so on."
posted by pracowity at 7:25 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
But to be on the safe side, you could help them be ready for it. For example, throw a comment into email along the lines of "I'm glad you'll be along on the road trip to help out with the gas and tolls. I figure it will come to something like, making a wild guess here, but something like X bucks total, which would be about Y bucks each [if that's feasible to calculate], depending on gas prices and so on."
posted by pracowity at 7:25 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
If I were one of your passengers, I would assume that the three of us would take care of gas and tolls because you were doing the driving and using your car. If it worked out that there was just one fill-up during the trip, we'd probably treat you to a meal to make up for not being around when you fill up again.
posted by gladly at 7:28 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by gladly at 7:28 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Similar suggestion pracowity -- minus the calculated specificity. Throw into an email "will you be able to help with gas and toll costs?"
posted by vitabellosi at 7:30 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by vitabellosi at 7:30 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Agree with Admiral. I'd consider asking for more if these weren't friends car insurance and wear and tear.
posted by cothebadger at 7:30 AM on April 11, 2013
posted by cothebadger at 7:30 AM on April 11, 2013
It's not unreasonable to expect everyone to kick in for gas and tolls on a trip that long - but without explicitly asking your passengers you're dealing with an Ask culture vs. Guess culture situation. Any reasonable person should be perfectly happy to help out with gas and tolls, but while some people will offer without being asked, others may be assuming that if you want them to defray the cost, you'll ask them.
posted by usonian at 7:31 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by usonian at 7:31 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would ask them, not tell them. If I got an email billing me (this is how much gas/tolls are - $N) I would be kind of eyerolly about it if you hadn't mentione dit before. It totally makes sense that you'd expect them to contribute, and they're probably expecting to contribute, but I think a request would be friendlier. "Hey, so it looks like this is going ot be a pretty cheap trip, since we're staying with (people), and I figure we'll each get our own food the whole time. Would you guys be willing to chip in for gas and tolls? It'll probably be about $N total."
This sounds totally like the infamous ask/guess culture. I'd be much more comfortable requesting than demanding it (and work on the assumption that they're not allowed to say no to this request), but maybe that's just me.
posted by aimedwander at 7:32 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
This sounds totally like the infamous ask/guess culture. I'd be much more comfortable requesting than demanding it (and work on the assumption that they're not allowed to say no to this request), but maybe that's just me.
posted by aimedwander at 7:32 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
if you are putting 10hrs of wear and tear on your car and giving me a free place to stay I'm not only paying for all gas and tolls but I'm also buying all the beer. You know your friend's history. If they have always been good about splitting the bills then no prep is necessary but if they are freeloading slackers then absolutely lay down the law beforehand.
posted by any major dude at 7:35 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by any major dude at 7:35 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
If I were on the trip, I'd offer to get the first tank of gas and the first toll. And if the other passengers didn't offer to get the second and third and so on, I'd look down on them to myself.
However, if I were you, I'd probably give them a chance to offer and not ask until the second tank of gas/toll/what-have-you, in the manner than aimedwander describes.
posted by Kurichina at 7:42 AM on April 11, 2013
However, if I were you, I'd probably give them a chance to offer and not ask until the second tank of gas/toll/what-have-you, in the manner than aimedwander describes.
posted by Kurichina at 7:42 AM on April 11, 2013
Last summer I went on a long road trip (1,200+ mi) with a friend of mine. The agreement we had come to was that since she'd do most of the driving and it was her car, I'd cover gas. As a passenger, the 150-170$ was a small price to pay for having a chauffeur drive me on a scenic road trip and not have to worry one bit about pre/post trip maintenance.
Unless you somehow exempted them from any responsibility in the way you asked (as other people have given examples above) I would say it is reasonable for them to expect to split it, either between themselves or with you included, depending on how charitable you generally are.
posted by _DB_ at 7:42 AM on April 11, 2013
Unless you somehow exempted them from any responsibility in the way you asked (as other people have given examples above) I would say it is reasonable for them to expect to split it, either between themselves or with you included, depending on how charitable you generally are.
posted by _DB_ at 7:42 AM on April 11, 2013
I would absolutely expect to split gas and tolls for such a trip. Definitely ask them. It is completely reasonable.
posted by SisterHavana at 7:43 AM on April 11, 2013
posted by SisterHavana at 7:43 AM on April 11, 2013
I think it matters how this trip was planned. Was it that you were all going to the area already for some reason, and then you offered to let them stay with you? Or was it, "hey guys, I'd like to invite you to come to [place] and stay at my family's home as a vacation?" Because in the former case, I'd expect to split expenses. But in the latter case, where your friends are essentially your guests, I would plan to chip in as a thank-you to you for inviting me, but I'd be put out if what I had expected to be a free trip, that I wasn't planning on taking except that my friend invited me, suddenly started getting expensive because my friend started asking for money. In fact, if I couldn't afford it because it's an unexpected expense for me, I'd probably bail on the trip.
posted by decathecting at 7:46 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by decathecting at 7:46 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would definitely not expect to split gas and tolls for the trip and would be offended if I received a bill such that I needed to either pay, or publicly back out for financial reasons.
My personal expectations are that the person who proposes the trip (or really, any outing) needs to be prepared to foot the bill for the outing, ESPECIALLY if you didn't state all costs up front. Now, should someone help out and do something nice for you? Yes, but maybe it wouldn't be gas and tolls. I would be mortally offended if someone waited until I was on the road with them to ask me for money.
I might also be likely to show my gratitude by some non-trip related nice thing - a present or a reciprocal trip offer later. It's not a good idea to assume that people will show their gratitude by directly pitching in money. Some people also don't like to exchange money with friends.
You mention that the whole trip is free and it is your idea. I think in that case it would be very much a surprise to start adding costs now, and might make a friend with less money feel embarrassed or leave them out.
posted by corb at 7:50 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
My personal expectations are that the person who proposes the trip (or really, any outing) needs to be prepared to foot the bill for the outing, ESPECIALLY if you didn't state all costs up front. Now, should someone help out and do something nice for you? Yes, but maybe it wouldn't be gas and tolls. I would be mortally offended if someone waited until I was on the road with them to ask me for money.
I might also be likely to show my gratitude by some non-trip related nice thing - a present or a reciprocal trip offer later. It's not a good idea to assume that people will show their gratitude by directly pitching in money. Some people also don't like to exchange money with friends.
You mention that the whole trip is free and it is your idea. I think in that case it would be very much a surprise to start adding costs now, and might make a friend with less money feel embarrassed or leave them out.
posted by corb at 7:50 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Was this a trip you planned for your friends (ie, "Let's go for a weekend away together! Where should we go? Oh, I got it, let's go to X! We can probably stay at my uncle's house for free!") or is this a trip you were taking anyway, and invited them along? In the first situation you are clearly part of a group traveling together, and they should expect costs to be split. In the second, you are sort of in the "Host" role, and they may assume that you are picking up the costs.
If you are the de facto host and your friends aren't boors, they will offer to pay along the way (gas, tolls, food, beer, etc.), and will behave like guests once there (letting you take the lead on suggesting activities, etc), but they will likely be affronted by a direct ask for payment. If they plan to do their own thing once there, however, they see you as just another member of the traveling party, and you are fine to ask.
And yes, I am the Guess-iest Guess who ever Guessed.
On preview, decathecting has it.
posted by apparently at 7:53 AM on April 11, 2013
If you are the de facto host and your friends aren't boors, they will offer to pay along the way (gas, tolls, food, beer, etc.), and will behave like guests once there (letting you take the lead on suggesting activities, etc), but they will likely be affronted by a direct ask for payment. If they plan to do their own thing once there, however, they see you as just another member of the traveling party, and you are fine to ask.
And yes, I am the Guess-iest Guess who ever Guessed.
On preview, decathecting has it.
posted by apparently at 7:53 AM on April 11, 2013
When I was in college I had a roommate who had a car (I did not have a car). One day she mentioned that she was going to the mall and wanted to know if I'd like to tag along. Sure! We went and when we got back to our dorm room she told me how much I owed her for gas. I was stunned. First of all, she was going to the mall anyway and casually asked me if I wanted to tag along. Secondly, had I known that I would have to pony up some money I would not have gone - because I could not afford it.
So, if you do expect your friends to pay anything at all, please be very upfront about it with them BEFOREHAND, so that they can financially prepare or perhaps decide not to go if it's going to be a financial hardship.
posted by Sassyfras at 7:54 AM on April 11, 2013 [11 favorites]
So, if you do expect your friends to pay anything at all, please be very upfront about it with them BEFOREHAND, so that they can financially prepare or perhaps decide not to go if it's going to be a financial hardship.
posted by Sassyfras at 7:54 AM on April 11, 2013 [11 favorites]
My experience with long trips has been that you drive until you need gas and then everyone takes turns paying for a fill-up. This was never something that was explicitly stated beforehand, it just sort of worked out that way. I'd think this applies for a ten-hour trip. Especially so, if your friends are staying free - I'd be thrilled because it would mean the trip was coming at the cost of a tank fillup or two, which isn't much at all.
However! If you want them to pitch in gas money (a request which I think is perfectly reasonable given the length, for the record), you need to tell them this before the trip happens. If you don't, and if the trip happens and you don't ask them for it, you can't go getting upset if they don't offer, or ask about it after the fact. That's just bad form. They may be waiting for you to ask.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:01 AM on April 11, 2013
However! If you want them to pitch in gas money (a request which I think is perfectly reasonable given the length, for the record), you need to tell them this before the trip happens. If you don't, and if the trip happens and you don't ask them for it, you can't go getting upset if they don't offer, or ask about it after the fact. That's just bad form. They may be waiting for you to ask.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:01 AM on April 11, 2013
I think short trips (like going to the mall, in Sassyfras' example), it would be petty and ridiculous to ask for gas.
A ten-hour round trip, with a free holiday thrown in, is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
But yes, tell them beforehand to avoid any embarrassment. Maybe via a group email, to give people a chance to drop out without losing face if need be.
posted by Salamander at 8:03 AM on April 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
A ten-hour round trip, with a free holiday thrown in, is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
But yes, tell them beforehand to avoid any embarrassment. Maybe via a group email, to give people a chance to drop out without losing face if need be.
posted by Salamander at 8:03 AM on April 11, 2013 [9 favorites]
If your friends don't drive or don't have cars, I would give them a ballpark estimate for gas and tolls. Some of my friends who don't have cars have no idea about those things.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:03 AM on April 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:03 AM on April 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
If it were the typical road trip, which to me is something like driving to attend a concert or some other such event, I would say SOP is that costs for gas, food, and lodging are split. However, based upon your question, I think that you have taken on the role of host.
I was raised with pretty strict standards of hospitality that impose duties on both hosts and guests. In this context, I think your duty would be not to ask for any recompense. As guests, your friends duty is to offer recompense such as taking turns paying for gas and so on. If they do not, that is a pretty poor showing on their part.
I am with decathecting and apparently on this one.
posted by Tanizaki at 8:06 AM on April 11, 2013
I was raised with pretty strict standards of hospitality that impose duties on both hosts and guests. In this context, I think your duty would be not to ask for any recompense. As guests, your friends duty is to offer recompense such as taking turns paying for gas and so on. If they do not, that is a pretty poor showing on their part.
I am with decathecting and apparently on this one.
posted by Tanizaki at 8:06 AM on April 11, 2013
I would absolutely expect to pay my share, and I would expect my friends to pay their share.
If you want to bring it up now, even though you think it is late, I would just do a whole "Looking forward to our trip guys! I started working out some math and I think we should be able to get there and back for X$, and that is including the tolls. Sound good to everyone?"
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 8:07 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
If you want to bring it up now, even though you think it is late, I would just do a whole "Looking forward to our trip guys! I started working out some math and I think we should be able to get there and back for X$, and that is including the tolls. Sound good to everyone?"
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 8:07 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
Seconding PuppetMcSockerson. Your friends might not be aware of the expense involved, and if they were to be advised of it, I would think that any friend would want to offset your expenses as much as they could. That said, some of them may be better off financially, and therefore better equipped to chip in. The nice thing about making the conversation open (by email) is that it allows Person A to message you privately saying, "Oh gosh, I can only afford $50, is that alright?" while Person B can message you privately to say "That's fine for me to pay my share. I can pitch in more if you need it - I know Person A might be a bit stretched for cash this summer." You might even want to delineate how much each aspect will cost (Gas - 2 tanks - $150, Tolls - 6 in total - $100). That would enable people to treat it almost like a potluck: "I'll get the first tank of gas," or "I'll handle the first few tolls."
posted by pammeke at 8:21 AM on April 11, 2013
posted by pammeke at 8:21 AM on April 11, 2013
There's still plenty of time between now and the trip, so now that plans are set it's a good time to say "OK guys, I've figured out the approximate gas & carpooling expenses for the trip to be $60 each. You can either pay up front or on the trip, let me know which works for you so I can budget. I'm also going to buy a thank-you gift for the family member who's allowing us to stay there free, you don't have to chip in but if you want to that will be another $12 each. Thanks guys, this is going to be fun!"
posted by headnsouth at 8:27 AM on April 11, 2013
posted by headnsouth at 8:27 AM on April 11, 2013
Jesum crow. There's no statute of limitations on asking for assistance with the costs (which will be significant) and that's whether or not you were the planner. Just word it in a way that makes it clear that "after some thought" you'd like to ask for some assistance on the costs.
If I were one of your friends I would fully expect to be asked to pay my share of transportation costs - frankly, I'd ask you if you wanted some money for gas/tolls.
posted by Currer Belfry at 8:28 AM on April 11, 2013
If I were one of your friends I would fully expect to be asked to pay my share of transportation costs - frankly, I'd ask you if you wanted some money for gas/tolls.
posted by Currer Belfry at 8:28 AM on April 11, 2013
Without pre-arrangement:
As a guest, I'd definitely offer some money for gas. If it were a multi-tank trip I'd probably pay for one of the tanks outright.
As the driver, though, I'd feel like I was being the host, and I wouldn't expect anybody to offer money. I'd take it if offered but I wouldn't expect it. I would notice, though, if somebody were consistently not chipping in.
The upshot of this is that if I were driving a bunch of friends someplace where I knew the gas was going to cost enough money that I might resent it a bit if my friends didn't cough up, I'd raise the issue beforehand in with the other logistics. (e.g., "We'll all meet at John's place. We'll all chip in for gas. I'm happy to drive. &c. &c.")
Keep in mind, too, that sometimes, people just have a different idea of what's worth keeping track of. I've had friends who just plain don't do things like chip in for gas, or who are a bit stingy on splitting the check at a restaurant, and sometimes I find myself resenting them. Then they do something over-the-top nice like paying for the entire day at the water park or whatever, and it's kind of hard to know whether I'd rather they squared up the little things or kept doing the big things.
And in this context, I'm sure that sometimes I eat more than my share of the big bag of chips or whatever, and if a friend called me out on that I'd feel like that was shitty and beneath us both, so I definitely have my own lines beneath which the small stuff is just not worth keeping accounts of. But without discussion I don't know why I should expect other people to draw the line where I happen to draw it, without making some kind of an arrangement about it.
posted by gauche at 8:29 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
As a guest, I'd definitely offer some money for gas. If it were a multi-tank trip I'd probably pay for one of the tanks outright.
As the driver, though, I'd feel like I was being the host, and I wouldn't expect anybody to offer money. I'd take it if offered but I wouldn't expect it. I would notice, though, if somebody were consistently not chipping in.
The upshot of this is that if I were driving a bunch of friends someplace where I knew the gas was going to cost enough money that I might resent it a bit if my friends didn't cough up, I'd raise the issue beforehand in with the other logistics. (e.g., "We'll all meet at John's place. We'll all chip in for gas. I'm happy to drive. &c. &c.")
Keep in mind, too, that sometimes, people just have a different idea of what's worth keeping track of. I've had friends who just plain don't do things like chip in for gas, or who are a bit stingy on splitting the check at a restaurant, and sometimes I find myself resenting them. Then they do something over-the-top nice like paying for the entire day at the water park or whatever, and it's kind of hard to know whether I'd rather they squared up the little things or kept doing the big things.
And in this context, I'm sure that sometimes I eat more than my share of the big bag of chips or whatever, and if a friend called me out on that I'd feel like that was shitty and beneath us both, so I definitely have my own lines beneath which the small stuff is just not worth keeping accounts of. But without discussion I don't know why I should expect other people to draw the line where I happen to draw it, without making some kind of an arrangement about it.
posted by gauche at 8:29 AM on April 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
I would expect to chip in for gas and would expect you to make that clear well in advance (while they can still back out) as part of the pre-trip planning, whether by email or in person or whatever. If you haven't gone yet, it's definitely not too late to clear this up.
Just throw in a sentence like "I'm guessing it'll be about 1-2 tanks at X$ a tank, plus with the Y$ in tolls, it'd be about Z$ each, give or take 20$. Is that cool with everyone?"
Totally reasonable and expected. If you waited until the end of the trip to drop a bill on everyone, it'll be both awkward and possibly resented, even if it is technically fair. Especially if money is tight for anyone, which is probably is, it's a huge deal to have expectations for expenses clear before they commit to the trip.
posted by randomnity at 8:30 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just throw in a sentence like "I'm guessing it'll be about 1-2 tanks at X$ a tank, plus with the Y$ in tolls, it'd be about Z$ each, give or take 20$. Is that cool with everyone?"
Totally reasonable and expected. If you waited until the end of the trip to drop a bill on everyone, it'll be both awkward and possibly resented, even if it is technically fair. Especially if money is tight for anyone, which is probably is, it's a huge deal to have expectations for expenses clear before they commit to the trip.
posted by randomnity at 8:30 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a passenger in your situation I would not expect to be required to pitch in for gas and tolls -- the "whole trip was my idea and I've done all the planning" thing puts this in the 'hey do you want to tag along with me on this thing I'm doing anyway' territory rather than the assumed shared-expenses territory.
However, as a passenger in your situation I would certainly offer to pitch in, and would make an effort to cover my share in some other way (buying meals, etc) if that offer were refused. I would not be offended if asked to pitch in, as long as it was ahead of time and phrased as a request rather than a demand.
But this is pretty easy for me because I have money. If you or any of your friends are at an economic level where gas and tolls represents a significant expense, the whole situation is a lot more fraught (even more so if only some of you are at that level.)
posted by ook at 9:03 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
However, as a passenger in your situation I would certainly offer to pitch in, and would make an effort to cover my share in some other way (buying meals, etc) if that offer were refused. I would not be offended if asked to pitch in, as long as it was ahead of time and phrased as a request rather than a demand.
But this is pretty easy for me because I have money. If you or any of your friends are at an economic level where gas and tolls represents a significant expense, the whole situation is a lot more fraught (even more so if only some of you are at that level.)
posted by ook at 9:03 AM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: How old are you guys? In your late teens/20s, I think it's more likely that people expect to pay for "a share" out of a shared recognition that everyone might have limited means. As you get older, it would be weird to say "here's my 1/4 of the gas and tolls" - but I would expect to pull out my credit card and pay for a fill up, hand you cash for a toll, or more likely take you to a nice dinner, because you might be insulted or refuse to accept if I handed you cash.
I think handing out a "bill" or doing math might be off-putting - it would to me, and I'm the type of person who would happily pay more than my 1/4.
Can you say beforehand something like hey guys, I'd really appreciate it if everyone could chip in for gas and tolls - (if you want to be more specific you can go with something additional like I think it's going to cost around $200, anything you think is fair to chip in would be cool.)
You need to do this beforehand, so everyone knows what to expect and if necessary how to budget or they can come up with an excuse to bail if they can't afford it.
posted by mrs. taters at 9:16 AM on April 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think handing out a "bill" or doing math might be off-putting - it would to me, and I'm the type of person who would happily pay more than my 1/4.
Can you say beforehand something like hey guys, I'd really appreciate it if everyone could chip in for gas and tolls - (if you want to be more specific you can go with something additional like I think it's going to cost around $200, anything you think is fair to chip in would be cool.)
You need to do this beforehand, so everyone knows what to expect and if necessary how to budget or they can come up with an excuse to bail if they can't afford it.
posted by mrs. taters at 9:16 AM on April 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
If I were riding with you, I would contribute toward gas if you asked me to do so. Different strokes for different folks. I don't think you'd lose friends over such a thing.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:33 AM on April 11, 2013
posted by oceanjesse at 9:33 AM on April 11, 2013
I can't believe some people wouldn't chip in. It's one thing if it's a short trip, but a five hour drive? Pitching in for gas and tolls is the least I'd do.
Transportation isn't free.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:35 AM on April 11, 2013 [5 favorites]
Transportation isn't free.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:35 AM on April 11, 2013 [5 favorites]
Situations like this, where you haven't stated ahead of time whether it is shared expenses or not, you find out what kind of people your travel companions are.
Now from my POV if you didn't say before the trip started that it was shared expenses, you should not be asking during or after the trip. Once you offered and they accepted, it's fair to assume that the terms have already been laid out. Changing the terms later is crass. So you should be prepared to suck up the expense and absolutely not hold it against your friends if they don't offer. Remember: terms have already been negotiated and agreed to. Bust a deal, face the wheel.
If your riders are well mannered, thoughtful people of reasonable means, they will absolutely volunteer to chip in during the trip. And you can absolutely accept it, and everything is cool.
But if your riders are ill-mannered, suffering from selfish entitlement, or perhaps just broke (which isn't a personal fault), then they may not offer. In which case, again, you suck it up with no hard feelings.
Consider this, then, two lessons:
1) make sure you ask ahead of time for shared expenses if that's what you want, and
2) what kind of people are they, really?
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:14 AM on April 11, 2013
Now from my POV if you didn't say before the trip started that it was shared expenses, you should not be asking during or after the trip. Once you offered and they accepted, it's fair to assume that the terms have already been laid out. Changing the terms later is crass. So you should be prepared to suck up the expense and absolutely not hold it against your friends if they don't offer. Remember: terms have already been negotiated and agreed to. Bust a deal, face the wheel.
If your riders are well mannered, thoughtful people of reasonable means, they will absolutely volunteer to chip in during the trip. And you can absolutely accept it, and everything is cool.
But if your riders are ill-mannered, suffering from selfish entitlement, or perhaps just broke (which isn't a personal fault), then they may not offer. In which case, again, you suck it up with no hard feelings.
Consider this, then, two lessons:
1) make sure you ask ahead of time for shared expenses if that's what you want, and
2) what kind of people are they, really?
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:14 AM on April 11, 2013
Concurred with what everyone has said--
1. I would be prepared and expect to buy a tank and buy you some beer. Whether it was a trip you were taking anyway, or not.
2. But since you worded it kind of vaguely, you should probably ask in more explicit terms sooner rather than later. And ask, not demand.
But to add to the conversation-- I think this might be easier done in person than any other way. Because then you get a sense of if your friends were really shocked, or if they were like, "yeah of course." It's possible that not all the potential passengers are expecting the same. Maybe casually ask over a beer.
posted by atetrachordofthree at 10:22 AM on April 11, 2013
1. I would be prepared and expect to buy a tank and buy you some beer. Whether it was a trip you were taking anyway, or not.
2. But since you worded it kind of vaguely, you should probably ask in more explicit terms sooner rather than later. And ask, not demand.
But to add to the conversation-- I think this might be easier done in person than any other way. Because then you get a sense of if your friends were really shocked, or if they were like, "yeah of course." It's possible that not all the potential passengers are expecting the same. Maybe casually ask over a beer.
posted by atetrachordofthree at 10:22 AM on April 11, 2013
"I should have mentioned this earlier, but [I'd really appreciate it][I only budgeted for this assuming] you can all pitch in to help cover costs. I estimate that gas and tolls will cost X. Plan on bringing some extra cash for food and beer too..."
posted by Good Brain at 11:08 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Good Brain at 11:08 AM on April 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
In my group of friends, when you pulled over for the first fill-up, we would be jumping over each other to pay for the tank.
I think most people would expect to chip in, but it might be petty to ask for $26.19 from each person.
If you end up having to pay for gas and tolls by yourself, will it be a hardship?
If not, I'd just see how it goes and let your friends rise to the occasion.
If it would be a problem, then I'd mention something like "Would you please remember to bring some cash in case we hit tolls or need gas?"
Also, assume you will have some out of pocket gas expenses here unless you show up to get them with an empty tank (which I think would be passive aggressive). You are going to have to run through the end of your existing tank anyway. You might recoup this if your friends pay for gas that has not run all the way to empty on the way back.
posted by rmless at 12:46 PM on April 11, 2013
I think most people would expect to chip in, but it might be petty to ask for $26.19 from each person.
If you end up having to pay for gas and tolls by yourself, will it be a hardship?
If not, I'd just see how it goes and let your friends rise to the occasion.
If it would be a problem, then I'd mention something like "Would you please remember to bring some cash in case we hit tolls or need gas?"
Also, assume you will have some out of pocket gas expenses here unless you show up to get them with an empty tank (which I think would be passive aggressive). You are going to have to run through the end of your existing tank anyway. You might recoup this if your friends pay for gas that has not run all the way to empty on the way back.
posted by rmless at 12:46 PM on April 11, 2013
It's not till this summer? Way overthinking this. C'mon, just bring it up at the next opportunity. "Say, I wasn't clear at the time, but you're going to have to chip in on some of the travel costs. Now that I've estimated them here's what I expect your share to be." If this had been something you'd been planning for months and were leaving even tomorrow, well, better to make things clear now than have a set-to at some remote filling station.
posted by dhartung at 1:19 PM on April 11, 2013
posted by dhartung at 1:19 PM on April 11, 2013
When I have done this as a bunch of poor students, we added up all the expenses and divided evenly so we all paid our share.
When I have done this as a grown up with a real job with a bunch of other grown ups with real jobs, each person chipped in at some random point, e.g. when a toll was due, one of the passengers would hand over some money, or when we stopped for fuel, a random passenger would say "I'll get it", and we made damn sure that the driver/car-owner didn't end up paying anything. But the expenses were not equally divided - some people paid $50 or so for fuel, while others paid $10 for tolls.
In each case, the passengers instigated the chipping in - the driver didn't ask for the money. I don't know what would have happened if the driver had asked. I think in the case of the poor students, it would have been fine, but in the second case it would have been a bit of a faux pas.
Also, more recently I've noticed that even on long trips, there's a tendency for the driver to wave away expense money. I think this is because my social circle nowadays is mainly people who are a little older than me and therefore earning slightly more.
posted by lollusc at 5:31 PM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I have done this as a grown up with a real job with a bunch of other grown ups with real jobs, each person chipped in at some random point, e.g. when a toll was due, one of the passengers would hand over some money, or when we stopped for fuel, a random passenger would say "I'll get it", and we made damn sure that the driver/car-owner didn't end up paying anything. But the expenses were not equally divided - some people paid $50 or so for fuel, while others paid $10 for tolls.
In each case, the passengers instigated the chipping in - the driver didn't ask for the money. I don't know what would have happened if the driver had asked. I think in the case of the poor students, it would have been fine, but in the second case it would have been a bit of a faux pas.
Also, more recently I've noticed that even on long trips, there's a tendency for the driver to wave away expense money. I think this is because my social circle nowadays is mainly people who are a little older than me and therefore earning slightly more.
posted by lollusc at 5:31 PM on April 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
You absolutely need to make this crystal clear up front, no matter how awkward it is now. You never know how much money your friends are working with, even if they seem to be doing okay, 10 hours worth of fuel is a lot of money.
I remember this time in college when I was so broke my food budget for the week was around $20 some weeks. If my friends were going out to a bar on a Friday night I would get whatever cheap beer was on tap for a couple dollars. I remember this one time where I was about to order and this guy I knew said to me, "Oh, put your money away, I'll get this round!" I thought he was just being nice. Next thing I knew he was saying, "Okay, time for the next round. Your turn to buy!" He was drinking $9 cocktails. I think he was honestly just rich and clueless. But just... keep that in mind when you read people saying of course they would expect to split, plus pay for your share, and the depreciation of your car, and all your food and drinks at the lodging, and a spa day for your cat, and &&. Sometimes, people working with a lot of money have different expectations than people who aren't working with much.
posted by cairdeas at 5:51 PM on April 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
I remember this time in college when I was so broke my food budget for the week was around $20 some weeks. If my friends were going out to a bar on a Friday night I would get whatever cheap beer was on tap for a couple dollars. I remember this one time where I was about to order and this guy I knew said to me, "Oh, put your money away, I'll get this round!" I thought he was just being nice. Next thing I knew he was saying, "Okay, time for the next round. Your turn to buy!" He was drinking $9 cocktails. I think he was honestly just rich and clueless. But just... keep that in mind when you read people saying of course they would expect to split, plus pay for your share, and the depreciation of your car, and all your food and drinks at the lodging, and a spa day for your cat, and &&. Sometimes, people working with a lot of money have different expectations than people who aren't working with much.
posted by cairdeas at 5:51 PM on April 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
> Just throw in a sentence like "I'm guessing it'll be about 1-2 tanks at X$ a tank, plus with the Y$ in tolls, it'd be about Z$ each, give or take 20$. Is that cool with everyone?"
This is pretty much exactly How It Is Done in my experience.
posted by desuetude at 8:52 PM on April 11, 2013
This is pretty much exactly How It Is Done in my experience.
posted by desuetude at 8:52 PM on April 11, 2013
Response by poster: These answers are very helpful.
I think the fair thing to do seems to be to give everyone a heads up about the expected gas + toll cost for the trip soon, then ask them to chip however they feel comfortable. It wouldn't totally break me if I had to pay the whole thing (not that I have a lot of money -- I definitely DO NOT) but I really don't think that's going to happen.
Thanks again for your help!
posted by smirkyfodder at 4:26 AM on April 12, 2013
I think the fair thing to do seems to be to give everyone a heads up about the expected gas + toll cost for the trip soon, then ask them to chip however they feel comfortable. It wouldn't totally break me if I had to pay the whole thing (not that I have a lot of money -- I definitely DO NOT) but I really don't think that's going to happen.
Thanks again for your help!
posted by smirkyfodder at 4:26 AM on April 12, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:19 AM on April 11, 2013 [22 favorites]